Another HAT joins in!

[Burner]

So i've been watching WAR for a year now and these forums aswell.
First i thought the bright wizards was the way to go, but after seeing and reading more and more about the famous hat people, i have now decided that this is the way..
..the right way to make all heretics suffer in Sigmar's name!!

So here i am, will be a pleasure to fight by your side brothers!

Cheers!

[Ojike]

so your going to be a witch hunter as everyone else? :) Congrats!

[Illya]

so your going to be a witch hunter as everyone else? :) Congrats!

First off, Ojike, what's the reason for snubbing someone saying he wants to be a Witch Hunter? If you take a good look at the Warhammer Armies Forum, you'll see the Empire forums have the least posts of all. Kinda weird for "the class everyone's going to play" don't you think?

And of the Empire forums, sure, the witch hunter section is the largest, but the other three combined are bigger by almost 2/3 of the size. Sure, I know it isn't very precise mathematics, but it's roughly correct. So, take your envy of a cool-looking class elsewhere. And let newcomers have a warm welcome, instead of mocking them at once.

Rereading, I realise this is aimed at a lot more than what you wrote, Ojike, so don't take it personal. You're not the only one saying "everyone's gonna be a witch hunter"

[Burner]

Hehe no problem guys! I know what you mean Ojike.. The Witch Hunter class are a popular class indeed ;-) And yes im becoming one.. so that means that you got one more hat to be aware of! :)

[Vikingkingq]

First off, Ojike, what's the reason for snubbing someone saying he wants to be a Witch Hunter? If you take a good look at the Warhammer Armies Forum, you'll see the Empire forums have the least posts of all. Kinda weird for "the class everyone's going to play" don't you think?

And of the Empire forums, sure, the witch hunter section is the largest, but the other three combined are bigger by almost 2/3 of the size. Sure, I know it isn't very precise mathematics, but it's roughly correct. So, take your envy of a cool-looking class elsewhere. And let newcomers have a warm welcome, instead of mocking them at once.

Rereading, I realise this is aimed at a lot more than what you wrote, Ojike, so don't take it personal. You're not the only one saying "everyone's gonna be a witch hunter"

Here, here. It's especially ironic given the size of the greenskin contingent on the forums.
In general, let's avoid even getting into these issues.

[Godfather]

yes lets not argue on such a stupid comment but atleast we know witch hunters are growing!! soon we will destroy chaos!

[John_Skellan]

I call Vampires!

[Epiny]

Well I shall throw my hand in the ring too then... wait gimmie that. No one touches my hat!

I've been reading alot about WAR and was up in the air between WH, or WP. (I've always been healer/support class in all other MMO's)

The witchhunter lore is just to interesting to NOT play one. Does anyone suggest any good books to read to learn more about them?

[Illya]

The Witch Hunter series, available from the Black Library.

Witch Hunter, Witch Finder and Witch Killer. All three are very excellent reading, I've read them all several times. They give a great insight into a lot of how the Order of Sigmar works, and how a Witch Hunter works.

[Orkz R Us]

congrats on your decision on being a witch hunter! it will be a pleasure destroying you on the battlefield, along with all your other brethren! WAAAAAAAAAGGH! and yes! thats a challenge :)

[Illya]

Why is it all the orcs post here?

I mean, it'd be logical for chaos followers, but orcs? Why don't you go bother the dwarves.

[John_Skellan]

The Witch Hunter series, available from the Black Library.

Witch Hunter, Witch Finder and Witch Killer. All three are very excellent reading, I've read them all several times. They give a great insight into a lot of how the Order of Sigmar works, and how a Witch Hunter works.

I read those books too, and after all the tomes I've read about WH and the things they hunt, a lot that does happen in those books dont seem exactly accurate. They're just a little bit twisted from the way that I think GW intended. I'd reccomend that you guys pick up the "Bloodline" series (Inheritance, Dominion, Retribution) by Steven Savile. It gives an awesome look at the Undead and also the perils which all Witch Hunters face. Also, i strongly reccomend you guys pick up a copy of "The Witch Hunters Handbook" nearly everything I've learned about witch hunters is covered in that little pocketbook.

GO HATS!!!

[Vikingkingq]

I read those books too, and after all the tomes I've read about WH and the things they hunt, a lot that does happen in those books dont seem exactly accurate. They're just a little bit twisted from the way that I think GW intended. I'd reccomend that you guys pick up the "Bloodline" series (Inheritance, Dominion, Retribution) by Steven Savile. It gives an awesome look at the Undead and also the perils which all Witch Hunters face. Also, i strongly reccomend you guys pick up a copy of "The Witch Hunters Handbook" nearly everything I've learned about witch hunters is covered in that little pocketbook.

GO HATS!!!

Like how? I've read both series, and it seems to me that the Witch Hunter series is a better description of Witch Hunters, especially since the protagonists of the other series are less tied into the Order of the Templars of Sigmar, and Mathias Thulmann interacts a lot with the Order in his novels.

And both of us have the Handbook.

[John_Skellan]

YaY! Handbook! You're right, he does stay far more intigrated with the rest of the order, however it just seems that the smaller things weren't quite as "dead on" Simple things like the way Skaven act and their language, and other things I noticed that have since slipped my mind due to their meagerness and meaninglessness. I thought that the way Mathias Thullman was portrayed was too much of an Inquisitor Oktar-like charachter (from the Eisenhorn series) and thats just way to abnormal. I've always seen witch hunters as more Eisenhorn-like characters, willing to bend the rules to get done what needs to be done. He was almost too pious for his own good. Although maybe thats just my 40k side stepping into the picture, but still I think its pretty relevant all the same.

[bio flood]

i will light your hat a blaze then pee on it till the fire goes out:twisted:

[Vikingkingq]

YaY! Handbook! You're right, he does stay far more intigrated with the rest of the order, however it just seems that the smaller things weren't quite as "dead on" Simple things like the way Skaven act and their language, and other things I noticed that have since slipped my mind due to their meagerness and meaninglessness. I thought that the way Mathias Thullman was portrayed was too much of an Inquisitor Oktar-like charachter (from the Eisenhorn series) and thats just way to abnormal. I've always seen witch hunters as more Eisenhorn-like characters, willing to bend the rules to get done what needs to be done. He was almost too pious for his own good. Although maybe thats just my 40k side stepping into the picture, but still I think its pretty relevant all the same.

Right. But the point of the Order, like the Inquisition, is that people differ, both in terms of character and in terms of politics. Thulmann is essentially a moderate - a man of deep faith who abhors the use of magic to fight heresy, but who abjures the mindless fanatacism of Peder Hausner. Now, would he go down the road of an Eisenhorn? Possibly, and the end of the third book seems to point in that direction - the theme of "wanting things both ways," his willingness to cut a deal with Weichs, his use of skaven tech and Weich's alchemy to slay demons, etc. But at the moment, he's still teetering on that edge, and Silja might help him walk away from it, or his dead family might push him over.

[John_Skellan]

Right. But the point of the Order, like the Inquisition, is that people differ, both in terms of character and in terms of politics. Thulmann is essentially a moderate - a man of deep faith who abhors the use of magic to fight heresy, but who abjures the mindless fanatacism of Peder Hausner. Now, would he go down the road of an Eisenhorn? Possibly, and the end of the third book seems to point in that direction - the theme of "wanting things both ways," his willingness to cut a deal with Weichs, his use of skaven tech and Weich's alchemy to slay demons, etc. But at the moment, he's still teetering on that edge, and Silja might help him walk away from it, or his dead family might push him over.

RIght, and what I was saying was not that Mathias Thullman was flawed, it was that the dude who rote him up seemed to have a different vision then GW. No offense, just many things seemed out of whack, and if I can see that, that may not be a good thing.

[Vikingkingq]

RIght, and what I was saying was not that Mathias Thullman was flawed, it was that the dude who rote him up seemed to have a different vision then GW. No offense, just many things seemed out of whack, and if I can see that, that may not be a good thing.

Oh come on. How do you figure that a GW-approved authors - one of their star authors - is seeing things differently? So far all you've mentioned is that Thulmann is a man of faith, and how is that off from the image of a Witch Hunter?

[Illya]

i will light your hat a blaze then pee on it till the fire goes out:twisted:

Thanks for your contribution. The exit is that way.

As for the Witch Hunter books, I'm going to have to side with Vikingkingq. Not to be mean, JS, but you did think something was called the Temple of the Inquisitor or so. What is you're seeing that's so off in the books?

I'm simply asking for several concrete examples of things you've spotted in the books, and thought: Hey! That's not right!

Write them down, and we'll discuss it. Unlike most people, I'm open for discussion.

[Findical]

Thanks for your contribution. The exit is that way.

As for the Witch Hunter books, I'm going to have to side with Vikingkingq. Not to be mean, JS, but you did think something was called the Temple of the Inquisitor or so. What is you're seeing that's so off in the books?

I'm simply asking for several concrete examples of things you've spotted in the books, and thought: Hey! That's not right!

Write them down, and we'll discuss it. Unlike most people, I'm open for discussion.

Illya like Renascor Illya?

[Illya]

Who?

Illya as in Illya Mikhailov, Lord of the Inquisition. Copyrighted by me.

[Findical]

Who?

Illya as in Illya Mikhailov, Lord of the Inquisition. Copyrighted by me.

Haha I thought you might have been a guild leader I had from WoW.

[John_Skellan]

Pg 60 (Concerning Sibbechai) - "'First we find a safe place to hide my resting place' the necrarch hissed 'I would not want to secure the treasure after so many centuries only to be destroyed by the rising sun'"

As many of you have probably read at least bits and pieces of vampires, or perhaps even several different novels and even the army book, you'll know that after a certain period of time, vampires reach a level of power at which the sun cannot affect their bodies in any way. I realise that Sibbechai was attempting to fool his necromantic follower with his feign of needing blood, although a Necrarch would never be so weak, nor so prideless to admit to a follower, that he would fear the rays of the sun could ever harm him. Being a vampire that has been around for centuries, and also a necrarch at that, I have no doubt in my mind that Sibbechai wouuld be able to survive living in the deserts of Khemri naked on top of a rock for years on end. It wouuld take quite a lot to destroy him by the suns rays. Also, if it became too difficult for him to resist the suns rays, many of his kind, and I expect him as well, have the power to call winds and simply blow overcast over the city. Problem solved.

Pg 61 (Concerning Captain Meisser) - "A man like Meisser should never have risen to the rank of Witch Hunter Captain. It was a hurried posting, whereby a heretic had been replaced by a lord protector who had himself been a heretic... Indeed, posting a bullying, incompetent and ineffectual like Meisser to such an important rank in one of the Empires larger cities was hardly the decision that a capable lord protector would make."

We are not the empire's army that has to political officers and aristocratical officers constantly replacing trained and experienced officers with no ties to money or infuence, we are the witch hunters. That means, in order appoint such a man, he would either have had to have been the best choice for the city itself, or the order as a whole, elsewise why on earth would he have been appointed to begin with? It seems almost too Imperium-ish.

Pg 73 (Concerning the Necrarchs as a whole) - "So strong was the hate of life within the Necrarchs that the creatures were incapable of entering any structure which man made his home

I have never heard any fluff about this. It looks like the author took this from Dracula novels or something, as I havennt read anything about this (if someone has, can they reference me to it, I'd like to know about this one. Don't count it if it is true or there is a reference to this in GW or Warhammer Fluff.)

Pg 73 (Concerning Necrarchs as a whole) - "Some said the curse had been placed upon the vampiric sorcerors by the gods themselves, that the Necrarchs might be thwarted in their diseased schemes. Others held that the power that bound them came from a far fouler source - the accursed one, the supreme Necromancer, Nagash the Black, that his undying slaves might never again linger among the living. That no seed of sympathy might somehow take root within the putrid remnants of their hearts.

1. The Vampires are forsaken by whatever gods they originally worshipped, and the curse they were given was undeath and the curse to constantly seek blood (which the Necrarchs, and some Blood Dragons have escaped) Look at Jerek Von Carstein for example. Even though he was the white wolf, the fact that he was undead still existed, since he was harmed by Kallad's Pendant when it touched him. Necrarchs still require blood to exist in the mortal realm as something more than ethereal, but they can survive for hundreds of years without tasting a drop before withering away into nothing (or a shade of their former selves).

2. Nagash has nothing to do with the Vampires as a whole. Neferata was the true mother of vampires, and she was the one that discovered the means by which to escape death through the fountain of eternal life. Nagash failed in that way, and he is kept alive through his own dark sorcerery and incantations, as even the fountain of eternal life would not have been able to sustain him from becoming a wight after some 5,000 years since his induction into the ever living. W'soran, the father of Necrarchs, was not associated in any way with nagash. He pilfered some of the evil necromancers tomes, and used them to gain the power he desired, and discover how to escape the blood curse. The same can be said for Mannfred Von Carstein, although he never figured out how to escape the blood curse, as he used the tome to gain the power of his sire (Vlad) instead of making himself more powerful.

3. I still dont know about the "crossing the threshold" part, and whether or not it takes root in Warhammer Fantasy. I'd have to see an example in a book published by Games Workshop (not the black library). If it does indeed exist, then there is also another problem here. In Normal Vampire history (I know, I have to sound completely emo for knowing all this stuff) in order for a vampire to enter a home of the living, he (or she) has to be invited into the home by someone who lives inside of it, not just someone who is inside at the time. Otherwise, in Van Helsing, all Dracula would have had to do was send Igor down to the village, and run into each home, inviting him inside.

Pg 81 (Regardinig the winds of magic and Witch Hunters) - "The stench of magic was in the air, the noxious taint of unnatural power. Even the most untutored of men could have sensed it.

Being a long time veteran of Warhammer, and having played Tzeentch Hordes of Chaos and Khorne Hordes of Chaos, I have had a lot of time to learn about the winds of magic. All wizards draw their power from one college of magic or another. The different colleges of magic are divided into specific lores : The Lore of Fire (Bright Wizards) , The Lore of Metal, The Lore of Shadow, The Lore of Beasts, The Lore of Heavens, The Lore of Light, The Lore of Life, and The Lore of Death. Now, The Lore of Death, or Shyish as it is known amongst magic users, is the most powerful (from a fluffy standpoint) and most deadly of all the Magics. This is the wind that Necromancers, Cultists of the Ruinous Powers, and Magi of the Ruinouus powers themselves call upon in order to create the many divisions of it. Those divisions are The Lore of Knowledge (Tzeentch), The Lore of Pestilence (Nurgle), The Lore of Pleasure, or Pleasurable Pain, (Slaanesh), and Necromancy. With that out of the way, I now have to explain one crucial element. When Thulmann describes being able to "smell" the taint of magic, he has ultimately signed his own death warrant, for there is a reason that the Witch Hunters train mastiffs to scent magic. When I said every magic user calls upon the winds (or incantations as far as the Tomb Kings, or food as far as the Ogres, are concerned) I meant that EVERY magic user has touched them. Never in a Witch Hunters training is he "tutored" to smell magic, and if someone is able to smell magic on the wind, he is either an extremely potent magic user, or he is tainted by chaos. Nearly everyone can be affected by, or have come into cantact with the winds of magic, which I named off earlier, but normally they cant distinguish them from normal winds. It takes an extremely acute sensed person to just feel them. But to be able to scent them from far away is extremely close to being a heretic. This instance almost makes me wonder if it was a simple typo, as its easy to mistake smell from touch, or if it was intended. Ah well.

Pg 88 (Concerning Witch Hunters and their Equipment) - "He could practically read Meissers mind - silver bullets were an expensive piece of ostentation, why arm his men in so costly a fashion when the money might be better spent buying favours at court. "

If that doesnt seem heretical to purposely not arm those witch hunters under your command with the tools necesarry for them to hunt those touched by the ruinous powers, or untouched by life itself, especially after an encounter with an undead minion too recently, I'm not too sure what is. I may have too much faith in the order itself, althouugh i dont think that buying favours at court would be apt, or otherwise acceptable, means to use the funds from the order itself unless in the pursuit of swaying the decision of their members to move against a tainted individual or group.

Those are a good start, they're from Witch Finder (which is the only book from the series I can find in my bookcase right now, as I loaned the first one to my neighbor whos in 5th grade a week ago, and hes trying to get trough the 3rd chapter still, and the third I just cant find.) Also, Black Library is a GW approved publishing company, run by GW itself. It doesnt mean that everything is exactly correct, only that it is believable standards. Kind of like with painting. There is Display standards (Army books, Rule books, Campaign books, Chapter Approved, Codecies, etc.) and then there's table-top, or gaming, standards (Black Library Publications) The Display standard looks a lot better, took a lot more time to do, way more before thought, and tends to be a far more polished finished product. The same can be said for Games Workshop Books VS. Black Library Books

Oh yeah, Illya, The guy who first told me that the Temple of the Inquisitor was where the Witch Hunters resided is still trying to tell me that, and even when I showed him the witch hunters handbook, he swears that he has inside knowledge that the handbook is fake. Thanks for helping me out with that, I cant stand how much this guy lies.

[Vikingkingq]

Pg 60 (Concerning Sibbechai) - "'First we find a safe place to hide my resting place' the necrarch hissed 'I would not want to secure the treasure after so many centuries only to be destroyed by the rising sun'"

As many of you have probably read at least bits and pieces of vampires, or perhaps even several different novels and even the army book, you'll know that after a certain period of time, vampires reach a level of power at which the sun cannot affect their bodies in any way. I realise that Sibbechai was attempting to fool his necromantic follower with his feign of needing blood, although a Necrarch would never be so weak, nor so prideless to admit to a follower, that he would fear the rays of the sun could ever harm him. Being a vampire that has been around for centuries, and also a necrarch at that, I have no doubt in my mind that Sibbechai wouuld be able to survive living in the deserts of Khemri naked on top of a rock for years on end. It wouuld take quite a lot to destroy him by the suns rays. Also, if it became too difficult for him to resist the suns rays, many of his kind, and I expect him as well, have the power to call winds and simply blow overcast over the city. Problem solved.

There are several possibilities - One, Sibbechai is not as powerful a Necrarch as he should be. After all, he spent a lot of time being hunted and tortured by his brother, and most importantly, he had lost his spellbook for centuries. Thus, the sun might have actually been able to kill him. Two, Sibbechai knew that the sun couldn't kill him, but it would have weakened him to the point where the necromancer would have been more of a threat to him. Three, Sibbechai knew that the sun wouldn't hurt him, but he wanted to make the necromancer his dogsbody for a bit longer, 'cause he's a like that.


Pg 61 (Concerning Captain Meisser) - "A man like Meisser should never have risen to the rank of Witch Hunter Captain. It was a hurried posting, whereby a heretic had been replaced by a lord protector who had himself been a heretic... Indeed, posting a bullying, incompetent and ineffectual like Meisser to such an important rank in one of the Empires larger cities was hardly the decision that a capable lord protector would make."

We are not the empire's army that has to political officers and aristocratical officers constantly replacing trained and experienced officers with no ties to money or infuence, we are the witch hunters. That means, in order appoint such a man, he would either have had to have been the best choice for the city itself, or the order as a whole, elsewise why on earth would he have been appointed to begin with? It seems almost too Imperium-ish.


See, here's where you're wrong. The Order of the Templars of Sigmar is mostly independent, but it still answers to both the Church and State. Which means that politics does play a role in the appointment of Lord Protector, who in turn appoints the other officers of the Order. This quote moreover gives you the rationale for how Miessner came to power: Lord Protector Thaddeus Gamow, who's described in the Witch Hunter's Handbook as something of a Radical (he supports the use of the Doxologies for example), had appointed someone else to the position - when Gamow was pulled down for heresy, so were his appointees. This has caused a certain amount of political turmoil, as the Order deals with the new administrative setup. This turmoil gives people like Meissner, who probably had been some sort of administrative secretary to the previous Captain, opportunities they wouldn't have had under more unified leadership.


Pg 73 (Concerning the Necrarchs as a whole) - "So strong was the hate of life within the Necrarchs that the creatures were incapable of entering any structure which man made his home

I have never heard any fluff about this. It looks like the author took this from Dracula novels or something, as I havennt read anything about this (if someone has, can they reference me to it, I'd like to know about this one. Don't count it if it is true or there is a reference to this in GW or Warhammer Fluff.)


I can't say for certain, but I'm fairly sure this is the case in other GW novels, I think Vampireslayer has the same setup. It's a fairly classic concept to use, and it works quite well in the series - setting up the betrayal of Anton Klausner, the cat-and-mouse game between the necromancer and the necrarch, etc.


Pg 73 (Concerning Necrarchs as a whole) - "Some said the curse had been placed upon the vampiric sorcerors by the gods themselves, that the Necrarchs might be thwarted in their diseased schemes. Others held that the power that bound them came from a far fouler source - the accursed one, the supreme Necromancer, Nagash the Black, that his undying slaves might never again linger among the living. That no seed of sympathy might somehow take root within the putrid remnants of their hearts.

1. The Vampires are forsaken by whatever gods they originally worshipped, and the curse they were given was undeath and the curse to constantly seek blood (which the Necrarchs, and some Blood Dragons have escaped) Look at Jerek Von Carstein for example. Even though he was the white wolf, the fact that he was undead still existed, since he was harmed by Kallad's Pendant when it touched him. Necrarchs still require blood to exist in the mortal realm as something more than ethereal, but they can survive for hundreds of years without tasting a drop before withering away into nothing (or a shade of their former selves).

2. Nagash has nothing to do with the Vampires as a whole. Neferata was the true mother of vampires, and she was the one that discovered the means by which to escape death through the fountain of eternal life. Nagash failed in that way, and he is kept alive through his own dark sorcerery and incantations, as even the fountain of eternal life would not have been able to sustain him from becoming a wight after some 5,000 years since his induction into the ever living. W'soran, the father of Necrarchs, was not associated in any way with nagash. He pilfered some of the evil necromancers tomes, and used them to gain the power he desired, and discover how to escape the blood curse. The same can be said for Mannfred Von Carstein, although he never figured out how to escape the blood curse, as he used the tome to gain the power of his sire (Vlad) instead of making himself more powerful.

3. I still dont know about the "crossing the threshold" part, and whether or not it takes root in Warhammer Fantasy. I'd have to see an example in a book published by Games Workshop (not the black library). If it does indeed exist, then there is also another problem here. In Normal Vampire history (I know, I have to sound completely emo for knowing all this stuff) in order for a vampire to enter a home of the living, he (or she) has to be invited into the home by someone who lives inside of it, not just someone who is inside at the time. Otherwise, in Van Helsing, all Dracula would have had to do was send Igor down to the village, and run into each home, inviting him inside.


First of all, that quote is a character from the world of Warhammer speculating about vampires. It makes perfect sense that they wouldn't have perfect information, that much of it would be inaccurate folklore. Second, Nagash had a HUGE amount to do with the vampires - Nefarata trained under his chief disciple W'soran, and Nagash himself ruled the Vampires with an iron will for thousands of years before the dominion was broken. Von Carstein's ring was Nagash's ring for god's sake. Read the Liber Necris.


Pg 81 (Regardinig the winds of magic and Witch Hunters) - "The stench of magic was in the air, the noxious taint of unnatural power. Even the most untutored of men could have sensed it.

Being a long time veteran of Warhammer, and having played Tzeentch Hordes of Chaos and Khorne Hordes of Chaos, I have had a lot of time to learn about the winds of magic. All wizards draw their power from one college of magic or another. The different colleges of magic are divided into specific lores : The Lore of Fire (Bright Wizards) , The Lore of Metal, The Lore of Shadow, The Lore of Beasts, The Lore of Heavens, The Lore of Light, The Lore of Life, and The Lore of Death. Now, The Lore of Death, or Shyish as it is known amongst magic users, is the most powerful (from a fluffy standpoint) and most deadly of all the Magics. This is the wind that Necromancers, Cultists of the Ruinous Powers, and Magi of the Ruinouus powers themselves call upon in order to create the many divisions of it. Those divisions are The Lore of Knowledge (Tzeentch), The Lore of Pestilence (Nurgle), The Lore of Pleasure, or Pleasurable Pain, (Slaanesh), and Necromancy. With that out of the way, I now have to explain one crucial element. When Thulmann describes being able to "smell" the taint of magic, he has ultimately signed his own death warrant, for there is a reason that the Witch Hunters train mastiffs to scent magic. When I said every magic user calls upon the winds (or incantations as far as the Tomb Kings, or food as far as the Ogres, are concerned) I meant that EVERY magic user has touched them. Never in a Witch Hunters training is he "tutored" to smell magic, and if someone is able to smell magic on the wind, he is either an extremely potent magic user, or he is tainted by chaos. Nearly everyone can be affected by, or have come into cantact with the winds of magic, which I named off earlier, but normally they cant distinguish them from normal winds. It takes an extremely acute sensed person to just feel them. But to be able to scent them from far away is extremely close to being a heretic. This instance almost makes me wonder if it was a simple typo, as its easy to mistake smell from touch, or if it was intended. Ah well.

One, it could be a metaphor rather than an actual sensation. Two, how do you know if Witch Hunters don't train to smell magic? After all, the Witch Hunter's Handbook mentions Seven Rituals of Exaltation and Seven Mysteries that Witch Hunters pass through as they gain seniority, but doesn't describe what they are. It would be perfectly logical for the ability to "smell" Witches to be a key part of the Mysteries, given how useful that would be for their work. Third, it's not smelling from a distance, he's in the wizard's house. Fourth, what Werner is describing in that paragraph is not being able to see the Winds of Magic directly, but the kind of animal sixth sense that can sense disturbances in the antural order.


Pg 88 (Concerning Witch Hunters and their Equipment) - "He could practically read Meissers mind - silver bullets were an expensive piece of ostentation, why arm his men in so costly a fashion when the money might be better spent buying favours at court. "

If that doesnt seem heretical to purposely not arm those witch hunters under your command with the tools necesarry for them to hunt those touched by the ruinous powers, or untouched by life itself, especially after an encounter with an undead minion too recently, I'm not too sure what is. I may have too much faith in the order itself, althouugh i dont think that buying favours at court would be apt, or otherwise acceptable, means to use the funds from the order itself unless in the pursuit of swaying the decision of their members to move against a tainted individual or group.


That's what makes Meissner a BAD Witch Hunter. He's supposed to be the exception to the rule, a corrupt and petty bureaucrat. Throughout the series, he's shown to be ignorant of the occult lore of the Order, incapable of running even the most basic of investigations, and something of a coward in battle. Really, his purpose is to serve as a foil for Thulmann, who is a much more competant Witch Hunter.

[Shifte]

As many of you have probably read at least bits and pieces of vampires, or perhaps even several different novels and even the army book, you'll know that after a certain period of time, vampires reach a level of power at which the sun cannot affect their bodies in any way.


Thats not quite true. It is a will-power thing. A weak vampire can wlak in the sun, if it truly believes it can. For example, Genevieve. Or, Von Carstein Trilogy.


I realise that Sibbechai was attempting to fool his necromantic follower with his feign of needing blood, although a Necrarch would never be so weak, nor so prideless to admit to a follower, that he would fear the rays of the sun could ever harm him. Being a vampire that has been around for centuries, and also a necrarch at that, I have no doubt in my mind that Sibbechai wouuld be able to survive living in the deserts of Khemri naked on top of a rock for years on end.

Thats true. Necrarchs can go for years without feeding, it is the reason they look so grotesque.


It wouuld take quite a lot to destroy him by the suns rays. Also, if it became too difficult for him to resist the suns rays, many of his kind, and I expect him as well, have the power to call winds and simply blow overcast over the city. Problem solved.


This is a Von Carstein Power- most Necrarchs cannot do such a thing.




Pg 73 (Concerning the Necrarchs as a whole) - "So strong was the hate of life within the Necrarchs that the creatures were incapable of entering any structure which man made his home

I have never heard any fluff about this. It looks like the author took this from Dracula novels or something, as I havennt read anything about this (if someone has, can they reference me to it, I'd like to know about this one. Don't count it if it is true or there is a reference to this in GW or Warhammer Fluff.)




That is true lore. Read Nights Dark Masters, it is a Vampire source-book for Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. Necrarchs cannot enter a home without first being invited.



Pg 73 (Concerning Necrarchs as a whole) - "Some said the curse had been placed upon the vampiric sorcerors by the gods themselves, that the Necrarchs might be thwarted in their diseased schemes. Others held that the power that bound them came from a far fouler source - the accursed one, the supreme Necromancer, Nagash the Black, that his undying slaves might never again linger among the living. That no seed of sympathy might somehow take root within the putrid remnants of their hearts.

1. The Vampires are forsaken by whatever gods they originally worshipped, and the curse they were given was undeath and the curse to constantly seek blood (which the Necrarchs, and some Blood Dragons have escaped) Look at Jerek Von Carstein for example. Even though he was the white wolf, the fact that he was undead still existed, since he was harmed by Kallad's Pendant when it touched him. Necrarchs still require blood to exist in the mortal realm as something more than ethereal, but they can survive for hundreds of years without tasting a drop before withering away into nothing (or a shade of their former selves).


1) Not true. Vampires are not forsaken by them. Jerek Von Carstein, to take your example, wa salso NOT harmed by the flame of Ulric- which only those exhakted by Ulric could touch without being burned.


2. Nagash has nothing to do with the Vampires as a whole. Neferata was the true mother of vampires, and she was the one that discovered the means by which to escape death through the fountain of eternal life. Nagash failed in that way, and he is kept alive through his own dark sorcerery and incantations, as even the fountain of eternal life would not have been able to sustain him from becoming a wight after some 5,000 years since his induction into the ever living. W'soran, the father of Necrarchs, was not associated in any way with nagash. He pilfered some of the evil necromancers tomes, and used them to gain the power he desired, and discover how to escape the blood curse. The same can be said for Mannfred Von Carstein, although he never figured out how to escape the blood curse, as he used the tome to gain the power of his sire (Vlad) instead of making himself more powerful.


Not true. When the Vampires fled Lhamia after its destruction- they fled to Nagash. Nefferata used Nagashes designed to create the elixir of life. The Vampires became Nagash's generals, and Vlad (aka Vasanesh) his 2nd in command. Then Vlad found a way to break Nagash's hold on them, which was through the Von Carstein ring. W'Soran was most loyal to Nagash, and managed to stop many of his tombs being burned. He did not plunder the tombs- he was Nagash's apprentice to a large extent.



3. I still dont know about the "crossing the threshold" part, and whether or not it takes root in Warhammer Fantasy. I'd have to see an example in a book published by Games Workshop (not the black library). If it does indeed exist, then there is also another problem here. In Normal Vampire history (I know, I have to sound completely emo for knowing all this stuff) in order for a vampire to enter a home of the living, he (or she) has to be invited into the home by someone who lives inside of it, not just someone who is inside at the time. Otherwise, in Van Helsing, all Dracula would have had to do was send Igor down to the village, and run into each home, inviting him inside.


As I siad before, its true lore. Only effects Necrarchs. Nagash placed this curse on them to ensure they would not betray him.



Pg 88 (Concerning Witch Hunters and their Equipment) - "He could practically read Meissers mind - silver bullets were an expensive piece of ostentation, why arm his men in so costly a fashion when the money might be better spent buying favours at court. "

If that doesnt seem heretical to purposely not arm those witch hunters under your command with the tools necesarry for them to hunt those touched by the ruinous powers, or untouched by life itself, especially after an encounter with an undead minion too recently, I'm not too sure what is. I may have too much faith in the order itself, althouugh i dont think that buying favours at court would be apt, or otherwise acceptable, means to use the funds from the order itself unless in the pursuit of swaying the decision of their members to move against a tainted individual or group.


Perhaps, but not all witch Hunters are uncorruptable. Not all are strong minded. Many will take bribes, for example. (Source: Tomb of corruption).


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I answered all of your Vampire questions, I am a Vampire Lore Fan you see, most of your answers can be found in "Nights Dark Masters" which is a resource for Vampire Roleplaying in wfrp. The book contains.. well.. practically EVERYTHING about Vampires in Warhammer. Great read.

[Arijharn]

Incidentally, I'm kinda stuck. I really really want to play a Chosen a lot, and I realy really want to play a Witch Hunter a lot as well!

Decisions, Decisions!