Mutations will be Chaosy, but what do you think about that?

[Taurth]

According to this (http://only-war.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15347) interview (scanned from a magazine, so its a huge image), mutations will actually be random. Now there are of course disadvantages to that, but I personally like the idea because thats truly what Chaos is about.

I think undoubtedly some people will be disappointed, but others may share my views on this and feel the same way. So what do you think?

[Zeetchmen]

Zealot it is then!

Anyways, yes its more Chaosy :cool:

[Taurth]

The things that does disappoint me though is how it kind of takes away the tactical part of playing the Marauder. I just finished reading the interview and Josh describes the Marauders as a class which you don't have to think much to play, and its pretty clear that thats because of random mutations which basically takes away the element of choosing different mutations for different situations which was something I thought would be really cool about the Marauder.

[Razor Boy]

I was originally put-off by the slightly random nature of the mutations until I got to the part where interviewee stated that all mutations will be useful for what the marauder does - namely kill stuff good. I hope that the randomness of the mutations would manifest itself mostly in the aesthetic sense (i.e. a tentacle instead of a claw but both do the same amoutn of damage), and would only have a slight impact on marauder tactics.

At the same time, I'm now even more curious as to what sort of gear would marauder need? Will they fight with 1h weapons and a mutated hand for their off-hand, 2h weapons, or no weapons at all? And how will mutations impact their choice of weapons (if at all)? That's what the last newsletter should've clarified. Oh well...

[Gemini]

Mutations are offhand, and we get all sorts of 1h weapons.

As for the mutation, I really don't think it's gonna be "hit the 'mutate' button and get a random mutation". I see it more as you probably have a few diffrent mutation groups, and you choose one of them, and then get a random mutation from within the group. I think it's actually very cool, and much, much more chaosy.

[Taurth]

Well thinking about it, you could argue that it would be more tactical having random mutations, since they must effect you quite drastically since you actually get different abilities, and being able to know how to use each type must be quite tactical (hopefully).

Also, I knew Marauders would use a mainhand and mutate their offhand, but I had always hoped they'd be able to use a two handed weapon, since I'm used to playing duel wielding classes.

[zoa]

It's more randomly tactical, yea, but I still would of liked to see the choose the right mutation for the right situation (It even rhymes!) type thing. It will just be like, "Oh my hand is now a crab claw, alright in this situation I can use it to my advantage by rending the target because he has heavy armour", or something along those lines. It takes away from some of the control, but you still have to think fast, I guess :S

Then again, maybe we are looking at it the wrong way, and maybe it is like someone already said that there will be different mutation groups. Maybe these mutation groups all have the same skills and abilities within them, and it is just the animation that is random, and not the skills, who knows. Food for thought.

[Hatemonger]

Geez, it makes it sound as if a monkey can play a Marauder effectively.

"Oh, and can you explain the general tactics of a Marauder?"
"YOU GET TO HIT STUFF! WOOOH!"
"Oh, and how will they be useful in a group?"
"HIT STUFF WITH YO' SPIKE ARM! OH YYYEEEAH."
"I think I understand, but tell me, how complex will you be able to go into the machanics of the class"
"THIS AIN'T NO CUTSCENE, PRESS A, PRESS A!"
"Thank you for your time."

At least I'll look cool while mindlessly tapping the mouse. :(

[Taurth]

I agree, when I started this thread I hadn't even read the part where he makes it seem so unbelievably simple to play. Its a shame, cause you follow a class so long, to find out that they're making it a "beginner class".

Its really not what I wanted the Marauder to be. It felt awkward reading the part of the article where he explains the playstyles of the Marauder and KoTBS, because its seems like Josh knows unbelievably simple isn't an appealing quality in a class, but he tries to explain it positively and make it out to be something great before quickly jumping back to explain more on the KoTBS which has a more tactical and interesting playstyle.

I'm a bit disappointed to be honest, and I'd rather mutations be chooseable (after thinking about it) and drastically effect different situations, and I was almost positive thats how it would turn out before reading this; random mutations never occurred to me. I'll probably still roll one; hopefully they'll go over the Chaos classes again like they did with the Greenskins and change the Marauder's playstyle to something more tactical. :(

[zoa]

Yea, I just finished the article, and honestly to say I am disappointed would be an understatement. I was really excited about the fact that I thought a Marauder would be very technical to play and that players would have to know the mechanics of both the Marauder, as well as the class they are up against to properly play the class. I was hoping that skill shown through a Marauder would be very evident, and that those who can't do it well, would not be able to do very well as the class.

Oh and Hatemonger, that was a great representation of the article, had a good laugh over it :D

[Taurth]

Oh and Hatemonger, that was a great representation of the article, had a good laugh over it :D I laughed, then felt very disheartened...

[Throt the Unclean]

I guess I differ from the general opinion then. Random mutations sound kind of cool, and they fit the feel of the chaos lore a lot better this way. Random mutation tables were always one of the coolest things about chaos, and having the exact mutations you want available at the push of a button just doesn't feel right to me.

I mean you can beg and pray for Tzeentch to give you a crab claw all you want, but if he'd rather gift you with a dog's head and a spiked tail then you'd better get used to barking from now on.

As for oversimplifying the class, I really don't mind. Sure it's nice to really get to grips with a class and spend time mastering tactics and timing and all that, but now and again you just want to lay down some smack with limited fuss. If mauraders excel at that sort of hack and slash gameplay, then I probably won't be making one my main, but you can guarantee i'll have one as an alt, and i'm sure i'll be spending many happy hours with him smashing stuff up :)

[Gemini]

Then again, maybe we are looking at it the wrong way, and maybe it is like someone already said that there will be different mutation groups. Maybe these mutation groups all have the same skills and abilities within them, and it is just the animation that is random, and not the skills, who knows. Food for thought.


Thats not what I meant at all. Diffrent mutation should have diffrent skills and bonuses attached to them, in my mind. I just meant like, group A has the crab claw, the bone saw, and something else, and you don't know which you'll get. Group b has dragon scales, stoneskin, or whatever. Group C ect ect.

I like it this way because instead of choosing your mutation to adapt to the situtation, you yoruself have to adapt to whatever mutation you get. Maybe your wailing on an Ironbreaker, but you get some mutation with anti-caster capabilities, so you gotta decide: Switch targets and leave the Ironbreaker alone, or waste a few of my skills to keep beating him down.

[Hatemonger]

I guess I differ from the general opinion then. Random mutations sound kind of cool, and they fit the feel of the chaos lore a lot better this way. Random mutation tables were always one of the coolest things about chaos, and having the exact mutations you want available at the push of a button just doesn't feel right to me.

I mean you can beg and pray for Tzeentch to give you a crab claw all you want, but if he'd rather gift you with a dog's head and a spiked tail then you'd better get used to barking from now on.

No, from a lore point of view it's very cool. It's just that I will have to be playing this character, and I'd personally like to have full control over what happens to him. Just a personal preference. It would also add depth to the character, which I'm assuming it will sorely need now. Honestly, as long as all the random mutations are basically as reliable as the others, then I'm fine...I guess. ;)

As for oversimplifying the class, I really don't mind. Sure it's nice to really get to grips with a class and spend time mastering tactics and timing and all that, but now and again you just want to lay down some smack with limited fuss. If mauraders excel at that sort of hack and slash gameplay, then I probably won't be making one my main, but you can guarantee i'll have one as an alt, and i'm sure i'll be spending many happy hours with him smashing stuff up :)

Well, I suppose you wouldn't mind if it wasn't going to be your main, but it will be mine. That's sort of why I don't want it to be some easy-mode, button masher. I hope it will be possible to get a bit more complex with the character, but if not...well, I guess I'll just suck it up. They look too awesome to give up. :p

[LookinGreen]

Personally I would prefer choosing the mutation for each battle depending on what I think would benefit that fight. This idea is really cool too though if all mutations do the same damage so just incase you don't get screwed with a crappy mutation (or one you hate i guess is better terminology)

[Taurth]

I guess I differ from the general opinion then. Random mutations sound kind of cool, and they fit the feel of the chaos lore a lot better this way. Random mutation tables were always one of the coolest things about chaos, and having the exact mutations you want available at the push of a button just doesn't feel right to me.

I mean you can beg and pray for Tzeentch to give you a crab claw all you want, but if he'd rather gift you with a dog's head and a spiked tail then you'd better get used to barking from now on.

As for oversimplifying the class, I really don't mind. Sure it's nice to really get to grips with a class and spend time mastering tactics and timing and all that, but now and again you just want to lay down some smack with limited fuss. If mauraders excel at that sort of hack and slash gameplay, then I probably won't be making one my main, but you can guarantee i'll have one as an alt, and i'm sure i'll be spending many happy hours with him smashing stuff up :)
I wouldn't mind random mutations if Josh emphasized in that interview having to adapt to each kind, but he made it sound too simple which isn't what I'd wanted the Marauder to be.

[Throt the Unclean]

Well, I suppose you wouldn't mind if it wasn't going to be your main, but it will be mine. That's sort of why I don't want it to be some easy-mode, button masher. I hope it will be possible to get a bit more complex with the character, but if not...well, I guess I'll just suck it up. They look too awesome to give up. :p

I'll admit, if i was dead set on making one my main i'd be a little disapointed, but thankfully there's enough classes that appeal to me at the moment (even without including dark elves) to be flexible with which ones I play and how I play them. Not every class can be my main, so this news makes things a little easier for me to decide.

Then again, any class I make my main is only going to be temporary. You can tell by my username and avatar where my true loyalties lie;)

[Yvo]

Zealot it is then!

Anyways, yes its more Chaosy :cool:


You really used that as a reason to pick between two entirely different classes?

[Taurth]

You really used that as a reason to pick between two entirely different classes?
He's been swaying between the two as I've seen from a number of his posts.

The way a class plays seems like as good a reason as any to decide whether or not you're going to play that class, since random mutations is a pretty different game mechanic than what any of us thought it would be. Don't you agree?

[zoa]

He's been swaying between the two as I've seen from a number of his posts.

The way a class plays seems like as good a reason as any to decide whether or not you're going to play that class, since random mutations is a pretty different game mechanic than what any of us thought it would be. Don't you agree?

I definitely do, but for me it is either a Druchii class or a Marauder, so I am a bit concerned about this stuff, but I am sticking around for more information. Also, mutation points might be another killer for some Marauder fans, hell, I know I don't want to have to farm them prior to battle, especially just to walk in and receive my new randomly chosen octopus tentacle which is absolutely useless against the Ironbreaker I am up against.

Anyways, sorry Gemeni for misunderstanding your post, but as much as I try to, I just can't agree with sacrificing so much of the technical aspect of the class just for lore's sake.

[Destcaz]

I think you guys might be taking the quote too far. He said that the mutations will be 'slightly random'. I'm guessing it will fall under the category of 'I choose a certain type of mutation' and then it randomly chooses from a pool of mutations that do that purpose, but in different ways.

Also consider the fact that your opponent will never know what mutation is coming their way. So you'll always have the element of surprise once you learn your mutations.

[Krulltak]

Sorry if the suggestion has been posted before, but what if the mutation you recieved fit according to the enemy you happened to be wailing on at that certain time. Like say if you were fighting an Ironbreaker, you reached Freak Peak [TM] and got a gromril piercing barbed spear-like mutation, or if you were fighting a Wizard, then you would get a super fast tentacle to rip those clothies to shreads.


I personally think it would work awesomely like that.

[Gemini]

That would be awesome, though it would make switching targets annoying.

[Taurth]

I think you guys might be taking the quote too far. He said that the mutations will be 'slightly random'. I'm guessing it will fall under the category of 'I choose a certain type of mutation' and then it randomly chooses from a pool of mutations that do that purpose, but in different ways.

Also consider the fact that your opponent will never know what mutation is coming their way. So you'll always have the element of surprise once you learn your mutations.

I'm more bothered about:

They are the melee DPS career where if you honestly just want to log into the game, do nothing else but tear people into pieces, and you don't really want to think too much about it, you can do that withought getting too involved with the careerPersonally the bold bit is exactly the oposite of what I wanted the Marauder to be.

Sorry if the suggestion has been posted before, but what if the mutation you recieved fit according to the enemy you happened to be wailing on at that certain time. Like say if you were fighting an Ironbreaker, you reached Freak Peak [TM] and got a gromril piercing barbed spear-like mutation, or if you were fighting a Wizard, then you would get a super fast tentacle to rip those clothies to shreads.


I personally think it would work awesomely like that.

Not too keen on the idea to be honest, since that sounds like it would make them even more "EZ Mode" than they already sound.

[Krulltak]

Not too keen on the idea to be honest, since that sounds like it would make them even more "EZ Mode" than they already sound

Well maybe, but unlike the CHoppa (assuming they have two-handers, THEY BETTER HAVE TWO-HANDERS DAMMIT) who can switch between fast duel-wielding and armor crushing two-handers in a relativly short period of time, the Marauder will be stuck with the mutation for a while, making it hard to kill one kind of enemy during that time, which isn't really easy now is it?

[logicalmayhem]

The things that does disappoint me though is how it kind of takes away the tactical part of playing the Marauder. I just finished reading the interview and Josh describes the Marauders as a class which you don't have to think much to play, and its pretty clear that thats because of random mutations which basically takes away the element of choosing different mutations for different situations which was something I thought would be really cool about the Marauder.

ove looked into this and i dont think its gonna be totally random the mutations will be put into different catagorys for different things
say you might have 12 mutations in 4 catagories

and when you pick a mutation ist from a broad category so you get like a 1/4 of what you want and if it inst exactly it will be something close

[Taurth]

Well maybe, but unlike the CHoppa (assuming they have two-handers, THEY BETTER HAVE TWO-HANDERS DAMMIT) who can switch between fast duel-wielding and armor crushing two-handers in a relativly short period of time, the Marauder will be stuck with the mutation for a while, making it hard to kill one kind of enemy during that time, which isn't really easy now is it?I suppose, but that issue could be easily avoided by just not having random mutations in the first place.

ove looked into this and i dont think its gonna be totally random the mutations will be put into different catagorys for different things
say you might have 12 mutations in 4 catagories

and when you pick a mutation ist from a broad category so you get like a 1/4 of what you want and if it inst exactly it will be something close
I'd be okay with that, even though its not really random mutations that annoys me, its the fact that they're described as easy to play. You could have random mutations to make the class more tactical, or you could have random mutations to make the class easy to play. What would make random mutations easy for the player would be for their effects to not really make much difference, and since Josh described them as class that you don't have to think too much about, it makes me think mutations may not make much difference.

[Baron Khaine]

Taurth I honestly just think Josh was speaking up to the interviewer. Any class can be played simply, with my Warrior in WoW, I just wanted to run around and whack thing's, it was the simplest class there was, and yet later on you learn how to play it, what to do in certain situations, now add a random factor into that and it's going to be even funner, well in my eye's anyway.

[Taurth]

Hopefully you'll be right. At the moment we still don't know enough about it yet though so maybe my assumptions are a bit prejudged.

[Sagesse|Emil]

I like the complete randomness of it all...very, chaos like.

Yeah, but this will turn off people that like to look the same all the time

[Mortimus]

Hmmm...

Maybe im just thinking positively but random mutations could also work very much in our favor for RvR.
Think about it; enemies literally wont know what to expect, and that is a big advantage imho.

I gotta admit I was likewise disheartened to read the interview on a certain level, unfortunately "simple" usually means itll be a noob class in other players' eyes. Luckily im not playing to impress anyone else, and the otherside of the coin is that simplicity usually translates into quick and dirty on the battlefield.

Time is valuable in pvp, let others have fun getting pats on the back for playing a complex, strategical class while we're promptly eating thier ranged and support members alive.

Order opponents will be wasting valuable time juggling thier options on how to deal with our current mutation while were already on top of them.


Works for me.

:D

[Purgling]

Hopefully what he said is true...but not the whole story. Your job as a Marauder might be simple, you attack a single target til it's dead. But doing it well might be much more challenging based on the talents and limitations of the class.

I hope that mutation is part of that. Picking your mutation on a whim seems very un-chaosy. I'd like to see your mutated arm change randomly and have different abilities which you'd have to adjust to. Claw gives a grapple move, tentacle gives a trip, spike gives extra damage, etc. Or you could pick your mutation at character creation to fit your playstyle and pray to the gods (respec) if you change your mind?

The job of a DPS melee class might seem simple. But anyone who's played MMO's knows that the player still makes the difference. A bad DPS'er in a group can be just as bad as a bad healer or tank. In PvP the same character could be a cupcake or your worst nightmare depending on the skill of the player. Hopefully playing the Marauder class will prove challenging enough to keep folks interest.

[ApricotSoup]

Are people sure the mutation mechanics are random and not just the graphics which come with each mutation. ie. we have a selection of 10 different mutations to take advantage of and a pool of 15 different mutation graphics of which a random mutation will appear each time a specific ability is used.

Should the actual mechanic be random it'd be steering me away from this class pretty swiftly should they have a certain impact. If it's just the graphics I could really appreciate that. Could for instance be 3 different cutting mutations, 3 blunt, 3 tentacled etc. for each different type of move, a stunning type ability would reveal a blunt mutation and a high crit % ability would use a sharp one.

Just a thought

[Taurth]

Are people sure the mutation mechanics are random and not just the graphics which come with each mutation. ie. we have a selection of 10 different mutations to take advantage of and a pool of 15 different mutation graphics of which a random mutation will appear each time a specific ability is used.

Should the actual mechanic be random it'd be steering me away from this class pretty swiftly should they have a certain impact. If it's just the graphics I could really appreciate that. Could for instance be 3 different cutting mutations, 3 blunt, 3 tentacled etc. for each different type of move, a stunning type ability would reveal a blunt mutation and a high crit % ability would use a sharp one.

Just a thoughtThat would be the best possible option judging by what Josh said, however, the emphasis on how simple the class will be makes me think there wont be much tactical choosing with this class. :?

[Aqueous]

The way I see it, everything with the Melee DPS classes in this game is based on how long you've lasted in the fight for. So I assume for the marauder, the longer youre in the fight, the more awesome the mutations get. So it would be random within categories of how good it should be, so you won't get completely screwed by the randomness. Maybe you start off with a little claw or tentacle, but later on in the fight you turn into a full fledged mutant monster.

[Baradun]

It's more randomly tactical, yea, but I still would of liked to see the choose the right mutation for the right situation type thing.

Does this mean there will be no "Chicken claw of doom" button?.. Drat.. ;)

Maybe the mechanic will take into account who / what your fighting, I'm shure slanoogrum or whatever his name is isnt so sadistic as to give you an Elf smasher growth when your fighting humans or a Beard ripper when your fighting Elves, or a.. you get the idea.

Heh.. slanoogrum.

[BEER FOR THE BEER GOD!] <clink, swig, ahh>