Witch Elves, Female Only?

[Bait]

Unacceptable slap in the face.

[malavhe]

It's from the GW lore. I don't mind it terribly but it's never good to decrease the players options when you don't need too.

At least it's not against the laws of physics like the male only classes of Chaos. ;)

[ravn0s]

I think there would be more backlash if they had male Witch Elves.

[Norick13]

I think it's great! Also, Mythic would have to have been pretty sexist A$$H...s to not include a class that is only female. There are several already that are only male. And yes I realize the lore/GW constraints, and I am not bashing the classes (I personally want to be a chosen)...

But, from my experience with women, my sister and girlfriend, they aren't willing to play male characters like men are willing to play female characters.

Also, on a lighter note--My g/f will probably want to play Witch elf instead of witch hunter...which means I'll be able to play chosen :D

[Arcadox]

A lot of people are concerned about naked elves bouncing and dancing their goodies all around, but with a dance emote I don't think it will be as bad, not to mention that the people who do that kind of stuff would find some way to do it no matter what.

I think the class and mechanics itself are interesting, reminds me of assassin from Diablo2. Very exciting to see the WE in action. Actually, I'm really exciting to see all the 8 classes we haven't seen battle in game duke it out soon.

[Zoatibix]

I was shocked that they restricted WE to female only, tbh.

I guess they couldn't get the look of chainmail speedos quite right ;)

Also, while I think it was right to 'balance' out the gender restriction with female as well as male exclusive classes I'm not sure what giving (so far) all of the restricted classes to destruction will do to the faction balances.

[Ranti]

I think there would be more backlash if they had male Witch Elves.

yeah there is no male followers of khain...no such thing as a baby boy thrown into the cauldron of blood, and many die, and those that rise are chosen of khain...yeah there is nothing like that in the lore.

Oh wait there is, it is called a Assassin and he is the male version of a witch elf. more or less.

I prefer gender restrictions actually, if they unify the class, I actually like the witch elf. I just want to point out the hypocrispy of those self-righteous complainers who raised hell on the forums over the male-only chosen/maurader.

In both those cases above, females are the minority, but they are indeed there in the lore. But by making them male only it brought unity to the classes and their cohesion as their own class, just like doing witch elfs does instead of a Priest of Khain or follower of khain etc kinda of deal. Furthermore, if doing a male/female version of both the Witch elf and chosen would of required making two sets of armor for both classes, which no class deserves (and that also removes some class identity)

My point is though

1) A male version of a witch elf could be done by the lore, the class would of had to be renamed a little, saying there are no Male witch elfs may be true, but the simple fact remains that assassins are also followers of khain, and fill the melee spot, and are male only.

2) Those who say that the female only witch elf is fine, but that female only chosen isn't, are just being sexist hypocrites.

3) Mythic is awesome for making such cool classes that require the sexual dimorphism of the races to be represented.

[Ranti]

I was shocked that they restricted WE to female only, tbh.

I guess they couldn't get the look of chainmail speedos quite right ;)

Also, while I think it was right to 'balance' out the gender restriction with female as well as male exclusive classes I'm not sure what giving (so far) all of the restricted classes to destruction will do to the faction balances.

point 1: A male WE would of required a black assassin look, since that is what a male witch elf is...a assassin, just like a female chosen would of required different armor to even tale that the person underneath was female.

point 2: it may actually tip it into Destructions hands. WE will draw those who like T&A while the Chosen will pull those who love the Death-and-Destruction OMG Look at the armor Evil Knight crowd

[Grimfell Gromgear]

point 2: it may actually tip it into Destructions hands. WE will draw those who like T&A while the Chosen will pull those who love the Death-and-Destruction OMG Look at the armor Evil Knight crowd

Ah ah, lest we forget the Black Guard will pull the Evil Knight crowd as well. And it'll pull the middle ground 'I like evil knights... but I also want to see bouncing breasts and thighs from time to time' group.

[Crazeh]

yeah there is no male followers of khain...

Executioners.

From GW Online:

Executioners follow the path of Khaine in his aspect of executioner, they are adept at delivering single killing blows. In battle the are an excellent shock unit, using their great swords to devastating effect.

[Seldaren]

Oh wait there is, it is called a Assassin and he is the male version of a witch elf. more or less.

Assassins are not male witch elves. They are completely different. They may be "created" via the same means, but they're different.

They look different, they fight differently and generally go about their lives differently than witch elves.

You couldn't have a single career with two completley different ways of playing like that. It's two different classes, restricted by gender.

[Commentaris]

female only? wth? i want my a-sexual fungus witch elf goblin thing

[Axxar]

Anyone who thinks witch elves shouldn't be female only needs to be slapped in the face with a black orc.

[Xurré]

My point is though

1) A male version of a witch elf could be done by the lore, the class would of had to be renamed a little, saying there are no Male witch elfs may be true, but the simple fact remains that assassins are also followers of khain, and fill the melee spot, and are male only.
I think I've already gone over the problems with the "Devotee of Khaine" class at length before.

2) Those who say that the female only witch elf is fine, but that female only chosen isn't, are just being sexist hypocrites.
I think female only chosen would be fine too. ;)

j/k

And I'm not going to explain the lore differences between female Chosen and male Witch Elves again, that has been done (by lots and lots of people) often enough already.


Anyone who thinks witch elves shouldn't be female only needs to be slapped in the face with a black orc.
<nods> Agreed. Though I've got a few other things than a Black Orc in mind for the slapping.


- Xurré

[Bait]

Executioners.

From GW Online: Executioners follow the path of Khaine in his aspect of executioner, they are adept at delivering single killing blows. In battle the are an excellent shock unit, using their great swords to devastating effect.

That would probably be a little hard to balance :P

[AlienOverlord]

I think we can expect one more female-only class. I suspect Mythic looked at elves and said, we have two female only classes, so we should have two male only classes.
At least it's not against the laws of physics like the male only classes of Chaos. ;)Let's not bring up physics in a fantasy game. Wearing a bikini into a battle with archers doesn't go against physics, but it does go against probabilities of survival.
I just want to point out the hypocrispy of those self-righteous complainers who raised hell on the forums over the male-only chosen/maurader.
As one of those 'self-rightous complainers' you mention I would like to point out that for myself at least the problem was not the choice, but Mythic's reasoning given for their choice. Artistic limitations? Look at what those Mythic people can do! They could have met the challenge. Lore? Female-only Dark Elves make sense for the lore. Female dwarfs don't. But Mythic used the Lore as a reason for the Marauder.
These are not consistent. But the recent Fansite Q&A session finally gave a reason that is consistent. It's consistent with the old 'WAR is Batman' adage :)

This is Mythic's version of the Warhammer universe. Not the TT version, not the RPG version. And they decided they wanted female Dwarfs. And male-only Chosen and Marauders. And female only Witch Elves.

It's like joining a D&D campaign and the GM has some personal changes, like clerics of only one pantheon, or no elves or whatever. If the GM is good enough, you'll accept the changes as what makes his campaign unique.

Mythic is picking and choosing what they want to see in their version of Warhammer. It's not about lore, they've shown they bend that at will (as far as GW lets them). It's about what Mythic/Mark Jacobs wants to see and they'll stand by those choices.

That's consistent with what I've come to expect from Mythic.

[abr4]

I totally agree, I was so looking forward to playing a male witch elf.

[Bait]

Quick! Edit out the /kidding! Nothing better someone with the name "Bait" trolling about female only Witch Elves.

I have no clue what you are talking about *whistle*

[BallsOfSteel]

Are you guys serious??? You were actually surprised that Witch Elves are female only!?
WTF is wrong with you?! Of course Witch Elves are female only! When's the last time you purchased a Witch Elf boxed set, and pulled out a DUDE in a bikini!? God damn.

Stop complaining about the choices Mythic makes. All of you whining that you want to see dudes in bikinis just to satisfy your need for a Rogue from WoW need to stfu gtfo diaf kk thx bai. Seriously, go play a Witch Hunter.

[Bulwyf]

Are you guys serious??? You were actually surprised that Witch Elves are female only!?
WTF is wrong with you?! Of course Witch Elves are female only! When's the last time you purchased a Witch Elf boxed set, and pulled out a DUDE in a bikini!? God damn.

Stop complaining about the choices Mythic makes. All of you whining that you want to see dudes in bikinis just to satisfy your need for a Rogue from WoW need to stfu gtfo diaf kk thx bai. Seriously, go play a Witch Hunter.

All of the mature responses in this thread were in dire need of a post like this.

[zoa]

All of the mature responses in this thread were in dire need of a post like this.

Yea, he did a great job of it ;)

[WarMachine]

WOHOO More fuel for the fire!


MORE FLAMES FOR THE FLAME GOD!!!

[Bait]

Are you guys serious??? You were actually surprised that Witch Elves are female only!?
WTF is wrong with you?! Of course Witch Elves are female only! When's the last time you purchased a Witch Elf boxed set, and pulled out a DUDE in a bikini!? God damn.

Stop complaining about the choices Mythic makes. All of you whining that you want to see dudes in bikinis just to satisfy your need for a Rogue from WoW need to stfu gtfo diaf kk thx bai. Seriously, go play a Witch Hunter.

NO U, DIAF

[checkthis5000]

Well Xurre can breathe a sigh of relief. And of course cancel her plans of sacrificing EA Mythic HQ to Khaine. :p

Good stuff. Can't wait to see them in action. Awesome choice. :)

EDIT: Please not talk about what is/isn't against the laws of physics. I just sat through Electromagnetism and Plasma Physics, and I have Quantum Mechanics tomorrow.

I'd rather not bring physics onto a MMO-based forum. I mean unless we're talking about things getting blown up. Then it's ok. :p

[Ranti]

Lets just hope no one wanted to play an assassin or an executioner

because they won't be playable

Unacceptable sexism by mythic

[zenarion]

Unacceptable sexism would be elves with huge . Since no GW artwork has them with huge . And adding them to this game would be to draw in 13-year-old boys and for the designers to have fun while making the elves.

[Xurré]

Well Xurre can breathe a sigh of relief. And of course cancel her plans of sacrificing EA Mythic HQ to Khaine. :p
Ah yes, that reminds me. <makes note to self> 'cancel shipment of poisoned gingerbread cookies.'

;)


- Xurré

[Blaze]

Oh man, this thread made me laugh. Honestly, I giggled.

A class that is by definition female is female? The Brides of Khaine are female only? Really? Cus I totally though Khaine swings both way, with him beeing an elf god and all. You know what I'm talkin bout *nudge nudge* ;)

The Brides of Khaine...
Khaines Toyboys? I would totally totally roll that!

The title of this thread is silly. No sane person would object to Witch Elves beeing female only. You can object to them beeing chosen to be the dps class but to suggest there could be male ones... sheesh

[Thoden Firehammer]

Ah yes, that reminds me. <makes note to self> 'cancel shipment of poisoned gingerbread cookies.'

;)


- Xurré

That's all you had planed?!

I would have atleast sent in 10 kegs filled with Angry Dwarfs and that would bring the building down.

I mean they broke Dwarf lore.... they are in the book of Grudges.

Also the Dwarf idea isn't bad...

[zoa]

That's all you had planed?!

I would have atleast sent in 10 kegs filled with Angry Dwarfs and that would bring the building down.

I mean they broke Dwarf lore.... they are in the book of Grudges.

Also the Dwarf idea isn't bad...

Or you could send 1 Dark Elf and they could equal or surpass what the 10 kegs of angry dwarfs did... DUN DUN DUN :P

[Bait]

Oh man, this thread made me laugh. Honestly, I giggled.

A class that is by definition female is female? The Brides of Khaine are female only? Really? Cus I totally though Khaine swings both way, with him beeing an elf god and all. You know what I'm talkin bout *nudge nudge* ;)

The Brides of Khorne...
sheesh

They could easily be males, and it could be 'The Civil Partners of Khorne'...

[checkthis5000]

Lets just hope no one wanted to play an assassin or an executioner

because they won't be playable

Unacceptable sexism by mythic

Wow I hope this and a lot of other posts are pure sarcasm. This thread has me cracking up. Those . How dare they make a Female only character female only. :p

[Megad00mer]

Male Witch Elves I say! Lore be damned. Mythic is Sexist!

And Purple Orcs! Green only is severely limiting. What about the colors other than green? My god, how could they!

And beardless male Dwarfs. Geezus all that hair must chaff. Not everyone likes facial hair. Damn mythic's bearded Dwarf agenda!

And lets have High Elves shoot machine guns, and give Goblins lightsabers and lets have Witch Hunters have those flashy memory eraser things like men in black and make dragons a playable race!!

*clears throat*

Witch Elves are female only. They've always been female only. They always will be female only. Mythic and GW will not be altering 25 years of lore because you wanna play a 1337 rogue but are too insecure in your manhood to roll a female character.

Suck it up

Move on

[Bait]

And beardless male Dwarfs. Geezus all that hair must chaff. Not everyone likes facial hair. Damn mythic's bearded Dwarf agenda!

You joke, but I wanted to make a Dwarf... but since I suffer from Trichopathophobia this isn't an option for me :(

[Thoden Firehammer]

You joke, but I wanted to make a Dwarf... but since I suffer from Trichopathophobia this isn't an option for me :(


You've got to be kidding me, a fear of hair(not you I am just stuned there is such a word)
.....

[Bait]

You've got to be kidding me, a fear of hair(not you I am just stuned there is such a word)
.....

http://psychology.about.com/od/phobias/a/phobialist.htm

There are some odd phobias...

[Xurré]

That's all you had planed?!
Of course not, but it was the only thing that was already underway (you know how slow the postal service can be at times).

Oh, note to Mythic... if you receive a shipment of gingerbread cookies you might want to consider not eating them. Unless crunchtime really is getting to you.


And Purple Orcs! Green only is severely limiting. What about the colors other than green? My god, how could they!
Is that like pink elephants? Like,t hat's what dwarfs see when they drink too much? (Yes, a very, very, very rare occurrence on par with a coin toss landing on it's edge and staying perfectly balanced one hundred times in a row).


- Xurré

[Sinfjotle]

I'm totally ready to forgive Mythic about Chosen and Marauder because of the Black Guard.

But if they make the Black Guard male only, heads will roll!

[Tiervexx]

They could easily be males, and it could be 'The Civil Partners of Khorne'...

You just became one of my favorit people.

[Campa]

Excellent choice for a class and excellent that they make them female only.

Witch Elves are probably THE most prominent and distinctive Dark Elf unit next to Cold One Knights maybe.

[Ralzar]

if they make the Black Guard male only

*shudders*

[abr4]

http://psychology.about.com/od/phobias/a/phobialist.htm

There are some odd phobias...

Phobophobia - Fear of phobias.

Man if you got that one, you're screwed.

[Bait]

Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia - (Fear of long words) would be much worse.

[SinnersDoom]

Yeahhh Mythic. I for one applaud them. I have always shied away from playing female characters because it makes me feel kinda fruity. Never bought the whole I like to look at a female characters butt argument. Kinda laughed at the online transvestites (as I call them). But I am definitely gonna roll a Witch Elf. A homicidal, drugged up, backstabbing, psycopath. I'm in! Finally a realistic female character. Assassins aren't the same thing. Quit whining just because you didn't get the class you wanted. They aren't making the game for you specifically. Hell I didn't get my Slayer.

P.S. Lol !! Boy Toys of Khaine.

P.S.S. Can't wait till you see the Dark Elf magic user (if you don't know the lore (OP) male elves aren't allowed to use magic.)

[Blaze]

Jesus I just realised I accidentally wrote Khorne in my previous post when I meant Khaine.

I deserve to be flogged by a Witch Elf!

Amazing that noone corrected me...

[Gizmogirl]

I think it's great! Also, Mythic would have to have been pretty sexist A$$H...s to not include a class that is only female. There are several already that are only male. And yes I realize the lore/GW constraints, and I am not bashing the classes (I personally want to be a chosen)...

But, from my experience with women, my sister and girlfriend, they aren't willing to play male characters like men are willing to play female characters.

Also, on a lighter note--My g/f will probably want to play Witch elf instead of witch hunter...which means I'll be able to play chosen :D


It would have been sexist for them to have male witch elves? Imo it's sexist that the large tanks and huge muscular classes are male-exclusive, but the female exclusive class is the mostly naked, slim, T&A class.

Now, the only female characters on destruction will be dark elves. The majority of dark elves will probably be witch elves, judging by the publics obsession with rogue-like classes. Not only will there be huge numbers of witch elves, but they will also all be female, all be scantly clad, and most of them will be played by men.

As a female gamer I have always played the "bad" side in games. I have always hated the "prettiness" of the good side and the fact that most people go for female toons on the side with the pretty elves. I was looking forward to some gross evil looking dark elves to play, not some fanboy's T&A night-elf-meets-sexy-evil-elf fantasy. I'm aware that it fits lore, but there are many things that mythic could have done to prevent destruction from being an army of cool looking male giants with hundreds of chain-mail-bikini-clad elves jumping up and down in hopes that the boobs jiggle ingame.

Sorry for the rant, order is just looking more and more appealing these days and I had hoped for a lot more choices in destruction without having to roll a male character, which I'm not against doing.

/endrant

[DaddysGirl]

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[Blaze]

It would have been sexist for them to have male witch elves? Imo it's sexist that the large tanks and huge muscular classes are male-exclusive, but the female exclusive class is the mostly naked, slim, T&A class.

Now, the only female characters on destruction will be dark elves. The majority of dark elves will probably be witch elves, judging by the publics obsession with rogue-like classes. Not only will there be huge numbers of witch elves, but they will also all be female, all be scantly clad, and most of them will be played by men.

As a female gamer I have always played the "bad" side in games. I have always hated the "prettiness" of the good side and the fact that most people go for female toons on the side with the pretty elves. I was looking forward to some gross evil looking dark elves to play, not some fanboy's T&A night-elf-meets-sexy-evil-elf fantasy. I'm aware that it fits lore, but there are many things that mythic could have done to prevent destruction from being an army of cool looking male giants with hundreds of chain-mail-bikini-clad elves jumping up and down in hopes that the boobs jiggle ingame.

Sorry for the rant, order is just looking more and more appealing these days and I had hoped for a lot more choices in destruction without having to roll a male character, which I'm not against doing.

/endrant

Well I doubt they even considered including gross looking dark elves. But they all are evil looking.

Female Black Guards will almost certanly look as awesome and evil as the male ones.
If shades are included you might get a freaky looking female ranged dps. They are master hunters and scouts but also savage cannibals after all.

The gender restricted chaos careers were a bad move IMO. But I still think there will be options for players like you on Destruction side, just not as many as there should be unfortunately.

[Skage]

I think there would be more backlash if they had male Witch Elves.

Ooo...bad image.

On Destruction, we have more than one career which is male-only, so it's only fair that the Witch Elves are female-only. Plus, I don't think they look half bad :) Was thinking about playing one.

[Bulwyf]

Ooo...bad image.

On Destruction, we have more than one career which is male-only, so it's only fair that the Witch Elves are female-only. Plus, I don't think they look half bad :) Was thinking about playing one.

How is that fair? If one side of a two side game has two gender restricted classes would it not be fair to make the OTHER SIDE have two gender restricted classes of the opposite sex?

[Blaze]

I have to actually agree with Bulwyf here. Having Witch Elves because Chaos had 2 male careers is just... dumb.

However having WE because they are totally freaking awesome is a good idea. So I fully support Mythics decision to include them.

[abr4]

Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia - (Fear of long words) would be much worse.

I disagree. While such a patient may never be told the greek name for his illness, someone whos afraid of phobias will live in constant fear of the fear of his own fear ^^

[Skage]

How is that fair? If one side of a two side game has two gender restricted classes would it not be fair to make the OTHER SIDE have two gender restricted classes of the opposite sex?

No, because that would be basically making a clone of the sex-restricted careers we have. Besides, what's the huge deal anyway?

The major difference you get by playing a female character is that you don't have to look at a dude's until Rank 40. :)

[Axxar]

It's not about being fair, it's about not being an asshat about the setting.

[Hiran]

I think the largest reason for fighting so strongly for marauders and chosen was because Green Skins had no females at all (which I agree with). However, its been said and said again that there were *some* chosen and marauder women, which that being said should have opened up the classes to both genders imo.

[Bulwyf]

No, because that would be basically making a clone of the sex-restricted careers we have. Besides, what's the huge deal anyway?

The major difference you get by playing a female character is that you don't have to look at a dude's until Rank 40. :)

Ah, I was waiting for someone to prove my point about WE only being in for T&A reasons.

As to your first point, who said they had to make them a clone? High Elves have Maidenguard and they could have added the Sisters of Sigmar instead of Warrior Priest if they wanted for Empire.

[Skage]

Ah, I was waiting for someone to prove my point about WE only being in for T&A reasons.

As to your first point, who said they had to make them a clone? High Elves have Maidenguard and they could have added the Sisters of Sigmar instead of Warrior Priest if they wanted for Empire.

They don't, I'm just making an assumption.

[havik110]

I have to actually agree with Bulwyf here. Having Witch Elves because Chaos had 2 male careers is just... dumb.

However having WE because they are totally freaking awesome is a good idea. So I fully support Mythics decision to include them.

Quote of the day. Witch elves are totally freaking awesome. Speaking from 40k, wyches are the point for point best melee unit in the game, followed by harlees and genestealers.

If people dont want to be restricted play on order. If you want to play Male dark elf melee dps, go cry in the corner some more. Honestly the classes were announced. You may not like them but mythic obviously does, otherwise the witch elf wouldnt have been the character with in game models and animations. If you are worried (and i mean truly worried) about T&A in a game then you have issues.

I however have a problem now. While I generally wanted to (and still do ) play a wych elf and a chosen as an alt, I am now fighting the urge to play Blackguard as my main. That armor is too freaking cool and tanking with a halberd is an idea I want to see. If they dont stick us with a sword and board in the end it will be interesting.

[Grrblt]

Sure, sure, they can only be female. But I think the real question here is: can they use axes?

[Gizmogirl]

Ah, I was waiting for someone to prove my point about WE only being in for T&A reasons.

As to your first point, who said they had to make them a clone? High Elves have Maidenguard and they could have added the Sisters of Sigmar instead of Warrior Priest if they wanted for Empire.

I cannot begin to count the times I have heard the "I'd rather look at a female's back end" argument. I am so sick of hearing it, but I suppose maybe that's all some people want from a main character and I can't really judge them for it. I consider characters to be an extension of myself, so I typically make female characters.

[Thoden Firehammer]

I cannot begin to count the times I have heard the "I'd rather look at a female's back end" argument. I am so sick of hearing it, but I suppose maybe that's all some people want from a main character and I can't really judge them for it. I consider characters to be an extension of myself, so I typically make female characters.


See and that's why I can't play a female character, I feel as though my character is an extension of myself, as odd as somepeople might say it is.

[Xurré]

I cannot begin to count the times I have heard the "I'd rather look at a female's back end" argument. I am so sick of hearing it, but I suppose maybe that's all some people want from a main character and I can't really judge them for it. I consider characters to be an extension of myself, so I typically make female characters.
Different people play different things for different reasons. If you don't get that then perhaps it's advisable to reconsider playing a multiplayer game (though I'm sure you do get it).

Some people play characters as an extension of themselves, others play something they find enjoyable to look at, yet others play whatever is the most 'effective', and yet others play what they feel has the most interesting background. There's probably a score more reasons and, I think, that for most people it's a combination of factors (at least three of those I mentioned go for me to some degree or other).

Personally I'm getting sick of hearing that simply because something is sexy it's somehow wrong. I like that Witch Elves are sexy, that's one of the things that attracts me to them (and far from the only thing). Will it attract people who play the class purely for "T&A"? Yes, of course. But I don't really see why that's wrong. Some people will play the Black Guard because they feel that's the most effective tank (maybe, too soon to tell) which I personally find the least important factor. Doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with it.

If, for some odd reason, you have a problem with why other people play a class then perhaps it's an idea to play high elves (or any Order class really) so that you can kill them. And that's the beauty of this game.


- Xurré

[Kellaris]

I cannot begin to count the times I have heard the "I'd rather look at a female's back end" argument. I am so sick of hearing it, but I suppose maybe that's all some people want from a main character and I can't really judge them for it. I consider characters to be an extension of myself, so I typically make female characters.

Agreed. With the exception of me being male and rolling male characters. ;)
Also, I prefer to look at girls from the front side;).
Maybe this is strange.............

[Dasquigman]

Unacceptable slap in the face.
well if you think about it there are a lot of male only classes so I gess they are trying to even the playing fields.

[Kellaris]

Personally I'm getting sick of hearing that simply because something is sexy it's somehow wrong. I like that Witch Elves are sexy, that's one of the things that attracts me to them (and far from the only thing). Will it attract people who play the class purely for "T&A"? Yes, of course. But I don't really see why that's wrong. Some people will play the Black Guard because they feel that's the most effective tank (maybe, too soon to tell) which I personally find the least important factor. Doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with it.
- Xurré


WE are cool and sexy. And cool.
I can live with the fact that I cannot roll Melee DPS class, becouse BG is also awesome.
It's a bit pain for me, that WE occupy "roguelike slot", becouse i have had hope for some rogue in expansion (sorry for off-topic).
But there is one small problem with WE T&A aspect.
So far She is ONLY one sexy character in this game.
For some people, sexy avatar is important. OK, i have no problem with that. But there is a lot of theese people. An they have only one choice, an this means no choice at all.
They will all roll WE.

And massive WE overpopulation is something i do not like. Even considering that they look so cool.

[Newber]

Black Guards should be bad- enough to rule out any need for a male DPS class.

Swordmasters are "tanks", but they seem to have a lot of melee abilities.

I'm hoping Black Guards will have a similar playing style to Swordmasters. Druchii(spelled that right?) don't really seem the type to just stand there and take a beating.

This is, in fact, my hope for all tanks. It seems they can all use two handers of some sort. I'm interested in seeing how they can pull tanking off without the extra defense a shield offers.

[abr4]

I think it's hillarious how many people take a serious approach to this discussion ^^

[Skage]

I cannot begin to count the times I have heard the "I'd rather look at a female's back end" argument. I am so sick of hearing it, but I suppose maybe that's all some people want from a main character and I can't really judge them for it. I consider characters to be an extension of myself, so I typically make female characters.

See now for me...I think of my character as a tool for casting destruction to other people's characters. Making them feel worthless - domination! So I could care less what my character looks like, as long as he's not fruity. Luckily, when you have a female character, it's not often you find yourself thinking "wow, that looks fruity."

The whole, "I get to look at her all day" is a plus, I guess.

[Blaze]

I think it's hillarious how many people take a serious approach to this discussion ^^

I agree. But it's fun to watch.

[kharnage]

I cannot begin to count the times I have heard the "I'd rather look at a female's back end" argument. I am so sick of hearing it, but I suppose maybe that's all some people want from a main character and I can't really judge them for it. I consider characters to be an extension of myself, so I typically make female characters.

I don't play female characters. There are plenty of other avenues to look at butt (Porn, Real Thing, etc) I don't need it in my character. But everyone is different.

[Kazek Ironfist]

Personally I don't mind, they are supposed to be only female. If they would incorporate it, then I'd rather have them incorporate it the right way, by following the lore.

[R-A-B]

There is absolutely no argument for a male class of witch elves. End of.
Chosen and Marauder should have female choices.
Dwarfs should not.

[Thoden Firehammer]

There is absolutely no argument for a male class of witch elves. End of.
Chosen and Marauder should have female choices.
Dwarfs should not.

Agreed ...

[Aviator]

I cannot begin to count the times I have heard the "I'd rather look at a female's back end" argument. I am so sick of hearing it, but I suppose maybe that's all some people want from a main character and I can't really judge them for it. I consider characters to be an extension of myself, so I typically make female characters.

I've always hated that argument too, I'm admittedly a male who only plays female characters. I don't do it for the T&A factor though, I just like the concept of powerful, -kicking women who can fight just as well as the boys. The T&A factor is actually somewhat of a turn off for me, I'll probably never play a WE for that reason. For example, the regal and classy appearance of Female Warrior Priests (http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/images/screenshots/0307_SS_020.jpg) is far more attractive to me than chain-mail bikinis.

[Warsaw]

Well... I ask my self a question befor every post to flame or not to flame. I'm totally serious. I love flaming people! But anyway... Witch Elves? Females? Please give me a link showing me some forms of male witch elves and I will say sure have them. I havn't played Warhammer for 2 years and when I did never really new anything about the DE lore. Not a lot anyway. So just saying that it's sexist or dumb isn't really an argument and that is pretty much the argument here.

Also, why cant a guy play a girl character if he looks looking at her butt? I don't get why it matters why someone plays a character to anyone but the person him/her self.

This is kind of like the Orc argument in how people don't really make any argument for what they say against something. Orcs are soppose to be super muscle mass creatures all bent on fighting right? Now. Lets use some logic. If they did have female OR male orcs which they don't because they are a-sexual... well if they had a female orc wouldnt they be bulky too? I meen super bulky because of the countless war and battle they rage even amongst them selves? Have you seen body builders? The guys that are ripped? Have you seen female body builders who are ripped? Notice how they have practicly have no breasts? They look pretty much the same except they are ussually smaller because the anatomy difference between male and females. So, maybe all orcs take on a female anatomy? Who is to know. Even tho they are a sexual and it is pretty much retarded saying I can't play a female orc because you also can't play a male orc and if you did play a female orc having a skiny, breasted orc would totally go against the whole super muscle andrenline always killing each other and others backround. The whole lore says even a female orc would be totally ripped because of the ammount of fighting and adreniline and crap. See, you can't play a male or female orc. Do you see my point of how using logic and using some level of lore can make a very good point on wether a character should be female or male or why is dosn't even matter because it's an a-sexual race? You probably don't.

Anyway what I'm trying to say if, if you use some logic, do some research on some lore. Do something besides just complaining for once! I'm sure you could make a valid point. The only real reason I posted this is well.... You people are really starting to piss me off.

Now for the line of all lines

IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT DON'T PLAY IT!

This next point is kind of funny. I just did a wikipedia and I found this on witch elves..

"The most savage sect of Khaine worshippers are known as the Brides of Khaine, more commonly called Witch Elves (or Maibd in the Dark Elf language). They are an all-female cult of warrior priestesses."

Holy crap... female only? Following the lore? That is just craaaazy! That took me 5 seconds to do. If anyone else spent that time on researching an argument I'm sure everyones IQ would be a lot higher... O well.

Hey, using quotes and stuff to back up your argument like I did helps too.

[Skage]

There is absolutely no argument for a male class of witch elves. End of.
Chosen and Marauder should have female choices.
Dwarfs should not.

I have trouble seeing a female Marauder. Not so much a Chosen, but I think Mythic made a fine decision to make them male-only. Female players will be complimented with their own sex-restricted careers too, so it doesn't matter.

I think the solution to this whole crisis is people need to consider ceasing their cryfest. So what if the Chosen or Witch Elf is sex-restricted? It's merely your character in-game...your tool, for killing other players. Nothing else. It's not your representation of yourself in-game (which would look and act pathetic, most likely), it's not your SOUL in-game ... just a character. Like reading a book! Do you stop reading a book because you feel the protagonist is impossible to connect or relate with because of his or her gender?

Regardless you people are putting too much thought into it. It's just a gender. I've known many chicks in-game who have played male characters without crying about it, and I've known many males (including me) who have played females without sobbing.

Mythic made a fine choice, and I eagerly await the last two classes of the High and Dark Elf armies.

[Thoden Firehammer]

Skage, since when did you become god? You have no right to judge people on how they make or play their characters.

It may be just a character, but they are also known by another name, Avatar which by definiton is and extention of the user, many people who play these games, want their character to represent them either physicaly or mentaly.

I myself whish to play Dwarfs first off due to the fact that I like them, but also becuase their fantasy culture is derived from many Northern european cultures, and not only do thoes cultures interest me, I am also by heritage connected to many of these cultures.

It maybe just a character Skage, but it is YOUR character.

[Warsaw]

Well.. if people really want to play that much of an exstension of them selves shouldnt they be playing Empire?

[Thoden Firehammer]

Well.. if people really want to play that much of an exstension of them selves shouldnt they be playing Empire?

Read my post again and then ask yourself that.

[Warsaw]

So your dwarf?

[BlackRose]

Skage, since when did you become god? You have no right to judge people on how they make or play their characters.

It may be just a character, but they are also known by another name, Avatar which by definiton is and extention of the user, many people who play these games, want their character to represent them either physicaly or mentaly.

I myself whish to play Dwarfs first off due to the fact that I like them, but also becuase their fantasy culture is derived from many Northern european cultures, and not only do thoes cultures interest me, I am also by heritage connected to many of these cultures.

It maybe just a character Skage, but it is YOUR character.

Hmm I never thought that much into it, then again I could relate to the the thought of being a sadistic [female dog] and stabing people to death does apeal to me. I've always prefered the strong female role.

I knew nothing of WaR's lore and wanted a amazonian looking chosen(muscles, big bulky armor, and a huge weapon!), not for them to cheap me and give me some small frail looking chosen as a tank. In the end I suppose none is better than the later in my opinion, as for running around in a bikini...well WoW has been pulling that G-string on my pally for ages, least this time its a agil evasive class and not a heavy melee/tank class.

[shotgunbadger]

What I don't like is the big "Well, women will love to play a Witch Elf because they can kick " argument. Well...duh, it's the only melee DPS class they can play and play a woman. Most girl gamers I know will still roll a Maruader depending on how neat the mutations are, will still play a Choppa, will still play anything that is a fun class, but to make it sound as if they have some giant choice in the matter if they want to be a baddie melee DPS woman.

Also, what majorly rubs me is that Order has no restrictions at all, I mean, Distruction was already at a disadvantage because Orks don't have genders, but to further go "Ok, now cut out females here, here, and here." is dumb. Now, I want to see them handle Black Guards, because the major argument for no women CHOSEN was "We can't make them look 'girly' in the massive armor!" but with BGs they have the same big bulky armor. If they make them any gender they'll have to answer to why Chaos doesn't get women tanks. That, and, back to my first point, if Mythic is so set on letting girls play the badass killer melee, why not let someone be a sexy woman Chaos who grows a giant crab claw and crunches a priest's head like a wallnut? That's majorly badass too.

[Thoden Firehammer]

So your dwarf?

No, my heritage is deeply rooted in northern European culture. It's right there in my post... I also admire thoes said cultures, they are interesting to me. There are other reasons, but if you couldn't understand what I typed without having me to explain it even more, than I wont bother listing the others

[Gizmogirl]

Okay, I have thought about it and this is why I feel the way I do:

I have always played casters or healers, and I made up my mind from day 1 that in warhammer I want to play melee dps on destruction side. The reason I never did in WoW was because everybody played a rogue, and on top of that everybody loved female rogues because of the T&A aspect of night elves. The one time I actually rolled a female night elf rogue, everybody thought I was a guy, assumed I was a noob because I was playing a female night elf rogue and I could never find groups since rogues were so overplayed.

So.. who is going to roll a witch elf in WAR?

-90% of people who only want a T&A character. There are plenty of people like this and WE is the only real option for them.
-90% of people who want a badass rogue-like character, or wanted to play a dark elf melee dps class.
-About 30% of girls who play destruction. (that's my guess)
-The handful of people who actually care about lore and want to play a Witch Elf because that's what they're interested in.

On top of this, not only will there be hundreds of witch elves running around, but most people who wanted heavy rogue-like dps will now be playing a female character and not even have the option of playing a male one on destruction side. Rogue is generally the most overplayed class, seconded by the T&A classes that are nice to look at. Now mythic has succeeded in combining the 2.

So call it selfish or whatever you want to call it, but I am bitter that the class I wanted to roll is probably going to be one of the most overplayed classes, will be exclusively female, and will probably be the worst played class on average due to preteen boys flocking towards pretty women.

Do I want to have a hellish time finding groups, be labeled as a probably-male probably-bad-player and run around with hundreds of other overplayed versions of myself in a game that most people strive to be unique in? Not really, but it's looking like I will anyways in hopes that at least I won't lose enjoyment in the class I want to play.

[Warsaw]

Gizmogirl, as Thoden might say. When did you become God? :P

Also, I don't think that many people will be judging gender specific classes. It's pretty obvious now that in the end there will be both genders playing female witch elves or male marauders.

Also, Thoden. There is no reason to get so defensive. My point was if an exstension maters that much they it would be more realistic to play empire because they are humans.

[Thoden Firehammer]

Gizmogirl, as Thoden might say. When did you become God? :P

Also, I don't think that many people will be judging gender specific classes. It's pretty obvious now that in the end there will be both genders playing female witch elves or male marauders.

Also, Thoden. There is no reason to get so defensive. My point was if an exstension maters that much they it would be more realistic to play empire because they are humans.


I wasn't being defensive, I was just a little frsutrated becuase I already had one of my mjor reasons for being a Dwarf, and how they relate to me, and then you said

"So... you're a dwarf"

Which led me to believe you completly ignored what I typed and only looked at the physical aspect of the races and not their mental deposition, or even what I typed to begin with.

Here's a physical trait that I can match with the Dwarfs, I am very, very hairy, no joke, and it's really thick hair too, I mean I can get a hair cult and it will be back and even longer than it was in less than a month.

Now things I can relate myself to Dwarfs mentaly.

I'm very stubborn, really stubborn, I would argue with a tree about politics of the tree could talk, ok maybe not but you get the idea.

I also have a deep sense of honor, and a no nonsense look on life, they also believe in this thing called common sense.

I'd also like to add that I think Dwarfs just over all look cool, I mean who wouldn't want to be in that armor, with the runes and gold trim, and the giant hammer..

[Kellaris]

..........

So.. who is going to roll a witch elf in WAR?

-90% of people who only want a T&A character. There are plenty of people like this and WE is the only real option for them.
-90% of people who want a badass rogue-like character, or wanted to play a dark elf melee dps class.
-About 30% of girls who play destruction. (that's my guess)
-The handful of people who actually care about lore and want to play a Witch Elf because that's what they're interested in.

.................

100% truth. Sad truth.
My only hope are guilds. Most of them will not want to recruit too much WE, so some of theese people will change their mind to get to guild

[Gizmogirl]

Gizmogirl, as Thoden might say. When did you become God? :P

Also, I don't think that many people will be judging gender specific classes. It's pretty obvious now that in the end there will be both genders playing female witch elves or male marauders.

Also, Thoden. There is no reason to get so defensive. My point was if an exstension maters that much they it would be more realistic to play empire because they are humans.

I didn't say I was god, I was simply voicing why I'm unhappy with the decision to include a class that will likely be hugely overplayed.

[Warsaw]

Wait... huh? It is going to be over played? So.. wait... Then... I'm confused. Why would it be over played? Didnt mythic/ea shoot them selves in the foot-wait... no that was marauders. All you people say that i was a bad choice and stuff but in the end if it is overplayed doesnt that meen it is a good class? So... ya... OH WAIT! 5-10 people wont be happy. Dang it, where is the dude with the Plankton!?!

[checkthis5000]

http://psychology.about.com/od/phobias/a/phobialist.htm

There are some odd phobias...

Chalk up a new one since it's not on the list. Girlfriend is scared of midgets. Seriously. No joke. Terrified.

So anyway to be on topic.

Hell yeah witch elves are female only. :p

And I like their battle stance. Not as much as the swordmaster's passive stance with the sword resting on his shoulder, but almost.

EDIT: To GizmoGirl. That's a lot of percentages. So in honor of statistics....

What was your sample group and your sample size? Did you randomly select your subjects?

How widely spread out was your sample taken?

Was it from multiple fansites? or from an area near your school/college/work?

And if you did not take a sample and these are just random percentages that have come out of your own pretty little head..... Why should we give them even a passing glance of credibility?

Just some questions ;)

[Kellaris]

All you people say that i was a bad choice and stuff but in the end if it is overplayed doesnt that meen it is a good class? So... ya... OH WAIT! 5-10 people wont be happy. Dang it, where is the dude with the Plankton!?!
No it does not.
If they would create naked flying girl that can kill everyone spitting at him, It would also be overpopulated class. But this does not mean that it would be good.
There is some balance issue that need to be considered.
And if balance will be broken, much more than 10 people will be unhappy.
Now I'm unhappy, becouse my favorite army becomes Barbie of the Destruction.
I will be much more unhappy if lack of balance will ruin gameplay.

Especially, becouse this is not kind of bug that can be removed in the patch.

[Gizmogirl]

Chalk up a new one since it's not on the list. Girlfriend is scared of midgets. Seriously. No joke. Terrified.

So anyway to be on topic.

Hell yeah witch elves are female only. :p

And I like their battle stance. Not as much as the swordmaster's passive stance with the sword resting on his shoulder, but almost.

EDIT: To GizmoGirl. That's a lot of percentages. So in honor of statistics....

What was your sample group and your sample size? Did you randomly select your subjects?

How widely spread out was your sample taken?

Was it from multiple fansites? or from an area near your school/college/work?

And if you did not take a sample and these are just random percentages that have come out of your own pretty little head..... Why should we give them even a passing glance of credibility?

Just some questions ;)

Like I said, it was my guess. Pure, unfounded speculation based on the other MMOs I've played and the people I've talked to. Believe me, I really hope that they don't end up being overplayed. I am just sharing what I'm afraid of, note how I didn't bash anybody who had a different opinion in this thread. I'll still probably play a WE, I just hope that I can find groups and such.

[Warsaw]

WTF are you talking about Barbie of Destruction? Omg! Thoden didnt you complain about the one guy saying that he knew what classes everyone would be? Now where are you? How do you all know everyone will play a witch elf? There are witch elves in the TT does that meen its barbie of destruction? Is WoW Barbie of Warcraft? They have girls in bikini armor. I guess so. The ballance is always broken in a game. YOU CAN'T CONTROL WHO WILL PLAY WHAT? OH I know, maybe Mythic/ea should make some classes dumber. Um... how about no?

[shotgunbadger]

WTF are you talking about Barbie of Destruction? Omg! Thoden didnt you complain about the one guy saying that he knew what classes everyone would be? Now where are you? How do you all know everyone will play a witch elf? There are witch elves in the TT does that meen its barbie of destruction? Is WoW Barbie of Warcraft? They have girls in bikini armor. I guess so. The ballance is always broken in a game. YOU CAN'T CONTROL WHO WILL PLAY WHAT? OH I know, maybe Mythic/ea should make some classes dumber. Um... how about no?

What are you smoking, I have no idea what you just said.

[Warsaw]

I bet you do but instead you just flame instead of adding something to the topic. Here I'll put it like this...

How does everyone know who will play a witch elf?

How do you know what will be balanced or not? You can not control what classes people pick.

The Barbie of Destruction? What? Have you not seen their TT models? Have you not seen all the other video games where women are dressed like witch elves? At least witch elves have been doing it for years and it's part of their lore.

You people seriously need to get over this. So far it seems to me that people are just complaining so they can complain. I have yet to be proven why witch elves should be male. And if they aloud witch elves to be male wouldnt that meen more people would play them and it would be even more unbalanced?

[Selandri]

I'm fairly sure this post started out as a joke, in reference to the Chosen / Marauder debates which have been ongoing for a while.

Lore-wise there's no reason to make male Witch Elves. it would bone the lore.

Game-wise, no reason. if you want to play male or male-looking melee DPS you have a lot more options. More than women get.

The whole kids playing it, eh. We are on the internet. I'm sure if a young bloke wants some material he can find some without using a computer game.

You can pull statistics out of thin air ( I decided to use a cleaner analogy, but you KNOW what I'm thinking. ) to prove a point, but it proves nothing. Are there men who play female characters? Yes. Do they do it for the 'T&A factor'? Not in my experience. Are there a few who do or will use that as an excuse since saying anything else gets them accused of homosexuality? Of course.

Witch Elves are an extremely important part of both the Druchii lore and the Druchii image. That they are being put in is a sign that Mythic cares enough about the lore and the armies they are using to make them as unique and lore-appropriate as they feel they can.

Usually the folks saying 'Only twelve year old men will play this for T&A' are the ones who really harbour those desires. It's called projection. ( In the psychology terminology ) Will there be young guys who think 'Hey, I think that looks cool, I should play it' ? Sure. Will they touch themselves at night over the omfg BEWBS! I doubt many will.

Witch Elves are no more a 'bad idea' and will be no more overpopulated than other ( Questionably ) iconic, 'Cool' characters such as Chosen, Marauders, Black Orcs. After all, the male image we're so often shown is muscular and aggressive. That's another issue entirely, however.

If you are worried that they will be overplayed due to the T&A factor, I suggest you go outside and see the sunshine. It's a video game, it's not real life, and there are very few young men in this age of the internet that are so desperate for titilation that they must resort to playing a video game.

Especially since a lot of groups use voice chat and the last thing an impressionable young lad wants to do is hit his push to talk key in the middle of, uhrm. Negotiating the hills and climes of his characters physique?

[BlackRose]

I don't think its a big deal in the long run, personally I was a orc rogue and thought they looked better than more fearsome than nightelf rogues :P

Yes of course I believe the DE area will be packed and from my past experiences more than half of those 90% or so kiddies gizmo speaks of never reach end game. Ratio may still be infavor of the WE but it won't be a landslide like in the begining.

[WarMachine]

I bet you do but instead you just flame instead of adding something to the topic. Here I'll put it like this...

How does everyone know who will play a witch elf?

How do you know what will be balanced or not? You can not control what classes people pick.

The Barbie of Destruction? What? Have you not seen their TT models? Have you not seen all the other video games where women are dressed like witch elves? At least witch elves have been doing it for years and it's part of their lore.

You people seriously need to get over this. So far it seems to me that people are just complaining so they can complain. I have yet to be proven why witch elves should be male. And if they aloud witch elves to be male wouldnt that meen more people would play them and it would be even more unbalanced?

Yea, What he said!!

But on another note, he's right. The WE IMO are more dressed that the TT models and have smaller boobs. After seeing the images, my wife thinks they did a decent job on the WE compared to other mmos and their vixxens of destruction. And speak of such... Not all beginers at the TT game rush to DEs because of these "Barbies of destruction". Well, actually, you could prolly refer to all DEs as "Barbies of Destruction".

It would prolly be easier to wait till launch to complain about something that is currently speculation.

[Soulreaver]

Eh, the only lore I learnt was from some skimming around at the Games Workshop miniature gallery website, but I still know that if Mythic made a male, witch-elf counterpart, who wears a chain-mail banana-hammock, people would generally fly off of the ing handle. And what can I say? If I was a TT fan, I'd be terrified. ;)

[WarMachine]

Eh, the only lore I learnt was from some skimming around at the Games Workshop miniature gallery website, but I still know that if Mythic made a male, witch-elf counterpart, who wears a chain-mail banana-hammock, people would generally fly off of the ing handle. And what can I say? If I was a TT fan, I'd be terrified. ;)
WTG Soulreaver, rehash a thread we'd all hoped died!

j/k, lol..... on another note.... I'm terrified now that I even read that post, thanks for the nightmares.....

[Thrakkesh]

I didn't bother to read the thread, but I'll end it about here.

This is not the case of ambiguity, a la Chaos Chosen (well, I mean females are rare enough that having none could be justified, even though there's like one Slannesh one and one in a novel that isn't techincally canon.)

Female Disciples of Khaine become Witch Elves. Female only. Brides of Khaine. That whole bit.

Male disciplines of Khaines become Assassins. That is the way the temple works.

Worshippers become Executioners, but they are largely irrelevent to this discussion as they would constitute a different playstyle.

This isn't the case of something you can sort of write away easily, this is, quite simply, the religious architecture of their race. So basically, totally improbable/impossible, as highly as you think of your carefully constructed arguments.

[CapnSquig-WHA]

Entirely too many threads about this, and this one even went wayyy off topic :) .

Locking, because the question about Female Witch Elves has been answered. No reason to dicscuss if further.