Ruinpriest - 1.05: Healing changes documented (Runepriest)

[Stormblazer]

Edit: All three undocumented changes listed below have now been conclusively proven by my testing on the PST. The first is negligible and understandable, the second appears to be unintended (though beneficial) and the third is a discrepancy between the tooltip and the actual healing (and it might be on live too, didn't check).

1. The exact heal values for Rune of Regeneration (core HoT) and Rune of Mending (hybrid direct+HoT) have been tweaked. In the case of Rune of Regeneration, I'm guess this was to make it evenly divisible by 8 instead of 5 (oweing to the duration change).
2. UPDATED2: I've done another round of extensive testing, and I was correct, Rune of Regeneration's scaling from willpower has conclusively been increased. The original scaling was 0.3hpw. It appears to be around 0.48 now. My guess is that this is an unintended consequence in Mythic's code: on Live, Regeneration is 5 ticks of healing, whereas it's 8 ticks on test. This is a 60% increase in the number of ticks. If you increase 0.3 by 60%, you get 0.48. My data supports this conclusion on PST. If people are interested, I'll link the spreadsheet.
3. UPDATED: I've done much more testing on this, and for Rune of Mending either:
(A): The tooltip is wrong by about 60 healing or
(B): Somewhere between zero willpower and the lowest tested willpower you get a flat 60 extra healing for no explicable reason that is totally independent of normal scaling.
Either way, my data is showing this well outside any possibility of rounding errors.

The first test was at 579 Willpower, using Oath Rune of Iron to buff willpower along with the willpower tactic and full gear. The second was identical except without Oath Rune of Iron putting me at 519 Willpower. The third test I took off all bonuses to Willpower including gear, leaving me at 233 Willpower. All tests were conducted at rank 28, in a PvE setting to minimize variables, with 11 points in the Valaya mastery path.

Test Numbers:

Rune of Regeneration: (baseline, test): 1096 total, 137/tick
@233 Willpower, 150/tick, 1200 total
@519 Willpower, 167/tick, 1336 total
@579 Willpower, 171/tick, 1368 total

Now, previous scaling on Rune of Regeneration to my knowledge was 0.3 healing per willpower, correct (1.5 per 5 willpower)? Based on the numbers above, scaling on test server must be closer to 0.45 healing per willpower, so the coefficient was increased by 50% or so it would seem.

Also, to expand on what others are already posting about Rune of Mending:
Rune of Mending: (baseline, r30 test): 715 total, 196 initial & 173/tick
@233 Willpower, 266 initial & 182/tick (812 total)
@519 Willpower, 269 initial & 196/tick (857 total)
@579 Willpower, 271 initial & 199/tick (868 total)

Previous scaling on Rune of Mending was 0.8 healing per willpower (IIRC 0.4 for the initial and 0.4 for the HoT). Based on the numbers above, the scaling was cut by almost half, crippling Rune of Mending since its base healing is weak, and it was almost entirely reliant on high scaling to be useful due to the very high AP cost.


Live Numbers:

Rune of Regeneration (baseline, live): 1100 total, 220/tick
@233 Willpower, 233/tick, 1165 total
@519 Willpower, 250/tick, 1250 total
@579 Willpower, 254/tick, 1270 total

Rune of Mending: (baseline, r30 live): 705 total, 192 initial & 171/tick
@233 Willpower, 284 initial & 201/tick, 887 total
@519 Willpower, 398 initial & 240/tick, 1118 total
@579 Willpower, 422 initial & 248/tick, 1166 total


Results:

Rune of Regeneration:
Healing per tick decreased by an average of 34% over my three tests. Higher willpower reduces the % of nerf, but only by miniscule amounts.

Rune of Mending:
Gain from willpower was nerfed an average of 60% over my three tests.
Total healing was nerfed by 25.6% at 579 willpower but only 8.5% at 233 willpower.

Edit: Also, I can confirm that Master Rune of Speed is completely broken on test server. Graphic appears and ability casts, however, there is no buff given and there is no casting time decrease on any of my abilities.

Test Numbers:

Rune of Regeneration: (baseline, test): 1096 total, 137/tick
@233 Willpower, 150/tick, 1200 total
@519 Willpower, 167/tick, 1336 total
@579 Willpower, 171/tick, 1368 total

Now, previous scaling on Rune of Regeneration to my knowledge was 0.3 healing per willpower, correct (1.5 per 5 willpower)? Based on the numbers above, scaling on test server must be closer to 0.45 healing per willpower, so the coefficient was increased by 50% or so it would seem. To my knowledge this is not listed in the patch notes.

Rune of Mending: (baseline, r30 test): 715 total, 196 initial & 173/tick
@233 Willpower, 266 initial & 182/tick (812 total)
@519 Willpower, 269 initial & 196/tick (857 total)
@579 Willpower, 271 initial & 199/tick (868 total)

Previous scaling on Rune of Mending was 0.8 healing per willpower (IIRC 0.4 for the initial and 0.4 for the HoT).


Live Numbers:

Rune of Regeneration (baseline, live): 1100 total, 220/tick
@233 Willpower, 233/tick, 1165 total
@519 Willpower, 250/tick, 1250 total
@579 Willpower, 254/tick, 1270 total

Rune of Mending: (baseline, r30 live): 705 total, 192 initial & 171/tick
@233 Willpower, 284 initial & 201/tick, 887 total
@519 Willpower, 398 initial & 240/tick, 1118 total
@579 Willpower, 422 initial & 248/tick, 1166 total


Results:

Rune of Regeneration:
Healing per tick decreased by an average of 34% over my three tests (willpower lessened the impact of the change, but only by very small amounts, as the difference between 233 willpower and 579 willpower was only 3% in the decrease per tick). Oddly enough, the difference between the new tick and old tick values was uniformly 83.

Rune of Mending:
Gain from willpower was decreased an average of 60% over my three tests.
Total healing was decreased by 25.6% at 579 willpower but only 8.5% at 233 willpower.

NOTE: Most of the above is a repost from the Runepriest subforum, edited to better fit the guidelines of the PTS Discussion board and added more material at the beginning regarding methodology and the like.

[Browncoat-WHA]

This is a great post, and exactly what we want to see in this section in the forum. Bravo.

I'd be interested in seeing the numbers from other healing classes.

[RedDevilCG]

So it looks like Rune of Regeneration is healing for a larger total, but Rune of mending is healing for a lot less?

Not sure what's going on with the willpower there, but I hope it get's normalized sometime soon!

[Eidle]

Thank you for this post, very useful info.

What is your impression on the playability of these changes?

[Xae]

I understand why they are nerfing HOTs, but I think they should pursue another path. I think all of us have been in a game where both sides have 8 healers and no one dies, EVER. The ability for healers to have uninterruptable powerful healing spells is a problem currently.

But it does not need to be a problem, and the issue could have been dealt with by increasing the number of healing debuffs around.

[Healix]

I understand why they are nerfing HOTs, but I think they should pursue another path. I think all of us have been in a game where both sides have 8 healers and no one dies, EVER. The ability for healers to have uninterruptable powerful healing spells is a problem currently.

But it does not need to be a problem, and the issue could have been dealt with by increasing the number of healing debuffs around.

Um, I haven't ever been in one of those. These changes go to the heart of being a healer. There certainly isn't a corresponding increase in an RP's dps output to make up for this nerf, so we are instantly 25% less effective in surviving being attacked. Maybe you, as a dps class like that, but I don't.

[HeavyD]

I disagree with this whole posting

I understand why they are nerfing HOTs, but I think they should pursue another path. I think all of us have been in a game where both sides have 8 healers and no one dies, EVER. The ability for healers to have uninterruptable powerful healing spells is a problem currently.

But it does not need to be a problem, and the issue could have been dealt with by increasing the number of healing debuffs around.Are you saying that by sheer luck (which has never happened on my server.. we are lucky to see 1 or 2) that each team somehow gets 8 healers that one healer has to be overpowered just because it is now hard to kill someone? This makes no logical sense.

By that logic... then every DPS is overpowered because as a healer when I get into a scenerio and see 8 dps it means that people will be killed and killing is overpowerd.

EDIT.
I forgot this: The ability for healers to have uninterruptable powerful healing spells is a problem currently.

What spells are you talking about? Every spell we have can be interrupted before we even have a chance to cast. Ever been disabled in someway? Examples.. knock down, silence are two.

[PinkysBrain]

I think he is talking about insta cast vs casting time. What he isn't taking into account is Time To Kill, we need our large instacast HOTs to keep someone up against the DOT stacks ticking his health away in a couple GCDs ... if we all start building up long casting time heals when someone gets burned down we will waste heals on a pile of ash.

The only interrupteable heals which aren't useless on someone being burned down are channeling heals, which are only available as mastery tree abilities with only 1 class on either side having a good single target one.

[HeavyD]

I was sure he meant the instant cast spells. That is why I mentioned that all our spells can be stopped before even being cast.

Many times now I have had someone run up and knock me down right before the focus fire started. Focused fired for a period of time when I cannot cast a single healer. Seems like my ability to heal was definately interrupted.

[batedbreath]

This is a great post, and exactly what we want to see in this section in the forum. Bravo.

I'd be interested in seeing the numbers from other healing classes.

There are many different threads in the various healer class boards with results like these. Open any of those class discussion pages and you'll have many to choose from.

For example, from the shaman boards - http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184313

[Grup]

as a shaman i like the proposed change to our big heal from 3 to 2.5 as it's nearly useless spell atm. The significant nerfs to our healing was completely unnecessary and also our willpower still barely affects our HoTs. Please don't nerf something that is already broken.

I did some testing to prove how badly our heals were nerfed, and how broken willpower is(way to nerf heals before even fixing willpower)

Do Somefin Useful
Pre 1.05 260 Willpower 288
Pre 1.05 682 Willpower 414
1.05 260 Willpower 288
1.05 682 willpower 414

No change from patch, and it gets a 31.% boost from 422 willpower. .3dps per willpower. This gets a somewhat respectable boost from willpower, but it should be more.

Ey Quit your bleeding
Pre 1.05 260 Willpower 313
Pre 1.05 682 Willpower 334
1.05 260 Willpower 195
1.05 682 willpower 209
This heal was nerfed by 37.5%. On top of that it gains a PITIFUL 6.7% extra heal from 422 willpower for a whopping .06dps/willpower.


Gork'll Fix it
Pre 1.05 260 Willpower 255
Pre 1.05 682 Willpower 312
1.05 260 Willpower 234
1.05 682 willpower 255
This heal was nerfed by 18.3%. It gained a 18.3% extra heal from 422 willpower pre-patch(.18 dps/willpower). After patch it gains 8.3% extra heal(.08dps/willpower) from 422 willpower because "The stat contribution for this ability has been fixed" ya this spell was fixed...no really it was.

Bigger Better and Greener
Pre 1.05 260 Willpower 1281
Pre 1.05 682 Willpower 1533
1.05 260 Willpower 1281
1.05 682 willpower 1533
This spell was unchanged from 1.05. It gains 16.5% from 422 willpower(.165dps/willpower). Also if they implement the .5sec reduction and lower the interrupt like they say they might that'll definitely help. I still believe it should be 2seconds.

In conclusion our hots were severely nerfed and the nerf wasn't needed at all. Our big heal should have been buffed instead. Also our willpower is pretty much useless for 3/4 of my shamans heals the 4th one should get a bit more from willpower. Mythic drove off a cliff when it came to healers and i REALLY hope they can get back up soon.

[batedbreath]

as a shaman i like the proposed change to our big heal from 3 to 2.5 as it's nearly useless spell atm. The significant nerfs to our healing was completely unnecessary and also our willpower still barely affects our HoTs. Please don't nerf something that is already broken.

I did some testing to prove how badly our heals were nerfed, and how broken willpower is(way to nerf heals before even fixing willpower)

Do Somefin Useful
Pre 1.05 260 Willpower 288
Pre 1.05 682 Willpower 414
1.05 260 Willpower 288
1.05 682 willpower 414

No change from patch, and it gets a 31.% boost from 422 willpower. .3dps per willpower. This gets a somewhat respectable boost from willpower, but it should be more.

Ey Quit your bleeding
Pre 1.05 260 Willpower 313
Pre 1.05 682 Willpower 334
1.05 260 Willpower 195
1.05 682 willpower 209
This heal was nerfed by 37.5%. On top of that it gains a PITIFUL 6.7% extra heal from 422 willpower for a whopping .06dps/willpower.


Gork'll Fix it
Pre 1.05 260 Willpower 255
Pre 1.05 682 Willpower 312
1.05 260 Willpower 234
1.05 682 willpower 255
This heal was nerfed by 18.3%. It gained a 18.3% extra heal from 422 willpower pre-patch(.18 dps/willpower). After patch it gains 8.3% extra heal(.08dps/willpower) from 422 willpower because "The stat contribution for this ability has been fixed" ya this spell was fixed...no really it was.

Bigger Better and Greener
Pre 1.05 260 Willpower 1281
Pre 1.05 682 Willpower 1533
1.05 260 Willpower 1281
1.05 682 willpower 1533
This spell was unchanged from 1.05. It gains 16.5% from 422 willpower(.165dps/willpower). Also if they implement the .5sec reduction and lower the interrupt like they say they might that'll definitely help. I still believe it should be 2seconds.

In conclusion our hots were severely nerfed and the nerf wasn't needed at all. Our big heal should have been buffed instead. Also our willpower is pretty much useless for 3/4 of my shamans heals the 4th one should get a bit more from willpower. Mythic drove off a cliff when it came to healers and i REALLY hope they can get back up soon.

Those numbers are seriously disheartening. I hope Mythic is looking at the same numbers because as it stands I don't see how they can possibly make these changes without essentially making it a different game. Ugh.:confused: I'm not one to cry or complain, but this is just completely baffling.

[Shadowhellz]

I don't know if they slightered altered WP for DoKs, but I figured I might as well put in my input. Even though it'll seem slightly odd.

So pre 1.05 my Dok is a 34 DR specced. Theese numbers are based on me being bolstered as well.

Restore essence:
568 hp initially healed
322 hp per hot tick

Soul infusion:
321 hp per hot tick

Khaines embrace:
1013 hp healed

Khaines Vigor:
163 hp per hot tick


Now 1.05

Restore essence:
362 hp initially healed
263 hp per hot tick

Soul infusion:
220 hp per hot tick

Khaines embrace:
1085 hp healed

Khaines Vigor:
164 hp per hot tick

Basically I went from someone who could use restore essence as my heal people outside of my party to "If you're not one of the 5 in my group, sorry dude".

Khaines embrace and Soul infusion's gap is much small now, making soul infusion almost useless considering I can keep khaines embrace up ticking for 30 seconds for less than keeping it for 24 seconds on 3 people.

I can't really explain why Vigor or embrance heal slightly more, I need to look into it a bit more.

Oh and I know the numbers seem a little high for someone bolstered, but I have 832 WP bolstered without a mark, I'll have to find a zealot and see what the numbers are then.

[Stormblazer]

UPDATE:
Ok, I ran much more extensive numbers tonight, for time's sake I'm not going to list it all out because I ran about 8 different tests at different levels of willpower ranging from 265 to 666 with Rune of Mending at rank 30. Methodology was to go into Praag with 7 points in Valaya as an r28 RP (thus, Mending at r30), and jump off of things to hurt myself then immediately cast a heal.

Regarding the third potentially undocumented change:
I was right, there is something screwy going on between the tooltip listed baseline heal and the benefit from willpower.
I'm 99% positive the new scaling to the initial heal on Rune of Mending is 0.15 healing per willpower, and the new scaling on the HoT portion is 0.15 healing per willpower (HpW).
This is based on taking the slope of each of these tests and averaging them together.

So assuming that the actual heal value is calculated as BaseHealing + Willpower*HealingPerWillpower, this should all work out. Except that all my predicted values were off by the SAME amount (60) at any obtainable level of willpower.
What does this mean?

Either:
(A): The tooltip is wrong by about 60 healing or
(B): Somewhere between zero willpower and the lowest tested willpower you get a flat 60 extra healing for no explicable reason that is totally independent of normal scaling.

My bets, quite obviously, are on possibility A.

Also, on a side note, just listing numbers doesn't do us a lot of good when it comes to the hybrid HoT because it was willpower scaling that was affected- checking straight numbers is going to be heavily dependent on your willpower, which is why I take this into account.

[Crawd]

as a shaman i like the proposed change to our big heal from 3 to 2.5 as it's nearly useless spell atm. The significant nerfs to our healing was completely unnecessary and also our willpower still barely affects our HoTs. Please don't nerf something that is already broken.

I did some testing to prove how badly our heals were nerfed, and how broken willpower is(way to nerf heals before even fixing willpower)

Do Somefin Useful
Pre 1.05 260 Willpower 288
Pre 1.05 682 Willpower 414
1.05 260 Willpower 288
1.05 682 willpower 414

No change from patch, and it gets a 31.% boost from 422 willpower. .3dps per willpower. This gets a somewhat respectable boost from willpower, but it should be more.

Ey Quit your bleeding
Pre 1.05 260 Willpower 313
Pre 1.05 682 Willpower 334
1.05 260 Willpower 195
1.05 682 willpower 209
This heal was nerfed by 37.5%. On top of that it gains a PITIFUL 6.7% extra heal from 422 willpower for a whopping .06dps/willpower.


Gork'll Fix it
Pre 1.05 260 Willpower 255
Pre 1.05 682 Willpower 312
1.05 260 Willpower 234
1.05 682 willpower 255
This heal was nerfed by 18.3%. It gained a 18.3% extra heal from 422 willpower pre-patch(.18 dps/willpower). After patch it gains 8.3% extra heal(.08dps/willpower) from 422 willpower because "The stat contribution for this ability has been fixed" ya this spell was fixed...no really it was.

Bigger Better and Greener
Pre 1.05 260 Willpower 1281
Pre 1.05 682 Willpower 1533
1.05 260 Willpower 1281
1.05 682 willpower 1533
This spell was unchanged from 1.05. It gains 16.5% from 422 willpower(.165dps/willpower). Also if they implement the .5sec reduction and lower the interrupt like they say they might that'll definitely help. I still believe it should be 2seconds.

In conclusion our hots were severely nerfed and the nerf wasn't needed at all. Our big heal should have been buffed instead. Also our willpower is pretty much useless for 3/4 of my shamans heals the 4th one should get a bit more from willpower. Mythic drove off a cliff when it came to healers and i REALLY hope they can get back up soon.

This is really sad indeed. I really don't like to see this because I have an alt which is a Shaman and I wanted to play it because of the HoTs + Long heal and seeing these numbers, it will kill the Shaman. It might look the same for the Archmage, since they are mirroir.

I really don't like to see this, by nerfing the healing, you'll kill your own game Mythic.. because in a MMO, healers are needed and if there's no healers people will leave really fast because there will be no fun at just killing without any teamwork possible.

[Stormblazer]

Another update:

With a second round of extensive testing, I'm convinced the willpower scaling coefficient HAS been increased for Rune of Regeneration. Certainly it is not 0.3hpw like it's reported to be on Live, that's for sure.

I can't seem to nail down the exact coefficient, it's somewhere between 0.46 and 0.49 I think.

However, I'm inclined to say 0.48, and here's why:
Previously, Rune of Regeneration had 5 ticks. There are now 8 ticks, so a 60% increase in number of ticks. The old scaling for Regeneration is 0.3hpw. 0.3*1.6 = 0.48

[Effi]

Aside from the main point about the massive loss of healing power, these numbers have really opened my eyes to how mistaken I have been in stacking willpower. I had no idea all my willpower was having such an insignificant difference, and I'd be better off aiming for survivability stats or even intelligence for more offensive-style play.

[Stormblazer]

Aside from the main point about the massive loss of healing power, these numbers have really opened my eyes to how mistaken I have been in stacking willpower. I had no idea all my willpower was having such an insignificant difference, and I'd be better off aiming for survivability stats or even intelligence for more offensive-style play.
It HAD a strong significance for Rune of Mending, it was the only spell with reasonable scaling until this patch.

Also, my numbers don't include Rune of Restoration or Blessing of Valaya, both of which do get half-decent scaling of 0.6hpw (per person in the case of BoV).

I'm thinking I'm going to put together a massive spreadsheet for 1.05 vs live that details all heals vs willpower.

[ruktuim]

I'd love to see everyone else's numbers and feedback about the changes to the 3 second heals.


Live Server 3 Second Heal Vs Test Server 3 Second Heal.


Live Server: Heals: 885
Speed: 3.0 (Avg speed with push back over 100 casts, 5.0 seconds)
HPS: 177

Test Server: Heals: 855
Speed: 2.5 (Avg speed with push back over 100 casts, 4.47 seconds)
HPS: 197.99


Results:
Heals: The Same
Speed: 0.5 Faster on Test (Avg speed with push back over 100 casts, 0.53 seconds faster)
HPS: 20.99 More HPS on Test Server.

[Stormblazer]

I'd love to see everyone else's numbers and feedback about the changes to the 3 second heals.


Live Server 3 Second Heal Vs Test Server 3 Second Heal.


Live Server: Heals: 885
Speed: 3.0 (Avg speed with push back over 100 casts, 5.0 seconds)
HPS: 177

Test Server: Heals: 855
Speed: 2.5 (Avg speed with push back over 100 casts, 4.47 seconds)
HPS: 197.99


Results:
Heals: The Same
Speed: 0.5 Faster on Test (Avg speed with push back over 100 casts, 0.53 seconds faster)
HPS: 20.99 More HPS on Test Server.
Now if only they'd fix Master Rune of Speed on PTS (it's working fine on live but broken on test) hehe.
I'll confirm also that the scaling on 3s cast has not changed- it wasn't supposed to, but you never know so I did test it. It's still 0.6hpw like on live.

[Rawblin]

Forgive me if I'm off here Storm, but I was under the impression that Willpower was calculated for healing spells in a different way.

You stated: BaseHealing + Willpower*HealingPerWillpower

The only equation I have ever used is (Willpower*0.2[Rounded Down])*CastTimeMultiplier + BaseHealing.

So for example. Boon of Hysh (BBAG). 3s cast time. Using my stats as a 30 AM on Live:

([535 Will*0.2]*3) + 948 = 1269

The cast multiplier is currently 1.5 for instant casts, 2.0 for 1s cast spells, and 3.0 for 3s cast spells. Funnel Essence, my 3s duration channeled heal, has a 4.0 multiplier. Though I am not certain as to exactly why.

So, are you performing some variation of this calculation, or something entirely different?

[Stormblazer]

Forgive me if I'm off here Storm, but I was under the impression that Willpower was calculated for healing spells in a different way.

You stated: BaseHealing + Willpower*HealingPerWillpower

The only equation I have ever used is (Willpower*0.2[Rounded Down])*CastTimeMultiplier + BaseHealing.

So for example. Boon of Hysh (BBAG). 3s cast time. Using my stats as a 30 AM on Live:

([535 Will*0.2]*3) + 948 = 1269

The cast multiplier is currently 1.5 for instant casts, 2.0 for 1s cast spells, and 3.0 for 3s cast spells. Funnel Essence, my 3s duration channeled heal, has a 4.0 multiplier. Though I am not certain as to exactly why.

So, are you performing some variation of this calculation, or something entirely different?
My equation is a simplification of yours that also allows for oddities like the hybrid HoT (Healing Energy for AMs, Rune of Mending for RPs).
Example: Boon of Hysh / Rune of Restoration (identical) have 0.6 healing per willpower. 0.6 is simply 1/5 of 3.0, which is the cast time multiplier.

However, only a few straightforward spells like those have a cast time multiplier that is the actual cast time of the spell, and it gets confusing to use that wording when dealing with things like Master Rune of Speed, and it's even less true on the test server. Rune of Mending on live has a "cast time multiplier" of 4.0 (2.0 for direct, 2.0 for HoT) for example even though it's a 1s cast, and it's 1.5 on test (0.75 for direct, 0.75 for HoT). Rune of Regeneration on live follows the 1.5 rule for instant casts, but it's 2.4 on test. Rune of Restoration on test keeps the 3.0 "cast time multiplier" even though it's now a 2.5s cast on test.

I find it's just easier to use the "healing per willpower" notation, that's all.
Healing per willpower is just 1/5 the value of the "cast time multiplier" for any given spell.

Hope that makes sense, we're really using the same equation, I simply condensed mine for simplicity.

[Stormblazer]

I'd love to see everyone else's numbers and feedback about the changes to the 3 second heals.
Unfortunately for Rune priests, even with the change to 2.5s casts, it's still slower than Live if you're spec'd for Master Rune of Speed (which a lot of RPs are now that the memory leak is fixed), reason being that Master Rune of Speed is completely broken on test right now.

On live, for me, Rune of Restoration is a 2.25s cast pretty much all the time.
On test, it's 2.5s since I can't speed it up due to broken rune. If it was working, I'd have ~1.88 base cast time on the big heal. Needless to say, Master Rune of Speed better be fixed by Tuesday, or RPs are going to be even more unhappy than I'm sure most already are with the patch.

[Rawblin]

Ah ok, that makes perfect sense then. Thanks for the info Storm :)