Alright, I admit it...

[Arijharn]

Swordmaster's look ridiculously awesome. Damn you Mythic for making me interested in yet another class.

Very much interested in those 'dances' in relation to your sword/magic styles it also seems if anything they are the opposite to a Chosen (in how they work, Chosen being defensive obviously while swordmaster is offensive, I'm guessing it will work in that way as well for these magical abilities that the Chosen have been loosely described as having (to the point it's contention).

EDIT: Just in case someone points it out, I know he's the tank... he still seems the opposite though heh.

[U4godlike]

i agree im pleased with HE they look sweet and awsome i would roll one...
but id rather cut off their beautiful heads =] but if i ever do play order ill have to roll one of these badasses

[adebacker]

Are you sure he is a tank? he sounds more like a melee DPS

[Gemini]

Yes, they said he is the tank.

[adebacker]

Yeah i just saw that in another post

[Kydrin]

The Swordmaster is Mythic's plot to get Order players to play a tank class by making him deceptively like a melee dps class. Order might end up with a shortage otherwise.

[VeriusCarth]

The Swordmaster is Mythic's plot to get Order players to play a tank class by making him deceptively like a melee dps class. Order might end up with a shortage otherwise.

And those of us who'd like to play an unconventional tank?

[Nerothos]

*cue girly squeal* Oh man, that podcast made me excited in my pants.

It was so awesome. My Swordmastery goodness is not being let down!

[Odiamh]

And those of us who'd like to play an unconventional tank?

I'm with you on this. I love being the unconventional tank. If I'm on my 2h elf champion, or being one of the few holy spec pallys(atleast as far as BE's go lol) I enjoy it far more then being a full tank. Mixing up the combat is more fun to me.

[Tremos]

Swordmaster's look ridiculously awesome. Damn you Mythic for making me interested in yet another class.


Hah! I was just about to make a similar thread myself. Damn...Swordmasters really look bad . I was expecting some pansy Elf, but damnnn :!:

Destruction 4 lyfe YO

[Shenryu]

GO GO SWORDMASTER!

[Screwhealz]

Swordmaster's look ridiculously awesome. Damn you Mythic for making me interested in yet another class.

Very much interested in those 'dances' in relation to your sword/magic styles it also seems if anything they are the opposite to a Chosen (in how they work, Chosen being defensive obviously while swordmaster is offensive, I'm guessing it will work in that way as well for these magical abilities that the Chosen have been loosely described as having (to the point it's contention).

EDIT: Just in case someone points it out, I know he's the tank... he still seems the opposite though heh.

I feel u man, all the cool classes in this game i cannot decide which to play, thats why im so happy i got into the december beta, so i dont have to spend the first month of release playing every class that seems like it would be awesome to play. now if they make white lions the other HE class im just gonna go insane...to many classes too little time lol

[Thoden Firehammer]

I think Mythic is doing a great job with the classes, however out of all the tanks, the Ironbreaker looks the best in my opinion, but that's because I always liked the Way Dwarfy armor looked.

[pooter26]

I just can't decide what tank I want to play, and im in BETA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AHHH

All December, when my college classes end, I will have 2 months of all Warhammer and im hopefully going to play every tank to level 20. I have like 20+ friends playing this game and have come to realization that I can't be with all of them, most seem to like Dest. so im playing what i like the best. All the tanks appeal to me so muc and yes you're right, Damn you Mythic for making such a cool game, im even obsessing over elves! WTF?

[Pandemonium]

Elves will always be pansies, no matter what title you put in front of their name. "Dodge" class tank is just another word for afraid of being hit.

[Vaeronthar]

Not all of us have bones so thick that we're unable to run.

'Course, I do have thick bones, so I guess that's not a great defense.

[Freax]

And those of us who'd like to play an unconventional tank?Roll Warrior Priest.

[Delolith]

Freax you do understand that Swordmasters by beeing avoidance tanks are unconventional tanks. The bonus with Swordmaster is that...they are good at defense whithout having to equip shield. This means that an ordinary tank would sacrifice durability (mitigation) by equiping a 2h weapon and not a one handed and shield. However, the Swordmaster's durability (avoidance) is not based on wielding shield. That means the fact that they wield 2h weapons gives them a DPS edge over other tanks without lowering their durability. In my vocabulary they made a 2h wielding tank which probably does more DPS without loosing durability (with probably less stun/knockdowns though) thus making Swordmasters an unconventional tank.

Delolith

P.S I don't see why you should jump on the if you want to play that...then roll this ship. This is not a single choise game imo.

[Grrblt]

Roll Warrior Priest.

Warrior Priest is not a tank. He's a healer.

[Screwhealz]

I just can't decide what tank I want to play, and im in BETA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AHHH

All December, when my college classes end, I will have 2 months of all Warhammer and im hopefully going to play every tank to level 20. I have like 20+ friends playing this game and have come to realization that I can't be with all of them, most seem to like Dest. so im playing what i like the best. All the tanks appeal to me so muc and yes you're right, Damn you Mythic for making such a cool game, im even obsessing over elves! WTF?

haha same thing for me man, but im gonna be playin all the support classes instead, maybe w/ a hammerer thrown in there too, they seem like a sweet melee dps class. But i actually think ive been able to narrow it down to archmage or shaman, even then the beta could change all my ideas about what i wanna play, having it come out right around the time i get outa school for break is awesome.

[Freax]

Freax you do understand that Swordmasters by beeing avoidance tanks are unconventional tanks. The bonus with Swordmaster is that...they are good at defense whithout having to equip shield. This means that an ordinary tank would sacrifice durability (mitigation) by equiping a 2h weapon and not a one handed and shield. However, the Swordmaster's durability (avoidance) is not based on wielding shield. That means the fact that they wield 2h weapons gives them a DPS edge over other tanks without lowering their durability. In my vocabulary they made a 2h wielding tank which probably does more DPS without loosing durability (with probably less stun/knockdowns though) thus making Swordmasters an unconventional tank.Lol true, but I was talking about the WP, not the Swordmaster... Its already obvious that SM is pretty unconventional.

Warrior Priest is not a tank. He's a healer.True, but with a sword, shield and thick armor, the career is going to have some tanking worth. Obviously not as much as the archtype designed for it, so I understand what you guys mean.

[Xaren]

Elves will always be pansies, no matter what title you put in front of their name. "Dodge" class tank is just another word for afraid of being hit.

You'd rather get cut in half?

[Mutters]

No dwarf is gettin cut in half. Bloody well try cuttin a stone in half with a butter knife. You elves wear your sissy robes and pincushion needles to knit someone to death, and we'll take our armor and hammers and FORGE their faces in.

-Booter McKnickers, Dwarf Engineer

[Foofmonger]

In past games, avoidance tanks have generally been worse then mitigation tanks, and I don't see anything changing with this regard in WAR (at tanking).

Why? Because avoidance tanks put a lot of pressure on healers. If you are on a streak, the healer doesn't need to heal you at all, and thus may divert their attention. If you are getting chain hit, it puts an immense pressure on the healer to heal you quickly, or you will die.

While the mitigation tanks take a steady stream of damage that healers can predict and heal through.

[Ranti]

In past games, avoidance tanks have generally been worse then mitigation tanks, and I don't see anything changing with this regard in WAR (at tanking).

Why? Because avoidance tanks put a lot of pressure on healers. If you are on a streak, the healer doesn't need to heal you at all, and thus may divert their attention. If you are getting chain hit, it puts an immense pressure on the healer to heal you quickly, or you will die.

While the mitigation tanks take a steady stream of damage that healers can predict and heal through.

Oh noes the raid bosses are coming the raid bosses are coming!!!!1

[Konrad Siegesruf]

In past games, avoidance tanks have generally been worse then mitigation tanks, and I don't see anything changing with this regard in WAR (at tanking).

Why? Because avoidance tanks put a lot of pressure on healers. If you are on a streak, the healer doesn't need to heal you at all, and thus may divert their attention. If you are getting chain hit, it puts an immense pressure on the healer to heal you quickly, or you will die.

While the mitigation tanks take a steady stream of damage that healers can predict and heal through.

Fights last longer in Warhammer :p.

[Foofmonger]

Fights last longer in Warhammer :p.

That would be a pro for mitigation tanks.

[Vaeronthar]

That would be a pro for mitigation tanks.Elaborate. All I see changing for tanks is that the dodge tank's damage intake becomes more consistant and predictable.

[Xaren]

No dwarf is gettin cut in half. Bloody well try cuttin a stone in half with a butter knife. You elves wear your sissy robes and pincushion needles to knit someone to death, and we'll take our armor and hammers and FORGE their faces in.

-Booter McKnickers, Dwarf Engineer

Ok tiny angry man :). we'll see when the game comes out

[Dastion]

One of the previous posters made a very good point in reference to mitigation tanks and avoidance tanks. Mitigation tanks get hit by just about everything, but rarely take much damage, they get the occasional streak of parries and dodges as well... all in all, it's really easy to predict when they need healed. Whereas, just to reiterate what the previous poster said, an avoidance tank takes the a lot more damage from hits that connect, even though they shouldn't be hitting nearly as often, so a bad streak of luck means he can go down faster.

However, no telling how Mythic will implement it. One thing I've learned, never think you can predict exactly what they will do. They love twists.

[ChosenOne]

Remember though people. White Lions will most likely be a pet class. A melee dps with a pet. That means an extra body in the melee fight. That aids the tanks as its yet another target people might click on instead of the swordmaster.

High elves seem more damage based rather then your conventional tank/healer/damage dealers based groupings.

[Senryth]

You dwarfs are'nt as indestructable as you think you are. Because if you really were that strong you wouldnt have lost Karak Eight Peaks to the Greenskins now would you:cool:

We do not need big Flashy armour and hammers to show our strength. We do not need Long stinky beards that are never washed to show how powerful we are. And We Elves deffinitly do not need Dwarfs telling us how to fight.

Unless you want to have a second "War of the Beard.":p

[Vaeronthar]

Unless you want to have a second "War of the Beard.":p
Psst... we lost that one.

[Immortal Skaldrir]

Psst... we lost that one.


Hahahaha, Fail :mrgreen:

[Senryth]

Psst... we lost that one.
it was a tie lol :o

[AltRocker]

No dwarf is gettin cut in half. Bloody well try cuttin a stone in half with a butter knife. You elves wear your sissy robes and pincushion needles to knit someone to death, and we'll take our armor and hammers and FORGE their faces in.

-Booter McKnickers, Dwarf Engineer

Meh, you can't kill what you can't hit.

[Skurk]

Meh, you can't kill what you can't hit.

But you can hit it.

[Grrblt]

Psst... we lost that one.

Any true elf would know that after the meatballs stole our crown and ran back to their mountains, we started assembling our fleets spread across the world to drop the hammer on them, but our dark kin took the opportunity to invade our home. So we didn't lose, they ran away and we had more important stuff to do than pursue them.

[e0r]

i think its a little early to be saying X will be better than Y.

mythic is already changing things with not having the pure healing classes as well as other innovative ideas, i see nothing that makes me think they will all of a sudden fall back into the old broken mold when it comes to tanks.

for all we know the difference in real play will be so minimul it wont even matter.

mitigation tank has 30% avoidance, 50% mitigation.
avoidance tank has 50% avoidance, 30% mitigation.

fight lasts 10 minutes and you have enough health to where you cant be spiked, ever, and you get hit hundreds of times.

does it really matter which one you have?
nope

[Kerandus]

A.K.A sword master = badass :D

[NewKid]

what about magical damage? Cause i have been looking at the sorceress and honestly...if the HE tank doesn't also have a bunch of resist stuff, well there gona be a lot of dead SM and that means no protection for his allies which means a lot more dead HE.

[ChosenOne]

what about magical damage? Cause i have been looking at the sorceress and honestly...if the HE tank doesn't also have a bunch of resist stuff, well there gona be a lot of dead SM and that means no protection for his allies which means a lot more dead HE.

You do realize swordmasters have an ability that can reflect all ranged damage including magic? If they are getting hammered they should learn proper usage of it when they see the sorc's winding up.

[Tzepic]

You do realize swordmasters have an ability that can reflect all ranged damage including magic? If they are getting hammered they should learn proper usage of it when they see the sorc's winding up.

Wall of Darting Steel

Description: You spin your weapon and concentrate on your defenses, greatly increasing your chance to parry and disrupt all attacks for up to 6 seconds as long as you maintain your concentration. Requires a Great Weapon. Also deals damage to any enemy in its field of effect.

Visual: the Swordmaster spins his blade in a circle in front of him, causing a blue field of magic to appear before him that deflects ranged attacks.
*Source Eleazar's thread Swordmaster Database*

I think this is going to be the Swordmaster's class defining skill. Not only is it amazing to look at, but the utility of this skill seems to be endless. With a few Swordmasters lined up next to eachother you'll be able to hide your whole group behind them if not more and you'll all be all but impregnable.

[ChosenOne]

One major problem with wall of darting steel is that from videos we can see that damage is calculated at the end of the cast time rather then when the attack visually reaches the target(s). That makes it much more difficult to time the wall as well as to code it so that the wall actually blocks these attacks. If the path is nothing more then a false trailer then the wall may only affect attacks on the swordmaster.

[Delolith]

Which video are you refering to ChosenOne? You have any link? I would certainly want to see some Wall of Darting Steel mechanics in a video...not just the showoff animation.

Delolith

[ChosenOne]

Which video are you refering to ChosenOne? You have any link? I would certainly want to see some Wall of Darting Steel mechanics in a video...not just the showoff animation.

Delolith


What we had was them showing it in one of the initial swordmaster video's they showed. Back when The Dynamic Duo used to get up on stage and show off the stuff to gamedays.

Look in any gameplay video and watch the damage number pop up from a ranged magic user. It pops up before the fireball or whatever the attack is gets to the target. That reveals that for now damage is calculated the instant the casting time ends. That makes it much harder to block a flying projectile or magic spell if not impossible.


http://war.curse.com/videos/details/624/

around 2:20 there is one.

http://war.curse.com/videos/details/635/

and another

As far as seeing it in an actual gameplay video I highly doubt you will find that without the video being nda breaking. Perhaps after they have moved on to the next phase of beta which is empire/chaos.

[Aweraw]

The solution is simple, dont make excessive mitegration tanks. Make all tanks depend somewhat on avoidance.

So a Swordmaster Dodges and parries.

An Ironbreaker parries and blocks.


Shields giving a armor bonus is bogus and deeply unlogical anyways.

[ChosenOne]

The solution is simple, dont make excessive mitegration tanks. Make all tanks depend somewhat on avoidance.

So a Swordmaster Dodges and parries.

An Ironbreaker parries and blocks.


Shields giving a armor bonus is bogus and deeply unlogical anyways.

Simple to what? You call that a simple solution? To overhaul this aspect of the game? Not so simple and definately would bring about another pushback. No thanks.

[Tzepic]

If the path is nothing more then a false trailer then the wall may only affect attacks on the swordmaster.

I figured with what they're doing with collision detection that the skill would make an actual wall that is actually going to stop thing.

[Eleazar]

what about magical damage? Cause i have been looking at the sorceress and honestly...if the HE tank doesn't also have a bunch of resist stuff, well there gona be a lot of dead SM and that means no protection for his allies which means a lot more dead HE.
This is a bit of an exaggeration don't you think? While the Sorceress is part of an archetype that has the upper hand over a tank like the Swordmaster, it doesn't mean that they will be dropping like flies to them on the battlefield.

I forget where I saw the source but it is also rumored that a 'tree' of the tanks will have magical defense much improved over the base defense, so if you want to go that route you can.

[ChosenOne]

I figured with what they're doing with collision detection that the skill would make an actual wall that is actually going to stop thing.

Thats what I was hoping for too, but unless they make it so damage isnt calculated till the spell actually reaches the target rather then at the moment the casting is finished that seems a bit harder to do. I could be wrong of course and they only have it this way so that people dont abuse line of sight.

[Delolith]

Actually according to some recent dev post (cannot remember where) the specialisation/tactics trees will have nothing to do with boosting resistances. Apart from that...the Swordmaster will have a vulnerability to the Sorceress on 1 vs 1...and even at that it will be a close fight as with all. If you think a Swordmaser is gonna fall to 3-4 spells the Sorceress casts you are kinda wrong. It will require at least 12-15 seconds to drop the swordmaster and that doesn't include the time you could save for some healing from your teamates while you do the Wall of Darting Steel that has an inherent increase to disrupt (resist). So if you think that SM will have a problem with sorceress...well that will happen in a 1 vs 1 senario which won't be a very common thing. And even then it won't be a warrior/mage matchup like in WoW.

Delolith

P.S If you have actually a Sorceress targeting to drop the Swordmaster then I think you have actually performed what you are supposed to do as a tank....so it is a win/win situation for your team even if that means you will fall in the end (maybe).

There is also a bit of over-exageration of the Sorceress dmg in general due to the fact that he could hurt himself in the process. The most DMG oriented is the Bright Wizzard...and according to some videos you can see that even the single target damage spells of the Bright Wizzard compared to the Magus for example are a bit higher. That means that even with the penalty the Sorceress will probably have dmg around the dmg a Bright Wizzard can do, with more versatiluty/utility or resilience for the cost of the self damaging aspect. So, I doubt you will see something phenomenal or strange with the Sorceress class dmg numbers.

[Eleazar]

Actually according to some recent dev post (cannot remember where) the specialisation/tactics trees will have nothing to do with boosting resistances.
I can't find where I read it so I'll concede that the much improved magic defense in a tree is nothing but a figment of my imagination or a point they made before introducing the new mastery system.

Tanks might have access to their tactics and morale abilities that might have magic resist abilities in them though, so that is something to look for.

But Delolith's post sums it up pretty good, the Sorceress is not a killing machine because of their self-damage mechanic, if anything they are the mirror image of the Bright Wizard.

[ChosenOne]

A tank being able to up its resistances through mastery is a bit overpowering if you ask me. Magical damage is what is best suited to take them down. If you take that away they truly become tanks. Especially the swordmaster which looks to be able to put out some pretty decent damage.

[Dankard]

In my opinion, they may put one or two maestry spells or so in the path of Vaul that would increase in some kind of way your chances to survive to magic nukes... But this only since Vaul path is the defensive maestry, and the maestry would probably be gimped if a fully defensive speced SM would still fall as fast as an offensive SM to Magical spells. So it's likely that there will be some way to improve your defense vs magic damages... But I doubt you could spec only in this.

And well, about the mechanics of the Sorceress, only some of the spells will be potentially harmfull for the Sorc. I don't think mythic wants to make a class periodically inactive because they risk to hurt themself... Especially looking at the global game... there's no mana and so on!
So in my opinion, Sorcs will try to use the black magics to burst dps you... And it's pretty unrealistic to think you will be able to burst damage to death a tank! And they may succeed sometimes, but sometimes they'll get the spellfeedback, and this may allow you to take them down... And the rest of the time, I don't think they'll be more dangerous than a magus (maybe that the magus could actually be worst since they seem to have some tricky spells to snare/mezz etc).

[Unforsaken]

Elves will always be pansies, no matter what title you put in front of their name. "Dodge" class tank is just another word for afraid of being hit.

Says the person with a dark "ELF" avatar...self hatred? Or just hate?

[Zianex]

i agree im pleased with HE they look sweet and awsome i would roll one...
but id rather cut off their beautiful heads =] but if i ever do play order ill have to roll one of these badasses

You mean cut off the legs? :roll:

[Isendir]

I can't find where I read it so I'll concede that the much improved magic defense in a tree is nothing but a figment of my imagination or a point they made before introducing the new mastery system.

Here.. i'll save your face.

http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/behindTheScenes/developmentDiaries/RenownSystem.php

A player can also purchase additional defensive, offensive and stat bonus packages using Renown points. These bonuses have a global effect on the player’s performance that will aid them in both PvE and RvR. Each stat package has multiple levels, with a greater bonus for each upgrade level purchased. However, each level costs an increasing amount of Renown points to purchase!

Examples:

Hard as Nails I – Increases your Toughness by 3, costs 1 Renown point

Hard as Nails V – Increases your Toughness by 42, costs 14 Renown points

Blade Master III – Increases your Strength by 9 and Weapon Skill by 9, costs 10 Renown points

Fireproof I – Increases your Elemental resistance by 20, costs 5 Renown points

Improved Heavy Armor III – Increases your Armor by 900, costs 15 Renown points


Long life to renknown?