A view on the choppa

[Dying]

Hello there fellow greenskins!

I have been trolling these boards for quite a while now and decided to finally register and say hi with a post illustrating my views on the "choppa".

I have the following MMO experience:

Daoc ( RR3 Highlander armsman , RR4 Highlander Minstrel, RR6 ML10 Celt Warden, RR5 ML10 Celt Blademaster )

WoW ( Knight Captain 61 Nelf Druid, Knight Captain 60 Gnome Rogue, Sergeant 64 Human Mage, 70 Dranei Shaman ) PvE wise I have done up to Naxx ( 2 bosses only :( ) and Karazhan in TBC.

I'd also like to add that atm WoW no longer intrests me because the PvE has become rather boring and tiresome ( used to be fun with 40 people ). I'm aiming to go back to my roots in WAR eventually ( sweet mythic pvp ).

Why am I spamming all this info towards you that is seemingly useless at first?
Because it is important you understand my MMO background and my experience with DPS classes.

What is the Choppa according to me?

I think of the Choppa as a light dual wielding tank.

With light I mean his armor is going to be near the chainmail department but definetely not leather because it does not seem fit at all for a big orc to be wearing something developed for quick, nimble movement. They are after all , huge towering armored slaughtering machines :D

With dual wielding I obviously mean the two choppa's :). In all the other games I've played dual wielding ( Blademaster & Rogue ) there have always been some things the same, some things different. For example the "offhand" weapon always hitted for less damage and a general increase in "missing" was noted if there was not enough +hit or agility present. I'm hoping in WAR the Choppa's are not so much influenced by a high missrate due to a lacking stat in their gear build and that they have some nifty "reactive offhand" moves to compensate the dull damage their offhand does.

What do I mean with a "reactive offhand" move? Well , say you parry with your mainhand , in the few seconds after that you have a chance to swing your offhand choppa directly at the neck of your opponent who is still recovering from the blow and thereby you do more damage ( instantly ) then you would normally do with an offhand blow. Or you could "evade" or "dodge" an attack and with some kind of a turn around move you could strike your offhand choppa at the opponents waste , stunning them for some seconds, not doing increased damage but having the stun on. These reactive moves would be sweet but it's just some idea's I have atm.

"Berserker Rage" : There is not much I can say about this , i'm just hoping the "proc rate" isn't to unbalanced ( it can proc 3x in one fight but won't proc then for half an hour). I'm also hoping the Berserker Rage also provides a limited form of CC immunity ( enemy saving his "stuns" and "disorient" moves for when you hit zerker must suck ).
Basically , i'm gonna wait & see how good / bad the rage is.

PvE wise : Well the Choppa's role would be DPS ofc but in case of an emergency the Choppa has a taunt ability to get a mob of a healer for example or even try to tank in a small group when there is not a BLORC available. The Choppa doesn't bring much else to a group but raw damage and limited offtanking. I'm just hoping "threat" won't be as much as a problem.

PvP wise : The Choppa's favorite occupation , killing live targets. Choppa's imo have the tools needed for some solo killing ( tactic to reduce ranged dmg, sprint, small stun ) but won't live very long against multiple targets ( as expected ). I also believe that the Choppa is best used in combination with a SH or BLORC to snare/slow or stun the target for him to really land his damage. Remember, you might hit like a truck in PvE , it doesn't matter if you can't reach your target in PvP. I'll wait out and see how this balances out. ( 3 Engineers and 1 Runepriest could potentially slow/nuke your entire melee group to bits before you even get close )

Final Thoughts : I'm just hoping itemisation isn't that hard to come by. Ofcourse there should be some really awesome armor and choppa's only attainable trough high endgame PvE and PvP but I'd really hate to farm kills/"rep" for days on end just to get that "imba" item that makes or breaks your char.

And PS , lets hope the game comes out quick ;)

Greetings and thanks for your attention

[Atwa]

nice writing, i totally agree with everything you wrote.

what i would want to see that they add to the choppa is an Intercept ability, because the class as it is now seems to be very easy kited, should look something like

* Intercept
* Intercept your enemy stunning them for 2 seconds.
* 60 AP
* 15-55 feet

that would really add something against the ranged classes in pvp

[Vidrak]

Good post (and a first one at that :)), just a few comments.

About the Berzerk ability. I don't know if it is proc'd. I *thought* it was a triggered ability. Personally, I think it would be awesome if it was based on damage taken/dished out, critical hits done, as well as battle performance. I don't like the "random proc", or "triggered ability" as much.

Say, if you take over 25% of your hp in damage in under 5 seconds (this would have to be played with), you would turn berserk. Say it starts some sort of timer, then lets say you crit 3 times in a row, so it would tack on more time to the berserk timer. Then say you drop to 25% total hp, this would turn you berserk. Say, you kill (finsihing blow) 3 characters in a row, you would go berzerk.

Personally, I hope the Choppa is basically unstoppable, except by killing him through pure damage, when you are 25% hp and below (or berserking at all). There is just something wrong when you get rooted/slept/snared/stunned/knocked down when you are a total twirling, bloodletting, whirlwind of blades. I have high hopes for the Choppa and plan to play one on release (though the Black Orc looks quite fun as well).

Welcome to the boards :)

[Dying]

Some intercept ability in the form of a jump would be cool, let's say a 1-2 second cast ( the Choppa gathers his strength and rage ) and then he jumps at his target , landing on it , thereby stunning it for a second or two. This would ofc have a smaller range but would be in par with WAR mechanics. The ability could be called :

* Stomp 'em gud!
* Jump towards your enemy and land on them, thereby stunning the target for 2 seconds.
* 120 AP ( high cost needed ) + ( 1 second cast time )
* 15-45 feet

About the berserking, I think an uncontrolled form would be "best" seeing as how this would fit best into WAR ( orcs are fierce , bloodlusted creatures and choppa's especially).
However I believe "taking" damage should not so much trigger the enrage ( if a BLORC is tanking a boss theres no way you're gonna take enough dmg to enrage , maybe from aoe stuff but that's it ) but the damage you deal should ( there's nothing like landing a crit on a caster and going into an uncontrollable frenzy ).

Also a reason i'd like to see berserking uncontrolled is to prevent players from "whining". I can already see : " omfg , some zerker 10 levels below me killed me because he enraged and out dpsed me ".

All in all I think we'll have to wait how damage inflicted and damage taken add to the "rage" pool and how this "rage pool" triggers the berserking.

[LookinGreen]

You will also get the whines of "OMG your so lcuky you procced bserk like 4 times". The whining is unavoidable.

My view is that you should beserk after a certain morale is reached but it doesnt cost moral while beserked so say if you keep you moral above 20-30% you are beserked

[Atwa]

Some intercept ability in the form of a jump would be cool, let's say a 1-2 second cast ( the Choppa gathers his strength and rage ) and then he jumps at his target , landing on it , thereby stunning it for a second or two. This would ofc have a smaller range but would be in par with WAR mechanics. The ability could be called :

* Stomp 'em gud!
* Jump towards your enemy and land on them, thereby stunning the target for 2 seconds.
* 120 AP ( high cost needed ) + ( 1 second cast time )
* 15-45 feet

About the berserking, I think an uncontrolled form would be "best" seeing as how this would fit best into WAR ( orcs are fierce , bloodlusted creatures and choppa's especially).
However I believe "taking" damage should not so much trigger the enrage ( if a BLORC is tanking a boss theres no way you're gonna take enough dmg to enrage , maybe from aoe stuff but that's it ) but the damage you deal should ( there's nothing like landing a crit on a caster and going into an uncontrollable frenzy ).

Also a reason i'd like to see berserking uncontrolled is to prevent players from "whining". I can already see : " omfg , some zerker 10 levels below me killed me because he enraged and out dpsed me ".

All in all I think we'll have to wait how damage inflicted and damage taken add to the "rage" pool and how this "rage pool" triggers the berserking.

sounds like a cool ability

about the berserking ability. i think it is possible that it works hit x amount of crits , or get critted x amount of times. Can be compared to the Enrage ability that warriors have in WoW(damnit hate to compare things to wow, for you that dosent play wow: Gives you a 25% melee damage bonus for 12 sec up to a maximum of 12 swings after being the victim of a critical strike.) Its not impossible that it will work in some way like that

[Vidrak]

I think the only ability I liked in WoW was the intercept/charge warriors had. I would like something like this, but I also think the "Choppa Hurl" and "Stuntie Smash" abilities we have will work well for this. One throws your choppa and snares/slows the enemy for a period of time. And the stuntie smash is a trample/knockdown/stun on the enemy.

And yes, that is what I was aiming at with my berserking comment. I would like it to be an uncontrollable thing (but fairly common, like 1-2times per fight at least) like orcs are.

You take a lot of damage fast, you berserk.
You crit a lot (or do a lot of damage), you berserk.
You bring down a few enemies, you berserk.
You drop low on hitpoints, you berserk.

Just some ideas, while not useful in EVERY situation, I think they could help us out in many situations. Like, in PvE, you will not be taking damage, but doing lots of damage. In PvP, you will probably be taking lots of damage (while you are running up to the target) then doing damage after. I fully expect to be pummeled HARD in PvP, being a hard hitting melee DPS class, and I think we will have to have a way to survive that hit so we can actually fight something before we go down.

[Dying]

I like that idea of Morale generation influencing berserking if it were not for one thing.

Every other class in the game has it's morale available to use specific spells or abilities , if we are affected by Morale to gain "berserking" then we are disadvantaged as we need to "save" Morale to gain the Zerk and are not able to gather Morale to use our abilities like another class can without any consequence for their character.

Yes with Morale if : The "zerker state" lasts a good amount of time and thereby giving us time to gain Morale to use abilities and not be "inclined" to save Morale while IN "zerker stance" to trigger it again when we come OUT.

No with Morale if : The "zerker state" costs Morale to keep up and we can not use any other Morale abilities because otherwise we'd go out of "zerker state".

Berserking is a natural part of a Choppa and we should not need to pay a special price to gain this ability other then shed an enemy's blood :)

[LookinGreen]

I was thinking say at 20% you become besekr permanently until you go below 20% but wouldn't cost morale. I think it just adds to the you miust choose between certain skills for certain situations tpe thing. Like is beserk more important than this using this skill.

So you would be "inclined" to save morale but it wouldn't cost you anything. Of course you could just tweak this idea.

[Vidrak]

I was thinking say at 20% you become besekr permanently until you go below 20% but wouldn't cost morale. I think it just adds to the you miust choose between certain skills for certain situations tpe thing. Like is beserk more important than this using this skill.

So you would be "inclined" to save morale but it wouldn't cost you anything. Of course you could just tweak this idea.
Well, as Dying said, that is the problem. Other classes don't even have to think about Morale in this way, and they will be able to use morale more than the Choppa will if we depend on it for berserking abilities. Choppa's would probably never use the 80% or 100% morale abilities if we were that dependent on it. Which is why I hope they add a berserk bar or something like many of the other classes have (grudge and WAAAGH! bars).

The only way it would be fair, is if beserking was VERY powerful, or if we gained morale faster than other classes. Personally, I think basing a class specific skill on morale is a bad idea. Morale was supposed to be an added bonus, I thought. If it is based totally on morale, then we will be hurt by other players doing badly ... just doesn't seem like a way to implement a class defining ability like a berserk frenzy.

[Dying]

That ofcourse depends on how good "berserk" is , is it worth the Morale or not, if it is considerable ( good melee dps boost ) then DPS will compensate for the other abilities.

It doesn't feel right to me tho.... A good frenzy should be inspired by either eating psycho active drugs ( mushrooms for orcs :p ) or by seeing blood ( animals enrage like sharks when they smell / see blood ) or as a defence mechanism ( adrenaline spreads trough the body when in danger ).

I think we can contemplate all we want on how Berserking is going to be implented but in the end it's up to the WAR guys. I like the idea's tho , keep em coming but imo we should leave our Morale bar alone for our own sake :D

[Dying]

Just been thinking of Berserker Rage inflicted by psycho-active drugs lol.

Item : WAAAGH Shroom
Item Level : 1
Use : Drives the Choppa into WAAAGH!

"Der iz nufin like a shroom grown on stunty brainz and umie eyez, taste just like chicken!"
-Shaman Fleamouth

These could be only gathered or found in RvR zones ( dwarf brains , human eyes being the clue to the zones ) and would bring the Choppa instantly into a berserker rage.

:p

[Vidrak]

Just been thinking of Berserker Rage inflicted by psycho-active drugs lol.

Item : WAAAGH Shroom
Item Level : 1
Use : Drives the Choppa into WAAAGH!

"Der iz nufin like a shroom grown on stunty brainz and umie eyez, taste just like chicken!"
-Shaman Fleamouth

These could be only gathered or found in RvR zones ( dwarf brains , human eyes being the clue to the zones ) and would bring the Choppa instantly into a berserker rage.

:p
Haha, next will be a ball and chain with the "Fanatic" ability, right :)

[Dying]

Hehe something for the goblin counterparts indeed :p
That's the fun thing atm , we can spit out our ideas and hopes and see how they evolve :)

[killthewabbit]

First time posting in here as well, just wanted to chime in that once the game goes live this will be the class i am rolling. I need to get away from my wow character a lvl 70 pally. I need to do some damage and this class seems to fit what i want to do.


No i will not bless you.

[Kridak]

First time posting in here as well, just wanted to chime in that once the game goes live this will be the class i am rolling. I need to get away from my wow character a lvl 70 pally. I need to do some damage and this class seems to fit what i want to do.


No i will not bless you.

BoW plz.

oh and about the subject, i agree with the guy who said you could go berserk by consuming a mushroom. :D

[Chopz]

Waz dat boyz? Stuntie wit pink earz?

[Jandau]

From what I've read on the class description page, I got the idea that berserking = morale, meaning that as a Choppa's morale grows, his damage does too, and if he pops a morale skill, he loses the bonus damage.

The 2nd option would be that berserking is a seperate bar, much like Righteous fury for Warrior Priests, or Waaagh for shamans and that it fills up as you deal damage. You can leave it be and have it boost your damage, or use it to pop some badarse skills.

But I don't think I ever heard that you need to pop morale to activate berserking, or that berserking is a static buff that's either on or off...

[Eltair Shadowblade]

uhh guys.....unless they change it is it already confirmed that berserk is a triggered ability.
you use it, and you go into a berserk/frenzy for 15 seconds,unlocking additional skills.
i only hope the cooldown isnt too long, imo 30 sec max

or am i exaggerating ?

[Gaazruk]

Wait so after 3 procs of a bezerk the cooldown is half an hour??? from the videos bezerker is insanely good yes but it lasts like 20-25 seconds... would be a major put off it could only be used 3 times in half an hour..

[Gaazruk]

( it can proc 3x in one fight but won't proc then for half an hour)


this was the quote I was talking about.... or was that just a guess on what he personally wanted to see?

[Dying]

Actually I was illustrating my hopes that the berserker rage "proc" ( if any ) wouldn't be imbalanced so that it would have a dependable "proc" and not be completely random.

And Yeah shrooms should make choppa's go zerk :p

[Gemini]

What is all this about procs? In recent videos and skill lists, it showed beserk as a skill. What did I miss?

[Eltair Shadowblade]

What is all this about procs? In recent videos and skill lists, it showed beserk as a skill. What did I miss?

nothing, looks like alot of people havent updated themselves.
they changed it to a ability, a buff.
you activate it, go in a berserker rage and go choppin
simple as that, nuthin like procs orso...

[Vidrak]

I am hoping to go to GenCon Indy this coming month, I will definitely post a Choppa description and how it plays after.

1) Having the Choppa HEAVILY dependent on morale was in game, at one time, at least they said it was. Personally, this is a bad idea, as the Choppa will not be able to use Morale skills like other classes (and is not fair to have a class heavily dependent on it if moral is supposed to be some special bonus to battle), it should have a separate bar (like the grudge/WAAGH! bar).

2) Now apparently this is not the case. You just mash your berserk ability and go berserk. Personally, I think this is dumb as well. The Choppa was supposed to be a class that "builds up and then goes berserk" or "builds up his berserkness as he fights", they get stronger/tougher as they fight. With a triggered ability that you just click, you could beserk as soon as you rush in? And a 30 minute cooldown? This just seems like utter crap to me, and Paul assured they were going to, "Make it not crap!".

If either of those 2 ideas are put in, I think they did a horrible job of implementing a berserker class. You should become more berserk as you take damage and do damage, that is the whole point of it. And how the Choppa "grows physically stronger and more menacing" tells me that it is a progressive thing, not just a mash of a button and WHAM, you are full berserk frenzy.

All implementations I have heard so far are terrible.