Any reason lore wise Mythic wouldn't use The Knights of Morr?

[Gerd]

I ask cause they look pretty BA and are the only knightly order that I saw that would match the BAery of Destruction. They also seem like they would mesh well with crazy pistol wielding guys and holy men who like to smash in peoples skulls with big hammers.

http://uk.games-workshop.com/empire/knights-chapters/12/

I know next to nothing about the Warhammer world so apologies if going with them as the Empire tank class would break all sorts of lore.

[who]

I don't see why not, then again I'm in the same boat as you and don't really know any lore. Though I would love to play one of those.

[Maximilian]

Honestly only 4 knightly Orders are common enough to be the tank class for Empire.

Reiksguard, Order of the Blazing Sun, Knights Panther or Knights of the White Wolf

of those I would say either Reiksgaurd, or Knights of the Blazing Sun.

While I love Knights of the White Wolf I don't think the Empire needs another class that only uses Hammers. Knights of the Panther have always been ho hum.

Reiksgaurd would look much better IMO than knights of the Blazing Sun, but they don't have Knight in their title.

The "real" Knights will come if they ever do Bretonnians as a expansion race for Order. Grail Knights being the single most buff Knights in the Warhammer World.

[Gerd]

Thanks for the info Max. :)

[Direlord]

The "real" Knights will come if they ever do Bretonnians as a expansion race for Order. Grail Knights being the single most buff Knights in the Warhammer World.

my blood knights or the new chaos knights have something to say about that. there are actually many knightly orders, just the ones max listed are the most famous and made by GW. mythic can techincally make up a knightly order and that would be fine for game purposes.

knights of morr could work but it does go away with the whole sigmar thing. still big knights in black armor with a giant 2handed sword would be great. makes me miss the blackguard all the more.

[Seductivpancakes]

my blood knights or the new chaos knights have something to say about that. there are actually many knightly orders, just the ones max listed are the most famous and made by GW. mythic can techincally make up a knightly order and that would be fine for game purposes.

knights of morr could work but it does go away with the whole sigmar thing. still big knights in black armor with a giant 2handed sword would be great. makes me miss the blackguard all the more.
Have you heard the new rules for the Chaos Knights?

I think Reiksguard would be perfect. Since Karl Franz is in this game, and I hear you can fight him.

[Julius]

Have you heard the new rules for the Chaos Knights?


Nope.

Are they unbelievably strong again?

[Seductivpancakes]

Nope.

Are they unbelievably strong again?

Well they are expensive point wise of course lol.

They are strength 4, with two attacks. They use magical weapon that gives them +1 strength and all their attacks are magical attacks. They also cause fear. That is without marks.

[Julius]

Well they are expensive point wise of course lol.

They are strength 4, with two attacks. They use magical weapon that gives them +1 strength and all their attacks are magical attacks. They also cause fear. That is without marks.

:(

Can you upgrade them to chosen? If so, I never want to meet them ever.

[Maximilian]

well the new Chaos Knights are nice, they are not Grail Knights, close but no cigar. Add the fact that Grail Knights get +5 ward save, lance formation, 5ws, 4 S, 5 I, and 2 Attacks as well. Then the rules of Living Saint (all Grail Knights can challenge), Grail Vow(Immune to all Psychology), and Purebred Warhorses(no movement penalty for barding). That makes then dead hard.

[Julius]

well the new Chaos Knights are nice, they are not Grail Knights, close but no cigar. Add the fact that Grail Knights get +5 ward save, lance formation, 5ws, 4 S, 5 I, and 2 Attacks as well. Then the rules of Living Saint (all Grail Knights can challenge), Grail Vow(Immune to all Psychology), and Purebred Warhorses(no movement penalty for barding). That makes then dead hard.

True. Aren't the Grail Knights a 0-1 choice and Rare though? (And unbelievably expensive in points...)

[Maximilian]

This is true, but we were not discussing points or number of units, we were discussing dead hard Knights, Grail Knights take the cake in that department. Also in large games if you take the Bretonnian King that 0-1 is gone. :)

I do think that the Chaos Knights are nice though. I have multiple armies and I simply love the crazy Arthurian Knights that are the Bretonnians.

Oh and for Single bad Knight points wise "Green Knight" ftw :)

[Direlord]

i think chosen is it's own choice now not an upgrade but i could be wrong. chaos knights also get a few more things i think.

blood knights str 5 t 4 init probably 4 ws i want to say 4 but could be 5. base 2 attacks then frenzy can give banner to have i think a 4+ ward against any shooting. undead which is a mixed bag, so 5 man unit on the charge i'm throwing 16 str 7 chops from the knights and 10 str 4 from the nightmares. with new VC magic i can also bring them back to life on a 4+. they can also accept challenges with the champion must issue and accept any unless character is in there.

however they are also something like 55 pts a model then + command group + magic banner + upgrade to champ or whatever. for my rare choice i prefer a unit of wraiths or a varghulf

[Seductivpancakes]

:(

Can you upgrade them to chosen? If so, I never want to meet them ever.
Yes they can. I'm currently reading the Blackhearts, and I don't even want to meet Marauders.

Well Chaos Knights, like Blood knights are very expensive, so I expect them to do nasty things.

I was going to do a silly VC army with over 300 zombies, and only zombies. Guided by necromancers and a Vampire Lord. Then I had second thoughts regarding the price as well as the amount of work required to build and paint em all.

[Warmaster tibs]

This is not a TT discussion on knights. Get back to the main topic.

I like all of the knightly order but prefer either the KOTBS, Reiksguard,Hunters of Sigmar or the Knights of Morr.

http://uk.games-workshop.com/empire/knights-chapters/14/ would be fun though:p

[Gerd]

This is not a TT discussion on knights. Get back to the main topic.

I like all of the knightly order but prefer either the KOTBS, Reiksguard,Hunters of Sigmar or the Knights of Morr.

http://uk.games-workshop.com/empire/knights-chapters/14/ would be fun though:p
Yeah I thought the same thing. Would certainly add a certain... flair to the Empire's forces.:p

Hunters of Sigmar looked interesting too.

[Maximilian]

Ok to settle this, the main reason they would never use Knights of Morr? Because Knights of Morr are a DIY Knightly order for GW inhouse. They have nothing lore wise written about them other than what you see on that web page. This all came about in 7th edition of Warhammer when GW decided to Retcon the Knights. So that people could make their own Orders like they do with Space Marines.

If you are going to stick with just Orders that actually have a real history in the GW world then it would have to be the four "main" Orders of Knights

Knights of the Blazing Sun
Knights of the White Wolf
Knights of the Panther
Rieksguard

[Fritz]

Blazing Sun is the most suitable imo. Reiksguard and Panther are mostly about polearms, no? It would look silly without a horse. And I like the order of the Blazing sun as much as the Reiksguard so I'm fine having it. This order of Morr has no charisma whatsoever btw. And they don't look knightly, more like nazgul was here.

[Maximilian]

Well not so much polearms as Lances. As all Knights except for Knights of the White Wolf use lances. Part of the Lore of the Knights of the White Wolf is that they are the Royal defenders of Middenhiem and part of the Warrior cult of Ulric the Wolf/Winter God of the Empire. They only use Hammers in respect to Sigmar.

[Fritz]

Although we already do have the Warrior Priests of Sigmar to do that. Swords are the way to go imo, lances look far-fetched without mounted combat and mounted combat would look silly if I just stood on my horse near you and started attacking.

[Maximilian]

Agreed that was why I thought that Mythic chose them out of the Knightly Orders.

[Teefgrinda]

The "real" Knights will come if they ever do Bretonnians as a expansion race for Order. Grail Knights being the single most buff Knights in the Warhammer World.

If we get the Grail Knights, I'm switching to Order. :mrgreen:

[chancre]

Considering there is no mounted combat I would rather see the Greatswords as the Empire Tank.

Also Brettonia != Empire. Seperate nation, they would be their own faction. Not an expansion on Empire, perhaps you were thinking Kislev?

[igotsmeakabob11]

I'd much prefer the White Wolves to any others.
Love me some Ulric.

[Hinty]

The Griffon Order is a Sigmarite order so I'd think that would rule out the Ulric worshiping White Wolves and the Knights of Morr, of course Mythic didn't seem to think it ruled out the KotBS who worship whatsername, the Estalian goddess.... so at least the other two orders worship gods that are widely worshiped in the Empire aswell as actualy being based in the Area's of the empire the fight is in ( KotBS are almost exclusively active in the most south westerly part of the empire, about the only part that ISN'T in the game)


Hang on... The Griffon Order is a knightly order right? more or less. Knights of the Griffon. Problem solved. Surely.

[Tunaghost]

Considering there is no mounted combat I would rather see the Greatswords as the Empire Tank.

Also Brettonia != Empire. Seperate nation, they would be their own faction. Not an expansion on Empire, perhaps you were thinking Kislev?
Knights are more iconic and popular than Greatswords I'd imagine. Also, there is already the Swordmasters.

I'd much prefer the White Wolves to any others.
Love me some Ulric.
White Wolves wield hammers and no helmet. I'd think they would be too close for comfort with the Warrior Priests.

As for Black Guard of Morr, WFRP has some nice info on them:

THE BLACK GUARD
Patron Deity: Morr
Primary Chapterhouse: Lucilli, Tilea
Grandmaster: Lavarro San Andera
Colours: Black

The Black Guard of Morr inspires feelings of fear and dread in both friends and foes alike. The combination of their all-enclosing black, obsidian plate armour and their vow of silence makes their presence unsettling, and many whisper that they are really Undead spirits bound into the service of the Cult of Morr by its priests.
The truth, of course, is far from mundane. The Black Guard are mortal Knights who are devoted to the God of the dead and whose purpose is to guard the graveyards, mausoleums, and other sites sacred to Morr. In some instances, they are called upon to hunt down Undead and the Necromancers who would bring them into the world.

The Order

The Black Guard rarely march to war, spurning conquests and threats in favour of standing watch against enemies from the realms of the dead. Not surprisingly, most forces marching against the dark counts of Sylvania find members of the Black Guard among them. notably, however, the Black Guard took part in the crusades against Araby. Their presence was to prove invaluable during the siege of El Haikk, when their silent and stalwart demeanour terified many of the defenders, who believed they were the angry spirits of their ancestors returning to kill them.

The true reasons behind the Black Guard's involvement in the crusade became clear after the Sultan was slain and his armies scattered. Rather than return home, the Black Guard marched onwards towards the Land of the Dead, Khemri. There they sought to do battle with the Undead armies of the Tomb Kings and entered a protracted war with them, allying themselves with some of the native people who lived in their cold shadow. Many of the Black Guard perished on the crusade in Khemri, named the Black Crusade in their honour, but those who returned brought with them fabulous treasures and dark tomes, noew interned within sealed vaults beneath the Temple of Morr in Luccini, opened only in times of great need.

Knights

The Black Guard are instantly recognisable, for they wear heavy suits of black obsidian plate mail, ornately carved with raven imagery and padded to allow the knight to move with eerie silence. The armour totally hides any sign of the living knight encased within; this is partly theatrical; the better to maintain the knights' otherworldly aura of fear, but is also practical, as even the most minor touches can allow some creatures of the night to drain their preys' souls from their bodies. Finally, when fighting foes who have a knack of returning from the grave, and who use Dark Magic to unleash nightmares and other foul spells long after the field of batle has been quit, it can be sensible to hide your identity.

Members of the Black Guard take vows of silence when initiated into the order, and ar enot permitted to speak or to utter a word when on duty. This further adds to the air of menace that surrounds them. The Black Guard are permitted to speak at specific times, such as to call out warnings or orders in battle, although there are some within the order who maintain their vow of silence at all times outside of prayer. The most penitent and fanatical members of the order cut out their tongues to enforce the vow.

The Black Guard fight from the backs of mighty, black warhorses similarly clad in barding made from black lacquer or obsidian. When mounted, they fight with huge greatswords and warhammers that glint silver as they smite their foes. The Black Guard cannot always fight from horseback, especialyl when standing guard or pursuing their enemies into tombs or crypts, and when on foot often use wicked-looking halberds.

The Black Guard's principal purpose is to serve as guardians of the temples and Gardens of Morr. They vigilantly protect these sacred sites from defilement by graverobbers and their ilk, patrolling the grounds with weapons at the ready. Many of these knights attach themselves to Morrian dignitaries, providing protection and adding to the priests' sinister atmosphere. Whilst the Black Guard rarely has oppurtunity to confront the more vile opponents of their faith, they welcome such opportunities, and are more than suited to the task of destroying Undead.

Members of the Black Guard are a curious lot, for it takes a peculiar person to voluntarily spend his time stalking the mist-shrouded grounds of the Old World's cemeteries. most are tormented souls who see themselves as more akin to the dead they guard and the Undead they fight than those who walk, talk and breathe around them in everyday life.