Any hope for a Beastmaster?

[Fiendish]

Any hope for Beastmasters as ranged DPS class?

I know the big speculation is what pet class will high elves get. I believe the question posed to Mythic was "Will Order get any pet classes?" and the answer was that high elves will.

But since high elves are getting a pet class does that rule out Dark Elves having one as well? I think some are saying "yes" because Greenskins have Squig Herders and maybe thinking that there will only be one for each side.

I am just wondering what Dark Elves will get for their ranged DPS class? I believe the Sorceress will be a ranged support/healer class for the Dark Elves as a dark opposite of the High Elf Mage. If that is the case then what other classes would fit for Dark Elf ranged DPS?

I really only see 3 candidates for ranged DPS

1. Beastmaster
2. Shades
3. Sorceress (if she doesn't get the healer role)

Shades are cool and all but they seem a little blah to me. Essentially they will just be Dark Elf versions of High Elf Shadow Warriors (which seem to have a very strong chance of making the High Elf team)

To me the Beastmaster seems more iconic and more likely to be in an invasion force rather than Shades who tend guard the mountain passes of Naggaroth.

[Lorik]

Not really, as the HE have already been slated for a "pet dps" class :(

So sorry.

Squig hunters currently fill that role.

[Estebar]

If that is the case then what other classes would fit for Dark Elf ranged DPS?

I really only see 3 candidates for ranged DPS

1. Beastmaster
2. Shades
3. Sorceress (if she doesn't get the healer role)
4. Corsairs (if they don't get the melee dps role)

Although currently only armed with dual-handed swords in the 6th edition, Corsairs have also been known to use axes and repeater crossbows in previous editions.

[Thoden Firehammer]

Sorry no hope for Beastmasters HE have the second pet class

[Black Razor]

If that is the case then what other classes would fit for Dark Elf ranged DPS?

I really only see 3 candidates for ranged DPS

1. Beastmaster
2. Shades
3. Sorceress (if she doesn't get the healer role)



Yeah for the reasons stated above .. them saying there will be two pet classes, and the goblins having one and the high elves hinted to another .. theres no chance for the Beastmaster, at least not in release. Who knows .. maybe some day they will expand the races and it may make an appearance.

I can't honestly completely rule ANYTHING out .. but I think in all likely hood the ranged DPS class will be either Shade or Sorceress, and my bet goes to Shade. Theres no reason to give Corsairs or Beastmasters ranged abilities when they have two solid options already existing. Sorceress if she doesn't get the support role of course makes for a good ranged DPS profession, and Shades are the masters of the repeater crossbow .. a wonderful weapon and very iconic of the dark elf race. Plus they have a great sinister roguish feel about them without actually being the classic stealther rogue. Even if they ignored these two I think it would go to Corsairs over beasties forcing them into some kind of counter ranger role with there sea dragon cloaks protecting them while they return fire. Beastmasters don't bring alot to the role, though they could have some kind of ranged hitting pet.. but just duct taping a crossbow to the class would be silly and not make for a good pick (and be way to similar to the squig hunter).

[Fiendish]

So they definitely said there will be two and only two pet classes and one for each side? I never heard that. Anyone have a link to that?

All I heard was from the Q&A

WHA: Does the Alliance of Order have a pet based class?
Mythic: There is a pet based career for the High Elfs.

That doesn't exclude the chance of 2 pet classes for Destruction. Unless there is another quote I missed, I'd like to see it.

As for Corsairs being ranged dps, I don't see that just because they happen to be able to use a crossbow, I believe regular warriors can be given crossbows too. It just doesn't seem true to the Corsair to limit them to ranged DPS.

And I agree Black Razor IF they definitely said 100% that there will only be two and only two pet based classes, one for each side. Then my money is on the Shade because I can't think of a better healer than the Sorceress. (Even though Shades seem like carbon copies of Shadow Warriors and are the least likely to be invading Ulthuan.)

[Lorik]

So they definitely said there will be two and only two pet classes and one for each side? I never heard that. Anyone have a link to that?

All I heard was from the Q&A

WHA: Does the Alliance of Order have a pet based class?
Mythic: There is a pet based career for the High Elfs.

That doesn't exclude the chance of 2 pet classes for Destruction. Unless there is another quote I missed, I'd like to see it.

As for Corsairs being ranged dps, I don't see that just because they happen to be able to use a crossbow, I believe regular warriors can be given crossbows too. It just doesn't seem true to the Corsair to limit them to ranged DPS.

Corsairs wouldn't be ranged DPS - they'd be regular melee dps. And the main reason we have to exclude a secondary pet class on Destruction side is cause they're making a game to be sold to the general public. In general, people (not RPers, or hardcore Warhammer fans, or even people who frequent this forum) will quit the game and not give the company money (the reason they're making the game) if it's not perceived as balanced.

Which is also why the DE healing class also has to be a melee-type healer (I'm sorry to offend) and why the ranged DPS is probably going to be a sorceress.

In defense of the "there won't be melee type healer cause of game lore, etc" - I say this cause, if you're a game designer, and you make an entire new way to view a tried and true piece of the trinity of MMO (tank, dps, healer) then you have to give both sides this.

We see this with Runepriest / Zealot, with Shaman / HE (because the Empire can't have another melee healer, plus it's High elves we're talking about here) - and WarPriest / DE.

This would complete the trinity - the only question is - What kind of melee-healer are the DE going to have - and if that's the case - What kind of melee dps are they going to have as well?

[Fiendish]

And the main reason we have to exclude a secondary pet class on Destruction side is cause they're making a game to be sold to the general public. In general, people (not RPers, or hardcore Warhammer fans, or even people who frequent this forum) will quit the game and not give the company money (the reason they're making the game) if it's not perceived as balanced.

I don't see that logic at all, ranged DPS is ranged DPS. Why would 2 pet classes on one side be unbalanced? Is pet-based ranged DPS superior to nuker-based ranged DPS? Does that mean the Squig Herder (pet based) is superior to a Dwarf Engineer or Bright Wizard because they are more nuker-based? I don't think so. If anything the Squig Herders seem to get there tails kicked hard in all the PvP videos of them I have seen.

[Vikingkingq]

I personally think that the parallels between units is both inevitable and good. It's inevitable in no small part because the High Elf and Dark Elf TT armies are essentially parallel. It's good in the sense that it emphasizes the story arc of the two races as one race split by civil war, the ways in which the civil war has caused the society to fracture.

The Shades and Shadow Elves parallel each other nicely:
- They are both guardians of the forlorn frontier:
Both in the Stonespine Mountains and the the rugged highlands of the Shadowlands, the Shades and the Shadow Warriors contend with a harsh and unforgiving landscape, but do so to protect their people from invasion, the Shades from the Chaos Wastes, the Shadow Warriors from the Nagarothi.
- They are both outsiders in their own societies:
The Shades are a stoic and ascetic people whereas most Druchii are emotional and pleasure-loving; the Shadow Warriors are bitter and vengeful, giving free reign to their anger, whereas most Asur practice rigorous self-control. Moreover, both live in the wilderness in traditional clan societies, whereas their kin are more urban and class-oriented.
- They are both guerrilla warriors;
In any invasion, the Shades and Shadow Warriors are naturally ahead of the front lines, harrying the enemy and working independently of the main army. As ranged and melee fighters who specialize in ambushes and hit-and-run tactics, they are special rivals for one another, bearing a deep hatred in their hearts for their opposing numbers.

[Morag]

We were just talking about this the other day in one of Xurré's epic threads. Obviously, there is still hope for Beastmasters making it in. The question about other pet classes was specifically for Order, so it didn't rule out a second pet class for Destruction. However, many people feel that the High Elf pet class will be the second and final pet class for WAR. Maybe this makes it less likely, maybe not, that's for you to decide I'd say. I think it's fairly difficult guessing what Mythic is going to do, but we'll know soon enough.

[The Masked Prince]

I can't find it,
but someone asked them how many pet classes will be in the game at release?
they answered: 2.

We got the squig herder, and apperently, a pet class for the high elves.

[Xurré]

I’ve heard a number of times now that Mythic has stated that they’re only doing two pet classes, but I’d really like to see a quote of that as I can’t find the statement of them saying so (and wouldn’t know what exactly to look for). The closest I could find was this (http://www.war-resource.com/sa_atlanta.php?PHPSESSID=13b883af1a9a9ef550723db33 d9dfe0f):

S.A.: We've been told that there's another pet class besides the Squig Herder. Something like the Witch Hunter with their hounds?

AG: Considering they're unreleased classes, I can't comment on it. The thing you should look at and think of is Mythic is all about trying to make a fair and parity game. We're not afraid to not do something if we don't need to, so if there's not something that's IP appropriate that works as a pet class, we're not going to force another pet class. But we're also not going to just throw it out and say "oh, we're not going to do one either." I think when they release the Witch Hunter information and the Dark Elf and High Elf information in the next couple months, you'll probably get the more definitive answer there. I think you'll find that a lot of different classes have some pet-like abilities. It's already apparent in the Engineer who has turrets and bombs and triggerable abilities like that. Right now I can't comment on whether there is another controlled pet class.
That doesn’t sound like they’ll only have two pet classes at all; in fact it sounds almost the opposite with the “a lot of different classes have some pet-like abilities”.

Then there’s this (http://www.war-rvr.net/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=53&topic=1266.msg18006;topicseen):

Q: Will the Magus be able to summon Horrors of Tzeentch?
A: No. But will there be other pet classes? Yes.
And this (http://www.only-war.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8989):

Q. Will the Chaos Magus be able to summon Horrors of Tzeentch? WIll we see another pet class other than Squig Herders?
A. Other pet classes in the game? Yes there are. But it's NOT the Magus.
There it talks about other pet classes in plural.




As to the original question… some people say that the high elves getting a pet class means the dark elves won’t, so that would rule out Beastmasters.

But I think it’s important to realize that whatever class the high elf pet class is matched up again, it needs to have abilities to counter that pet class; it needs pet-like abilities at the very least (just as Engineer is paired up against the Squig Herder). And seeing as there is a unit among the dark elves who would make make a lot of sense as a pet class (i.e. the Beastmaster) it would make sense to me to pair that one up against the pet class among the high elves.

Another thing one has to look at is what the other options for the ranged class are. In this case Shade or Sorceress. Sorceress is the only class that makes sense as support, so that removes that class from the option list. Shades would work, would work very, very well in fact, but they’re also pretty much mirrors of the Shadow Warrior (who seems the likely ranged class among the high elves). And while some people have noted that they feel this mirroring is a good thing… I personally it’s absolutely cheap and uninteresting, forgoing to show how the high elves and dark elves are different from each other. In that sense a Beastmaster would perfectly show how dark elves aren’t high elves anymore in that they have no compunction in using beasts to do their bidding (which, on a side note, makes high elves in general very unsuited for a pet class unless they do Mage, but I digress).

Of course, all of that relies on the fact that the pet class among the high elves is the ranged archetype. If that isn’t the case then the arguments on both sides go out of the window for the most part (as the high elf pet class wouldn’t ‘balance’ against the ranged Squig Herder anymore). In that case Beastmasters are still a possibility, but probably far less so.

As it is I wouldn’t quite despair just yet over the Beastmaster not being in (despite that some people seem to be convinced now that they aren’t) as it seems to me that there’s still every possibility that they are.


- Xurré

[Fiendish]

Thanks Xurre. I didn't think I had heard any clear response from a Dev saying only two pet classes in the whole game, either. I can see why people would assume it but I don't think its necessarily fact.

I guess I will keep my fingers crossed, I think a whip wielding Beastmaster driving a frenzied hydra or manticore into battle would be a sweet class. More interesting, to me at least than the Shade.

[The Masked Prince]

I’ve heard a number of times now that Mythic has stated that they’re only doing two pet classes, but I’d really like to see a quote of that as I can’t find the statement of them saying so (and wouldn’t know what exactly to look for).

Well I don't think this is really written somewhere,
someone I know asked them in a gamesday at Paris, and that's what they answered.

[Fiendish]

Well I don't think this is really written somewhere,
someone I know asked them in a gamesday at Paris, and that's what they answered.

The Devs are usually quoted for everything they say, so I would think someone somewhere would have it in an interview, a message board, or a video clip.

[Xurré]

Well I don't think this is really written somewhere,
someone I know asked them in a gamesday at Paris, and that's what they answered.
Well, that’s the thing, isn’t it. Until there’s an exact quote we can look at there’s no proof there as all kinds of things could be going on with that.

For instance, maybe the someone you know asked “how many more pet classes…” or maybe the dev just understood it that way. Maybe something got lost in the translation between your someone and you; perhaps you (or they) just heard what they wanted to hear. Maybe that someone you know is simply lying.

We all know how information degrades as it’s passed from person to person. For example, I might tell a friend “based on all the little bits of information I’ve seen, information directly coming from Mythic, it seems that Witch Elves are in.” That person might then come here and say “Witch elves are in. I’ve heard this from a friend who got it directly from Mythic.”

Since interpretation and memory has the tendency to skew and change information, something that comes through three layers of that isn’t exactly reliable.


- Xurré

[Thoden Firehammer]

Well I don't think this is really written somewhere,
someone I know asked them in a gamesday at Paris, and that's what they answered.

Uh it's in their latest Qand A I'm not going to find it becuase I don't really feel like it but it specifly states that there will only be two pet classes, and we already know that Greenskins have teh first one, and they said in that same Q and A that High elves are getting the second one

[Xurré]

Uh it's in their latest Qand A I'm not going to find it becuase I don't really feel like it but it specifly states that there will only be two pet classes, and we already know that Greenskins have teh first one, and they said in that same Q and A that High elves are getting the second one
Are you sure you're not just confused with mounts?

The only recent quote regarding pet classes that I'm aware of is the following:

Q: Does the Alliance of Order have a pet based class?
A: There is a pet based career for the High Elfs.
This doesn't state at all that there'll only be one other pet class or that dark elves won't get one... all it does is say that the high elves will get a pet based career on the order side.

So again, until I actually see (or hear) a quote that says that there are only two pet classes I remain skeptical.

Maybe you just dreamed it. ;)


- Xurré

[dynamo112]

Well, that’s the thing, isn’t it. Until there’s an exact quote we can look at there’s no proof there as all kinds of things could be going on with that.

For instance, maybe the someone you know asked “how many more pet classes…” or maybe the dev just understood it that way. Maybe something got lost in the translation between your someone and you; perhaps you (or they) just heard what they wanted to hear. Maybe that someone you know is simply lying.

We all know how information degrades as it’s passed from person to person. For example, I might tell a friend “based on all the little bits of information I’ve seen, information directly coming from Mythic, it seems that Witch Elves are in.” That person might then come here and say “Witch elves are in. I’ve heard this from a friend who got it directly from Mythic.”

Since interpretation and memory has the tendency to skew and change information, something that comes through three layers of that isn’t exactly reliable.


- Xurré

I remember playing that in kindergarten...the teacher lined us up and told the first kid a sentence and the last person to get the message had something completly different to say. lol

[Bulwyf]

I would be very surprised if Beastmasters are in now that they confirmed HE would be getting a pet class to balance Squigherders. If they really want balance they can also make the HE have the two female restricted classes that have been hinted at. :p

[Xurré]

I remember playing that in kindergarten...the teacher lined us up and told the first kid a sentence and the last person to get the message had something completly different to say. lol
Exactly. They did something similar when I went to school, only it was telling a story. Being the last person to hear the story it didn't make any sense anymore by the time i got it.


I would be very surprised if Beastmasters are in now that they confirmed HE would be getting a pet class to balance Squigherders.
They've just confirmed that high elves will get a pet class; they haven't confirmed that it is to balance Squig Herders. That's just the way you're interpreting it.

If they really want balance they can also make the HE have the two female restricted classes that have been hinted at. :p
The female-restricted classes (or at least one) have pretty much been confirmed to be for the dark elves (which isn't to say that the high elves won't get one or more either).


- Xurré