Vampire Blood Knight vs Chosen of chaos gods

[Sladex]

Lore wise who do you guys think will win in a one on one fight between a blood dragon knight and a chosen of Khonre/Nurgle/Slannesh/Tzeentch?

[Maximilian]

A Blood Dragon, hands down. You have to understand while the Chosen will have many "gifts" of Power from his patron God, they are still mortal warriors with only the experience of their lifetime.

Blood Dragons are Immortal Vampire warriors, that were made vampire from some of the greatest Knights of the old world, Bretonnia. Add to that centuries of martial training and battle. Then the gifts of their Vampiric blood and you have a being that one on one is just about the equal of any physical combat being in the Warhammer world.

Table top wise, back in 6th edition this was a no contest, as Blood Dragons were Lords and Heroes. Now in 7th edition they have made them a unit of very powerful Knights. As such at 55pts a model they are still just a bit more powerful than Chosen because of all the crazy Vampire special rules.

[Calelith]

IMO as good as Both are it depends on the god.

Khorne vs BK: Close as both a dealy warriors and can take alot of damage to take down.

Slaanesh vs BK: probably BK, most slaaneshi warriors use and rely on sents and such to slow and dull down their foes, and i believe vamps would have some immunity from them destroying the edge they would have had.

Nurgle vs BK: BK, as above they rely on their disgusting apperence and smells along with dieseses and poxes to ruin a foe, and as we know vamps are immune to illness and i cant see them losing their stomach over a smell or sight.

Tzeentch vs BK: this imo would depend on how powerful of a sorcerer the chosen is, they wouldn't be able to outfight the vamp but the magic they use would probably give them an edge.

Another factor for all of them would be the weapons and armour they use,

[Dougal Meatshanks]

Well the blood knight is a vampire whilst the chosen is still mortal albiet superhuman in many respects.

Vampires cannot be killed by a sword through the heart. They are also extremely strong and skilled.

I'm not much of a fan of vampires but in Warhammer background a Vampire WOULD beat a chosen in a fight.

Hellebore

[chancre]

The biggest and baddest from Chaos can't match up to the typical Vampire you make up to lead your army.

As is the best Chaos Lords have issues matching up with Ork Warbosses.

[Seductivpancakes]

You forget some Chosens may be mortal but they spend centuries roaming the chaos wastes serving their god. If there was a hell on Earth it would be the Chaos waste.

I don't see how Orc warbosses can give the best Chaos lord trouble.

[Grimloq]

I don't see how Orc warbosses can give the best Chaos lord trouble.

Tell that to Grimgor and I'm sure he'll remind you of his little scrap with Archon.

Grimgor iz de best! :D

[Grimloq]

A Blood Dragon, hands down. You have to understand while the Chosen will have many "gifts" of Power from his patron God, they are still mortal warriors with only the experience of their lifetime.

Blood Dragons are Immortal Vampire warriors, that were made vampire from some of the greatest Knights of the old world, Bretonnia. Add to that centuries of martial training and battle. Then the gifts of their Vampiric blood and you have a being that one on one is just about the equal of any physical combat being in the Warhammer world.

Table top wise, back in 6th edition this was a no contest, as Blood Dragons were Lords and Heroes. Now in 7th edition they have made them a unit of very powerful Knights. As such at 55pts a model they are still just a bit more powerful than Chosen because of all the crazy Vampire special rules.

The 55pt Blood Dragons are pretty much the youngest of the Blood Dragons as I understand it. An ancient Blood Dragon is pretty much as badass as bipedals come in close combat.

Dont think there's anything in the Warhammer World that Abhorash cant mangle to a bloody pulp.

[Seductivpancakes]

Tell that to Grimgor and I'm sure he'll remind you of his little scrap with Archon.

Grimgor iz de best! :D
Grimgor iz da best. Thats true, but he wouldn't beat Archaon if it wasn't for Valten and Luthor Huss.

[kir]

the vampire, especiually if older, since he then has magic to boot, to make the chosen age months within seconds, and turn him to dust on a touch entirely.And blood dragons kinda dont have the habit of dying since they dish out a boatload of damage.

[Veilside]

the vampire, especiually if older, since he then has magic to boot, to make the chosen age months within seconds, and turn him to dust on a touch entirely.And blood dragons kinda dont have the habit of dying since they dish out a boatload of damage.

Champions of Tzeentch also have good magic abilities ;) They're certainly more powerful on that front than a Blood Dragon.

[Spiky Yellowteef]

Champions of Tzeentch also have good magic abilities ;) They're certainly more powerful on that front than a Blood Dragon.

Please, even you flawed mortals could be better magicans than Abhorash's kin. However if it was Necrarch, the only true vampires the rest are traitors, we were talking about.

@OP:
Depends. Are you wearing a blade of silver, is it sunny, do you have daemonsroot or witchbane and are you using a stake?

[Veilside]

Please, even you flawed mortals could be better magicans than Abhorash's kin. However if it was Necrarch, the only true vampires the rest are traitors, we were talking about.

@OP:
Depends. Are you wearing a blade of silver, is it sunny, do you have daemonsroot or witchbane and are you using a stake?

It'd be better if that actually made sense. ;)

[Spiky Yellowteef]

It'd be better if that actually made sense. ;)

Sorry mortal. I shall compensate for your inexperience and youth. (Did my alot of mistakes there, sorry)

Please, even you flawed mortals could be better magicans than Abhorash's kin. However if it was Necrarch, the only true vampires (the rest are traitors), we were talking about then it would be a different story.

@OP: Depends. Are the chosen wearing a blade of silver, is it sunny, does the chosen have daemonsroot or witchbane and are the chosen using a stake?

[Cyzyk]

I think he means that Blood Dragons are crappy magicians.

Anyway, the Blood Dragon would win by far.

He's physically more powerful. Stronger, tougher, faster. He's probably more experienced as well, and most likely the product of a society that trains their warriors (like Bretonnia) rather than relying on those that survive (Norsca). Such societies produce better soldiers.

Pretty much every advantage goes to the Blood Dragon.

[Saif]

I would be the one to disagree... Vampire is by far stronger, faster etc. than normal human, whereas chosen (or better Champion) is stronger, faster etc than normal human. It would depend on age of vampire, on, um.... chosenness of chosen and many other factors.

The match for hero lvl vampire would be hero from chaos army.

AS for Abhorash (one of coolest figures in fluff), I doubt he can still be counted as Blood Dragon as he doesn't crave blood and I dunno if he is technically a vampire.... And for his power level - Bel'akor could be an opponent...

Also, we Chaos have the ultimate answer to undead, someone that makes vampires wet their pants - Harry THE HAMMER!!!!!! :D

[Nathar]

I would have to agree and disagree with all of y'all. You can't call it just by saying blood dragons vs. chosen.

Vampires (Blood dragons as well) come at so many levels. Chosen in even more! In the recent version of warhammer both can be mere (elite) knights. I prefer 6th where vampires were the crazy dangerous fighters they should be.

So basically the level determines it. The weakest vampire would beat the weakest chosen, and the most powerful vampire would beat the most powerful chosen (yes, I believe Abhorash would step all over Archaon if he got the chance). Anything in between could be a cointoss.

[Calelith]

the vampire, especiually if older, since he then has magic to boot, to make the chosen age months within seconds, and turn him to dust on a touch entirely.And blood dragons kinda dont have the habit of dying since they dish out a boatload of damage.

You can't age what isn't alive, i dont think chaos warriors especially chosen are human anymore.

Thinking about it more a chosen of chaos will have been fight for longer and harder than a vampire (remember time flows differently in the wastes) and it takes a hell of alot of skill and power to become a chosen, unlike in WAR you get maybe 10 in a army and most chosen lead their own forces.

And remember that they are the favored of the gods, and chances are their patron migt intervene if he see's his pet losing :D

[Demrush]

I would be the one to disagree... Vampire is by far stronger, faster etc. than normal human, whereas chosen (or better Champion) is stronger, faster etc than normal human. It would depend on age of vampire, on, um.... chosenness of chosen and many other factors.

The match for hero lvl vampire would be hero from chaos army.

AS for Abhorash (one of coolest figures in fluff), I doubt he can still be counted as Blood Dragon as he doesn't crave blood and I dunno if he is technically a vampire.... And for his power level - Bel'akor could be an opponent...

Also, we Chaos have the ultimate answer to undead, someone that makes vampires wet their pants - Harry THE HAMMER!!!!!! :D


Harry the Hammer may scare the crap out of undead but not Vampires. I think his special rule against undead doesn't apply or mustn't apply to vampires...those guys are not of the same creed as zombies and skeletons!

Now moving on to the Abhorash discussion. No where in the warhammer lore does it suggest that Abhorash is stronger than any other super character around. Tis true, he is the most friggin awesomest kickass of all the character (my fav too!) but asides from being able to rid himself of his vampire thirst by drinking a dragon dry, not much else can be said about him that really proves he can beat the likes of Bel'akor or others. Nonetheless, I do think he is amongst the top Warhammer Hero's and Villains List.

As for BKs, I see them prevailing over champions of chaos but only depending on the match up. I think that the magic heavy opponents would have the upper edge in this case. Otherwise, and unless the Champion's God interferes, I think a senior BK would have the upper hand when fighting chaos champions. Bear in mind that I'm talking in the context of the 6th edition Warhammer VC and Chaos armies and not the 7th.

Lastly, I've always seen vampires as the bane of chaos gods...they can't be subdued by them in the same manner as others in the warhammer world. They are not mortals so they fear not of death and they show no true sense of emotions which a chaos god could use to their advantage. In fact, its their very selfishness and self-sustaining nature that allows them to stand against the forces of chaos. And because of this, the very fact that they cannot be manipulated, I give the Vampires an upper edge against most mortal chaos champs and villains.

[tmunoz4]

Harry the Hammer may scare the crap out of undead but not Vampires. I think his special rule against undead doesn't apply or mustn't apply to vampires...those guys are not of the same creed as zombies and skeletons!

-unless it's specifically stated that vampires are excluded...vampires are still undead.

Now moving on to the Abhorash discussion. No where in the warhammer lore does it suggest that Abhorash is stronger than any other super character around. Tis true, he is the most friggin awesomest kickass of all the character (my fav too!) but asides from being able to rid himself of his vampire thirst by drinking a dragon dry, not much else can be said about him that really proves he can beat the likes of Bel'akor or others. Nonetheless, I do think he is amongst the top Warhammer Hero's and Villains List.

-Abhorash owning Archaon, Grimgor, etc are up to pure speculation and discussion, and imo that's what makes it fun! :) It's like the whole Nagash vs Teclis vs Kroak.

As for BKs, I see them prevailing over champions of chaos but only depending on the match up. I think that the magic heavy opponents would have the upper edge in this case. Otherwise, and unless the Champion's God interferes, I think a senior BK would have the upper hand when fighting chaos champions. Bear in mind that I'm talking in the context of the 6th edition Warhammer VC and Chaos armies and not the 7th.

Again, pure speculation. Tabletop wise, my Chaos Lord never had problems with BKs. But neither did my Bret Lord (pure defensive setup for this one :p).

Lastly, I've always seen vampires as the bane of chaos gods...they can't be subdued by them in the same manner as others in the warhammer world. They are not mortals so they fear not of death and they show no true sense of emotions which a chaos god could use to their advantage. In fact, its their very selfishness and self-sustaining nature that allows them to stand against the forces of chaos. And because of this, the very fact that they cannot be manipulated, I give the Vampires an upper edge against most mortal chaos champs and villains.

Ah, but Undead owe their existence to Tzeentch. They're all playing the role given to them by the great manipulator. :cool:

[belowfreezing]

probably be one heck of a fight if it was a Chosen Champion vs. Bloodknight i would pay to see it lol :rolleyes: (Lore wise anyways)

[Gaugamela]

The strongest one would win.
But as it's said. The Blood Knights are more homogeneous and generally more powerful than the whole lot of Chaos Knights.
Would be an interesting fight though.

[Gerrok]

I think the one who rolls better ward saves will win.

That is, unless one of them dies early by getting squished by Bob the angry deamon of miscasts by rolling a 2 on the miscast table.

[Cognitave]

If there was a hell on Earth it would be the Chaos waste.


That's arguable.
I agree, the Wastes are nowhere I want to be, but Sylvania is also extremely bad. In the Wastes, you constantly fight against enemies you can slay, or those so much stronger than you that you're beheaded before you know it. You can live as a Northman, though it may not be always peaceful, but there are villages and normal families and such.

Sylvania, on the other hand, there is no outright killing you unless it's a Vampire. You'll endure a slow, painful death at the hands of enemies who will continue to rise even after you cut them down. The only living are the humans who serve some unknown plan for the counts who rule the dreaded land, and live in a constant state of fear rather then reverence.

They're both hellholes, although I don't know which is truly worse.

As for the fight;
I think it'll go to the vampire, unless he just marginally loses one round of combat and rolls bad on his LD and accidentally fades.

[Blundertoph Obslist]

A Blood Dragon, hands down. You have to understand while the Chosen will have many "gifts" of Power from his patron God, they are still mortal warriors with only the experience of their lifetime.

Blood Dragons are Immortal Vampire warriors, that were made vampire from some of the greatest Knights of the old world, Bretonnia. Add to that centuries of martial training and battle. Then the gifts of their Vampiric blood and you have a being that one on one is just about the equal of any physical combat being in the Warhammer world.

Table top wise, back in 6th edition this was a no contest, as Blood Dragons were Lords and Heroes. Now in 7th edition they have made them a unit of very powerful Knights. As such at 55pts a model they are still just a bit more powerful than Chosen because of all the crazy Vampire special rules.



I think that a Bloodthirster would kick the shish out of any BK, possible exception being Abhorrash.

[Doc Lumbago]

depends on levels
at the start its a Viking warrior+ demonic gifts vs skilled Breton knight + Vampiric gift
I say at that point its the BK cause of his formidable martial training

at higher levels it gets difficult cause Chaos gifts vary in result and power.
would be rather a coin toss.
I guess biggest chances have Tzeentch ( very cool magic tricks) and Khorne ( just brute power, hope you hit him hard enough so he can´t strike back) Chosens


Really old Blood Dragons should be placed against Chaos Champions ( which any Chosen will become if he levels up), they would eat a Chosen for breakfast

Abhorash is likely an equal enemy to Acharon

[Red_Dog]

Tell that to Grimgor and I'm sure he'll remind you of his little scrap with Archon.

Grimgor iz de best! :D

Or Crom ? ;)

[Alandoril]

Well Grimgor did best Archaon in personal combat and Archaon was forced to yield, Grimgor of course was insulted and wanted to continue to fight only to have it pointed out to him that he was surrounded by Archaon's army. He was allowed to escape out of respect, but the battle was won by the Orc.

That was before the Middenheim siege I believe, or possibly after. But Valten and Huss were not involved that time.

[Red_Dog]

Eh ?
So you're saying that Grimgor and Archaon had a fight before or after the siege of Middleheim ?

Bollocks ;)
The only time Archaon and Grimgor fought was after Archaon had slapped Valten and Huss and was badly wounded.

[Stick&Move]

Blood Dragons are boring.

Give me a caustic, antisocial, insane Strigoi any day of the week.

[mcharj11]

Well Grimgor did best Archaon in personal combat and Archaon was forced to yield, Grimgor of course was insulted and wanted to continue to fight only to have it pointed out to him that he was surrounded by Archaon's army. He was allowed to escape out of respect, but the battle was won by the Orc.

That was before the Middenheim siege I believe, or possibly after. But Valten and Huss were not involved that time.

Thats Crom you're thinking of.

Grimgor attacked Archaon when he was occupied with Luthor and Valten and not in a 1v1 straight up fight. Hence Grimgor proved himself a coward, Archaon would have split him in half in a proper fight.

[tmunoz4]

Well Grimgor did best Archaon in personal combat and Archaon was forced to yield, Grimgor of course was insulted and wanted to continue to fight only to have it pointed out to him that he was surrounded by Archaon's army. He was allowed to escape out of respect, but the battle was won by the Orc.

That was before the Middenheim siege I believe, or possibly after. But Valten and Huss were not involved that time.

Wrong.

Crom and Grimgor fought when their army clashed somewhere north of high pass (Grimgor blocked to route so Chaos would need bring out a fight to get to the Empire). Neither one was able to best the other, until Grimgor noticed that his army was all but gone.

Grimgor considered this as a stain in his pride. That's why he a new army - the 'Ard Boyz, and set out to redeem himself in the eyes of Gork and Mork.

During Storm of Chaos, Grimgor "bested" Archaon by blindsiding Archaon after Archaon beat off Valten and Luthor Huss.

*Personally Archaon would rip Grimgor a new one, seeing how Crom couldn't do a thing to Archaon.

[Mincemaker]

Wrong.

Crom and Grimgor fought when their army clashed somewhere north of high pass (Grimgor blocked to route so Chaos would need bring out a fight to get to the Empire). Neither one was able to best the other, until Grimgor noticed that his army was all but gone.

Grimgor considered this as a stain in his pride. That's why he a new army - the 'Ard Boyz, and set out to redeem himself in the eyes of Gork and Mork.

During Storm of Chaos, Grimgor "bested" Archaon by blindsiding Archaon after Archaon beat off Valten and Luthor Huss.

*Personally Archaon would rip Grimgor a new one, seeing how Crom couldn't do a thing to Archaon.

This only proves that Grimgor has Brutalest Cunnin', so he is still the best, at least by greenskin standards.

[Queeble]

The venerable lord Kroak would win.

[Hairybelly]

This only proves that Grimgor has Brutalest Cunnin', so he is still the best, at least by greenskin standards.

Or that he's cowardly as a sneaky git.

Anyway, storm of chaos was retconned, so it never happened.

[Mincemaker]

Or that he's cowardly as a sneaky git.

Anyway, storm of chaos was retconned, so it never happened.

It's not retconned in the official continuity though.

And remember, Gork (or was it Mork) is a god of Brutal Cunning (or is it cunning brutality?), and that is exhibited by Grimgor, so I am sure the orcs approve of his action.

[Zzulu]

As long as you knock your opponent on his arse you are a winner amongst greenskins.

and Grimgor knocked Archaon flat on his arse . :cool:

[Nathar]

Or that he's cowardly as a sneaky git.

Anyway, storm of chaos was retconned, so it never happened.

Where is it stated that it was retconned? It just isn't in the same timeline as this game. It's actually this game which is without effect on the warhammer timeline.

[Stick&Move]

Where is it stated that it was retconned? It just isn't in the same timeline as this game. It's actually this game which is without effect on the warhammer timeline.

Agree. This game is outside the timeline.

In WFRP the new edition uses the Storm of Chaos as it's launching point in all of the sourcebooks.

[tmunoz4]

Where is it stated that it was retconned? It just isn't in the same timeline as this game. It's actually this game which is without effect on the warhammer timeline.

Check the new books, especially the new chaos one. There's no mention of the storm, and Archaon's lore there is basically he's amassing the greatest Warband ever, and the storm of chaos is upon the empire.

*PS, I know this game is in a parallel universe, or what have you. Sucks, cause I want Archaon in it. >.<