Dual Wield Swordmaster Speculation

[dynamo112]

Based on this highly speculated comparison a question for me had arisen, is it possible Mythic gainned permission to allow HE Swordmasters to be able to dual wield? I think it's certainly a possibility given that we know Hammerers can dual wield and use 2h'ers. That said it only increases the chance that we'll see swordmasters as a playable career. (if it's in the lore that swordmasters NEVER dual wield I dont see it being a HUGE problem for GW to allow Mythic the ability to make Swordmasters a DW'ing career.)

Comparisons:

1. http://www.warhammeralliance.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=592&c=3

2. http://us.games-workshop.com/games/w...ordmasters.htm

I started a new thread on this because it was centered primarily around speculation of Swordmasters dual wielding. The career confirmation speculation was just a bonus. :p

[Vikingkingq]

Based on this highly speculated comparison a question for me had arisen, is it possible Mythic gainned permission to allow HE Swordmasters to be able to dual wield? I think it's certainly a possibility given that we know Hammerers can dual wield and use 2h'ers. That said it only increases the chance that we'll see swordmasters as a playable career. (if it's in the lore that swordmasters NEVER dual wield I dont see it being a HUGE problem for GW to allow Mythic the ability to make Swordmasters a DW'ing career.)

Comparisons:

1. http://www.warhammeralliance.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=592&c=3

2. http://us.games-workshop.com/games/w...ordmasters.htm

I started a new thread on this because it was centered primarily around speculation of Swordmasters dual wielding. The career confirmation speculation was just a bonus. :p

You raise a very good point. In the TT, Hammerers only wield 2-h hammers, etc.
Adding the ability to go dual-wield or two-handed would be very cool.

One thing tho: shouldn't this be moved into the Swordmaster subforum?

[dynamo112]

You raise a very good point. In the TT, Hammerers only wield 2-h hammers, etc.
Adding the ability to go dual-wield or two-handed would be very cool.

One thing tho: shouldn't this be moved into the Swordmaster subforum?

Yeah, lol. I just realized I should have put it in SM subforum. If a mod reads this please transfer if you deem it necessary. Thanks!

[Valand]

in the lore they are trained with every weapon possbile it wouldn't be a stretch to make them able to dual wield.

"These are the Swordmasters, though they are not only exprets with a blade; they also learn to fight with their bare hands or any other weapon they can reach, especially their finely balanced ceremonial greatswords." - taken from the HE codex

[Arcadox]

First off, I want to say how cool swordmasters are. I'm very excited that they will probably be in the game.

Now, as to duel-wield. I see no problem with it. I think I'd prefer a huge 2h sword, but that's just me. Duel-wielding is more of a DE trait to me, but if they did not allow swordmasters to have it, that would be fine with me.

I would be concerned if they gave them a shield option though. I really don't think swordmasters should have shields, even if they are the tank class. Preferably, I'd like them to have powerful parry and evasion moves if they are a tank class. Would be very interesting.

[Vikingkingq]

First off, I want to say how cool swordmasters are. I'm very excited that they will probably be in the game.

Now, as to duel-wield. I see no problem with it. I think I'd prefer a huge 2h sword, but that's just me. Duel-wielding is more of a DE trait to me, but if they did not allow swordmasters to have it, that would be fine with me.

I would be concerned if they gave them a shield option though. I really don't think swordmasters should have shields, even if they are the tank class. Preferably, I'd like them to have powerful parry and evasion moves if they are a tank class. Would be very interesting.

Definitely no shield.

What I would like is to have them start out with the Greatword, pick up the two single-handed swords as an option, but to always carry the Greatsword on their backs even when they have the two swords out and are using them.

[Aeldor]

I really don't like the idea of swordsmasters being able to wield anything other than the greatswords of which they are famed. This is purely a cosmetic/lore choice on my part though, and I would still consider them thematic if they duel wielded. My pure reason for this is that yes, while they are trained in any weapon, that doesnt alter the fact that in times of war they almost exclusively use their chosen weapons. The extra training is merely part of their chosen vocation, that of a warrior monk. If disarmed they can fighht with equal skill no matter which weapon they have w rested from their enemies.

It is a totally personal thought on my part though tbh.

[Feigro]

On a similiar, albeit unrelated note. It bothers me that the bulk of Hammerer media showcases Hammerers dual wielding. There's very little to no emphasis on their great hammers, which is essentially the most iconic thing about them.

I'd no doubt see similiar faire with the HE to be honest, because apparently DW is the "hip" thing these days. Though I wonder why the Dwarf emphasis in particular, is Dual wielding. It should be the other way around, 90% of the footage should have a 2h hammer showcased, whilst the devs say, "oh yeah.. they can DW too, but great hammers are great!"

/boggle

[Anwahir]

It seems that hammerers have been able to use the 2 handed hammers in some screens, possibly and hopefully if swordmasters get duel wielding they still can get their greatswords at some point. I agree, both are iconic two handed weapons in Fantasy lore and TT. I wouldn't have a problem with the possibility of duel wielding as long as the greatswords are in as well.

[dynamo112]

I really don't like the idea of swordsmasters being able to wield anything other than the greatswords of which they are famed. This is purely a cosmetic/lore choice on my part though, and I would still consider them thematic if they duel wielded. My pure reason for this is that yes, while they are trained in any weapon, that doesnt alter the fact that in times of war they almost exclusively use their chosen weapons. The extra training is merely part of their chosen vocation, that of a warrior monk. If disarmed they can fighht with equal skill no matter which weapon they have w rested from their enemies.

It is a totally personal thought on my part though tbh.

Well, it's always nice to have options. Im sure melee classes will all be able to use different weapons than what they are name branded for.

[Aeldor]

Aye you could be right. I just think it would be a terrible shame if we see swordmasters running around with axes/hammers. The staff making the game have stated that they want each class to be instantly recognisable, and that is the reason that hammerers will only be able to wield hammers. What better way to notice a High Elf swordsmaster than the size of his blade :P

As i said though, at the end of the day withuot choice poeople would get bored fast, so i imagine duel wield will be in. Personally if i play a swordmaster i will only use the two-hander though, as i feel it represents them better.

[Dracnye]

in the lore they are trained with every weapon possbile it wouldn't be a stretch to make them able to dual wield.

"These are the Swordmasters, though they are not only exprets with a blade; they also learn to fight with their bare hands or any other weapon they can reach, especially their finely balanced ceremonial greatswords." - taken from the HE codex

Yes but they prefer to fight with their ceremonial greatswords, more then any other weapon, though they can use just about anything they could find, and are skilled at unarmed fighting.

So there is the possibility of dual wielding, but I would expect them to get the most bonus from using a 2-handed greatsword, specifically designed for the Swordmasters.

[Vikingkingq]

Well, it's always nice to have options. Im sure melee classes will all be able to use different weapons than what they are name branded for.

Yes and no. Yes there will be options, but no you can't use something you're not associated with - that's breaking with the whole "does what it says" mantra. Hence, Hammerers - can use one-handed and two-handed hammerers, maybe even throwing hammers, but not axes. Swordmasters - one- and two-handed swords, but not hammers.

[dynamo112]

Yes and no. Yes there will be options, but no you can't use something you're not associated with - that's breaking with the whole "does what it says" mantra. Hence, Hammerers - can use one-handed and two-handed hammerers, maybe even throwing hammers, but not axes. Swordmasters - one- and two-handed swords, but not hammers.

Yeah I knew that, it's pretty much a given. :p



Aye you could be right. I just think it would be a terrible shame if we see swordmasters running around with axes/hammers. The staff making the game have stated that they want each class to be instantly recognisable, and that is the reason that hammerers will only be able to wield hammers. What better way to notice a High Elf swordsmaster than the size of his blade :P

As i said though, at the end of the day withuot choice poeople would get bored fast, so i imagine duel wield will be in. Personally if i play a swordmaster i will only use the two-hander though, as i feel it represents them better.


Oh if I do happen to play a Swordmaster (chances of that happening are really good to I might add) I will without a doubt use 2handers for the majority of the time. Very unique to the career. :)

[Altharius]

I think if you want to dual weild go ahead. But why stab someone twice when you can cut them in half with a mighty sweep of you great sword. I personally plan on weilding my Greatsword most of the time.

[Lotho]

I think there should be benefits to using a 2hander over duelwielding. It still gives people other options but encourages the traditional TT look! I know i'll be using a 2hander if If swordmasters are in.

[SirSeptin]

if there is bonuses to using a 2-h sword that make it better than DW then what is even the point in given people the option to DW? Its pointless since itd just be an option to gimp yourself. Yes swordmasters greatswords are the most iconic but you can't say that all swordmasters will be the same, they all use greatswords in TT because it gives the unit a unified feel. I'm sure there are swordmaster who's choice is smaller weapons but they can use the greatswords with just as much skill so they can use them to identify themselves as swordmasters.

[Dustandpolos]

Well I think we'll see Swordmaster dual wield only if DPS class and swords only. It fits with the lore and doesnt limit people, thus pleasing a wider audience - people who think they sould only use greatswords can stick with greatsword while dual wielders are happy too. I think Vikingq's right though, no shields - doesn't fit warrior monks/Swordmaster style at all. The lore allows for it technically, but then technically they could be given repeater handguns and cavalry hammers.

That said, I'd prefer 2-handers only; for me it's their big, maybe only, visually identifying feature. But then I would've preferred Hammerers to stick with 2-handers for the same reason plus lore reasons; such tradeoffs have to be made, and its not a big enough issue to complain about.

[VeriusCarth]

As some have stated before. Gameplay > Lore.

Just because a lot of us really like and support the lore, doesn't mean everyone will, and come time when those people rear their ugly heads, they will demand options like Dual Wielding... and Mythic shall grant this request! They like their hardcore Warhammer fans, but we're the minority, and they still have to make money.

[dynamo112]

if there is bonuses to using a 2-h sword that make it better than DW then what is even the point in given people the option to DW? Its pointless since itd just be an option to gimp yourself. Yes swordmasters greatswords are the most iconic but you can't say that all swordmasters will be the same, they all use greatswords in TT because it gives the unit a unified feel. I'm sure there are swordmaster who's choice is smaller weapons but they can use the greatswords with just as much skill so they can use them to identify themselves as swordmasters.

What's the point of allowing hammerers to use 2h hammers and DW'ing hammers? Im sure Mythic has good reasoning for it and good reasoning to allow Swordmasters to DW short swords.

[SirSeptin]

Dynamo: uhhh?

Thats exactly my point? Not sure.....what...your point is...Seeing as I was in favour of DW...?

[VeriusCarth]

Dynamo: uhhh?

Thats exactly my point? Not sure.....what...your point is...Seeing as I was in favour of DW...?

If you read your last post, it's a bit misleading, and could be taken as if you're saying that DWing would only gimp you.

[dynamo112]

if there is bonuses to using a 2-h sword that make it better than DW then what is even the point in given people the option to DW?

This doesnt sound like being in favor of DW, in fact it sounds like your against it. But now you say your all for it..? :confused:

Basically what you ask is what's the point of having DW as opposed to the iconic 2h swords. I pointed out that there must be a good reason for it...because Mythic is allowing Hammerers to use 2h hammers and DW hammers. Get it? Cant get any simplier than that so im sorry if you still cant understand it.

[everar]

Swordmasters will not be dual wielding, because they are the tank class.
Shadow warriors are the dps class.
Seers, support.
Archmage, ranged.

[roadkizzle]

And where did you get that information from??? The Masked Prince? Or are you also going to refuse to give your sources?

[dynamo112]

Swordmasters will not be dual wielding, because they are the tank class.
Shadow warriors are the dps class.
Seers, support.
Archmage, ranged.

Proof please.

Swordmasters don't use shields so if they are in they are obviously going to be the melee DPS. I'd imagine both Swordmasters and Shadow Warriors wont be in together because niether are really a tank class when you think about..(correct me if im wrong). *sigh* another 2 weeks and we'll know.

[VeriusCarth]

Swordmasters will not be dual wielding, because they are the tank class.
Shadow warriors are the dps class.
Seers, support.
Archmage, ranged.

Not that I wouldn't prefer any of that, but where are your sources?

And how does it compensate for the pet class?

[Mirander]

...or Swordmasters will be a tank that relies on speed and agility rather than armor, and thus doesn't use a shield.

[dynamo112]

...or Swordmasters will be a tank that relies on speed and agility rather than armor, and thus doesn't use a shield.

*prays this isnt correct*

[Arcadox]

Proof please.

Swordmasters don't use shields so if they are in they are obviously going to be the melee DPS. I'd imagine both Swordmasters and Shadow Warriors wont be in together because niether are really a tank class when you think about..(correct me if im wrong). *sigh* another 2 weeks and we'll know.

Actually, it's gonna be announced on the 22nd, exactly 1 week from now. At least that's some good news :D

[dynamo112]

Yeah that's awesome, it put a smile on me. :)

[Linkusmax]

I'm betting SM will be the tank class.

Especially due to the comment the elf classes would not be your typical sword and board style tanks.

[Noesis]

White Lions would have been a better choice for DPS imo.

Much cooler t hen Shadow Warriors...

[roadkizzle]

@Linkus, what about White Lions with white lions as tanks? Would that be your typical sword and board tank?

I think that if swordmasters are melee dps then they will have dual-wielding as an option, but if they are tanks, then it may not fit as well. Although, it could be easier to block/parry with two swords than one.

Edit: @Noesis, well in my opinion, swordmasters would be a bad choice for tank, but good for dps.

[Linkusmax]

With their Light armour and high strength White Lions just dont fit as tanks, even with a pet (I think a White Lion with a pet would fit better in Melee DPS than Tank)

[Eltair Shadowblade]

Proof please.

Swordmasters don't use shields so if they are in they are obviously going to be the melee DPS. I'd imagine both Swordmasters and Shadow Warriors wont be in together because niether are really a tank class when you think about..(correct me if im wrong). *sigh* another 2 weeks and we'll know.

you are so wrong, they already stated that the elven tank class wouldn't be the traditional sword 'n board type.

the chance for swordsmasters being tank isn't that low, and it would give the elf tank class one hell of a gimmick

[dynamo112]

you are so wrong, they already stated that the elven tank class wouldn't be the traditional sword 'n board type.

the chance for swordsmasters being tank isn't that low, and it would give the elf tank class one hell of a gimmick

My bet goes with Whitelion being the tank class, what's cooler than a tank with a pet?? Logically when you think of someone or something as a Swordmaster you think of them as being deadly with a sword slaying enemies, where as a Knight fits the defend my city and friends with sword n' shield sort of thing. Makes sense I think...

But if for some god awful reason Mythic decides to make Swordmasters the tank class...i'll mark that as a personal opinion mistake in my book.

[Nerothos]

My bet goes with Whitelion being the tank class, what's cooler than a tank with a pet?? Logically when you think of someone or something as a Swordmaster you think of them as being deadly with a sword slaying enemies, where as a Knight fits the defend my city and friends with sword n' shield sort of thing. Makes sense I think...

That's where you contradict yourself, though. White Lions aren't Knights. They're stubborn protectors of the Pheonix King, but by no means do they bind themselves to any kind of code or order.

The problem with Elves is that taking hits is not their gimmick. So they need a new one, and so far, the most flexible and openly obvious is a parry/dodge/whatever you want to call it tank. Unless EA Mythic pulls another bout of creativity out of their behinds (wouldn't doubt it :p), chances are, we'll see some kind of tank like that. Swordmasters fit the bill more than White Lions.

[dynamo112]

That's where you contradict yourself, though. White Lions aren't Knights. They're stubborn protectors of the Pheonix King, but by no means do they bind themselves to any kind of code or order.

The problem with Elves is that taking hits is not their gimmick. So they need a new one, and so far, the most flexible and openly obvious is a parry/dodge/whatever you want to call it tank. Unless EA Mythic pulls another bout of creativity out of their behinds (wouldn't doubt it :p), chances are, we'll see some kind of tank like that. Swordmasters fit the bill more than White Lions.

*sigh* Im seriously going to throw a hissy fit if they make SM's the tank class... :(

[Nerothos]

*sigh* Im seriously going to throw a hissy fit if they make SM's the tank class... :(

Join the club, I've already thrown my hissy fit at the mention of the stupid HE pet class. :D

[VeriusCarth]

Well, if it's the White Lions, and they're melee pet classes, it's not so bad, really. At least they're kicking the class in the face where it does the least damage.

[kumoblade]

I personally think the Phoenix Guard are going to be the Tank class and the Swordmasters' be the DPS. This would make me very muchly happy if that's the case. Swordmasters are just Boss.

[wellsy]

I personally think the Phoenix Guard are going to be the Tank class and the Swordmasters' be the DPS. This would make me very muchly happy if that's the case. Swordmasters are just Boss.

OK, I will say this once and once only:

Pheonix Guard cannot communicate in any way, shape or form, at any time. At all. Period.

Yes, sometimes lore<gameplay, but this is one thing the absolutely cannot change.

(Sorry to make it so large - it just always bugs me to see people who have no clue about HE lore propose the Pheonix Guard, and I'm sick of it!).

[Eltair Shadowblade]

I think Phoenix Guard will be the tank-class

[VeriusCarth]

Phoenix Guard, AT MOST. Will be random NPCs in the game. If they were players, it'd break the game. The whole lore of Phoenix Guard is that they pretty much know the future, and can't speak a word because of it. They make a magic vow, and part of becoming a Phoenix Guard is making said vow, so none of them at all can ever talk. Ever.

Players would have to be able to type, and communicate with other players if they were in groups... but... Phoenix Guard can't do that. As flipping cool as Phoenix Guard may be, they will almost undoubtedly not be in the game as PC classes.