Gender Specifics and the Dark Elf Tank

[Leontes]

On Page 9 of the thread, "Should the Chosen have been only male?" (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14067&page=9), Josh_Mythic mysteriously states:

"- I fully expect this same discussion to come up every time we announce gender-restricted careers. And when it does, I'll read those discussions too."

In this statement, he may or may not be alluding to other careers being gender specific. He might mean High Elf and Dark Elf specifics, he might mean expansion race specifics, or anything else. Can't jump to conclusions, but speculation is possible.

While we can (and have) argue all day about Witch Elves, it now seems entirely possible that they could be in as a female-only class. That's not what this thread is about, however.

I am asking those more devout followers of Warhammer lore (as I myself and fairly new to this universe):

- Would there be any reason at all for Mythic to go the same route with the Dark Elf Tank? Be it Black Guard, Cold One Knight, Executioner or anything else that is fitting with the Dark Elf Tank class, could the Tank end up being Male-only as well? -

If this happens, Destruction will have no possibility of a Female tank. Talk all you want about the Black Orc's sexlessness but the front lines of Destruction would be 100% male if this were to happen.

Is this a valid concern?

[Lorik]

When I read this, I thought the same exact thing -

However, I think the most obvious concern would be the possibility of a Witch-Elf class being female-only.

Who are the main runners for the dark elf tank right now? I was aware of the Cold Ones, and assumed they would be it, but then Paul goes and mentions the Corsairs.

Thoughts?

[Okri]

Corsairs are anything but tanks. My bet would be the Black Guard, or some kind of mix of that, Executioner and Cold One Knights.

And I don't think there is anything in the way of having female tanks for elves, though of course, canonically, they would be rare, just as female Empire Knights or Ironbreakers would be. The Chosen decission was partly made because they wanted the Chosen to be big. Like really big. And women, apparently, just can't get as big as men. Though I wonder if a little chaos couldn't sort that, but nevermind, I've spent too much time in this elgi board anyhow. But best of luck to everyone who is going Druchii.

[Ralzar]

I'd be very surprised if they were. Not including chosne females seems to have been largely based on art assets and not wanitng to spend the time making a custom Chosen Female model. The Dark Elf and High Elf classes will probably all use the same two models, so the problem shouldn't come up.

[Lorik]

They've already released a picture of a female Marauder, which is good news for at least front-line dps. I think the Druchii will be blessed with female tanks, though.

By the way - I know the lore says that the High Elves and the Druchii are basically the same race, but The Hickman has said repeatedly that they want all the races to look completely separate.

Given the one leaked video with a High Elf, and how.... well, alien and incredibly posh they look - is my Druchii going to be less... shall we say, feminized?

[Ralzar]

They've already released a picture of a female Marauder, which is good news for at least front-line dps.

Uh, what? Where?

[Lorik]

Crap, now I gotta hunt for it. Gimme a sec :P

All I can tell you is that she's not daintily built and has something like rams horns. Very nice.

Edit: Have to retract, I can't find it anywhere, which is really aggravating. It was one of the first things I used to try to convince my wife that "look, you can be a girl in this game" to which she responded "ewwww." :P

[Ralzar]

Sure you weren't thinking of this (http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/images/careers/Zealot02_02.jpg)?

Edit: I'm thinking you might have mistaken one of the better fanart pieces as official concept art.

[Lorik]

Nope, she said that might look okay if it had hair! Ha!

So far all the good looking female characters are on Order side. Remind us of anything else? *cough*warcraft*cough*

[Kirska]

Nope, she said that might look okay if it had hair! Ha!

So far all the good looking female characters are on Order side. Remind us of anything else? *cough*warcraft*cough*

Pfft...

My troll is MUCH better looking than the humans.

I think the female Chaos look really good so far. There are screenshots out of female zealots: http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/images/screenshots/ss_june8_10.jpg

[Lorik]

Well holy crap - there's what my wife was looking for!

And who doesn't want to carry around a skull? I mean really.

And yes, she has an old school punk-rock troll shaman as well. Blowing kisses while frost shocking makes me proud :p

[AlienOverlord]

And who doesn't want to carry around a skull? I mean really.
LOL Who indeed?

Don't forget there is also the Magus class.

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=324&c=2

If you feel like hovering around on a demonic disc rather than carrying a skull.

[Leontes]

Um... right. So! Female Black Guard/Cold One Knights/Executioners/Corsairs work within the ip? No reasons why they wouldn't?

I understand the Chosen's art direction. I'm just more curious about the Night Elf tank situation.

[Khargas]

Um... right. So! Female Black Guard/Cold One Knights/Executioners/Corsairs work within the ip? No reasons why they wouldn't?

I understand the Chosen's art direction. I'm just more curious about the Night Elf tank situation.

The difference in sizes between male and female elves is negligable.

I am thinking the Dark Elf tank will be either a Black Guard or a new IP. Corsair and Executioners are more offensive, and a Cold One Knight is pretty much based on his mount, hence the name. Plus Black Guard of Naggaroth just sounds menacing and cool for the players.

[Bork]

I'm just more curious about the Night Elf tank situation.

Night....Elf?

What is this....Night Elf you speak of?

[Lorik]

Let's just start calling them Druchii. Maybe change the name of the board or something. :P

Once you know that they're not "elves", but instead "druchii" we'll be on our way to less "Night Elf" slipups.

[Selandri]

Well the basic troops ( Repeater Crossbow / spears ) have both male and female torsos. I'm also fairly sure somewhere it mentions that the elves don't tend to look at the whole male / female thing during war like the oomies do. Witch elves, dark elf assassins and somewhat magic users are the gender specific careers that come to mind. Though there are male sorcerers they're fairly rare, I think Malekith has something against them.

*Wanders off to find the Dark Elf army book* >.<

*Fails horribly* Mental note: tidy bedroom.

I can't think specifically of any reason to denote the 'tank' class of the Druchii to male only, off the top of my head. That said it depends on what they end up going with it.

[Leontes]

Holy mother of Sigmar I can't believe I stated that.

I will leave it unedited as a testament to my foolishness.

[Gemini]

Yeah, I don't think female dark elves will be a problem for tanks, art wise at least. Chosen are a very special case, and I don't see that happening with the elves.

[Bulwyf]

I am hoping, truly hoping, we won't see any gender restricted classes for Dark Elves.

The good thing on that line of thought is that only Witch Elves, Assassins and Sorceress would be gender restricted and that's if they want the Sorceress to be. Cold One Knight/Dread Knight, Executioners, Black Guard, Corsair, Beastmaster...none of these are gender restricted.

[Watcher]

Sorceresses.

Ok... Malekith, uncompromising leader of the Dark Elves that he is, heard the prophecy that a spellcasting male elf would be his downfall. Since then, all Dark Elf male children with magical ability are sacrificed by the Witch Elves. There is absolutely no way that male spellcasters could be implemented on a large scale for the Dark Elves without betraying a big chunk of their fluff.

[Lorik]

Sorceresses.

Ok... Malekith, uncompromising leader of the Dark Elves that he is, heard the prophecy that a spellcasting male elf would be his downfall. Since then, all Dark Elf male children with magical ability are sacrificed by the Witch Elves. There is absolutely no way that male spellcasters could be implemented on a large scale for the Dark Elves without betraying a big chunk of their fluff.

They're betraying a bit part of their fluff then.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcMRSLP6tKc&mode=related&search=

It's at around 2:50 - he actually leaks the fact that they're having sorcerers in the game! :p

Both crazy AND true!

[kharnage]

It wasn't too long ago that Male dark elves were allowed to be sorcerers.

I still use male dark elve sorcerers in my TT games sometimes (no one ever minds). The developers have already stated that WAR takes place outside the normal Warhammer timeline. So I don't have a problem with male sorcerers and don't see it as a huge break with the IP.

I don't remember any female cold one kinghts in any of the fluff, but it could just be my memory. Anyway, I doubt seriously that cold one knights would be a class.

[kharnage]

Given the one leaked video with a High Elf, and how.... well, alien and incredibly posh they look - is my Druchii going to be less... shall we say, feminized?

Out of the entire Warhammer world, female dark elves are the deadliest females, and not just the WE (although Chaos has some tough ones too). Mythic has had to make up a lot of the female models from scratch, because for most races there were no female warriors (or they were one in a million). For example, female witch hunters and female iron breakers are entirely new. Female Dark Elves have been kicking butt for centuries!!! While many races have female sorceresses, no one had anything close to the WE for deadliness. In the fluff there are plenty of other females taking heads for Khaine.

And (to finally answer you) they are all much more feminine than just about anything out there. Ye, they are deadly and savage, not too mention bloodthirsty -- but they are also almost always (except hags of course) beautiful. While there may be pretty high elf females, they are pretty in a "good girl" way. Dark elf females don't know what modesty is and are beautiful in a "bad girl" way. Of course, female Dark Elf warrior types (not WE or sorceresses) would not wear skimpy clothing. They would still wear armour and all that, it's just that they would still be obviously feminine and beautiful. Of course, that's not to say they wouldn't have scars or something like that.

How Mythic intends to implement female dark elves remains to be seen, but I feel they have done a decent job so far.:D

[Rofllove]

Silly, everyone knows that females have no place on the battle field. Chaos is turnning into a real sausage fest. Regardless of what happens with the elfs. Atleast half the classes will be male only and, yes I am counting orcs as males.

[kharnage]

Silly, everyone knows that females have no place on the battle field. Chaos is turnning into a real sausage fest. Regardless of what happens with the elfs. Atleast half the classes will be male only and, yes I am counting orcs as males.

You can count everyone male if you want -- what difference does it make?

[Rofllove]

You can count everyone male if you want -- what difference does it make?
Orcs are actually male, there jibblies just aren't in between there legs.

[Zoatibix]

The Dark Elf army book speaks of the Druchii women folk being just as adept at war as their menfolk.

Add to that the female torsos one gets with the Dark Elf Warrior Sprue. There are many more women in a Druchii army than any other WHFB army.

I dont' think there are any 'obviously' female Blackguard miniatures but neither have GW said in ghe Black Guard fluff that they are a specifically male class.

Orcs are actually male, there jibblies just aren't in between there legs.

This statement is, I believe, incorrect.

[Ralzar]

This statement is, I believe, incorrect.

Yup, Greenskins do have jibbelies. Supposedly they're spore sacks or something, but they do like kicking eachother in them.

[Rofllove]

The Dark Elf army book speaks of the Druchii women folk being just as adept at war as their menfolk.

Add to that the female torsos one gets with the Dark Elf Warrior Sprue. There are many more women in a Druchii army than any other WHFB army.

I dont' think there are any 'obviously' female Blackguard miniatures but neither have GW said in ghe Black Guard fluff that they are a specifically male class.



This statement is, I believe, incorrect.
They launch there spores out of something, that something is there equivalent to"jibblies".

[AlienOverlord]

Yup, Greenskins do have jibbelies. Supposedly they're spore sacks or something, but they do like kicking eachother in them.

Sometimes, Gamesworship has developed just too much information about their game.

[Watcher]

Hey, one of the first images Climax released to the public of their version of this game was of a completely anatomically correct male Beastman.

Mythic can't really go wrong.

[Anaris]

They launch there spores out of something, that something is there equivalent to"jibblies".

please look up "asexual" in a dictionary.

[Rofllove]

please look up "asexual" in a dictionary.
There big green masculine monsters and there is allot differant theories on how they reproduce, but mentally they and physically they are guys.

[Anaris]

There big green masculine monsters and there is allot differant theories on how they reproduce, but mentally they and physically they are guys.

no, they're orcs. as in a different species. trees are big and strong and don't feel pain and are pretty violent in the long-terms of tree-vs-tree competition - they are not guys. orcs are mushrooms.

[Rofllove]

no, they're orcs. as in a different species. trees are big and strong and don't feel pain and are pretty violent in the long-terms of tree-vs-tree competition - they are not guys. orcs are mushrooms.
Trees don't look like giant green men though. orcs do.

[AlphaMoose]

Based on the fluff and because (somewhere) it's been stated that there's only 1 mounted unit per side (presumably Chosen and KotBS) I'd say it makes the most sense for the tank to be the Black Guard.

[Selandri]

Black Guard would make the most sense, out of the standard options.

As to their gender it'd be difficult to tell, they're wearing armour. I've always found the lack of female miniatures annoying. And yes, I'm male. But there's no 'They can only be male' comment, which they don't seem shy of using in the Druchii book.

Beastmasters have female models, though I'm unsure about the one on the manticore. Morathi is one of my favourite models though the whole right arm doesn't look right to me *Looks for clippers* plus she's gorgeous for conversions. Not to mention the uncovered breast.

Speaking of which, I want Daemonettes!

They could solve the whole Chaos Chosen debate fairly simply. Just say the God is Nurgle, rather than Tzeentch. Then NOBODY can tell the difference.

Back on topic:

Cold one knights, eh. If GW gave them permission to use them sans the Cold Ones it could make sense. They are heavily armoured and tend to be numb due to the Cold Ones slime. Black Guard would still make the most sense, the only argument I could think of against them would be that they're the elite of the elite, Malekiths own. But then, Ironbreakers, Chosen, yada yada.

P.S. That anatomically correct beastman was the best day of my life.

[Nathar]

Based on the fluff and because (somewhere) it's been stated that there's only 1 mounted unit per side (presumably Chosen and KotBS) I'd say it makes the most sense for the tank to be the Black Guard.

I don't give much for that statement. There's no way in hell they'd go "Well currently we only have the two you've guessed, but in a couple of month you'll see there's actually two more". There might be no cold one knights, but to me it's far from certain yet!

[Anaris]

Trees don't look like giant green men though. orcs do.

is the statue, David, a man? no, it's a statue of a man.

is an orc a man? no, it's a fungus. whether they appear to be male or not, they're asexual.

[Rofllove]

is the statue, David, a man? no, it's a statue of a man.

is an orc a man? no, it's a fungus. whether they appear to be male or not, they're asexual.
Your point? Yes, I know that however I said I am counting them as male since they exclusively look male.

[Zoatibix]

That anatomically correct beastman was the best day of my life.

That is sig worthy.

[Remnant]

I'm just more curious about the Night Elf tank situation.


Heretic! Where are the Witch Hunters!?

[Lorik]

And then the thread descends into madness as we all realize that Druchii love their women-folk and will most likely have a female in their tank class.

[V'raneth]

I'm fairly confident the Dark Elf Tank will be gender inclusive. All of the candidates for that position would fully allow females. I'm fairly certain that quote is referencing Witch Elves, the Melee DPS class. There really aren't many roles in Dark Elf society that females don't regularly play.

[Selandri]

That is sig worthy.

I knew I was going to regret that comment. Damn you, fingers, who type without asking! ;)

[Zoatibix]

Typing while out of control?

Frenzied typing?

Ah....welcome to the Typing Pool of Khaine, God of Bloody Typos.

[Rofllove]

Typing while out of control?

Frenzied typing?

Ah....welcome to the Typing Pool of Khaine, God of Bloody Typos.That particular bit of fluff doesn't stand out as much in warhammer as it does in 40k.

[Bulwyf]

It wasn't too long ago that Male dark elves were allowed to be sorcerers.

I still use male dark elve sorcerers in my TT games sometimes (no one ever minds). The developers have already stated that WAR takes place outside the normal Warhammer timeline. So I don't have a problem with male sorcerers and don't see it as a huge break with the IP.

I don't remember any female cold one kinghts in any of the fluff, but it could just be my memory. Anyway, I doubt seriously that cold one knights would be a class.

The very first Malus Darkblade novel has a female Cold One Knight and the second or third book has female Corsairs. All are very deadly in combat and are not Witch Elves.

[Xurré]

The very first Malus Darkblade novel has a female Cold One Knight and the second or third book has female Corsairs. All are very deadly in combat and are not Witch Elves.
<nods> And there are also female Witch Elves in the novels.

Just thought I'd point that out in case there was any uncertainty. ;)


- Xurré

[Hatemonger]

<nods> And there are also female Witch Elves in the novels.
- Xurré

NOW, you're just making stuff up. :rolleyes:

[Xurré]

NOW, you're just making stuff up. :rolleyes:
No, I'm quite sure that in the group that came to eradicate that Slaaneshi cult (in the second book I think) there were a few female ones. For example.


- Xurré

[Hatemonger]

Ridiculous. I'll have you banned for these lies.

[Ashnari Doomsong]

The very first Malus Darkblade novel has a female Cold One Knight and the second or third book has female Corsairs. All are very deadly in combat and are not Witch Elves.

The Darkblade books are, though, kind of... rubbish, fluff-wise. As in, almost universally reviled on various fora(including Druchii.net). So, while what's written in them is technically canon, they do include various impossibilities, like the so-called "Dark Mother".

[Xurré]

Really?

I’m not sure about druchii.net, but I know I quite liked the books (including the “Dark Mother”). Maybe it’s just that fan groups have difficulty with change to ‘their’ world (you should see how the Fallout fans think of the new Fallout game in development :roll: ).

Then again, I would probably be just as upset if someone turned Witch Elves into some kind of hippie healers. :p


- Xurré

[Selandri]

Druchii.net has a fair bit riding on Dark Elves. To the best of my knowledge they helped with the Dark Elf army book revision ( They needed it >.< ) and they're a fairly good community.

I don't believe anyone on either side of the WE / Cors argument has suggested that other class Druchii could be female and deadly o.O It's simply a difference of opinion on which would bring the most Warhammer feel to WAR.

Topics go off topic so quick in here. Has anyone come up with a reason that the Druchii tank would NOT be gender inclusive?

[Selandri]

Druchii.net has a fair bit riding on Dark Elves. To the best of my knowledge they helped with the Dark Elf army book revision ( They needed it >.< ) and they're a fairly good community.

I don't believe anyone on either side of the WE / Cors argument has suggested that other class Druchii could be female and deadly o.O It's simply a difference of opinion on which would bring the most Warhammer feel to WAR.

Topics go off topic so quick in here. Has anyone come up with a reason that the Druchii tank would NOT be gender inclusive?

Edit: And yes. My fingers are frenzied. I blame the Cauldron of Blood nearby.
Edit edit: SMEG. SMEG! Smeg. It says edit or delete but I cannae find a delete button cap'n! I just woke up, that's my excuse.

[Bulwyf]

<nods> And there are also female Witch Elves in the novels.

Just thought I'd point that out in case there was any uncertainty. ;)


- Xurré

lol of course there are, I just did not mention them because the person I responded to were talking about tanks. But yes, there are indeed female:

Cold One Knights
Corsairs
Shades
Witch Elves
Sorceresses
Executioners

I don't think we've seen female Black Guard yet but they have those as well. Female Dark Elves are just as deadly in arms as the males and it is much more than just Witch Elves that that applies to.

[Bulwyf]

Really?

I’m not sure about druchii.net, but I know I quite liked the books (including the “Dark Mother”). Maybe it’s just that fan groups have difficulty with change to ‘their’ world (you should see how the Fallout fans think of the new Fallout game in development :roll: ).

Then again, I would probably be just as upset if someone turned Witch Elves into some kind of hippie healers. :p


- Xurré

I agree with Xurre (gasps from the audience at home) and can not understand how any Dark Elf fan could dislike those books.

[havik110]

I dont understand the worrying that some people have. YOu will have people playing Witch elves simply because they are witch elves. they are the most famous parts of DE armies on both sides of fantasy and 40k. people may be scared of lances but they also know that if the wyches get into cc its all over for any squad but necrons (stupid veil)

as far as the fluff, theyve already said that they might break some of it (in relation to DE caster,) why not break it for tanks, or even witch elves (remember 40k wyches are gladiatorial and have both men and women in their ranks)

I personally would follow the fluff and not break away as to keep the people that play the table top and know the fluff happy. Whats more important, having a female tank or having 1000s of angry people scream about female cold one knights...

[Dustandpolos]

Actually in regards to the Dark Elf caster they said they weren't breaking IP by making them male too. And Wytches are not Witch Elves - they're counterparts on the battlefield, but in two completely different games with separate lore; male witch elves makes absolutely no sense.

I seriously doubt there'll be any male-only Elf classes, as Elves rely less on brute strength and a burly physique (which is fundamental to Chaos Chosen) and more on agility, speed and quick-wittedness, in all of which fields women are at no disadvantage. Indeed, the standard (negative) stereotype of Elves is as effeminate, so male-only classes would not only make no sense but would actually undermine the feel of the race from the IP.

[Bulwyf]

I dont understand the worrying that some people have. YOu will have people playing Witch elves simply because they are witch elves. they are the most famous parts of DE armies on both sides of fantasy and 40k. people may be scared of lances but they also know that if the wyches get into cc its all over for any squad but necrons (stupid veil)

as far as the fluff, theyve already said that they might break some of it (in relation to DE caster,) why not break it for tanks, or even witch elves (remember 40k wyches are gladiatorial and have both men and women in their ranks)

I personally would follow the fluff and not break away as to keep the people that play the table top and know the fluff happy. Whats more important, having a female tank or having 1000s of angry people scream about female cold one knights...

That makes no sense. There ARE female Cold One Knights in the lore and in the TT armies. I also would argue in terms of iconic stature no unit is more iconic to Dark Elves than Cold One Knights.

[Nathar]

I agree with Xurre (gasps from the audience at home) and can not understand how any Dark Elf fan could dislike those books.

There are several things that annoy some of us lore-wise. I love them as books as they're amazing and very exciting to read. The hole executioner thing the books got going on annoys. Executioners are a special group of warriors from Har Ganeth. In the books executioners are just skilled draich-wielding male witches. Basically that's what they are in the books. They're in Hag Graef in the plenty.

Then there's the unallowed spellcaster subject. I'm pretty sure many, including me of course, are annoyed by HOW public they are. I mean Malekith is a pretty serious man and so are his closest leaders (the drachau's and the Vaulkhar's). Maybe on of the spellcasters could make it but there are 2 spellcasters at least and they don't exactly try to hide it. They keep showing everyone else that they like the magic stuff.

There are some other things that annoy me personally but in general there are several things that go against lore. Personally it annoys me that I saw Mike Lee compare the warpsword of Khaine to the Sword of Khaine. It's like comparing a god to a footsoldier. It's a great sword but no Sword of Khaine.

[havik110]

That makes no sense. There ARE female Cold One Knights in the lore and in the TT armies. I also would argue in terms of iconic stature no unit is more iconic to Dark Elves than Cold One Knights.

how bout this...you talk to 40k players that have no idea about fantasy...ask them to name you a dark elf unit.. Which one are they gonna name? wyches are iconic just as witch elves...(personally my wyches are fantasy witch elves with blasters and splinter pistols because the dark eldar models are 1st edition and ugly)

[Zoatibix]

That makes no sense. There ARE female Cold One Knights in the lore and in the TT armies. I also would argue in terms of iconic stature no unit is more iconic to Dark Elves than Cold One Knights.

Er...I'll respectfully disagree. The Witches are more easily recognised and get more 'air time' than the poor old CoK by a country mile.

[Black Razor]

They've already released a picture of a female Marauder, which is good news for at least front-line dps. I think the Druchii will be blessed with female tanks, though.

By the way - I know the lore says that the High Elves and the Druchii are basically the same race, but The Hickman has said repeatedly that they want all the races to look completely separate.

Given the one leaked video with a High Elf, and how.... well, alien and incredibly posh they look - is my Druchii going to be less... shall we say, feminized?

Pretty much completely agree with Lorik. Just a few points.. to my knowledge theres no stigma on dark elves as far as the tanks go with being male or female .. except maybe executioners .. which I recall reading somewhere they are a fraternal organization. However I HIGHLY doubt they will be the tank class choice for druchii so thats not an issue. A female should be able to be a cold one knight ..since cold one knights are nobles and there are female nobles referenced in the text. I don't know for sure there are female corsairs .. but I don't see why there couldn't be .. and anyways again .. I doubt they will be the tanks either as dread knight is the definite leader in that right now in my eyes. And yes 'the Hickman' is right in his views cause though Druchii and High Elves were once the same race .. I think its been a few hundred years since the split ..they have defiantly developed there own distinctions physically .. for instance high elves are almost always portrayed as blond or extremely fair haired while dark elves are usually dark haired if not raven black. As for elves both dark and high being metro sexual .. well .. they are ..not much can be done there. :p

[Bulwyf]

Er...I'll respectfully disagree. The Witches are more easily recognised and get more 'air time' than the poor old CoK by a country mile.

I disagree, with respect. Nothing is more easily recognizable than a plate clad Dark Elf on the back of a small dinosaur. The only other unit that is as that easy to spot and understand immediately are Reaper Bolt Throwers.

[Azyrn]

I am going to have to agree that Witch Elves are more iconic then Cold on Knights. However its something of an opinionated thing. I personally view Corsairs to be the icon of Dark Elves for me.

As to female tanks i imagine the Dark Elf tank being a Executioner or Black Guard. However, neither of which seem particular Male only so i wouldn't worry about it.

[kharnage]

There are several things that annoy some of us lore-wise. I love them as books as they're amazing and very exciting to read. The hold executioner thing the books got going on annoys. Executioners are a special group of warriors from Har Ganeth. In the books executioners are just skilled draich-wielding male witches. Basically that's what they are in the books. They're in Hag Graef in the plenty.

Then there's the unallowed spellcaster subject. I'm pretty sure many, including me of course, are annoyed by HOW public they are. I mean Malekith is a pretty serious man and so are his closest leaders (the drachau's and the Vaulkhar's). Maybe on of the spellcasters could make it but there are 2 spellcasters at least and they don't exactly try to hide it. They keep showing everyone else that they like the magic stuff.

There are some other things that annoy me personally but in general there are several things that go against lore. Personally it annoys me that I saw Mike Lee compare the warpsword of Khaine to the Sword of Khaine. It's like comparing a god to a footsoldier. It's a great sword but no Sword of Khaine.


I agree with you on the books. I love the books but certain things were just plain wrong with them. I was able to ignore the discrepancies though and just enjoy!;-)

[Zoatibix]

I disagree, with respect. Nothing is more easily recognizable than a plate clad Dark Elf on the back of a small dinosaur. The only other unit that is as that easy to spot and understand immediately are Reaper Bolt Throwers.

Nah, people just think they're very fat horses from a distance. :D

[Azyrn]

Nah, people just think they're very fat horses from a distance. :D

LOL that is classic. I've always referred DE cold ones to mentally challenged Godzilla babies.

[Noli me Tangere]

I have to wonder, I see such a push for some classes. I personally feel for a Sorcerer/Sorceress, Shade, Cold One Knight, and Witch Elf combo. It may not make any sense, but, hey I am terribly biased on liking Shades, Cold Ones, and Witch Elves about equally.. :D

[Kellaris]

On Page 9 of the thread, "Should the Chosen have been only male?" (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14067&page=9), Josh_Mythic mysteriously states:

"- I fully expect this same discussion to come up every time we announce gender-restricted careers. And when it does, I'll read those discussions too."



Confidering this statement, we shall not forget abut High Elves. They also have their Maiden Guard (personally I'don't think it will be included) and White Lions. White Lions are very propable choice and can be gender restricted in the same way as Chosen.

[Zoatibix]

Forgive my ignorance but why would White Lions be gender restricted?

Is there Lore against them being female? WH Elf lore is pretty keen on women folk fighting alongside their menfolk.

[Bulwyf]

Hrm I didn't even consider High Elves may be the "future gender restricted" class that Josh was referring to earlier. It would kind of balance things out if both sides had a gender restricted class as opposed to two (or more??) on the same side.

[Noli me Tangere]

Hrm I didn't even consider High Elves may be the "future gender restricted" class that Josh was referring to earlier. It would kind of balance things out if both sides had a gender restricted class as opposed to two (or more??) on the same side.

If they were concerned with balancing the factions in this manner, wouldn't they have had a race that countered orcs for having two non-gender-descript races (orc/gobo) packed into one? Just a thought.

It really would make more sense for the Dark Elves to have a female restricted class, the lore I've read seems to consider that, out of all the included races, they seem the most likely in lore terms to field females on a regular basis. Not that the High Elf thing couldn't happen, I think though that there's a reason people generally talk more about Dark Elves having a female only class, and rarely the same of high elves.

[Bulwyf]

If they were concerned with balancing the factions in this manner, wouldn't they have had a race that countered orcs for having two non-gender-descript races (orc/gobo) packed into one? Just a thought.

It really would make more sense for the Dark Elves to have a female restricted class, the lore I've read seems to consider that, out of all the included races, they seem the most likely in lore terms to field females on a regular basis. Not that the High Elf thing couldn't happen, I think though that there's a reason people generally talk more about Dark Elves having a female only class, and rarely the same of high elves.



There's no other asexual race besides Orcs though. In terms of looks if they add Lizardmen as a race in an expansion it would give the "good" guys an "ugly" race if that is what you are intending.

Josh said "gender restricted" not "female restricted" so it makes me wonder what they have planned to make that distinction.

[Zoatibix]

Lizzardmen are the obvious good gender neutral race, yes.

Dark Elves based on the years of fluff and figures do seem the biggest deployers of female troops. Only the High and Wood Elves come close.

And Bul' is right, we had simply assumed that gender restricted would mean 'of the opposite gender of the two we have'.

[Noli me Tangere]

Lizzardmen are the obvious good gender neutral race, yes.

Dark Elves based on the years of fluff and figures do seem the biggest deployers of female troops. Only the High and Wood Elves come close.

And Bul' is right, we had simply assumed that gender restricted would mean 'of the opposite gender of the two we have'.

That would mean another male only class then. And, really, I'm not sure how well that would go over. Just the Chosen got a lot of flack, though I do notice a lot of supporters for Chosen being male only are also against a female only class in contrast (not all, just enough names that I noticed). I'm curious how multiple male only classes would go over (if that were to happen), actually, especially if there were less classes, or no classes at all, of the feminine gender to contrast that.

I suppose no one said it had to be balanced by gender. Still, I think I'd be disappointed.

I'll still stand by that if there is a female only class, that dark elves (in my mind) seem the most likely to get it. Not that I feel that it's impossible for it to show up in another race, mind you.

Lizzardmen are the obvious good gender neutral race, yes.

Oooh, I like where this is going. :D

[Zoatibix]

Oh, I agree that another male only class would be taken very badly...especially if we hear 'it was too difficult to do in the time' again.

But we're inferring that 'other gender balanced classes' means female only, which may not be the case.

I feel (as a pen and paper GM) that if you introduce gender based classes you should naturally balance them like for like, not in any sense of political correctness but simply to balance them out - one male, one female.

[Kellaris]

Forgive my ignorance but why would White Lions be gender restricted?
Is there Lore against them being female? WH Elf lore is pretty keen on women folk fighting alongside their menfolk.


It' s the same situation like Chosen. White Lions are most powerful of High elfes. Considering pure brute strenght of course. Huge mountainmens.
No one is claiming, that there is no females among them. But vast majority of them are males. And this is exactly the same situation lake Chaos Chosen.
Mythic just didn't want to see 60% of chosens to be female.
Please don't start another discussion about it. I'm not claiming that this is good or bad.
But this is how Mythic people see this.
And for me, White Lion is the same situation like Chosen so I think Mythic interpretation might be the same.

[Xurré]

Oooh, I like where this is going. :D
Don't get too excited just yet... if they include Lizardmen as a race in an expansion then it's likely that they'll be faced off against Skaven on the Destruction side, which is pretty much a male-only race. ;)


It' s the same situation like Chosen. White Lions are most powerful of High elfes. Considering pure brute strenght of course. Huge mountainmens.
No one is claiming, that there is no females among them. But vast majority of them are males. And this is exactly the same situation lake Chaos Chosen.
Mythic just didn't want to see 60% of chosens to be female.
Please don't start another discussion about it. I'm not claiming that this is good or bad.
But this is how Mythic people see this.
And for me, White Lion is the same situation like Chosen so I think Mythic interpretation might be the same.
From what I udnerstand the problem wasn't that they didn't want to see female Chosen, or anything, but that they had some issues with designing the armor for the female Chosen to look feminine and yet still like a bulky Chaos warrior... or such.

And I don't think they'll have much difficulty with making the White Lions look female.


Anyway, I think this whole balance of gender restrictions is a bit nonsense (both across faction, within a faction and across the genders) except to say that both factions should have the ability to play any of the four roles with either male or female (meaning, I don't think it's a good idea to make the dark elf tank male-only).

For the rest it's a matter of looking which classes make sense to include and if it makes sense for that class to be gender restricted then it's gender restricted. And if it makes sense for the class to have both genders then it has both genders.

I don't think it's any more complicated than that.


- Xurré

[Ashnari Doomsong]

It' s the same situation like Chosen. White Lions are most powerful of High elfes. Considering pure brute strenght of course. Huge mountainmens.
No one is claiming, that there is no females among them. But vast majority of them are males. And this is exactly the same situation lake Chaos Chosen.
Mythic just didn't want to see 60% of chosens to be female.
Please don't start another discussion about it. I'm not claiming that this is good or bad.
But this is how Mythic people see this.
And for me, White Lion is the same situation like Chosen so I think Mythic interpretation might be the same.
No fear. They can be done hawt, and so will be done, with people saying "hey, these people aren't sex bombs!" despite them actually being so whenever asked.

[Black Razor]

Lizzardmen are the obvious good gender neutral race, yes.

Dark Elves based on the years of fluff and figures do seem the biggest deployers of female troops. Only the High and Wood Elves come close.

And Bul' is right, we had simply assumed that gender restricted would mean 'of the opposite gender of the two we have'.

Wood Elves are a very female heavy army also yes. Miniature range wise at least .. they have a large assortment of female models and one of the only pre-manufactured female lord models I know of. There are female models for alot of things including Wardancers. Been thinking about building a army actually .. focus on the shooty aspects.

[Blaze]

It' s the same situation like Chosen. White Lions are most powerful of High elfes. Considering pure brute strenght of course. Huge mountainmens.
No one is claiming, that there is no females among them. But vast majority of them are males. And this is exactly the same situation lake Chaos Chosen.
Mythic just didn't want to see 60% of chosens to be female.
Please don't start another discussion about it. I'm not claiming that this is good or bad.
But this is how Mythic people see this.
And for me, White Lion is the same situation like Chosen so I think Mythic interpretation might be the same.

Female White Lions are catgirls! Neko Neko :mrgreen:

[Selandri]

-Peers at White Lions strength stat- Mm.

Skaven would be so freakin cool. Though they'd have to add friendly fire on warmachines for the proper Skaven feel!

Wood Elves are the most female heavy army in lore, they do not distinguish between man and woman, with the exception that usually female mages become more powerful due to their connection to Ariel.

The White Lions claim Korhil to be the strongest Elf in all Ulthuan, which may well be true, for he is without doubt amongst the tallest of all his kindred. Even so, he is no lumbering giant, but wields his long axe with a dexterity and grace that makes even his fellow White Lions appear cumbersome.

Elves are all about the skill, elite units, not many. Also his strength characteristic is 4. And yes I know that's a completely stupid statement since the strength characteristic has been far more equalized in the last edition(s?) of Warhammer, but hey it'll confuse someone I'm sure! :)

[Bluucandi]

I just don't get this aversion to a female only class, and in particular, a melee class. DAoC has it's Bainsheas - there was no uproar from the male gaming community about this being an excusively female class. So why all the flack suddenly? So what if a class is exclusively female? If its fun to play it shouldnt matter if its gender specific. Same goes for male-only classes.

As for males playing female characters I've seen people in this forum speak of this as if it was a rarity but oh contraire mon ame I had at least a dozen male friends in WoW who played female trolls, female orcs, female undead, and yes - lots of female NEs. I knew a guy in a raiding guild who played a female undead rogue because he loved the "flip" manuever the females made with a certian attack style.

You all can go back and forth debating this with lore (it makes for entertaining debates) but as someone stated Mythic has bent the lore to accommodate certian classes they can do it again.

[Estebar]

I just don't get this aversion to a female only class, and in particular, a melee class. DAoC has it's Bainsheas - there was no uproar from the male gaming community about this being an excusively female class. So why all the flack suddenly? Because this exclusively female class is one of many classes which could take the highly popular Dark Elf melee dps class. There's only one Dark Elf melee dps class and many different units within the tabletop army could fit into it. Heck, all Dark Elves are ferocious and I wouldn't put it past any of them to sink their teeth into your throat if you got too close...

[Bluucandi]

Because this exclusively female class is one of many classes which could take the highly popular Dark Elf melee dps class. There's only one Dark Elf melee dps class and many different units within the tabletop army could fit into it. Heck, all Dark Elves are ferocious and I wouldn't put it past any of them to sink their teeth into your throat if you got too close...

Thank you but I've already realised this. I am not asking a question necessarily but trying to get the forum examin their personal opposition to it if they have such. All the arguements against one female-only melee DPS class have been weak IMHO.

[Estebar]

Well, seeing as the OP said... While we can (and have) argue all day about Witch Elves, it now seems entirely possible that they could be in as a female-only class. That's not what this thread is about, however. ...and seeing as no-one had been talking about witch elves or female-only melee classes before you, maybe you should flog that dead horse one more time in one of the more appropriate threads.

I would suggest here (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14572), or here (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14352), to name but a few of the many threads on the subject.

[roadkizzle]

Well, one of the main differences I see about the female-only classes in DAoC is that they are one in a multitude of other classes.

The biggest problem that I see is not with the possibility of a female only class, but that if you want to play a female character on the destruction side, then you are only allowed to choose from 3/8 currently released classes, and either 7/12 or 6/12 depending on whether or not assassins are in instead of witch elves.

In fact, if you are a female, like playing females, and tank classes. The ONLY choice you have is probably whatever the destruction tank class is.

People can accept the greenskins being gender-neutral/male however you look at it, because it is a lore reason, but it has been pointed out that there have been female chosen. There are some cases of female chaos champions in the books, and in WFRP you it states that you can be a female chosen. Therefore, the reason the female chosen were not included is not due to some lore issue.

I have no problem with male-only or female-only classes, but in WAR, where there are only 24 classes in the entire game, it becomes a much more restrictive problem than in Dark Age of Camelot, where there were about 16 classes per side, for a total of about 60 classes in the entire game.

6/24=1/4 is very different than 2/47
WAR DAoC
Chosen Bainshee
All-greenskins Valkyrie
Witch-elf/assassin

[Bluucandi]

Well, seeing as the OP said... ...and seeing as no-one had been talking about witch elves or female-only melee classes before you, maybe you should flog that dead horse one more time in one of the more appropriate threads.

I would suggest here (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14572), or here (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14352), to name but a few of the many threads on the subject.


Ive noticed you've flogged it yourself. :)

No it's not a dead horse. It's a concern. The more stories about the WE that I read the more compelled I am to support them as a class.

[Zoatibix]

It' s the same situation like Chosen. White Lions are most powerful of High elfes. Considering pure brute strenght of course. Huge mountainmens.


The situations are not even remotely similar. Elven males have a slimmer build than human males, and even the White Lions are not steroid freaks a la the northmen who make up the ranks of the Chosen.

[Black Razor]

The situations are not even remotely similar. Elven males have a slimmer build than human males, and even the White Lions are not steroid freaks a la the northmen who make up the ranks of the Chosen.

Yeah I have to second this .. White Lions at there best get only as big as an average human warrior. Elves in Warhammer have lean muscle .. there not body builders. Wood elves are probably the most muscular and even they are still slender by human standards.

[Selandri]

And a fair amount of the Wood Elf models are female. Oo la la!

Hopefully they'll make some decent female High Elf models with the update and I can laugh, laugh I say! Mwahahaha... whatchoo mean I'm off topic?

I can see no reason not to have a female option for the Druchii tank. They've made Marauders different from tabletop, Zealots and Choppas are both different from their nearest tabletop equivalent, so, therefore, no reason to be strictly 'It must be a bloke' about the tank.

[Frein]

I just don't get this aversion to a female only class, and in particular, a melee class. DAoC has it's Bainsheas - there was no uproar from the male gaming community about this being an excusively female class. So why all the flack suddenly? So what if a class is exclusively female? If its fun to play it shouldnt matter if its gender specific. Same goes for male-only classes.

I'm not too familiar with DAoC classes, but is the bainshee a very unique class (from a gameplay point of view)? If so, I could easily imagine people being ticked off for it being female only.

I believe that the closer to human we get, the more people want to choose their gender. Orcs are pretty alien, so I think most people won't have trouble accepting the fact that they are all very masculine despite the fluff's best efforts to claim otherwise.

I actually think the WH IP is pretty problematic for an MMORPG for reasons like this. WH was created in a time when strong female characters just weren't that popular. The strongest or the bravest characters were generally men. This trend has greatly shifted in recent years.


As for males playing female characters I've seen people in this forum speak of this as if it was a rarity but oh contraire mon ame I had at least a dozen male friends in WoW who played female trolls, female orcs, female undead, and yes - lots of female NEs. I knew a guy in a raiding guild who played a female undead rogue because he loved the "flip" manuever the females made with a certian attack style.

You're correct. It's not at all uncommon for male players to pick female characters for many different reasons. I just don't see how this is relevant to this discussion. Though I suppose the Witch Elf would be slightly special as it allows guys to pick the sexy female character without feeling guilt for picking the opposite gender. Kind of like the female only race of mithra (very cute feline-human hybrids) in FFXI.


You all can go back and forth debating this with lore (it makes for entertaining debates) but as someone stated Mythic has bent the lore to accommodate certian classes they can do it again.
Yep. I actually give the thumbs up for almost any lore bending because the WH IP in its purest form simply isn't suitable for an MMORPG. The time line in WAR isn't even canon so they could just write whatever excuse they want to support going against the lore.

Hell, I bet (and hope) we'll see female skaven as playable characters if that race ever gets added. They'll just say some renegades among the skaven saved a bunch of females from being turned into drugged up birthing machines or whatever. They could look something like this. (http://www.wizards.com/global/images/mtgcom_daily_jm88_picMain_en.jpg) I'm also against their decision to create male only chosen even though that doesn't even bend the lore. They said they're not going to just glue female heads onto male chosen bodies, but I think that could actually work just fine with perhaps some minor tweaks to the arms and hips.

[kharnage]

Hell, I bet (and hope) we'll see female skaven as playable characters if that race ever gets added. They'll just say some renegades among the skaven saved a bunch of females from being turned into drugged up birthing machines or whatever. They could look something like this. (http://www.wizards.com/global/images/mtgcom_daily_jm88_picMain_en.jpg) I'm also against their decision to create female only chosen even though that doesn't even bend the lore. They said they're not going to just glue female heads onto male chosen bodies, but I think that could actually work just fine with perhaps some minor tweaks to the arms and hips.


I truly hope they wouldn't allow female skaven to be playable. It would be as foolish as making orcs female. I understand some people don't know anything about warhammer, and others just don't like warhammer. But the people in charge of the game DO like warhammer, and changing the skaven so much for no reason makes no sense. It's not like female dwarfs, where it was just really rare to hear of a female dwarf in combat of any kind. Skaven females specifically do one thing - breed. While that may actually be an interesting career, I doubt it makes it into the game. Maybe you are right and they will change the skaven race to allow female skaven warriors, etc. I just don't see GW and Mythic doing something so ridiculous just to please a tiny minority of players that are dying to play a female ratperson.

[Selandri]

Uhrm. How the heck did this turn into Female Skaven as characters? I see a replacement for Female Chosen threads!

And no. Eww. No. No female Skaven as playable characters. That wouldn't bend the lore, it would do things to it that go beyond a teen rating. Hell they go beyond an NC-17 rating.

All the other races can have female warriors while remaining within the lore. Orcs? No. Lizardmen, no. Skaven, no. Even Beastmen have at least one reference to a female warrior. Ogre Kingdoms even had a limited edition ( I think ) female Maneater.

Dark Elves would be one of the easiest races to fit female warriors into.

[kharnage]

Uhrm. How the heck did this turn into Female Skaven as characters? I see a replacement for Female Chosen threads!

And no. Eww. No. No female Skaven as playable characters. That wouldn't bend the lore, it would do things to it that go beyond a teen rating. Hell they go beyond an NC-17 rating.

All the other races can have female warriors while remaining within the lore. Orcs? No. Lizardmen, no. Skaven, no. Even Beastmen have at least one reference to a female warrior. Ogre Kingdoms even had a limited edition ( I think ) female Maneater.

Dark Elves would be one of the easiest races to fit female warriors into.

Agree a million percent:D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dark Elves are (IMO) the one race where females are just as deadly and fearsome as the males.

[Xurré]

Dark Elves are (IMO) the one race where females are just as deadly and fearsome as the males.
"just as"??? :evil:


- Xurré

[Kellaris]

The situations are not even remotely similar. Elven males have a slimmer build than human males, and even the White Lions are not steroid freaks a la the northmen who make up the ranks of the Chosen.

They are the only elfs (considering Dark, High or Wood Elf) with Strenght of 4 instead of 3.
And it is exactly the same difference, as between Chaos Warrior and Marauder.
And don't get me wrong. I'm completely against gender restrictions.
And I'm not going to argue that this is right.
Especially, when it comes to High Elfs which are trophy-givers only.
I'm just pointing similiarites.

[Noli me Tangere]

"just as"??? :evil:

- Xurré

:p:rolleyes::D:mrgreen:

Though I suppose the Witch Elf would be slightly special as it allows guys to pick the sexy female character without feeling guilt for picking the opposite gender.Why would anyone, of any gender, feel guilty for playing a fictional character of the opposite gender, for any reason? Seriously, feeling guilty about something like that is about as sensible as feeling guilty for liking ketchup better than mustard or vice-versa.

[Thoden Firehammer]

Yesp he said just as :P sorry but i'm afraid the assassins win oh and corsairs .. and every other Dark elf that likes killing .. so yeah I think they are all just as fearsome as the other, well ... by fearsome if you mean a small cute kitty cat >.> now bow, bow before the might of the Dwarfs, hell I think even Dark Elves would cry if they ran into Chaos Dwarfs :P now bow!! :P

[Noli me Tangere]

Yesp he said just as :P sorry but i'm afraid the assassins win oh and corsairs .. and every other Dark elf that likes killing .. so yeah I think they are all just as fearsome as the other, well ... by fearsome if you mean a small cute kitty cat >.> now bow, bow before the might of the Dwarfs, hell I think even Dark Elves would cry if they ran into Chaos Dwarfs :P now bow!! :P

<.<

I thas just been announced that all WAR Dwarfs will be female.

>.>

:grin:

Assassins don't really make sense to me unless you have Witch Elves:

"During the Death Night, the Witch Elves roam the streets of the Dark Elf cities, all who cross their path are offering to Khaine. Some of those taken are young babes, who are then offered up to the Lord of Murder in the Caldron of Blood. Only those chosen by Khaine emerge."

Then again, I suppose that would be in the past that the Witch Elf stole you away and dropped you in blood? :confused: So I suppose it would work. It'd be odd to roleplay a witch elf a bet, you'd be promised already, so anyone that hit on the witch elf would have to be killed. I think it was something like:

"Don't desire the touch of a bride of Khaine, for her life is given to the Lord of Murder, and he is a jealous god, and does not share his chosen ones."

Or something or the other. Anytime your godly boyfriend got jealous he'd appear and kill anyone that was looking at you, just in case maybe? :rolleyes:


The corsairs would be interesting, in a way, because you'd only get to keep a tenth of all your loot. The rest would go to their captain and the witch king. :p

Here's a question, though, and correct me if wrong, but, my understand was that the Corsairs were part of a crew on a ship? What I've read of them doesn't really make me feel as though you'd be a solo corsair out adventuring in a dungeon.. So I really don't think Corsairs are probable at all.

Maybe assasins. Maybe witch elves. Sorceress seems likely, though, I don't know if a male counterpart to them is likely or not. I think the cold one knights sound interesting, but I suppose there's quite a following for black guard too.

The tank is the issue here.. so, I wonder if the mounts for the cold one knights are probable. If not, then, I suppose that makes them more unlikely than otherwise.

Suppose we'll see.

[Kellaris]

The biggest problem that I see is not with the possibility of a female only class, but that if you want to play a female character on the destruction side, then you are only allowed to choose from 3/8 currently released classes, and either 7/12 or 6/12 depending on whether or not assassins are in instead of witch elves.

If You want to play male character You have 4/8 currently released and 7/12 or 8/12 depending whether or not witch elves are in. Not so much different.
Come on people. What makes orc male. Muscles?. I'm pretty sure, that if there were orc females, they would look pretty the same. Maybe, they would have some breasts. They are like gorillas. They are humanoid, but still completly different. Alien.
Orc females would look ugly and wouldn't be too popular.



People can accept the greenskins being gender-neutral/male however you look at it, because it is a lore reason, but it has been pointed out that there have been female chosen. There are some cases of female chaos champions in the books, and in WFRP you it states that you can be a female chosen. Therefore, the reason the female chosen were not included is not due to some lore issue.

I really don't think the IP reason of making chosen male only, is fact that there are no female chosen in the world. Becouse there are a few female chaos warriors.
Keyword: "a few".
The point is, that in MMO You have 2 options. Stick female head to male corps, and this is not good. Or, make it a bit sexy and 50% of chaos chosen would be females (male players playing females mostly). 50% is not "a few".


I have no problem with male-only or female-only classes, but in WAR, where there are only 24 classes in the entire game, it becomes a much more restrictive problem than in Dark Age of Camelot, where there were about 16 classes per side, for a total of about 60 classes in the entire game.

For this reason, I hope the won't make any more gender specific carrers.
They can introduce them later in some add-on.
But for the first 24 classes, 1 is enough.

[Noli me Tangere]

For this reason, I hope the won't make any more gender specific carrers.
They can introduce them later in some add-on.
But for the first 24 classes, 1 is enough.

Five, you mean. Orcs and Goblins have no gender, technically. :D

[Kellaris]

<.<
It'd be odd to roleplay a witch elf a bet, you'd be promised already, so anyone that hit on the witch elf would have to be killed. I think it was something like:

"Don't desire the touch of a bride of Khaine, for her life is given to the Lord of Murder, and he is a jealous god, and does not share his chosen ones."

Or something or the other. Anytime your godly boyfriend got jealous he'd appear and kill anyone that was looking at you, just in case maybe? :rolleyes:

There is one good think about it. There will be no friendly collision detection.
Khaine will not know if I'm tuching her or not :D



Here's a question, though, and correct me if wrong, but, my understand was that the Corsairs were part of a crew on a ship? What I've read of them doesn't really make me feel as though you'd be a solo corsair out adventuring in a dungeon.. So I really don't think Corsairs are probable at all.

They are part of the crew in the same way as Executioners are part of unit and Witch is part of the temple. Same think can be said about almost everyone.
By the way. Corsairs may catch some of Jack Sparrow popularity. ;)

[Kellaris]

Five, you mean. Orcs and Goblins have no gender, technically. :D
Indeed. So You are not forced to play oppsed sex. That is the point.
You are forced to play a sexless mushroom, and this is completly different matter. ;)

[Noli me Tangere]

There is one good think about it. There will be no friendly collision detection.
Khaine will not know if I'm tuching her or not :D

Well then I'm sure she'd kill you, and use your blood, skin and organs for some crazy ritual then. :shock:

They are part of the crew in the same way as Executioners are part of unit and Witch is part of the temple. Same think can be said about almost everyone.
By the way. Corsairs may catch some of Jack Sparrow popularity. ;)Yes, but are they really corsairs without a ship? :confused: And do we really want to give up all but 10% of our loot to our captain? :confused: I say mutiny. :twisted:

[Xurré]

Yesp he said just as :P sorry but i'm afraid the assassins win oh and corsairs .. and every other Dark elf that likes killing .. so yeah I think they are all just as fearsome as the other, well ... by fearsome if you mean a small cute kitty cat >.> now bow, bow before the might of the Dwarfs, hell I think even Dark Elves would cry if they ran into Chaos Dwarfs :P now bow!! :P
You’re lucky, you know that. You’ve yet to taste the exquisite terror of coming face-to-face with a Witch Elf and having her rip you to shreds bit by small, painful bit. They say it’s never as good as that first time (which might be because after that you’d be dead :p ).

“all just as fearsome as the other,” pfft. :roll:


- Xurré

[Kellaris]

Well then I'm sure she'd kill you, and use your blood, skin and organs for some crazy ritual then. :shock:

She can try of course :cool:



Yes, but are they really corsairs without a ship? :confused: And do we really want to give up all but 10% of our loot to our captain? :confused: I say mutiny. :twisted:

It is better to have 10% of something, that 100% of nothing.
On the other hand. If You are Witch, You gain no profit from killing people. Pleasure only. (You know, they have no pockets to hide the gold;) )

[Noli me Tangere]

It is better to have 10% of something, that 100% of nothing.
On the other hand. If You are Witch, You gain no profit from killing people. Pleasure only. (You know, they have no pockets to hide the gold;) )

See, this is why Chaos is superior. Even if they don't have pockets they can keep the gold in their really big armor. That's why the Chaos Chosen walking by kept going "Chinka clink clink clink ching cling" :D

[Orochimaru]

Female White Lions are catgirls! Neko Neko :mrgreen:

Bravo, the best argument ever put forward against White Lions.

As for all the other mental giants saying White Lions would only be the same size as your average human warrior, hmm. 4 strength Unit. Number of Empire army units with 4 str is.. zero, nil, nada, zlich, none. Can we have less DnD elves more Warhammer please. If there are any elves on the planet who could enter a body building competition it'd be the White Lions. As strong as your average Chaos Warrior, stronger than Marauder's, killing lions with their bare hands. I don't think 'lean muscle' really applies to those guys.

As for the OP, can't see any of the potential DE tanks being gender restricted. Our DPS is looking more and more like it will be though. :-(

[Thoden Firehammer]

You’re lucky, you know that. You’ve yet to taste the exquisite terror of coming face-to-face with a Witch Elf and having her rip you to shreds bit by small, painful bit. They say it’s never as good as that first time (which might be because after that you’d be dead :p ).

“all just as fearsome as the other,” pfft. :roll:


- Xurré


Lass I would like t' point out that yeh wear no armor, *chuckles* even so aneh armor yeh wear wouldn't 'elp yeh, meh 'ammer would jus' crush it an' yeh inside, so I guess yer more luckeh than yer other Elf counter parts, in anneh case yeh'll die all tha same lass

[Noli me Tangere]

Lass I would like t' point out that yeh wear no armor, *chuckles* even so aneh armor yeh wear wouldn't 'elp yeh, meh 'ammer would jus' crush it an' yeh inside, so I guess yer more luckeh than yer other Elf counter parts, in anneh case yeh'll die all tha same lass

Yes, but you trip over your beard when you charge. o_O

[Thoden Firehammer]

Bah! that joke evereh time! .. weh tie it up in combat!

[Noli me Tangere]

Bah! that joke evereh time! .. weh tie it up in combat!

So that's what they mean when they say to tie it in a knot. :rolleyes:

[Zoatibix]

As for all the other mental giants saying White Lions would only be the same size as your average human warrior, hmm.

My apologies. I looked at the models of the White Lions (Warhammer elf sized) and compared them to the big chunky models in full plate that are the chaos chaps. The White Lions aren't built like a body builder with stupid amounts of 'bulked' muscle.

One of my mates is lean like me but he has very strong muscles and is much, much stronger.

So I think the WLs can be strong without having huge muscle bulk.

Mythic could have given the female chosen a build like the Williams sisters - tall, strong, muscular but still feminine. Not hugely bulky with muscle but still obviously possessed of great physical power. Alternatively look at female sprinters in running or swimming.

[Xurré]

Lass I would like t' point out that yeh wear no armor, *chuckles* even so aneh armor yeh wear wouldn't 'elp yeh, meh 'ammer would jus' crush it an' yeh inside, so I guess yer more luckeh than yer other Elf counter parts, in anneh case yeh'll die all tha same lass
First you'll have to hit me with that clunky, old toy of yours. And all I need is a single cut, a pinprick. Can you dodge my whirling blades while swinging that cumbersome things around?

But it might make for some nice sport... perhaps I should get myself some dwarf slaves to toy with. Would be ever so amusing. Hmmmm...


- Xurré

[Thoden Firehammer]

As much as I like tha offer lass, i'll 'ave t' decline, 'owever i'll gladleh dew yeh tha faver o' not 'ittin yeh in tha face wit' meh 'ammer, but onleh so I can cut off yer pretteh wee 'ead an' 'ang it up as a tropheh! Oh .. an' who said I 'ad t' use one 'ammer, I could jus' as easeleh put that bad boy on meh back an' pull out meh other two 'ammers, I call that one Elgi dum an' tha other Unbaraki Uzkul.

Also lass, i'm covered in the finest Dawi chainmail, good luck cuttin meh! *chuckles*

(I'm defnitly making a Dark Elf too lol personaly anything that kills high elves i'm all for .. but first things first .. my dwarfs :D)

[Frein]

Why would anyone, of any gender, feel guilty for playing a fictional character of the opposite gender, for any reason? Seriously, feeling guilty about something like that is about as sensible as feeling guilty for liking ketchup better than mustard or vice-versa.
I'm not one to feel that way either, but I'm pretty sure it has happened a lot in past games. I swear there were lots of people playing mithra in FFXI "for the (insignificant) stats" while in truth they just wanted the pretty race but wouldn't normally cross dress if given an option. The statistics also support this belief as mithran females were and are by far the most male dominant female characters even though their stats are are the best only for one unpopular job, the thief. The lore states that mithran males are rare and not seen in the game because they are not allowed to leave their home land which the players may not currently visit.

Also, can someone enlighten me why female skaven would kill the lore more than... let's say male sorcerers? As far as I know, male sorcerers have to hide from the rest of the druchii society as Malekith does not allow them. Skaven on the other hand keep their females permanently drugged so they don't start thinking on their own, a fate very easy to change with some non-canon writing, of which there already is plenty in the game. Am I mistaken about something?

[Heno]

Skaven females are huge and bloated, unless we're going to roll over the enemy like some bizaree mix of Warhammer and Katamari Darcy, I don't see it happening.

That does sound awesome though.

[kharnage]

Also, can someone enlighten me why female skaven would kill the lore more than... let's say male sorcerers? As far as I know, male sorcerers have to hide from the rest of the druchii society as Malekith does not allow them. Skaven on the other hand keep their females permanently drugged so they don't start thinking on their own, a fate very easy to change with some non-canon writing, of which there already is plenty in the game. Am I mistaken about something?


No problem;).

Male Dark Elf sorcerers were totally fine not too long ago. I even have some of the minatures in my TT army. The thing about suppressing male dark elf sorcerers is fairly recent. It's not as if they never existed or don't now, they are just outlawed.

Female skaven on the other hand are (and always have been) huge breeders, unable to even move on thier own, much less do anything that would be something you could play in an mmo. The idea of a female skaven being anything other than a breeder is unthinkable to skaven society. I just don't see Mythic and GW changing the skavens so dramatically.

PS. We could start a new Skaven thread.

[kharnage]

"just as"??? :evil:


- Xurré

:oops:

my bad!!!!

[Frein]

Female skaven on the other hand are (and always have been) huge breeders, unable to even move on thier own, much less do anything that would be something you could play in an mmo. The idea of a female skaven being anything other than a breeder is unthinkable to skaven society. I just don't see Mythic and GW changing the skavens so dramatically.

Perhaps another thread isn't needed as the nature of female skaven isn't something you can discuss to great lengths I believe. Also, I doubt this thread will go anywhere anyway.

Anyway, what I wanted to know is that are female skaven born as huge bloated incubators or are they made that way by the male skaven? If the latter is true, I don't see why there couldn't be "normal" females for [insert non-canon reason].

Oh and if we could play Katamari Damacy in WAR, I'd roll female skaven right away. Nothing like rolling over troops of enemies and growing in the process. Finally I'd roll over the enemy capitols and crush them under my weight, absorbing their matter to further grow my body. :D

[Selandri]

Good question. If someone has the WFRP Skaven supplement they might be able to inform us, if not my copy should arrive... soon!

I hate living in NZ, rawr.

[kharnage]

Oh and if we could play Katamari Damacy in WAR, I'd roll female skaven right away. Nothing like rolling over troops of enemies and growing in the process. Finally I'd roll over the enemy capitols and crush them under my weight, absorbing their matter to further grow my body. :D


Do I hear spinoff???:)

That would be a nice addition to a skaven bloodbowl team too!

[Ilairon]

The females in Skaven society are used for breeding and nothing else. Whether they are genetically engineered to be docile and mindless or not isn't - to my recollection - mentioned in the WHFRP supplement on Skaven, but it makes it clear that however they enter the world they are immediately taken away and drugged and sedated. So female Skaven as a playable class would be impossible.

[Thrakkesh]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that part.

They basically just based them biologically on rats.

Do you have any idea how often a Rat is pregenent?

In the natural scope of things, a female rat is pregenant 90% of her life.

[Frein]

but it makes it clear that however they enter the world they are immediately taken away and drugged and sedated. So female Skaven as a playable class would be impossible.

I hate to push a point that I don't find very important, but how does that make female skaven as a playable class impossible? I could come up with a thousand different reasons to why female skaven X was not immediately taken away and drugged and sedated.

Anything from renegades forming their own clan to a new gray seer with new ideas rising to power. I don't know, someone with more fluff knowledge come up with something better. My point is that it doesn't matter what would happen in canon WH as WAR is not canon and can bend the fluff to suit itself as it pleases.

[Destcaz]

I hate to push a point that I don't find very important, but how does that make female skaven as a playable class impossible? I could come up with a thousand different reasons to why female skaven X was not immediately taken away and drugged and sedated.

Anything from renegades forming their own clan to a new gray seer with new ideas rising to power. I don't know, someone with more fluff knowledge come up with something better. My point is that it doesn't matter what would happen in canon WH as WAR is not canon and can bend the fluff to suit itself as it pleases.
I don't think the male skavens would let them fight with them for one thing. If they saw one they'd just knock them out, get them drugged up and send them back home to breed. Thats Skaven society. Why get one female warrior when they could have her make hundreds of male warriors?

And one gray seer wouldn't make a difference, the Council would probably have him killed if he were to talk about something as radical as that.

[Zihark]

Originally Posted by Noli me Tangere
Why would anyone, of any gender, feel guilty for playing a fictional character of the opposite gender, for any reason? Seriously, feeling guilty about something like that is about as sensible as feeling guilty for liking ketchup better than mustard or vice-versa.

Saw this post and had to reply to it. Well, I woudn't feel guilty at allplaying a female class as a male, but what I do know is that once i rolled a female class, I joined a guild later with this character. I don't know, but everyone called me "she" in the guild, and everyone assumed me to be a female, I don't know why since I never told them my sex (nor did they asked about it) but i know the majority of players playing feemale toons are still male.

In the end i told them im actually not a male, but a female. Everyone got angry for some reason and told me I "tricked" them even though I never told them if I was a girl or not. Anyway, since that time, I don't want to be msitaken for a girl again and lead more people to get dissapointed or/and angry for their assumptions.

[Noli me Tangere]

Saw this post and had to reply to it. Well, I woudn't feel guilty at allplaying a female class as a male, but what I do know is that once i rolled a female class, I joined a guild later with this character. I don't know, but everyone called me "she" in the guild, and everyone assumed me to be a female, I don't know why since I never told them my sex (nor did they asked about it) but i know the majority of players playing feemale toons are still male.

In the end i told them im actually not a male, but a female. Everyone got angry for some reason and told me I "tricked" them even though I never told them if I was a girl or not. Anyway, since that time, I don't want to be msitaken for a girl again and lead more people to get dissapointed or/and angry for their assumptions.



I can't imagine why they would have felt tricked. The people I'm currently in a Guild with never have really asked anyone's gender. If they offer it up, okay, fine. But then again, we're a roleplaying Guild at heart. we expect people to create a "character" they find interesting. Be it their own gender or otherwise. The two other Guilds I've been in have been pretty much along these lines as well.

I don't think anyone should be ashamed. And anyone that assumes gender, and then gets miffed, when they find out their assumption was wrong, is just silly. And not worth worrying about.

More than that, I never discuss actual gender. People may bring their's up, but, that's their business. I don't ask. I don't care. You'll generally find I, and most of my guild mates, in fact, refer to each other by the gender of the character we have logged on. Even when we just happen to know the gender of the person behind the wheel. We tend to refer to our characters rather than ourselves.

I don't care about the gender, race, religion, and whatever of the person behind the character in my guild, or that I'm grouping with. I do care that they're nice and fun to play with.

Likewise if someone wants to my gender, I don't answer. It's none of their business. It doesn't matter. What matters would be whether or not I'm relatively nice (I'm not, mind you), fun to group with (I'm mean, and often take advantage of people, actually), and whether or not I can play my role in a group setting or otherwise (I can't, or.. rather I don't try as I revel in getting other people in my group killed).

I'll leave it to you to sift out the sarcasm from the serious in all that.