GW Said So?

[Kuari]

I figured this deserved it's own discussion

OK, most things that GW flat out said no to, we were told they flat out said no.
With that in mind, with the current issue with female Chosen, it was said it would take time to get things right, and they didn't just want to add a female head and voice.
It is also known they TALKED with GW, but judging by the sounds of things, does it really sound like they flat out said no?

Maybe the reason Mythic themselves brought the female head/voice thing up and saying they didn't want to do it was because GW suggested it, but Mythic didn't like the idea. That's a possibility, I guess. What are other people's thoughts on this?

[Hatemonger]

I'd like to see something official on this rather then guess. I'm pretty confident that they simply 'okay'ed the idea after Mythic decided that females wouldn't capture the right iconic look.

Although seriously, why would they say no to this, and "yes" to all the other supposed 'lore changes'. It makes absolutely no sense.

Do you think they just suddenly decided, "Hey women can't be chaos warriors now" arbitrarily, after already allowing it in lore?

[Kuari]

Although seriously, why would they say no to this, and "yes" to all the other supposed 'lore changes'. It makes absolutely no sense.

That and the indirectness of the whole situation is why I think they just merely oked Mythic's decision..

[LookinGreen]

I think Mythic probably came out with concept art for them. Whether Mythic or GM said no to such concept art I don't know. I think that they probably both played a part but I voted for seeing something official from GW as it just makes more sense than speculating.

[enrin]

Not sure. Maybe a fantastic idea, but EA could have said: No, bring it to an end, personal, costs, releasedate.... okay, sounds silly. But in my opinion Mythic should have enough experience with DAoC and female toons playing customers, that they should known better.
And they should have the creative people to concept a female chosen.
Can't believe this explanation, really.. can't believe any explanation they brought :D

[illukar]

Not sure. Maybe a fantastic idea, but EA could have said: No, bring it to an end, personal, costs, releasedate.... okay, sounds silly. But in my opinion Mythic should have enough experience with DAoC and female toons playing customers, that they should known better.
And they should have the creative people to concept a female chosen.
Can't believe this explanation, really.. can't believe any explanation they brought :D

Didn't the original developer response state that they'd made this decision very early on in the design process. It's not something that came up late in the development and had any chance of impacting scheduling.

Anyway, it's pretty much a moot point at this stage. Wherever the decision came from, it's pretty clear that they think the class is cool, and that girl cooties would make it less cool.

[Oak]

Anyway, it's pretty much a moot point at this stage. Wherever the decision came from, it's pretty clear that they think the class is cool, and that girl cooties would make it less cool.

That made me LOL. :)

Chaos Chosen can't be female becasue of girl cooties.

[Azyrn]

I don't care anymore its been argued to death i would just like to see what was actually said between GW and Mythic.

[Kuari]

I'm confused why so many people think GW flat out said no. There is nothing that has been said that points to that. They never said they directly said no when they have said they did about other things. Why hide it?

Didn't the original developer response state that they'd made this decision very early on in the design process. It's not something that came up late in the development and had any chance of impacting scheduling.

Anyway, it's pretty much a moot point at this stage. Wherever the decision came from, it's pretty clear that they think the class is cool, and that girl cooties would make it less cool.

I've said this once, I'll say it again... we're not supposed to be sheep here. You dislike a decision, you're supposed to say something. Anyone who thinks that whatever Mythic decides is what's best, should, quite frankly, get the hell off these boards.. You want a good game? Learn to think for yourself. All I can say.

And illukar... maybe, but the fact remains that the only reason they made this decision was art issues. They have not said otherwise at least. Their so called art issues are kind of moot considering a couple of the pictures going around... not those overly cutesy ones... the ones that actually have bulk to them. but noooooooo, they don't look feminine enough..

[Selandri]

Because, Kuari, despite all the evidence posted to the contrary, a lot of folks will still join threads and say 'CHOSEN ARE MEN. NORSE WOMEN DO NOT FIGHT.'

People do not read. -Shrug-

Every time I post 'Slaanesh is NOT JUST ABOUT SEX', people respond with 'Yeah, no Chaos Chosen females. Unless it's Slaanesh. Cause you know Slaanesh looooves the booteh.'

I now have a head shaped dent in my desk and a headache from the Eye.

[Kuari]

Because, Kuari, despite all the evidence posted to the contrary, a lot of folks will still join threads and say 'CHOSEN ARE MEN. NORSE WOMEN DO NOT FIGHT.'

People do not read. -Shrug-

Every time I post 'Slaanesh is NOT JUST ABOUT SEX', people respond with 'Yeah, no Chaos Chosen females. Unless it's Slaanesh. Cause you know Slaanesh looooves the booteh.'

I now have a head shaped dent in my desk and a headache from the Eye.

One word about the Norse women thing that should get people to shut up but it doesn't seem like it does...

Valkyrie

But yeah, you're right... it's damn annoying... people have such one track minds half the time...
Still, now I REALLY want to see something official looking at the poll results thus far... especially those yes votes... I'd also like to see why some people think yes, especially since Mythic has been open with us so far. Why would they hide GW saying such a thing?

[gandk]

I find the idea that GW should have flat out said "NO" to female chosen laughable at best. It's possible that they saw some of mythics artwork/design sketches for female chosen and said no to that though.. But I really doubt it.

[Shacklock01]

tis really quite stupid, I mean Norse women arent petite little girls, they are just as big as your average guy.
I cant see GW telling Mythic they cant have Female Chosen. If it was Khorne maybe, but does the changer of ways give a crap if his chosen warriors have or not? (Hope that word wont get me banned?)

[Messk]

tis really quite stupid, I mean Norse women arent petite little girls, they are just as big as your average guy.
I cant see GW telling Mythic they cant have Female Chosen. If it was Khorne maybe, but does the changer of ways give a crap if his chosen warriors have or not? (Hope that word wont get me banned?)

Nah, Tzeench likes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tit_%28bird%29). He's about birds after all.

[Shacklock01]

Nah, Tzeench likes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tit_%28bird%29). He's about birds after all.

Attack my prettys! Attack! *Chosens swarm of Blue charge the enemy* Niice

[illukar]

I've said this once, I'll say it again... we're not supposed to be sheep here. You dislike a decision, you're supposed to say something. Anyone who thinks that whatever Mythic decides is what's best, should, quite frankly, get the hell off these boards.. You want a good game? Learn to think for yourself. All I can say.

And illukar... maybe, but the fact remains that the only reason they made this decision was art issues. They have not said otherwise at least. Their so called art issues are kind of moot considering a couple of the pictures going around... not those overly cutesy ones... the ones that actually have bulk to them. but noooooooo, they don't look feminine enough..

Heh - you misunderstand me. I'm all for discussing things and voicing disapproval. I think this decision sucks. But calling to know who made it (Mythic or GW) is lost energy. Even if they were willing to clarify that (which seems exceedingly unlikely), their partial explanations really do seem to come down to "butch chicks aren't iconic", which is patently too embarrassing a reason for them to attempt to explain any further. Identifying which person/group in Mythic/GW thinks butch chicks aren't iconic doesn't seem likely to further substantial discussion - it would only be guesswork on our part.

Since The Secret Life of Mobs comic expressed the silliness of no female Chosen extremely clearly, and the response to that, and to all the debate on the forums, was "Well, this is going to be one of those decisions people don't like", I really don't see that who exactly made the decision is anything but a moot point.

[My personal preference is that you should be able to pick whatever gender you prefer - since you should never see Chosen without their helmets on, that (and maybe some voice work) is all that is required - no different models at all. As I said in a post in a different thread, it's silly to think that when a female character puts on a breastplate that they found on a battlefield, that the heavens are shaken by the almighty SPUNG! as the nipples pop out on the chest.]

I would really love to see their failed female chosen concept art, though. They did, after all, say they tried to do it.

[kharnage]

I think Mythic and GW got together and figured out what they wanted to do for each race and each class.

Then I think Mythic went to GW and said "We can't make the female Chosen look right"

Then I think GW said fine, if it doesn't meet the standards of Mythic or GW, then leave them out.

Simple as that. Not a plot to ruin the lives of female gamers and couples, not a plot to get people to start a million threads about the same thing:rolleyes:, just an effort to maintain standards and produce an awesome game.

If it can't be done right (and of course, I know everyone but Mythic can do a female chosen perfectly :rolleyes:) then they decided they shouldn't do it.

I agree.

It's pretty simple, regardless how hard people try to make it.

[Fiendish]

I don't think they ever bothered to do a concept for female Chosen, I think they just got it in their head in the design phase of Chaos that they wouldn't be doing them and so no concept was ever done.

I sort of think that may be the case for Marauders as well but they have held off so long with any new concepts for them since the initial ones. However now I believe they may have rethought that stance and we'll see some new female concepts now, this month.

If a concept was done for female Chosen and rejected I sure would like to see it.

[Warboz]

Oh my GOD! Why everyone talks and whines about no female chosen? I mean, this forum slm, everyone! If it were up to me there would be no female warrior priest, no female dwarfs. In those days females place was at front of the stove! not in battlefields.

[Hatemonger]

This isn't a thread about whining about female Chosen. It is simply an opinion thread asking whether or not you think the decision originated from GW or Mythic ORIGINALLY.

Reading comprehension FTL. ;)

[Taarkor]

I'd like to see something offical on this rather than guess.

[Selandri]

If you wish to comment on 'females place during those days' please acquaint yourself with the Warhammer lore, or hell, even read all the quotes about females in the numerous other threads that it has been posted ad infinitum.

[Hatemonger]

I like the fact that people voting don't bother explaining why. :p

[Kuari]

I like the fact that people voting don't bother explaining why. :p

It IS annoying...

[V'raneth]

I'll explain then. I voted for having something official. The reason being that to me it doesn't matter whether it was Mythic's idea or GW's. It's wrong either way.

[Kuari]

I'll explain then. I voted for having something official. The reason being that to me it doesn't matter whether it was Mythic's idea or GW's. It's wrong either way.

True... very true..

[Ralzar]

Then I think Mythic went to GW and said "We can't make the female Chosen look right"

Then I think GW said fine, if it doesn't meet the standards of Mythic or GW, then leave them out.


Yeah, it was probably a bit more complicated and involved a few more factors, but that's basically what I think happened as well. It's just frustrating to not have it explained. This whole episode was handled badly from Mythics side. All that was really needed was a damage control post explaining what happened. I trust Mythic to make the right decisions (after all, the rest of the decisions thay've made have been awsome), but this is a really touchy point for a lot of people and came like lightining from a clear sky to a lot of us.

I just wish Mythic could make a post just giving us a little insight into the process and the reasons why. It would help a lot to calm people down. Some people would obviously still be raving lunatics, but on forums like this there's allways some lunatic raving about something :D

[AlienOverlord]

More information is always nice.

Of course, Mythic doesn't have to tell us every single detail about their decision making process but this topic has clearly had more people go "Huh?" than most other details about the game.

Perhaps even more than the Magus Disk? :) Though perhaps more people know about the disk than the gender specific classes at this point, they made much more hype about it in interviews. We only heard about the male-only Chosen from a comment in a Podcast.

[Ravana]

I think GW flat out said no to alot of things. They do around here.

*goes back and reads GW websites*

"Our friendly staff......"

LIARS ! Not friendly at all :mad:

[Nicx950]

I would like to see an official response on this...

Regardless, if you had a person in this armor and you couldn't see who's underneath, why would it matter, personally, to know what's underneath.

I personally want them to make chosen gender neutral, 'cos ya can't see them anyway. But then we'd have the whole Orc-discussion again, with "They look like males, ergo, they are males!".

If you would want them to make female chosen, what would they look like?

By the way, I'm of the opinion that they should wear helms at all times and they should always wear armor. Very little to change, and I think the SLM comic portrays the female chosen a bit too much femaleish (:p) when it should be a massive wall of death.

So if they implemented female chosen, what would it look like? And yes, we've seen that picture of someone trying to make a female chosen a bunch of times, but with a helmet, it would still look like a burly norseman.

It's a bit offtopic, but regardless, just what I think on the subject. I'd have an entirely different stance on this subject if you could actually see the gender (Warrior Priests, KotBS(PS. I don't understand folks complaining about KotBS when their patron God is Myrmidia, a goddess) Marauder).

Though I will most definately be shocked by the outcome of the marauder if they DO have females, for how will you maintain that grizzly barbarian feel?

Just my thoughts...

[Kuari]

Though I will most definately be shocked by the outcome of the marauder if they DO have females, for how will you maintain that grizzly barbarian feel?

By expecting them to be burly rather then eye candy

[loopgru]

To reiterate what I said in the hastily locked threat about the SLM comic:

Mark said
1) Josh's post was accurate but not expansive enough
2) The decision wasn't made based on problems in artistic development schedule.

Josh's said:

1) While the IP doesn't rule them out, female chosen don't (in his mind) fit with the "hulking, masculine figure" they're trying to represent in the game.
2) Again, in his opinion, there was no way to create an aesthetically acceptable female chosen- creating a demonstrably female / feminine incarnation of the chosen that conveyed the look and feel they're trying to present in the class is viewed as difficult or impossible.
3) The decision was consequently made by Mythic, and subsequently backed by their art and design department, and endorsed by GW.

Therefore:
1) The decision was not made out of requirements already existing in the IP. It was not a GW demand, it was a Mythic (pre-EA?) decision.
2) The decision was reached due to a conflict in the mind of developers between the "hulking, masculine figure" they envision for the class and the female gender, and, accordingly, the artistic challenge in reconciling those two things.

I don't think any of the above is opinion, just parsing statements into bullet points.

[Archin]

Humm where is the option for "I don't care"? The chosen is ment to look tough, men are tough.. woman just don't cut it.

[Ranti]

By expecting them to be burly rather then eye candy

That would require them making a new female model

If they use the Zealot/Magus Female model, which they probalby will do

It WILL be leaning more to the eye candy side

But, to me, i do hope they allow female maruders, but i am glade they don't have female chosen

in the case of the maruder it gives a different visual appeal. In the case of the female chosen it is redudant, especially considering that most people will turn there in game voices/music off after 1 month of hearing them, after that month all chosen are now just big hulking metal mosters, especially since they shouldn't be able to take their helmets off.

I think the point is that people think that not allowing female chosen is sexist?


Are these same people going to call foul when Mythic announces Witch Elves as a class, and that this class is female only? Or even worse, what if they don't directly call them witch elves, but rather hint they are witch elves, but call them disciples of kaine, and still make them female only? would you be equally mad?

I really really hope they make witch elves playable since it would give destruction equal numbers of male and female sexes

and don't even mention greenskins.....they are asexual, furthermore, goblins imho are more femenine than they are masculine, their voice is shrieky and not deep like borcs and choppas, so if you insist on giving them a sex, gobbos are female, and orcs are male. simple enough.

[Ranti]

This isn't a thread about whining about female Chosen. It is simply an opinion thread asking whether or not you think the decision originated from GW or Mythic ORIGINALLY.

Reading comprehension FTL. ;)

Which is just a way to complain about therr not being female chosen, even the OP in subsequent post has degenerated into female chosen whining.

apperently, reading the entire thread FTL

[Hatemonger]

This isn't the thread for this guys. Want to argue about female Chosen, go to the various locked topics and pretend like you're posting in them.

[AlienOverlord]

Therefore:
1) The decision was not made out of requirements already existing in the IP. It was not a GW demand, it was a Mythic (pre-EA?) decision.
2) The decision was reached due to a conflict in the mind of developers between the "hulking, masculine figure" they envision for the class and the female gender, and, accordingly, the artistic challenge in reconciling those two things.

Very good summary Loopgru. That is pretty much all the information that we have regarding the decision.

MANY of the people who posted in those locked threads would have been better off remembering these facts that you summarized. They were being overlooked far too often even though the facts were there for everyone to see.

I would still be interested in hearing an expansion on Josh's explaination if only because it would give more insight into the game development process Mythic underwent to lay the foundation for WAR. It's a fascinating thing to hear all the thought that goes into make these games, or pretty much any creative process.

I guess that's why those 'Making of' extras on DvDs are so popular :)

[Zakiya]

You forgot the option "I dont give a skaven's "

[Kuari]

You forgot the option "I dont give a skaven's "

Then go away

To reiterate what I said in the hastily locked threat about the SLM comic:

Mark said
1) Josh's post was accurate but not expansive enough
2) The decision wasn't made based on problems in artistic development schedule.

Josh's said:

1) While the IP doesn't rule them out, female chosen don't (in his mind) fit with the "hulking, masculine figure" they're trying to represent in the game.
2) Again, in his opinion, there was no way to create an aesthetically acceptable female chosen- creating a demonstrably female / feminine incarnation of the chosen that conveyed the look and feel they're trying to present in the class is viewed as difficult or impossible.
3) The decision was consequently made by Mythic, and subsequently backed by their art and design department, and endorsed by GW.

Therefore:
1) The decision was not made out of requirements already existing in the IP. It was not a GW demand, it was a Mythic (pre-EA?) decision.
2) The decision was reached due to a conflict in the mind of developers between the "hulking, masculine figure" they envision for the class and the female gender, and, accordingly, the artistic challenge in reconciling those two things.

I don't think any of the above is opinion, just parsing statements into bullet points.

Oh I know all that, just a lot of people including me don't agree with what's going on still

[loopgru]

Oh I know all that, just a lot of people including me don't agree with what's going on still

I absolutely, positively, 100% disagree with the stance they've taken on the topic. But that's not what this thread is about- my original post on the topic made that crystal clear, but I cut that part because it doesn't belong here.

This thread asks peoples' opinions on a question that has already been answered pretty clearly- was the decision re: Female Chosen EA-M's or something handed down from GW? That question has, to my mind, been answered.

Why does it matter? Pretty simple. If it were a GW decision, then any statements of disapproval to the devs would be so much wasted breath. As it's a Mythic decision, the feedback people give in this development process might actually be acted upon.

[Kuari]

Why does it matter? Pretty simple. If it were a GW decision, then any statements of disapproval to the devs would be so much wasted breath. As it's a Mythic decision, the feedback people give in this development process might actually be acted upon.

Exactly. I'm pretty sure GW just condoned it though judging by the way devs are talking... I'm surprised by the number of people who think otherwise.. Wonder how they'd react if they found out it wasn't a GW decision

[Lord Dobo]

I voted no because IMO yes made no sense. A yes would mean that GW would have been going against their lore in an exclusive way as opposed to an inclusive way as has been the direction they took with dwarves and WPs.

IMO, because of comments like the decision was made long ago, I think that it was something that they decided on their own and might not have even had to show GW a concept they were not going to put in. Who tries to get concepts that are already scrapped looked at?

I think they probably started out by listing all the things they knew about the classes they were tring to match up to their catagory concepts (like melee/tank) and when they settled on the chosen, they made out some bullet points that read like the hulk. Then, when they did some artistic sketch brainstorming, everything they drew looked too feminine, and would be a disservice to the IP. When they started looking at everything they already had, and the time table they set to do it in, they scrapped the idea of a female chosen, possibly thinking it wouldn't upset too many people, and just went on with the work they had to do, which was lots. They saw "the big picture" from the start, and being an internal audiance of hundreds and not the forums of thousands of opinions, probably had designs in with the elves that they thought would make up for it anyways.

Then time passes, people seem to be wanting them in, and now it's too late. Now they know that in order to launch, they need to get through all the betas and shows, gather all that info, continue to develop the elves and their areas, and work on getting the game spec down to good levels for the majority. They also have said that they will be working on the free expansion 6 months prior to launch, which means that additional resources, both monitary and manpower, are already allocated, and would be hard to use.

That, I think, is why they have reacted the way they do. They can't really say anything to us but, "sorry", and "we can't set aside the resources for it". Which is a shame, because seeing that new photoshop image gets me thinking that all it would take is some new torso armor per male set, some heads, and some voice work. Probably not as much as they thought would be needed to correct the problem some of us beleive is there.

But I don't think GW had anything to do with rejecting some concept art that probably died at the initial stages of development.

[Kuari]

If it was too late for Mythic to change things, why do the developers hang around? For @(@(s and giggles? They come here for feedback and to give out info I'm pretty sure... obviously if they get enough strong feed back, they'll consider changes, so DON'T start with the too late bull.

[Lord Dobo]

Calm down, calm down. I'm on your side, I want female chosen, and I think the photoshpped image is good.

But with around half a year left I think they are already starting to plan out the expansion as well as trying to finalize everything they already have. Looking back at how the first podcast showed very little of the map on the wall filled out, and how each of the video blogs seem to progress, I think it takes quite a bit of time to code everything and get all the departments working on the same things. They still have plans for the beta, which means that they already have a lot of the stuff in the dwarven/orcish and empire/chaos zones mostly done. All they are looking at there right now is polishing, bugs, and imbalance. With some anouncment coming out in august, I'm guessing we see some inital info on the elves (as well as other stuff), but that it takes them some time to impliment at of it. Then they need to beta that as well, make changes, start work on the expansion, and get ready for the stress test that comes with the major beta end phase and the later open betas. Then they start work on the first patches found by having a million people on after launch, as well as the balance changes they couldn't help but miss... it's a lot of work, and I'm not even a dev, that list is just off the top of my head.

My sincere wish is that they take a look at the photoshopped image and decide it's not too hard to do, that they can get a small team working on it, and that it either gets put in by launch, or that they will include it in an update. But I think that it will take some time. And they already gave us their anwser of not being able to allocate the resources to it.

Again... on your side.

[Kuari]

Oh I realized you were on my side on this, however, with how Mythic has been paying attention to the forums, makes me think that the only time hope is lost is if

A. People give up

or

B. Someone is trying to change a decision in a way that would break the lore...

This situation certainly isn't B, and I'm the stubborn type, so I don't want to see A.

[Lord Dobo]

Fair enough, but I think there is a time for every battle.

Right now, I think the message was loud and clear to them. Anything more on the forums might even be getting glossed over because they think they've seen all of this before. So this all becomes "white noise" to them. Frustrating? Yes.

But the best idea might be to take LookinGreen's advice and make an official petition with real signatures. Even then, I think we would still get the same reply, resources, etc.

Now, after launch, with the revenue from the retail sales and the subscriptions starting to make up the development costs, maybe we can get them to work on a patch. I don't think giving up is quite right, I know too many people will be affected by such a simple thing to not want it to be changed. Some of my best friends I've met online were astounding tanks, all women. It's for them I fight... myself I am unaffected... other than the screaming voice in my head that just says over and over... "the lore, the lore!!!"

[Kuari]

Fair enough, but I think there is a time for every battle.

Right now, I think the message was loud and clear to them. Anything more on the forums might even be getting glossed over because they think they've seen all of this before. So this all becomes "white noise" to them. Frustrating? Yes.

But the best idea might be to take LookinGreen's advice and make an official petition with real signatures. Even then, I think we would still get the same reply, resources, etc.

Now, after launch, with the revenue from the retail sales and the subscriptions starting to make up the development costs, maybe we can get them to work on a patch. I don't think giving up is quite right, I know too many people will be affected by such a simple thing to not want it to be changed. Some of my best friends I've met online were astounding tanks, all women. It's for them I fight... myself I am unaffected... other than the screaming voice in my head that just says over and over... "the lore, the lore!!!"

If I can find someone who can make a professional looking petition on the matter, I'd be willing to figure out the rest... I lack the skill in that department

[LookinGreen]

A real life petition wouldn't even get enough signatures, if people really want this changed before going to a petition they should at least send a snail mail letter to them. It shows more initiative then just logging online and ing for the sake of ing. It shows your concerned enough to take time out of you schedule to write, look for the address, and mail a letter. Now if the letter just translates that ing to another medium than no it won't accomplish anything.

[Kuari]

A real life petition wouldn't even get enough signatures, if people really want this changed before going to a petition they should at least send a snail mail letter to them. It shows more initiative then just logging online and ing for the sake of ing. It shows your concerned enough to take time out of you schedule to write, look for the address, and mail a letter. Now if the letter just translates that ing to another medium than no it won't accomplish anything.

I actually have some snail mail ready, just need to buy some stamps :D... in fact, I'd be willing to give out a basic template if it's requested of me.

4035 Ridge Top Road, Suite 800
Fairfax VA 22030

Is their mailing address

[Tro]

I'd like to see something official on this rather then guess. I'm pretty confident that they simply 'okay'ed the idea after Mythic decided that females wouldn't capture the right iconic look.

Although seriously, why would they say no to this, and "yes" to all the other supposed 'lore changes'. It makes absolutely no sense.

Do you think they just suddenly decided, "Hey women can't be chaos warriors now" arbitrarily, after already allowing it in lore?
but a few days ago someone had a pic of a female chosen. iam looking for it now. i want to post it on the WoW forums

[Vianne]

I'm absolutely positive it was not GWs decision. Sure, they ok'd it obviously.. But considering their history of open-mindedness I very much doubt it was their idea.

GW has always been supportive of artistic and creative freedom, quite often even encouraging it.

[madival]

hey since it is the changer of ways why couldnt he mutate all his chosen into guys? also you probobly couldnt tell under the armor if it was a guy or girl unless the armour was different (which it probobly woundnt be )

[Kuari]

hey since it is the changer of ways why couldnt he mutate all his chosen into guys? also you probobly couldnt tell under the armor if it was a guy or girl unless the armour was different (which it probobly woundnt be )

#1. Moot point as that isn't the explanation being used.
#2. Voices..
#3. Armor could be modified slightly.... there are examples beyond the cutesy out there... there only really needs to be as much difference as there is between a male and female troll, which isn't much, but is plenty.

[Pangscar]

You forgot the fourth choice:

Don't give a crap either way so long as the game is good

[Holmen]

First of all. No women, not even chaos ones, would want to be the one in the front line, taking a hell lot of damage.
Second, mythic said that Dark Elves will have female only classes, which makes sence. Some classes simply aren't suitable for one gender or the other.

[Thoden Firehammer]

* Edited for Content *

[Garthilk]

I can confirm that no female Chosen was not Games Workshops doing. This was the information relayed to me by Erik from GW, while at The Waaagh.

[AlienOverlord]

I can confirm that no female Chosen was not Games Workshops doing. This was the information relayed to me by Erik from GW, while at The Waaagh.
Wow. Thank you Garthilk! It's nice to have some closure regarding that question about this whole thing.

I was one of the people questioning Mythic's choice regarding Chosen but that was mostly because of the very odd reasonings they had presented. But after hearing the Fansite Gathering Q&A answer regarding the Marauder being male-only, I finally heard an answer that makes sense.

It all goes back to WAR is Batman (doesn't everything?).

The choice is not because it has anything to do with artistic limitations. It's not because it has anything to do with the lore. It's because Mythic/Mark Jacobs wants to do it this way. It's because this is Mythic's version of WAR.

It's kind of like joining a D&D campaign where the GM tells you he hates elves so no one can have an elf character. You might complain about it, but if you want to play in his game and if he's a really good enough GM then you won't mind the choice.

Mythic should have just used "GM's prerogative" rather than trying to rationalize their decision. They want a Warhammer universe where there are Dwarf women running around. They want one where Chaos leans toward a sausage-fest and the Empire leans toward equal-opportunity.

Like the various versions of Batman, it might not match with anything that has come before but it still has what makes the IP unique. WAR will not be the TT game by GW, it will not be the RPG. It will be the MMORPG by Mythic.

"GM's prerogative." That's a reason that I can grasp (even if I still think female Chosen would have been cool :mrgreen:)

[Warsaw]

* Edited for Content *

[Thoden Firehammer]

Hold on a second, i'm going to go rip that immage of a female Orc out of my mind.

[Kuari]

Wow. Thank you Garthilk! It's nice to have some closure regarding that question about this whole thing.

I was one of the people questioning Mythic's choice regarding Chosen but that was mostly because of the very odd reasonings they had presented. But after hearing the Fansite Gathering Q&A answer regarding the Marauder being male-only, I finally heard an answer that makes sense.

It all goes back to WAR is Batman (doesn't everything?).

The choice is not because it has anything to do with artistic limitations. It's not because it has anything to do with the lore. It's because Mythic/Mark Jacobs wants to do it this way. It's because this is Mythic's version of WAR.

It's kind of like joining a D&D campaign where the GM tells you he hates elves so no one can have an elf character. You might complain about it, but if you want to play in his game and if he's a really good enough GM then you won't mind the choice.

Mythic should have just used "GM's prerogative" rather than trying to rationalize their decision. They want a Warhammer universe where there are Dwarf women running around. They want one where Chaos leans toward a sausage-fest and the Empire leans toward equal-opportunity.

Like the various versions of Batman, it might not match with anything that has come before but it still has what makes the IP unique. WAR will not be the TT game by GW, it will not be the RPG. It will be the MMORPG by Mythic.

"GM's prerogative." That's a reason that I can grasp (even if I still think female Chosen would have been cool :mrgreen:)

See, the fact of the matter is though, it was art issues, not "GM's prerogative" as you say it.

And thanks Garthlik... nice finally knowing the truth to this... but gotta say, does make me more then just a little ticked at Mythic atm...

Oh, and Holmen, you're just being stereotypical, pure and simple..

[Drift3r]

First of all. No women, not even chaos ones, would want to be the one in the front line, taking a hell lot of damage.
Second, mythic said that Dark Elves will have female only classes, which makes sence. Some classes simply aren't suitable for one gender or the other.

You forget the part where they are all raving lunatics and grossly mutated/gifted by their Chaos gods. Sorry but your opinion is just that an opinion that you yourself hold. It bares no relation to the Warhammer world or real life in fact. I won't even point out how Dwarfs are not suitable for female classes in general or how Priest of Sigmar ( yeah Priest not Nuns ) are not suitable for female classes.

On top of all this Chaos corrupts everyone and everything with no exceptions period. This includes female Knights of the Blazing Sun in full plate armor and Female Priest of Sigmar with their half-plate armor even though they do not exist in Warhammer lore.

Once a person is tainted by Chaos they really could give turd about their general well being or adhering to common practices/stereotypes as their sole goal in life is now to please their Chaos god so as to ascend to deamonhood if they are lucky enough.

As for the decision I believe it was made by Mythic a long time ago. Frankly GW will only step in cases of extreme IP violations in terms of lore and despite their reputation they do allow a certain amount of freedom to work within the constraints of their IP. In other words GW would of never of said no to allowing Female Chosen/ Marauders but they also would not say no to Male only Chosen/Maraurders if Mythic presented them with a half decent excuse.......ie " soory our art department don't know how to draw th3 Chaos gurls".


P.S. As for the iconic line....Female dwarfs and Female Priest of Sigmar are not iconic. The first one is rarely if ever seen outside of dwarf holdings and the second one does not even exist in Warhammer lore period.

[Tremos]

Chaos has 2 gender specific classes.

Dark Elves will have atleast 1 class, maybe 2.

This is balance.

I hope this thread gets locked.

[Kuari]

Chaos has 2 gender specific classes.

Dark Elves will have atleast 1 class, maybe 2.

This is balance.

I hope this thread gets locked.

Greenskins have 4 gender specific.

Neuter, but they are a stereotypical male in every one of their personality traits and they look male. Nothing that says otherwise besides the lore saying they're neuter...

Either way, I have nothing against gender specific classes as long as there is a good reason for them... like Valkries... plenty of good reasons for those to be female only. On a Warhammer lore note, plenty of reason for Witch Elves to be gender specific and FAR FAR more reason for a Priest of Sigmar to be male only then there is reason for Chosen and Marauders to be male only.

The point is, at least have a lore reason for gender specific rather then say "hey, we don't feel like putting the time in this particular aspect, so let's not do it." Sure they are putting plenty of time into other things, can't deny that, but there is plenty of proof out there now that this was a very unnecessary decision for these classes.

Yes, fine, want a male gender specific class, make Priest of Sigmar male only. Want female specific? Make Witch Elves. Sheesh...

[Ranti]

Greenskins have 4 gender specific.

Neuter, but they are a stereotypical male in every one of their personality traits and they look male. Nothing that says otherwise besides the lore saying they're neuter...


If you consider neuter a gender, then all classes are gender restricted, because humans, elfs, and dwarfs can't be neuter

Please reconsider your flawed logic

neuter isn't a gender, it is the absence of gender.

Therefore, orcs are not gender restricted, they are gender-less

this is fundamentally different

And, you are being stereotypical, and if you apply that to orcs, it is equally fair to apply stereotyping to the chosen, in which case a stereotypical female is the exact opposite of the stereotypical chosen. In which case your post fails. If you make a standard, you need to consider applying it equally. If looking stereotypically male makes something male, then a female chosen is impossible, because chosen (large, strong, muscular, hulking) have all stereotypically male traits, thus making them MALE.

[Black Razor]

I think it went more like ..

Mythic: Our art department is having trouble with getting the feel of female Chosen still looking big and tough ... how do you feel about us just making males?

GW: Sure, thats fine.

.. I mean I haven't even seen Mythic say that their arn't female chosen in the 'games lore' .. they just arn't making them playable as a character for one slightly silly reason or another. I highly doubt GW ever said there are no female Chosen.

[Gorrr]

I chose the third one...

Even though they might not be any female chosen in the game, who cares!? We already know that fortunately, there are going to be no plate bikini like armor... well only for Witch Elves...

I guess what i m trying to say, does it matter what gender is the person under that armor, especially if you ll be wearing a helmet for 90% of your gametime?

People are making it such a big deal... i m pretty sure in FFXI there was a genderless race that was very tall and huge... dont remember what they are called. Replace the skin with awsome spiky and possibly bloody armor and here ya have Chosen!

[Disciple]

i think they said no, or left it up to mythic to say no. look at the IP. what kind of female chaos units are available? maguses? deamonettes? annd.....?

dead horse. plus the idea behind a chosen is to be built like a fridge...and i fyou want your female toon to be like that why not just make it male in the first place?

as for women wanting to play women chosen...am sorry but they dont exist in the ip and the ip must hold true.

[Ripper2.0]

honestly i think that female chosen would ruin the lore, yes there are female chaos but they are at a small percentage, very small, so when this game comes out i dont GW or mythic wants to see female chosen outnumbering chosen males, I am sure there are female chosen NPC

[Loekii]

How about they just write the Lore to say that once someone is transformed into a 'choosen' they become what we currently see in the game -- regardless of gender?

[Xerionox]

How about they just write the Lore to say that once someone is transformed into a 'chosen' they become what we currently see in the game -- regardless of gender?


I was thinking the exact same thing. If you ask me, once you become a Chosen your gender is pretty much null, and void.

So I like to think that the Chosen are like the Orcs, they really don't have a gender. If you wanted to get technical, the Chosen's body would so so warped, and corrupted by Chaos that it would no longer function as a human. So has no use for such things, and probably lose them entirely.

In all honesty I'm kinda surprised they didn't decide to do this, as I believe that it was indeed Mythic's decision to make the Chosen an all 'Male' class.

[jkdfhk]

We still going on about this thing?

[Earth Dragon]

How about they just write the Lore to say that once someone is transformed into a 'choosen' they become what we currently see in the game -- regardless of gender?

That's what I say. You can play a female if you want. Point is, they are going to be built like a linebacker on demonic steriods, because that is how the chaos gods want their frontline troops to be built.

I highly doubt it is the female gamers who want to really have all these options. It is the pervs that want to play as hot chicks in skimpy armor. Notice how there are other female only classes. Those should fit the billet. (And only would want a male witch elf)