Tomb Kings in WAR, questions

[Ignition]

Im fascinated with the lore of Tomb Kings and feel they would be a HUGE addition to the online game in the future. I know others advocate Skaven, Lizardmen etc. but IMO Tomb Kings would truly elevate the RP and interest aspects more than any other army.


Now, I rushed out and got the new Tomb Kings army book from Games Workshop. Previously, TK was merged with Vampire Counts in the Undead army book (which Ive lost unfort and its now out of print..)

First, Im looking for any lore books in print or out print dealing with Tomb Kings, anyone have a list?

Second, Ive engaged some hardcore Warhammer experts in discussions about how the TKs would fit into Order vs. Destro.

From my readings, although Nagash was quite evil, the TKs themselves were relatively chill even after they were awoken from the dead. Their sworn enemies seem to include Skaven (as I believe they aided Nagash at least initially) and the Greenskins as well as the Vampire counts.

Settra himself is written to rule over the undead legions of TKs (thousands upon thousands of risen kings and princes) and he was fairly just when alive.

Thus from my readings, TKs would be ORDER aligned or neutral and not Destro.

Would other agree with this assessment??

[Robglobgubob]

I get the impression Settra is an ego driven "living god" along the lines of Egyptian Pharaohs.

If you read the new Nagash book you will see that although the kings and champions treated each other fairly there was a large peasant and slave class present in the desert kingdoms.

I think the Tomb Kings would be aggressive towards both destruction and order. I think Settra would be attempting to conquer everyone and bring them under his rule if he were to field a full scale force.

[Vermin Lord]

I always got the impression that the Tomb Kings are evil, although in a more passive and neutral way when compared to the other evil races. Also, there's the point that they are royally pissed at the rest of the undead and all necromancers which kinda presents them in a good light. But i'd say that they're not better than the others, they just get out less.

[Ignition]

Its very difficult to really put Warhammer armies in the good vs. evil camp as both have good and evil elements throughout.

Forgetting good or evil alignment...
In terms of who the Tomb Kings would actively engage in combat, I would put Shaven, Greenskins and Vampire Counts at the very top of the list. I dont see much lore evidence of an active fight between the TKs and Empire-Bretonnia-Dwarves-High elves therefore would favor a TK being melded into Order, although perhaps not as enthusiastic about it as the others or such armies as the Lizardmen.

Agreed that Settra is an ego maniacal overlord, but my impression is pretty much all the races are lead by such despotic facist type governments.

[Aeviryn]

I love the Tomb Kings, been playing them for years. I am just not sure if they would fit into Order or Destruction since they are only really interested in themselves.

There was a fight between Empire and Tomb Kings from the Nemesis Crown campaign(not sure how canon the campaign was since I didn't play during it, but I know other summer campaigns have been worked into the lore)

http://nemesis.ca.games-workshop.com/introduction/armies/tomb_kings.htm
Objective - Settra’s spies have told him of the war engulfing the Old World, and he has ordered his dread fleets to set sail. The Tomb Kings shall regain those items stolen by the wizards of the Empire and other nations, whilst the weakling mortal races tear themselves apart in mutual destruction. With every Tomb Kings victory, another long-lost relic of Khemri is recovered.


I think if Tomb Kings were ever added to the game, it would be more as an objective for Order and Destruction to fight over the treasures while the Tomb Kings and their armies protect them.

[Direlord]

tomb kings really don't move far from their desert area. they would fight empire and maybe dwarfs but probably would never see elves of any type, chaos is to far north while TK is SE basically the world map chaos is the scandinavian countries while TK is egypt. both would have to go through europe to fight each other.

WAR wise how would you do the classes? princes or kings sound to few to be a class. lich could work as with hierophant. tomb guard maybe but i think all other creatures are essentially mindless. tomb scorpions are controlled by a lich built into them. bone giant and the living god statues guys probably would be too big.

with how undead are controlled i never did like the idea of any undead being playable as WAR

[Ignition]

Classes:
Tomb Guard- Tank
Liche Priest/Hierophant- Healer/RDPS
Construct-MDPS
Necromancer-magical RDPS/skeletal pet class

[Kazindir]

Thus from my readings, TKs would be ORDER aligned or neutral and not Destro.

Would other agree with this assessment??


I would agree that the Tomb Kings, like the Vampire Counts, have no real business being on either side. There is a wealth of things that could be done with both but making either join either side would be a terrible move in my opinion. The Vampire Counts are dfinitely verging on the cackly evil side of "destruction", but then they have in the past actually defended the Empire pretty well as well - if anything the Von Carsteins aren't so much interested in destroying the Empire as they are in taking it over, so joining destruction would make no sense whatsoever. Likewise you'd need to wield a heavy anti-lore hammer to shoehorn them into the Order side.

The Tomb Kings are essentially the same, only Order leaning rather than Destruction. The Tomb Kings largely aren't "cackly evil" at all, they're more like normal hman nations, most of whose population just happen to be dead. They definitely have no love for orcs (Nehekhara, pre-Nagash, had pretty much exterminated al the orcs in their area and Settra was most displeased when he woke up :mad: ) and they'd have little to no reason to ally with "barbarians" from the north or manipulative elves. Likewise, the Tomb Kings have gone in for the whole egyptian style raiding in Araby and occaisionally across the sea etc, so they're not goin to be that keen on the humans either, and the Empire certainly isn't going to be eager for ranks of the undead to start marching up and down the streets of Altdorf. :eek:

So I reckon they should be neutral by far, making them join a side would just be silly! There is a vast amount that could be done with both as factions though without making them join a side. (Actually, in general I think they need to avoid adding player factions entirely and expand on what they have got already - no point diluting things. EG expand the classes available to each existing race rather than shoehorn in a new race with a couple of classes - it's not like the tabletop is short of unit ideas. :D )

[Abzadrael]

Yeah I actually play Tomb Kings in WHFB, and I honestly don't think they would fit in with either Order or Destruction.

Settra cares for nothing but his own empire, and I'm pretty sure he is currently the "Supreme Ruler" of the undead known as the Tomb Kings.

Also, does anyone know what became of the General who was leading the TK's of old when Nagash attacked with full force? I know its Alexander something...

[Squeakyfish]

I would say they are Neutral in the same way prehaps Lizardmen are. they are very protective of their own land.

If they HAD to join one side, it would be order for sure, they hate Nagash for what he has done to their lands. Vampire's Originated from Nagash and id say the Vampire counts would be Destruction.

Classes could be:

Tomb Guard - Tank
Ushabti - MDPS
Liche Priest - Healer

Lore wise it would be very odd for forces of undead to be welcome on the streets of Altdorf id reckon ;)

However id still like to think that the Tomb Kings as an Order player race isnt impossible and would actually be a pleasure to play :)

[Kazindir]

Also, does anyone know what became of the General who was leading the TK's of old when Nagash attacked with full force? I know its Alexander something...

Alcadizaar? He died after killing Nagash in Nagazar - the sword the skaven gave him would have killed him eventually, but I think he had a period of staggering around going "oh crap" as he looked at what Nagash had done to Nehekhara.

IIRC it is in one of the stories inthe Tomb Kings army book. :)

[Hinty]

Tomb Kings do lean only very very slightly towards Order, but there is no way what so ever the Empire would fight alongside an undead force.

[Harlequin70]

Tomb Kings fall into that area of neutral we want to be left alone, go away or will crush you like the Wood Elves and the Lizardmen.

These races will only get involved in a conflict if it is directly against them or threatens their existance.

[Cave_Troll]

It really depends on how far you want to bend the lore.

Unlike Order, the other Destro races are not "working" together. They are fighting on different fronts, there is no reason as a Orc or Chaos you should really be in the Dark Elf tier locations. Even then the High elves and Empire are really the only ones allied together.

But as a game you need them all to come together, well because you want the game to be fun. So yea you could get away with a undead order or destro race, which IMHO they want add. Not with other races that would fit better into the game.


On another note I would love for a Necromancer class :P

I played undead as my original fantasy army, yep I still have them and the old army book. I was not happy with the splitting up of undead, I can see how it work from a lore stand point. I just hated the idea of a wet or dry undead army, plus I would have had to rebuild mine.

[Volkodlak]

I disagree, imagine having twenty lich priests running around Ostland for no reason?
That would be like making the Lord of Change a player class.

I already dislike the fact that theres a million bright wizards, but I guess that can be passed for the MMO experience.
But making people choose between a Lich Priest and a Tomb Guard, and making them both equal in powers in terms of play... No.

That would be like having Vampire Counts full of vampires :confused:


Races that should be added? Skaven and Bretonnians! I don't like lizards :rolleyes:


----

By the way on the undead split subject - I think it was brilliant!
Now you can have a transylvannia themed army or an egyptian themed army :d


<----5 Years of Vampire Counts :rolleyes:

[Hellzbellz]

Tomb Kings fall into that area of neutral we want to be left alone, go away or will crush you like the Wood Elves and the Lizardmen.

These races will only get involved in a conflict if it is directly against them or threatens their existance.

He is right. Period. Tomb Kings do not fight anyone else unless the other person started it or they have some grand scheme were they HAVE to fight the other person. Simmilar with the Vampire Counts. They will fight the Empire but they wont fight anyone else unless the other person started it. And they will only fight the Empire because they want to take it over. So they wouldnt really have a reason to side with Orcs or Chaos who want to utterly anihlate the empire or Dark Elves who are only using chaos and orcs as a matter of convience. That being said I would say Tomb Kings lean slightly towards Order and Vampire Counts slightly towards Destruction but they will not join them, on any circumstances.

Lizardmen likewise just chill out in their jungle homes unless A) they get attacked or B) The slann receive a vision that forces them to march. This happens very very rarely.

Wood Elves also hide out, attacking anyone who enters their homes however I could see them making an argument for wood Elves joining because they are freindly with Bretronea (an ally of the empire) and while they dont ever interact with the other elves they would favor High Elves over Dark Elves. They also hate orcs and Beastmen (a type of Chaos). ALthough they also hate Dwarves....

Ok that was long. But thats it.

[SilenzZzz]

i think the tomb kings would be a NPC race ... that is encountered in higher level events.

would be along the same lines as the necrons in 40k .. very cool race ... but they are basically an enemy to all and have no allies.

[grsaidimor]

i think the tomb kings would be a NPC race ... that is encountered in higher level events.

would be along the same lines as the necrons in 40k .. very cool race ... but they are basically an enemy to all and have no allies.

Yeah i agree but... Did you ever think of making a new faction except order and destruction? So there could be 3 factions to fight each other. More interesting i think.

[Waffles]

Yeah i agree but... Did you ever think of making a new faction except order and destruction? So there could be 3 factions to fight each other. More interesting i think.


Third faction!

Vampire Counts, Skaven and Tomb Kings.

VC's attack Empire in it's weakened state to try to conquer it, also attacks Chaos since they're in the way.
Tomb Kings attack Elves(both of them) to reclaim stolen artifacts.
Skaven attacks Dwarves/Greenskins to start their whole apocalypse thing or what not. I'm a bit rusty on Skaven.

Why would they be allied? No idea. But at least there would be Undead and Ratmen. :)

[Nathar]

Third faction!

Vampire Counts, Skaven and Tomb Kings.

VC's attack Empire in it's weakened state to try to conquer it, also attacks Chaos since they're in the way.
Tomb Kings attack Elves(both of them) to reclaim stolen artifacts.
Skaven attacks Dwarves/Greenskins to start their whole apocalypse thing or what not. I'm a bit rusty on Skaven.

Why would they be allied? No idea. But at least there would be Undead and Ratmen. :)

Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings are (im)mortal enemies. Don't be mistaken by the fact that both are undead they are about as massive enemies as chaos and humans. It's not like all the others work together beacuse they're alive anyway.

Won't ever happen. But Skaven and Vampire counts are not impossible to see allied although I doubt we'll see a third faction in this game at all.

[BlackGobbo]

Possibly in the near future, WAR could add Skaven and Tomb Kings to the roster. Those would be an AWESOME addition. They could even be a part of the "Neutral" category. They fight both Order and Destro.

[BlackGobbo]

Possibly in the near future, WAR could add Skaven and Tomb Kings to the roster. Those would be an AWESOME addition. They could even be a part of the "Neutral" category. They fight both Order and Destro.

I also forgot the Lizardmen. How could I forget them?! One of the most neutral factions of all time! gotta love em. They don't hate you, but if you do somethin bad, they'll kill you ;D