Gatherers Please!

[Anahera]

First off, yes, I know we can grow and scavenge/butcher our own ingredients... I have ALL three skills on various toons, as well as guild members that also help with the ingredients. But sometimes I go on a Potion Making Binge, either because I have an overflowing amount of main ingredients or I'm low on potions.

WHAT IN THE HELL is up with these prices on the Auction House for waters?? (and just poking around some, looking at other ingredients... it's insane!)

Today on Brittonia, I did a search for Clutching Horse Leech, a Lvl 60 Main Ingredient for Heal Pots (I used to make lvl 20 pots with em, but now only seem to make lvl 35 pots with them). The ONLY ones that came up on the search (at the time) was 4 piles of 20 for 10g 54s EACH pile!!

Now think about it - Not even taking in consideration the price of the water or vials (which in this case, for me, is bought off the merchant and isn't expensive), that's over 50s PER POTION!! Never mind the actual labor. Wow, and you KNOW these are going to be the people that are screaming at the OUTRAGEOUS prices of potions on the Auction House!!

Well, when we get gouged for the price of the ingredients, we have no choice but to at LEAST get cost back for our troubles of supplying others with the potions they CHOOSE not to make themselves.

I even went as far as sending a "might want to consider" Mail to the guy with the outrageous price!

Now, granted, I don't ever shop FOR the horse leech myself, since the drop rate on them seems to be far more than anything else that drops, but I do pop in to the AH daily to check and see if there's any reasonably priced waters for sale, since heal pots tend to take 2x their own level for stabilization, and one can never have enough water!

My potion making "bottleneck" (pun intended) happens to be with bottles of water! The drop rate is poor when you take into consideration the drop rate of ingredients (the horse leech especially) AND the fact that it's VERY common to have to use three bottles of water for ONE potion (sometimes you can get away with 2 "good" bottles, and one cloudy (which is bought off the merchant), for mid/high range heal pots, depending on your Apothecary skill level). Most of the time, the LOW price for waters around Lvl 100 is 20s each! (save the good deal from time to time, which I'm sure get snatched up REAL quick!)

As I've already ranted enough, I won't even go into the higher level jars ... but when a SINGLE lvl 100 vial runs 50s, and you have to add 20-40s just for the water (remember, these are the CHEAP prices I'm viewing on the AH) ... it's the ingredient sellers that are setting the future price of the potions at near a GOLD PER POTION just so the crafter can recover the cost to make the potion.

If the sellers (that DON'T have a main craft) would do a little research, and then a little math, they'd realize that there would be a larger supply of end products on the market if they'd just charge reasonable prices for items that they are LOOTING and obtaining at NO cost!

I hit 125 Apoth in early October. Since that was about the level that the merchant sold Cloudy Waters weren't enough any more, I had to find other means of obtaining water, as the speed I was scavenging wasn't enough to keep up with my demands. I've been watching the water prices on the AH since. Crafters that are itching for that NEXT skill gain may be willing to pay the occasional higher price, just to get that satisfaction of getting another gain, but once we are at 200, baby, we are only doing this for you - the players that want the benefits of the potions without having to go thru the trouble or take the time to make your own.

Mythic/EA implemented this (what I consider a sorry excuse for) crafting method with the hopes that the end product would be a joint effort involving several different professions... it's a delicate circle happening here.

Cheaper prices for the ingredients (and a ready supply for the ones that DO want to take the time to learn the Main Trade) comes back as a blessing for the 'gatherers' with a plentiful and inexpensive supply of end products. Be it potions or talismans.

C'mon guys, help your neighbor out and ease up on the prices ... in the end EVERYONE will benefit!

*Personally, I consider a "reasonable" price to be between 2x and 3x what the merchant would buy the item for. Even the AH defaults to 2x the "sellback" as the Buy Now Price.

[Azureal]

Nothing that even passes somewhat as an economy. Meaning there is no supply and demand. Theres no repair bills. Theres no dependancy, as the devs would like.

Two major tradeskills that anyone can have (so theoretically 50% of the population will have one or the other). Meaning that theres a good chance any given character can simply make the potions they want when they want them, or have an alt do it for them. You wont ever get an economy if everyone can have a no sacrifice tradeskill (and by that, Im refering to games like SWG and UO, where if you took a tradeskill, it was at the cost of other skills, SWG more than UO due to multiple characters).

More money than people know what to do with. Meaning you can charge what you like, eventually someone is gonna buy it. Theres more than enouhg useless gold shinies out there

One location for AH and Vault. Meaning that when people finally get around to selling stuff, theyre going to want plenty for it. Me personally, I sell everything except high level curios and water to NPC vendors. Curios make me a lot of money. And I charge through the roof. And Ive got around 15 stacks of level 150 water in the bank. Same goes for 100 and 150 vials.

In the end, youre going to have to rely on yourself to get the water you need. The Water:MI ratio for gors is about 1:3, meaning youll get 1 water for every 3 MIs that drop. So sell the bulk 160 and 165 leeches to NPC vendors for 75silver a stack, and start building a cash cow. Save all the high level curios you find, as well as goldweed seeds (1-2g a pop they sell easy) and sell them on the AH. The money you make from NPCs and the AH can be used to buy the water you "need".

Theres not much else you can hope for. Those looking for a robust and well rounded, well thought out crafting system are certainly not about to find it in Warhammer Online.

[Gzugzuu]

First off, yes, I know we can grow and scavenge/butcher our own ingredients...

I really don't mean to come across as a jerk, but I think you're blowing this totally out of proportion. You know you can go get the stabilizers yourself, but you're just too lazy to do it. So, now your laziness forces you to rely on other people for materials and they are charging you more than you want to pay, and you are upset about it. So, in essence, you are crying because you're lazy. Sorry, but I feel absolutely no sympathy for you.

[Anahera]

Gzugzuu, Did you even READ the post? Or just look at the first line and judge me from that?

I do plenty of grinding for levels out in PQs, doing kill tasks, and simply running around killing things to get my 1k kills for tome unlocks, and I scavenge EVERYTHING that allows me to. So lazy is NOT a word that describes me at all. I end up with roughly 200-300 waters in my personal vault by the time I sit down and spend a day crafting. (both Apothecary on my main and Cultivating on an alt) Unfortunately, I end up with about twice that amount in higher level leeches, which seems WAY backwards to me.

However, I am also one that LOVES sitting back from time to time and crafting, filling my vault with potions that I'll use in RVR and use while I'm out grinding in PvE.

If you also notice where I said my scavenging wasn't keeping up with the demands of the potion making. I usually spend 3-4 days a week where I do nothing but grind XP, Tome Unlocks (1k kills) and PQs and some questing along the way (and scavenge EVERYTHING that gives me the pliers icon!) Hell, there are times when I run around PQs just scavenging other people's kills!. 1-2 days a week are spent organizing my loots that I send to various alts thru the mail, as I have a cultivator and the bf has a Talisman Maker, crafting and setting up auctions with extra gear and such. When I do the potion making, if my water supply allows, I will make in the area of 200-300 potions, I stock the guild vault up pretty good, fill up my personal vault (my witch elf is a potions addict) and keep my lowbie toons stocked with potions appropriate for their levels also.

Sometimes I throw some RVR in there, and it's really hard to see flies over a dead body and NOT scavenge it!! Gotten me in trouble a few times, but it's habbit!!

The point of my post was simply that if the price of the ingredients were a little lower, the supply of the potions would be greater (and less expensive) in the AH. But, at least on my server, potions go VERY quick on the auction house, which implies that the demand for them is much higher than the supply.

[Gzugzuu]

Gzugzuu, Did you even READ the post? Or just look at the first line and judge me from that?

Yes, I read your post before replying. I even reread it now to make sure I didn't miss anything.

Based on your second post, it seems like you are trying to say that the proportion of Main Ingredient drops to Stabilizer drops is too offset. (I might be partially inclined to agree with this statement.)

But, you still bring it all back down to price...

The point of my post was simply that if the price of the ingredients were a little lower, the supply of the potions would be greater (and less expensive) in the AH. But, at least on my server, potions go VERY quick on the auction house, which implies that the demand for them is much higher than the supply.

You are still choosing to pay for things you can get for free, because you are trying to have one character supply potions for all your alts and your entire guild. Supplying materials on this scale is supposed to require collaboration from several players and not just one.

My original impression still sticks. I feel no sympathy for you, sorry.

If you choose to pay for something that you admit is rare, and you don't want to do the extra work to gather the quantities you need (or enlist friends to help), then you need to be prepared to pay the price.

[Anahera]

If you choose to pay for something that you admit is rare, and you don't want to do the extra work to gather the quantities you need (or enlist friends to help), then you need to be prepared to pay the price.

From the first line of my original post:
First off, yes, I know we can grow and scavenge/butcher our own ingredients... I have ALL three skills on various toons, as well as guild members that also help with the ingredients. But sometimes I go on a Potion Making Binge, either because I have an overflowing amount of main ingredients or I'm low on potions.

I have ONE toon that I play... so she is my scavenger. My other toons are very low level, I don't play them to level, they are my "other" crafters, like salvaging, cultivating. Ones that don't have to kill to 'get' the items.

Still boils down to the fact that the *point* of the post isn't what I'm willing to do/not to do... it's the fact that the price of the ingredients ultimately determines the price (and the supply) of the potions for those that don't want to take the time to craft themselves.

I have plenty of waters that i collect myself, and get from others in my guild. BUT when I have a large amounts of potions, and I decide to put them up for sale on the AH, my pricing decision comes from pricing the ingredients that are on the AH at the time... since there's rarely any potions for me to compete with. Which ends up being the suppliers being the ones to set the prices for the potions.