Shaman "Heal Bot"

[Grimmek]

Shamans need to have the ability to be played as a “heal bot”. Then need to be able to throw consistent effective heals with or without nuking first. If they are unable to be played as such then the greenskins are going to have problems.

The shaman is the support class for the greenskins, like it or not the roll of main healer will fall to the shaman.With few effective CC options ( mezz / stun’s / interrupts ) one thing is for sure, your group mates will be taking a lot of damage. And any group that has half a clue what they are doing will focus that damage on one target at a time, killing the target as quickly as possible.

A shaman with 2-3 tanks on him, barring outside intervention, probably has a life expectancy of 3-5 seconds. If the 2nd shaman has to go nuke a few people before he can effectively heal there is little chance he will be able to keep the 1st shaman alive. Chances are both shamans will be dead within the first 10-15 seconds of the fight.

There are a lot of abilities that are going to help people survive/mitigate damage but the bottom line is the group is going to need heals and a lot of them and if the shaman cannot provide that level of healing, start to finish, shamans will not have spots in groups.

I know a lot of people dislike the idea of playing a class who’s main job is healing, rezzing buffing and debuffing, but that is the roll of a support class. If you don’t want to do that, then you don’t want to play a support class, no-one will be grouping a shaman for their dps.

[Tyrannis]

I think you have it ever so sligtly wrong there.

Shamans have been stated to be able to heal WITHOUT nuking first recently. I can't remember where, but it was somewhere, trust me ;). If you mix nukes into the healing inbetween and what-not however, you will be able to heal faster with less cost to AP, and be able to support your group that bit longer. It just depends what situation your in, and what kind of tactics you'll need for it; long term survivability or fast and furious life support.

[Feigro]

They've changed the system. WAAAGH! no longer increases amount healed, it simply decreases things like cast times, and action point costs.

So rather than being required to do damage to heal the most efficiently. A Shaman could effectively cast the good heals without Waaagh. The difference now is, if he spends time and and action points on doing damage, he'll still be able to heal because his time to heal, and the AP for healing, is reduced as he spends those resources (time and AP) on doing damage.

Even without changing the system, a Shaman can always cast a heal, regardless of Waaagh.

[Gemini]

Shamans need to have the ability to be played as a “heal bot”. Then need to be able to throw consistent effective heals with or without nuking first. If they are unable to be played as such then the greenskins are going to have problems.

You're forgetting some here, a very big point in this arguement, and that is all support classes have a mechanic that makes them use offensive in order to support their allies. Every single one.

I know a lot of people dislike the idea of playing a class who’s main job is healing, rezzing buffing and debuffing, but that is the roll of a support class. If you don’t want to do that, then you don’t want to play a support class, no-one will be grouping a shaman for their dps.

Of course not, people will be grouping with a shaman for their support spells, which should be laced with offensive spells to, so that they can be the most effective. And yes, that is the main roll of a support class, but not the only one, in this game. Because it's not just alot of players who don't like healbots, it's also Mythic. And Mythic says no healbots.

[Grimmek]

Not according to the "So I played a shaman today" thread:


The shaman class is nothing close to a medic. We were set up with level 40 players to RvR with, as i charged into combat. The first thing i noticed, was the healing spells took really long, up to 5 seconds long... i was confused, as they did not really heal a great amount, and thats pretty long when someone is getting beaten on. So i decided to start to pew pew with my spells. Doing massive damage, i crushed stunties as they charged at me, using an ability which knocked me and them back if they got too close, to get far away of course. After casting multiple spells and destryoing my foes, my healing spells on the action bar began to grow green... wtf i wondered, so i clicked myself, and started to heal. The heal took pretty much one second. The same heal that previously took 5 seconds, now took 1 second... i was amazed.

After learning this, i charged into combat, pew pewing, and then throwing in a heal when i had enough waagh! it felt so good. It was not like just sitting back and healing, this felt like you were destroying your enemies, and keeping everyone alive effectively, without focusing on it.

What this pretty much meant was, i could do tons of damage, and then throw a quick 1 second heal that would heal a very big chunk of a falling allies life.



Being able to throw the occasional heal and keep people alive may work against random un-corodinated collections of enemies at gamesday. But is isnt going to be enough against highly coordinated grps.

[AlienOverlord]

The difference now is, if he spends time and and action points on doing damage, he'll still be able to heal because his time to heal, and the AP for healing, is reduced as he spends those resources (time and AP) on doing damage.

That read like some Daoist philosophical riddle or something - Makes no sense untiil you ponder it's implcations deeply and then the light of comprehension fills your mind :)

Not according to the "So I played a shaman today" thread

Thanks for the link! Just another example of Mythic remembering that lore needs to take a backseat to gameplay. Technically Waaagghhh! increases magical power according to lore, but having it affect casting time sounds like a very clever way of getting the a playable result.

[Yvo]

You're forgetting some here, a very big point in this arguement, and that is all support classes have a mechanic that makes them use offensive in order to support their allies. Every single one.


And the rune priest's is what exactly?

[Pangscar]

If you are expecting heal bots in this game your going to be disapointed and might want to go back to the other game where heal bots abound. You keep using the word support class but not sure you know what that means. Mythic has a clear vision for support classes that does not entail "healboting" of any kind. So called support classes will be right up in the action and not watching health bars from the back.

[Leontes]

So rather than being required to do damage to heal the most efficiently. A Shaman could effectively cast the good heals without Waaagh. The difference now is, if he spends time and and action points on doing damage, he'll still be able to heal because his time to heal, and the AP for healing, is reduced as he spends those resources (time and AP) on doing damage.

So let's say it takes an un-Waaagh!!!'d Heal 6 seconds to land and cost 200 AP.

Let's also say that a 3 second 100 AP nuke generates enough Waaagh!!! to drop that heal to 3 seconds and 100 AP. Therefore the cost of doing both is the same, but the team has a damage advantage if the Shaman casts damage spells. Understood.

Tank still taking a 6 second heal no matter how you look at it. Every time?

[Feigro]

So let's say it takes an un-Waaagh!!!'d Heal 6 seconds to land and cost 200 AP.

Let's also say that a 3 second 100 AP nuke generates enough Waaagh!!! to drop that heal to 3 seconds and 100 AP. Therefore the cost of doing both is the same, but the team has a damage advantage if the Shaman casts damage spells. Understood.

Tank still taking a 6 second heal no matter how you look at it. Every time?

I wouldn't know personally, as I haven't played a shaman. I'm going to assume there are heals that take a bit, which with Waaagh have their cast time reduces. Then there may be those that are always inherently quick, where waaagh simply reduces their AP cost.

I don't know the specifics of it all. Just the idea of it.

[Auku]

So let's say it takes an un-Waaagh!!!'d Heal 6 seconds to land and cost 200 AP.

Let's also say that a 3 second 100 AP nuke generates enough Waaagh!!! to drop that heal to 3 seconds and 100 AP. Therefore the cost of doing both is the same, but the team has a damage advantage if the Shaman casts damage spells. Understood.

Tank still taking a 6 second heal no matter how you look at it. Every time?

True there is a damage advantage, if you make your shaman pure healing and basicly no damage it is worthless then. If you have pure damage shaman you build WAAAGH up fast and but wont have strong enough heals.

The more WAAAGH you have the less it will cost and faster casting. But in order to answer your question I think I agree that if the shaman is pure damage it will build WAAAGH vey fast and heal very fast.

[Leontes]

If you are expecting heal bots in this game your going to be disapointed and might want to go back to the other game where heal bots abound. You keep using the word support class but not sure you know what that means. Mythic has a clear vision for support classes that does not entail "healboting" of any kind. So called support classes will be right up in the action and not watching health bars from the back.

What do you think healbotting means?

If doing damage is a mechanic that enhances your heals, then the best support classes are going to be the ones who abuse this to the point of becoming the strongest healer they can be. They'll spec their characters in the most influential offensive ways that amplify their healing, then empower the important heals to make the best usage of their time.

They're not classes that deal damage first and then maybe heal as an afterthought. The damage you deal is a means to an end; that end being keeping your party alive with heals.

The ones who approach the class this way will have the most success. Just because you have to melt someone's face before your heals become strong doesn't make you any less a healer.

And to anyone who says healbotting is boring; it's not. You just don't like healing. That's fine, there are other options.

But please don't go into these support classes thinking you're some kind of DPS god. You're the ones who are going to lose RvR for us in the pug sense.

[Leontes]

True there is a damage advantage, if you make your shaman pure healing and basicly no damage it is worthless then. If you have pure damage shaman you build WAAAGH up fast and but wont have strong enough heals.

The more WAAAGH you have the less it will cost and faster casting. But in order to answer your question I think I agree that if the shaman is pure damage it will build WAAAGH vey fast and heal very fast.

Oh no, I wasn't asking a general question, just posing one to Feigro. The original idea was that Shamans didn't have fast enough heals to support a team no matter what they did beforehand.

The basic information we need is whether Waaagh!!! generated is a function of damage dealt, number of spells cast, or a mixture of the two.

If it's damage dealt, damage specced Shamans can up their Waaagh!!! extremely quickly and be somewhat more efficient healers than those who spec purely for healing.

We also don't know if the entire Waaagh!!! meter empties itself on every heal cast, or if there are ways to use only half of it to empower a heal, so on and so forth. It could be that two nukes empower five heals, or something similar.

We really don't know enough about mechanics to decide whether or not the Shaman will be subpar in this category.

[Lorik]

Zealot = Closest thing to a "heal bot" you can be. The harbinger system lets you regain AP when an enemy dies - thus throw up harbinger, heal, get AP back when they die

Shaman = True support - Free heals if you throw 2-3 fireballs, really expensive (but still usable) heals if you don't. Much much more effective to use your fireballs, etc, and then heal - you still regain AP as you cast heals using waagh.

[Yvo]

Healbot is such a stupid derogatory term and its constant use actually gets pretty offensive.

I play support classes exclusively. I get my fun from helping out my friends and allies. I don't need to see big shiny numbers in my face and go OOOO I OWNED THAT GUY. I help my friends do that.

People act like it takes no skill at all to play a support class. When you think about it, you know damn well the dps class that just kicked your in a fight didn't do all the work, he just gets all the credit. But no, you say things like "you're not good you just have healers". Yeah he has healers, he has SUPPORT. It's called TEAMWORK.

The zealot will NOT be a healbot class.

The recent changes to the WAAAGH!!! system should keep shamans on par with zealots and runepriests as far as healing goes, and I'm quite sure a change to the warrior priests fury system isn't going to be very far behind.

[Grimmek]

So called support classes will be right up in the action and not watching health bars from the back.

Have you seen how fast a sham can get destroyed? They are soft and squishy not ment to be frontliners, they have no business being anything thing less than near max casting range away from the fight at any given time.

If support isnt watching the groups health bars who is? Or is letting your group die the new thing.

5-6 second (net?) cast times for heals? that would be pretty much un-workable, for anyone who played daoc, how many mid groups ran with a warlock as the main healer, sure un-interruptable/powerless spreads are great, but the 4 second cast times make them effectively useless in open field combat. To be effective, heals need to be on par with the cast times and values of the nukes and melee abilities they'll be facing.

[Pangscar]

What do you think healbotting means?

Never played WoW? Yeah its the game that pretty much coined the phrase healbot or at least it made it a dirty word. It means doing nothing but standing in the back of the raid and only buffing and healing, you spend more time watching health bars than actualy watching the fight. I play a raiding resto spec'd shaman in WoW and yes it is a healbot, I dont mind because im use to it and I like healing. I say I like it but doesnt mean its fun all the time. Its why I probably more then likely will be playing a DPS class in WAR, although I have faith in Mythic to do the class proparly, I have NO faith in fellow players to allow support classes to be anything more than mindless healbots.

So to summarize: support class =\= healbot. Support clases are fun to play, healbots are not.

[Pangscar]

Have you seen how fast a sham can get destroyed? They are soft and squishy not ment to be frontliners, they have no business being anything thing less than near max casting range away from the fight at any given time.

When I say they will be right up in the action its not to say to be in melee range or w/e, its to mean that they will be involved in the action of the fight and actualy taking part in the fight as oposed to ONLY watching health bars.

[Lorik]

Healbot is such a stupid derogatory term and its constant use actually gets pretty offensive.

I play support classes exclusively. I get my fun from helping out my friends and allies. I don't need to see big shiny numbers in my face and go OOOO I OWNED THAT GUY. I help my friends do that.

People act like it takes no skill at all to play a support class. When you think about it, you know damn well the dps class that just kicked your in a fight didn't do all the work, he just gets all the credit. But no, you say things like "you're not good you just have healers". Yeah he has healers, he has SUPPORT. It's called TEAMWORK.

The zealot will NOT be a healbot class.

The recent changes to the WAAAGH!!! system should keep shamans on par with zealots and runepriests as far as healing goes, and I'm quite sure a change to the warrior priests fury system isn't going to be very far behind.

I couldn't agree with you more.

I played a priest then druid then pally in WoW - and I now can't play that game anymore at all. I fly off the handle when someone says "stfu and heal". From what I've seen though, watching every video and article I can find - is that healers in WAR will be the most fun classes to play - there's at least 3 different things you can be doing at any time.

And without "mana" to worry about, and a constantly replenishing AP bar - you can do whatever the hell you want - cause you can dmg for a second and then heal.

They've fixed the system. Now we just have to balance between the 3 different iterations of "fixed" that they've created.

To say I'm excited is a drastic understatement.

[Leontes]

Healbot is such a stupid derogatory term and its constant use actually gets pretty offensive.

I play support classes exclusively. I get my fun from helping out my friends and allies. I don't need to see big shiny numbers in my face and go OOOO I OWNED THAT GUY. I help my friends do that.

People act like it takes no skill at all to play a support class. When you think about it, you know damn well the dps class that just kicked your in a fight didn't do all the work, he just gets all the credit. But no, you say things like "you're not good you just have healers". Yeah he has healers, he has SUPPORT. It's called TEAMWORK.

Agreed. This is why we only ever survive when we play with friends and teams who really appreciate us.

[Derfel]

Shamans need to have the ability to be played as a “heal bot”. Then need to be able to throw consistent effective heals with or without nuking first. If they are unable to be played as such then the greenskins are going to have problems.

That's based on the huge assumption that combat will be wow like, and require lots of constant healing. Try playing some other games where primary healers are support classes who actually do support groups, as opposed to just standing there and healing people.

If Mythic take away the requirement for that kind of healing, you have no need for healbots.

[Grimmek]

That's based on the huge assumption that combat will be wow like, and require lots of constant healing. Try playing some other games where primary healers are support classes who actually do support groups, as opposed to just standing there and healing people.

If Mythic take away the requirement for that kind of healing, you have no need for healbots.

l-a-w-l See the sig.......... This post has absolutley nothing to do with pve healing. Try reading before posting.



How exactly do you take away the "requirement" for that type of healing? Reduce damage output to the point that you cant kill anyone? Im sure no one will ever figure out that is htey all assist on the same target they will kill that target quicker... That really doesnt make much sense.

[Leontes]

Never played WoW? Yeah its the game that pretty much coined the phrase healbot or at least it made it a dirty word. It means doing nothing but standing in the back of the raid and only buffing and healing, you spend more time watching health bars than actualy watching the fight. I play a raiding resto spec'd shaman in WoW and yes it is a healbot, I dont mind because im use to it and I like healing. I say I like it but doesnt mean its fun all the time. Its why I probably more then likely will be playing a DPS class in WAR, although I have faith in Mythic to do the class proparly, I have NO faith in fellow players to allow support classes to be anything more than mindless healbots.

So to summarize: support class =\= healbot. Support clases are fun to play, healbots are not.

I was a hardcore raider pre-BC, MVPriest in my Naxx guild.

I don't see healbot as a derogatory term. I was extremely good at keeping myself and others alive, and I took great pride in it. I was severely missed when I wasn't in raids.

Also, it was never boring, but that's besides the point. We're not talking about WoW styled raids; we're talking about RvR.

You can't have "mindless healbots" in PvP. You aren't safe to stand there stuttering your biggest heals unmolested while your teammates take down a group of "mobs". The skilled PvP healers are the ones who make the right decisions and protect themselves even more than their allies, because they are generally the first targets in combat. A dead healer doesn't heal.

So that puts the pressure on the player to make even more decisions. In WAR, since damage is a prerequisite for your strongest heals, you are going to need to be even better and smarter about keeping yourself alive in small skirmishes.

The only point I've been trying to make is to those who (in WoW terms) think that playing these classes like Enhancement Shamans or Shadow Priests is going to be perfectly fine, and I said that they will be the ones leading to the death of our faction in RvR.

It is in this sense that I will gladly do whatever it takes to become the strongest "healbot" I can be, as the lifeblood of my allies is of the utmost importance.

[Derfel]

Great response, truely. No I didn't read your sig, I dind't read most of your entire post, considering my problem with your point came in your very first paragraph, which the rest relies on.

If daoc healing was/is like wow's, then I'm glad I didn't play it.

My point still stands, there are other games (and I didn't mention pve, what was that about reading? but let me make it very explicit, I'm talking about both pve and pvp) where there isn't the requirement, or even the ability, for primary healers to stand back and just pop constant heals.

[Grimmek]

You're not required to heal, by all means let your group die and see how long they keep you. My point is I want the ability to keep my crew alive and not watch them die cause I have to throw a nuke or wait for a 5-6 second cast times.

Leontes, hit it right on the head

"You can't have "mindless healbots" in PvP. You aren't safe to stand there stuttering your biggest heals unmolested while your teammates take down a group of "mobs". The skilled PvP healers are the ones who make the right decisions and protect themselves even more than their allies, because they are generally the first targets in combat. A dead healer doesn't heal."

Good pvp healers first and foremost keep thier crew alive, then IF they have some time, then they do some gratuitus(sp?) damage.

[Derfel]

OK, let me try and explain it a bit more clearly....

I played SWG for some time, for a while before they messed the game up, and for a while since.

My main char is currently a lvl 90 Medic, that is, the primary healer class. I quite enjoy pvp in SWG at times, as a medic, I do a fair amount of buffing, I also do some healing, though that takes up relatively little of my actual fighting time.

Medic's are one of the more powerful one-on-one fighters in the game, everyone has at least one heal, but medics can have 3 or 4, so if you take on a medic, expect them to heal a few times in a fight. And they have a pretty nasty aoe dot that they can lay down to seriously affect anyone who gets too close.
In group pvp, those poison clouds have often been the winning move, causing lots of close quarter dmg to groups of opposition players.

My whole point here, is that as a medic, yes I'm keeping half an eye on my groups health, but because the combat works differently, I'm doing a lot more as well.

It used to be even better, before they messed the game up, people could mix and match alsorts of specs. I ended up master pistoleer, master smuggler and part combat medic.
Made me pretty handy with pistols, as well as having some healing capability.

I could do some close range dmg, and either heal myself, or support my group by chucking them a couple heals.

Either way, SWG does not have healbots in any sense of the term, medics do not go down especially quickly, unless REALLY targetted, but if you're groups any good, you will be well avenged. The idea of a healbot was completely alien to me until I played wow, and I am hoping that Mythic will live up to Paul's words of not having, or even needing, healbots.
All it takes is some tweaking of the combat system.

[Ogharod]

First thing that enourages doing damage before healing is Morale.
Next thing is "momentum" or whatever every single class calls it in WAR.

Every class has to build up something in order to get to the big bad skills.
Same thing goes for Morale.

You plain simply won't be faced with super-high dps from the very beginning of a fight and will have time to do something else than powerheal.

And once someone got to his uber powerfull dps burst skill- guess what, it takes up a huge portion of what you built up in order to get there. Again giving you time to do something else.

Mythic aims for 30second fights at the very least afaik, there's plenty of time for thinking when to do what.

[Ryuuku]

City of Heroes had an amazing playstyle for support classes. I'm extremely surprised that no game has mimicked their unique take on it, because I've yet to see a game handle support classes near as well as they did.

[trap and run]

actually i would think that you would eventually be able to "spec" that way at end game or there is a long quest for teaching you that you dont need WAAAGH to heal...maybe

[Gemini]

actually i would think that you would eventually be able to "spec" that way at end game or there is a long quest for teaching you that you dont need WAAAGH to heal...maybe

... No. All support classes have mechanics to do offensce and heal(though some aren't as clear to us as WAAAGH!!! currently), so why on earth would they add a quest to remove it? This is one of the basic principles they've stated from the start, healbots will be gimping their team by using no offense.

[Lust]

City of Heroes had an amazing playstyle for support classes. I'm extremely surprised that no game has mimicked their unique take on it, because I've yet to see a game handle support classes near as well as they did.
But the unique take also made a few sets overpowered compared to others Empaths pretty much own all other sets when it comes to healing and buffs. One thing i wish they did in CoH is implement a talent like system for slotting powers like Freedom Force rather than Enchancement system. Sunce by lv 50 most of our powers in all likely will be 6 slotted reducing playability of your classes..

[Blannor]

its pretty easy to eliminate heal bots from a combat system like folks have said. For those that are having trouble wrapping their heads around it ill give you an example. Note that this is not what mythic is doing, and has some major flaws but it does stop healbotting.

If all a healers heals have a long cool down on them (15+ sec) there simply isnt enough heals you can throw around to take up all your action time in a fight, which means you start doing other things. Obviously you balance this with big heals/less incoming damage or whatever, and obviously this is not a well thought out example but it does stop classes being total heal bots.

Focusing on healing is great, ill be doing it myself. Having nothing at all to do but start another heal as soon as your current one finishes is not.

[Lordslug]

Obviously the fact that shaman can debuff a group to lower their damage snare them with dots and cast debuffs on the enemy that will heal any allies near those enemies wont contribute to being able to survive in battle. We can sit here and argue strats til were blue in the face fact of the matter is we wont know what were capable of nor dealing with til the game is released so popping on here pretending to be some sort of leading authority on whats a "noobish" approach to a class really only reinforces the close minded one roll mentality warhammer is trying to break away from. As stated by them you CAN play your class as a "healbot" but that only gimps your group considering theres a wide array of other attributes you can bring to the table.

[Hiran]

I don't understand why people get so annoyed with the term "healbot". It's no different than using "dps" as a phrase describing the main role of a class.

But, also my opinion on the subject, classes with healing spells should use them. Being that each Army only has one class with healing spells, that class should be doing just that, healing. PvP is about supporting eachother, using class specialties to boost the overall performance. Would anyone as a healer really risk DPS going down just so they can do damage and get the "I'm a true support class" badge? I hope not, or at least I hope you're not on my team.

I'll be playing a healbot class, haven't decided which army yet, seeing as how not all of them are out.

[Lordslug]

I don't understand why people get so annoyed with the term "healbot". It's no different than using "dps" as a phrase describing the main role of a class.

But, also my opinion on the subject, classes with healing spells should use them. Being that each Army only has one class with healing spells, that class should be doing just that, healing. PvP is about supporting eachother, using class specialties to boost the overall performance. Would anyone as a healer really risk DPS going down just so they can do damage and get the "I'm a true support class" badge? I hope not, or at least I hope you're not on my team.

I'll be playing a healbot class, haven't decided which army yet, seeing as how not all of them are out.

Thats just it a shaman is a support class and should play it as such and not stick to one linear role that of being a healbot. As stated you CAN healbot but youre only gimping your group if you dont play the class to its full potential, i have no problems healing but i have every intention on buffing debuffing and nuking as well. Anything for the win and this includes healbotting if that is what the situation calls for.

[Jide]

I don't understand why people get so annoyed with the term "healbot". It's no different than using "dps" as a phrase describing the main role of a class.

Bot = mindless

Calling a healer a healbot is saying their job is mindless. If you were a DPS and you were called a mindless dps, wouldn't you find that alittle insulting?

[Lordslug]

Bot = mindless

Calling a healer a healbot is saying their job is mindless. If you were a DPS and you were called a mindless dps, wouldn't you find that alittle insulting?

its not so much that i find the term insulting its the attitude behind it that irks me, its the mentality that every healing class should be there for the sole purpose to follow them around like a little lap dog and complain about our healing.
sorry but when i have anyone barking orders at me or complaining about the job im doing i leave them to their bandages and move onto someone who is more appreciative.

[Ranti]

its not so much that i find the term insulting its the attitude behind it that irks me, its the mentality that every healing class should be there for the sole purpose to follow them around like a little lap dog and complain about our healing.
sorry but when i have anyone barking orders at me or complaining about the job im doing i leave them to their bandages and move onto someone who is more appreciative.

agreed, furthermore WAR support classes are NOT just healers (healbots) they can buff, debuff, nuke, CC, and all other bits of juicy goodness. Calling someone a healbot in WAR is a insult to their playstyle, it is saying they don't know how to use their class....or at least I hope that is what mythic does, albeit I am concerned about the Runepriest. Zealots, shamans, and WP sound like they are being designed perfectly. Shamans must nuke to heal, WP must nuke in order to heal, buff, and do their best damage techs, and zealots must debuff in order for their buffs to be effective.



and this thread is full of a lot of stupid ideas. Such as if I a healer isn't just healing someone will DIE!!!!......that is because in other games someone could be 3-4 shotted...in the first 3-4 seconds of battle. so you had to constantly shield/heal and be ready. WAR has no stealthy classes, and the highest damage potential is back loaded and requires dps to use Strategy (ZOMG Stategy, not push 1-3 one button macros!!!)


Because damage is backloaded, WAAAGH!!! works perfectly. Start the fight out debuffing, buffing (if they have them), nuking, and CCing your enemies. Then mid fight you can throw heals and use moral abilities as neccesary.

[Perp]

... No. All support classes have mechanics to do offensce and heal(though some aren't as clear to us as WAAAGH!!! currently), so why on earth would they add a quest to remove it? This is one of the basic principles they've stated from the start, healbots will be gimping their team by using no offense.

Because if paid attention to the way classes are being shaped up you'd see that shaman have much higher dps than runepriests and as a "balance" they have to deal with waaaagh powered heals.

[Perp]

its not so much that i find the term insulting its the attitude behind it that irks me, its the mentality that every healing class should be there for the sole purpose to follow them around like a little lap dog and complain about our healing.
sorry but when i have anyone barking orders at me or complaining about the job im doing i leave them to their bandages and move onto someone who is more appreciative.

Just tell them thier dps sucks and they are terrible at using interupts CC ect.

The great thing about playing a support class is that you can always get a group; if your good at it you'll generally be playing with the best people on the server who know your strengths and weaknesses.

[Ryuuku]

agreed, furthermore WAR support classes are NOT just healers (healbots) they can buff, debuff, nuke, CC, and all other bits of juicy goodness.

Well, this really isn't any different then most other games.

Calling someone a healbot in WAR is a insult to their playstyle, it is saying they don't know how to use their class....or at least I hope that is what mythic does, albeit I am concerned about the Runepriest. Zealots, shamans, and WP sound like they are being designed perfectly. Shamans must nuke to heal, WP must nuke in order to heal, buff, and do their best damage techs, and zealots must debuff in order for their buffs to be effective.

No one 'must' do anything to heal. And as far as I can tell, shamans will actually do more overall healing if they spam heals then if they do damage and heal.


and this thread is full of a lot of stupid ideas. Such as if I a healer isn't just healing someone will DIE!!!!......that is because in other games someone could be 3-4 shotted...in the first 3-4 seconds of battle.

In WoW right now it takes forever to kill someone in pvp gear. If you watch people in good gear play each other, the damage to hitpoint ratio is very similar to what we've seen from WAR. Yet, in a 5v5 arena you have to have 1.5 or 2 healers for every 5 man group, and they have to heal consistently. I mean, you can say all you want about how slow damage means slower deaths, but it doesn't change the fact that people will die and they would have survived with heals.

WAR has no stealthy classes, and the highest damage potential is back loaded and requires dps to use Strategy (ZOMG Stategy, not push 1-3 one button macros!!!)

How do you know? You don't. You're making assumptions, the game isn't even out yet.

[Hiran]

Being called a healbot doesn't bother me. I heal ..... so? My main was a dps class, and I dps .... so? It's nothing more than a term, people take that term and use it as derogatory, but it in itself isn't. Now, if I called you a poor healer, or a healbot, then yes, I would agree with you. I call myself a healbot, I call other healers I group with healbots, I refer to healing classes in MMO's as healbots, I am not prejudice to the class roll of being a healbot. I am also not alone in this practice. It's just a word people.

BTW, you're all healbots. (did I just curse you out in nerdspeak?)

How do you know? You don't. You're making assumptions, the game isn't even out yet.

They have said on many occasions WAR will have positional fighters but no stealth.

[Thor123]

I think a lot of people think that you can just sit there and heal and heal and heal. Sure but from what a few people have said your heals will be very long if you don't use offensive attacks to help kill the enemy. Say your heal is 200 AP and heals for 500 but it takes 6 seconds to heal.

So you can sit and wait for the cast or you can do a damage spell that only is 3 seconds long and and coasts 100 AP so now your heal coasts less, and its now only 100 AP and is a 3 second or lower cast. What would you rather do? Sit and heal for the same amount for 200AP or do damage and heal for the same amount faster and for a lower amount?...

Me, I would do whatever it takes to keep my group alive if that is spamming a 1.5 sec heal all the time then so be it (all I did as a holy paladin in WoW and being a hardcore raider). Sit back and heal and do a little dmg while still healing, fine as long as it helped my group. (priest in Guild Wars).

So what I don't get is people say that you can "healbot" and its fine. Well sure it is but you can healbot and help your group out, but it helps more if you do dmg then heal (case for shaman).

I am going to play a runepriest since i have played a healing class in all the MMO's i have played not just WoW but EQ, and Guild Wars (not exactly an MMO but w.e)

As a runepriest you are going to have to be in the front lines up with the tank and DPS since your most powerful runes work only in a small area (like the paladins aura but smaller) This means no sitting back and healing at max range since thats not the way to play the class you sit upfront using your heals and knock backs and such to SUPPORT not just to heal but to heal,buff,de-buff,nuke and support.

Also I am aware that we don't even know how this will work but by the few that have gone and played the game at gamesday and the other events we can say that we have a little idea on how it works but will have to wait for more information on how the support classes will work.

[Ryuuku]

They have said on many occasions WAR will have positional fighters but no stealth.

Was referring to everything besides that.

[Aes]

Shamans are probably going to be the backup situational healers and steady buffing/dps. The Shaman needs waaagh to heal well, whether that be faster cheaper or for more hitpoints. If you're only dpsing then your waaagh isn't going to be used up much by buffing especially if you're in a small group or there's an excess of support classes. The shaman has an ability called "Shroom power" which converts waaagh into action points.

So if you're just dpsing you fill up your waaagh bar, spend a couple points to regain action points, then continue dpsing, which means you'll be able to spend the maximum amount of resource on damage and if you need to heal you have a full bar for some nice heals.

I really don't think the people who really like to heal and do nothing but heal will choose the shaman, because I think that his goal will be to do damage, which by killing people will reduce the amount of healing needed in the first place, and then provide the much needed heal that saves the tank and prevents the enemy from swamping you. Given that he'll have more action points to go around when doing damage and being prepared for those critically needed heals, I think it would be detrimental to go for a pure healing style, or even just doing the bare minimum damage to maximise your healing capability.

Maybe the Zealot or the Dark Elf healer will be able to do that in a fashion, but I suspect that if that becomes possible to do Mythic will tweak the classes so that those who balance their skills and use all their resources will be more effective.

[iusedtoplayWoW]

Shamans are perfectly able to healbot without nuking first. If they nuke first though it will help their heals, which can make it more fun to be a healer, which is why they made it like that.

[Aes]

Well neither of us really know that, it was just my guess. Although I'm sure a heal botting style will get more healing done and probably faster, you have to weigh up the whether healing or damage will satisfy the situation better. I think a lot of people have the mentality that healing surpasses all other skills and that 5 healers and a tank would be an ideal battle group (slight exaggeration), and I think Mythic are going to smash that concept to pieces.

[Gemini]

Shamans are probably going to be the backup situational healers and steady buffing/dps. The Shaman needs waaagh to heal well, whether that be faster cheaper or for more hitpoints. If you're only dpsing then your waaagh isn't going to be used up much by buffing especially if you're in a small group or there's an excess of support classes. The shaman has an ability called "Shroom power" which converts waaagh into action points.

...

Maybe the Zealot or the Dark Elf healer will be able to do that in a fashion, but I suspect that if that becomes possible to do Mythic will tweak the classes so that those who balance their skills and use all their resources will be more effective.


Again, yall need to get that old information out of your brains. Latest information says Mythic threw out the "Heal faster/stronger" thing, and a shaman's heals are fine on their own, but get drastically cheaper even to the point of being free as you build up WAAAGH!!! energy. At the fansite cofrence, they said they wanted all classes of a certain archtype to be equally powerful at doing what they're supposed to do, in this case, support. They really don't want a "main healer" class, and the new direction with WAAAGH!!! and the Zealot's Harbinger/DR combination shows just that.

[Skozat]

Not according to the "So I played a shaman today" thread:




Being able to throw the occasional heal and keep people alive may work against random un-corodinated collections of enemies at gamesday. But is isnt going to be enough against highly coordinated grps.

That post was made 3 months ago, and it is my understanding that they have changed the system since that person made that post.