A Question about Harbringers

[Of_the_Gods]

I know how the system works, but does anyone know that when an enemy is affected by the harbinger, and he leaves the ritual area does the harbringer leave him? And also if the ritual is already on the ground if someone walks into it will they become affected by the harbringer?

[Crazy ol' dude]

I know how the system works, but does anyone know that when an enemy is affected by the harbinger, and he leaves the ritual area does the harbringer leave him? And also if the ritual is already on the ground if someone walks into it will they become affected by the harbringer?
It's actually the old system, no longer actual :) now harbinger and rituals are kinda separate spells
Ritual - you put it on the ground, ANY enemy who is/will come in it's range gets affected by ritual's effects
Harbinger - instant cast single-target debuff, it makes your target to deal 25% less damage to you, and your rituals are 25% more effective against that person. only one person at the time can be affected by your harbinger. Harbinger debuff lasts 1 minute.

You can click on "Abilities&Morale" in my signature and read on "Impending Doom" spell, and any of the rituals. I also advise you to watch RvR vid(s) if you have time to get a clear view on the current Habringer/Ritual system ;)

I guess you already know what i mean, but just to clarify things:
Any person who enters ritual area, gets affected by its effects. Any person who was within the ritual area and leaves it, is no longer affected by its effects ;)

(it's all as for now - 25.8.07, this can all change before release)

[Auku]

It's actually the old system, no longer actual :) now harbinger and rituals are kinda separate spells
Ritual - you put it on the ground, ANY enemy who is/will come in it's range gets affected by ritual's effects
Harbinger - instant cast single-target debuff, it makes your target to deal 25% less damage to you, and your rituals are 25% more effective against that person. only one person at the time can be affected by your harbinger. Harbinger debuff lasts 1 minute.

You can click on "Abilities&Morale" in my signature and read on "Impending Doom" spell, and any of the rituals. I also advise you to watch RvR vid(s) if you have time to get a clear view on the current Habringer/Ritual system ;)

I guess you already know what i mean, but just to clarify things:
Any person who enters ritual area, gets affected by its effects. Any person who was within the ritual area and leaves it, is no longer affected by its effects ;)

(it's all as for now - 25.8.07, this can all change before release)

So you can easily just walk out of a ritual circle and get "un-debuffed."

[Gemini]

So you can easily just walk out of a ritual circle and get "un-debuffed."

Sure, but if you were in the circle in the first place, you probably had a good reason to be their, like, I dunno... attacking people? You could walk away, but that might not be the best idea.

[Crazy ol' dude]

Sure, but if you were in the circle in the first place, you probably had a good reason to be their, like, I dunno... attacking people? You could walk away, but that might not be the best idea.
Indeed. Just imagine:
An Empire scum stands in point A, you put down a Ritual. Now rituals have quite big range and can hurt sometimes, so he decides to move to point B and you within a second - put down a ritual there. Then he moves to point C, you put there a ritual, he's probably dead now. Why?
When he's moving A->B->C he does nothing except, well, moving and casting instants maybe...as he's running to different points to avoid rituals, you and maybe other people just beat the crap out of him, so he dies...of course same will go for groups of people who stay together - they'll suffer from doing nothing but running and zealot can put another ritual in their destination point anyway
Rituals cost 60 AP, which regens itself during the casting, so for the Zealot it's almost nothing.

Running from ritual's range may indeed not be a good idea :)

BUT the problem is when there're too few zealots to put rituals and the enemy group spreads out...they can still put rituals on the ground near them and wait for melee to come in anway :) 3 empire classes are melee, and we got good protection against BWs so it's not really a big problem

[Axxar]

What's a har and how do you bring it to someone?

[BadTouch]

What's a har and how do you bring it to someone?

i believe a har is a harbinger which affects the targets... as for the harbinger which i think is a debuff (dont quote me on that im not too sure) i think the harbinger is a second spell to only the enemy with the debuff... i might be wrong but i think that is it.

[Perp]

I know how the system works, but does anyone know that when an enemy is affected by the harbinger, and he leaves the ritual area does the harbringer leave him? And also if the ritual is already on the ground if someone walks into it will they become affected by the harbringer?

To the OP:

This is the second thread you've created instead of reading this forum for the information. Please stop posting useless threads with questions that you wouldn't be asking if you did a little reading.

[silex]

I have not been too impressed with the ritual sizes from the recent RvR videos. Quite small.

Because of this, I have a nagging fear that rituals (and thus Zealots) are not going to be effective in high end Group vs. Group open field situations, which will mostly likely be the most common type of PvP encounter. I hope they adequately balance all of this. I really envisioned this class to be a walking Thornweed Field dispenser and those small rituals aren't going to cut it.

[Gemini]

I have not been too impressed with the ritual sizes from the recent RvR videos. Quite small.

Because of this, I have a nagging fear that rituals (and thus Zealots) are not going to be effective in high end Group vs. Group open field situations, which will mostly likely be the most common type of PvP encounter. I hope they adequately balance all of this. I really envisioned this class to be a walking Thornweed Field dispenser and those small rituals aren't going to cut it.

If ya ask me, it dosn't need to be very large. If you are your tank or anyone else seem to be the main melee target, just plant the ritual right there and make them choose. Switch to a less vital target, or suffer the debuff. Plus the size is all relative really, we'll have to see how it plays out in game. Maybe your right, but I'm sure Mythic will take steps to correct that during beta or at least after release if you are correct.

[Throwhemon]

I have not been too impressed with the ritual sizes from the recent RvR videos. Quite small.

Because of this, I have a nagging fear that rituals (and thus Zealots) are not going to be effective in high end Group vs. Group open field situations, which will mostly likely be the most common type of PvP encounter. I hope they adequately balance all of this. I really envisioned this class to be a walking Thornweed Field dispenser and those small rituals aren't going to cut it.

well lets put it this way. yo're in a RvR senario and you have a few tanks with melee dps plus your ranged dps, you drop a ritual that debuffs all in the radius ontop of your melee group. the enemy is going to do one of two things, thier goning to A) stay in and make the healers deal with the debuff, or B) run back to get out of the ritual. if they choose A then you keep fighting normaly, if they choose B on the other hand then you can have your tanks stay in the radius of the ritual blocking people from getting past them while your ranged dps pecks at them and it becomes a ranged battle. and thats only giving your group one zealot, multiple zealots mean multiple rituals. lets say you drop a Ritual that heals your party and damages your enemy and the other zealot drops one that reduces your enemy's power while boosting your groups, now your enemy is doing less damage and thier targets are getting a constant stream of heals makeing it alot easyer to keep your group up AND your enemy is takeing more damage from both your guys plus your ritual's damage effect.

used in the right combination things like rituals can be deadly. plus for anyone that might want to question a zealot's solo life let me remind you that he is a support class and is ment to cripple the enemy while boosting your allys.

[Valentino]

Also, dont forget that there will be some scenarios that take place inside. If the hallways are narrow enough, you might be able to create a really effective blockade with a ritual and a tank to stop them running.

[silex]

Guys, as I said earlier, I'm not talking about how rituals are going to be with chokepoints involved. We all know that Zealots are going to really shine at chokepoints. Everyone on this board has already had many a wetdream about dropping nasty rituals in front of a chokepoint and watching an enemy zerg try to struggle and get through it. Well, at least I have. Maybe that's just me.

My concern here is over Zealots in high end Group vs. Group open field situations - much like DAOC 8v8 - not chokepoints and indoor hallways and the like. Thornweed Field is so useful in DAOC because the area it encompasses is huge. It shuts a major part of the battlefield down in an open field fight when it is used. But if TWF had the size of these rituals - it'd be crap. No one would spend points to get it.

[Throwhemon]

Guys, as I said earlier, I'm not talking about how rituals are going to be with chokepoints involved. We all know that Zealots are going to really shine at chokepoints. Everyone on this board has already had many a wetdream about dropping nasty rituals in front of a chokepoint and watching an enemy zerg try to struggle and get through it. Well, at least I have. Maybe that's just me.

My concern here is over Zealots in high end Group vs. Group open field situations - much like DAOC 8v8 - not chokepoints and indoor hallways and the like. Thornweed Field is so useful in DAOC because the area it encompasses is huge. It shuts a major part of the battlefield down in an open field fight when it is used. But if TWF had the size of these rituals - it'd be crap. No one would spend points to get it.

my post covers this, you'll have your melee standing in one or two rituals while your ranged are behind them. if they try to flank your ranged runs to the melee for cover and then once a line is drawn they move back.

[silex]

my post covers this, you'll have your melee standing in one or two rituals while your ranged are behind them. if they try to flank your ranged runs to the melee for cover and then once a line is drawn they move back.

I guess I don't understand. 1 or 2 heavy tanks standing in a field aren't going to block anything via collision detection and if you clump your entire group up inside of one of these small ritual circles, AE attacks will annihilate you.

Perhaps the small ritual circles I saw were specific to one or two powerful rituals only. That could be OK. But they were extremely puny looking... judging from character runspeeds, it looked as if it would take about 2 or 3 seconds to walk across the diameter.

[Throwhemon]

I guess I don't understand. 1 or 2 heavy tanks standing in a field aren't going to block anything via collision detection and if you clump your entire group up inside of one of these small ritual circles, AE attacks will annihilate you.

Perhaps the small ritual circles I saw were specific to one or two powerful rituals only. That could be OK. But they were extremely puny looking... judging from character runspeeds, it looked as if it would take about 2 or 3 seconds to walk across the diameter.

it could be that the ritual graphic is smaller then the accualy radius of the affected area. your also thinking to small, maybe your baseing all your judgements on scenarios. High-end RvR will be faught in the RvR zones and not just the scenarios so your going to have alot people fighting at once, lets say 30v30 maybe, and because of this the field is going to be littered with rituals and if people are organized and smart they will fight in the rituals when they go group vs group.

alot of posts im seeing revolve around scenarios instead of World RvR and alot of you need to realize this isnt going to be like WoW were world pvp is dead and useless, its going to be a lush forest of bloodshed.

[silex]

Despite not being a WoW player, Group vs. Group is still what concerns me the most though.

I agree with you about the zerg combat, though. This class is going to really excel in large battles and at chokepoints due to the rituals being able to effect many more players all at once. There were many classes like this in DAOC - good in zerg situations, not so good in 8v8 situations. I'll be curious to see where the Zealot ends up.

[Crazy ol' dude]

I imagine zealot will be good for not-zerg, small battles - that's why we can see in recent vids that rituals range was reduced.

That's good imo. For zerg battles you'll actually need a group of zealots who should coordinate and create a network of rituals debuffing the enemy to the ground level, chanting dark words, blessing their allies with the will of Change, turning into dust pathetic heretics by the name of Tze..

>_>'

<_<'

.....what?

Besides, 3 of empire careers are melee so they'll have to come to you if you stay in group in rituals areas. BWs can AoE, yes, but we're anti-casters, we're there to not let them to by any possible means, i guess we'll get some spells/tactics needed for it...and i imagine Magus' will have a few tricks to help us with it ;)
I guess there'll be arguments like "But what about when people playing HE/Dwarf Aoers come to Chaos front, huh? HUH?!" and the answer is -> it won't happen too often, will it? And even if they will come or there'll be a siege, look at my point about zealots being anti-casters and magus' tricks again :)
And you can always spread out if things will complicate, then your melee will charge enemies and then [insert 5 pages long speculation about possible tactics and strategies here and then acknowledge it'd be quite useless if Mythic actually change minor things in mechanics, thus ruining you effort ;p]

[Throwhemon]

I guess there'll be arguments like "But what about when people playing HE/Dwarf Aoers come to Chaos front, huh? HUH?!" and the answer is -> it won't happen too often, will it? And even if they will come or there'll be a siege,


you seem to be under the belife that in lower tiers there wont be alot of same faction different race RvR, there will be. I dont know how easy it will be but every player can go to another races 1st tier and RvR if they want.

[Crazy ol' dude]

you seem to be under the belife that in lower tiers there wont be alot of same faction different race RvR, there will be. I dont know how easy it will be but every player can go to another races 1st tier and RvR if they want.
People will go to to other fronts, because:
a) they have friends playing there
b) they're bored in their own battlefront
c) they like X battlefront more than their own

I'm 100% aware that there'll be people who because of one of these reasons will come to our battlefront, but i also think that we'll see many many more WPs than Archmages, and many many more BWs than engineers on our front and so on :) besides some faction conflicts like sieges etc.

So i'm aware we'll meet other AoErs (and other careers) in our front, but they'll be in small minority here imo ;)

[silex]

I think they'll be the minority until about tier 2. High end PvP will be a very healthy mix of all classes and races, with the obvious popular classes being more common than the rest (Witch Hunters, I'm looking at you).

If it turns out any different, I will gladly eat my hat, but I really don't think so. It supposedly takes only 10 minutes to get from one race's starting point to an allied race's starting point if you know your way. 10 minutes! TEN! That's like a Celt that started in Connla buying a couple horse tickets and cruising up to Mag Mell.



Oh well, the whole discussion about zealot balance in Group vs. Group combat is worthless. I apologize for bringing it up. I broke my own personal rule of not worrying about balance until we really know what the skills are going to be like, hehe.