Shaman vs Zealot [Archive] - Warhammer Forums

Screwhealz

08-16-2007, 11:39 PM

I have decided that in WAR i want to play a support class, and the two that I am debating between r the shaman and the zealot. Now i like the idea behind the shaman class and dont know too much about the zealot at this point.
What i would like to know is which class do you think will be better for this purpose. From what ive read they seem to both do moderate DPS and good healing, but does one heal or DPS better than the other or are they basically the same class save a few different spells?

BenzeneSucker

08-17-2007, 04:34 AM

From what i can tell the shaman has more rooting and crowd control abilities, as well as the waaaagh mechanic, in which you aqcuire waaaagh through damage spells and spend them using healing abilities making healing abilities quicker to cast. You're probably already aware of this.

As for the zealot there is abit more focus on buffing and debuffing. Rituals now seem to work as area effect debuffs/buffs in and of themselves and to some extent independent of harbingers, judging by the newest video (though i may be mistaken). They have DOTs, HOTs, DD's, things you would expect.

the spells are here http://www.war-resource.com/index.php

Perp

08-17-2007, 05:02 AM

zealot will heal better
shaman will do better direct damage
zealot has almost no crowd control
shaman has good crowd control
zealot has great debuffs
shaman has ok buffs

shaman has waaaagh mechanic to deal with, but some people like is so meh

silex

08-17-2007, 05:57 AM

zealot will heal better
shaman will do better direct damage
zealot has almost no crowd control
shaman has good crowd control
zealot has great debuffs
shaman has ok buffsHow do you know all of that?

Here are some additional spell lists from game conventions and the like:
Zealot Skills (http://warhammerinfo.com/c-zealot.shtml)
Shaman Skills (http://warhammerinfo.com/c-shaman.shtml)

And the spell lists of the two classes in the forums here:
More Zealot Skills (http://warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11968)
More Shaman Skills (http://warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11710)

But to directly answer your question - we don't fully know yet. Anyone that does know would probably be violating the NDA by saying so. And even then, it's very likely to undergo massive changes between now and release. Just between Ohio and Chicago (less than a month) I noticed massive changes to the Zealot spell lists and even the core class mechanic. You'll have to endure the wait and be patient unfortunately.

Aaronthethird

08-17-2007, 06:33 AM

I can pretty much guarantee that they will heal basically the same because Mythic knows if they make one the better healer then the other will have issues getting into a group and such. Anyone who says the Zealot will be a better healer is basing that on the fact that they have no mechanic for healing like the Shaman's Waaagh! This is purely speculative and right now there is not nearly enough information to base this belief on. If you watch the gameplay videos of both the classes it is clear that both heal just fine, and if anything I would say that Waaagh mechanic may be an advantage for skilled players who can learn to balance damage and healing.

What I'm finding as I do research is that they are trying to make all the classes within an archetype (healer, tank, melee dps, ranged dps) fairly equal at their core abilities, using the different classes more for flavor, game mechanics and playstyle. What I mean by this is, within the current healers, if you look at all their ability lists, all of them have direct heals, heals over time, and ressurect spells, the bread and butter of a healer, and I would guess that all of them do these basically the same. Now outside of those abilities, they are all fairly unique with each having its own focus on playstyle. That's kind of the nice thing about what they are doing, is giving you options so if you want to play a healer that fights in melee you can roll Warrior Priest, or if you'd rather sit in the back and do lots of debuffs you can do Zealot, the Shaman is more CC oriented, and the Runepriest seems more into Buffs. Thats a very generalized view, but basically my point is, I wouldn't worry about any of them being better healers, as it seems the designers are pretty aware of how important it is for all the classes within an archetype to be fairly equal at their core abilities; instead focus on what else you want to be doing in addition to that and pick the class that fits those interests.

Dutchshoes

08-17-2007, 08:22 AM

From what I have perceived, the Zealot seems of a more consistent healer, one that keeps people topped off. But, the shaman seems more of an emergency healer that if you are down to 1/4 health, and the shaman has built enough waaaaagh, they could pop off a huge quick heal in a second.

So that being said, the zealot has to DPS/buff/etc. to be able to keep his group alive due to his heals not being as great (as the shaman's).
And the shaman has to DPS in order to gain waaaagh turning into bigger better heals.
That is at least the way it looked to me, so don't hold me to that.

As people have said, it is still too early to really be able to tell how the healing and combat will work out.

Hatemonger

08-17-2007, 09:46 AM

I can pretty much guarantee that they will heal basically the same because Mythic knows if they make one the better healer then the other will have issues getting into a group and such.

No, they will essentially all be able to support the group. That doesn't mean they have to do it 'basically the same', and that definitely isn't the image Mythic has for the classes. They want unique classes fulfilling the same roles. That means healers will be better at some things than others, tanks will be better at some things that other tanks, etc.

ChaosBear

08-17-2007, 10:22 AM

Crazy ol' dude

08-17-2007, 12:16 PM

HEALERS (Two types): Strong versus range damage, weakest versus close combat.

PURE HEALERS (stand to the back like casters):

Rune Priest – Shaman

MELEE HEALERS (gain power by being in the thick of things):

Zealot – Warrior Priest
Wrong

Zealot was not stated as melee healer, was not stated as "pure healer" either (waaagh, career discussion). Althought it was said he stands at the back mainly and that his gameplay can be compared to Runepriest's, not WP's. Just take a look at his spells to be sure on this
Healers are strongest against range MAGIC damage dealers btw :)

As for the Shaman vs Zealot thing...we can't be sure on anything, there's no such thing atm that will prove that Shaman DPS>Zealot DPS etc etc., i'm not flaming you, but really you could just check a few threads which gives a view of _current_ career role&gameplay...i advise you to wait a few months, when most of info on careers will be released and judge then.
You should read careers official description, take a look on screenshots, watch some videos and choose what you like most ;)

zealot will heal better
shaman will do better direct damage
zealot has almost no crowd control
shaman has good crowd control
zealot has great debuffs
shaman has ok buffs.....? and what is this?
remember that there's still A LOT of spells and mechanics unknown to us atm, just read this -> http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showpost.php?p=434671&postcount=35 these are the new abilities "translated" from the new(and only...) zealot RvR video with r20 characters (from the waaagh) and i guess a lot more will be implemented before release, so judging careers by their old spell list + probably outdated gimmicks is...you know...not good ;p
In short -> it's way way to early to write such things

variliar

08-17-2007, 06:37 PM

It is okay to look at the two careers to show their difference. But PLEASE do not start with already comparing the two careers which is better and so on... I am sick of this comparison from WoW. I know that this can not be stopped, some time it will pop up.. But PLEASE not yet. The game is still in beta status.

Ryuuku

08-17-2007, 06:47 PM

I'm actually leaning towards zealot and shaman as well, slightly more towards the shaman just due to the fact that he's a goblin. And man have I wanted to play a goblin character forever. But yeah as others have said, there's no telling right now. Really you're just going to have to wait it out.

dyrinn45

08-17-2007, 08:36 PM

i could have swore that mythic said that zealot's gain power in healing by afflicting people with harbingers.

i dont remember exactly where, but i remember seeing the more people you have hit with the negative harbinger effects the better your healing is.

EDIT: and if you watch the mythic rvr video's then you can see that the shaman when he has good amount of waaaagh! heals for ~600, and in the zealot rvr video you see him heal for ~600(and 1200 1 time).

teKmea

08-18-2007, 02:15 AM

don't forget there are still 2 healer classes coming up
altho it looks like you want to play destruction so it's only 1 for you ^^

Crazy ol' dude

08-18-2007, 03:00 AM

i dont remember exactly where, but i remember seeing the more people you have hit with the negative harbinger effects the better your healing is.

EDIT: and if you watch the mythic rvr video's then you can see that the shaman when he has good amount of waaaagh! heals for ~600, and in the zealot rvr video you see him heal for ~600(and 1200 1 time).
harbinger has nothing to do (atm) with zealots healing power
as for the waaagh - remember that amount of waagh has nothing to do (atm) with shaman's healing power - it only makes his heals costless

ChaosBear

08-18-2007, 03:35 AM

Wrong

Zealot was not stated as melee healer, was not stated as "pure healer" either (waaagh, career discussion). Althought it was said he stands at the back mainly and that his gameplay can be compared to Runepriest's, not WP's. Just take a look at his spells to be sure on this
Healers are strongest against range MAGIC damage dealers btw :)

As for the Shaman vs Zealot thing...we can't be sure on anything, there's no such thing atm that will prove that Shaman DPS>Zealot DPS etc etc., i'm not flaming you, but really you could just check a few threads which gives a view of _current_ career role&gameplay...i advise you to wait a few months, when most of info on careers will be released and judge then.
You should read careers official description, take a look on screenshots, watch some videos and choose what you like most ;)

.....? and what is this?
remember that there's still A LOT of spells and mechanics unknown to us atm, just read this -> http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showpost.php?p=434671&postcount=35 these are the new abilities "translated" from the new(and only...) zealot RvR video with r20 characters (from the waaagh) and i guess a lot more will be implemented before release, so judging careers by their old spell list + probably outdated gimmicks is...you know...not good ;p
In short -> it's way way to early to write such things

I was just quoting Sanya Thomas write up from the Fansite gathering.

Crazy ol' dude

08-18-2007, 04:13 AM

I was just quoting Sanya Thomas write up from the Fansite gathering.I know, and i advise you to watch career discussion and to learn Zealot spells to make sure it is wrong and Zealot is NOT a melee healer (at the moment) ;)

EDIT: at the post below - I know who is she, i watched videos, i read her write up too ;p even tho she was there, she wrote misinformation about Zealot and a bit of support classes in general :p and if someone doesn't believe me - that misinformation can be easily refuted by carefully watching career discussion, taking a look at spells and watching RvR vid :)

Maybe they'll make zealot melee in the future...but he definiately isn't melee now

ChaosBear

08-18-2007, 07:03 AM

I know, and i advise you to watch career discussion and to learn Zealot spells to make sure it is wrong and Zealot is NOT a melee healer (at the moment) ;)

She was actually one of the people IN that video ;-) But never mind. Zealots don't interest me much. Will only start reading up on them just before they turn into my enemies ;)

Auku

08-25-2007, 06:27 PM

For shaman vs zealot, A zealot is a Agressive combat spell caster/healer, A shaman is healer/dps. None will be better, but will be the same.

Reezy

08-25-2007, 07:41 PM

Shaman seem to have more direct damage and direct heals with very few buffs/debuffs while zealots are more of a buff/debuff class with a couple insta-cast hots and dots. Shaman make up for not having many insta-cast spells by having CC and escape options. Zealots make up for not having much CC by being able to give certain party members (and possibly themself) very powerful buffs with the Marks of Chaos. Those marks are in addition to their already powerful HoT buffs.

That's my assumption anyways based on what I've seen. Man I really wish I was in the beta.

maconic

09-17-2007, 03:42 AM

Gemini

09-17-2007, 03:54 PM

Zealot ist ATM a caster that uses Action Points and has: debuffs, buffs, DoTs, HoTs, DD, Direct Heal.

I don't know anything about shaman as I don't play one, but shaman is ATM the most powerfull Chaos Class.

Thank you for telling us stuff we already know, and everyone uses AP. So, your currently playing a Zealot eh? In beta?

Oh, and I'm gonna assume you meant the Zealot is the most powerful Chaos Class.

Auku

09-17-2007, 03:56 PM

minotauro

09-17-2007, 04:21 PM

Auku

09-17-2007, 04:31 PM

zealot is a "close quarter" healer, some people are mis-interpreting that into "melee" healer(warrior priest). zealots use ranged spells(as most of us know), however, the range is less than that of other nukers/healers.

what spells have shorter ranges, i do not know. my guess is the rituals and perhaps harbingers all have short ranges, while the heals will have standard 150ft range.

That's what I also think,

@.................................
#.................................
........$.........................
...........................%....

@#....$................%
Look above,
The @ represents the Chaos Chosen
The # represents the Chaos Marauder
The $ represents the Chaos Zealot
The % represnts the Chaos Magus
Each symbol indicates where the class should be playing at. As you see the zealot is up closer than somthing like the magus.

silex

09-20-2007, 10:11 AM

I really don't intend to come off as mean here, but do you guys have proof to back that up? Based off the videos I've seen and my own play experience at conventions, they seemed to have the same range as everyone else.

I'd love to be proven wrong though, as it would mean there's a Zealot vid out there I haven't seen, hehe.

minotauro

09-20-2007, 02:21 PM

My information comes from the last Podcast, in which Josh Drescher stated zealots and warrior priests were close quarter healers. Because zealots were linked with warrior priests in this statement, lots of people freaked out and thought zealots were melee healers, like warrior priests.

As far as the range of spells being shorter I perhaps read this somewhere on a forum. So how accurate it is I can't honestly say. But it made perfect sense, because we all know(at least we think we know) zealot is NOT a melee healer and it would explain Josh's statement on the podcast.

since you played it at a convention, you didnt notice any spells having shorter ranges than others? the rituals, the harbingers, anything?

silex

09-21-2007, 08:47 AM

No, it seemed to be the same range as everything else. But both conventions were back in July. The spell lists and entire ritual/harbinger mechanic itself has been changed considerably since then. Even the WAAAGH! gameplay videos are pretty old now. So, it certainly could be a short range class like you're talking about.

Hm... I wish they would make another tour through the states to show off the game, so that I could play again, heh. So many questions now that are going unanswered.

Throwhemon

09-21-2007, 10:11 AM

the shaman is a heavy nukeing/helaing class. It relys on its nuking spell to heal better.

the zealot is a AoE debuff class/AoE support healer. It can seriously cripple the enemy while providing moderate healing.

now leaving the healing aside lets compare the two in terms most people will understand (by refering to WoW). The shaman is easy compareable to a mage, no where near as powerful because it is a support class but the style of spells are close, it has mostly single target damaging spells with some nice AoE damage and rooting spells. The zealot ont he other hand is like Warlock (if they didnt have pets, wern't completely OP), they rely on DoTs and debuffs to moderatly damage and cripple the enemy. Add rituals (totems) that can provide a stream of heals and damage enemys in range, plus a bunch of other cool ones that boost you and disable them.

And now for the healing. The shaman is like a cross between a priest and a pally(Pre-BC), they have great single target heals with single target buffs that boost thier targets effectiveness with 1 AoE heal (from what ive heard the shaman's is a cloud they put around an enemy that heals your group members around him) and 1 or two HoTs. The shaman can futher increase his effectiveness by building Waaagh! from damageing enemys, this ethier increases the amount healed or the duration of a spell. Now the zealot is more like a cross between a preist and a shaman (go figure). rituals both buff your friends and debuff your enemys makeing it easyer for you to heal, most of the healing ive seen come from group heals and HoTs.

These are speculations made from information provided to me from War-resource and can change at any moment.

please see the below link, this is the exact same thread.

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16764

Pyke

09-23-2007, 04:56 PM

Healing should have the same range but from what I've read it seems that both the Zealot and the Rune Priest are more effective close combat healers cause some of their better runes and Harbringer have short range on them.

So my guess from what I've read is that if you want to use your Zealot to its fullest you need to be in the thick of things to pull off some of your debuffs. Sure you can stand back and heal but if you don't use the zealots arsenal of spells to your advantage then you seem to have gimped yourself.

So Zealot isn't a Melee healer as alot of people like to state but seems to are "close combat" Healers so nothing like a Warrior Priest but like a Rune Priest that wants his Master Rune to be effictive.