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Rofelen
08-28-2007, 10:41 AM
What are you looking for in terms of Knight of the Blazing Sun play style? I'm very interested in this class, I've always been fond of tactical fighters. I'm hoping that the KotBS will have a system much like the other classes, where they become more powerful as the battle continues. I find the ideas such as Hatred, Grudge, Interrogation, Righteous Fury, the new Elven "balance", and Momentum very appealing, and I would propose that he has plans. As the battle progresses, the carefully laid out plans of the knight come to fruition, thus increasing the effects of his abilities. Everything falls into place as he suspected, and his advantage grows!

I'd like to see him have three different "Battlefield Command" abilities.

First, there would be strategies:

These would not be unlike Auras that we see in a large number of other games. As long as allies are in the range of the knights voice, he rallies them into formations and formulates ideas on how they should attack.

Sample strategies might include:

War of Attrition: The knight bolsters the resolve of his allies and attempts to grind the opposing team down by out-lasting them.
This strategy would deal damage to attacking foes, and lower their AP by a small amount whenever they attack.

This strategy would be ideal against swarms of attackers, like squigs. Alternatively, the Knight could judge it best to use it when grouped with particularly hardy allies who could use this to outlast their opponents even better (Most notably the dwarven Ironbreakers, who are all about absorbing fire and outlasting)

Skirmishing: The knight decides that the best way to overcoming this foe would be via hit-and-run skirmishing tactics. Instead of holding a tight formation, he orders everyone to spread out and keep on their toes.
Skirmishing would likely reduce ranged damage and increase AP regeneration. Without having to stay in formation, everyone has a bit more room to dodge and act.

Hold the Line: The knight grits his teeth and orders allies to ready for on-coming charges.
This would increase knock back-resistance and would increase defense to nearby allies.

The idea behind strategies are that they personal choices that the knight makes to bolster his unique group. Each one would have a tactical application, and I would think it ideal that they do not offer very static and generic boosts... like +40% damage. Such bonuses are useful at ALL times, but the idea that he might choose them on the fly to adapt to situations sounds much better to me. It would require some good assessment and planning.

The next abilities would be commands.

Commands are what most people were thinking of when they heard of the knight. AOE shouts that only last a small amount of time, and would be refreshed. These abilities would give short-term buffs that would play pace to the shifting battle...

Sample Commands might include...

Tactical Movement: The knight lets out a scream and orders a valiant charge at the opposition! Or perhaps he doubles back, and orders a "Tactical Withdraw"!
This would give a short boost to allied movement speed. Useful for running or charging!

Flank: The knight commands a unit to move around and outflank the foe.
All allies attacking from the side/rear would gain boosted damage and/or critical strike chance.

Counter Charge: The knight commands the troops to engage in a counter-charge! They whip forward, stealing the foe's momentum advantage and parry the first attack as the forces collide!
Allies will automatically parry/dodge the next attack aimed at them. This effect will only work for an individual if they are not within a certain radius of the opposition.

Finally, we would have plans. Plans would mature as the battle continues. The knight would apply them before engaging the foe, but it would be last maybe 1-3 minutes: about as long as a full battle between two sides.

Sample plans might include...

Outmaneuver: While he has been commanding his troops, the knight has taken steps to cut off any route of escape. Opposing troops find themselves besieged on all sides, creating a demoralizing effect, as well as slowing retreat.
This plan would decrease morale generation for foes by an ever increasing amount, as the knight begins to trap his opponent. It would also reduce movement speed of the foe by a small, but increasing amount as well.

Barrage: The knight foresaw that he would probably be beaten in melee by his opponents, but he commanded and planned his ranged troops to compensate. As lines break, the rushing foes come out of the fray only to find fireballs and blunderbusses aimed at them!
This plan would increase ranged damage of allies and avoidance chance for melee attackers. A great plan when you are in a "battleground" with mostly ranged allies, you and your friends attempt to delay the opponent while the plan gets ready, and the ranged troops unleash their fury.

So, that's what I'd like to see from KotBS in terms of their "Battle Command" abilities. Strategies for constant tactical advantages, commands for "on-the-fly" problems, and plans, where the knight assesses his force and the opposing force before the battle, initiates the plan, and goes in.
*note that this is all what YOU would like to see not actual game play*

Rofelen
08-28-2007, 10:42 AM
Martial abilities aren't something I had really thought of immediately. When I heard of KotBS, I was more intrigued by the tactical part. I know a good number of people are disappointed that they can't be one of the more generic, but martially focused, knights.

But anyways, the role of a tank works well for this guy. He's all about buffing his allies, so he is a prime target in PvP. Being a flanking tank though is a bit of a contradiction... Generally, when you're taunting something and keeping its focus (In PvE), its always facing you and you can't really get around and hit it from ideal angles. With this in scope, my ideal martial abilities would work out similar to this:

Flanking Abilities, (PvP)
Defensive Abilities, (Both!)
Aggro-enhancing Abilities, (PvE)
And flank-based aggro enhancing abilities. (Both!)

Flanking abilities would be all about Getting to the side or rear of the opponent, and then beatin' em down. Some of the flanking abilities would be set-up moves so that you could get to the side/rear in a 1v1 match or when an opponent is targeting you in the midst of a battle.

Defensive abilities would show off your resilience as a tank. Seeing how the elves have a finesse based tank already, I'd say it would be cool if the KotBS would be a tank who can boost his tanking abilities based on his allies. He could lock his shields with an Iron breaker and improve both defenses. If a witch-hunter is attacking the mob/player from the rear/flank as he attacks, new abilities would open up to him, as he takes advantage of the witch-hunter's distractions, and they synchronize attacks for maximum effect. Obviously you would have to give him some good one on one defensive abilities (Basic blocking and stuff) for soloing and duels and the such, but most of his tanking abilities would team up with other players in his group.

Aggro Enhancers hardly needs an explanation. Taunts, damage-lowering abilities, etc.

Flank-based Aggro Enhancers would be like " Oh crap! I lost aggro/the player is ignoring me! Oh, but the monster/player turned away from me to attack the bright wizard, exposing a weak point! * back stab for extra aggro/hamstring/stun * ". Basically, these abilities would be made to save a comrade who is in danger, and would be good for tailing opponents.

So, thats what I think I would enjoy with the KotBS class. What about you guys?

Evenvarg
08-28-2007, 11:54 AM
Brilliant! That's my opinion! Well done.. I tend to love the ability to "grind" the enemies AP..

- Hrafn Beornskeggur

Sir Athanasius
08-28-2007, 01:33 PM
Brilliant! That's my opinion! Well done.. I tend to love the ability to "grind" the enemies AP..

- Hrafn Beornskeggur

I 2nd that. :p I would love to play a KotBS just the way you described it.

Rofelen
08-31-2007, 08:48 AM
The purpose of this topic was to get ideas brewing and see what everyone's unique thoughts on what their ideal KotBS would be. I was just putting mine out as an example (perhaps I spent a bit too much time on it, it is rather extensive..), and as my opinion.

Anyone else?

Rizal
09-06-2007, 12:44 PM
I would love to play my knight as a tactical master, still, I need some abilities more focused on martial prowess. Strategies are sweet and all (btw, I LOVE the idea for plans), but I still need some sweet tactics to use when I need to "pwn on the go". I always thought a cool charge attack would be sweet. Add some cool effects to it and it would look pretty sweet.

EDIT: by "charge", I dont mean like a WoW charge. I'd rather a more realistic move where the knight lowers his weapon straight in front of him and proceeds to try to run his enemies through. Allow it to strike right through several enemies so long as they're in his line of attack.

silex
09-11-2007, 06:48 AM
My ideal KotBS probably goes against what a lot of players want out of the class, but here goes:


A heavilly armored tank that commands a squad of NPC soldiers, much like pets. He could have a maximum of 4 or 5 different "pets" at any one time. The makeup of this squad would be up to the Knight. Options would range from Heavy Tanks, Melee DPS, Ranged DPS, and Healers - much like the existing class archetypes of WAR. In addition to getting down and dirty in melee, the Knight simultaneously commands his squad.

Basically, it's almost as if you were playing an entire group of MMO characters by yourself, in conjunction with your normal group. Controls could be automatic (probably recommended for most things), but they could also be manual. Example - you can let your healers just heal whatever the AI thinks is a good choice, or you could take over and actually play that healer. Depending on how far Mythic could take it, it would be cool if you could even swap your camera control to follow the NPC you were giving orders to for a short bit. Your hotbars would temporarilly switch to that unit as well.

In the hands of a good player, the class could be amazing with all the micromanagement they could do.

The basic pet commands would apply as well. So, if you wanted, you could use 5 heavy tanks and command them to block a chokepoint and not move no matter what.

Runiat
09-11-2007, 06:53 AM
... I think they might have mentioned it if there was any chance in hell that might happen..

Of course, I could be mistaken.

Rofelen
09-11-2007, 10:28 AM
Thats a pretty interesting idea, Silex. Actually, that was the first thing that popped into my head when I heard this:
As a Knight, you will engage in battlefield command. All allies within the sound of your voice will strain to hear your orders above the cacophony of battle and will follow them without question.
...
Instead, you will be focused on taking charge of the defenses in any given conflict, both through direct, physical intervention and through acting as a commander on the battlefield.
The first thing that popped into my head when I heard that term and I was like "Whoa, so you'll zoom out to an aerial point of view and command troops? Schweet! Reading on, it describes how the commands are more about buffing, which made much more sense. Plus, its not an RTS game, although I am a great fan of such games.

I like the idea though.

... I think they might have mentioned it if there was any chance in hell that might happen..

Of course, I could be mistaken.Given that the squig-herder will only have one pet out at any given time (Or so we're being led to believe), I think its unlikely that any "multi-pet classes" will emerge. But this is all about speculating and ideas on the KotBS, so..

silex
09-13-2007, 08:14 AM
Yea, I was big time bummed about the Squig Herder being reduced to one pet.

I always find multiple pet classes really interesting. They throw a monkey wrench into typical class design and make things pretty interesting... but, that's perhaps one of the reasons they did get cut. Just too difficult to try and balance... Both Animists and Bonedancers were all over the balance charts of DAOC.