Witch Elf (Visual) Armor Progression

[Xurré]

(This thread is to be moved to the soon to be created Witch Elf sub-forum. ;))


Introduction

One of the issues that seems to be raised with Witch Elves is that people are having trouble seeing them having enough armor variety to make for enough different armors; to make for four tiers of armor progression. The argument being that they wear “chain-mail bikinis” and that you can’t do much of anything with that.

That seems a bit odd to me, because it seems to me that Witch Elves are one of the most varied in appearance of the dark elf units. Of course, people won’t just take my word for it (yeah, I don’t understand it either ;) ) and even though I feel I’ve proven it in the past I decided to do so again in great, irrefutable, detail. Hence this post.

I’ve been looking at the various Witch Elf miniatures (at Cool Mini or Not (http://www.coolminiornot.com/) because they show great close-ups of individual miniatures) and selected a number of them which best show the varied styles. I’ll then look at the various (potential) armor slots in turn, linking to images to show the possibilities for said slot. This means that you’ll see the same miniatures various times, but for each slot only focus on the piece that would make up that slot (so for the “torso” slot only look at the torso).

The slots I’ll be looking at in turn are: feet, legs, torso, hands/wrists, shoulders and head. I think this represents the various armor slots one generally sees in games. There could be more in WAR (belt, neck, fingers, back, etc), but the other slots tend to cover most of the body and it should be easy to see how these other slots could work.

This slot-by-slot investigation will only look at the official miniatures and as such will refrain from being ‘creative’ and looking for other possibilities. But after I’ve done that I’ll look at a number of other sources (both official and unofficial, both miniatures and art) to see how this could be expanded on. After all, none of the classes in the game will be restricted to only the appearance of the miniatures in the table-top game as I’m sure you’ll agree from looking at (the concept art of) the currently released classes.

Note that in all of this I’ll only be looking at appearance. Lately some have shown similar concern regarding the function of their armor, but I won’t look at that here (partly because that relies far too much on how exactly the game systems work). In the end when all is done I hope you’ll agree with me that Witch Elves have more than enough visual variety to make up various tiers of armor progression.


Armor Slots

As I noted in the introduction, in this section I’ll be looking at the various armor slots player characters could have and, for each in turn, look at the various styles of armor a Witch Elf could potentially wear in it. I’ll be looking at feet (which could include things like shoes and boots), legs (which could include things like pants and skirts), torso (which could include things like shirts and jackets), hands/wrists (which could include things like gloves and bracers), shoulders (which could include things like shoulder pads) and head (which could include things like helmets and crowns).

The miniatures I’ll be looking at here are the following:

Miniature 1 (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/85342)
Miniature 2 (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/15363)
Miniature 3 (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/49232)
Miniature 4 (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/40792)
Miniature 5 (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/53732)
Hag Miniature (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/9511)
Old Miniatures (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/150522)


Feet

Let’s start off with looking at a fairly standard looking Witch Elf: Miniature 1 (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/85342). As you can see this miniature has leather high boots (going up all the way to her thighs) with what could be plate or leather lower leg guards (in a segmented style). The boots are high-heeled and have studs along the top.

Miniature 2 (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/15363) has similar style boots as the first one, but this time it’s chain-mail instead of leather and the guards seem to be clearly metal (due to the paint job for the most part, but also due to the studs along the leg guards). Note that in this miniature it’s fairly clear that the plate guards only seem to guard the front of the legs.

Miniature 3 (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/49232) again has similarly high boots, but this time it seems to be almost completely chain-mail with no leg guards. The miniature wears the chain-mail almost like stockings (though it looks to thick and heavy to be stockings) including being held up by garter straps. For the rest she wears plate shoes (or low boots).

Miniature 4 (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/40792) shows two interesting styles. First there’s the high, leather boots, but with just a shin guard instead of a full lower-leg guard. The guard is also not segmented, but a straight-up piece of plate. The other leg shows what’s likely a leather shoe with some kind of vines or barbed wire (or just leather cords) wrapped around her leg. This miniature also shows another interesting thing: that you can mix-and-match, making the legs asymmetrical.

The Hag Miniature (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/9511) shows much lower boots (only knee-high), possibly made out of leather or maybe metal, with what looks to be metal, segmented shin guards (though depending on the paint-job that could be leather as well). It also shows some interesting decoration in the form of a skull as a knee-cap. Overall these boots show an overall more elaborate (and thus advanced) style.

Finally a look at some Old Miniatures (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/150522) shows a few other styles of boots: simple leather without the studs at the top and without any kinds of guards. They seem to come in two sizes at least (thigh-high and knee-high) and with a couple of decorations (skulls and what might be some jewel on the knees) with some showing cloth folded at the top.

Conclusion
Witch Elf miniatures seems to wear mostly boots of two heights, thigh-high and knee-high, as well as shoes. They come in leather and chain-mail and plate with various combinations of that (pure leather and pure chain-mail at least, and leather and chain-mail with plate guards for the lower legs and for just the shins). They can also have decorations (like the skulls) and different tops (smooth, wrapped and with studs).


Legs

Miniature 1 (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/85342) again shows the very basic style; a cloth loincloth of simple design going down past the knees. It seems to be attached to a (cloth) bikini bottom at the hips.

Miniature 5 (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/53732) shows a different style, which seems to be leather straps (with studs at the bottom) tied to the bikini bottom (which could be cloth or, possibly, leather) with what appears to be a chain of beads (or could be bones or metal links). The miniature also shows decoration in the skull at the top and the pained rune at the bottom.

The Hag Miniature (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/9511) shows a somewhat shorter version, smaller of the loincloth. And again it has a skull decoration. And though it’s arguable that it’s part of the top the miniature shows a more extensive leather mini-skirt (with studs) around the hips.

Finally the Old Miniatures (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/150522) show by far the most variety in styles. You’ve got a more ribbed cloth style, as well as the similar leather strips, but also a chain-mail loincloth and what appears to be a combination of leather and chain-mail. There’s also a variety of decorations in skulls (both single and multiple of them) and jewels (on the far left for example).

Conclusion
It seems Witch Elfs wear a loincloth attached to their bikini bottom as their ‘pants’. The loincloth seems to come in a couple of cloth styles as well as leather straps and even chain-mail. They include decorations such as skulls and jewels at the top, but also skulls and painted-on runes nearer the bottom. Finally there seems to be the possibility of a sort-of leather mini-skirt around the hips.


Torso

Miniature 1 (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/85342) wear a sort-of sarong-style wrapped halter-top with the cloth crossed in an X-shape across the breasts. The design is fairly simple without decorations, but the wrapping is interesting.

Miniature 2 (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/15363) however seems to have a fully plate-mail halter-top which doesn’t just cover her breasts but her entire chest (and upper-back). It almost looks as if someone took a full plate-mail armor and cut it off just above the mid-rif.

Miniature 3 (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/49232) shows another interesting style. This miniature seems to wear what appears to be a cloth or leather bikini with a scale-mail (or segmented plate-mail) cup, held in place by a leather strap, covering one breast. This miniature also includes decoration in the form of a rune at the front.

Miniature 5 (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/53732) has a simpler style of plate than miniature 2, with a cloth or leather halter-top (or possibly bikini) with metal cups covering the breasts. The cups have a saw-edge top and there seems to be some decoration (possibly jewels) at the front as well.

The Hag Miniature (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/9511) has quite a different style top, being more a corset than a halter-top or bikini, with a cloth or leather bodice and a metal top covering the breasts.

And finally the Old Miniatures (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/150522) show again a variety of styles with a more traditional cloth or leather bikini as well as the traditional chain-mail bikini styles. They also include a variety of decorations such as jewels and tassels at the front, and skulls as well (on one of the breasts).

Conclusion
The Witch Elf miniatures show a variety of tops in various bikini, halter-top and even corset-styles. Materials include cloth (and possibly leather), chain and plate. And the tops have a variety of decorations such as jewels, skulls, tassels and runes.


Hands/Wrists

Miniature 2 (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/15363) shows segmented metal bracelets going from the wrists to the elbow. The design is fairly simple, but one of them seems to have a slight V-shape to the segments on the back. Also note that due to the segmented nature if the hands were painted the same as the bracelets they would instead look like gloves.

Miniature 3 (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/49232) shows two different styles. One arm seems to be a fairly simple, smooth, metal bracelet going all the way around her arm and extending from her wrist to her elbow. The other seems to be a leather wrap around her arm with a metal guard. The guard in this case has spikes on it as decoration. And again note that depending on the paint the bracelets could be made to look like gloves.

Miniature 4 (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/40792) seems to just have leather guards strapped to her arms (possibly with a thin, metal covering). The design is again fairly simple and again could be painted such to look like gloves instead.

Miniature 5 (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/53732) shows that Witch Elves could also wear no bracelets or gloves or such at all, since her arms are completely bare.

The Old Miniatures (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/150522) show what looks to be shorter metal bracelets (only covering the wrist) as well as what looks to be leather, flared gloves.

Conclusion
Witch Elf miniatures wear mostly bracelets, though they could possibly be painted to look like gloves, in leather and metal both. The bracelets come in segmented style as well as smooth, and they come as bads surrounding the arms as well as in strapped-on guards style. Very little decoration has been shown in these, but they do seem to have the possibility of spikes to decorate. It’s also possible for them to wear no bracelets or gloves at all.


Shoulders

Miniature 2 (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/15363) shows plate shoulder guards. They have a V-shape that’s swept up as it moves away from the neck. it’s also fairly big in that it covers part of the chest (and upper back) and seems to have a collar around the neck. For the rest the design is fairly simple.

Miniature 3 (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/49232) has a similar-style metal shoulder guard, except that it’s not as big and only covers one shoulder (again showing the possibility for asymmetrical design).

The Hag Miniature (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/9511) has what looks to be more leather shoulder guards which compared to the previous two are fairly flat and a bit smaller again.

The Old Miniatures (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/150522) show some other styles in shoulder guards which aren’t swept-up and altogether simpler in design, and made possibly of leather or metal. They do show more decorations however in skulls and studs on some of them.

Conclusion
The variety of shoulder guards shown in the miniatures is probably least of all the armor slots, but there’s still a bit of variety. There’s several sizes and a few stles (swept up or not), as well as at least two possible materials (metal and leather). There’s also the possibility for some decorations with skulls and studs at least.


Head

I’ll start this one off with Miniature 2 (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/15363) because that one shows the simplest style. She wears what looks like an M-shaped tiara made of metal with no decorations.

Miniature 1 (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/85342) has the same style tiara, though it could be argued that in this case it could be leather instead of metal, with the most important difference being the skull decoration on the forehead. Also note the skull-shaped earrings, thoguh this is probably unrelated to the head slot (and would be the earring slot if there is such).

Miniature 4 (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/40792) shows again the same M-shaped style in metal (though I’ve also seen it painted in leather) with metal studs.

The Hag Miniature (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/9511) has by far the most elaborate head-dress, with a crown of high horns (in metal or bone) and other horns (probably bone) wrapped around those. She also shows decoration in the jewel on her forehead.

The Old Miniatures (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/150522) has a different style. Instead of an M-shaped tiara they seem to go for a more diamond-shaped one (again possibly in metal or hardened leather). They also show a variety of decorations in skulls and runes.

Conclusion
Witch Elf miniatures seem to wear tiaras on their head in either M-shape or a more diamond shape. They come in metal and, possibly, in leather as well with a bit of bone thrown in. Decorations include jewels and skulls and runes, and the more elaborate head-dresses include horns.

[Xurré]

Additional Inspirations

The previous section focused solely on existing, unmodified, official miniatures. But that’s hardly the only inspiration one can draw for the appearance of Witch Elves. As such this section will look at a variety of other sources, both official and unofficial, to see what other styles and varieties can be included for Witch Elves.

I’ll handle this in two parts; one looking at additional miniatures and one looking at artwork. And for this I’ll look at them on a case-by-case basis instead of looking on it at a slot-by-slot basis as I did in the previous section.


Miniatures

The first one I want to take a look at is an official, old Blood Bowl Witch Elf (http://www.francebloodbowl.com/img/figurines/4.jpg). Though the image is rather small (I couldn’t find a better one) it does show a few interesting additional options. The boots are adorned with skulls, there is no loincloth, the top is a full chain-mail bodice and the gloves are longer (past the elbow).

This miniature (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/28018) is a modified version of miniature 4 above. For one it shows how the hands can be painted to look like gloves (with arm guards in this case) and how the hair-dress can be painted to look like studded leather. But more interesting is that instead of wearing a loincloth she wears what looks more like a skirt with a wide split along one side (and a shorter one along the other). This makes for an interestingly different look that doesn’t get in the way of the general Witch Elf style (and doesn’t look like it might pose problems with mobility).

Then this Dark Elf Witch (http://miniature-painting.net/Warhammer/GW_darkelf_witch_right.jpg) shows again the different shoe/boot configuration with the thorn vines around the leg. But more interesting perhaps is that she wears a (cloth?) bathing-suit style bodice and no loincloth at all. She also has a spike on her shoulder guard. Of course it could be argued (due to the staff) that this is more a Sorceress than a Witch Elf.

Another Witch Elf Hag (http://coolminiornot.com/index/whatc/Fantasy/id/69746) miniature wears what looks more like skin-tight leather (as opposed to hardened leather for armor) for both her ‘boots’ (more like stockings) and her top. And again no loincloth. She also wears a different style bracelets and no shoulder guards or head-dress.

A similar style of clothing is worn by this Anime Witch Elf figurine (http://www.figurepainters.com/old_site/warhammer/darkelf/pictures/witchelfandskaven.jpg); skin-tight fabric for the ‘boots’ and the bodice (with an open front) and similar for bracelets. And again no shoulder guards or head-dress.


Artwork

The cover of the old dark elves army book (http://www.eilistraee.com/a/darkelvesarmybook.jpg) shows us a Witch Elf wearing a loincloth of leather straps with studs, including a decorated crotch guard and a string of beads holding it up. Also notice the flesh hooks (which are also shown in some of the current artwork (http://uk.games-workshop.com/darkelves/artwork/images/big-11.jpg); though more clearly visible in the book itself) from her belt for hanging trophies on. She also wears a different style of metal bra, being just cups covering her breasts, with one of the cups showing a fairly ornate design covering it. She also has spikes from her bracelets and a rune design on her head-dress.

An image from inside the old book (http://www.eilistraee.com/a/witchelf.jpg) shows a few additional things. Her boots are knee-high leather with segmented metal scales covering the front and skull decorations. But more interesting is the metal blades adorning the sides of her boots. She has a chain-mail belt around her waist holding up the leather (or cloth) strips loincloth, which are decorated with runes and metal skulls on the ends. Her shoulder guard sports a number of nasty looking spikes, as does her head-dress which is further adorned with a skull design.

Another image from the book (http://www.eilistraee.com/a/witchelf2.jpg) shows a Witch Elf with a yet again slightly different design. Her leather boots are slightly over knee-high with the leg guards sporting spikes and a skull design. She wears a wide belt (with a skull design) which holds a large multitude of thin, studded leather straps as loincloth. Her top also seems to be more of a strapless bodice, adorned with a chain. She wears what looks like finger-less, long-sleeved, metal gloves and fairly simple-design shoulder guards. Her head-dress is also slightly different from the styles seen before with leather straps holding a skull on her forehead.

Perhaps not official, but definitely of interest to us are the concept art (http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/behindTheScenes/theMakingOf/images/WH_Movie_2006/dark_elf_witch_01.jpg) and renders (http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/behindTheScenes/theMakingOf/images/WH_Movie_2006/WH_Dark_Elf_v03_01.jpg) of the Witch Elf shown in the WAR cinematic movie. This Witch Elf wears an interesting style segmented metal (over leather), thigh-high boots with one boot having a sort of V-shaped fins pointing up towards the hip. Her loincloth is fairly short, but otherwise of a studded leather straps style with crotch ornament already seen before. She also has what could possibly the smallest bra seen yet, in a V-shape covering only the lower-half of her (rather big) breasts, looking almost like a pair of wings. She has a thin arm guard with spikes covering one of her arms, and her shoulder guards point up fairly high. Finally she has an M-shaped hair-dress, but it’s a fair bit bigger than the ones seen in the miniatures (and more textured).

Other fan-created images include one called Fury of Nightblades (http://www.angel3d.ch/content/digital_paintings/GWS%20concept%20miniseries/fury%20of%20nightblades.jpg), which shows an altogether different material approach to Witch Elf armor as the Witches wear armor that seem to almost entirely be made of bone. The boots are quite intricate (and spike-y) stopping just below the knee. They wear a fairly simple cloth loincloth, but their bras are fairly intricate again as are their shoulder guards and (spiked) bracelets. But perhaps most intricate of all are their head-dresses which almost seem like crowns of carved bone. Overall something along these lines could make a nice looking bone armor set.

Finally there are two more Witch Elf fan images (image 1 (http://www.jaestudio.com/WitchElves.jpg), image 2[/url) which show a few other varying details. Like more segmented boots and bracelets with fins and spikes, different style shoulder pads and a different style head-dress.


Conclusion

It seems that even by just looking at the miniatures there’s a wide variety of styles, materials and decorations available. One could possibly already make several tiers worth of armor based on the miniatures alone. For example, one could have a material-based progression roughly along the lines of cloth→leather→chain-mail→plate.

Boots for example could start with simple leather, then leather with metal guards, then chain-mail (maybe with leather guards) and finally chain-mail with metal guards. Pants (or loincloths really) could start as simple cloth, then leather straps, then simple chain-mail and finally a combination of leather and chain-mail. And the torso could be cloth wraps, then leather bras, then chain-mail bikinis and finally plate.

There’s also differences in sizes that could be used to make the progression even more obvious. Boots come in shoes (the first pair one could get could be the leather shoes with the barbed-wire wrapped around the leg for example), knee-high boot and thigh-high boots. Loincloths come in short and long varieties and the tops go from covering very little to covering almost the entire chest-area.

And finally there’s various kinds of decorations that could be applied as one goes higher up in level. The simplest kinds would have no decoration at all, then would come studs, then things like jewels and skulls and runes. Add in some spikes here and there and one should be pretty set.

Of course, artist don’t have to stick to just what the miniatures show.

If one goes beyond the miniature range then one can find an even wider variety of Witch Elf appearances, including more and different kinds of spikes and fins, different styles for every slot, and various kinds of ornamentation and decoration. Even some suggestion of different material like the bone-looking armor of the Nightblades. And that’s just sticking to existing artwork. It shouldn’t be too hard to see how one can come to an even wider variety by mixing and matching different styles and ideas or even trying new things (like tube-tops, bustiers, chemises, camisoles, etc for the top), different materials (like [url=http://www.ladybarbarella.com/images/prod/mink_fur_bra_and_thong_2_web.jpg]fur (http://www.carbonmatter.com/images/WitchElves.jpg)), etc. One can also get a lot of inspiration by searching Google Images for “chainmail bikini (http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=chainmail%20bikini&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi)”. :p

All in all there is a huge variety in different Witch Elf styles and possible armor configurations and shapes and materials and details, etc. The above linked images and detailed descriptions prove this, so hopefully this will help put the argument that Witch Elves don’t have enough visual appearance variety to rest.

If anything, it’s going to be hard to decide what to limit oneself to. ;)


- Xurré

[Illya]

I stand corrected. I'm rather impressed, at the length and amount of possibilities you've shown, Xurré, and I for one will hereby drop the argument that visual armour progression is too hard for Witch Elves. You've proven your point.

I do, however, reserve the right to laugh cruelly and maliciously (as is becoming any true druchii) if Witch Elves don't actually make it into the game. ;)

[DownPhoenix]

Wow, that was yet another highly informative post Xurre. Personally, I'm fine with Witch Elves being in the game and until I can hear some facts about the finalized classes I can't really make up my mind which I'm going to want to play. That said, I'm sure Mythic won't disappoint on the Dark Elves at all come next month's reveal.

[Noli me Tangere]

Another thing I noticed was the great number of Dark Elfy hairstyles. This Image (http://miniature-painting.net/Warhammer/GW_darkelf_witch_right.jpg) for example, was my favorite, with the crazy braids tipped with skulls. :mrgreen:

I'm not sure fan art like This other Image (http://www.angel3d.ch/content/digital_paintings/GWS%20concept%20miniseries/fury%20of%20nightblades.jpg) can really be counted as an example. But the miniatures in the original post(s) surely seem to show a few possibilities, at least. Mostly though, I just think if some of the weird hairstyles shown here actually end up in the game, it'll be a real change from some MMOs. In a good way.

[Kerveth]

Another ace arguement for Witch Elves, No longer will people claim that they are totally impractical for WAR :).

[Gloovish]

Oh boy not again. Xurré I feel sorry for you if Witch Elfs aren't in. /cry
If you did this for fun and/or to try to convince forum readers WEs are in then good job. On the other hand if you are trying to sway the devs to include WEs(if the haven't already) then it's pointless. The decision has been made internally a while ago and it's too late to change it at this point. Anyways /fingers crossed :p

P.S.

All in all these is a huge variety in different Witch Elf styles and possible armor configurations and shapes and materials and details, etc. The above linked images and detailed descriptions proof this, so hopefully this will help put the argument that Witch Elves don’t have enough visual appearance variety to rest.

1) should be "there"
2)should be "prove"

[Zoatibix]

(Temporarily stunned into disbelieving silence, Zoatibix merely giggled while sipping Blood Tea.)

Kudos, Xurre. :cool:

PS I hadn't seen those Renders from WAR. They are awesome. If the Brides look like that they will rock.

[dutch_gamer]

Great post, Xurré.

[Thoden Firehammer]

Yes great post, but i'd personaly hate to see that you've jumped the gun on this, so to speak.

[dampunge]

damn Xurré, either your are a psyko or a genius:D:D:D

i'm really impresed, great work

cheers

[Taurth]

I'm not sure fan art like This other Image (http://www.angel3d.ch/content/digital_paintings/GWS%20concept%20miniseries/fury%20of%20nightblades.jpg) can really be counted as an example. But the miniatures in the original post(s) surely seem to show a few possibilities, at least. Mostly though, I just think if some of the weird hairstyles shown here actually end up in the game, it'll be a real change from some MMOs. In a good way.


I don't see why, since all other classes armour has been extremely loosely based on the miniatures. If armour like shown in that fan-art looks like it would work for Witch Elves, why shouldn't it be counted as a valid example?

Its like saying this (http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/images/conceptArt/CA0707_03.jpg) Marauder concept art isn't a valid example of what a Marauder would look like since the miniatures (http://uk.games-workshop.com/hordesofchaos/miniature-gallery/images/marauders.gif) armour looks different.

Anyway, extremely good post Xurré. Very impressive.

[Xurré]

Oh boy not again. Xurré I feel sorry for you if Witch Elfs aren't in. /cry
If you did this for fun and/or to try to convince forum readers WEs are in then good job. On the other hand if you are trying to sway the devs to include WEs(if the haven't already) then it's pointless. The decision has been made internally a while ago and it's too late to change it at this point. Anyways /fingers crossed :p
I'm not trying to sway the devs. I know that they've already decided. I'm doing it because I enjoy doing it (enjoy theorizing and such) and to show people how things could work.

Besides, I got to look at Witch Elf miniatures and artwork for an afternoon or so, so it was win-win for me. ;)

P.S.

1) should be "there"
2)should be "prove"
Thanks, fixed.


damn Xurré, either your are a psyko or a genius:D:D:D
A psycho genius of course... I mean, aren't all Witch Elves? :p


And thanks everyone for the nice comments. Definitely makes it worth the effort. :D


- Xurré

[Noli me Tangere]

Its like saying this (http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/images/conceptArt/CA0707_03.jpg) Marauder concept art isn't a valid example of what a Marauder would look like since the miniatures (http://uk.games-workshop.com/hordesofchaos/miniature-gallery/images/marauders.gif) armour looks different.
The Marauder concept art for the game is just that, concept art for the game. Concept art is concept art. Fan art is fan art.

Other fan-created images include one called Fury of Nightblades (http://www.angel3d.ch/content/digital_paintings/GWS%20concept%20miniseries/fury%20of%20nightblades.jpg), which shows an altogether different material approach to Witch Elf armor as the Witches wear armor that seem to almost entirely be made of bone.

Fan Art.

[V'raneth]

It's always funny to see the tremendous effort required to make people see the obvious. :p

[Black Razor]

I'll add a point also.... a lot of people make comparison to already released DPS classes and there amount of armor saying that a Witch Elf would be wearing no armor by comparison... however take a look at this Marauder miniature (http://home.hetnet.nl/%7Ehobgoblin/CMON/cmonmarauder.jpg) which I think is a fair representation of the games Marauder (http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/images/conceptArt/CA0707_02.jpg) (other then the lack of a claw hand). How much protection does he actually have? Shoulder, legs, boots, and helmet... possibly some limited torso protection but thats an iffy call. Now compare that to one of the Witch Elf Miniatures (http://www.coolminiornot.com/pics/pics7/img4249caae55d07.jpg) that Xurre linked. She has shoulders, arms, legs, feet, forearms, limited chest and head armor showing .. hardly less then the marauder. So does that make the Marauder a naked fighter also? And does that mean the Marauder will be limited in his progression as well?

[GhostStalker]

Well, this thread has definatly shown me that it's possible to have witchelf armor variates instead of going with floss like armor for the entire tier progression. Good read. Though I wonder what will happen to you X, when elf information gets released, and there is no witchelf :o

[Zoatibix]

We will laugh, because you'll be out of a job.

Geddit? You're a Witch hunter...and there wouldn't be....any...um....

Look! Spiderpig! /point /run

[Xurré]

It's always funny to see the tremendous effort required to make people see the obvious. :p
Tell me about it. :roll:

Though I wonder what will happen to you X, when elf information gets released, and there is no witchelf :o
I think the question is: what would happen to Paul (& co)? :twisted:

Seriously though, I'll just (regretfully) move on.


- Xurré

[Eltair Shadowblade]

HOLY %^# , nice thread Xurre:p

guss you just convinced me, partly;)

[Illya]

I think the question is: what would happen to Paul (& co)? :twisted:


If corsairs were in instead of Witch Elves, I'd send them a case of expensive champagne. And I'd laugh at you. But that wouldn't take away the fact you did a good job on this thread, it'd just make me happy it was all in vain.

[Taurth]

The Marauder concept art for the game is just that, concept art for the game. Concept art is concept art. Fan art is fan art.



Fan Art.


I don't really see your point. So what if its fan art? The Witch Elves in the pictures look like they're wearing "Witch Elfy" type cloths, so why can't it be used as a valid example? Its a picture that Mythic may take inspiration from when designing Witch Elf armour, because its similar to the cloths some of the Witch Elf miniatures wear.

What I'm getting at is, the difference in the Marauder concept art compared to the Marauder miniatures is almost the same as the difference in that fan art picture compared to the Witch Elf miniatures; so using that fan art wouldn't be too much of a stretch considering that Mythic may design some Witch Elf armour that strays away from the look of the miniature just enough for it to look like the armour in that fan art. So therefor I think Xurré using it as an example of what Witch Elf armour may look like isn't invalid simply because of the fact that its fan art and not something official.

[Zoatibix]

If corsairs were in instead of Witch Elves, I'd send them a case of expensive champagne. And I'd laugh at you. But that wouldn't take away the fact you did a good job on this thread, it'd just make me happy it was all in vain.

I note the complete lack of 'because I want to play a Corsair because they're cool.' :lol:

[Illya]

Hehe.

I'd assume you know that by now. It's not a dislike for Witch Elves, it's that I'd rather see Corsairs than Witch Elves, but I haven't got much hope left. If they take away cold one knights (with or without mounts) in favour of the Black Guard, well.

Unless the other four classes are very, very well done, I'll be on my Witch Hunter instead.

[Mogdin Wrathammer]

Hm. I'd assume it would be something more like:

Skimpy, skimpier, a lot skimpier, skimpiest.

[The Disciple]

Excellent thread once again Xurré.

[Dallyoop]

/cheer - awsome post and a good read. thanks for the info! musta taken forever to link all those pics.

[Saerain]

I didn't much care for the Witch Elf in the cinematic trailer or the demonstrative renders. Then again, I didn't like the High Elven Mage, either. But I don't think that 'beautiful, sexy, graceful, sadomasochistic, hedonistic, and fanatical' equates to such a grungy appearance, and the art at Games Workshop seems to support me. In comparison to such art, the maiden in the trailer seemed fresh out of something like a Hollywood-produced hardcore mud-wrestling porn, if such a thing were to exist. Like her opponent, she was very human.

I can think of much sexier looks for them than stilettos and leather buttfloss. This sketch of Morathi (http://oz.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/darkelves/extras/conceptart/images/morathiartlarge.jpg) is a good example of actually bringing beauty and grace into the mix, and Crone Hellebron (http://hiddencourt.net/images/Hellebron.jpg), and I refer to their body shapes and their faces more than simply their poses. The one in the trailer is simply a woman with a bit of metal and gnarled, mutated ears.

Anyway, before I go off on a tangent, the most iconic point for the Witch Elves would be the bare abdomen, I think. There is possibly nothing more cheekily 'You cannot harm me, for I am a Bride of Khaine!' about leaping into battle baring the most vulnerable area that any warrior would be quickest to armour. Coming out unscathed from that is a large part of what solidifies their faith, I would think.

[Noli me Tangere]

I didn't much care for the Witch Elf in the cinematic trailer or the demonstrative renders. Then again, I didn't like the High Elven Mage, either. But I don't think that 'beautiful, sexy, graceful, sadomasochistic, hedonistic, and fanatical' equates to such a grungy appearance, and the art at Games Workshop seems to support me. In comparison to such art, the maiden in the trailer seemed fresh out of something like a Hollywood-produced hardcore mud-wrestling porn, if such a thing were to exist. Like her opponent, she was very human.

I can think of much sexier looks for them than stilettos and leather buttfloss. This sketch of Morathi (http://oz.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/darkelves/extras/conceptart/images/morathiartlarge.jpg) is a good example of actually bringing beauty and grace into the mix, and Crone Hellebron (http://hiddencourt.net/images/Hellebron.jpg), and I refer to their body shapes and their faces more than simply their poses. The one in the trailer is simply a woman with a bit of metal and gnarled, mutated ears.

Anyway, before I go off on a tangent, the most iconic point for the Witch Elves would be the bare abdomen, I think. There is possibly nothing more cheekily 'You cannot harm me, for I am a Bride of Khaine!' about leaping into battle baring the most vulnerable area that any warrior would be quickest to armour. Coming out unscathed from that is a large part of what solidifies their faith, I would think.

It is of note, they did say the style in the Trailer wasn't necessarily representative of what they're going for in the game.

[Xurré]

I didn't much care for the Witch Elf in the cinematic trailer or the demonstrative renders. Then again, I didn't like the High Elven Mage, either. But I don't think that 'beautiful, sexy, graceful, sadomasochistic, hedonistic, and fanatical' equates to such a grungy appearance, and the art at Games Workshop seems to support me. In comparison to such art, the maiden in the trailer seemed fresh out of something like a Hollywood-produced hardcore mud-wrestling porn, if such a thing were to exist. Like her opponent, she was very human.

I can think of much sexier looks for them than stilettos and leather buttfloss. This sketch of Morathi (http://oz.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/darkelves/extras/conceptart/images/morathiartlarge.jpg) is a good example of actually bringing beauty and grace into the mix, and Crone Hellebron (http://hiddencourt.net/images/Hellebron.jpg), and I refer to their body shapes and their faces more than simply their poses. The one in the trailer is simply a woman with a bit of metal and gnarled, mutated ears.
I agree, but I didn't link those images so much to show how Witch Elves should look and more just as a source for inspiration. The elves in the trailer indeed look way too human; but it was much more about the outfit than the body shape.

Anyway, before I go off on a tangent, the most iconic point for the Witch Elves would be the bare abdomen, I think. There is possibly nothing more cheekily 'You cannot harm me, for I am a Bride of Khaine!' about leaping into battle baring the most vulnerable area that any warrior would be quickest to armour. Coming out unscathed from that is a large part of what solidifies their faith, I would think.
I agree. There are some styles which do cover the abdomen (like that Hag miniature with the Cauldron of Blood), but I think that style is going much more towards Sorceresses; I'd expect most of the Witch Elf outfits to keep the abdomen bare.


- Xurré

[Thoden Firehammer]

I note the complete lack of 'because I want to play a Corsair because they're cool.' :lol:

Well arn't all these posts just reasons and excuses for yall wanting to play Witch Elf?

people want what they want, i'm currious as to what choice Mythic is going to make.

[Zoatibix]

Well arn't all these posts just reasons and excuses for yall wanting to play Witch Elf?

Yes, because I want to play a Witch Elf as my main.

I seen some people arguing for Corsairs because they want to play a Corsair as their main. This is cool, IMO. If Corsairs make the cut and I see lots of people running around playing Corsairs, I'd gain comfort from the fact that lots of people were enjoying the class and I'd think 'Hey, I guess Mythic knew better than me.'

I've seen people arguing for Corsairs over WE's because they'd like a DE DPS as an alt. I kinda think that if you've already chosen a main like a Chosen or WH (purly first two classes I thought of) then I don't see why it is so important to them to get Corsairs over Witch Elves.

This is of course completely silly of me and I recognise that. :rolleyes:

Then there's the 'I don't want Witch Elves because they will attract the WoW Kiddies to my game' brigade. Some of these people don't seem to want to play a Dark Elf in any way, shape or form as long as this supposed plague of rugrats doesn't mess up their precious ideal of what the game should be.

Yeah, there will be some kiddies but I think the tone and playstyle of WAR will either mold them into the kind of players that like WAR or they will got back to other games.

Sorry for the minirant. I just get knarked about this sometimes.

[Joeydevil]

The only problem I have with the Witch Elf only idea is that it is female only. If it was some kind of Assassin/Witch Elf Combo I would be giddy. I want to play a melee DPS class and I want to be a Dark Elf. I also want to play a male. How ever you get these accomplished to me will be great.

[Zoatibix]

Well, the 'Disciple of Khaine' idea has been bandied about for a long time.

If male it looks like and Assassin, if female it looks like a Witch Elf.

It would blend the fighting abilities of the two units together.

[Xurré]

I think all of that is rather off-topic for discussing Witch Elf visual armor progression. ;)

Unless of course you want to discuss how you can have male Assassins have the same visual armor progression as female Witch Elves. :p


- Xurré