Ranged DPS for High Elves

[Axxar]

Suppose the shadow warrior is indeed one of the High Elf careers we will pick, it seems obvious that he will fill the role of ranged DPS. The shadow warriors are supposedly quite handy with longbows and their miniatures typically depict them using one. This can mean the shadow warrior focuses on ranged abilities and will likely have ways to kite enemies as well. He is not well-armoured and would probably prefer to not get hit too much. However, shadow warriors, AFAIK, are quite skilled in fighting with a blade, but you can't have a career that owns you at range, then even if he messes up and fails at kiting, he simply owns you in melee as well. So I figure there's two options for him:

OPTION 1:
- Good ranged abilities
- Good kiting abilities
- Weak melee abilities

That way he is screwed if he doesn't use his kiting properly, but if he does he is able to put some hurt into his opponent before he gets close, finishing up the wounded opponent as he closes or after a short melee.

OPTION 2:
- Good ranged abilities
- Weak kiting abilities
- Moderate melee abilities

This brings him a bit closer to the dwarf engineer. The dwarf engineer isn't screwed in melee combat, and neither is the shadow warrior. While still not as powerful as a pure melee career in close combat, he has the ability to weaken his adversary from range, but lacks the ability to keep his enemy at a distance for a longer period of time. Instead, he uses his ranged abilities for shorter period until the time comes to engage in melee.

With both options, as long as he's not being directly targeted, he will be working to efficiently pump arrows into his opponents. Once he gets targeted he'll either nuke it out against another ranged character, or spend time kiting or engaging in melee, if needed.

Any thoughts?

[Marrow]

I was always of the assumption that kiting wasn't an ability but a tactic. Of course you need certain abilities to preform a good kiting, but I'm not fond of the idea to create abilities specificaly meant for kiting. If there are abilities that allow you to preform a succesfull kiting run, then I think that's fine though.

So if I have to chose between your two suggestions, I'd rather go for the second option. If I think of ranged characters in a fantasy invironment, I always imagine them to be swift with the blade as well.

M.

[Axxar]

There already are abilities specifically meant for kiting in the game. Whether the shadow warrior should have any or not is a different matter, of course.

[Vikingkingq]

I would go with the weak kiting option, simply because Shadow Warriors are not ranged-only archer-types. They're more like special-forces types who use bows, swords, and a whole bunch of evil traps to ambush and destroy Druchii invaders.

As I've suggested elsewhere, I think Shadow Warriors could have Shadow Magic as a gimmick, since they do have access to it in the TT:

One thought: after looking at the Lore of Shadows, I see a couple spells that would work without being Drizzt-like. Pelt of Shadows summons a cloak around the caster, making it more difficult to be hit by arrows, but not stealthing them (more of an illusion); Unseen Lurker is a swift charge that roots the chargee; and Pit of Shadows is a pit trap.

[Knifeparty]

Since when could shadow warriors cast any magic on the TT? Nothing in my experiance

[Vikingkingq]

Since when could shadow warriors cast any magic on the TT? Nothing in my experiance

The ordinary Shadow Warrior can't, but I believe the Shadow Master (elite version) can cast from the Lore of Shadows only, as a Level One mage.

[Linkusmax]

Thats from Mordheim not the standard TT.

They're called Shadow Weavers and they use their own type of magic. not the Lore of Shadow.

[Vikingkingq]

Thats from Mordheim not the standard TT.

They're called Shadow Weavers and they use their own type of magic. not the Lore of Shadow.

Ah. I must have misremembered. Could you give some examples of Mordheim magic they can do?

[Linkusmax]

Shadow Weavers use a strange blend of magic that differs in many ways to the
traditional High Magic of their cousins of the Tower of Hoeth.
Author’s note: Several of the following spells mention that the target must be within a
certain distance of ‘a wall’. This is not literally restricted to walls, but may include
any piece of terrain that could be expected to cast a man-sized shadow.
D6 Result
1 Pool of Shadow Difficulty 7
The area immediately surrounding the mage is suddenly filled with twisting shadows
that make it nearly impossible to see anything inside.
This spell allows the mage and all within 6" to Hide, exactly as if there were a wall or
other obstruction between them and their enemies. They may Hide even after
marching. This Hiding is disrupted if any enemy enters the area of affect. In addition,
all affected count as being in cover against enemy shooting. This spell lasts until the
start of the Shadow Weaver’s next turn.
2 The Living Shadows Difficulty 7
Shadows around the target suddenly writhe as if alive and move to strike the victim.
The Shadow Weaver may cast this spell at any enemy model within 12" of him and
within 2" of a wall. The target suffers a single Strength 4 hit with no armour saves.
3 Wings of Night Difficulty 6
Wings of darkness unfurl from the Shadow Weaver’s back and engulf him. He
disappears, only to reappear in nearby shadow.
This spell may only be cast if the Shadow Weaver is within 2" of a wall. He is instantly
moved up to 12" to a place that is also within 2" of a wall. If moved into contact
with an enemy model, the Shadow Weaver counts as charging in the first round.
4 Cloak of Darkness Difficulty 7
The Shadow Weaver appears to be swallowed by shadows that even the sharpest senses
cannot pierce.
The Shadow Weaver is effectively concealed from enemy sight. As long as he does not
attack (cast spells, shoot, or engage in close combat) any enemy models, he may not be
attacked. He may intercept as normal if the player controlling him wishes, but he does
not have to do so (and if he does not, enemy warriors may charge past him of course).
The spell lasts until the Shadow Weaver attacks an enemy model. Note that a model
engaged in close combat with an enemy warrior may never choose to not attack.
5 Shadowbind Difficulty 9
Tendrils of darkness rise from the shadows to engulf an enemy warrior, rendering him
helpless to the whims of the Shadow Weaver.
The Shadow Weaver may cast this spell at any enemy model within 24" of him and 2" of
a wall. The target may not move unless it first passes a Strength test on 2D6 at the start
of his turn (before the Recovery Phase). This spell lasts until the Shadow Weaver suffers
a Wound or attempts to cast another spell. If attacked while affected by this spell, treat
the target exactly as if he were Stunned.
6 Shield of Shadow Difficulty 7
Shadows congeal and become a solid barrier in front of the Shadow Weaver or one of
his comrades, protecting the target from enemy attacks.
The Shadow Weaver may cast this spell on himself or a member of his warband within
12". The target receives an armour save of 5+ that is not modified by the attacker’s
Strength. The spell lasts until the start of the Shadow Weaver’s next turn

[Vikingkingq]

Shadow Weavers use a strange blend of magic that differs in many ways to the
traditional High Magic of their cousins of the Tower of Hoeth.
Author’s note: Several of the following spells mention that the target must be within a
certain distance of ‘a wall’. This is not literally restricted to walls, but may include
any piece of terrain that could be expected to cast a man-sized shadow.
D6 Result
1 Pool of Shadow Difficulty 7
The area immediately surrounding the mage is suddenly filled with twisting shadows
that make it nearly impossible to see anything inside.
This spell allows the mage and all within 6" to Hide, exactly as if there were a wall or
other obstruction between them and their enemies. They may Hide even after
marching. This Hiding is disrupted if any enemy enters the area of affect. In addition,
all affected count as being in cover against enemy shooting. This spell lasts until the
start of the Shadow Weaver’s next turn.
2 The Living Shadows Difficulty 7
Shadows around the target suddenly writhe as if alive and move to strike the victim.
The Shadow Weaver may cast this spell at any enemy model within 12" of him and
within 2" of a wall. The target suffers a single Strength 4 hit with no armour saves.
3 Wings of Night Difficulty 6
Wings of darkness unfurl from the Shadow Weaver’s back and engulf him. He
disappears, only to reappear in nearby shadow.
This spell may only be cast if the Shadow Weaver is within 2" of a wall. He is instantly
moved up to 12" to a place that is also within 2" of a wall. If moved into contact
with an enemy model, the Shadow Weaver counts as charging in the first round.
4 Cloak of Darkness Difficulty 7
The Shadow Weaver appears to be swallowed by shadows that even the sharpest senses
cannot pierce.
The Shadow Weaver is effectively concealed from enemy sight. As long as he does not
attack (cast spells, shoot, or engage in close combat) any enemy models, he may not be
attacked. He may intercept as normal if the player controlling him wishes, but he does
not have to do so (and if he does not, enemy warriors may charge past him of course).
The spell lasts until the Shadow Weaver attacks an enemy model. Note that a model
engaged in close combat with an enemy warrior may never choose to not attack.
5 Shadowbind Difficulty 9
Tendrils of darkness rise from the shadows to engulf an enemy warrior, rendering him
helpless to the whims of the Shadow Weaver.
The Shadow Weaver may cast this spell at any enemy model within 24" of him and 2" of
a wall. The target may not move unless it first passes a Strength test on 2D6 at the start
of his turn (before the Recovery Phase). This spell lasts until the Shadow Weaver suffers
a Wound or attempts to cast another spell. If attacked while affected by this spell, treat
the target exactly as if he were Stunned.
6 Shield of Shadow Difficulty 7
Shadows congeal and become a solid barrier in front of the Shadow Weaver or one of
his comrades, protecting the target from enemy attacks.
The Shadow Weaver may cast this spell on himself or a member of his warband within
12". The target receives an armour save of 5+ that is not modified by the attacker’s
Strength. The spell lasts until the start of the Shadow Weaver’s next turn

Hmmm....


Pool of Shadow
Cloak of Darkness


Probably out, due to no stealth in game.


Wings of Night - could work as a Blink-type spell.
Shadowbind - could work as a root.
Shield of Shadows - could work as a damage reducer spell.

[kizen]

I've always thought of shadow warriors as units similar to Navy SEALS. They work in small teams, and use superior tactics and suprise in order to defeat enemies. With that being said, I'd like to see strong archery with the ability to evade the enemy then strike again. Unfortunatly, that might be a bit unrealistic in an mmo, unless they are allowed to use shadow magic which would be a nice twist.


Only the highest ranking Shadow Warriors (known as Shadow Lords i believe) are adept at using shadow magic. I think theres a lot of information about them on asur.org

[Vikingkingq]

I've always thought of shadow warriors as units similar to Navy SEALS. They work in small teams, and use superior tactics and suprise in order to defeat enemies. With that being said, I'd like to see strong archery with the ability to evade the enemy then strike again. Unfortunatly, that might be a bit unrealistic in an mmo, unless they are allowed to use shadow magic which would be a nice twist.

Only the highest ranking Shadow Warriors (known as Shadow Lords i believe) are adept at using shadow magic. I think theres a lot of information about them on asur.org

Well, Shadow Masters, Shadow Weavers, and Shadow Walkers can all make use of it, to varying degrees.

And I agree with your interpretation. And an MMO doesn't have to be too realistic.

[The Masked Prince]

The Shadow warrior is not ranged DPS,
archimages is,
the shadow warrior will be mele DPS.

[Vikingkingq]

The Shadow warrior is not ranged DPS,
archimages is,
the shadow warrior will be mele DPS.

Shadow Warriors as melee dps? Seriously?!

No. Seriously, just no.

[The Masked Prince]

Well, that's what I heard, and it seemed pretty sure.

TANK: swordmaster
RANGE DPS: archimage (also pet class???)
HEAL....:????? pet class?
DPS mele: shadow warrior

there are not lots of possibilities since the archimage will be caster only, so RANGE DPS

[Vikingkingq]

Well, that's what I heard, and it seemed pretty sure.

TANK: swordmaster
RANGE DPS: archimage (also pet class???)
HEAL....:????? pet class?
DPS mele: shadow warrior

there are not lots of possibilities since the archimage will be caster only, so RANGE DPS

Why would you assume that the Archmage is not the Healer?
Moreover, where did you hear this?

[Thoden Firehammer]

Well he have to keep in mind that mythic said that the HE's are going to have a pet class, and this means that the Loremaster might be in

[kizen]

High Elf Arch Magi (that's the plural of mage right?) have spent way too much time perfecting the use of magic to be crammed into "SOLAR RAY OF I WIN" ranged dps. They are much more suited to be a flexible support class, who can use different lores to help the situation.

Not to mention, the TT Shadow Warrior is primarily and archer and scout, just look at the minis; they all are carrying elven bows. Not to mention there are so many better HE classes to fill in the melee dps class if the swordmaster is in fact the tank.

As far as pets are concerned, if White Lions are in, I could see them having some sort of pet ability since they are woodsmen.

My other idea is a bit(a lot) more far fetched. Give Shadow Warriors a pet. Which would make them somewhat similar to WoW hunters, except WAY more badass because they're more than just a mere hunter.

I doubt the caster classe(s) are going to have a pet. If they do, it will only be a familier and not do any fighting, but support the caster.

[The Masked Prince]

The shadow warrior a pet class?
I have to admit that I didn't think about that, I don't really like it but who knows?

I'm absolutly sure the archimage is not the healer.
As far as I remember the shadow warrior is the mele DPS class, unless things have
changed...

I can't tell where I heard that (surprising...),
sorry,
but for those who remember,
one or two month ago, I said the swordmaster, the shadow warrior, the archimage and an obviously an unknown support class were in.
The first ones are now almost confirmed, wait for the rest.

[kizen]

If it were to get ultra-technical, the Shadow Warrior is neither a sole Melee DPS, or Ranged DPS. They're proficient in both. They do what ever is necessary to cleanse the world of the Druchii. They are a scouting unit. Brute force contact with the enemy is bad for them because they don't wear heavy armor, and travel in small groups.

There are too many options for the melee dps slot that are just simply better suited for it.

[Vikingkingq]

High Elf Arch Magi (that's the plural of mage right?) have spent way too much time perfecting the use of magic to be crammed into "SOLAR RAY OF I WIN" ranged dps. They are much more suited to be a flexible support class, who can use different lores to help the situation.

Not to mention, the TT Shadow Warrior is primarily and archer and scout, just look at the minis; they all are carrying elven bows. Not to mention there are so many better HE classes to fill in the melee dps class if the swordmaster is in fact the tank.

As far as pets are concerned, if White Lions are in, I could see them having some sort of pet ability since they are woodsmen.

My other idea is a bit(a lot) more far fetched. Give Shadow Warriors a pet. Which would make them somewhat similar to WoW hunters, except WAY more badass because they're more than just a mere hunter.

I doubt the caster classe(s) are going to have a pet. If they do, it will only be a familier and not do any fighting, but support the caster.

I agree, I would much prefer a White Lion with lion pet than an overly-huntery Shadow Warrior. Caster familiars would be ok too.

[Hampus]

High Elf Arch Magi (that's the plural of mage right?) have spent way too much time perfecting the use of magic to be crammed into "SOLAR RAY OF I WIN" ranged dps. They are much more suited to be a flexible support class, who can use different lores to help the situation.

Not to mention, the TT Shadow Warrior is primarily and archer and scout, just look at the minis; they all are carrying elven bows. Not to mention there are so many better HE classes to fill in the melee dps class if the swordmaster is in fact the tank.

As far as pets are concerned, if White Lions are in, I could see them having some sort of pet ability since they are woodsmen.

My other idea is a bit(a lot) more far fetched. Give Shadow Warriors a pet. Which would make them somewhat similar to WoW hunters, except WAY more badass because they're more than just a mere hunter.

I doubt the caster classe(s) are going to have a pet. If they do, it will only be a familier and not do any fighting, but support the caster.

... Pets... They still give me nightmares since WoW.

[weezerchild]

I think a really good ranged DPS class(and i dont know why they didnt make this first),
would be a woodelf waywatcher, i hope they bring out wood elves soon after the release of the game, like in an expansion or something.
that would be coool, especially if they allowed us to be like dryads or sumthing =D
also i hope they let the hunter/ranger classes have pets like in WoW, cuz they will kinda suck at soloing then. =S

[Ceandric]

I think a really good ranged DPS class(and i dont know why they didnt make this first),
would be a woodelf waywatcher, i hope they bring out wood elves soon after the release of the game, like in an expansion or something.
that would be coool, especially if they allowed us to be like dryads or sumthing =D
also i hope they let the hunter/ranger classes have pets like in WoW, cuz they will kinda suck at soloing then. =S

please, please, please, please, please DON'T compare Shadowwarriors to hunters from THAT game...