Lore quesiton: Khaine in relation to the other gods...

[scyld]

So what is the deal with Khaine, Mor, etc.? Are these gods also part of the Warp along with the Chaos Gods, or are they somehow separate? Also, the High Elves seem to recognize Khaine as well, but in a more complex and less straightforward manner? Do they respect him as a side of their own nature, which they must keep in check? I swear that my White Lion actually sometimes scream "Khaaine!" sometimes when rushing into battle...

So in conclusion, this question seems to be less about the DE and more about the gods and their relationship to the HE, but whatever :/

[Circumference]

High elves worship Khaine in the aspect of the god of war. Dark elves worship him in the aspect of the god of murder. High elves are also forbidden to pray to Khaine other than in battle.



All Gods in War are manifestations of belief in the Realm of Chaos. So just like how lust and rage generate Slaneesh and Khorn, hope ect generate other gods.

[scratchysealtttv]

I've always though this little comparison, even though I've never read a WH book other than the table top army sections.

Khaine is kind of like "The force." He is very powerful, and grants its followers many strengths and much wisdom. The dark elves however use him for his power, and use that power for "evil" and to forward their own purpose (they then also kill in the name of khaine). The high elves however sort of use the power only when they need to (in some battles perhaps) but only sparingly.

I know its a really crude stretch, but it seems "relatively" true.

[Nomina]

Khaine is kind of like "The force."

Please... stop... my eyes... the words, they burn my eyes... :lol:

Sorry, I have nothing of substance to add.

[kir]

do note that all elvish gods work on a participation basis, so the more people worshipping them the more potent they get.

[Revoran]

http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/Gods

http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/Khaela_Mensha_Khaine

All Gods are created by the thoughts and emotions of beings in the real world. This is why the Chaos Gods are the most powerful, as they represent the most basic emotions that everyone experiences - Anger (Khorne) Despair (Nurgle) Pleasure (Slaanesh) Hope (Tzeentch). This also explains why the gods hate each other - tzeetch is hope and hates nurgle who is hopelessness, khorne is anger (outward emotion) and slaanesh is pleasure (inward selfish emotion).

Many people see hope as a positive thing, but in reality it can be either good or bad. Hope is what drives ambition, and hence scheming, sorcery and manipulation. Similarly, anger can be used to motivate someone to do good, but it still makes Khorne stronger. This is why there can never be a victory over Chaos.

The High Elves have learnt to mostly control their emotions and practice balance and self control. They worship Khaine only on the battlefeild, whereas the Dark Elves worship Khaine in all his aspects, war, murder, torture, bringer of pain - etc. The selfish and backstabbing side of the Dark Elves also makes them prone to corruption by Chaos - usually Slaanesh or occassionally Tzeentch.

Morr is just the human god of death, he has nothing to do with Chaos or the undead, as both those corrupt what he's trying to do (help people into the afterlife).

[Velen]

The High Elves have learnt to mostly control their emotions and practice balance and self control. They worship Khaine only on the battlefeild, whereas the Dark Elves worship Khaine in all his aspects, war, murder, torture, bringer of pain - etc. The selfish and backstabbing side of the Dark Elves also makes them prone to corruption by Chaos - usually Slaanesh or occassionally Tzeentch.

Thinking more on Slaanesh....

Hmmm you know I bet thats why the Dark Elves will win in the end.

While the High Elves are busy controlling and repressing various desires the Dark Elves are busy...well.. not doing that and making more Dark Elves.

Even if they age slowly they will win over time due to more population.

:twisted:

[Scuzzgutz]

Bear in mind that orcs are fungus-like and don't interact with chaos in the way that the other races do. This means there's a decent possibility that Gork and Mork don't technically exist at all, which is part of what makes them so cool: Their very existence is questionable, yet they'll go so far as to stamp on opposing armies, which is more can be said of the "real" gods.

Sigmar of course was mortal once, so he's not "just" a Chaos entity. There's also a big divide between The Ruinous Powers and other gods, they may all be related to the Chaos Realm but they're not particularly "alike".

You also have the Old Ones, who are worshipped by the lizardmen and possess(ed) godlike power but are not "gods" in the same way that Sigmar and co are gods. They're missing. The lizardmen have probably created Sotek in the traditional realm-of-chaos-reflecting-thought-and-desire sort of way, however, and he's becoming increasingly prominent.

[Nathar]

Thinking more on Slaanesh....

Hmmm you know I bet thats why the Dark Elves will win in the end.

While the High Elves are busy controlling and repressing various desires the Dark Elves are busy...well.. not doing that and making more Dark Elves.

Even if they age slowly they will win over time due to more population.

:twisted:

Currently there is about 5 times more High elves than their darker kin. And while we may be busy creating more Dark Elves, we're more busy killing each other. If we ever manage to "win in the end" it won't be because there are more of us. It'll be because 100% of us are warriors while they have poets, politics, tradesmen and so on.

[kir]

high elves are also under atack by more things. as chaos attacks both delfs and helfs, helfs get attacked not only by delfs, but by various human raiders, and whatever they come across in the old whorld when they send their armies there to help the empire. Also dwarves will fight helfs gladly with little inclination.

[Arsenic]

I find it strange that "Khaine = Khorne" hasn't been mentioned, which is what I believe.

[Kaid]

I find it strange that "Khaine = Khorne" hasn't been mentioned, which is what I believe.

Shhhh! Don't stir the Khaine Worshipers!

People have died that way.

[Velen]

Currently there is about 5 times more High elves than their darker kin. And while we may be busy creating more Dark Elves, we're more busy killing each other. If we ever manage to "win in the end" it won't be because there are more of us. It'll be because 100% of us are warriors while they have poets, politics, tradesmen and so on.

Ahhh I see now.

Forgive my lack of lore knowledge...I have painted our armor for years but have not read all of the tomes of our people.

[Nathar]

I find it strange that "Khaine = Khorne" hasn't been mentioned, which is what I believe.

The reason it's not been mentioned is probably that most people who believe it are chaos players and fans, while mostly dark elf players and fans read this part of the forum. Take me, I don't believe it.

Ahhh I see now.

Forgive my lack of lore knowledge...I have painted our armor for years but have not read all of the tomes of our people.

And rightly so, I should go hang myself for being more of a scholar than a warrior ;)

[Seanc]

Shhhh! Don't stir the Khaine Worshipers!

People have died that way.


have and will. need.... more... SKULLLLLLLLS

[holmcross01]

I'm surprised nobody has brought up the appearence of Khorne's symbol on dark elf models, like Witch Elves to be specific. Granted, Khorne is not big on murder(which khaine obviously is), just wanton slaughter on the battlefield.

Iirc Khornite followers spurn the slaughter of unarmed civilians.

But despite that, unless elves interact with the warp in a much different way, I find it hard to believe they would create their own seperate entity from Khorne.

[Nathar]

I'm surprised nobody has brought up the appearence of Khorne's symbol on dark elf models, like Witch Elves to be specific. Granted, Khorne is not big on murder(which khaine obviously is), just wanton slaughter on the battlefield.

Iirc Khornite followers spurn the slaughter of unarmed civilians.

But despite that, unless elves interact with the warp in a much different way, I find it hard to believe they would create their own seperate entity from Khorne.

Granted I haven't seen this game in detail (don't play yet), granted I don't have the TT models because safe-less infantry is dangerous. Both those things said though, I haven't seen this mark of Khorne since 5th edition when the Khorne=Khaine idea was still somewhat in effect. Now they're more seperate entities in the lore.

[holmcross01]

I'm pretty sure that the most recent TT WE models have a icon of khorne. I'm On my phone right now, else I'd check.

Though nothing is as explosive as the Deciver = Laughing God and Horus = the body on the holy throne of Terra from 40K. Those were some fun arguements :)

[Arsenic]

Been to the Khorne section of the Inevitable City? Witch elves everywhere. Further indication that Khorne = Khaine, I think. Or they may be converts :p

And @ Holmcross01. Khorne doesn't care from where the blood flows, only that it flows.

[holmcross01]

Iirc, Khornite adherents have a sense of martial honor and generally don't like slaughting hapless enemies. I know Lucius the Eternal has that special rule in 40k, but I remember reading that its a quality most khornite followers share.

And nope, the new Witch Elves don't have any Khornite iconography

[Arsenic]

Iirc, Khornite adherents have a sense of martial honor and generally don't like slaughting hapless enemies.


Sorry, but thats the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. They just go inn there and kill ANYTHING. Thats whats Khorne is about. Understand that slaughtering your own tribe in a raging bloodlust would make Khorne like you. Innocents bleed just as good as other warriors.

[holmcross01]

Sorry, but thats the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. They just go inn there and kill ANYTHING. Thats whats Khorne is about. Understand that slaughtering your own tribe in a raging bloodlust would make Khorne like you. Innocents bleed just as good as other warriors.

"Khorne's followers are without exception warriors. His followers build no temples but rather worship him on the battlefield. To devote time to building temples rather than fighting would more likely incur Khorne's wrath than please him. Khorne is said to have inherited a martial nobility and honour, and considers the weak and helpless to be unworthy of his wrath."

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Khorne

[Da Bro]

@ holmcross01: Since when did Michael Moore become a follower of Khorne?

[Vajahla]

Sorry, but thats the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. They just go inn there and kill ANYTHING. Thats whats Khorne is about. Understand that slaughtering your own tribe in a raging bloodlust would make Khorne like you. Innocents bleed just as good as other warriors.

Thats how Khaine like it... everyones blood is good for the god of murder :twisted:

[Arsenic]

"Khorne's followers are without exception warriors. His followers build no temples but rather worship him on the battlefield. To devote time to building temples rather than fighting would more likely incur Khorne's wrath than please him. Khorne is said to have inherited a martial nobility and honour, and considers the weak and helpless to be unworthy of his wrath."

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Khorne

I just lost alot of respect for Khorne :S

Thanks for showing me that. Never read it anywhere before, and I've read ALOT.

[black wolf]

Yes, but remember that 40k is not strictly the WH Fantasy universe. There has never been any confirmation but only rumors that the two scenarios are even in the same universe (although it would be possible). It may be a different Khorne in Fantasy, an aspect, or the worship may just be different. For a Pyramid of Skulls, Khornites usually take any skulls from anyone for the mound, and then crown it with the skulls of the strongest warriors. They will of course seek to battle the strongest enemies they can find, for the challenge or a glorious death, but anyone in the vicinity is fair game. Khorne demands skulls and blood, so more villagers will at least provide enough of the latter, and their armies the best of the former.

[Silki]

I just lost alot of respect for Khorne :S

Thanks for showing me that. Never read it anywhere before, and I've read ALOT.

The chaos powers are not evil. They are chaotic, contradicting beeings. It is just we humans who tend to perceive extreems and totality that way. That whats makes them intresting as antagonists instead of some typical b-movie evil villain IMO.

[Vereor]

im glad there was a khaine=khorne argument sumwhere, as i had that suspicion last night. I mean, i was thinking, Khones colors are red, black, and brass, then i was reading the malus darkblade books and i realized that khaine is very much into the brass himself, and of course red, not too sure about black, dont want to say yes, but it seems dark elves were a good bit of black. anyway, just glad that for thinking that im not entirely blasphemous.

[Nathar]

Been to the Khorne section of the Inevitable City? Witch elves everywhere. Further indication that Khorne = Khaine, I think. Or they may be converts :p

I feared the day this would come. It had to, but I feared it. The day peopel would use WAR material to back up lore arguments. The outside of WAR lore is not affected by WAR lore.

"Khorne's followers are without exception warriors. His followers build no temples but rather worship him on the battlefield. To devote time to building temples rather than fighting would more likely incur Khorne's wrath than please him. Khorne is said to have inherited a martial nobility and honour, and considers the weak and helpless to be unworthy of his wrath."

I always approached the discussion from dark elf side, but this is a good reason why Khorne wouldn't be a Khaine-worshipper target. Dark elves build TONS of temples, shrines and stuff like it in Khaine's honour.
And I would say that, unless you argue the eternal youth is related to divine magic (related to Khaine) exists (which is undocumented), there is a divine power that blesses Khaine worshippers, and I don't see that being Khorne.

2 sentences.

Khorne's too good to be Khaine.
Khaine's too good to be Khorne.

EDIT: Also don't go too far with the fantasy lore = 40k lore. They aren't directly linked and you can't argue stuff in one with reason from the other.

[Boulvae]

Kaela Mensha Not Khorne Khaine

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45615&highlight=Kaela+Mensha+[B]Not+Khorne[%2FB]+Khaine

Also, WAR is a seperate timeline of Warhammer so it is viable for this game.

[holmcross01]

The statement that the 40K gods are not in the same timeline does not mean that they don't share the same characteristics. The chaos gods in both fantasy and 40K are indentical in their portfolios, even if its not the same timeline.

If you disagree please show me a list of differences that can compete with their similarities, but I don't think its out there.

And yeah, the Khorne = Khaine idea is fun to toss around, but its almost certianly false. I think the fundamental difference is that Khorne values slaughter as an manifestation of rage and strength, and the skulls are a trophy of those things. A village of peasents is not going to make a worthy trophy for his throne. That being said, I doubt a khornite follower wouldn't cut down anyone in his path in a heartbeat, but there would most likely be contempt and disdain for it, simply because it was an unworthy sacrifice to the big guy.

Khaine (the aspect which the DEs worship) shares more in common with Nurgle in the sense that destruction/murder is valued for its own sake. Followers of Nurgle take satisfaction in the destruction of the weak and defenseless.

[holmcross01]

I guess the real question how exactly the consensus-reality of warhammer works. Do warp entites gain power everytime a mortal performs an act that is in the entity's portfolio, or only when its done in the name of that god? Both ideas have some interesting points to be made in defense of them.

Personally, I think that a warp-entity gains power from the mortal acts of whatever is in their respective portfolios, which is what makes their powers so seductive. For example, a mortal may persue perfection for the glory of their emperor/culture, but when it starts to dip into excess, they start to slowly feed Slaanesh. Many followers of the ruinous powers were following one of the chaos gods before they were even aware of it.

The problem with that is Khaine's seperation from Khorne. There are definatly things that they share in their portfolios - bloodlust being the most obvious. Yet the two are the same, so the acts of bloodlust are either feeding one or both. I don't think it feeds them both, because that would make little sense (things represented in the warp seem to converge and create a single entity).

Totally theorizing right now, but a possibility is that elves interact in a way differently then other races do, and in such, have their own warp entities to reflect that. But you run into a problem when you consider that they can still be tempted and fall prey to the big 4 (not even bringing in the issue of Slaanesh's birth in the 40K universe). If that theory was true, they would be unable to become followers of the chaos gods because they would actually fuel an elvish entity with the same portfolio of the chaos god.

So I really don't know :)

[Nathar]

So I really don't know :)

Me neither. My belief is that it is not the act that is the most important but the motivation. People worshipping Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, Khaine, Loec, Isha, Ulric or any otehr diety will not all feed Khorne because he likes killing. Khorne was born from Anger and hate to my knowledge, not death or killing. Nurgle was born from the desire to survive even if it means embracing disease or death-like states (decay of crazy levels).

I believe the desire is what it important. It's rather interesting to think about, because if you remove the names Khorne and Nurgle you're left with something somewhat hippie or jedi like. "Don't be angry. Anger only feeds more anger." Anger only feeds Khorne, don't be angry. Lets all be fwiends!

And about the 40k /= fantasy it's hard to argue, but I would mention first that I believe there are no interactions between gods and I'm even more certain that there are no interactions between gods of different factions (no dwarf god has ever fought or befriended an elven god). In 40k Slaanesh killed of all of the elven gods (apart from Khaine but I don't know the details). I agree there are many similarities but they are not the same.

[Pikachu]

Thinking more on Slaanesh....

Hmmm you know I bet thats why the Dark Elves will win in the end.

While the High Elves are busy controlling and repressing various desires the Dark Elves are busy...well.. not doing that and making more Dark Elves.

Even if they age slowly they will win over time due to more population.

:twisted:

There can never be a victory for the dark elves because theyre motivated completely by bloodshed and would eventually drive themselves to extinction whether it be by moving on to fight other armies or by turning on each other (which is the most likely eventuality).

[Drakolus]

I've always gotten the feeling that the Chaos gods have "aspects" so to speak.

Nurgle is the god of despair, disease and corruption but at the same time he's Papa Nurgle, he gives strength in adversity and the determination to carry on no matter what.

Khorne is the god of blood, death, carnage, murder etc (and I think Khaine in the eyes of the Dark Elfs may be an aspect of him to be honest) but he is also the god of Honorable combat, martial prowess and sucess in battle. From what I remember he HATES cheap shots and sorcery (because he see's it as cheesy, you should win through superior skill and strength.)

Slaanesh is the god of depravity, pleasure, selfishness and rumpity bumpty. But he/she is also the god of beauty, passion, creativity to some extent and rumpity bumpity (procreation is needful)

Tzeench is the god of change in all forms. But also the god of plots, planning, strategy, sorcery and change in good ways to. (I know the least about the changer of ways to be honest).

So I think many of the gods may be aspects of the Chaos gods in some ways.

Sigmar, Morr, Shalya, Ranald, Ulric, the Dwarfen Pantheon and most of the Elf Pantheon are seperate though to my knowledge.

[Periodic]

Really, I think it should be recognized that the original GW authors that had a clue intended for there to be a ton of ambiguity about Khaine and Khorne, to the point of putting Khorne symbols on models, giving them amazingly similar names

In Hebrew, Baruch is an ancient name meaning "the blessed".

In North Africa, it's Barack. In English, it's Benedict. In French, it's Benoit. In Italian, Benedetto. I really think the Warhammer creators were smart enough to realize that having an elven god of war and blood named Khaine and having a human god of war and blood named Khorne that people would connect the dots.

You can say it's not "real" (whatever that means for a fictional game world), but it's obviously intentional.

In terms of canon, I think the best explanation is that Deities in Warhammer can have aspects or avatars when worshipped in a different cultural context. This has precedent in many world religions, often because people will appropriate their neighbour's gods and give them a different spin on it. Kali is the destroyer of the Hindu pantheon, but she is also worshipped as Bhavatarina, the mother of the universe. The Greek Gods had aspects/epithets they were called under: when Athena was called to defend, she was known as Pallas Athena (IIRC).

In this way Khaine is an aspect of Khorne as they both draw from the same well of emotion and faith. Khorne represents the human worship of violence, while Khaine represents the elven way of violence. The High Elves worship Khaine as violence restrained by wisdom, the Humans worship Khorne as violence constrained by military order, and the Dark Elves worship Khaine as violence constrained by mere pragmatism.

Even in Warhammer there's precedent for it, since it's explicitly mentioned that cults sometimes worship the chaos gods under the "wrong" names.

[Nathar]

In this way Khaine is an aspect of Khorne as they both draw from the same well of emotion and faith. Khorne represents the human worship of violence, while Khaine represents the elven way of violence. The High Elves worship Khaine as violence restrained by wisdom, the Humans worship Khorne as violence constrained by military order, and the Dark Elves worship Khaine as violence constrained by mere pragmatism.

Even in Warhammer there's precedent for it, since it's explicitly mentioned that cults sometimes worship the chaos gods under the "wrong" names.

Note: I don't mean to use what I'm saying to argument my meaning because I see them as completely seperate. I just like arguing with sensible people, and you seem like such a one.

By your logic, one society or culture takes the gods of other civilizations and worship in slightly different ways as slightly different gods under slightly different names. This fits the hole Khaine is Khorne situation except.... -drumroll... wouldn't that mean Khorne is an aspect of Khaine rather than the other way around? The elven civilization and worship began long before humans gave their god of anger a name (If he feeds on anger he probably existed long before they named the fella).

[Silki]

I quote from the book Realm of Chaos: Slaves of Darkness
The Chaos Powers take different forms for their dealings with different races, so that it is impossible to say whether the apparent multitude of Powers are actually distinct entities, or whether they are but aspects of the same being.
...
Others say that all the apparently diverse gods of Chaos are no more than a different aspect and manifestations of one being: The Great Unnameable One, The Lord of Chaos and numberless other titles.

According to this, it is a very big possibility that Khaine is an aspect of Khorne. Even if it is impossible to say for sure, of course.
Then it goes on about those wise men who dare to theorise and debate about Chaos succeed only in attracting the unwholesome attention of the creatures of Chaos. So I stop here to save myself from damnation.

There is a part in the other Realm of Chaos book, The Lost and the Damned about the creation of gods and how they gain their power. Basically every living being has a so called Shadow-self in the chaos realm, some call it the soul. Now these shadow-selves are defined by the most dominant traits of their martial body and they flow together with other shadow-selves that is mutually attracted by their similar traits, and thus forming a entity or vortex of energy. Some of these entities grow so large that they form a consciousness and will. These are the 4 great Powers. Other Lesser powers are less stable but can sometimes achieve temporary consciousness.

So this means that one does not need to devote oneself to a specific power to make it stronger. A Shadow-self of a mighty Warrior can flow together with Khorne whether he knows it or not.
Nor do you need to make a specific action. For example simply strong faith in a being can spawn a power... like Sigmar.

Note: I don't mean to use what I'm saying to argument my meaning because I see them as completely seperate. I just like arguing with sensible people, and you seem like such a one.

By your logic, one society or culture takes the gods of other civilizations and worship in slightly different ways as slightly different gods under slightly different names. This fits the hole Khaine is Khorne situation except.... -drumroll... wouldn't that mean Khorne is an aspect of Khaine rather than the other way around? The elven civilization and worship began long before humans gave their god of anger a name (If he feeds on anger he probably existed long before they named the fella).

Perhaps this was the case but then the roles would have reversed and Khorne would become the dominant persona, as Humans (a race being partly spawned by chaos) are much more numerous and easier/more influenced by the realm of chaos.

[toadster]

Since you guys know so much about WH lore, what is this 'Asuryen!' my WL keeps shouting when she gets a pounding?

[Arsenic]

The chaos powers are not evil. They are chaotic, contradicting beeings. It is just we humans who tend to perceive extreems and totality that way. That whats makes them intresting as antagonists instead of some typical b-movie evil villain IMO.

That is what I said.

But I always saw Khorne as a mindless animal, intent purely on killing. Mindlessness is not evil.

[Silki]

Hmm, well I guess that is true... labeling things evil suddenly got quite tricky.
One could argue that a being that only exists for killing with no purpose or justification, can't be anything else than a evil creature. At least Khorne has good intentions, and believes what he does is for the betterment of all. Even if its completely f-ed up and self-destructive. Then again some can argue that Hitler was not evil just misunderstood, so now we reached Godwin's law and are quite off-topic so we might just aswell call them all evil and be done with it. :P

But one thing is for certain though, there isn't much that is more one-dimensional and less chaotic than a mindless killing machine. ;)

[Menancewhite]

The present Khaine is just a result of combination between an old High Elf who swore to protect the High Elves and Khaine, the High Elves diety of war.


Protect High Elves + War = Wage war with everything that's not High Elf. Whoops I mean Dark Elf.

WAR is supposed to take place on an alternative universe. Dark elves would never join with chaos and witch elves would never wear underwear in real Warhammer. Malekiths mom has short white hair on WAR, she's also wearing a few hundred times the clothing she she wears in real Warhamer.

[holmcross01]

Not to mention that if a random DE/any other player walked up to Malakith and started chatting it up with him, that mistake would be very short-lived.

Same for any of the destruction leaders.

Or how about the crushing abundence of elite and hero units running around. 10 bright wizards to each militiamen.

So yeah, the "alternate universe" clause is nessessary so WAR dosn't all over the fluff og WHB.

[ParthianShot]

Since you guys know so much about WH lore, what is this 'Asuryen!'

Asuryen is the High Elf ruling god - think of Zeus or Jupiter from the Greek and Roman pantheons respectively.

[Kilani]

@velen as to who is going to outlive who. the dark elves have the higher population down to the sheer fact 90%+ high elves are sterile. Morathi not only tore chunks out of ulthwan when they left but cursed them so they were unable to breed well anymore its very very rare for high elves to have children anymore and there is very little they can do about it as the are more worried about the island sinking into the ocean as the winds of magic begin to fail.

i must say the knorne-khaine discussions has been very interesting ive loved reading it.


my view of it has always been khaine and knorne are two different entities altogether. khorne was birthed through intense emotions like the other major chaos gods while khaine is an avatar to the dark elf people whether he used to be mortal at one point is unclear however.

keep the discussion up makes for great reading. :)

[Shubop]

Tzeench is the god of change in all forms. But also the god of plots, planning, strategy, sorcery and change in good ways to. (I know the least about the changer of ways to be honest).

Just to add that Tzeencth is also the god of Hope. Each Chaos god has a positive side to him.

[Feth]

Does the lore play much of a role in this game? I mean it does because it is everywhere but does it matter knowing about it. Does it mean you will know more and be able to find secret things easier?

[offline]

A lot in the 40k and FB worlds do seem to merge, and I do remember playing older versions of fantasy battles, chaos used to be able to field chaos space marines... in later editions they separated two universes. But under the old fluff the planet where fantasy battles takes place is a small planet in the Eye of Terror.

About orks:
They dont have projections in the warp since they are not really living creatures, Waaagh! is more of a psychic power than a manipulation of the warp energies. There is some fluff directing that C'tan gods actually perform things on behalf of orcs while leading them to do their own bidding disguised as Gork and Mork.

Khaine/Khorne/Slaanesh
I do believe in the fluff that Slaanesh was born because of the eldar (high elves) were over indulging in their lives and ceised being a productive race. After the eye of terror erupted (birthplace of Slaanesh) eldar (elves) split into dark and high. Dark eldar continued their old lifestyles and embrace their diety Khaine as every aspect of their society.
Khorne and Khaine are both gods yet khorne is a god of sheer bloodshed, while khaine is a sort of a mix of slaanesh and khorne... im not too sure here.

other interesting speculation(a bit off topic):
machine god of mars... C'tan void dragon?

[Shubop]

About orks:
They dont have projections in the warp since they are not really living creatures, Waaagh! is more of a psychic power than a manipulation of the warp energies. There is some fluff directing that C'tan gods actually perform things on behalf of orcs while leading them to do their own bidding disguised as Gork and Mork.

Actually, in Warhammer 40,000 Orks have one of the biggest (if not the biggest) presence in the warp. Also in newer fluff Gork and Mork have been confirmed to be true and real warp gods.

Also the Fall of the Eldar is not valid in Warhammer Fantasy. As said they are completely different universes, thus events in 40,000 do not affect Fantasy. The Elves split for different reasons in Fantasy than the Eldar split in 40,000.

[Sonofathel]

In 40k Slaanesh killed of all of the elven gods (apart from Khaine but I don't know the details).


Slaanesh didn't kill them all. According to the Chaos Daemons codex he captured Isha. Then Isha's cries caught the attention of Nurgle who felt sorry for her and rescued her.

Shes currently in Nurgle's throne room where he tests diseases out on her. Being the goddess of healing or life (not sure, don't know anything about eldar gods) she cures herself.

If Nurgle decides the disease was good enough he pours it into real space while Isha whispers to mortals how to cure the disease.

[Harlequin70]

The Laughing God is the Eldar God that was not Killed, he legged it into the Webway.
Kahine was shattered into pieces which are now his Avatars.

Some of the Gods may have the same names but not the same stories.

[Scorpion_gr]

Well not many people know this but in 40k Khaine was fighting with Slaanesh and Khorne (who wanted to absorb him) at the same time (tough dude i love him <3) . He knew he couldnt win so he broke hiself into a thousand pieces (not sure about the number) and scattered them across the universe. These are the avatars of Khaine Eldar use in dire times of need

[ticho123]

Currently there is about 5 times more High elves than their darker kin. And while we may be busy creating more Dark Elves, we're more busy killing each other. If we ever manage to "win in the end" it won't be because there are more of us. It'll be because 100% of us are warriors while they have poets, politics, tradesmen and so on.

I just have to add that the high elf poets, tradesmen etc are all trained in basic combat and they're all naturally disciplined so they're also soldiers.
If warhammer was real (wich it ISN'T) the dark elf society wouldn't work at all just beacuse they're 100% warrior but then again, that would mean orcs would be slaughtered due to lack of discipline and each soldiers personal strength not beign very important in a real battle.

[Zass Da Weird Boy]

In lore, some scholars have meddled with the theory Khaine is in fact Khorne, just with a different name...

Most of these scholars died soon after...

The fact remains. This could be the case.
Nothing can prove this wrong or right.

[scrubbiedude]

And yeah, the Khorne = Khaine idea is fun to toss around, but its almost certianly false.

Well look at how some Chaos Undivided worship the Chaos gods. They worship all the Chaos gods as one deity that has many different aspects. So that actually may make Khaine=Khorne argument a little more believable to me.

[scrubbiedude]

Just to add that Tzeencth is also the god of Hope. Each Chaos god has a positive side to him.


OMG Obama=Tzeentch worshipper?!

[ticho123]

In lore, some scholars have meddled with the theory Khaine is in fact Khorne, just with a different name...

Most of these scholars died soon after...

The fact remains. This could be the case.
Nothing can prove this wrong or right.

Instead of asking "Why would they be the same" instead ask "Why wouldn't they be the same?" It seems like the only diffrence between them is that Khorne is more of a warfare guy an Khaine's more of a murder guy.
I don't care much, for me Khaine is the aspect of battle. And the "god of murder" and Khorne alike are so damn lame and plain that I prefer to pretend like they don't exist.

[Deranger]

PROTIP: Warhammer Fantasy =/= Warhammer 40k. Don't try to meld the two together, they are not, and never were meant to be a part of the same universe.

[Shubop]

OMG Obama=Tzeentch worshipper?!
Oh NOT AGAIN!

[psykadelic224]

Wasn't there something about Khaine killing some guy that Khorne liked and it was Khorne that inflicted the whole "bloody handed god" thing? (For those that don't know the 'Bloody handed God' thing is due to the fact that his left hand is pernamently dripping of blood : P)

[holmcross01]

The Laughing God is the Eldar God that was not Killed, he legged it into the Webway.

It would have made have made a great snack. Those Elders deities are weedy little sneaks.

[holmcross01]

Well not many people know this but in 40k Khaine was fighting with Slaanesh and Khorne (who wanted to absorb him) at the same time (tough dude i love him <3) . He knew he couldnt win so he broke hiself into a thousand pieces (not sure about the number) and scattered them across the universed

Source on this? Everything I have ever read says that Slaanesh "shattered" Khaine in the fragments that now make up the avatars. Nothing about Khorne being involved (Khorne and Slaanesh teaming up? That's hard to believe) and nothing about Khaine sacrificing himself.

[Shubop]

Wasn't there something about Khaine killing some guy that Khorne liked and it was Khorne that inflicted the whole "bloody handed god" thing? (For those that don't know the 'Bloody handed God' thing is due to the fact that his left hand is pernamently dripping of blood : P)
In 40k Khaine's other hand is bloodied since he killed an Eldar mortal by stomping on his body. Asuryan was moved by this and cursed Khaine's hand to bleed forever because he had killed the Eldar (named Eldanesh).

In Fantasy I think his hand is bleeding because he is the god of murder, but I could be wrong.

[psykadelic224]

In 40k Khaine's other hand is bloodied since he killed an Eldar mortal by stomping on his body. Asuryan was moved by this and cursed Khaine's hand to bleed forever because he had killed the Eldar (named Eldanesh).

In Fantasy I think his hand is bleeding because he is the god of murder, but I could be wrong.


oh.... thanks lol. guess i was off by a long shot. but at least i got something right so its all good : P

[Baron Khaine]

There are only 2 Surviving Eldar Gods, 3 if you count Khaine, 4 if you count Ynnead, in 40k. Cegorach, The Laughing God, fled into the Webway, and Isha was saved from Slannesh by Nurgle and is now kept as a slave in the warp.

Kaela Mensha Khaine was too powerful for Slannesh to defeat entirely so he was rent into many pieces, and cast from the warp, never to return, these pieces came to rest in the wraithbone of the various Craftworlds.

Khaines hand drips blood eternally as a constant reminder of his murder of Eldanesh, a mighty Eldar Hero. Although technically Eldanesh had it coming cos he started the fight after that upstart Vaul got defeated for not finishing the 100 swords promised to Khaine

There is a very old story that Slannesh and Khorne battled for Khaine, with Khaine getting splintered in the ensuing battle, but Slannesh shattering Khaine is the more accepted version of events.

[Juthan Azha]

I belive the difference between K & K come more from the motives rather than the actions. Consider Khaine, as worshipped by the High Elves. He is the deity of War, the patron of the most dire of methods, used when all else fails. You do not turn to him lightly, but sometimes there is no other choice.

The Dark Elves have instead, pragmatically, discarded all other gods ( =methods / philosophies) in favor of Khaine. In essence, they've made the final solution the only solution. Why even bother with diplomacy, if anything (barring "morals") can be solved with blood? As such, Khaine is the god of Murder as method, not as an end in itself.

This is typical of the entire Dark Elven society, in which the highest trait is ruthlessness and drive to succeed, no matter the cost or the means. The worship of Khaine is the worship of the "Will to Power", and the willingness to shed any amount of blood and tears (preferrably others) to achieve one's goals. After all, one rarely commits "murder" without a reason, even if that reason is as simple as a thrill-kill.

Here lies the difference between Khone and Khaine. An example:


A follower of Khaine and a follower of Khorne encounter two potential opponents.

1: A fierce ogre mercenary, living by his wits.

2: An old woman, defenseless but in posession of great riches.

The follower of Khorne would go for the ogre, since all he cares for is the kill and the battle, and great battles pleases Khorne. (Granted, lacking the ogre he'd probably kill the old woman for lack of better bloodshed.)

The follower of Khaine would see no reason to endanger himself against a poor, but potentially lethal, opponent. Instead, he'd murder the old woman for her riches. The Dark Elf Khaine helps those who help themselves, and the crueller and more callous the act, the better. Even the Witch Elves, who on the surface seem very "khornate" in their battlefrenzy, enter battle for the thrill and the rush, not for the almost metaphysical act of "the kill".

In essence, this explains why an entire society can exist around such a crude concept as "murder", and it also serves to highlight Khaine's closer ties to the Lord of Pleasure, in that Khaine's killing is rooted in selfishness and self-service.

[Veldrik]

however, officially from Black Library and Games Workshop, Khaine and Khorne are the same diety, just differnt names.

eg; in the same way that Tzeentch ahs four names.

see Lost and the Damned, Slaves to Darkness, or all the fluff and chaos army books/lists up through to 5th ed.
I haven't bought 6th ed yet as i stopped collecting, but i still have everything since 2nd ed sitting on my book shelf.

[Baron Khaine]

however, officially from Black Library and Games Workshop, Khaine and Khorne are the same diety, just differnt names.

eg; in the same way that Tzeentch ahs four names.

see Lost and the Damned, Slaves to Darkness, or all the fluff and chaos army books/lists up through to 5th ed.
I haven't bought 6th ed yet as i stopped collecting, but i still have everything since 2nd ed sitting on my book shelf.

Um, no.

GW have never said that, or if they did, it was a very very very long time ago.

Khaine is the Eldar God of War, he is an Old One, a member of the race who shaped the Universe and Battled the Necrontyr and the C'Tan.

Khorne is a manifestation of rage in the Warp.

[Vermin Lord]

Um, no.

GW have never said that, or if they did, it was a very very very long time ago.

Khaine is the Eldar God of War, he is an Old One, a member of the race who shaped the Universe and Battled the Necrontyr and the C'Tan.

Khorne is a manifestation of rage in the Warp.

Um, no..he's not an Old One. The Old Ones created the Eldar, thus preceding the Eldar gods themselves. But Khaine did participate in the War in Heaven, and fought against the Yngir (a.k.a C'tan).

But I agree that GW never confirmed Khore and Khaine to be the same guy. They never denied it either. There's evidence for both though, and it's unlikely that the discussion will stop anytime soon.

[Baron Khaine]

Um, no..he's not an Old One. The Old Ones created the Eldar, thus preceding the Eldar gods themselves. But Khaine did participate in the War in Heaven, and fought against the Yngir (a.k.a C'tan).

But I agree that GW never confirmed Khore and Khaine to be the same guy. They never denied it either. There's evidence for both though, and it's unlikely that the discussion will stop anytime soon.

The Eldar are the Children of Isha and Kurnous, 2 of the Eldar Gods.

The Eldar Gods are the Old Ones. The Eldar are seen by the Old Ones as the ultimate perfect race, the Gods i.e. The Old Ones, chose to walk amongst them and teach them there ways, but eventually the Eldars perfectness (if thats a word), worked against them as they sought out deeper and darker pleasures, thus leading to the creation of Slannesh, who killed almost all of the Eldar Gods/Old Ones.

Its possible that the Eldar Gods do not represent all of the Old Ones, just a few of the Old Ones who chose to walk amongst the Eldar and were thus given god like status amongst the Eldar.

[Vermin Lord]

That sounds more like Eldar mythology to me...which is a thoroughly complicated topic to begin with.
In any case, I am drawing info from the Codex: Necrons wich states the following:

-The first sentient beings in the universe were the C'tan, immense beings of energy that fed on stars
-the first race to travel through space and discover it's secrets were the Old Ones, they had an insanely high tech level
-the Necrotyr race became jealous at the Old Ones and decided to wage war on them, somehow contacting the C'tan and enlisting their aid
-the Old Ones create a LOT of young races, each with certain abilities and purposes, to help them win the war. Amongst those racs are the Eldar and the Krork, and most certainly the Jokaero.
-The Old Ones also somehow let the warp tear into the real space, as it is harmful to the C'tan
-The War in Heaven rages for a long long time. (Certainly enough time for Eldar gods to form and take a role in the war, IMHO.)
-at one point, the C'tan trick the Necrontyr into becoming Necrons
-the war grinds to a halt as almost all life in the galaxy is destroyed as the Enslavers start popping up everywhere

End Result: The Old Ones are almost all gone, the C'tan and Necrons went into hybernation, and the young races are left to slowly repopulate the galaxy. The Eldar were the closest to the Old Ones and learned much of their secrets. And they still remember the war. And everyone except the Orks remembers the Nightbringer...

[Baron Khaine]

That sounds more like Eldar mythology to me...which is a thoroughly complicated topic to begin with.
In any case, I am drawing info from the Codex: Necrons wich states the following:

-The first sentient beings in the universe were the C'tan, immense beings of energy that fed on stars
-the first race to travel through space and discover it's secrets were the Old Ones, they had an insanely high tech level
-the Necrotyr race became jealous at the Old Ones and decided to wage war on them, somehow contacting the C'tan and enlisting their aid
-the Old Ones create a LOT of young races, each with certain abilities and purposes, to help them win the war. Amongst those racs are the Eldar and the Krork, and most certainly the Jokaero.
-The Old Ones also somehow let the warp tear into the real space, as it is harmful to the C'tan
-The War in Heaven rages for a long long time. (Certainly enough time for Eldar gods to form and take a role in the war, IMHO.)
-at one point, the C'tan trick the Necrontyr into becoming Necrons
-the war grinds to a halt as almost all life in the galaxy is destroyed as the Enslavers start popping up everywhere

End Result: The Old Ones are almost all gone, the C'tan and Necrons went into hybernation, and the young races are left to slowly repopulate the galaxy. The Eldar were the closest to the Old Ones and learned much of their secrets. And they still remember the war. And everyone except the Orks remembers the Nightbringer...

While thats a mild picture of the events i'll paint out the events fully.

The Old Ones were the first creatures in the universe, whether or not the C'Tan came first or not is irrelevant because they didn't exist in a form until the Necrontyr found them.

The Old Ones set about exploring the galaxy, terraforming planets, and began making some of the races we see today. They encountered the Necrontyr during this time.

The Necrontyr live short lives due to the deadly radiation given off by there sun, and are jealous of the Old Ones, who live very long lives. Thus they start the first War with the Old Ones. They are beaten, horrendously, and pushed back to there home world.

Millenia pass as the Necrontyr begin studying there star in an attempt to find a weapon to use against the Old Ones, and all other life in the Galaxy.

The Necrontyr find the C'Tan known as the Nightbringer inhabiting the star that has so plagued there race, eventually they can speak to it, and create a body for it out of living metal. The Nightbringer contacts the other C'Tan and eventually they all have bodies made out of living metal, otherwise known as a Necrodermis. The C'Tan turn the Necrontyr into the Necrons, giving them living metal bodies like there own and removing all free thought from them.

The Second War begins, with the C'Tan at the forefront of the onslaught, The Old Ones are all but defeated, so they begin to create races with a stronger attachment to the warp, such as the Slann and the Eldar. The C'Tan, having no presence in the Warp, cannot defend against these attacks, and instead turn there attention to severing the connections between reality and the immaterium.

The Enslaver Plague begins, wiping out most of the sentient races in the galaxy, including most of the Old Ones.

With most of there food source gone, the C'Tan and there Necron servants go into hibernation. Thus ends the War in Heaven.

Now this is where I have had a bit of confusion, because, not all of the Old Ones are dead, but I think the Eldar Gods participated in the battle against the Necrons, I believe it was Old Ones, who had taken a large role in shaping the Eldars culture, thus they are revered as the Eldar Gods. Khaine, we know took part in the battle against the Necrons, because he shattered the Nightbringers Necrodermis, and it splintered into his body, tainting his form and giving him "The Aspect of the Reaper", this is where the Dark Reaper aspect warriors get there name from.

I do however think that the Eldar Gods are Old Ones that survived the battle with the Necrontyr, survived the ensuing Enslaver Plague, and then died because of Slannesh in the 29th millenium. Perhaps they were protected by the Eldars belief in them, perhaps they were Old Ones, who died in the War in Heaven, but, who due to them having such a large role in shaping the Eldars culture were born into the Warp in the same way that the Chaos Gods were born.

I have however heard your theory before that the Eldar were created to create psychic manifestation to use against the C'Tan in the last phases of the War in Heaven, however, when the war was over, the Old Ones were dead and the C'Tan had begun hibernation, the Eldar began to worship there own psychic constructs as gods. Which would mean that the Eldar Gods are much more like the Chaos Gods than previously thought. If this theory is true, which I suspect it may be, then the Eldar Gods are still much like the Old Ones, as the Eldar probably shaped there psychic constructs off of real living Old Ones.

[Julius]

I just have to add that the high elf poets, tradesmen etc are all trained in basic combat and they're all naturally disciplined so they're also soldiers.
If warhammer was real (wich it ISN'T) the dark elf society wouldn't work at all just beacuse they're 100% warrior but then again, that would mean orcs would be slaughtered due to lack of discipline and each soldiers personal strength not beign very important in a real battle.

Dark Elf society works because they are slavers and pillagers.

[Julius]

I've always gotten the feeling that the Chaos gods have "aspects" so to speak.

Nurgle is the god of despair, disease and corruption but at the same time he's Papa Nurgle, he gives strength in adversity and the determination to carry on no matter what.

Khorne is the god of blood, death, carnage, murder etc (and I think Khaine in the eyes of the Dark Elfs may be an aspect of him to be honest) but he is also the god of Honorable combat, martial prowess and sucess in battle. From what I remember he HATES cheap shots and sorcery (because he see's it as cheesy, you should win through superior skill and strength.)

Slaanesh is the god of depravity, pleasure, selfishness and rumpity bumpty. But he/she is also the god of beauty, passion, creativity to some extent and rumpity bumpity (procreation is needful)

Tzeench is the god of change in all forms. But also the god of plots, planning, strategy, sorcery and change in good ways to. (I know the least about the changer of ways to be honest).

So I think many of the gods may be aspects of the Chaos gods in some ways.

Sigmar, Morr, Shalya, Ranald, Ulric, the Dwarfen Pantheon and most of the Elf Pantheon are seperate though to my knowledge.

This but I'd say that the gods are also merely aspect of the Chaos Gods. Chaos is a linked but different dimension to our own. Our emotion shapes them, which is why it is Chaos as life and particularly emotion is chaotic.

All of the gods are merely aspects of the 4 greater gods, who are in turn merely aspects of Chaos. There are 4 basic emotions which are the greatest ones. They are neither evil nor good but shaped by the emotions of others. This means that neither intent or action are actually important, but the emotion itself that is felt. If you kill someone by accident but experience pleasure out of it, you are still feeding Slaanesh.

[ShinMaruku]

I find it strange that "Khaine = Khorne" hasn't been mentioned, which is what I believe.
In 40k that is why Khaine exists. Because Khaine is an aspect of Khorne.

[Vermin Lord]

In 40k that is why Khaine exists. Because Khaine is an aspect of Khorne.

There is more proof that Khaine is a separate god from Khorne in WH40K than in fantasy, really. We know he fought the Yngir, and that he got splintered by Slaanesh and Khorne.

On another note, there is a chapter of Liber Chaotica that claims Khaine is just another name for Khorne, not even an aspect. Still, this was written from an standpoint od an Imperial Witch Hunter, so it's not horribly conclusive. The chapter also contains a letter written from a high elf perspective, that explains the difference of worshipping khaine between the High and the Dark Elves. Basically, the high Elves consider the Dark Elves fanatics that have taken the worship to the extreme and are doing it wrong.

[ShinMaruku]

As how all the 'Gods' in warhammer are formed by thoughts of mortals in the warp it would not be much of a stretch but still Salanesh could not absorb Khaine because Khonre came in and would not let something like that go away.

Regardless I love how the Imperium treats Khaine "Another daemon! Now battle brothers, in the Emperors NAME!"

[Vermin Lord]

Regardless I love how the Imperium treats Khaine "Another daemon! Now battle brothers, in the Emperors NAME!"

To be honest, the Avatar in th 4th edition had the Daemon rule, and for all intents and purposes counted as a daemon. They did say it's not quite the same thing, just close enough.

[Fop]

So what is the deal with Khaine, Mor, etc.? Are these gods also part of the Warp along with the Chaos Gods, or are they somehow separate? Also, the High Elves seem to recognize Khaine as well, but in a more complex and less straightforward manner? Do they respect him as a side of their own nature, which they must keep in check? I swear that my White Lion actually sometimes scream "Khaaine!" sometimes when rushing into battle...

So in conclusion, this question seems to be less about the DE and more about the gods and their relationship to the HE, but whatever :/


Khaine existed before they dreamt the whole 'Chaos' thing up (at least in anything like its late 80's post-Realm of Chaos source book form), and he certainly wasn't a Chaos god then (and I don't think he is now) so I don't think it/he does mesh particularly well, as much of GW lore doesn't.

[Mogdin Wrathammer]

In 40k, Khaine orbits around Khorne's energy in the Chaos Realm. He's like a supplement to Khorne's power. I'd imagine it works very much the same way in BF.

[Misanthrope Prime]

The way I see it, a lot of gods are "combinations" of two or more chaos gods. Khaine is a combination of Khorne (name similarity, blood, killing, bronze, etc) and Slaanesh (elegance, indulgence, artfulness). Similarly, the Horned Rat is a combination of Tzeentch (plotting, magic, conniving) and Nurgle (disease). And, stretching my idea further, the Great Maw is Nurgle and Slaanesh combined (big, disgusting, gluttoness and excessive).

[Hellzbellz]

Sorry, but thats the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. They just go inn there and kill ANYTHING. Thats whats Khorne is about. Understand that slaughtering your own tribe in a raging bloodlust would make Khorne like you. Innocents bleed just as good as other warriors.

Ok so someone might have already anwsered this or people dont care anymore but I feel the need to give my two cents.

Khorne has a battle honor type thing but who you kill has nothing to do with it, its how you kill them. Thats were 1 on 1 fights to the death and all that jazz come in. Now in adition all blood will get you favor with khane, but blood that was hard to get (for example much stronger or many more opponents) earns you more. But yah the lord of destruction doesnt care, he just wants blood and skulls, blood and skulls.

[Flegler]

Similarly, the Horned Rat is a combination of Tzeentch (plotting, magic, conniving) and Nurgle (disease).

The Horned Rat is basically Tzeentch, it's just Clan Pestilens who have swayed to the worship of Tzeentch's eternal enemy, Nurgle (although still under the guise of the Horned Rat). Children of the Horned Rat says pretty clearly that the skaven are the creation of Tzeentch, and skaven society is a good picture of what human civilisation would be like if everybody worshipped Tzeentch - ceaseless, rampant growth, progress at all costs, get ahead no matter the cost to others, everybody constantly scheming and striving.

Regarding Khaine and Khorne: it's important to remember that Khorne is not a human god, he was known to the elves and the old ones before the dawn of human civilisation. The Chaos gods are universal and derive from the base impulses of every living thing.

Accordingly, Khorne is literally the sum of all violence. Every living thing's anger, rage, hate and will to destroy is encompassed in Khorne. Of course the impulses that drive the worship of Khaine feed Khorne. So does the worship of Ulric and Grimnir and probably Gork, and hell, probably Sigmar as often as not. Khorne contains the aspect of the honourable warrior in himself, but also the raging berserker, the murderer, the wife-beater, the executioner.

If I had to guess why Khaine and Khorne have such similar names, I would say that the elves named both of them, becoming aware of Khorne as something different and greater from the Khaine of their mythology in the years after the Chaos gate collapsed. If 'Khaela Mensha Khaine' is the 'bloody-handed god' then it seems likely that 'Khorne' would mean something like simply 'Blood' or 'Bloodthirsty'.

[Julius]

Accordingly, Khorne is literally the sum of all violence. Every living thing's anger, rage, hate and will to destroy is encompassed in Khorne. Of course the impulses that drive the worship of Khaine feed Khorne. So does the worship of Ulric and Grimnir and probably Gork, and hell, probably Sigmar as often as not. Khorne contains the aspect of the honourable warrior in himself, but also the raging berserker, the murderer, the wife-beater, the executioner.



Indeed. People seem to forget that the 4 Chaos gods are often contradictory and only need emotions to grow. People who worship the goddess of learning of the empire (forget her name) also feed Tzeentch. Love feeds Slaanesh. The gods are only evil because of the fact that most of the world is evil. It's a good take on the actual world where negative emotions seem to far outnumber the positive emotions.

Chaos is the classic "Man against himself" idea. The emotions that living beings feel directly causes the power. It's why Mankind can never win. They battle against something that is a key-part of their existence.