HE pet class = White Lion or Shadow Warrior?

[mmofreak]

I think most people will agree that the 2 remaining HE classes will be White Lions and Shadow Warriors... just wondering what yall think, which of the two is more likely to be the pet class? I think it's White Lions, simply because Shadow Warriors as a pet class would be lame, considering that there is already an archer/pet class (Squig Herders).

[Skitz]

I'm thinking White Lion will be the pet class with a white lion as a pet or the slain spirt of the white lion becoming the pet. Another guess is the Shadow Warrior with a griffon/bird pet.

[Aeldor]

Copied From The High Elf Forum

My pet class hopes would be that you start off as a rookie White Lion. After a couple levels you are sent off to kill the famed lion that gives you your name. During the course of the fight you defeat the beast, and proudly skin it, to create your cloak, when you notice a cub nearby. The cub smells its mother on you, and decides to follow you home. Cue twinkling music, and fast forward 20 levels, and the lion has grown up, and is your new erstwhile ally!

Would be fun, and....kind of...stick to fluff.

To those that don't know, this link here shows the newest addition to the High Elf army, the Lion Chariot. Shows that the White Lions are used as more than mere hunt sport.

http://www.asur.org.uk/ulthuan/viewtopic.php?t=21337

Scroll down a little. Is documented changes that will come into affect with the new High Elf Army Book in November or so..

[Halios]

Agreed with Aeldor, I would LOVE to see a DPS class that combines it's own melee ability with the melee of it's pet.

So cool.

[Reezy]

I thought White Lions couldn't talk? Doesn't seem like a viable class if that's the case.

[Grrblt]

I thought White Lions couldn't talk? Doesn't seem like a viable class if that's the case.

Phoenix Guard can't talk. White Lions can and do.

[Reezy]

Stupid high elves with their stupid names...

[Jeralin]

Agreed with Aeldor, I would LOVE to see a DPS class that combines it's own melee ability with the melee of it's pet.

So cool.


No, can't happen, must not play a High Elf.

[ravn0s]

Agreed with Aeldor, I would LOVE to see a DPS class that combines it's own melee ability with the melee of it's pet.

So cool.

Sounds good and could be possible, but ultimately it might end up being too difficult to balance.

[Vikingkingq]

I think the melee pet class White Lion is the best option for a couple reasons:

1. It's something that hasn't been done yet. We already have Sguig Herders, we don't need another copy of them. However, a melee pet class would be the only one in the game, helping to differentiate the career from other melee dps careers.

2. Ranged DPS careers with pets have been done to death. The Sguig Herder manages to avoid the Hunter/Ranger boringness by the virtue of the sheer anarchic madness of the Sguig, and being able to do stuff like bowl sguigs, get eaten by them, etc. With a High Elf Ranged DPS, you're teetering very close to being a total carbon copy of a career that is just played out and generic by this point.

3. It's better lore-wise. Shadow Warriors don't have animal companions. They live in a harsh land, blasted with magic, where the animals are pretty much ravening monsters who try to kill you. Their spiritual affinity is with the Shadows - their higher-ups actually have shadow-based magic. The White Lion kills white lions, but at least he's got some connection, and the upcoming White Lion chariot suggests at least some ability to domesticate them.

4. It gives space for a more interesting ranged gimmick. Like I said, ranged + pet has already been done - Shadow Warriors, on the other hand, could have shadow magic, hit-and-run abilities that involve lots of knock-back/down/self-knockback, traps and other nasty ambush abilities, or some powerful Aimed Shot-type abilities.

[The Masked Prince]

mm I'm for the whadow warrior with a pet...
Cause I think elves' RANGE DPS will be both shadow warrior and Shade.
They have similar roles, but have to be different, opposite.
They could do something like the squig herder and the engineer, one with a pet, this time order, and the other pure ,DPS for destruction.

I don't really understanf how a wite lion with the pet could work, as mele DPS...
Of course, it's still possible, but if it is, then the white lion has to be weak enough to need this pet, it could be a pity when you see this impressive warrior for an elf...
And his abilities would be focused on the pet, could still be a pity for the character.

[Jandau]

Maybe Mythic will make something up like they did with the Zealot. Maybe some sort of a summoner class which could fill the mellee DPS spot...

[mongoose]

The White Lion kills white lions, but at least he's got some connection, and the upcoming White Lion chariot suggests at least some ability to domesticate them.


I think this is what we should be focused on. It is also important to note that the White Lions are the ones controlling the Lion Chariot, proving they do more than just simply kill them for a pelt.


Shadow Warriors don't have animal companions. They live in a harsh land, blasted with magic, where the animals are pretty much ravening monsters who try to kill you. Their spiritual affinity is with the Shadows - their higher-ups actually have shadow-based magic.

this does bring up and interesting and as yet unexplored idea though......could the SW, instead of getting an animal, get some sort of shadow entity as a pet??? Nothing says it HAS to be an animal and this would be rather cool to have a semi-etheral companion :rolleyes:

[shotgunbadger]

Copied From The High Elf Forum

My pet class hopes would be that you start off as a rookie White Lion. After a couple levels you are sent off to kill the famed lion that gives you your name. During the course of the fight you defeat the beast, and proudly skin it, to create your cloak, when you notice a cub nearby. The cub smells its mother on you, and decides to follow you home. Cue twinkling music, and fast forward 20 levels, and the lion has grown up, and is your new erstwhile ally!

Would be fun, and....kind of...stick to fluff.

To those that don't know, this link here shows the newest addition to the High Elf army, the Lion Chariot. Shows that the White Lions are used as more than mere hunt sport.

http://www.asur.org.uk/ulthuan/viewtopic.php?t=21337

Scroll down a little. Is documented changes that will come into affect with the new High Elf Army Book in November or so..

If that is how they do it, from a kinda cute cub who needs you to fight more for it at first, but eventually grows and is able to do better damage to help you, I will roll Order.

Before this I was gonna be a Gobbo or a Blackguard, but this...would be so awesome, and it fits the What You See is What You Get mantra of Mythic.

[VeriusCarth]

If that is how they do it, from a kinda cute cub who needs you to fight more for it at first, but eventually grows and is able to do better damage to help you, I will roll Order.

Before this I was gonna be a Gobbo or a Blackguard, but this...would be so awesome, and it fits the What You See is What You Get mantra of Mythic.

It also makes more sense, in that, instead of finding a perfectly wild animal and going, "You work for ME now!" you're taking a young animal, and training it to be tame, and do what you tell it to. You're teaching it, rather than seemingly bending a wild animal's will to your own plans.

It'd help to make the High Elf pet class stand out a bit. However, I'm thinking it'll go the way of the Magus Disk of Tzeentch. After all, they're not really White Lions until they kill the White Lion, right? Maybe they'll take it in a more progressive frame of mind, and it'd be awesome if they did, but also... I kind of doubt it. I could always be wrong though. ;-)

[checkthis5000]

The raising a lion from a cub thing is an awesome idea. If you can do that I found my class.

That's the only class I see amongst the high elves that would make sense as a pet class to me.

[Vikingkingq]

I think this is what we should be focused on. It is also important to note that the White Lions are the ones controlling the Lion Chariot, proving they do more than just simply kill them for a pelt.

this does bring up and interesting and as yet unexplored idea though......could the SW, instead of getting an animal, get some sort of shadow entity as a pet??? Nothing says it HAS to be an animal and this would be rather cool to have a semi-etheral companion :rolleyes:

Possibly. That might be kind of cool, if it were like a shade of a kinsman - since the Shadow Warriors are sort of obsessive about their dead kinsmen, and the kinsmen who killed them (Dark Elves). There's already something sort of like this with Alith Anar - the immortal Shadow King of the Nagarothi who comes to life whenever the Druchii invade the Shadowlands, possesses the body of a nearby Shadow Warrior, and returns to lead his people against the Dark Elves.

[Estebar]

It's also definitely worth considering this...

In the original scripting of the WAR trailer, the Elf section was to involve a no-holds-barred scrap between a Sorceress and a White Lion.

The fight was scripted to show the White Lion unleashing one of his skills, called "The Lion's Roar" (EDIT: I originally said it blasted the Sorceress back with a massive sonar roar, but I can't prove this. It might have just made him stronger, or terrified the Sorceress or something, but I'm guessing he roars like a White Lion should.)

(EDIT2: I can now confirm that "The Lion's Roar" was indeed a sonic blast, according to the original storyboards. "The White Lion's mystic roar assails her - She withstands its shattering blast.")

Games Workshop rejected this idea, (probably claiming it stretched the character lore a little too far,) so they scrapped the idea, swapped the Sorceress for a Witch Elf and replaced the White Lion with an Archmage to fulfil the "magic-using-character in-trailer" quota, claiming that they "could not guarantee [The Lion's Roar] would be in the game".

Perhaps they found a way around this dilemna by including a pet that could use "The Lion's Roar" much more appropriately...being a lion and all. ;)

[wellsy]

The raising a lion from a cub thing is an awesome idea. If you can do that I found my class.

That's the only class I see amongst the high elves that would make sense as a pet class to me.

Seconded. But if they do that, the White Lion will have to be second to my Archmage.

[VeriusCarth]

It's also definitely worth considering this...

In the original scripting of the WAR trailer, the Elf section was to involve a no-holds-barred scrap between a Sorceress and a White Lion.

The fight was scripted to show the White Lion unleashing one of his skills, called "The Lion's Roar" (EDIT: I originally said it blasted the Sorceress back with a massive sonar roar, but I can't prove this. It might have just made him stronger, or terrified the Sorceress or something, but I'm guessing he roars like a White Lion should.)

(EDIT2: I can now confirm that "The Lion's Roar" was indeed a sonic blast, according to the original storyboards. "The White Lion's mystic roar assails her - She withstands its shattering blast.")

Games Workshop rejected this idea, (probably claiming it stretched the character lore a little too far,) so they scrapped the idea, swapped the Sorceress for a Witch Elf and replaced the White Lion with an Archmage to fulfil the "magic-using-character in-trailer" quota, claiming that they "could not guarantee [The Lion's Roar] would be in the game".

Perhaps they found a way around this dilemna by including a pet that could use "The Lion's Roar" much more appropriately...being a lion and all. ;)

In that case, if they were even allowing a White Lion in the first case, it's pretty likely, unless they've changed their minds.

[Estebar]

I'm still hoping it'll be the Shadow Warrior-Great Eagle combo though.

Sure, the Squig Herder can get away with wearing the hide of a Squig while bossing one around as part of his crude, sneaky gobbo tactics to divert himself from becoming lunch, but I see High Elves as being sort of above that. If you wear an animal's skin, it's to show you've conquered it, avenged the Elves it's probably eaten, and from then on, the only authentic White Lion you plan to associate with is the one you wear on your back.

The way I see it, it's either an equal partnership between High Elf and noble beast of Ulthuan (i.e. no one's in charge, no one wears the skin of their companion), or the High Elf as well and truly conquered the beast and claims no further agreement with it.

At least with the Shadow Warrior and Great Eagle, it has more of a noble quality of Elf and beast working with on another civilly, which seems more High Elven in nature.

[Vikingkingq]

I'm still hoping it'll be the Shadow Warrior-Great Eagle combo though.

Sure, the Squig Herder can get away with wearing the hide of a Squig while bossing one around as part of his crude, sneaky gobbo tactics to divert himself from becoming lunch, but I see High Elves as being sort of above that. If you wear an animal's skin, it's to show you've conquered it, avenged the Elves it's probably eaten, and from then on, the only authentic White Lion you plan to associate with is the one you wear on your back.

The way I see it, it's either an equal partnership between High Elf and noble beast of Ulthuan (i.e. no one's in charge, no one wears the skin of their companion), or the High Elf as well and truly conquered the beast and claims no further agreement with it.

At least with the Shadow Warrior and Great Eagle, it has more of a noble quality of Elf and beast working with on another civilly, which seems more High Elven in nature.

Except that Shadow Warriors won't do that. Great Eagles will often associate with Mages or Loremasters and the like, because they know that those Elves will be good, decent, and moral. Shadow Warriors live apart from all that, they're embittered and hostile and vengeful. Unlike their fellow High Elves, they don't try to control their emotions, they store up all of their grief and their rage and their hatred and resentment and they channel it into their endless guerrilla war against the Druchii. As such, however, the rest of the High Elf society views them as a bit unclean, "touched by Malekith," and too much of a reminder of how close High Elves came to becoming Druchii.

[VeriusCarth]

I'm still hoping it'll be the Shadow Warrior-Great Eagle combo though.

Sure, the Squig Herder can get away with wearing the hide of a Squig while bossing one around as part of his crude, sneaky gobbo tactics to divert himself from becoming lunch, but I see High Elves as being sort of above that. If you wear an animal's skin, it's to show you've conquered it, avenged the Elves it's probably eaten, and from then on, the only authentic White Lion you plan to associate with is the one you wear on your back.

The way I see it, it's either an equal partnership between High Elf and noble beast of Ulthuan (i.e. no one's in charge, no one wears the skin of their companion), or the High Elf as well and truly conquered the beast and claims no further agreement with it.

At least with the Shadow Warrior and Great Eagle, it has more of a noble quality of Elf and beast working with on another civilly, which seems more High Elven in nature.

While I'm not saying I disagree with you about how White Lions should work, who's to say they haven't built up some sort of respect for each other? Even if it is a tad warped. I don't know exactly how they're going to explain that the White Lions have now taken to taming White Lions, rather than killing and skinning them all, but with the way it's going, it seems more and more likely that it'll be a White Lion with a white lion. If they give us a White Lion with a White Lion pet, I'm hoping they'll give us a reason why, that makes sense.

Maybe, because of the War, with Druchii heavily invading the High Elf lands, the High Elves have decided to get the White Lions to try to tame Lions as well, seeing their assistance as valuable? After all, with a lack of Dragon Power, and the fact that The Great Eagles are sentient, they're probably going to call on what they can find i.e. White Lions.

After all, part of the "Manhood" traditions in some places, where they're commanded to go out in the wilderness and come back with an animal hide or something, is as much to build up a respect for nature, and for the creature they're killing, as it is to strengthen them. Who's to say that after a White Lion kills its first Lion, it won't then use that respect to try and tame one of those creatures, or something along those lines? Sure... it seems odd, but... it could happen. =/

[Zeldias]

It doesn't necessarily have to be like that. It could just be that you kill the leader of a pride of White Lions, don the pelt, and then the other members of the pride take you on as the new alpha (is that the right term for lions?). That way you have the whole White Lion slaying the beastie AND get the pet.

Plus, I think it would open up a really interesting combination if there are skills that can only be done in combination with the lion, like the White Lion does a snare called Injure Prey, and then the lion is commanded to do Take Down, which is a knock down. Then the White Lion does some sort of violent axe attack of doom.

Sounds totally cool.

[VeriusCarth]

It doesn't necessarily have to be like that. It could just be that you kill the leader of a pride of White Lions, don the pelt, and then the other members of the pride take you on as the new alpha (is that the right term for lions?). That way you have the whole White Lion slaying the beastie AND get the pet.

Plus, I think it would open up a really interesting combination if there are skills that can only be done in combination with the lion, like the White Lion does a snare called Injure Prey, and then the lion is commanded to do Take Down, which is a knock down. Then the White Lion does some sort of violent axe attack of doom.

Sounds totally cool.

You're right, and I agree with you, and Feigro, who mentioned this in the other post. The Alpha Male theroy, and having the White Lions willingly follow a White Lion, or a bunch of White Lions, seeing them as dominant forces, does have some potential. So, assuming that the White Lion is in the game, we'll have to see what they do. ;)

[Feigro]

Here's my take on Aeldor's lion quest (this is meant almost as a parody, but in the manner I think it should be done);

My pet class hopes would be that you start off as a rookie White Lion. After a couple levels you are sent off to kill the famed lion that gives you your name. Additionally, your trainer explains he'd like to see if you could manage bringing back a white lion to use in battle. So you set out on your journey, you stumble across a small pack of white lions and upon discerning who's the dominant figure (The Alpha Male) of the pack, you proceed to engage them in combat. After a good fight, you defeat the AM and wound the others, You kill the AM and take it's hide. Then you make way to one of the wounded ones and leash it, with a swift bonk on the head if it resists. You take it back to your trainer, displaying your Lion hide and captured beast proudly. He says, "Good job, these lions would be great to use for war... I've got an idea, why don't you continue to train it and use it in combat". Fast forward 20 levels and through the initial hardship of ensuring your dominance in your "pack" (of two), and countless battles were you and your lion performed well together, the eventual bond was formed through respect of each others capabilities and prowess.

That way it's not some innate "I miss my mom" from the lion, and "I feel bad for it", from the Elf. Their bond is forged in battle, through fighting together, and through learning to depend on each other.

I'm not that huge an advocate for white lion pets either, mind you. But I don't think it needs to be brought to a level where the Elf and the Lion are bestest buddies. It can be a "soldier and commander" relationship. Both loyal to each other, both respect each other, but the obvious distinction of "who's in charge" is still made present.

(Note, I typed this while the above two posts came in)

[VeriusCarth]

Here's my take on Aeldor's lion quest (this is meant almost as a parody, but in the manner I think it should be done);

My pet class hopes would be that you start off as a rookie White Lion. After a couple levels you are sent off to kill the famed lion that gives you your name. Additionally, your trainer explains he'd like to see if you could manage bringing back a white lion to use in battle. So you set out on your journey, you stumble across a small pack of white lions and upon discerning who's the dominant figure (The Alpha Male) of the pack, you proceed to engage them in combat. After a good fight, you defeat the AM and wound the others, You kill the AM and take it's hide. Then you make way to one of the wounded ones and leash it, with a swift bonk on the head if it resists. You take it back to your trainer, displaying your Lion hide and captured beast proudly. He says, "Good job, these lions would be great to use for war... I've got an idea, why don't you continue to train it and use it in combat". Fast forward 20 levels and through the initial hardship of ensuring your dominance in your "pack" (of two), and countless battles were you and your lion performed well together, the eventual bond was formed through respect of each others capabilities and prowess.

That way it's not some innate "I miss my mom" from the lion, and "I feel bad for it", from the Elf. Their bond is forged in battle, through fighting together, and through learning to depend on each other.

I'm not that huge an advocate for white lion pets either, mind you. But I don't think it needs to be brought to a level where the Elf and the Lion are bestest buddies. It can be a "soldier and commander" relationship. Both loyal to each other, both respect each other, but the obvious distinction of "who's in charge" is still made present.

(Note, I typed this while the above two posts came in)

Well, if the Disk of Tzeentch is any indication, I don't see there being a wait for you to get what makes you iconic, as that's the thing with Mythic and WAR. (Anyone else notice that the White Lion would indeed be hard to miss, compared to some other High Elf classes?) So, at most, I'm thinking we're getting an, "You're a White Lion, and you've killed one, but you've still got one as a pet, and this is why: [reason]" and it ends there.

And while I agree that it'd be odd if it was "buddy buddy" from the start, after a while of watching its back, and having it watch your own, I think they'd eventually become friendly. Though, it's not likely that this will come into actual gameplay, I s'pose. It wouldn't be hard to RP out though. :)

[Feigro]

Then again, not that they're on the same level, but the Magus get's the disk at the start, however, the Witch Hunter doesn't get the hat. Additionally, Black Orcs aren't full encased in ornate armor. Though, It seems Herders may start out with squigs. So who knows.

The main point of my post(s) was to exemplify it doesn't need to be typical "elfy nature-loving" to manage a White Lion pet. Additionally, you can hunt a type of creature, and then tame/befriend that same type of creature at the same time. Wolf pelts and the like were common clothing at one point, yet now we all own dogs (not entirely the same thing, but a pretty close comparison). We eat pigs, yet some people have pet pigs, etc.

[Garok]

Could always be another caster type. Im thinking along the lines of a DAOC therg so not a traditional pet class a FnF job. Prehaps with different pets for the different winds of magic.

If you have not played daoc then a theg could cast 3 types of elemental pets (depending on spec) and was not limited to the amount of pets you could summon (apart from mana). You basicly cast the pet on a mob/player which it would then attack, it would not however pick a new target when the original target had died.

Earth - Long Dur - Low Dam - moves faster than sprint speed
Ice - Short Dur - Ranged DD
Air - Short Dur - Procs 1 sec mele stun

Not hard to lift the code from daoc to implament it.

[wellsy]

Could always be another caster type. Im thinking along the lines of a DAOC therg so not a traditional pet class a FnF job. Prehaps with different pets for the different winds of magic.

If you have not played daoc then a theg could cast 3 types of elemental pets (depending on spec) and was not limited to the amount of pets you could summon (apart from mana). You basicly cast the pet on a mob/player which it would then attack, it would not however pick a new target when the original target had died.

Earth - Long Dur - Low Dam - moves faster than sprint speed
Ice - Short Dur - Ranged DD
Air - Short Dur - Procs 1 sec mele stun

Not hard to lift the code from daoc to implament it.

Slight problem - thats too boring. White Lions are cool. White Lions with White Lion pets are cooler.

Thats our position.

[Okri]

Slight problem - thats too boring. White Lions are cool. White Lions with White Lion pets are cooler.

Thats our position.

That's your position, you mean. I can't see anything wrong with some kind of minion-summoning mage, and I don't think it would be any more boring than what else they could end up tossing at us. Personally I don' care whether the pet-class is a Shadow Warrior, a Summoner or a White Lion, as long as White Lions are in. Because I want me one of those.

[Thorval]

That's your position, you mean. I can't see anything wrong with some kind of minion-summoning mage, and I don't think it would be any more boring than what else they could end up tossing at us. Personally I don' care whether the pet-class is a Shadow Warrior, a Summoner or a White Lion, as long as White Lions are in. Because I want me one of those.

You think like I do, good sir. I just white lions in. I don't care if they have a white lion pet (although very cool idea), I just me a white lion class, axe and pelt and all.

[Nishlec]

Imho, I hope they never do another pet-class. Pet classes are just a lame excuse for a real class and are always the ones that are the hardest to balance. Designers that balance a game around end game don't know their hats from their shoes. Pet classes have always, and will always be, overpowered when levelling up, but do not suffer any drawback from it.

I realize that many people are hoping for a cool pet class for High Elves, but I pray that they don't create a Pet class. High Elves don't really use any Pets other than their mounts (Elven steeds, Pegasi, Dragons, Great Eagles) and considering how many unique options there are for a non-pet class, it would almost be heresy to even consider one.

One pet class in the game is more than enough.

[wellsy]

Imho, I hope they never do another pet-class. Pet classes are just a lame excuse for a real class and are always the ones that are the hardest to balance. Designers that balance a game around end game don't know their hats from their shoes. Pet classes have always, and will always be, overpowered when levelling up, but do not suffer any drawback from it.

I realize that many people are hoping for a cool pet class for High Elves, but I pray that they don't create a Pet class. High Elves don't really use any Pets other than their mounts (Elven steeds, Pegasi, Dragons, Great Eagles) and considering how many unique options there are for a non-pet class, it would almost be heresy to even consider one.

One pet class in the game is more than enough.

Thats your opinion, but it isn't going to change the fact that there will be a High Elf pet class. Deal with it.

[Feigro]

Mark Jacobs likes pet classes. We've known for a long time that WAR will have at least two pet classes. It was only recently we found out the 2nd would be on the High Elves.

Another pet class is inevitable.

[Loekii]

It doesn't necessarily have to be like that. It could just be that you kill the leader of a pride of White Lions, don the pelt, and then the other members of the pride take you on as the new alpha (is that the right term for lions?). That way you have the whole White Lion slaying the beastie AND get the pet.

Plus, I think it would open up a really interesting combination if there are skills that can only be done in combination with the lion, like the White Lion does a snare called Injure Prey, and then the lion is commanded to do Take Down, which is a knock down. Then the White Lion does some sort of violent axe attack of doom.

Sounds totally cool.

I agree.

The lore is being bent here and there, so lore is not a firm foundation to based a case for why/why not.

So I definately like this Alpha Lion quest idea, than 'gutting your pet'.

[Yavvy]

White Lions with a White Lion pet sounds pretty cool, imo.

If they need the WL to have a lion from the start, they could have you begin right after you've slain the lion - you've got the cape, name and cub. The quest giver in front of you might congratulate you on your kill, and wish you good luck in taming the lion, before he sends you out on a quest.

[CrossBre3d]

I dunno if anyone else came up with this argument against white lions..But wouldnt it be weird to give the DPS role a pet..

[Thoden Firehammer]

It would be different, but what's wrong with being different :P

[Pangscar]

Why do people think White Lions would be a pet class? They are named so because in order to prove their worth they must slay and bring back a pelt of a white lion, not take one as a pet. Lore bending has got to stop somewhere(I hope).

Source (http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/highelves/catalog/white_lions.htm)

[CrossBre3d]

Why do people think White Lions would be a pet class? They are named so because in order to prove their worth they must slay and bring back a pelt of a white lion, not take one as a pet. Lore bending has got to stop somewhere(I hope).

Source (http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/highelves/catalog/white_lions.htm)

I saw a miniature of 2 elves in a chariot while 2 white lions were pulling it..And if you have 2 lions pulling a chariot i assume they are somewhat tamed..

[Thoden Firehammer]

I saw a miniature of 2 elves in a chariot while 2 white lions were pulling it..And if you have 2 lions pulling a chariot i assume they are somewhat tamed..


agreed, and on that note, how lore bending would it be to let shadow warriors have pets?

[CrossBre3d]

agreed, and on that note, how lore bending would it be to let shadow warriors have pets?

Anyway giving a ranged bow user a pet is to corny..IMO But it does make the most logical choice..I am not sure if it is a lore bending being how i dont know much about the lore..

[Vikingkingq]

agreed, and on that note, how lore bending would it be to let shadow warriors have pets?

Well, let's see, the White Lions have an upcoming TT model that involves tamed lions.
The Shadow Warriors have no such indication that they are associated with ANY animal.

[Okri]

Why do people think White Lions would be a pet class? They are named so because in order to prove their worth they must slay and bring back a pelt of a white lion, not take one as a pet. Lore bending has got to stop somewhere(I hope).

Source (http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/highelves/catalog/white_lions.htm)

And had you actually read the thread, you would know that the people who are saying that White Lions could be a pet class know full well they're stretchign the lore. Instead, you try to look clever and end up making a redundant and repetative mockery of yourself. Good game.

And yes, White Lions may not make a whole lot of sense as a pet class, but they sure as heck make a whole lot more sense than Shadow Warriors with pets.

[Pangscar]

And had you actually read the thread, you would know that the people who are saying that White Lions could be a pet class know full well they're stretchign the lore. Instead, you try to look clever and end up making a redundant and repetative mockery of yourself. Good game.

And yes, White Lions may not make a whole lot of sense as a pet class, but they sure as heck make a whole lot more sense than Shadow Warriors with pets.

ouch, guess you told me. Everyone is posting their opinions as to what they think the pet class will be and nothing actually concrete or official either way. Which is why I posted that link and found nothing available on lore sites supporting white lion being a pet class. I didn't try to look clever or w/e lol, after three pages theres not much new anything can be posted on this topic. In the future ignore my posts or continue to be a , your choice.

[mongoose]

And had you actually read the thread, you would know that the people who are saying that White Lions could be a pet class know full well they're stretchign the lore. Instead, you try to look clever and end up making a redundant and repetative mockery of yourself. Good game.

And yes, White Lions may not make a whole lot of sense as a pet class, but they sure as heck make a whole lot more sense than Shadow Warriors with pets.

Of course you dont exactly come out smelling like a rose either Okri considering the information Viking keeps repeating over and over an over. You know the thing about the HE army getting a While Lion Chariot being pulled by 2 lions :rolleyes:

[Vikingkingq]

ouch, guess you told me. Everyone is posting their opinions as to what they think the pet class will be and nothing actually concrete or official either way. Which is why I posted that link and found nothing available on lore sites supporting white lion being a pet class.

http://www.asur.org.uk/ulthuan/viewtopic.php?t=21337

- Fifth post down. It's this image:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Khael_Vraneth/lionhechariotnk9.jpg

- New HE unit, coming out in the upcoming 7th Edition Army Book. That's a chariot, being pulled by two lions, carrying two White Lions.

Aeldor posted this on the very first page of this thread, third post.

[Okri]

Of course you dont exactly come out smelling like a rose either Okri considering the information Viking keeps repeating over and over an over. You know the thing about the HE army getting a While Lion Chariot being pulled by 2 lions :rolleyes:

And even with that picture, there is still a bit of a leap to using Lions as a pet. It's not that big, but there is a difference. A combat pet would require quite a lot more training than a "simple" beast of burden.

[Aeldor]

And even with that picture, there is still a bit of a leap to using Lions as a pet. It's not that big, but there is a difference. A combat pet would require quite a lot more training than a "simple" beast of burden.

A horse that is used to pull a chariot is actually very well trained, especially one that is to be used in combat. I guess the same would be said for a lion. That said, if you look closeley at the model, it looks like the furthest White Lion Soldier is hanging on for dear life to the reigns :P

[Vikingkingq]

And even with that picture, there is still a bit of a leap to using Lions as a pet. It's not that big, but there is a difference. A combat pet would require quite a lot more training than a "simple" beast of burden.

In the TT, chariot animals do get attacks, you know.

[Gemini]

Not to mention the lions are tamed enough to let the Elves braid their mane. Still a stretch? Yes. But not nearly as much as one without that chariot.

[Okri]

In the TT, chariot animals do get attacks, you know.

Oh my, people are coming at my from all sides now, aren't they? ^^

Just kidding, but still, I think it's different. With the chariot, the lions are thrown into battle, and will by nature attack anything they come across. They are tied, so they can't turn on the High Elf charioteers. A free roaming lion would, unless properly trained, attack anything nearby.

Anyhoo, it still isn't 100% canon that White Lions have White Lion pets, but it does seem more likely that they do, than that Shadow Warriors do. I' not saying that it's completely against all lore and whatnot, but it isn't clearly represented in the lore either.

[Aeldor]

Yeah you are right of course. To be completely honest up until very recently it had never in my knowledge been mentioned at all that the White Lions did anything but kill their namesakes. The new chariots suggest differantly, however they havent even been officially released yet. I presume the ones attatched to the chariots will be non-mutated lions, and perhaps these are less feral then normal ones. They could be less agressive in a similar way that giant eagles are so much more than ordinary eagles in the world of warhammer.

As for in game, theres no certainty whatsoever that they will make it as a pet class, or indeed as any class. Personally i hope they do tho :D

[Walrus]

Would a melee dps pet career work? Really? It may fit lore wise but the gameplay would be all confuzled. A White Lion wields a big axe, does he need a lion? The lion would'nt be tanking in any way. The lion would serve no purpose than to do a bit more damage.

[Okri]

Would a melee dps pet career work? Really? It may fit lore wise but the gameplay would be all confuzled. A White Lion wields a big axe, does he need a lion? The lion would'nt be tanking in any way. The lion would serve no purpose than to do a bit more damage.

Well, special "symbiotic" skills could be an idea. Special "tag"-combos and such. I don't know how it would work, but I hope that Mythic, given that White Lions will be the pet-class, has some great ideas.

Also, I think that if there is to be a pet class of High Elves, then I think that White Lions is the most obvious solution.

[Vikingkingq]

Oh my, people are coming at my from all sides now, aren't they? ^^

Just kidding, but still, I think it's different. With the chariot, the lions are thrown into battle, and will by nature attack anything they come across. They are tied, so they can't turn on the High Elf charioteers. A free roaming lion would, unless properly trained, attack anything nearby.


Which would suggest that the White Lions had trained the lions pulling the carts to respond to directs, to attack on the charge, to charge straight into blocks of troops carrying spears if need be...

[Gemini]

Would a melee dps pet career work? Really? It may fit lore wise but the gameplay would be all confuzled. A White Lion wields a big axe, does he need a lion? The lion would'nt be tanking in any way. The lion would serve no purpose than to do a bit more damage.

Melee pet classes have worked in other games, I believe either EQ or EQ2 had one. You take a melee dps class, ya make him slightly frailer and weaker, and throw in a pet. As said above, symbiotic skills could be involved to make it more dynamic. It's really not that diffrent from a ranged pet class.

[Chaoslizard]

I just wanted to point out that the Squig Herder wears bits of Squig and noone makes so much fuss about him having a Squig for a pet. :)

I am neither for or against White Lions at this time.


A pet Dragon would be cool though.

[wellsy]

A pet Dragon would be cool though.

Although it would be horribly unbalanced, I concur.

[Chaoslizard]

a small dragon with a lisp. To keep things fair.

[Familiar]

I personally think the idea of having a pet companion helping you while wearing the dead corpse of one of his brothers around your neck at the same time... is just stupid.

I also don't like the idea of melee character having to use a pet, because there will have to be some gimping of the character to balance out the extra DPS/abilities that the pet is bringing to the mix.

Look at the size of the axes the White Lions have, it seems stupid to think that they can't go it alone since he's too weak without a pet, and if he is made competent on his own, then when he brings the pet in it's going to be an overpowered class.

Basically I don't think it would work.

[Chaoslizard]

The Squig Herder and the White Lion Herder would be Brethren across a sea of frothing hatred- there eyes would meet in battle and sigh would escape their lips-
"Ah brother," they might think, "another world, another time we might share a pint at the pub while our pets enjoyed a play date."

All this talk of White Lions and Shadow Warriors, where's the magic? They're High Elves! They're magically delicious!- give me more casters! I find it odd that their DPS range class would be projectile rather than magic. They sneak the words "ranged dps" in, when they speak of the Archmage, but lets be perfectly honest, he fulfills the "healer" archetype in the HE set.

IF a Shadow Warrior is a cross between say an Arcane Archer & a Shadow Dancer-
(( D&D references((thats an old pen&paper((Pen & paper we used to use before computers))rpg we used to sit around a table with a group of friends and socialize and play))for the old schoolers)) - Then I am all for it.

AND I think White Lions would look very cool- even with a pet lion- and My Squig Herder might have to shed a tear everytime he has to fell one of his brethren.

[Vikingkingq]

The Squig Herder and the White Lion Herder would be Brethren across a sea of frothing hatred- there eyes would meet in battle and sigh would escape their lips-
"Ah brother," they might think, "another world, another time we might share a pint at the pub while our pets enjoyed a play date."

All this talk of White Lions and Shadow Warriors, where's the magic? They're High Elves! They're magically delicious!- give me more casters! I find it odd that their DPS range class would be projectile rather than magic. They sneak the words "ranged dps" in, when they speak of the Archmage, but lets be perfectly honest, he fulfills the "healer" archetype in the HE set.

IF a Shadow Warrior is a cross between say an Arcane Archer & a Shadow Dancer-
(( D&D references((thats an old pen&paper((Pen & paper we used to use before computers))rpg we used to sit around a table with a group of friends and socialize and play))for the old schoolers)) - Then I am all for it.

AND I think White Lions would look very cool- even with a pet lion- and My Squig Herder might have to shed a tear everytime he has to fell one of his brethren.

The more powerful Shadow Warriors - Shadow Walkers, Shadow Masters, and Shadow Weavers - can and do use Shadow-based magics.

[Chaoslizard]

While my Goblin Squig Herder will always see a kinship between himself and the White Lion Herder...


Perhaps, the "pet" is the spirit/ghost of the White Lion the high Elf slew in order to become a White Lion- now forever bound to the White Lion in servitude.

Secretly I am still rooting for dragons.. the small ones, with the lisp, of course... to keep things fair.

[VeriusCarth]

... Stag!

We're wood elves now! >_O

Honestly, I think I'm going to give a sigh of relief when I find out what it is. All this speculation is getting to my head. o_o

[Seldaren]

I personally think the idea of having a pet companion helping you while wearing the dead corpse of one of his brothers around your neck at the same time... is just stupid.

the White Lions have an upcoming TT model that involves tamed lions.

As you see, GW has already OK'd the idea of White Lions having tamed white lions. So there's going to be a tabletop unit with guys wearing white lion cloaks in a chariot pulled by white lions.

And it may have been mentioned in this thread, but it was mentioned in another thread about White Lions, that a possible pet would start out as a cub and grow to full lionhood. That would be a cub of the lion that was killed to make the cloak. So by wearing the cloak, the White Lion becomes the "parent" to the cub.

There's nothing, that I know of, to indicate that anything like that happens in the Lore but it sounds nice :) . And having a pet grow along with the Elf would just be wayyy cool.

So the White Lion would be functionally different from the Squig Herder in that there's only one lion pet (no multiple pet types) and there's no sacrificing the pet (no eating the pet for health) and no squig battlearmor (no getting eaten by the lion, heh).
And obviously the White Lion would be melee, not ranged. So they would be very different classes.

[Familiar]

It may have been mentioned in this thread, but it was mentioned in another thread about White Lions, that a possible pet would start out as a cub and grow to full lionhood. That would be a cub of the lion that was killed to make the cloak. So by wearing the cloak, the White Lion becomes the "parent" to the cub.

Stop trying to make it sound honorable or noble. He's killing the parent and wearing the corpse around his neck, then forcing the cub to do his bidding. It just sounds ridiculous.

High Elves don't strike me as the type of people to have deer heads hung up on plaques around the walls.

[VeriusCarth]

Stop trying to make it sound honorable or noble. He's killing the parent and wearing the corpse around his neck, then forcing the cub to do his bidding. It just sounds ridiculous.

High Elves don't strike me as the type of people to have deer heads hung up on plaques around the walls.

Um, but they wear the heads and skins of lions on their backs?

That, and the fact that they actually now are proven to tame the Lions, it's hardly even ridiculous. He kills the one he's got to kill to become an actual White Lion, and takes another with him, so that he can have something to help him fight.

You can't tell me that sort of thing is absurd. After all, what else is domestication of animals? It generally starts with stealing babies of said animal, and then breeding them, so that they'll lose the wild factor. Some times to get to the babies, you have to kill the parents. Just because we're "humane" now, doesn't mean it never worked like that.

[Familiar]

The fact that they actually now are proven to tame the Lions, it's hardly even ridiculous.

Just because they've done it doesn't mean it's not ridiculous.

I think you're over-analysing it. Friendly helpful pet despite wearing the corpse of the parent...

[VeriusCarth]

Just because they've done it doesn't mean it's not ridiculous.

I think you're over-analysing it. Friendly helpful pet despite wearing the corpse of the parent...

I never said it'd be friendly. That's what someone else said. I'm only defending the act of having a lion cub of a killed lion (parent) as a pet.

[Familiar]

So it's a spiteful slave? An obedient drone? Terrified of it's master?

There's no way I can twist it that sits well with me.

[Vaeronthar]

This has gone on too long. Fact is, the White Lions kill their namesake and not regular lions because regular lions aren't chaos-tainted abominations to nature. The lion chariot is almost undoubtably powered by normal lions, and not whites.

So, you aren't going to wear the pelt of the parent of your pet. You are not going to abduct the child of an animal you just killed.

[Familiar]

Thanks for the clarification, makes a lot more sense.

[VeriusCarth]

So it's a spiteful slave? An obedient drone? Terrified of it's master?

There's no way I can twist it that sits well with me.

Except that to begin domesticating an animal, you've got to take it from its parents. It happens eventually, what do you expect? Besides, as some others have stated, this isn't "Lion taming simulator" this is Warhammer online. If you're getting a Lion, you're getting a lion the way they want to give you a lion.

If you're going the way you're going, I'm sure you had plenty of issues with the WoW hunter, and the fact that he could magically tame a fully-grown animal.

I'm not saying that that is a reasonable excuse for such a thing, but, really. If White Lion gets a lion, you're going to have to deal with the way they give it to you, "sitting with you" or not. =/

Heck, we don't even know if it'll be White Lions at all, so it's not really useful to debate it, and whether the way it'd be tamed is logical or not, seeing as how we don't even know if the White Lion is in, with or without a pet. People are simply speculating different ideas that would work in terms of gameplay, even if they don't entirely match lore, or logic.

[Chaoslizard]

----> singing "Born Free, as free as the wind blows... "

((a nickle to any and all who get that reference))

And like I said, where were all the animal rights activists when the first Squig Herder donned his armor of Squig skin? The White Lion Herder will be just as noble....

[Yavvy]

A lion isn't going to recongnize the long-dead skin of its parent and want revenge. Thats a Human thing to do - and lions aren't Humans.

A lion cub that looses its parents and is picked up by someone will fight at first, but stop when it realizes the owner gives food etc and adopt the owner as parent.

White Lions with lion pets make perfect sense - its just whether Mythic wants them or not.

[Noesis]

I would like to see Lion riders or hordes of lions in the high elf TT...

8-)

[GotRage]

While I'm not saying I disagree with you about how White Lions should work, who's to say they haven't built up some sort of respect for each other? Even if it is a tad warped. I don't know exactly how they're going to explain that the White Lions have now taken to taming White Lions, rather than killing and skinning them all, but with the way it's going, it seems more and more likely that it'll be a White Lion with a white lion. If they give us a White Lion with a White Lion pet, I'm hoping they'll give us a reason why, that makes sense.

Maybe, because of the War, with Druchii heavily invading the High Elf lands, the High Elves have decided to get the White Lions to try to tame Lions as well, seeing their assistance as valuable? After all, with a lack of Dragon Power, and the fact that The Great Eagles are sentient, they're probably going to call on what they can find i.e. White Lions.

After all, part of the "Manhood" traditions in some places, where they're commanded to go out in the wilderness and come back with an animal hide or something, is as much to build up a respect for nature, and for the creature they're killing, as it is to strengthen them. Who's to say that after a White Lion kills its first Lion, it won't then use that respect to try and tame one of those creatures, or something along those lines? Sure... it seems odd, but... it could happen. =/

I think it's being over analyzed and people have skipped over the basics, but your ideas make sense to me.

Killing the White Lion is regarded as a great feat, and is the White Lion's passage into his..order of sorts. The HE clearly have respect for the power of the beasts, because that is how they choose to measure their own power. It is not a stretch to imagine that the respect would lead to something besides just killing their worthy adversaries.

I don't want some elf wandering into the mountains and coming down with a fully grown force of nature licking his face and nuzzling him though - any tame White Lion should only be so tame by being raised by their masters.

Anyone that has seen the pictures of the White Lion Chariot soon to be released will know how awesome the lions themselves look.

[Tea TIme With Death]

well, they only kill ONE lion in their lifetime correct? i mean they dont go abck 500 years later to see if they can do it again now do they? so whos to say they cant go back and grab a cub or grab one after they kill the first one and raise it as a battle companion?

[Thorval]

God damnit these ideas are so cool. I really don't see any other way for mythic to do it other than a cub that sees you as it's mother and grows on you. Shadow warriors will be similar to engineers, but instead of having grenades and gadgets, it's just a bunch of bow attacks and some melee, but no pet. Plus, a melee pet class is pretty original, as are most of the classes in this game.

I love this community. White Lions forever...

[Gemini]

Okay, can we get some clarification? I see two schools of thought on this:


White Lions kill the white lions because they are a good test of ability, and have great respect for the animals.
They kill them because they are a good test of ability and the lions are tainted with chaos energy.I don't really see the High Elves having respect for anything at all related to chaos, so... which is it? Can we get some official lore quotes?

[Estebar]

Okay, can we get some clarification? I see two schools of thought on this:


White Lions kill the white lions because they are a good test of ability, and have great respect for the animals.
They kill them because they are a good test of ability and the lions are tainted with chaos energy.I don't really see the High Elves having respect for anything at all related to chaos, so... which is it? Can we get some official lore quotes?
************************************************** ***************************
From Games Worshop:
CHRACE
"The mountains of Chrace are the home of the fearsome white lions. These mighty beasts range the wilderness in search of living prey. To be counted a real hunter, an Elf of Chrace must hunt and kill one of them single-handed."

WHITE LIONS
"Ever since the time of Caledor the First, the closest bodyguards of the Phoenix Kings have come from the forest wilds of Chrace. These guards are the bravest of the young Elves of Chrace, chosen for the honor of serving the Phoenix King by ancient rites. Not all are worthy to serve, and each must demonstrate his skill and bravery by tracking down one of the fierce white lions that roam the dark forests and barren mountains of that land. When they find one, they must kill it in hand-to-hand combat and take its pelt."

KORHIL, HUNTER CAPTAIN OF THE WHITE LIONS
"It was Korhil who hunted and caught the great lion Charandis. This lion was a particularly dangerous, massive and ferocious creature mutated by the warping power of Chaos seeping from the magic-riven Annulii mountains."

************************************************** ***************************

From this, I'd say we can gather that it is a mix of both your possibilities, along with some further explanation.

i.e.
White Lions kill the white lions because they are a good test of ability, as the lions have grown big and strong living close to the warping Chaos energies of the Annulii and thus make magnificent hunters themselves, earning the respect of the White Lions who dwell in the wilderness beside them near the Annulii.

Personally, I have no problem with the lore as I agree that it can be interpreted in a way in which White Lions can fight alongside their animal counterparts. Elf hunters and woodsmen from the wilderness of Ulthuan would defend their island by bringing all Ulthuan has to offer against the invaders, including the beasts that are native there. In a sense, the animal white lions represent a united Ulthuan, elf and beast, fighting back against the invaders who seek to make trouble for all of the island's inhabitants, elf and non-elf.

My main concern is that by making the High Elf melee dps class a 'melee dps/pet hybrid class', it will undermine the martial strength of the High Elf melee dps class when compared to the Dark Elf melee dps class.

How many of you find the concept of a half-naked Dark Elf girl wielding knives having the potential to deal more melee damage than a tall, muscular High Elf woodsman wielding a two-handed battleaxe, if the two were to fight one another face-to-face, more than a little insulting?

We'd never hear the end of it. "The High Elf beefcakes need a big white -cat to contend with the Dark Elf girls". :(

[VeriusCarth]

My main concern is that by making the High Elf melee dps class a 'melee dps/pet hybrid class', it will undermine the martial strength of the High Elf melee dps class when compared to the Dark Elf melee dps class.

How many of you find the concept of a half-naked Dark Elf girl wielding knives having the potential to deal more melee damage than a tall, muscular High Elf woodsman wielding a two-handed battleaxe, if the two were to fight one another face-to-face, more than a little insulting?

We'd never hear the end of it. "The High Elf beefcakes need a big white -cat to contend with the Dark Elf girls". :(

*Shrug* That would be fairly disappointing, unless the lion was simply just awesome. But, yeah, it would be fairly bothersome to see some guy wielding a huge axe, and still be weaker than someone who's only got two tiny daggers.

[Accipiter]

I like the idea of a melee career with a pet for one reason. It's different from the Squig Herder ranged/dps/pet class. Difference is good. Difference gives flavor.

I leave the lore arguments to others. As to the argument that "a melee class with a pet is too hard to balance", I have a couple of thoughts. The main concern seems to be that balancing the elf's damage and the pet's may leave the elf kind of gimpy in the dps department.

Therefore.....

The pet might have other functions than adding to dps. The Captain class in LOTRO is a melee class with a pet and the pet does very little damage. Instead the pet produces a party buff, does an occasional stun, and heals the Captain.

A lion pet could do DOT-level damage (what's a lion that doesn't bite?) but the Elf does the vast majority of the dps. The pet could then be used to stun, snare, buff, debuff, etc.

Just a thought.

[VeriusCarth]

I like the idea of a melee career with a pet for one reason. It's different from the Squig Herder ranged/dps/pet class. Difference is good. Difference gives flavor.

I leave the lore arguments to others. As to the argument that "a melee class with a pet is too hard to balance", I have a couple of thoughts. The main concern seems to be that balancing the elf's damage and the pet's may leave the elf kind of gimpy in the dps department.

Therefore.....

The pet might have other functions than adding to dps. The Captain class in LOTRO is a melee class with a pet and the pet does very little damage. Instead the pet produces a party buff, does an occasional stun, and heals the Captain.

A lion pet could do DOT-level damage (what's a lion that doesn't bite?) but the Elf does the vast majority of the dps. The pet could then be used to stun, snare, buff, debuff, etc.

Just a thought.

I thought about that myself, but considering that the lions are fierce enough to be a target for the White Lions, in hand-to-hand no less, I doubt they'd get the shaft on damage, for the sake of making the White Lion himself, strong.

After all, it wouldn't represent that it was actually a challenge for the White Lion to actually defeat a lion. =/

[Gemini]

KORHIL, HUNTER CAPTAIN OF THE WHITE LIONS
"It was Korhil who hunted and caught the great lion Charandis. This lion was a particularly dangerous, massive and ferocious creature mutated by the warping power of Chaos seeping from the magic-riven Annulii mountains."


To me that sounds like only Charandis was warped by chaos powers. But I suppose they all could be like that, and that passage is just explaining why white lions where chosen to be hunted.

[Accipiter]

I thought about that myself, but considering that the lions are fierce enough to be a target for the White Lions, in hand-to-hand no less, I doubt they'd get the shaft on damage, for the sake of making the White Lion himself, strong.

After all, it wouldn't represent that it was actually a challenge for the White Lion to actually defeat a lion. =/

People will always make objections on the basis of lore. When the Squig Herder came out people said, "Goblins are weak in the table top game so the Squig should do most of the damage". But Mythic hasn't followed that path.

Lore must be respected but the class must be playable.

[VeriusCarth]

People will always make objections on the basis of lore. When the Squig Herder came out people said, "Goblins are weak in the table top game so the Squig should do most of the damage". But Mythic hasn't followed that path.

Lore must be respected but the class must be playable.

I mean, you've got a point... but, I dunno.

I think it'd be sad to have a White Lion not be dealing big damage with his axe, as well as feeling disappointed if a lion couldn't helpfully maul people too.

At this point, I guess I'm on the fence. I'd be quite happy if they could make the White Lion + Lion work, and feel comfortable, not too clunky, I'll be fine. If not... remove the pet, and leave the White Lion by himself.

[wellsy]

You know, I just had an idea. In the original video, the "Lion's Roar" was an ability they weren't sure would be implemented. What I'm thinking is, if the White Lion does the roar, draining the morale or something like that of the enemy, then both the Lion and the Elf mightn't need to do soo much damage as quickly as a Witch Elf.

They could also implement a stunning mechanism, that would slow down the enemy, that means they wouldn't have to do as much DoT as the Witch Elf (I mean, come on. You're being hit by a giant Lion or slapped by a bloody huge axe, of course you're going to be a bit disoriented and concussed).

And RE whether the White Lions are actually warped by Chaos, I'm with Gemini. It seems only Charandis was warped by Chaos (in short, we're not sure about the rest of the lions).

[Revolutionomni]

I agree with where some people's ideas are going. While the White Lions don't "need" pets, if they do get them and want both lore and game play balanced, they could make the lion's hits hard to make it look strong but slow coming, that way in the end, most the dps is coming from the White Lion. Beyond that the lion provides the White Lion with buffs and debuff enemies with special attacks. It could work out that way. :wink:

Lastly, wouldn't it be sad if the lions were their only pet? I mean Herders at least get different Squigs, so if they do make a pet class, I hope it at least gets around four different pets. :D

[Terridan]

Hi! First post, though I've been reading the forums for a little while.

I think Revolutionmni has the idea right... in most MMO's 2 handed weapons aren't good for consistent damage, but give big numbers. End result is that it makes the damage streaky, sometimes very much so.

The White Lion character, if implemented as the pet class, could use a series of big, heavy swings with his axe, while the pet does smaller hits on the target. Effectively, it would even out.

Another idea, though this would be really strange to implement and I don't see it happening, is that the lion itself is the prime source of constant damage, and all the swings from the axe are special moves that do massive damage. That would make the character itself way too passive so I doubt that would happen, but it is a thought.

[Estebar]

I thought about that myself, but considering that the lions are fierce enough to be a target for the White Lions, in hand-to-hand no less, I doubt they'd get the shaft on damage, for the sake of making the White Lion himself, strong. ...but then it was the elf who defeated and skinned the lion, thus proving himself stronger. Not the other way around. :-P

People will always make objections on the basis of lore. When the Squig Herder came out people said, "Goblins are weak in the table top game so the Squig should do most of the damage". But Mythic hasn't followed that path. But that's different, considering there's a Ranged DPS/Melee contrast between goblin and squig, and goblins are still pretty deadly from a range. It's only close-up that they suck. The dilemna with the White Lion and his pet is that if both are combat-oriented, and both are supposed to be fierce and deadly at close quarters, how are they going to do both justice without overpowering the class?

You know, I just had an idea. In the original video, the "Lion's Roar" was an ability they weren't sure would be implemented. What I'm thinking is, if the White Lion does the roar, draining the morale or something like that of the enemy, then both the Lion and the Elf mightn't need to do so much damage as quickly as a Witch Elf.

They could also implement a stunning mechanism, that would slow down the enemy, that means they wouldn't have to do as much DoT as the Witch Elf (I mean, come on. You're being hit by a giant Lion or slapped by a bloody huge axe, of course you're going to be a bit disoriented and concussed). I said something similar about The Lion's Roar in another thread a while back. It certainly seems like it was the best solution to getting around Games Workshop's disapproval of letting the White Lion use the skill himself. Also, I agree. The lion could be fast, moving like the White Wolfos from 'Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess'. Heavy on running, pouncing Hit & Run attacks, and capable of dealing stuns, slows and debuffs which will make the White Lion elf's job easier.

The trouble is, unlike the Squig Herder's squigs, which are pretty expendable, there is only one white lion pet. How are they going to let this pet maintain its value, and how crippled will the White Lion elf be if his pet dies? Will he have to wait until he, himself, dies and respawns? Can the pet be healed and rezzed like any of the careers?

Also, on a side-note, if they really are the melee dps choice, I really hope they design the class better than the miniatures (http://uk.games-workshop.com/highelves/miniature-gallery/13/). If you squint a little, they look like clumsy marshmallows wearing tall hats and chainmail. I'm hoping they'll look a little more graceful, and a little more wild and like "from-the-wilderness" woodsmen than the miniatures themselves.

[VeriusCarth]

...but then it was the elf who defeated and skinned the lion, thus proving himself stronger. Not the other way around. :-P

Well, sometimes it is.

I just said that because, if the Lion Was some weak little thing that proved almost no challenge, it wouldn't really be worth sending them up to fight a Lion in combat, to become a White Lion. I just don't want to see what is supposed to be the defining reason that White Lions become what they are, be really weak, else it'd make it seem like any schmuck could be a White Lion.

[Noesis]

I really don't want the lion to have a pet...

That would just be retarded imo.

I really prefer the idea of the shadow warrior using an eagle.

[Smachaz]

************************************************** ***************************
From Games Worshop:
CHRACE
"The mountains of Chrace are the home of the fearsome white lions. These mighty beasts range the wilderness in search of living prey. To be counted a real hunter, an Elf of Chrace must hunt and kill one of them single-handed."

WHITE LIONS
"Ever since the time of Caledor the First, the closest bodyguards of the Phoenix Kings have come from the forest wilds of Chrace. These guards are the bravest of the young Elves of Chrace, chosen for the honor of serving the Phoenix King by ancient rites. Not all are worthy to serve, and each must demonstrate his skill and bravery by tracking down one of the fierce white lions that roam the dark forests and barren mountains of that land. When they find one, they must kill it in hand-to-hand combat and take its pelt."

As in, one on one, killing the Lion with his bare hands? How awesome is that?

[Gemini]

Hand to hand dosn't mean with their bare hands, it just means with melee weapons. In this case, probably an axe.

[wellsy]

I said something similar about The Lion's Roar in another thread a while back. It certainly seems like it was the best solution to getting around Games Workshop's disapproval of letting the White Lion use the skill himself. Also, I agree. The lion could be fast, moving like the White Wolfos from 'Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess'. Heavy on running, pouncing Hit & Run attacks, and capable of dealing stuns, slows and debuffs which will make the White Lion elf's job easier.

The trouble is, unlike the Squig Herder's squigs, which are pretty expendable, there is only one white lion pet. How are they going to let this pet maintain its value, and how crippled will the White Lion elf be if his pet dies? Will he have to wait until he, himself, dies and respawns? Can the pet be healed and rezzed like any of the careers?

Also, on a side-note, if they really are the melee dps choice, I really hope they design the class better than the miniatures (http://uk.games-workshop.com/highelves/miniature-gallery/13/). If you squint a little, they look like clumsy marshmallows wearing tall hats and chainmail. I'm hoping they'll look a little more graceful, and a little more wild and like "from-the-wilderness" woodsmen than the miniatures themselves.

Well, I did say that the White Lion himself could stun you by beating you in the head with the face of his axe. The Lion would be able to get the roar ability, which is what makes it unique from the Elf (ie both can do the stun, but the White Lion gets the finishing moves, and the Lion gets the ability to drain morale etc).

And as for the model designs... well, given that the Swordmasters are certainly looking much more dynamic in game than their TT counterparts, I'd say we have nothing to worry about.

[Revolutionomni]

Here's how I hope it plays out:

1: Shadow Warrior: Ranged damage dealer with traps and other debuffing abilities; still good in melee but fairly squishy. If he has a pet, he will get different kinds of small animals (fairly squishy) that produce different buffing/debuffing effects or abilities for him; they will provide very little damage, if any.

2: White Lion: Melee damage dealer. Slow swings but plenty of special attacks with various effects; slower but heavier Choppa. Has medium armor and no pet.

Here's the thing, I think plenty of people are assuming the "pet class" will have at the least a decent damage dealing pet (and only the lion as their pet) and from all the discussions I've seen and given the lore, the White Lions will have no pet; in my opinion. I think a good scout on the other hand, can use forest animals but not as guardians or attackers. Rather, the animals are utilities that provide extensions to their senses: sight, smell, hearing and so on. Thus it's my belief that the pets will be no more than buff/debuff-bots for the ever cleaver Shadow Warrior. :cool:

Again, this is just my belief and I hope they stick to lore as much as possible. In all honestly, I don't want the High Elves to have a pet class; leave that for the wood elves to come. That said, I think the pet should be minor in game play. ;-)

[Vikingkingq]

Revolutionomni, Noesis:

1. Shadow Warriors do not tame woodland animals. They live in a blasted land where the wildlife has been mutated horribly by magical energy, and where everything tries to kill you. They do not have mystical bonds with nature, because the nature has gone completely bonkers. Shadow Warriors, to the extent that they have a mystical bond with anything, have a mystical bond with SHADOWS - their mages use a special Lore of Shadow list, their Shadow King is pretty damn good at it, etc. So how does it break lore less to have them frolic with woodland animals?

2. White Lions, as evidenced by the new table top unit, do in fact tame lions. How does it break lore more for them to have pets than it would for the Shadow Warrior?

3. We already have a ranged bow-wielding pet class. Why bother with another?

4. We do not have a melee pat class. Why not try something new?

[Kaeldor]

I really wish neither the SW nor the WL would get a pet ....

[Revolutionomni]

Revolutionomni, Noesis:

1. Shadow Warriors do not tame woodland animals. They live in a blasted land where the wildlife has been mutated horribly by magical energy, and where everything tries to kill you. They do not have mystical bonds with nature, because the nature has gone completely bonkers. Shadow Warriors, to the extent that they have a mystical bond with anything, have a mystical bond with SHADOWS - their mages use a special Lore of Shadow list, their Shadow King is pretty damn good at it, etc. So how does it break lore less to have them frolic with woodland animals?

2. White Lions, as evidenced by the new table top unit, do in fact tame lions. How does it break lore more for them to have pets than it would for the Shadow Warrior?

3. We already have a ranged bow-wielding pet class. Why bother with another?

4. We do not have a melee pat class. Why not try something new?


1: I never insinuated that they're like wood elves that bond with animals as equals, but rather use them as tools; only tame them for their uses. While I've seen no lore to support this, the lore for the White Lions just makes me "feel" as though: White Lions have proven themselves as powerful combatants (against the powerful lions no less), so why would they really WANT or NEED them at their side? As for their lands, if Shadow Warriors do become playable they won't only be upon their shadowed lands any longer and the pets I had in mind are very minor, only tools for them to use as dark "rangers" of the land - I honestly don't want them to have pets either. :(

2: I haven't seen any recent info on this, I would love to see it if someone could link it, as this could easily put things into perspective for everyone. Very interesting info to learn. :D

3: The High Elves? The Swordmaster may be able to use one, but it's not their main weapon; I've been only talking about the High Elf selection. And as for the Shadow Warrior in combat, I still see them being able to toss out some nice melee damage, it just puts them at great risk to melee classes. Shadow Warriors have and can use bows well enough while I at least don't see any on the White Lion's miniatures; only to show the White Lion's role/theme.

4: I suppose if the pet is more than just "tools", as I've put it, than the White Lion in this case should be the pet class and I agree, a melee pet class would be rather interesting. But as I stated in #1, just makes me question the intent of giving them a pet if they're capable warriors to begin with. :roll: Do you at least see where I'm coming from with the White Lion if not the Shadow Warrior? :?

[Revolutionomni]

I really wish neither the SW nor the WL would get a pet ....

I'm with you.... :sad:

They still have time to change things if they deem fit. ;-)

[Aeldor]

It was actually posted up on the very first page of this thread by myself, and many other times here and elsewhere, but here is the White Lion Chariot again. Its the only evidence we really have within the High Elf lore itself that suggests any affinity to animals, besides that of loremasters and their friendships with Great Eagles. (Who are way too sentient to ever be considered a pet)

http://www.asur.org.uk/ulthuan/viewtopic.php?t=21337 has a lot of new information.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Khael_Vraneth/lionhechariotnk9.jpg the picture itself...

As for any comments about Shadow Warriors, it seems the recent Mark of Chaos game has done them a HUGE disservice. People have seen one fighting in melee with fancy moves, and assume them to be decent melee fighters. In actual fact if they come up against anything but the weakest enemy unit in melee combat they will be killed. This is because they are ranged scouts. Not saying they will be exactly as they are in the TT, but if they follow TT lore at all they will be archers. They are armed with swords, and can use them, but are primarily ranged scouts.

[Revolutionomni]

It was actually posted up on the very first page of this thread by myself, and many other times here and elsewhere, but here is the White Lion Chariot again. Its the only evidence we really have within the High Elf lore itself that suggests any affinity to animals, besides that of loremasters and their friendships with Great Eagles. (Who are way too sentient to ever be considered a pet)

http://www.asur.org.uk/ulthuan/viewtopic.php?t=21337 has a lot of new information.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Khael_Vraneth/lionhechariotnk9.jpg the picture itself...

As for any comments about Shadow Warriors, it seems the recent Mark of Chaos game has done them a HUGE disservice. People have seen one fighting in melee with fancy moves, and assume them to be decent melee fighters. In actual fact if they come up against anything but the weakest enemy unit in melee combat they will be killed. This is because they are ranged scouts. Not saying they will be exactly as they are in the TT, but if they follow TT lore at all they will be archers. They are armed with swords, and can use them, but are primarily ranged scouts.

Sorry, I do recall seeing that Chariot now. :oops: And, thx again for linking it; those are some big kitties. :shock:

Again, the White Lions may very well end up with lions as pets, but those things are huge enough to be mounts; ones which eat you for lunch. I guess if they wanted to in theme, the White Lions tame them at cubs up to young lions and as you play, they grow in size as they lvl up :rolleyes:

But still, I just feel a discomfort about the White Lions having a pet in the first place. I hope they release more info on the pet class to end my concerns. :confused:

[Estebar]

Purely from a design point of view, are we hoping for something along the lines of this (http://www.fantasyshop.gr/gallery/wh-stratoi%20white-lion-art.jpg) for the White Lions?

Sorry about the size. If anyone can find a bigger version of that artwork, I'd be a happy bunny.

[Terridan]

Purely from a design point of view, are we hoping for something along the lines of this (http://www.fantasyshop.gr/gallery/wh-stratoi%20white-lion-art.jpg) for the White Lions?

Sorry about the size. If anyone can find a bigger version of that artwork, I'd be a happy bunny.

Yes, yes we are. :)

[VeriusCarth]

Purely from a design point of view, are we hoping for something along the lines of this (http://www.fantasyshop.gr/gallery/wh-stratoi%20white-lion-art.jpg) for the White Lions?

Sorry about the size. If anyone can find a bigger version of that artwork, I'd be a happy bunny.

That'd be nice. Different placement for the lion head though. Shoulder > Helm. =/

[Yavvy]

How many of you find the concept of a half-naked Dark Elf girl wielding knives having the potential to deal more melee damage than a tall, muscular High Elf woodsman wielding a two-handed battleaxe, if the two were to fight one another face-to-face, more than a little insulting?

We'd never hear the end of it. "The High Elf beefcakes need a big white -cat to contend with the Dark Elf girls". :sad:Because men should always beat women? Or HE beat DE?

The WL would have spent alot of time training the lion, while the WE was training her own skills. Its a MMORPG, Chosen can't be nearly invincible and HEs can't be the best at everything.

As for the SW, he could use shadows as scouts / de/buffs, instead of the animals that Revolutionomni suggested. But I still think WLs would be cooler with pets than SWs :rolleyes:

Oh, and judging by what I've seen in WoW, a melee pet class is wanted :P

[Smachaz]

Because men should always beat women? Or HE beat DE?

The WL would have spent alot of time training the lion, while the WE was training her own skills. Its a MMORPG, Chosen can't be nearly invincible and HEs can't be the best at everything.


No no no... it just feels that a big lumberjack should be able to do at least as much damage on his own then a little witch.

[VeriusCarth]

Because men should always beat women? Or HE beat DE?

Hardly that, but I guess you can take in there if you want:

The circumstance being, one is an elf with a huge axe, the other is a daintily skinny elf with two daggers.

What do you think would hit harder? I know you can go into details about, "Well, if the dagger strikes here, or here..." then it's a little different, but from a straight stand-point of slashing as something... I'm thinking that the inertia and weight of a huge battle axe is probably going to hurt more. >.>
(And thus, it'd be odd if the WL was significantly weaker than the WE, because he's got a lion instead. =/)

[Godynial]

Hardly that, but I guess you can take in there if you want:

The circumstance being, one is an elf with a huge axe, the other is a daintily skinny elf with two daggers.

What do you think would hit harder? I know you can go into details about, "Well, if the dagger strikes here, or here..." then it's a little different, but from a straight stand-point of slashing as something... I'm thinking that the inertia and weight of a huge battle axe is probably going to hurt more. >.>
(And thus, it'd be odd if the WL was significantly weaker than the WE, because he's got a lion instead. =/)

You seem to forget the fact that, those "skinny elves with two daggers" are mad with bloodlust and those two toothpicks they wield are coated with poisons. Now the odds seem a bit more even, don't you think? :rolleyes:

[VeriusCarth]

You seem to forget the fact that, those "skinny elves with two daggers" are mad with bloodlust and those two toothpicks they wield are coated with poisons. Now the odds seem a bit more even, don't you think? :rolleyes:

I mentioned that you could take it that way, but I'm talking straight one-hit damage. Besides, the bloodlust doesn't do anything except make them more reckless. :P

Not factoring in the DoT poison, you'd expect the axe to hit harder, wouldn't you? However, yes, the poisons would indeed balance them out. Like I said though, as far as flat damage goes, it'd be odd if the White Lion (who has no sort of poison) couldn't even keep up with a WE who's just using daggers.

[Aethelbeorht]

Like I said though, as far as flat damage goes, it'd be odd if the White Lion (who has no sort of poison) couldn't even keep up with a WE who's just using daggers.

You'd think, wouldn't you? Unfortunately, when it comes to MMOs, logic is not as important as balance. Otherwise, the game would be mostly one-shotting, because as far as damage goes, you really aren't going to have much of a chance of surviving being hit by a huge axe... and if you do survive, it's only because you got 'lucky' and lost one of your limbs instead.

I do agree with you, though. It would be rather disappointing if the DPS was less in a straight auto-attack comparison.

[Chilltouch]

Witch Elves also have the same role as huge, lumbering barbarians imbued so much with the power of the Gods that they have bonesaw arms.
Chosen need an ungodly ammount of armour to live up to the same strength as the plate-wearing Knights of the Blazing Sun.
Magi need a huge disc of doom to match the engineers in mortal combat.
Warrior Priests are equal to feather-wearing, skull waving, dagger wielding lunatics.

It's going by cool factor here. Elven lumberjacks with lion pets are cool. Hot blood-drenched babes with daggers dripping poison are cool.

As for lion pets...

During Tier 1, you get a quest chain to ascend to true White Liondom. It involves tracking a White Lion, luring a White Lion, stalking a White Lion and maybe as the final quest, killing the White Lion, bringing back its pelt and its cub. The pelt is fashioned into a cloak, the cub reaches adolescense and becomes a powerful companion and it serves by your side when Tier 2 begins.
Tier 2: White Lion adolescent. Hasn't got its mane yet, not the biggest beasty ever.
Tier 3: Fully grown White Lion. It's got its mane, it looks rather impressive. Grats.
Tier 4: Mighty White Lion. It's absolutely f'in' massive and epic looking. Although I guess the impressiveness would get old after a while, when you see thousands of guys running around with kitted out lions.

And while they may take the "Magus Disc" road for White Lions, if they're in, they might also take the "Witch Hunter Hat" road for White Lions. They get one when they reach T2!

[Destcaz]

Witch Elves also have the same role as huge, lumbering barbarians imbued so much with the power of the Gods that they have bonesaw arms.
Chosen need an ungodly ammount of armour to live up to the same strength as the plate-wearing Knights of the Blazing Sun.
Magi need a huge disc of doom to match the engineers in mortal combat.
Warrior Priests are equal to feather-wearing, skull waving, dagger wielding lunatics.

It's going by cool factor here. Elven lumberjacks with lion pets are cool. Hot blood-drenched babes with daggers dripping poison are cool.

As for lion pets...

During Tier 1, you get a quest chain to ascend to true White Liondom. It involves tracking a White Lion, luring a White Lion, stalking a White Lion and maybe as the final quest, killing the White Lion, bringing back its pelt and its cub. The pelt is fashioned into a cloak, the cub reaches adolescense and becomes a powerful companion and it serves by your side when Tier 2 begins.
Tier 2: White Lion adolescent. Hasn't got its mane yet, not the biggest beasty ever.
Tier 3: Fully grown White Lion. It's got its mane, it looks rather impressive. Grats.
Tier 4: Mighty White Lion. It's absolutely f'in' massive and epic looking. Although I guess the impressiveness would get old after a while, when you see thousands of guys running around with kitted out lions.

And while they may take the "Magus Disc" road for White Lions, if they're in, they might also take the "Witch Hunter Hat" road for White Lions. They get one when they reach T2!
Adding to this idea, they could also allow you to customize your lion a bit, maybe put some trophies onto it. Just to help lessen the 'all the lions are the same!!!' factor.

[Revolutionomni]

Adding to this idea, they could also allow you to customize your lion a bit, maybe put some trophies onto it. Just to help lessen the 'all the lions are the same!!!' factor.

Good thinking. ;)

[Thorval]

Whether we get a lion or not, I still don't think it's really neccesary for Order to have a pet class. But really, all I want is white lions to be in the game, if they don't make it in for some reason... i will be mad >: (

[Konrad Siegesruf]

Aye, seriously, freaking Elves wielding big big big axes, and pelts of white lions over their shoulders!

[Terridan]

I agree. White lions have always been my favorite unit from TT. It'd be a real shame to not get a chance to play one. I'll take it, pet or no.

[Kaid]

Would you really want to get some or maybe even alot of your DPS from a creature that could die? Because if the pet is actually worth it then people might pick off the Lion to make you deal out less damage.

[Aeldor]

Would you really want to get some or maybe even alot of your DPS from a creature that could die? Because if the pet is actually worth it then people might pick off the Lion to make you deal out less damage.


You mean tactics? In an MMO?

Never.

[Aethelbeorht]

Would you really want to get some or maybe even alot of your DPS from a creature that could die? Because if the pet is actually worth it then people might pick off the Lion to make you deal out less damage.

I forget where it was, but somewhere, someone posted an idea: When the pet dies, the character goes berserk for a brief period of time, doing a lot more damage.

[Gemini]

Would you really want to get some or maybe even alot of your DPS from a creature that could die? Because if the pet is actually worth it then people might pick off the Lion to make you deal out less damage.

If you were right, all pet classes with a half-useful pet would fail msireably, and probably have been erased from the genre completely. Clearly they havn't, so it must work somehow, eh?

[Thorval]

You know what would be cool? If you could get armor for your lion also. I mean you could have just some plain looking white lion... or you could have it in SHINY GOLD ARMOR with RUBIES embedded all over the armor pieces. That would just add more to the uniqueness factor of the game.

[wellsy]

You know what would be cool? If you could get armor for your lion also. I mean you could have just some plain looking white lion... or you could have it in SHINY GOLD ARMOR with RUBIES embedded all over the armor pieces. That would just add more to the uniqueness factor of the game.

Braiding (getting more elaborate as you level up) - yes. Armour - no.

'Nuff said.

[Estebar]

Braiding (getting more elaborate as you level up) - yes. Armour - no.

'Nuff said.

I'm not liking the idea of my Tier 4 lion pet having hair like this (http://k43.pbase.com/u8/glenneroo/large/32924135.rasta_braids.jpg) just because he gets more braids as he levels up.

I would expect some battle armour at Tier 4. Nothing so elaborate that its encrusted with rubies, but I couldn't see them silver as it wouldn't combine well with the whiteness of the lion's fur and mane, so they might go with some gold and blue/red trimming.

I imagine they'd go for a dragon-wing style helmet in a similar design to the eagle-wing helmets on the Elven steeds. (Examples 1 (http://uk.games-workshop.com/highelves/miniature-gallery/2/), 2 (http://uk.games-workshop.com/highelves/miniature-gallery/6/)) and, of course, the designs on the Dragon Prince steeds (http://uk.games-workshop.com/highelves/miniature-gallery/9/), unless they come up with some kind of lion designs. Also, maybe some leg guards and even something protecting the mid-section.

[wellsy]

They're lions Estebar. LIONS. They don't wear armour. Of any kind. I mean, that just stupid.

Braiding I can see (that pic you posted is forbidden), to a certain extent. But armour is just wrong.

Its as simple as that to me.

[Aeldor]

In the natural world horses don't wear armour. Yet we humans have tamed them to a point we can force it upon them. No reason that a lion should be any differant.

I personally hope to god there is no armour for lions, i think it would look ridiculous. I just feel the above point needed to be made.

[Grrblt]

Lion in armor (http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/b/batlecat.jpg)
decide for yourself if it's cool or not

[Estebar]

Lion in armor (http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/b/batlecat.jpg)
decide for yourself if it's cool or not

Oh...my...god! wellsy, look! But...that's...just impossible! They're lions! LIONS! They don't wear armour! And yet...I can see... arrrrrgh it's just too much for me to handle! *stabs out own eyes in disbelief*

I can't see how people can think that the progression of a battle lion should be measured in how much its mane and beard is braided. So, an animal trained for battle would look stupid with some kind of protection strapped on (remember that you only get the one lion, not several types of pets, so it needs to survive), but it would look absolutely kick- with some braids in its hair, so by Tier 4 it would look like this? (http://owlhaven.net/braids002.JPG)

Yeah, that's real bad-, guys. And practical too. As if High Elves didn't have enough going on already to make them look like pansies, they have to fix their pretty kitty-cat's hair after every battle now as well?

[Vikingkingq]

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-10/426395/hechariotnk9.jpg

- I dunno, looks pretty cool to me.

[Estebar]

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-10/426395/hechariotnk9.jpg

- I dunno, looks pretty cool to me.

Yes, but one chin braid isn't going to differentiate between four different tiers of lion.

Also, notice the armour on the lion's mid-section...I realise it's required to connect the chariot to them...but...wellsy, they're lions, right? LIONS. They don't pull chariots or wear harnesses! Of any kind.

That's just stupid. Right, wellsy? ;)

[Rizal]

I dunno if this has been mentioned...but what about riding said Lion at a later tier?

[Yavvy]

I dunno if this has been mentioned...but what about riding said Lion at a later tier?
As mount, ofc :)

[Estebar]

I dunno if this has been mentioned...but what about riding said Lion at a later tier? Doubt it would look dignified enough. Very bumpy ride, I'd imagine.

[Fusko]

I don't think it would make much sense for White Lions to be pet classes. They should be the melee dps, and I guess mythic could bend the lore, if theres really anything to bend that is, on shadow warriors and give them hawks or something like that.

[Aeldor]

I don't think it would make much sense for White Lions to be pet classes. They should be the melee dps, and I guess mythic could bend the lore, if theres really anything to bend that is, on shadow warriors and give them hawks or something like that.

I have two problems with this as an idea.

1. That would make Shadow warriors EVERY other ranger class since time began.
2. There is far more lore allowing lions as pets than there is for Shadow Warriors to get one. Shadow Warriors just do not use animals.

[Fusko]

I have two problems with this as an idea.

1. That would make Shadow warriors EVERY other ranger class since time began.
2. There is far more lore allowing lions as pets than there is for Shadow Warriors to get one. Shadow Warriors just do not use animals.

I suppose you have a point there. Perhaps it wouldn't be too bad having a melee pet class for a change. It would be something out of the ordinary.

[Paintbrush-WHA]

What if they change up the classic "pet class" idea with the High Elves. Maybe introduce a class that does not have a static pet all the time, but rather one that can be summoned when needed. This may allow White Lions (for example) to come off as a more believable pet class. Say they can summon a spectral white lion (I don't know, the ghost of the one they've slain) for 3 minutes, with a 5 minute cooldown. Or maybe remove the cooldown, and make it a "permanent pet" that must be summoned after it dies, and when you enter an instanced zone (Scenario, Instanced PvE encounter, etc). Maybe make it only summonable after the White Lion reaches a certain amount of morale. Making it so he has to be engaged in combat in order to use the skill. If I were to introduce a loose comparison.. think of the Dark Avenger from Lineage II. They had a "pet", but it wasn't really a static pet. *Shrug* Just my idea.

In your opinions, if Mythic did something different with the HE pet class to make it more "believable", what would they have to change?

[wellsy]

Oh...my...god! wellsy, look! But...that's...just impossible! They're lions! LIONS! They don't wear armour! And yet...I can see... arrrrrgh it's just too much for me to handle! *stabs out own eyes in disbelief*

I can't see how people can think that the progression of a battle lion should be measured in how much its mane and beard is braided. So, an animal trained for battle would look stupid with some kind of protection strapped on (remember that you only get the one lion, not several types of pets, so it needs to survive), but it would look absolutely kick- with some braids in its hair, so by Tier 4 it would look like this? (http://owlhaven.net/braids002.JPG)

Yeah, that's real bad-, guys. And practical too. As if High Elves didn't have enough going on already to make them look like pansies, they have to fix their pretty kitty-cat's hair after every battle now as well?

1 - That looks rediculous (not to mention its a tiger, not a lion). And I never said it was impossible. Just stupid.

2 - You can accept that braiding a main works. Armour doesn't. Letting it grow as you level (suggested earlier) and then braiding it when you hit the highest levels of the game would work (going overboard with braiding would also be stupid).

3 - The lion doesn't need armour. If it requires an elf to be S4 to be able to kill it in close combat, as well as a lot of skill not to get your head ripped off as you go hunting, then armour becomes superfluous anyway.

4 - I said they'd look rediculous in armour. A harness is acceptable. Armour is not. And if you can't tell the difference between them, you should pull that pen out of your eye.

And Paintbrush, we did canvass the possibility of a summoner class earlier in the thread. However, I think its pretty much been settled since the release of the Archmage that the HE pet class won't be magically orientated in terms of the pet.

As for your question, what exactly do you mean by believable? We've all been discussing ideas on how the White Lion with a pet lion would work in with the lore over the course of this thread, and speculating how it would work within the game itself as well. I think we've agreed that in terms of lore, the White Lion is the easiest to make a pet class, due to the fact that hunting their namesakes is a trial to obtain the title of White Lion, and thus it isn't far to stretch it that they can get a pet lion (as a cub) and train it to aid them in battle, etc, etc, etc.

[Paintbrush-WHA]

My question was not posed toward the White Lions in particular. It was asking, if Mythic decided to change up the idea of a stereotypical "pet class" for HE, what kind of things would they need to change to make it both a viable pet class archetype and believable as it pertains to the High Elf lore (loose example: you can't really give Silver Helms a sabre-tooth tiger and expect Warhammer fans to be sold, for example.)

[Kaeldor]

And Paintbrush, we did canvass the possibility of a summoner class earlier in the thread. However, I think its pretty much been settled since the release of the Archmage that the HE pet class won't be magically orientated in terms of the pet.



Why not? They said also that all elf classes use some kind of magic, so they could have the shadow warrior use shadow magic to summon a temporary ally or something like that. But actually I hope it won't be the shadow warrior, because it would be kind of nice to have a plain archer class.

A temporary ally would be still better though than having a permanent one. I have no idea for a good implementation though.

(Thanks for more HE avatars Painbrush :D)

[Terridan]

My question was not posed toward the White Lions in particular. It was asking, if Mythic decided to change up the idea of a stereotypical "pet class" for HE, what kind of things would they need to change to make it both a viable pet class archetype and believable as it pertains to the High Elf lore (loose example: you can't really give Silver Helms a sabre-tooth tiger and expect Warhammer fans to be sold, for example.)

Good question. It's clear that the Swordmasters use some kind of blade magic, or at least a form of magic that focuses on their weapons. Archmages are pretty obvious, and now we have the last two.

Now then, let's say they pick Shadow Warriors as range DPS and a pet class. True, they could give them a hawk, bird, pigeon, wolf... we get the idea. We also have pretty much agreed that it's somewhat out of character for them, if not entirely lore breaking. What if they, instead, focused on a pet that wasn't something tangible, but instead a literal shadow. Their focus could go away from helping with damage to more of a debuffer; something truly more etheral than tangible. "Pet" would just help simplify how to describe it and how you control it, but even that might be a misnomer. And haven't shadow warriors been described with some sort of shadow magic in previous editions, or am I mistaken? But if they wanted to give Shadow Warriors some kind of pet then there is this option.

Now then let's assume White Lions for melee DPS. Clearly, the new chariot model for TT implies that they do a lot more with the Lions than slaughter them and take their pelts for a cloak. This would seem to help the fact that White Lions have a very strong case for having an actual pet with them. Estebar also pointed out another big thing regarding White Lions and their abilities. Short of hitting people with really big axes (two thumbs up from me btw :mrgreen:) and their cloaks, there's not a lot to make them unique gameplay wise. To use their magic in this example, it could be used to help tame and communicate with the Lion on some level, to form some kind of "bond." Maybe you could share hit points with them, maybe they'll help maul someone for you, maybe Mythic will make some really cool combo attacks between the elf and the lion, or they could even just be there as some sort of animal spirit to help empower the elf himself.

Just tossing around some ideas, but this could help focus the last two classes with some sort of magical ability while still keeping them as A: pet class, and B: fitting their archtype.

[Aeldor]

Shadow warriors in Mordheim have access to a certain character called a shadow weaver. Basically he has a lot of shadow based spells with which he aids the warriors.

[Aethelbeorht]

Shadow warriors in Mordheim have access to a certain character called a shadow weaver. Basically he has a lot of shadow based spells with which he aids the warriors.

That seems to pave the way for SW abilities, but unless those spells involve summoning up shadows as minions, it doesn't exactly give SWs as a pet class much to go on.

[kizen]

As long as shadow warriors don't get a pet black panther, who happens to be named Guenhwyvar (I love Drizzt, and all of his novels, but people need to leave him alone, and not keep ripping him off.

I do like the idea of of the pet on cool down though, where it can only be summoned to battle every 5 minutes, or perhaps even make it so it uses up hate, or what ever happens to be the classes special.... using more could possibly increase the duration the pet stays at your side.

I haven't kept up with this thread much since page 3 or so, but with the new addition of the White lions on the chariot in the TT game, it would seem they have the capabilities to tame animals. Furthermore, the shadow warriors usually travel in small groups. (I guess this point could be used the other way as well, supporting that them having a pet could possibly counter their weakness of independence).

[wellsy]

Why not? They said also that all elf classes use some kind of magic, so they could have the shadow warrior use shadow magic to summon a temporary ally or something like that. But actually I hope it won't be the shadow warrior, because it would be kind of nice to have a plain archer class.

A temporary ally would be still better though than having a permanent one. I have no idea for a good implementation though.

(Thanks for more HE avatars Painbrush :D)

The High Elves already have their full-magic class - the Archmage.

I doubt they'd get a second one just to act as a pet class.

However, whether or not the lion itself is tangible, we'll just have to wait and see (you're right; all Asur use magic. But I meant that there wasn't going to be another pure magic class with the summoned pet)

[roadkizzle]

I think all he meant with the shadow warriors having shadow pets, is that they would be archers, but would also use shadow magic only for buffs, or to summon a pet.

[PlagueLord]

I think most people will agree that the 2 remaining HE classes will be White Lions and Shadow Warriors... just wondering what yall think, which of the two is more likely to be the pet class? I think it's White Lions, simply because Shadow Warriors as a pet class would be lame, considering that there is already an archer/pet class (Squig Herders).

white lions as a pet class would be equally lame..they kill the lions not befriend them...i wish i was making this game because everything is just wrong lol.

[mongoose]

white lions as a pet class would be equally lame..they kill the lions not befriend them...i wish i was making this game because everything is just wrong lol.

Ah yes, people posting in threads without actually reading them :rolleyes:

If you had taken the time to read the thread you would have known that this "issue" has been worked out quite rationally and logically. Im not going to find the info this time, you have to do your own reading ;)

[Yavvy]

white lions as a pet class would be equally lame..they kill the lions not befriend them...i wish i was making this game because everything is just wrong lol.
This has already been discussed.

The WLs tame lions to pull chariots (TT model coming), so there's no reason they couldn't train them to fight as well.

[justsomeguy]

If I had a lion, I'd train it to fight sooner than I would to pull a chariot. I think the elves kinda missed the ball on that one.

A Melee DPS class plus pet would be far more interesting than another ranged DPS class plus pet that we have seen already. Plus, an elf with a bow that had to rely on speed and movement would be more fun to play than one that relied on his pet keeping a target busy.

[Jest]

One could really use the chariot to argue both sides of the White Lions for HE Pet Class debate. Because actually, the Lion Chariot is not necessarily specifically for the White Lions. It began as a conversion, and is now being released as kit, but it's just a High Elf chariot being pulled by lions that are white lions from Chrace. Players can choose to put White Lions figures in the Chariot I guess, but that is somewhat lore-breaking (and possibly rule breaking, more on that later.) The fact they're white lions does not mean the Order of the White Lions has anything to do with their taming, it's just a stylized variation of a boring ol' chariot.

Btw, I'm an advocate for the White Lions being the HE pet class, just clearing up that chariot thing. ;)

As for the lore, the White Lions traditionally do not ride into battle, they walk. Since their beginnings from the days of Caledor the First, they have done this. Even Korhil, their Captain, is prohibited from using a mount/chariot in the TT. Just a side note.

That's what really inspired my idea for a "new" kind of pet class for the White Lions (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18268). Since it is somewhat inconsistent with their lore to give them trained lions, I thought of a way to kill two birds with one stone (giving them a pet and staying with the lore). The outcome was lion "spirits" for lack of a more descriptive term, of the lions they had to slay. I think it's a much cooler idea than just giving them a static lion to run around with, but seeing how Mythic has handled some other careers thus far, I wouldn't be surprised if they just bend the lore and give them a live lion. Would suck if that's the case, but what are ya gonna do. :|

[Aeldor]

In the chariot the people that are riding it are also White Lions (the class not the animals) so despite any arguments of it being lore breaking, this is the new lore!! In this new lore the White Lions (class) can mount a chariot. That is all.

This happens in Warhammer a lot, what was once lore, is now not, and what once broke every rule is now commonplace. You don't seem to understand that? I know you like your other idea, but disregarding any idea but that simply because it doesnt agree with old lore seems like an odd argument.

[Isidril93]

I doubt that there will even b a white lion cos they would play a lot like the swordmaster and can not have a pet (the white lion is a creature mutated by chaos found in the Annuli Mountains and since it is affected by chaos is pure evil, so no High Elf would use it).
There might b a class such as a commander, a standard character, not special in anything, just an all-rounder.
but i think there would b a shadow warrior. there was that small story on the wh online website about them.

[Aeldor]

Have you actually read any of the topic above?

Its already been ascertained that in the new High Elf Army Book White Lions can be seen utilising a chariot pulled by lions. This, while not proving the class will be used, at least lends credance to the idea. Saying 'no high elf would use it' is therefore proven false. This has been discussed.....

As for playing like a white lion. Thats like saying a mage plays like a shaman. Sure, they both use magic right? However their methods are differant. A melee DPS class and a high damage tank wll always play similarly, however with differant skills,attacks and armour types things will diverge.

[Konrad Siegesruf]

I doubt that there will even b a white lion cos they would play a lot like the swordmaster


White Lion is suggested for Melee DPS, Swordmaster is Tank.

[Jest]

In the chariot the people that are riding it are also White Lions (the class not the animals) so despite any arguments of it being lore breaking, this is the new lore!! In this new lore the White Lions (class) can mount a chariot. That is all.

Actually the new High Elf chariot comes in many variations. Players can choose to go with White Lions, but it is not an exclusive White Lions chariot. I've seen the same chariot with Tiranoc Elves in it.

The lore is up for debate, since there are instances in the lore where White Lions are prohibited from "riding" into battle. The simple fact is, the White Lions chariot is not a solid argument for the inclusion of tamed White Lions.
The Elves you mention, in the chariot are wearing Lion cloaks, but that could just be a wargear option (it's available). Since they are wielding a spear and bow, I tend to consider them just regular Elves that have been given the cloak for stylized reasons. As White Lions units use battleaxes.

You don't seem to understand that? I know you like your other idea, but disregarding any idea but that simply because it doesnt agree with old lore seems like an odd argument.Oh, I understand it perfectly, but what you don't seem to understand is that I am not saying the Chariot argument is invalid, but rather, not solid enough to say that tameable white lions are 100% possible. As you said yourself, the lore is not set in stone, and up for debate. I am not disregarding any ideas, only stating that they cannot be used to state the 100% probability of something. If there's one thing I'm informed on, it's the lore of the White Lions.

Regardless, the Chariot argument is not strong enough to confirm or deny the possibility of tameable white lions, and should only be used as speculation of the possibility. That's all I'm saying. ;)

[Vikingkingq]

Actually the new High Elf chariot comes in many variations. Players can choose to go with White Lions, but it is not an exclusive White Lions chariot. I've seen the same chariot with Tiranoc Elves in it.

The lore is up for debate, since there are instances in the lore where White Lions are prohibited from "riding" into battle. The simple fact is, the White Lions chariot is not a solid argument for the inclusion of tamed White Lions.
The Elves you mention, in the chariot are wearing Lion cloaks, but that could just be a wargear option (it's available). Since they are wielding a spear and bow, I tend to consider them just regular Elves that have been given the cloak for stylized reasons. As White Lions units use battleaxes.

Oh, I understand it perfectly, but what you don't seem to understand is that I am not saying the Chariot argument is invalid, but rather, not solid enough to say that tameable white lions are 100% possible. As you said yourself, the lore is not set in stone, and up for debate. I am not disregarding any ideas, only stating that they cannot be used to state the 100% probability of something. If there's one thing I'm informed on, it's the lore of the White Lions.

Regardless, the Chariot argument is not strong enough to confirm or deny the possibility of tameable white lions, and should only be used as speculation of the possibility. That's all I'm saying. ;)

Nope. The new Elf Army Book has two different chariot units, that can be built from the same sprue. One's the existing Tiranon Chariot, the other is the White Lion Chariot, which hits harder but I think moves slower.

People should check out asur.org's forums on this issue.

[Aeldor]

Nope. The new Elf Army Book has two different chariot units, that can be built from the same sprue. One's the existing Tiranon Chariot, the other is the White Lion Chariot, which hits harder but I think moves slower.

People should check out asur.org's forums on this issue.

Indeed i have, and it was the one that has White Lion soldiers riding it that i was referring to :P If i somehow suggested that nowadays chariots are the sole province of Chrace I apologise. It is said however on that site that the people riding the White Lion chariot are White Lions (Damn i wish they had differant names).

Like you say, this in no way proves anything, but to me it does dismiss the argument of 'no they ONLY kill them, that breaks lore'

We shall have to see :)

Im just crossing my fingers that we Brit's will finally get given something and get told the last classes at Games Day. Finding it unlikeley though :(

[Jest]

Nope. The new Elf Army Book has two different chariot units, that can be built from the same sprue. One's the existing Tiranon Chariot, the other is the White Lion Chariot, which hits harder but I think moves slower.

People should check out asur.org's forums on this issue.

Okay, okay, but thats not much different from what I said. I said there was a choice from the same kit. Which is what you said, essentially. ;P

Remember now, I'm not stating the chariot argument to be invalid, just not solid enough to use to confirm/deny the notion of tameable white lions as the HE White Lions pets in WAR. It's enough to suggest the notion, but not confirm it. I will never be caught saying "NO! They only kill them!" I am not that black & white in my perception of their lore. Far from it! I just think the lore is a bit too "grey" to determine for sure one way or the other. I think it's probably better to let people regard it with their own ideas until the new HE Army Book is released and we *hopefully* get some more information.

But, hey, maybe it's just my inner bias speaking. Personally, I tend to feel the existence of tameable white lions (the animals) kind of cheapens the White Lions (the Elves) lore. If the lions of Chrace are able to be tamed, it kind of makes the ritual of slaying one in hand to hand combat not as special, y'know? Sure they could still be ferocious, but the whole idea that they were so ferocious as to be un-tameable was pretty meaningful, at least to me. :)

[Aeldor]

Yeah i must be honest I am of two minds with regards the Lion Chariot. On the one hand, it looks pretty good, and there is a certain charm in the idea of two huge lions pulling your war machine. On the other hand, as you have said, its not much of an achievement to singlehandedly kill a domestic cat. If these lions can be easily tamed then killing one suddenly becomes so much less than it was before. I'm not a huge fan of the White Lions as a class, far more into the ranged sorts, but this would...lessen them somehow.

[wellsy]

Hmmm... maybe you're all letting the taming thing get the better of you. Why don't I put it this way:

The White Lions (animals) are dangerous. Extremely so. Killing one is an act of great courage, skill and patience. Taming one would be an even greater act of courage, skill and patience.

So, the lions are still tough as bloody nails, but taming them is one step beyond killing something (its a lot more effort).

And I needn't point out that in RL, even tamed lions are carnivorous animals, and are known to have turned on their tamers in the past. Taming them doesn't make lions less dangerous; it just lets you (in this case) direct that danger at the enemy.

[Yavvy]

Remember now, I'm not stating the chariot argument to be invalid, just not solid enough to use to confirm/deny the notion of tameable white lions as the HE White Lions pets in WAR. It's enough to suggest the notion, but not confirm it.Then we might as well stop talking of everything that hasn't been revealed yet :rolleyes:

[Jumpe]

white lions as a pet class would be equally lame..they kill the lions not befriend them...i wish i was making this game because everything is just wrong lol.

Pet =/= Befriend
They could just be somewhat tamed harsh looking lions on leashes. But wouldn't really make sense that the white lions would drag the lions with them.

Just give no pet for HE and give beastmaster for DE instead!

[Garwin Graves]

I'll cross my fingers for White Lion for you guys too. My enjoyment of watching High Elves suffer aside; a melee pet class would be quite refreshing, unique, and interesting to see.

[Jest]

Then we might as well stop talking of everything that hasn't been revealed yet :rolleyes:

But that wouldn't be nearly as fun! :)

[Isidril93]

Have you actually read any of the topic above?

Its already been ascertained that in the new High Elf Army Book White Lions can be seen utilising a chariot pulled by lions. This, while not proving the class will be used, at least lends credance to the idea. Saying 'no high elf would use it' is therefore proven false. This has been discussed.....

As for playing like a white lion. Thats like saying a mage plays like a shaman. Sure, they both use magic right? However their methods are differant. A melee DPS class and a high damage tank wll always play similarly, however with differant skills,attacks and armour types things will diverge.

do u collect warhammer?
there is something called a conversion!
a steed doesnt mean anything! anyone could just find a lion and stick it on!
do u even have the HE book?!

[Isidril93]

And if the online game has anything 2 do with the models then im not sure which is faster, a white lion or a swordmaster. WL hv less armour but swordmasters hv the SWORDMASTERS rule which allows them 2 strike in initiative order.
It also says that the actual lions r mutated by chaos and HE r against chaos.

[Isidril93]

white lions as a pet class would be equally lame..they kill the lions not befriend them...i wish i was making this game because everything is just wrong lol.
Completely right.

[Vikingkingq]

do u collect warhammer?
there is something called a conversion!
a steed doesnt mean anything! anyone could just find a lion and stick it on!
do u even have the HE book?!

The upcoming 7th Edition book features a White Lion Chariot as a specific unit. Not a conversion, but as a unit, with its own stat line and rules that are different from the Tiranoc chariot.

[Aeldor]

do u collect warhammer?
there is something called a conversion!
a steed doesnt mean anything! anyone could just find a lion and stick it on!
do u even have the HE book?!

Goodness child read the whole thread before you make stupid comments. As i have posted a number of times, in the new upcoming High Elf army book, released in the next couple months, there is a new plastic kit. This plastic kit enables a person to make EITHER a White Lion chariot, complete with lions pulling it, OR an ordinary tiranoc chariot.

I assure you I have a High Elf army, and have played them for over a decade, I am not making stuff up, merely going on current ideas.

Please think, and gain knowledge on the entirity of the discussion, before you comment. It makes things much more civil.

[mongoose]

And if the online game has anything 2 do with the models then im not sure which is faster, a white lion or a swordmaster. WL hv less armour but swordmasters hv the SWORDMASTERS rule which allows them 2 strike in initiative order.
It also says that the actual lions r mutated by chaos and HE r against chaos.

also please please PLEASE spell your words out completely, this forum is not a phone, blackberry or even IMing. We use full words here for everyday words like: two, have, and are. There are some acronyms that are acceptable like MMO terms and Warhammer abbreviations but the rest should be completely spelled out so its easier to read for everyone ;)

[Terridan]

It also says that the actual lions r mutated by chaos and HE r against chaos.


Sheesh, don't check the forums for a couple days and this thread is still going. :confused:

Anyway, just to reply to this little specific part... I think only ONE white lion (the cat) was mentioned to have been tainted by Chaos, and that's the one that Korhil himself killed.

Could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the others are just lions that are native to Charce. Vicious, powerful, most certainly dangerous, and probably tame but not something you'd have with the kids around, but still a natural animal.

On the nature of beasts formed by Chaos, I'm pretty sure that gryphons are another creatuer formed from Chaos, and I can think of one pretty notable high elf who had one for a mount. :)

[Isidril93]

Goodness child read the whole thread before you make stupid comments. As i have posted a number of times, in the new upcoming High Elf army book, released in the next couple months, there is a new plastic kit. This plastic kit enables a person to make EITHER a White Lion chariot, complete with lions pulling it, OR an ordinary tiranoc chariot.

I assure you I have a High Elf army, and have played them for over a decade, I am not making stuff up, merely going on current ideas.

Please think, and gain knowledge on the entirity of the discussion, before you comment. It makes things much more civil.

well if thats true then GW r messing everything up...they kill white lions not just as a sport but 2 show that they r strong...if they can raise them 2 bear chariots then y do they even kill it...they'd might as well make it into a pet than a cloak.

and anyway where did they get all this info from...on the website of GW all it shows is a few pictures??

and if GW r really letting HE use lions im happy (cos i collect them) but still think its stupid.

im not sure if griffons r actually made from chaos because they r found in the empire also and korhils lion was 4sure mutated by chaos but i think the others hv had contact with chaos but not THAT MUCH. maybe its because they r in contact with chaos it makes them harder 2 kill nad so it is a greater honour killing one

[Amehnas]

well if thats true then GW r messing everything up...they kill white lions not just as a sport but 2 show that they r strong...if they can raise them 2 bear chariots then y do they even kill it...they'd might as well make it into a pet than a cloak.

and anyway where did they get all this info from...on the website of GW all it shows is a few pictures??

and if GW r really letting HE use lions im happy (cos i collect them) but still think its stupid.

im not sure if griffons r actually made from chaos because they r found in the empire also and korhils lion was 4sure mutated by chaos but i think the others hv had contact with chaos but not THAT MUCH. maybe its because they r in contact with chaos it makes them harder 2 kill nad so it is a greater honour killing one

hw old r u? 14? l2write

it's no wonder GW requires that the tournament participants are age 16 or older. I get their policy now.

[MalakLP]

White Lions or Pheonix Guard = Melee DPS

White lions, with pets would own. However, picture the White lions concept art....Isnt that enough to get a "HOLY THATS COOL"?? I mean come on, they are badass with or without a pet.

A Pheonix Guard would definately be badass to see. You have Malekiths personal guards, the Blackguard ... vs the Pheonix Kings personal guards, The Pheonix Guard. Thats Two decked out warriors in sick looking armor weilding halberds of insane power? One with darkness energy and the other with the power of a Pheonix(fire).
If i was playing said class, i definately would run up to my rival class and take him out first just to say. IM the better "Guard!" :lol: haha


Adding another caster of HE would benefit the race more then hurt it. For instance a Seer that could use a pet.

Seer

The lores of magic hold no surprises for this Mage. Countless hours of painstaking study mean that no spell of worth has escaped his keen eye, giving him a clearer understanding and near control over the forces of magic.

Now, i know the archmages are able to use pretty much all types of magic and said to be some of the smartest and most powerful of high elves, but they are still healers. There so "smart and powerful" because they know how to use magic for the good of their people(to fight or to protect). However, you take a Seer for instance who has almost full control of all forces of magic, wouldn't that mean you could manifest a creature of said element? I mean you practically can control it?

EXAMPLE
I think Summoning a bull made of stone, a phoenix(fire), fox/wolf for wind(fenrir type from ff?), and water dragon or something would definately be unique and fit this type of mage. You would get another caster, which i think the high elves desperately need and also a semi pet class. You have the choice to summon that elements manifestation, and by doing so you increase that elements current effectiveness? I dunno, like you summon the bull made of stone and you have knockdown type nukes and an earthquake-like aoe. Take the phoenix out and your fire is increased. Single target damage pet maybe? Take out the wind pet and you have your debuffer and then summon up your water creature and you gain multiple group buffs and some snares.

I dunno..i think it would be kinda cool? Especially the stone bull :D, send that thing in to ram your target and knock it down, does a loud roar and then slams his hind legs into the ground doing the aoe?

Oh god..here i go again with my ideas ...Hope you enjoyed em!? lol

[Vikingkingq]

well if thats true then GW r messing everything up...they kill white lions not just as a sport but 2 show that they r strong...if they can raise them 2 bear chariots then y do they even kill it...they'd might as well make it into a pet than a cloak.

and anyway where did they get all this info from...on the website of GW all it shows is a few pictures??

and if GW r really letting HE use lions im happy (cos i collect them) but still think its stupid.

im not sure if griffons r actually made from chaos because they r found in the empire also and korhils lion was 4sure mutated by chaos but i think the others hv had contact with chaos but not THAT MUCH. maybe its because they r in contact with chaos it makes them harder 2 kill nad so it is a greater honour killing one

I found this: http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-10/426395/hechariotnk9.jpg

On Asur.org's thread about the upcoming HE Army Book.

And there's nothing stupid about it. White Lions don't kill lions because they hate them, they kill them because they respect them as a symbol of strength. Putting them to service in war fits perfectly in line with that - why not use an animal you consider to be the strongest to fight the enemy?

[kizen]

Actually the Phoenix's king personal guard are the white lions, not the Phoenix Guards. ;)

The thing about phoenix guards are... they are not allowed to talk because they know when people die, etc.

But, I do agree they would be cool as a class, but too many people would be up in arms about lore breaking etc.

[Vikingkingq]

White Lions or Pheonix Guard = Melee DPS

White lions, with pets would own. However, picture the White lions concept art....Isnt that enough to get a "HOLY THATS COOL"?? I mean come on, they are badass with or without a pet.

A Pheonix Guard would definately be badass to see. You have Malekiths personal guards, the Blackguard ... vs the Pheonix Kings personal guards, The Pheonix Guard. Thats Two decked out warriors in sick looking armor weilding halberds of insane power? One with darkness energy and the other with the power of a Pheonix(fire).
If i was playing said class, i definately would run up to my rival class and take him out first just to say. IM the better "Guard!" :lol: haha

Phoenix Guard would be cool, except that they'd be coming in as Melee DPS and not tanks, which would be somewhat strange. However, the objection that most have given is that you wouldn't be allowed to talk, which is hard to get around.


Adding another caster of HE would benefit the race more then hurt it. For instance a Seer that could use a pet.

Seer

The lores of magic hold no surprises for this Mage. Countless hours of painstaking study mean that no spell of worth has escaped his keen eye, giving him a clearer understanding and near control over the forces of magic.

Now, i know the archmages are able to use pretty much all types of magic and said to be some of the smartest and most powerful of high elves, but they are still healers. There so "smart and powerful" because they know how to use magic for the good of their people(to fight or to protect). However, you take a Seer for instance who has almost full control of all forces of magic, wouldn't that mean you could manifest a creature of said element? I mean you practically can control it?

EXAMPLE
I think Summoning a bull made of stone, a phoenix(fire), fox/wolf for wind(fenrir type from ff?), and water dragon or something would definately be unique and fit this type of mage. You would get another caster, which i think the high elves desperately need and also a semi pet class. You have the choice to summon that elements manifestation, and by doing so you increase that elements current effectiveness? I dunno, like you summon the bull made of stone and you have knockdown type nukes and an earthquake-like aoe. Take the phoenix out and your fire is increased. Single target damage pet maybe? Take out the wind pet and you have your debuffer and then summon up your water creature and you gain multiple group buffs and some snares.

I dunno..i think it would be kinda cool? Especially the stone bull :D, send that thing in to ram your target and knock it down, does a loud roar and then slams his hind legs into the ground doing the aoe?

Oh god..here i go again with my ideas ...Hope you enjoyed em!? lol

I think the problem with Seers is that they would be too much of a copy of Archmages in their visual profile, which is something that Mythic has been trying to avoid, and in gameplay - why do you need the two forms of casters, who despite being able to cast from all winds of magic, can't do the same thing as the other?

Moreover, such a choice would box out any High Elf bow-using class, which would be very odd indeed for a race that's supposed to have some of the best archers in the world.

[MalakLP]

Actually the Phoenix's king personal guard are the white lions, not the Phoenix Guards. ;)

The thing about phoenix guards are... they are not allowed to talk because they know when people die, etc.

But, I do agree they would be cool as a class, but too many people would be up in arms about lore breaking etc.

Yes, your right. confused them with something else, woops :D. The Pheonix Guards are actually the warrior monks who watch over the shrine and are "always" present at the death of a pheonix king. They kind of are like the "silent guards". They appear at the death of the king and also when a knew one is chosen. They are there immediately to escort him to the Shrine of Asuryan where he is reborn into the new Pheonix King
Incase anyone is confused or does not know why the Pheonix Guards are known as the "warriors who shall not speak", continue reading.
The secret behind the unnatural silence lies in the Chamber Of Days, a secret room whose walls blaze with words of flame, written on the naked walls themselves. These tell the histories of all the Phoenix Kings who have ever lived, and also those who are yet to come. It foretells the death of each, and their successors and predecessors. Any who gaze upon these terrible words must swear a magical oath of complete silence from which they can never be released. This knowledge of their fate wipes away any joy or other expressions from these warrior priests, their faces set instead in grim expressions of doom. In battle, they can always be found where the fighting is in its most desperate state, knowing in advance if they shall fall or if they shall be victorious.


...id so play one over my Warrior Priest, if that was an option. But i think the white lion "WITHOUT the pet" will be the melee dps and another caster will make its way into the range dps slot. Thats what i hope, atleast. I want to roll up a white lion of chrace as an alt..atleast sometime in the near future heh

[MalakLP]

Now that i think about it, the seer idea probably wasnt that great of one for say Warhammer :(, maybe well see it in a future game hah.

Moreover, such a choice would box out any High Elf bow-using class, which would be very odd indeed for a race that's supposed to have some of the best archers in the world.

However, I strongly disagree with you on this one. When i think of elves and bows i think of WooD elves, not high elves. Example: Glade Riders and Glade Guards/Scouts, and the elite Waywatchers. All of which are examples of "the best archers in the world" and they just happen to be Wood Elves. Warhammers Wood Elves were inspired by Tolkiens Elves of "mirkwood and lothlorien", which just so happen to be the A++ archers. Kind of like Legolas? he was from mirkwood. So with a bit of reading and personal opinion , to me WooD elfs take the "best archers in the world" award and the High Elves take the "Masters of Magic". I mean...look at the swordmaster? He has amazing swordsmanship and an affinity towards magic, because they are High Elf. They just so happen to be the protectors of mages and scholars, not archers :D. I mean, check out that Swordmaster video lol. If the High Elves were so big on archery, im pretty sure he would have a crossbow attachment on his wrist or something :D, but all i saw was a magic sword and very "magic like" looking finesse skills.


i guess we will just have to wait and see. I really would like to see another caster though.

[Vikingkingq]

Now that i think about it, the seer idea probably wasnt that great of one for say Warhammer :(, maybe well see it in a future game hah.

However, I strongly disagree with you on this one. When i think of elves and bows i think of WooD elves, not high elves. Example: Glade Riders and Glade Guards/Scouts, and the elite Waywatchers. All of which are examples of "the best archers in the world" and they just happen to be Wood Elves. Warhammers Wood Elves were inspired by Tolkiens Elves of "mirkwood and lothlorien", which just so happen to be the A++ archers. Kind of like Legolas? he was from mirkwood. So with a bit of reading and personal opinion , to me WooD elfs take the "best archers in the world" award and the High Elves take the "Masters of Magic". I mean...look at the swordmaster? He has amazing swordsmanship and an affinity towards magic, because they are High Elf. They just so happen to be the protectors of mages and scholars, not archers :D. I mean, check out that Swordmaster video lol. If the High Elves were so big on archery, im pretty sure he would have a crossbow attachment on his wrist or something :D, but all i saw was a magic sword and very "magic like" looking finesse skills.

i guess we will just have to wait and see. I really would like to see another caster though.

I didn't say that they were "the" best, only that they were "some" of the best - not only do the Archer core units attest to the fact that all Asur learn how to use the bow, but there's also the Lothern Sea Guard as one of the iconic High Elf units - spearmen/archers who epitomise skill and flexibility - and the Shadow Warriors, master guerrilla warriors.

[Amehnas]

Well, the Empire has caster as range damage dealer class, dwarfs have engeneers that use gunpowder and technology so the Order now is missing and Archer archetype class to fulfill the last slot. Not having a class that uses bow & arrow as primary way of dealing dmg for the order side is not very likely to happen imo. So that's one logical reason to include the Shadow Warriors in the HE lineup. The second one is their iconic status as well in the TT, and imho having an archer class that can also use shadow magic will be refreshing and welcome change from the classic arhcer stereotype we meet nowadays in the everday MMO / RPG.

[MalakLP]

Well, the Empire has caster as range damage dealer class, dwarfs have engeneers that use gunpowder and technology so the Order now is missing and Archer archetype class to fulfill the last slot. Not having a class that uses bow & arrow as primary way of dealing dmg for the order side is not very likely to happen imo. So that's one logical reason to include the Shadow Warriors in the HE lineup. The second one is their iconic status as well in the TT, and imho having an archer class that can also use shadow magic will be refreshing and welcome change from the classic arhcer stereotype we meet nowadays in the everday MMO / RPG.

I do like the idea of a shadow warrior as the Range DPS slot, and yes i can kind of see your point when it might be a good idea to have a bow user on order since they have a caster and gunpowder class. However, as long as they dont do what some of these people here want with making them the pet class i would be ok with them as the range DPS. I guess all i can say is, i wont be to worried if they finally do announce the class as the shadow warrior. They are sticking to lore, therefore we would still get some more magic with the HE. It would be nice to see, like you said, a change in the archer stereotype.

[Isidril93]

i think that it would be a type of mage, with magic like the archmage but a different type, either more defensive (healing, upgrading and helping friends) or more offensive (fireballs, thunder etc...)

[Isidril93]

[quote=Aeldor;483983]Goodness child

y the hell do u say that...u sound like an old man....
im just givin my opinion...thats wat a forum is 4...how old r u 70?

[Amehnas]

I do like the idea of a shadow warrior as the Range DPS slot, and yes i can kind of see your point when it might be a good idea to have a bow user on order since they have a caster and gunpowder class. However, as long as they dont do what some of these people here want with making them the pet class i would be ok with them as the range DPS. I guess all i can say is, i wont be to worried if they finally do announce the class as the shadow warrior. They are sticking to lore, therefore we would still get some more magic with the HE. It would be nice to see, like you said, a change in the archer stereotype.

Making the Shadow Warrior a pet class is much more lore breaking than making the White Lion pet class. I'm gonna stick to the refreshing part, and add that melee damage dealer along with pet can lead to nice new approach on close combat and nice and interesting mechanics. It can lead to needed yet balanced diversity between Order and Destruction by enabling both factions to have pet class yet with different approach when designing them. So far the Squig Herder seems different enough from the bow + pet standard MMO classes, however I fear that if they make the SW pet class he is more prone to fall into the stereotype instead of breaking it. Many people here said and backed up their theory with many facts that the lore for White Lions to get a White Lion pet has already been laid out in some way by GW and therefore imho it's much more logical and likely to happen... at least I hope so. So in conclusion I completely agree with you.

[MalakLP]

Making the Shadow Warrior a pet class is much more lore breaking than making the White Lion pet class. I'm gonna stick to the refreshing part, and add that melee damage dealer along with pet can lead to nice new approach on close combat and nice and interesting mechanics. It can lead to needed yet balanced diversity between Order and Destruction by enabling both factions to have pet class yet with different approach when designing them. So far the Squig Herder seems different enough from the bow + pet standard MMO classes, however I fear that if they make the SW pet class he is more prone to fall into the stereotype instead of breaking it. Many people here said and backed up their theory with many facts that the lore for White Lions to get a White Lion pet has already been laid out in some way by GW and therefore imho it's much more logical and likely to happen... at least I hope so. So in conclusion I completely agree with you.

You seem to know your stuff. Which, is totally awesome. I am kind of jealous of you. I, am a noob when it comes to Warhammer TT and like 80% of the warhammer lore. My interest in Warhammer started with 40k. I fell in love with how the Empire works and the race known as, the Eldar. Even the stuff mentioned about the Chaos was amazing. When i first heard about warhammer online i thought it was going to be based around 40k. At first i was disappointed, but then realized wait a minute...THERE IS SO MUCH i do not know about Warhammer's Lore and this game just looks and sounds amazing. With that being said, i quickly tried to read up on the lore over the course of like 4-5 months. Wow is that a lot to take in. I really envy some of you guys who have known about this since the beginning or a few years.(5,10,etc).

Ok, with that aside here i go. I'm glad you agree with me on the Shadow Warrior needing to "not" be the pet class. And since all Archtypes seem to have a secondary role they fill, would you agree that the Shadow Warrior would be Range DPS/Support ? or Range DPS/Melee DPS? When i think of a Shadow Warrior i think of the 2nd choice, however does that seem like it would be too hard to balance? I am sure they could do a good job on it, but i just have this weird feeling people would hate them because they are ALL DPS, saying its not fair or w/e. I dunno, again just a thought. As for the White Lion, do they absolutely need an actual white lion as a pet? I mean, we are talking about HE here. Is it not possible for the HE to , after he slays the white lion and takes its pelt, put some kind of magical enchantment on it to where he has the power to summon a "Spirit" of the lion?" I don't see how that would be breaking lore or a lot of it, they are not actually taming the thing they kill for their name. I kind of think it would be interesting, and like you said add a new approach to pet classes. When i think of White Lions possibly being the Melee DPS and maybe the pet class as well, i kind of think of Dark Avengers from L2 only...not tanks, but DPS and a lot cooler. Fighting up close with your pet makes it seem a lot more fun then the traditional Range+Pet=Class. I have always hated pet classes for this reason. I can picture a situation with a White Lion and his Lion Spirit(the pet) where he is chasing down an enemy. The White Lion is fast, but there is a lot of distance to close, therefore he sends the Spirit at his target. The Lion Spirit then pounces on it to stun/snare/immobilize it. This allows time for the White Lion to begin dishing out some nasty skills and some Combination attacks with his lion spirit. See whats different here? Its no longer the Hunter/Ranger/Player doing the snare so he can kite and have his pet constantly damage the target, its the completely other way around. The pet does the initial stun/snare/immobilize/etc and then the player closes in to fight. I think it adds a whole new feel towards a pet class and honestly, might be so cool, where i choose to play one over my WP. Any thoughts?

[Vikingkingq]

You seem to know your stuff. Which, is totally awesome. I am kind of jealous of you. I, am a noob when it comes to Warhammer TT and like 80% of the warhammer lore. My interest in Warhammer started with 40k. I fell in love with how the Empire works and the race known as, the Eldar. Even the stuff mentioned about the Chaos was amazing. When i first heard about warhammer online i thought it was going to be based around 40k. At first i was disappointed, but then realized wait a minute...THERE IS SO MUCH i do not know about Warhammer's Lore and this game just looks and sounds amazing. With that being said, i quickly tried to read up on the lore over the course of like 4-5 months. Wow is that a lot to take in. I really envy some of you guys who have known about this since the beginning or a few years.(5,10,etc).

Ok, with that aside here i go. I'm glad you agree with me on the Shadow Warrior needing to "not" be the pet class. And since all Archtypes seem to have a secondary role they fill, would you agree that the Shadow Warrior would be Range DPS/Support ? or Range DPS/Melee DPS? When i think of a Shadow Warrior i think of the 2nd choice, however does that seem like it would be too hard to balance? I am sure they could do a good job on it, but i just have this weird feeling people would hate them because they are ALL DPS, saying its not fair or w/e. I dunno, again just a thought. As for the White Lion, do they absolutely need an actual white lion as a pet? I mean, we are talking about HE here. Is it not possible for the HE to , after he slays the white lion and takes its pelt, put some kind of magical enchantment on it to where he has the power to summon a "Spirit" of the lion?" I don't see how that would be breaking lore or a lot of it, they are not actually taming the thing they kill for their name. I kind of think it would be interesting, and like you said add a new approach to pet classes. When i think of White Lions possibly being the Melee DPS and maybe the pet class as well, i kind of think of Dark Avengers from L2 only...not tanks, but DPS and a lot cooler. Fighting up close with your pet makes it seem a lot more fun then the traditional Range+Pet=Class. I have always hated pet classes for this reason. I can picture a situation with a White Lion and his Lion Spirit(the pet) where he is chasing down an enemy. The White Lion is fast, but there is a lot of distance to close, therefore he sends the Spirit at his target. The Lion Spirit then pounces on it to stun/snare/immobilize it. This allows time for the White Lion to begin dishing out some nasty skills and some Combination attacks with his lion spirit. See whats different here? Its no longer the Hunter/Ranger/Player doing the snare so he can kite and have his pet constantly damage the target, its the completely other way around. The pet does the initial stun/snare/immobilize/etc and then the player closes in to fight. I think it adds a whole new feel towards a pet class and honestly, might be so cool, where i choose to play one over my WP. Any thoughts?

Not all classes are hybrids. Engineers/Squig Herders/Bright Wizards/Magi - all Ranged DPSers; they don't heal or support, they do ranged DPS.

However, a Shadow Warrior would most likely have the most melee capability of the ranged careers, given their predilection for bows AND swords. I could see a lot of ambush then charge kind of combat.

And the pet as spirit has been suggested in this thread: http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18268

[Aeldor]

[quote=Aeldor;483983]Goodness child

y the hell do u say that...u sound like an old man....
im just givin my opinion...thats wat a forum is 4...how old r u 70?

I said it because you write like a child. If you choose to take it as an insult that is your problem not mine.

[Enkmar]

I like the sound of melee DPS White Lions with pet lions. Like someone else mentioned, a melee pet class is something unavailable in WAR, so it'd be new. New is good.

I like the sound of Shadow Warrior's being the ranged dps role without pets. If you want to play an archer pet class, play the Squig. And if you want to play an archer class without the pets, play the Shadow Warrior.

I think it pairs up with the lore pretty well while also offering more variety amongst the classes.

[Aeldor]

I agree with you completely. I think it would be a huge disservice to the High Elves as a whole if a class was made up to be the pet class when one with such potential CAN exist with a little imagination. This isn't done often in an mmo, a melee pet would be a big pull, and as i've said before it could do many differant things.
As for Shadow Warriors, make them how they are in the TT, superlative scouts, with deadly ranged combat skills. A mechanic whereby they gain damage for how long they stalk you before attacking, maybe a way of masking themselves; whatever, something similar would make it a beautiful class to play.

[MalakLP]

Not all classes are hybrids. Engineers/Squig Herders/Bright Wizards/Magi - all Ranged DPSers; they don't heal or support, they do ranged DPS.

However, a Shadow Warrior would most likely have the most melee capability of the ranged careers, given their predilection for bows AND swords. I could see a lot of ambush then charge kind of combat.

And the pet as spirit has been suggested in this thread: http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18268

Ya i guess, even though i would class the squig herder has Range DPS/Freaky Pet because they do have tricks with the squig that are definately not your typical Range DPS :D

[Aeldor]

Just got back from Games Day uk. Managed to read through the new High Elf army book while i was there so i could look up the new fluff on White Lions. It is now thus.

Not all White Lions are killed out of hand by the hunters of Chrace. The Asur are not ones for wanton slaughter. If a cub, or young lion is found, it will be taken into captivity, and raised in such a way that it is not so violent and agressive. Basically catching them before they become vicious killing machines, and raising them right, almost domesticating them. Of course, if one is left to be raised in the wild naturaly, it becomes a danger, and is stalked by the chracian hunters. (Not directly quoted, but the jist of it)

This new fluff really spoke to me, and now i'm becoming more and more sure that the pet class will be the White Lion. Maybe you will kill a Lion on your pelt quest and capture its cub, maybe a differant mechanic.


The game is coming along brilliantly btw from what i managed to see. It looks really clean, plays relatively smoothly, and is great fun!

As for High Elves in the TT if anyone is interested, there are some beautiful new models, including mages, princes, dragon mages, dragon princes, shadow warriors and chariots. Also the entire army gains the 'Always strike first ' rule. No need to charge anymore, let your opponent come to you.

[Revolutionomni]

Not all White Lions are killed out of hand by the hunters of Chrace. The Asur are not ones for wanton slaughter. If a cub, or young lion is found, it will be taken into captivity, and raised in such a way that it is not so violent and agressive. Basically catching them before they become vicious killing machines, and raising them right, almost domesticating them. Of course, if one is left to be raised in the wild naturaly, it becomes a danger, and is stalked by the chracian hunters. (Not directly quoted, but the jist of it)

This new fluff really spoke to me, and now i'm becoming more and more sure that the pet class will be the White Lion. Maybe you will kill a Lion on your pelt quest and capture its cub, maybe a differant mechanic.

There ya have it, White Lions are the pet class! I guess I saw it coming and it's good to know they wrote something into the lore for it. ;) Now for more info on the Shadow Warriors! :twisted:

[Gemini]

Obviously that dosn't absolutely confirm that it will be White Lions, but makes an awefully strong arguement, much stronger than I have heard for other "guess the elf classes", when combined with the other arguements.

[Fusko]

Awesome possum, I greatly hope for this class!

*crosses fingers*

[mongoose]

The best thing about this is we will know for sure in less than a week, regardless of which one of the High Elf classes they decide to show us. We might not know EXACTLY what the other class will be but we WILL know if it will get a pet or not.

[Estebar]

The best thing about this is we will know for sure in less than a week, regardless of which one of the High Elf classes they decide to show us. TWO DAYS. :-P

[Gaazruk]

TWO DAYS. :-P
Cant...Wait....Any....Longer... Going....Mad...

[mongoose]

TWO DAYS. :-P

Ah yes thats very true! I didnt take the weekend into account. So we will either find out today or more likely tomorrow. :cool:

[Willstar]

My personal preference...

Neither. No pet classes. Think of something new to quit the pets man! A squig herder MAKES SENSE! A White Lion with a lion cub... hells, I can already hear the dwarfs chanting, 'If a measlah pointah aerh caen down a wee whisker like dat, then so can we by Gromnir!'

And you know what, they'd be right, too.

An archer with a pet. Say, where is this done as well? Yeah, I'll leave the many ANSWERSSSSS up to you guys.

[Konrad Siegesruf]

William, i would prefer no pet classes for High Elves too, but it seems that EA Mythic(Where's the link though?) have said that the Order pet class will be a High Elf...

[Willstar]

Fair enough, fair enough. I know that it was hinted at, or even told in serious. But I'm still a bit thrown off by it. Shame really that every game always has to have a pet class. I really was hoping for a bit of originality here.

[Yavvy]

Fair enough, fair enough. I know that it was hinted at, or even told in serious. But I'm still a bit thrown off by it. Shame really that every game always has to have a pet class. I really was hoping for a bit of originality here.A melee pet class WOULD be original.

[Reddimus]

A melee pet class WOULD be original.
I agree. It would also end the whole 'I'm better than you, of course there's going to be mirrors of every class for both sides' argument. Something to break the mold finally.

[wis]

A Chracian High Elf kills a fierce female White Lion in hand to hand combat, then skins it and wears the pelt on the back while taking one of the cubs as a pet?.. Look at me young whiskers im wearing your mothers pelt on my back.. and now we venture out to do battle with my axe and your claws... We will triumph.. Im serving in the bodyguard of the Phoenix King and i can't do melee combat well enough so i need a pet before i can overcome my enemies... How puny is that?

Talking about degenerate the fiercest Warriors in Ulthuan to weaklings.. and who says that the White Lion you kill is a female? As far as i know the male lions are the strongest and most ferocious.

A Shadow Warrior with somekind of shadow sprite sounds a lot more awesome.

[Yavvy]

A Chracian High Elf kills a fierce female White Lion in hand to hand combat, then skins it and wears the pelt on the back while taking one of the cubs as a pet?.. Look at me young whiskers im wearing your mothers pelt on my back.. and now we venture out to do battle with my axe and your claws... We will triumph.. Im serving in the bodyguard of the Phoenix King and i can't do melee combat well enough so i need a pet before i can overcome my enemies... How puny is that?

Talking about degenerate the fiercest Warriors in Ulthuan to weaklings.. and who says that the White Lion you kill is a female? As far as i know the male lions are the strongest and most ferocious.

A Shadow Warrior with somekind of shadow sprite sounds a lot more awesome.I'm quite certain this has already been discussed in this thread. I'll summarize.

1. If you're implying the cub should be angry at you killing its parent, that isn't how animals work. Bad stuff happened, but you survived, and you'll do what you can to stay alive. You'll forget your "real" parent, as the WL is the one taking care of you he becomes the parent (the capes might actually make this easier - familiar scent).

2. Its not that he can't fight without it - its that he chooses to fight with it, for extra power. Goblins can manage perfectly well without Squigs, so why make the Squig Herder?

3. It wouldn't have to be a female lion you killed. The cub might as well be with a male, or found all alone after you killed the lion.

4. Taming a fierce lion shows alot more courage than, say, backstabbing someone.

5. Ranger with pet has been done to death.

[Fusko]

Looks like we won't know for sure for, what, another 3 months?


*head asplodes*

[mongoose]

Looks like we won't know for sure for, what, another 3 months?


*head asplodes*

Yep, we got royally stiffed in this newsletter.

Spreading the last 4 careers out over the NEXT 4 months (not counting this one) is......lame.

[Faltina]

To the people saying giving a melee-centric class a pet would make it overpowered...

Have you not played other games with pet classes before? In most Mmorpgs the classes with pets have to SPEC something to make their pets worthwhile.

Balancing it wouldn't be as hard as you're making it out to be; simply make the pet sub-par IF the White Lion goes more for melee-stuff... OR... make the pet stronger if he goes down the pet path, but in doing so he misses out on some melee stuff for himself.

I'm hopeful that White Lions are the pet class as if they are I plan on rolling one for sure...

[roadkizzle]

I don't think that people are necessarily worried that the class will be overpowered. The problem that I've been reading about is that white lions are supposed to be some of the most powerful elves in the land, and a symbol of their strength is their ability to take down a White Lion unarmed. According to the fluff, if we have a white lion with a white lion pet, then they would each be more powerful than a single character. But, to balance them, they would have to be about half as powerful as a single character each. That is being a disgrace to the White Lion though.

[Gemini]

I don't think that people are necessarily worried that the class will be overpowered. The problem that I've been reading about is that white lions are supposed to be some of the most powerful elves in the land, and a symbol of their strength is their ability to take down a White Lion unarmed. According to the fluff, if we have a white lion with a white lion pet, then they would each be more powerful than a single character. But, to balance them, they would have to be about half as powerful as a single character each. That is being a disgrace to the White Lion though.

Yeah, that is one of those things that have to be sacrificed for the MMO, we've seen many other examples of that already. Not to say it's an invalid argument, but if a goblin who can barely pull back his puny bow can take out an Ironbreaker(recent reports say the Herder does about the same damage with or without the pet), or a lowly Marauder going toe-to-toe with an Archmage, than we can probably make the White Lions on par with the others.

[roadkizzle]

Oh, I fully agree, I don't think that it is a big problem, I was just trying to say that is the most often voiced complaint.

[Vikingkingq]

I don't think that people are necessarily worried that the class will be overpowered. The problem that I've been reading about is that white lions are supposed to be some of the most powerful elves in the land, and a symbol of their strength is their ability to take down a White Lion unarmed. According to the fluff, if we have a white lion with a white lion pet, then they would each be more powerful than a single character. But, to balance them, they would have to be about half as powerful as a single character each. That is being a disgrace to the White Lion though.

They're supposed to be the physically strongest of the Asur. Not the most powerful, not the most skilled, the physically strongest. Swordmasters have the skill, Archmages have the power. White Lions get two-handed axes.

[nWe]

I think most people will agree that the 2 remaining HE classes will be White Lions and Shadow Warriors... just wondering what yall think, which of the two is more likely to be the pet class? I think it's White Lions, simply because Shadow Warriors as a pet class would be lame, considering that there is already an archer/pet class (Squig Herders).I highly doubt that Shadow Warrior will be a pet class.
White lion might be a pet class, but I wouldn't bet my balls on it. But it would be really neat to be one of the first or maby the first game to have a melee pet class.

I think it will be like this:

Ranged dps: Shadow warrior
Melee dps: (maby petclass) White Lion

[Smachaz]

Looks like we won't know for sure for, what, another 3 months?


*head asplodes*

Well, next Newsletter unveils 1 Elf Career and the Elven Zone of Chrace...so I'm guessing White Lions will be the next Career.