Do you think this would be possible.

[Dark-Angel]

since im not sure witch one to chose, bright wizard or archmage. I was wondering if its going to be possible to go full nuker or all most with the archmage, cause i dont realy like healing, except when the heals are the after effects of my spells, like nuking some one and at the same time heals allys or some thing like that. Im more of a back up healer when stuff get hecktic or i should stick with the bright wizard?

[Thoden Firehammer]

Alright, look if you don't like healing then don't go archmage.

Yes they can nuke but so can the Brightwizard.
If you go Archmage you will be expected to heal and supposrt your allies

[Hatemonger]

If they are the only support class, then people will probably expect you to fulfill that role.

I'm sure you can play your character anyway you want, but whether or not you will be effective and accepted is another questions. A question my ignorance of the class makes it impossible to answer.

Meh, at least you'll look cool.

[Yarilo]

Besides it's highly unlikely that you will be able to nuke with archmage as hard as with Bwizard.

[Crunchie]

I remember seeing on a podcast, that if you arent the primary healer or you don't want to heal, then you can bump up your nukes and lower your heal power. Maybe I heard it wrong.. I'll go check.

-- EDIT --

Ok, I found the podcast. It's the June edition, #8, just after half way through when the title comes up "What are you going to do to make sure healers more compelling?" Where they go on to say "Well, other than the fact healers are going to have options to lower their healing ability and increase their damage for cases where they are not the primary healer in their group." Then goes on a bit more about them, but that's the most relevent part.

Link to Podcasts : http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/media/podcast/

[Thoden Firehammer]

All I know is that you'll definitly be expected to heal and support your allies if you choose Archmage, and when your allies find out your a nuker... you might have to take alot of crap for it...

[Gaazruk]

All I know is that you'll definitly be expected to heal and support your allies if you choose Archmage, and when your allies find out your a nuker... you might have to take alot of crap for it...
Kinda like shadow priests in WoW...

in the high levels shadow spec was the only way to solo even half-decent as a priest but when it came to groups they laughed in your face.

[Gemini]

I remember seeing on a podcast, that if you arent the primary healer or you don't want to heal, then you can bump up your nukes and lower your heal power. Maybe I heard it wrong.. I'll go check.

-- EDIT --

Ok, I found the podcast. It's the June edition, #8, just after half way through when the title comes up "What are you going to do to make sure healers more compelling?" Where they go on to say "Well, other than the fact healers are going to have options to lower their healing ability and increase their damage for cases where they are not the primary healer in their group." Then goes on a bit more about them, but that's the most relevent part.

Link to Podcasts : http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/media/podcast/

Yes, through the use of tactics and morale skills, but an Archmage specced for nuking still won't be as versitile or powerful as a bright wizard with a good spec.

[Crunchie]

Yes, through the use of tactics and morale skills, but an Archmage specced for nuking still won't be as versitile or powerful as a bright wizard with a good spec.


Yes, I know. I was letting the OP know what the Archmage is capable of.
The Archmage is still more than able to put up a decent fight, even if he does have to heal the odd ally. It's up to the OP, but he has choices.. Of course Bright Wizard will do more damage.

[VeriusCarth]

All I know is that you'll definitly be expected to heal and support your allies if you choose Archmage, and when your allies find out your a nuker... you might have to take alot of crap for it...

That's the basis of MMOs.

Simple solution: Make friends.

They won't whine at you about what class / spec you pick. PUGs are all well and good, but friends are the people who let you try new things, and not bite your head off for it.

So, I say, give 'em both a go, and stick with the one you like!

There'll always be someone telling you to do something, always in most cases, they're easily ignored. Just don't forget, if you roll Archmage, toss out some courtesy heals from time to time. Even a small heal goes a long way. :)

[Revolutionomni]

What I really want to know is, what are you after in your ranged class? I'm sure there are plenty of people who wanted the Archmage to be a "different kind" of Bright Wizard, so they could be an elf mage damage dealer. However, Mythic has other plans for the ranged damage class for the High Elves.

That being said, again, what are you after in your ranged class? If It's heavy damage but only as a "mage-like" character for Order, go Bright Wizard then. There's nothing at all wrong with that, as they can dump heavy damage and in different ways. But, if you want a ranged class that can do all kinds of stuff but none of them extremely well, go Archmage. :cool:

I for one want more options rather than excelling in one area for my class = Archmage. And as for what other players think if you don't heal or buff others, yeah, expect some grief over it from time to time. But that doesn't mean people will be doing it all the time, as there will be plenty of other Archmages to heal and buff, like me :D I love supporting and classes that fit that role. Actually, I get frustrated if I can't heal myself or others. :roll:

From what I can read into your question though, I think you'd be happier with the Bright Wizard. No questions over damage with the Bright Wizard. ;)

[Dark-Angel]

Well yeah i prefer nuking, but i have heals i will surely toss some time to time when it gets critical, but i prefer beeing a back up healer. I dont mind tought tossing buffs while nuking and debuffing others, but i realy realy realy hate beeing the main healer and heal heal heal heal 50%+ of the time.

[Revolutionomni]

Well yeah i prefer nuking, but i have heals i will surely toss some time to time when it gets critical, but i prefer beeing a back up healer. I dont mind tought tossing buffs while nuking and debuffing others, but i realy realy realy hate beeing the main healer and heal heal heal heal 50%+ of the time.

I take it back ;) sounds like you COULD be an Archmage :D Only thing you have to answer is: Is losing nuking damage for interrupts/healing/buffing, worth it? If yes, then consider playing Archmage. :-)

[omnified_emu]

I find it so amusing, all of you saying that it will be unacceptable to be a archmage nuker, and that he will not be able to compete with a brightwizard. When not one of us knows what the archmage is going to be like. Traditionally yes a healer cant compete with a wizard for nuking damage. But we dont know yet, especially since they are doing healers different form any game ever before. So who knows, they did say in the podcast that the archmage is the most powerful caster, and we dont know what that means, it could just be a gimmick for saying the archmage is cool, it could mean he is an overpowered class and starting on day one people will be complaining about him twice as much as the shaman was complained about in wow( says 5 hail marys), they did say he drains magic power form everything around him, so maybe the first part of the battle he is just casting drain spells that do no or little damage, then once he builds up the power he rains hell down upon the battlefield with the most powerful spells in the game both damage and healing for a short while, then he has to start over again with the draining power. No ones knows until we play, and the beta testers are not even playing elfs yet. So we will just have to wait and see but a couple of things 1 if it was the last example i could see archmages being extremely popular for groups for damage dealing(you would just need to tell the group what type you are before or when you join), furthermore to me it seems alot of the fire wizard power is not going to be just in dd but also in dots(but once again i dont know this i just think this because of what they have said so far, the fire wizard could not have a single dot), so maybe the archmage will have more powerful dd but the brightwizard dd and dots combined will allow them to do more damage over time, or maybe the archmage will have the most powerful aoe in the game, the point is we simply dont know yet. And last remeber the smiting cleric in Doac(before he was nerf to hell and back), when the game first game out a smiting cleric put my fire wizard to shame in dps and thats with my bolts not getting blocked(starts cursing about players and mobs being in combat with the air around them)

[Revolutionomni]

I find it so amusing, all of you saying that it will be unacceptable to be a archmage nuker, and that he will not be able to compete with a brightwizard. When not one of us knows what the archmage is going to be like. Traditionally yes a healer cant compete with a wizard for nuking damage. But we dont know yet, especially since they are doing healers different form any game ever before. So who knows, they did say in the podcast that the archmage is the most powerful caster, and we dont know what that means, it could just be a gimmick for saying the archmage is cool, it could mean he is an overpowered class and starting on day one people will be complaining about him twice as much as the shaman was complained about in wow( says 5 hail marys), they did say he drains magic power form everything around him, so maybe the first part of the battle he is just casting drain spells that do no or little damage, then once he builds up the power he rains hell down upon the battlefield with the most powerful spells in the game both damage and healing for a short while, then he has to start over again with the draining power. No ones knows until we play, and the beta testers are not even playing elfs yet. So we will just have to wait and see but a couple of things 1 if it was the last example i could see archmages being extremely popular for groups for damage dealing(you would just need to tell the group what type you are before or when you join), furthermore to me it seems alot of the fire wizard power is not going to be just in dd but also in dots(but once again i dont know this i just think this because of what they have said so far, the fire wizard could not have a single dot), so maybe the archmage will have more powerful dd but the brightwizard dd and dots combined will allow them to do more damage over time, or maybe the archmage will have the most powerful aoe in the game, the point is we simply dont know yet. And last remeber the smiting cleric in Doac(before he was nerf to hell and back), when the game first game out a smiting cleric put my fire wizard to shame in dps and thats with my bolts not getting blocked(starts cursing about players and mobs being in combat with the air around them)

Wow, nice long rant there ;-)

While no one - even in beta - has played the Archmage, there's a lot of information in books, other games and from Mythic itself that has lead us to our conclusions. I stand by my belief on the Archmage and I have no doubt it can deal good damage, but it would be very unbalanced if it could even come close to out damaging a Bright Wizard; as a Archmage I'd be awaiting my nerf.

Lastly, it's very possible that apart of their spells that draws from their tapping/draining could very well be a very powerful spell, more damaging than any other caster, but maybe it takes of lot of "magic" to cast, has a long cast and a long cool-down. All the same, we're at the very least implying that the Archmage is the most powerful caster because of it's great versatility in all the winds magics and not it's skill in any given one. :D

I don't mean any hard feeling nor felt any from your post. I'm just explaining where I'm, at least, coming from. :)

[Hive]

I find it so amusing, all of you saying that it will be unacceptable to be a archmage nuker, and that he will not be able to compete with a brightwizard. When not one of us knows what the archmage is going to be like. Traditionally yes a healer cant compete with a wizard for nuking damage. But we dont know yet, especially since they are doing healers different form any game ever before. So who knows, they did say in the podcast that the archmage is the most powerful caster, and we dont know what that means, it could just be a gimmick for saying the archmage is cool, it could mean he is an overpowered class and starting on day one people will be complaining about him twice as much as the shaman was complained about in wow( says 5 hail marys), they did say he drains magic power form everything around him, so maybe the first part of the battle he is just casting drain spells that do no or little damage, then once he builds up the power he rains hell down upon the battlefield with the most powerful spells in the game both damage and healing for a short while, then he has to start over again with the draining power. No ones knows until we play, and the beta testers are not even playing elfs yet. So we will just have to wait and see but a couple of things 1 if it was the last example i could see archmages being extremely popular for groups for damage dealing(you would just need to tell the group what type you are before or when you join), furthermore to me it seems alot of the fire wizard power is not going to be just in dd but also in dots(but once again i dont know this i just think this because of what they have said so far, the fire wizard could not have a single dot), so maybe the archmage will have more powerful dd but the brightwizard dd and dots combined will allow them to do more damage over time, or maybe the archmage will have the most powerful aoe in the game, the point is we simply dont know yet. And last remeber the smiting cleric in Doac(before he was nerf to hell and back), when the game first game out a smiting cleric put my fire wizard to shame in dps and thats with my bolts not getting blocked(starts cursing about players and mobs being in combat with the air around them)

the walls of jericho have got nothing on your wall of text.



*elite tip* tapping enter twice can create what is know in certain powerful circles as a
"paragraph".

[Hatemonger]

Actually, an interesting thing to notice is that the Archmage is not only the only HEALER, but the only NUKER as well for the elfs. Therefore, it wouldn't surprise me if they could abandon their healing functions to deal BW-esque damage. Especially, from a lore point o view. All I'm saying, is that if you WANT to do that, you might want to consider just playing a BW. I mean, I like Marauder visually better than the other melee classes, even though others are more appealing game play wise. Guess which one I'm gonna be playing.

[omnified_emu]

Wow, nice long rant there ;-)

While no one - even in beta - has played the Archmage, there's a lot of information in books, other games and from Mythic itself that has lead us to our conclusions. I stand by my belief on the Archmage and I have no doubt it can deal good damage, but it would be very unbalanced if it could even come close to out damaging a Bright Wizard; as a Archmage I'd be awaiting my nerf.

Lastly, it's very possible that apart of their spells that draws from their tapping/draining could very well be a very powerful spell, more damaging than any other caster, but maybe it takes of lot of "magic" to cast, has a long cast and a long cool-down. All the same, we're at the very least implying that the Archmage is the most powerful caster because of it's great versatility in all the winds magics and not it's skill in any given one. :D

I don't mean any hard feeling nor felt any from your post. I'm just explaining where I'm, at least, coming from. :)


Aye but what do we actually know. We have not seen any videos of them pvping, we have not seen one in game image of them at all, hell we dont know the name of one of their abilities. In fact the only ability we know they have is some draining ability that in one way or another makes them more powerful, and supposly it drains magic or action points, but that has not even be confirmed. Other than that, they apparently have tons of utility spells, but we have no idea what they are yet.

We have no ideal what the most powerful caster means, abunch of people are jumping to the conclusion that its because they are going to have tons of spells for every different thing and that very well could be it but we dont know that yet. Form what i gather, they well have the most powerful spells in the game but they will have to spend the first part of the battle gathering up the energy to use those spells, but this is just what i think from what they have said. I could be competly wrong.

I also dont mean any hard feelings i just think it is a bit eary to make all these speculations. And i hate to bring up wow(says 5 hail marys), but the shaman could heal and he could heal pretty good(not the best), but did people reduce him to healing most of the time, no. Most shamans where competly spec for damage dealing, and just heal in emergencys, and i could see the archmage being played the same way.

[Revolutionomni]

Aye but what do we actually know. We have not seen any videos of them pvping, we have not seen one in game image of them at all, hell we dont know the name of one of their abilities. In fact the only ability we know they have is some draining ability that in one way or another makes them more powerful, and supposly it drains magic or action points, but that has not even be confirmed. Other than that, they apparently have tons of utility spells, but we have no idea what they are yet.

We have no ideal what the most powerful caster means, abunch of people are jumping to the conclusion that its because they are going to have tons of spells for every different thing and that very well could be it but we dont know that yet. Form what i gather, they well have the most powerful spells in the game but they will have to spend the first part of the battle gathering up the energy to use those spells, but this is just what i think from what they have said. I could be competly wrong.

I also dont mean any hard feelings i just think it is a bit eary to make all these speculations. And i hate to bring up wow(says 5 hail marys), but the shaman could heal and he could heal pretty good(not the best), but did people reduce him to healing most of the time, no. Most shamans where competly spec for damage dealing, and just heal in emergencys, and i could see the archmage being played the same way.

The Archmahes are known as High Elf Mages in the Warhammer TT game and in their Army book they do have spells that they can use that give us a good insight of what they might be like, and from what others have said they're units that you can use in WH Mark of Chaos; an RTS game. While Mark of Chaos shouldn't give an exact comparison, it again gives us ideas on how they could be played and spells they may have, and how they work.

There's a recent pot-cast put out about Archmages from Mythic in their Videos and Paul reaffirms they're not just healers but able to do "everything" well. Their "tapping" ability will be their main ability to cast "more powerful" spells. But for game balancing reasons there's no doubt they'll be nerfed if they're deemed over-powered.

As for WoW, I played pally from launch and they were pretty over-powered in comparison to other classes and in do time they were nerfed. As for Archmages playing like Shamans in WoW, I don't see you very far off there, just minus the totems; maybe a mix of Shaman, Mages and Druids.

One of the many really great things about this game, will be how much life most classes have and how combat is important for casters to heal well. This makes the game much more focused on screen, rather than just health bars; I love that! :D

Lastly, as for how specs will change the Archmage's play-style. If they were to spec full damage I could see them being as dangerous as any other ranged damager; like shadow priests, or elemental shamans in WoW. I've only been speaking from a general "spec" position, keeping with their role's main theme: support. Hell, they could end up being really heavy healers too if specced the other way (like a holy priest) but that's if we're talking about specs, which I have little insight on with this game, other than how it works for other MMOs. ;)

[omnified_emu]

The Archmahes are known as High Elf Mages in the Warhammer TT game and in their Army book they do have spells that they can use that give us a good insight of what they might be like, and from what others have said they're units that you can use in WH Mark of Chaos; an RTS game. While Mark of Chaos shouldn't give an exact comparison, it again gives us ideas on how they could be played and spells they may have, and how they work.

There's a recent pot-cast put out about Archmages from Mythic in their Videos and Paul reaffirms they're not just healers but able to do "everything" well. Their "tapping" ability will be their main ability to cast "more powerful" spells. But for game balancing reasons there's no doubt they'll be nerfed if they're deemed over-powered.

As for WoW, I played pally from launch and they were pretty over-powered in comparison to other classes and in do time they were nerfed. As for Archmages playing like Shamans in WoW, I don't see you very far off there, just minus the totems; maybe a mix of Shaman, Mages and Druids.

One of the many really great things about this game, will be how much life most classes have and how combat is important for casters to heal well. This makes the game much more focused on screen, rather than just health bars; I love that! :D

Lastly, as for how specs will change the Archmage's play-style. If they were to spec full damage I could see them being as dangerous as any other ranged damager; like shadow priests, or elemental shamans in WoW. I've only been speaking from a general "spec" position, keeping with their role's main theme: support. Hell, they could end up being really heavy healers too if specced the other way (like a holy priest) but that's if we're talking about specs, which I have little insight on with this game, other than how it works for other MMOs. ;)

Other than the first paragraph i dont disagree with anything you say in post. Futhermore i dont think are posts are disagreeing either(other than the first paragraph)

I think trying to base the spell selection off another game, especially when that game is made by a different company, will grant you no insight into what the archmages will be like in this game. As for what archmages actually are fluff wise(you may already know this, and just worded it poorly) they are eleven mages who have mastered the art of High Magic.

As for the tt game spell selection, that does not help much because well high elfs acces to over 2/3 of the spells in the game,as they have asccess to all 8 lores of the winds of magic(including every single spell the bright wizard could have)(and no im not saying that they are going to give archmages all the spells bright wizards have), and the high magic lore, so that doesnt really help much. If you mean just the high magic spells well, high magic does not have one healing spell(fluffwise it does, but not in the tt game, but fluff wise the high magic spells would be up to and over 5 times as powerful as they are in the tt game) and they have and fury of khaine which is the exact same power as fiery blast(which would be the powerful single target attack spells) and while it is open to debat i think flames of phoenix is more powerful then either conflagration of doom or wall of fire. So if we look at the spells for the tt game that would just give the impression that the archmage would be able to deal out just as much dps if not more than the bright wizard and be almost exactly like the bright wizard when it comes to dps( and i dont think that is the case, like i said i think the archmage will have to spend a good about of time draining power to cast his powerful spells but like i said before i could be competly wrong on this).

[wellsy]

Other than the first paragraph i dont disagree with anything you say in post. Futhermore i dont think are posts are disagreeing either(other than the first paragraph)

I think trying to base the spell selection off another game, especially when that game is made by a different company, will grant you no insight into what the archmages will be like in this game. As for what archmages actually are fluff wise(you may already know this, and just worded it poorly) they are eleven mages who have mastered the art of High Magic.

As for the tt game spell selection, that does not help much because well high elfs acces to over 2/3 of the spells in the game,as they have asccess to all 8 lores of the winds of magic(including every single spell the bright wizard could have)(and no im not saying that they are going to give archmages all the spells bright wizards have), and the high magic lore, so that doesnt really help much. If you mean just the high magic spells well, high magic does not have one healing spell(fluffwise it does, but not in the tt game, but fluff wise the high magic spells would be up to and over 5 times as powerful as they are in the tt game) and they have and fury of khaine which is the exact same power as fiery blast(which would be the powerful single target attack spells) and while it is open to debat i think flames of phoenix is more powerful then either conflagration of doom or wall of fire. So if we look at the spells for the tt game that would just give the impression that the archmage would be able to deal out just as much dps if not more than the bright wizard and be almost exactly like the bright wizard when it comes to dps( and i dont think that is the case, like i said i think the archmage will have to spend a good about of time draining power to cast his powerful spells but like i said before i could be competly wrong on this).

Using the lores of the TT game and from Mark of Chaos (which I haven't played, and thus will not refer to) doesn't give us anything definitive. However, they do provide a useful guide. As previously stated, of High Magic, only two spells deal direct damage. The other four are more subtle, but can easily turn the tide (Curse of Arrow Attraction is cool, and while I've never used it, I can imagine Fortune is Fickle being very amusing, in a cruel way). Not to mention the fact of Drain magic being given to every mage who takes High Magic.

This tells me that while Archmage will have the ability to deal damage, most of their spells will work in more subtle ways, denying magical abilities to the enemy and then using that energy to support their own troops in various ways.

Just how they deal damage and provide aid to their allies is, of course, not going to be settled until they release the information. However, what I was told from an analysis of High Magic (which IS a combo of the eight winds of magic) is essentially what we have already been told by good ol' Paul Barnett.

There will probably be several spells from other lores too. Some form of Healing Hand (Lore of Light) is bound to be in (for obvious reasons), as well as several other spells that might fit their support role. Which ones they are, I have no idea, but I'll point to Second Sign of Amul (Lore of the Heavens), maybe Uranon's Thunderbolt (again, Lore of Heavens) as a cool AoE damage dealer, Rule of Burning Iron (Lore of Metal) which would give tanks a tougher time, and possibly a few others.

Will those latter ones be in? I have no idea. However, they fit the idea of being subtle, but incredably useful. All it takes is a bit of logic and analysis and you can have a fair idea of what may be in. Just see my first two paragraphs to see that.

[omnified_emu]

Using the lores of the TT game and from Mark of Chaos (which I haven't played, and thus will not refer to) doesn't give us anything definitive. However, they do provide a useful guide. As previously stated, of High Magic, only two spells deal direct damage. The other four are more subtle, but can easily turn the tide (Curse of Arrow Attraction is cool, and while I've never used it, I can imagine Fortune is Fickle being very amusing, in a cruel way). Not to mention the fact of Drain magic being given to every mage who takes High Magic.

This tells me that while Archmage will have the ability to deal damage, most of their spells will work in more subtle ways, denying magical abilities to the enemy and then using that energy to support their own troops in various ways.

Just how they deal damage and provide aid to their allies is, of course, not going to be settled until they release the information. However, what I was told from an analysis of High Magic (which IS a combo of the eight winds of magic) is essentially what we have already been told by good ol' Paul Barnett.

There will probably be several spells from other lores too. Some form of Healing Hand (Lore of Light) is bound to be in (for obvious reasons), as well as several other spells that might fit their support role. Which ones they are, I have no idea, but I'll point to Second Sign of Amul (Lore of the Heavens), maybe Uranon's Thunderbolt (again, Lore of Heavens) as a cool AoE damage dealer, Rule of Burning Iron (Lore of Metal) which would give tanks a tougher time, and possibly a few others.

Will those latter ones be in? I have no idea. However, they fit the idea of being subtle, but incredably useful. All it takes is a bit of logic and analysis and you can have a fair idea of what may be in. Just see my first two paragraphs to see that.

But you said it in your first paragraph, that it doesnt give us anything definitive, yes looking at the tt spells and fluff lore can give us a vague ideal, but its just that a vague ideal, i would love to have them throw in fortune is fickle(which since there is no casting roll in this game, i would assume would just give casters a flat chance to fail there casting rolls), and i not saying don't imagine, wonder, and guess what we archmages can get. I just saying dont tell a person how to play a class or tell them what a class will be able to do this early on, when we know so little and can only guess at the rest.

[Estebar]

First thing you have to remember is that The Empire is full of extremes.They represent, on an intellectual basis, that humans are capable of almost anything. And then on a sort of philosophical basis, that when humans are allowed to do anything, they take it to extremes. Whereas your elves cast magic, and it's impressive, I can tell you, the humans can only cast particular types of magic, because they can't be trusted with everything. They're sort of like five-year olds. Bright Wizards are humans that have been trusted with fire magic, and typically like humans, they've taken it to extremes. If you're looking for a pure nuker, go for the Bright Wizard. They practice the most dangerous and destructive of the eight lores of magic taught to the humans. Their focus and dedication to this particular aspect is taken to a level far beyond that which any sane Elf would risk. Humans are so easily influenced by the energies of magic and Chaos that the most powerful Bright Wizards begin to embody their magic in a way which no Elf could. Their hair rises up into red or orange flame, their temper becomes volatile and highly irritable and they delight in all things related to the properties of fire.

Elves may be more knowledgable and capable with magic, but Humans can take a single aspect of magic to an extreme which no Elf would dare to reach, being fully aware of the risk of giving yourself over completely to a single magical focus. The Humans walk a very dangerous path, but it is dedicated to blowing things up to such a degree that Bright Wizards will predictably, at higher levels, pack much more of a punch than Archmages, who will probably be more concerned with multiple effects and wider spread areas of influence (i.e. white healing flames, large AoE debuffs and AP boosting buffs).

[Revolutionomni]

I'd like to add, most all these forums are about ideas for things that aren't confirmed yet and with that, most of us want to think and express our ideas. I think most of us have been reasonable in our ideas with the knowledge Mythic will do what it wants and thinks is best.

So, if you don't like our ideas, give your own but don't ask or imply that we shouldn't express them, even if they seem off base in your eyes. :D

[omnified_emu]

I'd like to add, most all these forums are about ideas for things that aren't confirmed yet and with that, most of us want to think and express our ideas. I think most of us have been reasonable in our ideas with the knowledge Mythic will do what it wants and thinks is best.

So, if you don't like our ideas, give your own but don't ask or imply that we shouldn't express them, even if they seem off base in your eyes. :D

The last couple of lines i say just that feel free to express and tell what you think the spells are going to be like as much as you want, i am just saying until we are actually playing the archmage in game and know how exactly he plays and what he is capable, dont be telling other people how to play the class.

[omnified_emu]

If you're looking for a pure nuker, go for the Bright Wizard. They practice the most dangerous and destructive of the eight lores of magic taught to the humans. Their focus and dedication to this particular aspect is taken to a level far beyond that which any sane Elf would risk. Humans are so easily influenced by the energies of magic and Chaos that the most powerful Bright Wizards begin to embody their magic in a way which no Elf could. Their hair rises up into red or orange flame, their temper becomes volatile and highly irritable and they delight in all things related to the properties of fire.

Elves may be more knowledgable and capable with magic, but Humans can take a single aspect of magic to an extreme which no Elf would dare to reach, being fully aware of the risk of giving yourself over completely to a single magical focus. The Humans walk a very dangerous path, but it is dedicated to blowing things up to such a degree that Bright Wizards will predictably, at higher levels, pack much more of a punch than Archmages, who will probably be more concerned with multiple effects and wider spread areas of influence (i.e. white healing flames, large AoE debuffs and AP boosting buffs).

The reason elfs dont go to that extreme, is because it would be useless to them, and humans do not really do it on purpose. It is more of natural occurence that comes with casting for humans, the wind pretty much becomes part of them, making them take on the traits of the wind and even transforming there sight. While elves have much more control of the winds and can channel the winds without these side effects.

While these does offer some minor benefits for human casters, for the most part is it either comestic(red hair for example for bright wizards) or actually bad for the caster such smelling of death for amber wizards. Then there are some that have both good traits and bad for example the gold wizard's body becomes part metal which makes them tougher but slows them down, and then there is the rare competly benefical ones such as jade wizards becoming resistant to disease. But for actually casting purposes they lucky ones can get the mark of the wind they study, which does allow them to channel it better, but it in no ways gives human even a chance to channel what elves can channel. If you had Thyrus Gormann himself(the current patriarch of the bright order and most powerful human bright wizard living) go up against any elf who had earned the title of archmage, and the archmage only cast fire magic, it would be a slaughter, Gorman would not stand a chance.

But for the sake of balance for the game (and the tt game does it as well) they have human wizards be on par with elf wizards, so yes for just pure straight forward dps the bright wizard will proably be the king(with maybe the exception of the dark elf caster, as i have a feeling they may make him be pure nuker dps similar to the bright wizard), that being said i could see the archmage actually having the most powerful spells in the game, but he would have to spend the first part of the battle draining power to cast those spells, while the bright wizard will be nuking for the get go, so the bright wizard will do more damage over all, but this is just a guess of mine and i could be competly wrong(we will just have to wait and see how the archmage plays exactly).


P.S. Fluff wise yes the lore of fire is techincally most destructive lore of the humans and is in wfrp. In the tt game that title goes to the lore of heaven, cough comet of casandora cough

[wellsy]

The reason elfs dont go to that extreme, is because it would be useless to them, and humans do not really do it on purpose. It is more of natural occurence that comes with casting for humans, the wind pretty much becomes part of them, making them take on the traits of the wind and even transforming there sight. While elves have much more control of the winds and can channel the winds without these side effects.

While these does offer some minor benefits for human casters, for the most part is it either comestic(red hair for example for bright wizards) or actually bad for the caster such smelling of death for amber wizards. Then there are some that have both good traits and bad for example the gold wizard's body becomes part metal which makes them tougher but slows them down, and then there is the rare competly benefical ones such as jade wizards becoming resistant to disease. But for actually casting purposes they lucky ones can get the mark of the wind they study, which does allow them to channel it better, but it in no ways gives human even a chance to channel what elves can channel. If you had Thyrus Gormann himself(the current patriarch of the bright order and most powerful human bright wizard living) go up against any elf who had earned the title of archmage, and the archmage only cast fire magic, it would be a slaughter, Gorman would not stand a chance.

But for the sake of balance for the game (and the tt game does it as well) they have human wizards be on par with elf wizards, so yes for just pure straight forward dps the bright wizard will proably be the king(with maybe the exception of the dark elf caster, as i have a feeling they may make him be pure nuker dps similar to the bright wizard), that being said i could see the archmage actually having the most powerful spells in the game, but he would have to spend the first part of the battle draining power to cast those spells, while the bright wizard will be nuking for the get go, so the bright wizard will do more damage over all, but this is just a guess of mine and i could be competly wrong(we will just have to wait and see how the archmage plays exactly).


P.S. Fluff wise yes the lore of fire is techincally most destructive lore of the humans and is in wfrp. In the tt game that title goes to the lore of heaven, cough comet of casandora cough

1 - Watch this video (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fWvAznIRVLA). Paul explains all the races involved in WAR. Humans "take things to extremes." Thats the avenue they're going, and I like it.

2 - According to lore, you're right. See #1 for why.

3 - The Archmage can nuke from the get-go too. They can gain more power more quickly by tapping, but they won't need to go "Tap, Tap, Tap, Tap, Tap, ZAAAAAP!". You should pay more attention to the presentation (http://war.curse.com/videos/details/638/) in Leipzig.

4 - The Archmage will be much more diverse and capable than the Bright Wizard, so while not being able to deal as much damage, could easily be able to trump a Bright Wizard simply because they can drain the BW's magic away and then use that for their own abilities, which range from damage dealing to healing. Thus, lore can be preserved, but in terms of pure damage, BW>>AM.

5 - I agree - Heavens is cool in damage dealing (D6 S4 no armour saves? ThankYOU!). But Comet ain't as good as it once was.

[omnified_emu]

1 - Watch this video (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fWvAznIRVLA). Paul explains all the races involved in WAR. Humans "take things to extremes." Thats the avenue they're going, and I like it.

2 - According to lore, you're right. See #1 for why.

3 - The Archmage can nuke from the get-go too. They can gain more power more quickly by tapping, but they won't need to go "Tap, Tap, Tap, Tap, Tap, ZAAAAAP!". You should pay more attention to the presentation (http://war.curse.com/videos/details/638/) in Leipzig.

4 - The Archmage will be much more diverse and capable than the Bright Wizard, so while not being able to deal as much damage, could easily be able to trump a Bright Wizard simply because they can drain the BW's magic away and then use that for their own abilities, which range from damage dealing to healing. Thus, lore can be preserved, but in terms of pure damage, BW>>AM.

5 - I agree - Heavens is cool in damage dealing (D6 S4 no armour saves? ThankYOU!). But Comet ain't as good as it once was.



1 i agree, i dont see what we are disagreeing about

2 i dont see anything to argue about

3 yes i know he can nuke for the get go i was using the tap tap tap tap thing for example using his most powerful spells and casting them more than once(still not sure if its going to give access to more powerful spells or just make your spells more powerful) and furthermore we are not sure how much he is going to have to tap to get this extra power, and how powerful his spells will be without tapping, but of course he will be able to cast weaker dps spells for the get go

4 yes i said this in my 2nd to last post, that the bright wizard is most likely going to be the king of dps(with the possible exception of the dark elf cast if they make him a dps spammer like the bright wizard), and yes with the drain magic alone(unless it just plain sucks, i doubt it will) will make most casters curse his name in utterbane and that is without all the other neat spells that he is going to get.

5 Come on the casting rolling is bit higher and they lower the str by 1, but still the hitting multiple units for 2d6 str4 hits(up to his whole army if it stays up long enough and doesnt get dispelled) and it doesnt even need range or los, but that being said the main thing i hate about the new heaven lore (even more than 2nd sign going to the 2nd slot) is taking away the storm of chronos(sp), my sink priests(flying around and running around at 18 with scout) loved that spell :(


P.S. what are we even argueing about now

[Purgling]

P.S. what are we even argueing about now

I think the topic became...

"Anatomy of the run on sentence"

or

"How to take a breath....the period in action"

[Revolutionomni]

P.S. what are we even argueing about now

Not much of anything anymore, you seem to be coming around. ;) Though it's possible your following post may be opposing just spite us. :rolleyes:

All the same, I hear your argument and it's not invalid. It's just a lot of us have looked into how Mythic is planning their mechanics and we feel we have a very good grasp on what they're doing. So, it's not as though we "don't know" anything yet; as your first posts had claimed in short. We just haven't "seen" it in action; which I very much look forward too! I really don't feel as though I, Estebar and Wellsy have mislead anyone. We don't know details, no one knows details, but we have a very good grasp on their role and their guiding mechanics. :D

[Mortissia]

We know that High Elf Mages use diverse types of magic. I would expect there is a good chance the Archmage will be able to:

(1) Heal
(2) Nuke with DDs and AEs (not as well as the Bright Wizard)
(3) Power drain
(4) Possibly power replenish other
(5) Various types of CC (Roots, Snares, short duration Stuns, Knoackdowns, Power Push, Force Cage, Force Wall)
(6) Debuff
(7) Buff

I'm just trying to think of "diverse" things an Archmage can do to be "powerful" and yet not be a drop dead nuker. These seem logical possibliities to me based on other MMOs. I can think of other things as well but I don't think we will see these in WAR (e.g. stronger CC).

[Dark-Angel]

Or maybe i might just make 2 characters, :P one bright wizard and one Archmage, who is my main? the one i like :P

[Hampus]

Sigh, don't go Archmage if you don't want to heal.