High Elf Zone speculation

[Pendrako]

There seems to be a steady supply of career speculation threads with regards to the elves, but nothing so far about what zones people expect to see in the game.

We already know that Lothern will be the High Elf capital city, and Naggarond will be the Dark Elf capital. Paul has mentioned Vaul's Anvil in a video diary, and mentioned Saphery in the 'forbidden' bit he slipped into the Baltimore presentation. The Blighted Isle, the Isle of the Dead, Chrace and Caledor have also been mentioned in the past.

Does anyone have any ideas about possible locations for zones in the game, and how the zones could be ordered into campaign tiers? Apparently, Naggarond will be the only zone on Dark Elf home soil, in keeping with the backstory, so it's likely that the zones will be made up from the principalities of Ulthuan.

If you want to check out a map of Ulthuan, see here (http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/highelves/extras/interactivemap/default.htm).

I'm wondering if the zones will have any relation to the careers they decide to go with. Most of the High Elf provinces have a troop type associated with them, so if those careers are playable will they have special quests to do in their home zones? That could apply to Dragon Princes in Caledor, Shadow Warriors in the Shadowlands, Sea Guard in Lothern, mages in Saphery and White Lions in Chrace. Or have the devs decided to keep those careers as NPCs for their respective zones, and instead let players choose from a list of more generic careers which are not specific to any particular place?

[Valand]

just wanted to remind you that Swordmasters are also from Saphery, not just mages

[JD_Brett]

My guess would be Chrace since it contains one of the main routes inland to the rest of Ulthuan, or at least on that the Dark Elves often use. After all, Mythic wants to put an emphasis on "war is everywhere" . So it makes sense to have both Dark Elves and High Elves fighting over it from the begining.

[Vikingkingq]

One thought I had about the possible zone link-ups:

HE: Nagarythe -------> Hoeth------> Shrine of Asuryan -----------------> Eatine/Lothern

DE: Blackspine Mts ---> Har Ganeth ----------> Ghrond------------------> Underway/Naggarond

With the Blighted Isle as the Neutral Zone between Eatine and Underway.

Here, the idea would be the pairings are reachable only by naval travel.

[danteire]

Have ya a link that says Naggrond is the DE capital? I was thinking that either one of the Black Arks or Anlec would serve as their capital. Remember, they got the drop on the High Elves so all their troops would be already on Ulthuan. Just my thoughts on it.

[Vikingkingq]

Have ya a link that says Naggrond is the DE capital? I was thinking that either one of the Black Arks or Anlec would serve as their capital. Remember, they got the drop on the High Elves so all their troops would be already on Ulthuan. Just my thoughts on it.

No, this was just my speculation. It's quite possible that the Black Arks or Anlec would be it, but if the whole front is all on Ulthuan, it kind of detracts from taking the enemy's capitol and seizing their king. Empire gets to march into the Chaos Wastes and sack the Inevitable City; High Elves don't get to sack Naggarond to teach Malekith a lesson?

[Linkusmax]

Nope, Naggarond is the capital. It was een in one of the podcasts (can't remember which) on the Map as their Capital city.

[Grrblt]

I would be disappointed it the DE capital wasn't Naggarond and if there wasn't at least one more zone in DE lands. I know the DE are supposed to have this invasion thing going on, but sacking any other capital than Naggarond and not being able to invade them back would suck majorly. It would make me ignore the elf battlefront completely.

[Ilairon]

There's been some talk about this (more-or-less) in the General forums quite some time ago (including the link to the podcast that shows Naggarond and such) so first I'll supply the link: http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10807

Despite the podcast there, I'd still like the zones to be something like this:
Dark Elf Capital - Tor Anlec
Dark Elf Tier 4 - Shadowlands
Tier 4 Battlezone - The Blighted Isle
High Elf Tier 4 - Etaine
High Elf Capital - Lothern
Dark Elf Tier 1-3 (no specific order): Tiranoc, Chrace, Cothique, or Yvresse. (The outer provinces)
High Elf Tier 1-3 (no specific order): Ellyrion, Avelorn, Saphery, or Caledor. (The inner provinces)

Mind, I doubt we'll get to see Anlec at all, since Naggarond is the capital (and how they pull that off, I'd be interested to see).

However, to those aghast at the idea that you wouldn't get to sack Naggarond and take the fight to the Dark Elves, I'd point out the conflict between the Dwarfs and the Greenskins. The Dwarfs aren't taking a place that the Greenskins built or owned prior to WAR. They're re-taking something the Greenskins took from them in WAR. Likewise, all of the zones in the Chaos-Empire Realms belonged to the Empire and Kislev and were taken over by Chaos, with the exception of the Inevitable City (and perhaps Troll Country). My point is that Mythic doesn't have to split things evenly, and so far they haven't. And I can't say I've seen Empire fans, Chaos fans, Dwarf fans, or Greenskin fans complaining. I don't see why it's different for Elves; if you're invaded and on the defensive then victory is defined as repulsing the attacker until they're back where they started, and if you're invading defeat is defined as being repulsed.

[Linkusmax]

Chaos and Greenskins don't really own or build things.

It's just not the same as Dark Elves and High Elves.

[Grrblt]

However, to those aghast at the idea that you wouldn't get to sack Naggarond and take the fight to the Dark Elves, I'd point out the conflict between the Dwarfs and the Greenskins. The Dwarfs aren't taking a place that the Greenskins built or owned prior to WAR. They're re-taking something the Greenskins took from them in WAR.
That's because greenskins don't have a capital. And the dorks still care about that Eight Peaks, it's one of their greatest cities and they want it back. Who cares about a frigging Black Ark? There are more than one and it's just a large ship. I'd much rather sack the Inevitable city, even as an elf. And who, except DE themselves, cares about a town in the barren wastelands?

Likewise, all of the zones in the Chaos-Empire Realms belonged to the Empire and Kislev and were taken over by Chaos, with the exception of the Inevitable City (and perhaps Troll Country). My point is that Mythic doesn't have to split things evenly, and so far they haven't. And I can't say I've seen Empire fans, Chaos fans, Dwarf fans, or Greenskin fans complaining. I don't see why it's different for Elves; if you're invaded and on the defensive then victory is defined as repulsing the attacker until they're back where they started, and if you're invading defeat is defined as being repulsed.
What Empire player is not excited about sacking the Inevitable city? They have no reason to complain. If they only wanted Order to succeed by repulsing the attack, they'd have made Praag the Chaos capital. The idea with taking the Inevitable city is that we're not only surviving the invasion, we're beating the invaders. Elf battlefront should be no different. Dwarfs got it different because greenskins don't live anywhere particular.

[Ilairon]

Chaos and Greenskins don't really own or build things.

It's just not the same as Dark Elves and High Elves.

That's because greenskins don't have a capital. And the dorks still care about that Eight Peaks, it's one of their greatest cities and they want it back. Who cares about a frigging Black Ark? There are more than one and it's just a large ship. I'd much rather sack the Inevitable city, even as an elf. And who, except DE themselves, cares about a town in the barren wastelands?


What Empire player is not excited about sacking the Inevitable city? They have no reason to complain. If they only wanted Order to succeed by repulsing the attack, they'd have made Praag the Chaos capital. The idea with taking the Inevitable city is that we're not only surviving the invasion, we're beating the invaders. Elf battlefront should be no different. Dwarfs got it different because greenskins don't live anywhere particular.

I'm not sure where the notion arose that Greenskins and Chaos don't have structures or territories. Mind with Greenskins it's mainly looted, or ramshackle things they put together (that's my understanding at least), but they do have large swathes of relatively defined territory. Mind, the argument was never made that you're not taking Greenskin territory. The argument that was made is that the Greenskin capital isn't something in their territory; rather, their capital is in Dwarf territory. So despite taking the fight to the Greenskins in say, the Badlands, the focus of the WAR isn't on that. It's on retaking what's theirs.

And for the Empire, the entire focus is on retaking what's theirs since every zone except the Inevitable City was theirs to start with. And the Inevitable City doesn't even appear to be that far into the Wastes; it looks more like where Magnus the Pious fought Chaos. The focus isn't on taking the fight to the Wastes or destroying Chaos; it's about repelling them and safeguarding the Empire. There are several cities in the Wastes and many of the large tribes have established longhouses or established territory wherein their yurts can be found.

They both have defined territory, Chaos has cities, and the Greenskins may not have built them, but they have buildings that they occupy. Their territory certainly isn't the choicest retail, but it's theirs. So why should the Elves be different in this assessment? Like Chaos and the Greenskins, Dark Elves have defined territory. They have cities, watch towers, outposts, and the Autarii clans have long houses, yurts, and tents. And their territory likewise isn't the most desirable.

Grrblt, you're correct that the Greenskins don't have a capital. I'll even one-up you and say that Chaos doesn't either. I'll even go beyond that and say that if Malekith could have Naggarond as his capital for all eternity or Tor Anlec for all eternity, he'd choose the latter.

As for "Who cares about a Black Ark?" I'd have to say the High Elves and the Dark Elves. Generally speaking the High Elves care a great deal about Black Arks. They consider them to be what I'll define as "bad things," and they like to get rid of these "bad things." And the Dark Elves? Well aside from the Black Arks being one of the crowning achievements of their kind, a link to their past and their ancestral lands, and an integral part of Druchii culture wherein lowborn and highborn alike find upward mobility, I'd have to say they consider them to be what I'll define as "good things," which they can use to help put the other races in their place, dominate the seas, and reclaim what's rightfully theirs, and I assure you they like to keep these "good things" around and afloat.

But I'm a bit curious why you asked who cares about a Black Ark since Tor Anlec isn't a Black Ark. It's a city. An oft destroyed, besieged, and rebuilt city, but a city nonetheless. Mind, the Black Arks are effectively floating cities. It's said that the six Dark Elf cities were originally Black Arks that moored in Naggaroth and have since been built around and the Black Arks are effectively self-sustaining cities that stalk the oceans. But I'm afraid Anlec's not one of those; it's just a city. A repeatedly resplendent city that has endured the flames of war and will continue to do so as long as the war between the Elves continues. And I'd assume it's built on a hill, since it's got Tor in its name. As for who cares about Tor Anlec (I know, you didn't ask but I just can't help myself) I'd have to assume both the High Elves and the Dark Elves. I mean every time the Dark Elves invade Ulthuan they've rebuilt it, repopulated it, and it's replaced Naggarond as their capital, which they defend to the last with fierce tenacity and audacity even in the face of their vindictive cousins. And when the High Elves force their dark cousins from their fair island they always make sure to destroy Anlec with the utmost prejudice. It also was where Aenarion held court, the ancestral seat of power in Nagarythe, and where Malekith and Morathi held court before the Sundering. To that end it's probably rather important to those silly Shadow Warriors and that Alith Anar who leads them. Mind, maybe they don't really care about it at all, and it's just coincidence that the fighting their is the fiercest. :rolleyes:

Then again, maybe not.

And a town in the barren Wastelands? That'd be Chaos. :chaos: Maybe it's the Inevitable City-turned-town. Mind, I think most Elf fans would rather attack or defend a Black Ark than something with such amazing back-story as the Inevitable City. At least that's what the Dark Elves say (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14931).

Now I'll also play an Empire Warrior Priest (and maybe a Witch Hunter) as an alternate character, and when I do that I'll take much more enjoyment in the Empire and Chaos zones. Fighting against Chaos and forcing them out of the Empire until they're finally beaten back into the Chaos Wastes - I'll enjoy that. That's what you're doing in the Empire campaign after all, fighting off the forces of Chaos one step at a time until you kick them back to that Wasteland they call home so that you can go back to your nice house in Altdorf, Talabheim, Middenheim, Ostmark, Nuln or whatever spot in the Empire you call home.

And I'll play a Chosen too. And I'll take joy in razing the Empire to the ground and corrupting its people one province at a time until Altdorf puts the final nail in the coffin. Then I can continue to ransack and pillage and increase my personal power and the ease of my life. Which is, after all, the goal for Chaos.

I won't play Greenskins or Dwarfs, (I don't think I'd enjoy role-playing the former and the latter just bores me) but it's much the same. If I were a Greenskin (Goblin Shaman, I suppose), I'd be working towards Karaz-a-Karak, looting and destroying the stunties along the way. And if I was a dwarf then I'd be fighting back to regain lost holds and keep the filthy greenskins from defiling them any more, forcing them out of Karak Eight Peaks, reclaiming it in the name of my ancestors, and fortifying it against future invasion.

So yes, we're beating the invaders. We're beating them back. But we're not taking the fight to them. We're not trying to destroy them like they tried to us. Likely we're just as worn out from the war as they are. We've got lands to rebuild, borders to fortify, and lives to restart. This applies to the High Elves as much as the Dwarfs and the Empire. And why should they follow the enemy and take the fight to them? What's the enemy got that we want? Nothing really - that's why they attack us. They're just a pesky nuisance that we have to swat once in a while so it's not really worth the trouble to try and destroy them completely, especially since we'd likely fail and expose ourselves to more dangers in the process.

Since I'm certain you read the entire topic that was linked, there's no need for me to repeat points like status-quo and revisionist power theory orr the geographic barriers to large-scale invasion of Naggaroth. :rolleyes:

However, I will add that in a game that's supposed to epitomize perpetual warfare, a city that's perpetually disputed and an anchor to any invasion seems like quite an important place that would certainly fit the modus operandi of the game.

[Vikingkingq]

However, to those aghast at the idea that you wouldn't get to sack Naggarond and take the fight to the Dark Elves, I'd point out the conflict between the Dwarfs and the Greenskins. The Dwarfs aren't taking a place that the Greenskins built or owned prior to WAR. They're re-taking something the Greenskins took from them in WAR. Likewise, all of the zones in the Chaos-Empire Realms belonged to the Empire and Kislev and were taken over by Chaos, with the exception of the Inevitable City (and perhaps Troll Country). My point is that Mythic doesn't have to split things evenly, and so far they haven't. And I can't say I've seen Empire fans, Chaos fans, Dwarf fans, or Greenskin fans complaining. I don't see why it's different for Elves; if you're invaded and on the defensive then victory is defined as repulsing the attacker until they're back where they started, and if you're invading defeat is defined as being repulsed.

Of the Dwarf/Greenskin zones:
- Badlands: "countless tribes of Greenskins have called the Badlands home over the centuries."
- Black Crag: "Black Crag has become one of the mightiest strongholds occupied by the Greenskins, and over the centuries many tribes have fought to claim ownership of the Crag."
-Marshes of Madness: "Long before the time of Sigmar....The destruction of Mourkain came at the hands of a massive Greenskin Waaagh! which swept out of the World's Edge Mountains, razing the city to the ground and destroying the empire it had built up."

Only Mount Bloodhorn and Karak Eight Peaks are recent conquest. Most of these zones do belong to the Greenskins.

Of the Chaos/Empire zones:
Norsca - traditional home of the Chaos tribes.
Troll Country - a no man's land.
High Pass - right on their borders.
Chaos Wastes - their home territory.
Inevitable City - their city.

Chaos has its own "skin in the game," as it were.