Just swords?

[Dragonspear]

one thing that worries me about this game is class restricted weapons. We know the warpriests and dwarven hammerers are more or lest restricted to hammer (understandable) but does that go for all the other classes? Knights restricted to swords, ranged combatants restricted to ranged weapons and daggers up close? The only class that seem to have the most freedom in melee combat is the chosen...

[Krulltak]

one thing that worries me about this game is class restricted weapons. We know the warpriests and dwarven hammerers are more or lest restricted to hammer (understandable) but does that go for all the other classes? Knights restricted to swords, ranged combatants restricted to ranged weapons and daggers up close? The only class that seem to have the most freedom in melee combat is the chosen...


We don't really know yet, but I don't see any reason to restrict the Knight to swords only. Axes and maces and such would also fit, hey even a bow/crossbow.

[Jonas]

Well, to take the historical point of view, during medieval times the sword was often seen as a symbol of nobility. As we entered the renaissance period, which is similar to what the Empire is based off, swords become more generally available, especially as armies become more professional, a good example of which being the Langschneckts of the HRE (iirc).

However, for the common infantrymen, swords were usually shortswords of some sort, be they katzblagers (in the langshneckts), messers, schiavonas, backswords, broadswords etc.. or the large doppelhanders/zweihanders (an interesting note is that the term 'flamberge' is technically incorrect - or so more knowledgeable people on swords have told me - as it is reference to a flammard bladed rapier.) which were used to cut into pike walls. On the other hand, the knight of this day and age (despite waning from popularity) tended towards the use of the 'longsword'/'greatsword'/'warsword'/' sword' - swords with longer grips for use (most commonly) in 2 hands. This was because by this stage, armor had developed to the stage where most of those guys didn't need to use shields per se, and were able to focus their weaponry as best possible. The obvious advantage of the "one and a half handed" varieties is that they are still usable whilst mounted; although many knights probably would have carried a more effectively balanced sword for those situations.

Anyway.. what I am getting to is: swords are the archetypal 'knightly' weapon. As such, whilst I won't mind if we get a range of weapons, I wouldn't be disappointed if it was only swords. But, what I expect to be the actual case is that whilst the class will be able to use lots of random stuff, the weapons that will be specifically tailored to the class through quest rewards or token drops or whatever - will be swords.

[Vikingkingq]

one thing that worries me about this game is class restricted weapons. We know the warpriests and dwarven hammerers are more or lest restricted to hammer (understandable) but does that go for all the other classes? Knights restricted to swords, ranged combatants restricted to ranged weapons and daggers up close? The only class that seem to have the most freedom in melee combat is the chosen...

So far, in screenshots, we've seen Knights with:
- one-handed swords.
- two-handed swords.
- spear/pole-arm type-weapons.

And in concept art, we've seen that they can use shields too.

[Teljor]

well since swords are my favorite wepons (medieval wse) i wont cry if we only get swords, but i see no reason why we shouldnt be alowed maces, axes, or even morning stars.

[jkdfhk]

SWORDS ARE COOL! If the class you really wanna be get weapon restrictions is it gonna be THAT bad that you will stop wanting to be them. And if they do make restrictions they could also make class only weapons that look mega awsome :D

[kingsword]

Indeed, swords are the 'knightly' weaponry. I wouldn't prefer anything else to a zweihander or sword/shield combo myself.

But still, we saw spears in screenshots so more choices may be possible. I hope for no axes though.

[Krulltak]

Indeed, swords are the 'knightly' weaponry. I wouldn't prefer anything else to a zweihander or sword/shield combo myself.

But still, we saw spears in screenshots so more choices may be possible. I hope for no axes though.


Why the hell would they not use axes? Back in Medieval Times, knights and everyone else were always using short, curvy axes, flails too. And it's certainly no different in Warhammer.

[kingsword]

True enough but then again, renaissance knights were preferring weapons that's a breed of axes/maces for maximum armor penetration and also damage vs unarmored targets. I've yet to see such weaponry in games though as they don't look as pretty.

At least not axes with orkish looks.

[Bork]

Well, what about Halberds? (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=793&c=2)
Look nice enough to me.

[Ofaloaf]

Well, to take the historical point of view, during medieval times the sword was often seen as a symbol of nobility. As we entered the reconnaissance period, which is similar to what the Empire is based off, swords become more generally available, especially as armies become more professional, a good example of which being the Langschneckts of the HRE (iirc).

However, for the common infantrymen, swords were usually shortswords of some sort, be they katzblagers (in the langshneckts), messers, schiavonas, backswords, broadswords etc.. or the large doppelhanders/zweihanders (an interesting note is that the term 'flamberge' is technically incorrect - or so more knowledgeable people on swords have told me - as it is reference to a flammard bladed rapier.) which were used to cut into pike walls. On the other hand, the knight of this day and age (despite waning from popularity) tended towards the use of the 'longsword'/'greatsword'/'warsword'/' sword' - swords with longer grips for use (most commonly) in 2 hands. This was because by this stage, armor had developed to the stage where most of those guys didn't need to use shields per se, and were able to focus their weaponry as best possible. The obvious advantage of the "one and a half handed" varieties is that they are still usable whilst mounted; although many knights probably would have carried a more effectively balanced sword for those situations.

Anyway.. what I am getting to is: swords are the archetypal 'knightly' weapon. As such, whilst I won't mind if we get a range of weapons, I wouldn't be disappointed if it was only swords. But, what I expect to be the actual case is that whilst the class will be able to use lots of random stuff, the weapons that will be specifically tailored to the class through quest rewards or token drops or whatever - will be swords.
Original question: Dude, do we, like, just get to use swords or what?
Answer: [Encyclopedia entry].


Not that I'm insulting you or anything. I'm impressed, it just seems a bit overkill.

[Krulltak]

True enough but then again, renaissance knights were preferring weapons that's a breed of axes/maces for maximum armor penetration and also damage vs unarmored targets. I've yet to see such weaponry in games though as they don't look as pretty.

At least not axes with orkish looks.


They definatly won't have no orcy axes.

I was thinkng along these lines: http://www.asht.info/assets/images/RA_Axe_Large.jpg

http://www.weaponsemporium.com/WE-Hero's_Axe.jpg

Notice here (http://uk.games-workshop.com/empire/miniature-gallery/4/) that the Blazing Sun Grandmaster (the dude who leads the entire Order of the Blazing Sun) on the left holds an axe.

[Jonas]

Why the hell would they not use axes? Back in Medieval Times, knights and everyone else were always using short, curvy axes, flails too. And it's certainly no different in Warhammer.

Because anyone was allowed to carry an axe. Axes were practical items. Swords were pretty much only weaponry, which was exclusively a noble thing for a goodly while.

Amusingly, with the growth of cities and the advent of 'freemen' this perspective changed somewhat; with swords becoming more common and accepted as they were and are excellent defensive weapons whereas other weapons that had been developed to counteract armor (such as warhammers and the like) became a good reason for city guards to turn you away from cities. They were 'killing weapons', there was no sense of defense about them.

Well, what about Halberds? (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/../gallery/showimage.php?i=793&c=2)
Look nice enough to me.

Footman's weapon. Designed for infantry, not knights. Actually, I've had a few friends who've played with some attest to how disgustingly easy they are to use effectively, at least compared to swords.

Original question: Dude, do we, like, just get to use swords or what?
Answer: [Encyclopedia entry].


Not that I'm insulting you or anything. I'm impressed, it just seems a bit overkill.

I like learning about swords and medieval history and I like sharing that info (because often there are many many misconceptions). :D

They definatly won't have no orcy axes.

I was thinkng along these lines: http://www.asht.info/assets/images/RA_Axe_Large.jpg

http://www.weaponsemporium.com/WE-Hero's_Axe.jpg (http://www.weaponsemporium.com/WE-Hero%27s_Axe.jpg)

Notice here (http://uk.games-workshop.com/empire/miniature-gallery/4/) that the Blazing Sun Grandmaster (the dude who leads the entire Order of the Blazing Sun) on the left holds an axe.

The first one there looks like a poleaxe which was a relatively common weapon around the time of the Battle of Hastings, particularly amongst the Saxon knights. It retained some popularity throughout the medieval period as a complex and devastating weapon, albeit somewhat rarer than swords.

The second looks actually a bit of a fantasy replica. I'm pretty sure there's no historical evidence of axes with twin blades like that - although I could be wrong, axes are not my specific strong point.

When it comes down to it, such weapons were present and sometimes used. Although I would venture knights would have more commonly used maces, warhammers and such over axes. But, as I have mentioned above, these were killing weapons that you would take to battle, but mightn't carry all the time; even if you were carrying one of them, you would probably also have a sword. Knights would have their sword with them at most occasions; it is more generically useful and in many ways a symbol of their nobility.

As for the model, I've seen that one before and I suspect it's just a variety thing. As for what they'll give us, who knows.. apart from that they've specifically said that the class uses swords in the description.

[Ofaloaf]

To be fair, the Empire isn't a purely Medieval society. It's mostly based on Renaissance Germany, as stated before, but extra fluff added into the background of the Empire gives it a little bit of an Industrial Revolution feel to it, as well. Engineers of the Empire have not only developed freakin' Steam Tanks, by Sigmar, but also a multitude of rapid-firing pistols and muskets, sniper rifles, grenade-launching blunderbusses, rockets, and clockwork horses, just to rattle off a few inventions.

That's not even taking into account all other sorts of advanced machinery used elswhere, such as flying machines created in several places by various factions like the Dwarves, who made a steam-powered helicopter, and in Tilea (I'm going deep into the Fantasy tabletop game now, man) a man-powered ornithopter has been successfully manufactured and used in an infamous mercenary unit. Dwarfen engineering has also given the world steam-powered ironclads and a fine railway system. Machines and weapons on-par with 19th-century technology can be found across the world of Warhammer Fantasy.


So it isn't just quite right to approach the way Knights operate and equip themselves with purely Medieval views: this is a military order which functions in the middle of a nation that has hasn't figured out the assembly line yet only because they get a new idea for a death machine halfway through the concept.

[Gemini]

Well, I bet the KotBS is more likely than alot of classes to get more than just one kind of weapon. Probably a pole-arm type weapon, espically if it does end up getting mounted combat. I'm still hoping for bashas/smashas for my Black Orc, and since the Marauder description says it wield's all sorts of 1h weapons, I'm hoping for my beautiful, beautiful flails to make an appereance. Any class with flails I will play.

[Jonas]

mm.. that's kind of why I addressed Renaissance attitudes earlier. Although, it's always important to know where a culture has developed from, because that will affect prevailing attitudes within the culture.

If we assume that the Empire has developed from a similarly feudal society similar to ours in the Medieval period, it's reasonable to assume that there will be similar attitudes.

The big problem with using our history to predict Empire culture is how Sigmar used a Warhammer (or fantasized version of one) which could generate a significant cultural trend towards them. However, the presence of the Runefangs also creates bias towards swords, as they're almost certainly what each elector count will use.

In the end, I think that practicalities would most likely show themselves and similar attitudes to those that we saw in our Medieval period would come through.

A misconception that a lot of people make is that medieval Europe was backwards. They really weren't, they were just practical.. investing all their effort into developing more efficient weapons and armor; because that is what they cared about.

[Teljor]

everyone seems to forget though, KOTBS are not nessecaricly nobility, they are a sect of knights who come from all backgrounds, thus they jsut might have commoner wepons, they might not all be loaded and ahve the money to have a finely crafted sswords and sheilds.

[Jonas]

Um.

It's an Inner Circle knightly order, one would think they have armorers to provide for their members.

[kingsword]

I was checking those screenshots again and in fact two low-tier knights were using halberds (http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/images/screenshots/0607_SSt_03.jpg), the angle fooled me mistaking them for spears at first.

The weapons I was trying to describe earlier looked like those halberds pretty much but without the pole, using a shorter shaft instead. They had crushing hammer/axe-like (not as wide as a hammer head but thicker than an axe blade) heads with a spike at the back to puncture through heavier plate.

[Konrad Siegesruf]

Those two wielding halberds are in fact just Halberdiers.

[kingsword]

Their armor looks like tier 1 armor from concept art for KotBS though, how can you tell?

[Konrad Siegesruf]

Standard model and skin for the NPC Empire soldiers.

[Feigro]

Standard model and skin for the NPC Empire soldiers.

Most NPC dwarfs share the same look as alot... actually... all NPC Dwarfs share the look of careers. I've yet to see a Dwarf NPC not wearing a piece of class related armor.

Also, as to the above person posting history influences. While incredibly valid, you're forgetting one thing. While themes and influences may be drawn from the real world, the facts of our world don't inherently matter when it comes to implementation into a video game. While it can be argued Kotbs won't get axes for reasons such as not being a noble weapon or whathaveyou. It's equally arguable that Kotbs will get axes on one simple basis - Axes are cool.

Practicality doesn't inherently matter. Usually the only thing restricting these sorts of decisions are Warhammer lore. Not historical accuracy. Now once again, due to the inlfuence, it could be argued that something wouldn't get X weapon due to the history from which Warhammer draws upon. But since it's a game, and a fantasy, the designers can tell those facts to sod off, in place of variety and/or cool/iconicness.

[kingsword]

Hmm, true. They still use spears (which is like the least knightly weapon :p) though, wouldn't make much sense if they cannot use halberds as well. Or that spear proficiency in fact hints at lances for mounted combat! :eek:

[Teljor]

regardless of wether or not lore alows it (and we all know the lore has been bent, not snapped but bent like a slinkey), if it is cool and could fit in then it shouldnt be in, and giving a knight an axe, mace or halberd is not a total breakage or even a slinkey bend of the lore.

[Mighty Muffin]

#Edit. Wrong observations.

[blood beast]

I am beting they can use other weapons like maces and axes because their is no reason to restrict them to only swords.

[ChosenOne]

everyone seems to forget though, KOTBS are not nessecaricly nobility, they are a sect of knights who come from all backgrounds, thus they jsut might have commoner wepons, they might not all be loaded and ahve the money to have a finely crafted sswords and sheilds.


As I read through this thread, this is pretty much what I wanted to post. Glad I kept reading.

It has been said that these knights are more the lone wolf type that travel alone and come to the aid of those in need. Hence why their special abilities include their "commands". In the field they are very skilled at directing those lacking military training to work together in some semblance of order.

If these were the noble types they probably wouldn't be out mingling with the "lesser" folk as much. That leads me to believe that these knights probably rose up from the soldier ranks and thus might have become more proficient with weapons other then swords.

So as much as I would like to laugh at you guys across the battlefield that you Have to use swords...I personally don't feel it fits the class that they HAVE to use swords so here is to hoping you guys get some choice to your class like we chosen will have.

[Jonas]

Meh, don't apply modern day egalitarian mindsets to the situation.

They're still knights, and more specifically, Inner Circle knights.

Furthermore, they're still from a largely agrarian feudal society.

The second point largely rules out 'peasant' knights, as (historically - Warhammer may be different) most peasants were not freemen, but bound to their liege lord, in return for the land that they tilled. Security for freedom, in those days for peasants, it was generally a good choice. However some did run away.

Now, there were freemen historically; in cities normally but sometimes outside them. Actually, cities were rather important in the proliferation of freemen, because if you lived for a year and a day in a city, you became a free man; thus they were the destination of many runaway peasantry. However, most city dwellers were pretty busy with their lives, as without a lord to safeguard you, if you ran out of money, you starved to death etc..

So, lets look at the likely possibilities to join the order: Nobles and Wealthy Merchant's Sons (and daughters). Now, you don't just walk into a knightly order, get tapped on the shoulders, pick out your armor and be on your way. Knighthood took training; you started as page, usually when you were a young child, then as you became more experienced (and older) a squire, then eventually once you had learned all you needed to, a knight. The process usually took around 8 to 10 years, usually started when the supplicant was young and was as much their schooling as their military training. Empire Knights may differ from this, but I'd venture that it still would have taken quite some time.

Now, all of this is not to say that there might not be some commoners, possibly even some peasantry - although that is much more of a stretch. But the majority of Knights, even the KotBS, would be of noble bloodline, possibly sons/daughters of merchants who wanted to raise their family's station in life.

As for why they're out in the muck, helping the peasantry? Possibly they were employed by a local lord to do so. Possibly they are acting as their god has instructed them and using any tools that come to hand, employing strategy and tactic to overcome the chaos hordes, rather than simply calling on more of their order.

[ChosenOne]

Well....you figure it out. Im not playing one, Im just killing them. :D

[Jonas]

Convenient lore reference:

Absolutely. All other things being equal (wars, etc), life is much better for the commoners of the Empire than the Bretonnian peasants - hence the flood of Bretonnian peasants who try to run away to Marienburg and the notable absence of Empire folk clamoring for Bretonnian overlords.

What makes this the case?

1. Much higher average standard of living and income
A single copper coin for an entire military campaign is considered a good wage for a peasant bowman in Bretonnia. Bretonnian peasants are allowed to only keep one tenth of their crops for sustenance, where the knight gets 9/10ths of the crops. By contrast, the lowest peasant in the Empire gets 9-15 gold crowns a year (an unskilled laborer earns about 12 gold crowns a year), a rich farmer would get 15-25 gold crowns a year (so assume that your average farmer is somewhere in between at 12-20 gold crowns a year), and a skilled craftsman earns from 25-80 gold crowns a year. Artisans in the Empire are actually extremely well paid, given the strength of the guilds, earning 150-500 gold crowns a year which is about as much as a lesser noble would earn. Merchants probably earn the same, since they're also guilded, but I can't find any good statistics.
It's also worth noting that disparities of wealth are not as high as you'd imagine. Your typical lesser noble earns from 250-500 gold crowns a year, which is about as much as an artisan, but only ~10 times what a skilled craftsman earns. There's still a class hierarchy, but it's less steep than in most feudal societies. By point of reference, a year's worth of eating 3 Average Quality meals every day costs about 15 gold, a cow costs about 10 gold, and a Common Quality set of clothes costs about 1 gold.

2. Much higher legal status.
The average peasant in the Empire is a free peasant. The average resident of a city is a citizen of the city. Although not many, the citizens of the Empire do have some rights - the right to own property, the right to a trial, the right to freedom of movement (subject to tolls, etc.), the right to start a business or learn a trade - and have courts they can appeal to if their rights have been violated. The common folk of the Empire are notably independent, dodging laws they feel violate traditional rights, and rioting at the drop of a hat if they feel that the powers that be have gone too far.
By contrast, a Bretonnian peasant is chattel of his lord. They are required to work on the land (anyone who tries to leave his lord is considered an outlaw), they are required to turn over 9/10ths of their earnings and pay taxes on top of the 9/10ths, they are subject to the legal decisions of their lord without right of appeal, they can be killed by a noble without legal recourse, etc.

3. Much higher social mobility.
In the Empire, commoners can and have found different ways to rise in status - they can purchase or earn titles of nobility if they have the money, they can attend institutions of higher education if they have the money, and they can join some knightly orders if they have the money. Politics is also another venue for advancement, since there are lots of local mayors and sheriffs elected by the voters, there are regional parliaments and city councils, and there are also lots of positions in the Imperial and regional bureaucracies filled by peasants. Those without as much in the way of funds still can rise, by acquiring a trade and rising within the Guild system, or by taking up arms and becoming a career soldier, or by joining the clergy of the various churches.
In Bretonnia, it is illegal for a peasant to be anything but a peasant. Those who attempt to leave are outlaws. Only three peasants have ever been elevated to nobility, their children remain peasants (as do the children of a noble and a peasant), and all who have ever been elevated died very early into their careers in suspicious circumstances. Even the smallish merchant classes are legally peasants who maintain their status only by constant bribery.


As a rule, serfdom/classic peasantry wasn't as bad as they paint in Bretonnia, but it is interesting to know how they do it in the empire.

[Arcadox]

Conclusion:

Humans are a sick people.

Out of all the races, they are the most hypocritical and unfair to their own kind. Sure goblins are treated like dirt, but at least they have fun and get a chance at doing what they love. Sure Dark elves kill each other and others mercilessly, but they know the risks of their society and most have a chance at becoming something, rather then just becoming slaves. And sure, chaos are freaky and evil, but they can gain power and pleasure from their gods, and the humans of them choose to do what they do.

To me, humans, most notably Bretonnia, are some of the most immoral people in all of the warhammer world.

(oh, and to who ever watches anime, There is a Bretonnia nation in the anime "Code Geass" and they are quite akin to Warhammer's equivalent. check it out if you get the chance)

[Vikingkingq]

Meh, don't apply modern day egalitarian mindsets to the situation.

They're still knights, and more specifically, Inner Circle knights.

Furthermore, they're still from a largely agrarian feudal society.

The second point largely rules out 'peasant' knights, as (historically - Warhammer may be different) most peasants were not freemen, but bound to their liege lord, in return for the land that they tilled. Security for freedom, in those days for peasants, it was generally a good choice. However some did run away.

Now, there were freemen historically; in cities normally but sometimes outside them. Actually, cities were rather important in the proliferation of freemen, because if you lived for a year and a day in a city, you became a free man; thus they were the destination of many runaway peasantry. However, most city dwellers were pretty busy with their lives, as without a lord to safeguard you, if you ran out of money, you starved to death etc..

So, lets look at the likely possibilities to join the order: Nobles and Wealthy Merchant's Sons (and daughters). Now, you don't just walk into a knightly order, get tapped on the shoulders, pick out your armor and be on your way. Knighthood took training; you started as page, usually when you were a young child, then as you became more experienced (and older) a squire, then eventually once you had learned all you needed to, a knight. The process usually took around 8 to 10 years, usually started when the supplicant was young and was as much their schooling as their military training. Empire Knights may differ from this, but I'd venture that it still would have taken quite some time.

Now, all of this is not to say that there might not be some commoners, possibly even some peasantry - although that is much more of a stretch. But the majority of Knights, even the KotBS, would be of noble bloodline, possibly sons/daughters of merchants who wanted to raise their family's station in life.

As for why they're out in the muck, helping the peasantry? Possibly they were employed by a local lord to do so. Possibly they are acting as their god has instructed them and using any tools that come to hand, employing strategy and tactic to overcome the chaos hordes, rather than simply calling on more of their order.

Except that in the Empire, the peasants are free peasants, small farming landowners.
The son of a peasant would be unlikely to get into a Knightly Order - with the exception of the Templar Orders, who take recruits on the basis of religious devotion. However, farmer's sons wouldn't be unlikely if they could afford a horse and some training.

[Krulltak]

Conclusion:

Humans are a sick people.

Out of all the races, they are the most hypocritical and unfair to their own kind. Sure goblins are treated like dirt, but at least they have fun and get a chance at doing what they love. Sure Dark elves kill each other and others mercilessly, but they know the risks of their society and most have a chance at becoming something, rather then just becoming slaves. And sure, chaos are freaky and evil, but they can gain power and pleasure from their gods, and the humans of them choose to do what they do.

To me, humans, most notably Bretonnia, are some of the most immoral people in all of the warhammer world.

(oh, and to who ever watches anime, There is a Bretonnia nation in the anime "Code Geass" and they are quite akin to Warhammer's equivalent. check it out if you get the chance)


So what does this have to do with Knights and swords?




Oh and also, the majority of Chaos followers are human, so they also count as a way of showing thier evils.;) But I wouldn't say Old Worlders are as bad as Marauders.

[Jonas]

Except that in the Empire, the peasants are free peasants, small farming landowners.
The son of a peasant would be unlikely to get into a Knightly Order - with the exception of the Templar Orders, who take recruits on the basis of religious devotion. However, farmer's sons wouldn't be unlikely if they could afford a horse and some training.

The largest problem I can see with that is what is consistent with 'Freemen' throughout history: saving up enough money to send one of your kids off to "Knight School" would have been rather difficult. Further, most freemen in labor-intensive jobs would probably have wanted their children to help them and take over from them as they got older. You'd need a sizeable family to justify sending one of them off - and feeding a sizeable family wasn't cheap.

I'm just talking around the problems; I am sure with the society presented there would be some commoners becoming knights. However, I contend that the majority of knights would be of noble lineage. The next most numerous category would be from Merchant's sons etc.. and the fewest from the laboring classes.

That breakdown is probably the best for a game, as is allows anything. Unfortunately, my experience with situations such as this, people get confused with what is 'possible' and what is 'common'.

[Okri]

Anyhoo, back on topic: I sincerely hope that more weapons than just swords will be available to the Knights. It makes no sense to restrict them at least, adding a bunch of other great weapons like axes, maces, flails and maybe hammers (Just not those big Sledgehammer type ones). Spears and other assorted polearms I could do without, but axes and maces really should be a given.

[Godynial]

It would be a shame if KoTBS would be restricted to just swords. Spear is the icon of Myrmidia after all. Not the most knightly weapon but still. And Myrmidia is a deity from different culture so the knights could carry some more exotic weaponry (just assuming this last point).

And weird that anyone hasn't linked this already!
http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/empire/catalog/images/Emp_templarSun_lg.jpg

I think the knight is allowed to wield more than swords. :)

[Godynial]

The largest problem I can see with that is what is consistent with 'Freemen' throughout history: saving up enough money to send one of your kids off to "Knight School" would have been rather difficult. Further, most freemen in labor-intensive jobs would probably have wanted their children to help them and take over from them as they got older. You'd need a sizeable family to justify sending one of them off - and feeding a sizeable family wasn't cheap.

I'm just talking around the problems; I am sure with the society presented there would be some commoners becoming knights. However, I contend that the majority of knights would be of noble lineage. The next most numerous category would be from Merchant's sons etc.. and the fewest from the laboring classes.

That breakdown is probably the best for a game, as is allows anything. Unfortunately, my experience with situations such as this, people get confused with what is 'possible' and what is 'common'.

I remember reading that a common way for a commoner to become a knight in Empire would be through serving in military. The road would look something like this: State troops -> Champion -> Greatsword -> Knight.

[Grimfell Gromgear]

I remember reading that a common way for a commoner to become a knight in Empire would be through serving in military. The road would look something like this: State troops -> Champion -> Greatsword -> Knight.

I don't know about the Empire, but I know in Brettonia it's

Peasent -> Man at Arms... and... suffer in poverty as Man at Arms for the rest of your life. Wooh though, slight step up from peasent! (though you have to pay for all your own gear so... even if they pay you you'll probably end up in debt anyways)

[Okri]

And weird that anyone hasn't linked this already!
http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/empire/catalog/images/Emp_templarSun_lg.jpg


It would be weird if somebody hadn't... which just isn't the case.

Notice here (http://uk.games-workshop.com/empire/miniature-gallery/4/) that the Blazing Sun Grandmaster (the dude who leads the entire Order of the Blazing Sun) on the left holds an axe.

[Godynial]

It would be weird if somebody hadn't... which just isn't the case.

And so it seems. I stand corrected! I just half-assedly glimpsed through the pages. ;)

[Norick13]

one thing that worries me about this game is class restricted weapons. We know the warpriests and dwarven hammerers are more or lest restricted to hammer (understandable) but does that go for all the other classes? Knights restricted to swords, ranged combatants restricted to ranged weapons and daggers up close? The only class that seem to have the most freedom in melee combat is the chosen...


Well, I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. I can see what a Hammerer would be restricted, but there is nothing to make us think that KoTBS will be restricted. I mean why wouldn't we be able to use Pikes, and Halberds (Black Guard-esque weapon).

But, to be honest, I wouldn't be disappointed with swords only. From the weapon concept art I've seen so far, they have been making all of their weapons look really, really cool.

[Steel*Faith]

It's obvious from the lore, art, and screenshots that Kotbs will have a choice of weaponry.

A low leveled (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=797&c=2) Kotbs clearly is using a spear, and can wield a shield while using the spear. Even this higher leveled (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=793&c=2) knight is using a one handed spear, and is in a pose to hold a shield.

[Kurt Van Heldt]

What about the fact that before an Imperial Noble can get into a knightly order, thay have to gain experience in The Pistoleer Korps, which shoould mean that KotBS should be able to use, and be masters of pistols.

[Rizal]

Pistoliers are more so a stepping stone for the "noble" orders like the Reiksguard, Knights Panther, Knights Encarmine, etc. KotBS aren't a real noble order. They're a religious order with a larger emphasis on implementing strategy in all their conquests rather than just charging blindly. In this sense, they don't require all members to be nobles (though I figure it would help). Most may just be men/women with strong martial ability (and at least a measurable amount of reputation) who were willing to accept a new faith in Myrmidia. Unlike the other orders, they typically don't wait around for payments/debts to be made before they engage in a campaign. They answer the call when it is made. They may not be the largest order, nor the most well-funded, but they are propably the best at getting the job done and answering the call of duty when it comes to protecting the people of the empire. Thats why they're in WAR. Knights of the Blazing Sun, they rock.

As for weaponry, I'd like to use a polearm of some kind.

[Bork]

Recently heard a rumour that knights would get Swords, Axes and Maces, in one and two handed, as well as Polearms, with both spear and halberd falling under the term.
But yeah, ya know, rumours being rumours an all, wouldn't put too much stock in that.

[Boulvae]

KoTBs probably won't be restricted to just swords, although it wouldn't tick off the masses cause thats what a steriotypical knight weilds (i'm actually going YAY REAL KNIGHTS!!! when I look at this game) so yeah... if they're are going to be restricted i'd be happy with swords alone, that is IF.

Oh and when it came to Bretonnia, you'd actually be better off as a bowmen then a man at arms because the knights just pay you, and not provide you anything so you'd be in less a debt then a man-at-arms.

[Veridun]

As far as I've seen, the KoTBs can't use axes. Looted a crap axe from a random mob, can't equip. The word axe is highlighted in red, I'm not sure if that means I need to train the weapon skill or not for the KoTBs use. Was playing it a while last weekend.

[tribecalledquest]

Why the hell would they not use axes? Back in Medieval Times, knights and everyone else were always using short, curvy axes, flails too. And it's certainly no different in Warhammer.

Exactly

It's a shame im going to have to kill so many greenskins' i seem to agree with their views on this game a lot.

[Okri]

As far as I've seen, the KoTBs can't use axes. Looted a crap axe from a random mob, can't equip. The word axe is highlighted in red, I'm not sure if that means I need to train the weapon skill or not for the KoTBs use. Was playing it a while last weekend.

It could also mean that their animation for axes hasn't been made yet. From what I've heard, making the weapon-handling look realistic was a focus of the animators, and everyone will tell you that you don't seing an axe the same way as you swing a sword (which was the case in WoW, for instance).

In any case, it would royally suck it the Knights are restricted to only swords, which would leave you one or one class who can use axes (two if White Lions are added) and only three or four classes who can use hammers (although, I would rather have them use maces than hammers). They would probably be the only Order-class who could use spears as well. All Order side, of course.

[Sun]

Those two wielding halberds are in fact just Halberdiers.

Correct, however, the KOTBS in the back row is wielding a halberd. So the point is still valid.

Why the hell would they not use axes? Back in Medieval Times, knights and everyone else were always using short, curvy axes, flails too. And it's certainly no different in Warhammer.

She did not say they wouldn't wield axes. She said she hopes they don't. Matter of personal preference. Chill out.

[Dreadwind]

I'd love to wield a huge Halberd or Bardiche. Especially.. especially if they have a long reach.

Ripping off greenskin heads left and right.

[Demothios]

Considering KotBS also will be doing mounted combat, I cannot imagine them not being able to use warhammers. After all, a long-handled warhammer would be used from the horse to knock in the helmets of the infantry. So warhammers I would think, are in.

Mind you, that actual warhammers although the handle is long, the tip isn't that big. It doesn't need to be.

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/f/fc/War_hammer2.jpg

[ChosenOne]

Considering KotBS also will be doing mounted combat, I cannot imagine them not being able to use warhammers. After all, a long-handled warhammer would be used from the horse to knock in the helmets of the infantry. So warhammers I would think, are in.

Mind you, that actual warhammers although the handle is long, the tip isn't that big. It doesn't need to be.

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/f/fc/War_hammer2.jpg

While in action and in truth your example of a warhammer is the one that works the best in reality, in a game setting it isnt necessarily about what would actually work the best but what looks the best. If you offer up a hammer like yours depicted and one with a much larger head and details a majority of players will most likely pick the larger one as the more powerful and thus higher level.

Its what players want to see and generally what the maker of the game focuses towards.

Besides, part of the effectiveness of an epic weapon is the initial affect of seeing it and what that does to the enemy. Larger tends to be more awe inspiring despite whether its actually more deadly. Its iconic.

That being said it would be sad to see knights only able to use swords when historically knights becamed learned in the use of many different weapons. If they were disarmed in combat they might have to pick up whatever is nearest and that may not be the same type of weapon they started with.

[Kopesh]

My guess is that not only the KoBS, but all Tank classes will be able to use multible weapon types. The Melee DPS classes on the other hand are more restricted: Hammerers use hammers, Witch Elves use daggers etc. However, there is nothing that restricts the Tank classes. As long as the weapon is bigger than a dagger then it's perfect for a Tank class. I think that they will be able to use almost any weapon combination: one-handed, two-handed, with or without shields.

[ChosenOne]

My guess is that not only the KoBS, but all Tank classes will be able to use multible weapon types. The Melee DPS classes on the other hand are more restricted: Hammerers use hammers, Witch Elves use daggers etc. However, there is nothing that restricts the Tank classes. As long as the weapon is bigger than a dagger then it's perfect for a Tank class. I think that they will be able to use almost any weapon combination: one-handed, two-handed, with or without shields.

Swordmasters might be an exception to that. Two handers yes, one hander with shield yes. But anything but swords? Quite possible they wont be able to.

[Gemini]

Agreed, everything but the Swordmasters should get multiple types. We already know a few of them too. Black Orcs get Choppas and Bashas, Ironbreakers get Axes and Hammers, and the Black Guard gets more than just halbreds, probably at least those swords they always show.

[Endemikus]

Original question: Dude, do we, like, just get to use swords or what?
Answer: [Encyclopedia entry].


Not that I'm insulting you or anything. I'm impressed, it just seems a bit overkill.

LMAO :grin:

On topic:
I can't see Mythic restricting any class to a single type of weapon (with the possible exception of casters (Magus using staves only etc.)). They've said themselves that the next big MMO has to meet or exceed the bar set by WoW, so I think/hope they'll avoid restricting melee classes to one weapon-type.

I agree with a lot of the other posters; only being able to use a sword on your Empire knight won't be a game-killer, especially if they all look super badass :)

[Galahad]

I can see Chosen and The Knight being equal in terms of a wide variety of weapons, axes, pole-arms, swords, hammers etc. I wouldn't understand why Mythic would limit a class like The Knight for any IP or gameplay reasons.

[Mirac]

I've seen them with swords and spears so far.

[ToxicFear]

i HOPE they will be able to use bows also as like a secondary, for back line or pulling or deff's on the walls. but i love the feel and look of a sword but i must say BOW's are my fav by far!

[Konrad Siegesruf]

i HOPE they will be able to use bows also as like a secondary, for back line or pulling or deff's on the walls. but i love the feel and look of a sword but i must say BOW's are my fav by far!

I would prefer a good old Empire handgun, or perhaps even a freaking Hochland Longrifle. So far we haven't seen anything that suggests we have such a thing, instead we have the basic 'Throw' ability. Bah, I hope we get some secondary weapons for ranged, a Hochland Longrifle would be absolutely nice, but unlikely. I would love a standard Handgun though, even if only for shooting from the walls or pulling :p.

[Flegler]

A pistol would be quite appropriate, knights commonly carried them IRL and the Empire army is established as having pistol-armed cavalry.

I can't see a dude in full plate armour pulling a bow though. Leave that one for the peasants.

[Konrad Siegesruf]

A pistol would be quite appropriate, knights commonly carried them IRL and the Empire army is established as having pistol-armed cavalry.

I can't see a dude in full plate armour pulling a bow though. Leave that one for the peasants.

I agree, it's better to have a pistol than the basic throw ability(Which seems to make no sense at all, why is he throwing his sword?), and it's faster to pull forth and fire with than my handgun ^^.

[ToxicFear]

a gun would be ok i guess better then a throw move LOL but i really would like to have a mounted bow attack. i just like the older skhool ones im not so much into the gun thing. but i dont like crossbows :-? but yea bows would be awesome.

[kingsword]

Knights don't use bows, you know.. :rolleyes:

[Okri]

Knights don't use bows, you know.. :rolleyes:

Myeah well, no, knight's typically don't, though I imagine that perhaps a knight of a more eastern descent probably could. Still, if it was a choice between the two; Pistols all the way.

[ToxicFear]

well im a diff knight one that no one has ever come acrossed :) i use bows! :grin: and how do u know knights dont use bows? lol u live in that time? there might have been some that did and didnt, is a knight a ,mindset? or some one that use servers the there kingdom? an archer could get knighted by the king/queen.... does that mean he has to stop his best trade cuz he/she now called a knight?

[Boulvae]

Actually Knights in Warhammer, from Brettonia and Empire don't use bows. Empire because it's inconvient, or just not thought of yet and Brettonia because it's not 'honorable' to do it.

Samurai would be the equivilant to Knights in their era, and they sometimes could use bows - infact ones that were prowess with bows openly used them if the situation called for it. Europe Knights used bows - not all but some, it could be because archery could serve as an extra skill and bragging rights or it was many things that they were trained since their beginning of Knighthood. But then again you could ask their peons if they've got a bow in their master's weapon stache.

[ChosenOne]

I would say a knight using a bow doesnt make sense for one reason. Range of movement. You wear heavy plate armor and try reaching over your shoulder to your back to pull an arrow from your quiver then pull back and try to fire it while balancing all that armor. Loading a gun and firing is much more likely.

Loading and firing a bow from horseback in all that armor? Thats just....well that would be one hell of an impressive feat.

[Gemini]

It is my understanding that a large fraction of medieval knights were trained with a bow, but did not bring one in combat. It would be used for hunting, archery tournaments, or whatever else you might use a bow for, but not generally taken into battle by the knights.

That being said, a pistol would make sense for the KotBS, at least more than a bow would, but I still wouldn't count on it.

[Lord_Mortimer_88]

well at least in england a knight would have been a trained archer for two reasons

1 hunting was commonplace
2 king henry the 8th(could have been 6th) ordered that every englishman must learn to use a longbow. however this is mainly because generically english knights were inferior to those of their enemies ie france :D

pistolliers are units of young nobles who are formed to learn to ride and learn warfare pistols are used as each pistollier is equipped by his own family and orignally id imagine that it was deemed the most appropriate weapon for the untried nobility as their parents hardly want their sons to be killed.

not many of the pistolliers become knights as indocvtrination into an order is often through the church and more "bretonian" than one would imagine

most of those who will become knights will become one through the buying of commisions in certain "orders" that are less pious an example is the reiksguard

others who remain in sevice of the empire will end up as Captains and or generals which in terms of physics gets complicated as an imperial captain can have a longbow and be mounted in full plate armour some pistolliers also progress into outriders

to cut the story short im not so sure about tye blazing sun however the pious orders wouldnt use pistols as they are rather ignoble weapons however the less pious ones would find the practice acceptable longbows however wouldnt be

[Dan gerous]

Knights and guns. Never heard of it.

[Konrad Siegesruf]

well at least in england a knight would have been a trained archer for two reasons

1 hunting was commonplace
2 king henry the 8th(could have been 6th) ordered that every englishman must learn to use a longbow. however this is mainly because generically english knights were inferior to those of their enemies ie france :D

pistolliers are units of young nobles who are formed to learn to ride and learn warfare pistols are used as each pistollier is equipped by his own family and orignally id imagine that it was deemed the most appropriate weapon for the untried nobility as their parents hardly want their sons to be killed.

not many of the pistolliers become knights as indocvtrination into an order is often through the church and more "bretonian" than one would imagine

most of those who will become knights will become one through the buying of commisions in certain "orders" that are less pious an example is the reiksguard

others who remain in sevice of the empire will end up as Captains and or generals which in terms of physics gets complicated as an imperial captain can have a longbow and be mounted in full plate armour some pistolliers also progress into outriders

to cut the story short im not so sure about tye blazing sun however the pious orders wouldnt use pistols as they are rather ignoble weapons however the less pious ones would find the practice acceptable longbows however wouldnt be

The majority of the Empire Knightly Orders are not really what one could call pious. Some orders, like the Order of the Hammers of Sigmar could be called a pious order because of their religious background.
Now to the point about the ignoble weapons, they really aren't bound by a code of honor like the Bretonnian knights, and such may freely use guns and pistols, the Empire 7th Edition Army book even have an artpiece where a full armored knight shoots with a pistol.
Besides, the Knights of the Blazing Sun care far less about honor and glory like the other orders, but rather about winning no matter how ignoble methods they use, like having a hidden dagger behind the shield or shooting with a pistol. ;)

[Grathir]

Besides, the Knights of the Blazing Sun care far less about honor and glory like the other orders, but rather about winning no matter how ignoble methods they use, like having a hidden dagger behind the shield or shooting with a pistol.

I kinda like that. Its about surviving, whatever the cost may be!!!

[ToxicFear]

I dont care i would love to have a bow on the back and might use it more then mele but i dont know. i hate guns :confused: i stand behind my bow 110%

[The Penguin Hunter]

I dont care i would love to have a bow on the back and might use it more then mele but i dont know. i hate guns :confused: i stand behind my bow 110%


O.o ... you're a tank....

[ToxicFear]

O.o ... you're a tank....

doesnt mean i wont tank....it could do alot of things help shoot of the wall of castle then if they break it go down a fight, or just mess around. pull mobs, try and take aggro back from afar idk they dont have a human archer class so i will have to improviz:p

[Vimes]

Looking here (http://www.war-resource.com/races.php) in the articles of some classes, that have abilities form various conventions and such in them, it seems that Melee classes will have throwing attacks.

Examples are Black Orc´s "Throw", Choppa´s "Choppa Hurl" or (most likely) Hammerer´s "Fling Hammer".

Oh, and retaking Aggro over range, that´s what Taunt is for ;-)

[Valador]

O.o ... you're a tank....

Bows in Lineage 2 were so over powered anyone could pwn with them. Give a focus (crit raise increasing) bow to a tank and he can become a fortified turret mowing down squishies in a few bow crits.

[Boulvae]

I believe tanks will be more restricted to none ranged weapons, or atleast most of them being that it might not be part of their niche.

Black Gaurd's get 2-H Pole-Arms (maybe 2-H Swords aswell), dual weildable Swords, and the old Sword and board.

Black Orc's get Bashas, Smashas, and Choppas in probably all forms (i've yet to directly pin-point the difference between a Basha and a Smasha except that Smashas are probably the 2-H weapons).

Sword Masters I don't think get sheilds (because they don't really need them), but you get swords out the bloody yin-yang.

Ironbreakers get Axes and Hammers, dual weildable, or 2-H i'm not that sure because i've mostly seen them with a 1-H and a Sheild.

Knights of the Blazing Sun (KotBS for all you people whom might just be using that shortened version and never knew what it actually REALLY meant) obviously get the patented Sword and board, they get 2-H swords, AND they might get pole-arms also (it's hinted heavily towards that outcome) in the end.

The Chosen so far get Axes, Swords, and Sheilds nothing more nothing less (so far), they might get maces too but I doubt it.

Just to remind people Mythic is not trying to overcome the 900lb gorilla of MMORPGs they openly admit not trying to do that and also to not trying to become, "the next WoW".

[Okri]

I believe tanks will be more restricted to none ranged weapons, or atleast most of them being that it might not be part of their niche.

Black Gaurd's get 2-H Pole-Arms (maybe 2-H Swords aswell), dual weildable Swords, and the old Sword and board.

Black Orc's get Bashas, Smashas, and Choppas in probably all forms (i've yet to directly pin-point the difference between a Basha and a Smasha except that Smashas are probably the 2-H weapons).

Sword Masters I don't think get sheilds (because they don't really need them), but you get swords out the bloody yin-yang.

Ironbreakers get Axes and Hammers, dual weildable, or 2-H i'm not that sure because i've mostly seen them with a 1-H and a Sheild.

Knights of the Blazing Sun (KotBS for all you people whom might just be using that shortened version and never knew what it actually REALLY meant) obviously get the patented Sword and board, they get 2-H swords, AND they might get pole-arms also (it's hinted heavily towards that outcome) in the end.

The Chosen so far get Axes, Swords, and Sheilds nothing more nothing less (so far), they might get maces too but I doubt it.

Just to remind people Mythic is not trying to overcome the 900lb gorilla of MMORPGs they openly admit not trying to do that and also to not trying to become, "the next WoW".

Swordmasters will get shields, if not, then who will get this (http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/images/conceptArt/CnAT100725.jpg) and this (http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/images/conceptArt/CnAT100727.jpg)? Mind you, they were shown in the newsletter where Swordmasters were showcased.
Ironbreakers won't be able to dual-wield, but can use two-handed weapons.
The Chosen does use maces, there have been several concept arts of chaos maces.

Anyhoo, off-topicism.

But Knights should be able to use more than just swords (and possiblye spears). There is no reason why they shouldn't, even if it wouldn't really mean anything to the gameplay.

[Boulvae]

I always figured those maces in the concept art are for the Marauder's main-hand.

[Okri]

I always figured those maces in the concept art are for the Marauder's main-hand.

Well, they could be. They don't look particularly Marauder-ish, though, at least not anymore than the other weapons.

[Remis Mormegil]

Listen on this end I really don't need all that much variety. Give me a 2handed something and I'll give you a piles of bodies.


It's a done deal.

[Wolfbane]

Hehe. No you won't. You're a tank. Maybe your Witch hunters will, but not you ;)

[Addelbreich]

On the KotBS page on the WarhammerOnline site:
"Swords of all kinds - one-handed (with shield) and massive two-handed weapons."
http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/gameInfo/armiesofWAR/Empire/Careers/KnightofhteBS.php

I'd say this meant all types of swords and also any large two handed weapon such as an axe or mace.

Here (http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/images/careers/KOBS_10.jpg) is one with a spear

[Vimes]

I´d say that meant all kinds of Swords, one handed or two handed. I wouldn´t read the usage of other Weapons like Axes ore Maces out of that description.

Anyway, I´d say that other Weapons might be useable (like halberds and spears, as the screenshots show), but we have no real evidence yet. Screenshots from Beta are likely subject to change ^^

[Wolfbane]

I "could" post some sreenies, but i will get banned, since i am an NDA-breaker, silly me.

[Gemini]

I "could" post some sreenies, but i will get banned, since i am an NDA-breaker, silly me.

Then why bother posting at all?

[Wolfbane]

Oh, think about it. If you want screenshots, but i can't post them, then what should you do?

[Gemini]

Report your post?

[Grathir]

Report your post?

Made me laugh after a long day...thanks

[Wolfbane]

You can do that if you wish. Too bad though.

[happyhours]

Hehe. No you won't. You're a tank. Maybe your Witch hunters will, but not you ;)

Man this attitude is annoying.

I realise that we are tanks yes, I understand that we are not the UBAR PAWN of doing damage, however why is a constantly critised whenever the tanks (especially these KotBS posts) even suggest that the may ever actually kill someone =S

Its not like our damage is obsolete?!?!?

Sorry to those who think this post is innapropriate/griping or whatever, but its a niggle that has niggled too much. Its like posting to a Witchhunter "No the tanks take damage, you will never get hit..."

I do understand that there is are a constant flow of posts from people assuming they will be nigh on invulnerable and slay everyone, but that still doesn't mean that we are allergic to -kickery!

[Gareg]

Personally, I can see a KofBS using melee weapons other than swords. They would have to be fashioned appropriately to more realistic characteristics. More realistic than say an Orc Choppa.

But what if they were restricted to just swords? I'm not an expert on them, but aren't there many different kinds? There are some that are built more for thrusting, others slashing, and others still chopping. There is a lot of variety when it comes to swords.

[Boulvae]

Witch Hunters get those designed for thusting, Knights of the Blazing Sun will most likely get those made for chopping, and those made for bashing. Even the type of weapon will be restricted, but thats more for looks then for anything.

[Willstar]

They'll be getting their spears and halberds as well, no worries.

[Gemini]

They'll be getting their spears and halberds as well, no worries.

I'd like a side of source with my info.

[Rezzan]

I'd like a side of source with my info.

http://mythicmktg.fileburst.net/war/us/home/images/armiesofWAR/empire/KOBS_10.jpg

[Gemini]

We have seen that picture before, but people always said it was a town gaurd or some such thing. However, the link must have been different because it clearly shows in the file name that it's a KOBS. Thanks for settling that.

[Wolfbane]

Man this attitude is annoying.
Sure. I was looking forward for someone to point that out, took a long time.

[Wolfbane]

We have seen that picture before, but people always said it was a town gaurd or some such thing. However, the link must have been different because it clearly shows in the file name that it's a KOBS. Thanks for settling that.There are a lot of wandering guards and NPCs in the game that look like armored t4 Kotbs, which is strange if you ask me.

[Okri]

There are a lot of wandering guards and NPCs in the game that look like armored t4 Kotbs, which is strange if you ask me.

Probably placeholders. Hopefully placeholders.

[Flegler]

Yeah, I noticed the guards in the Emperor's palace are wearing Blazing Sun armour when you'd expect them to be Reiksguard. I think it's probably just the only finished suit of full plate they have for the Empire. It would explain the discrepancy between the armour and shields as well.