Sorcs > BW after patch.

[tbox]

Mark just recently said that sorcs will have their stack dot debuff resist like BW' boil blood. What he failed to understand is Sorcs get a 20% bonus damage tactic to make up for the lack of a resist debuff.

So unless Mythic gives BW a infernal gift tactic then this is a huge buff to Sorcs making them > BW. As if shadow Knvies did not pwn Backdraft.


Add in Dok's snare proc and crit blocker just making it more and more painful to play order.

[DoctorTran]

Add in Dok's snare proc and crit blocker just making it more and more painful to play order.

This got removed, so you can't leverage this argument any longer. Also, as long as BW still have the Withering Heat snare and an instant silence, I am still of the opinion that they are relatively equal.

[PinkysBrain]

DoK snare proc is gone and your single target dots are still better, you still have your snare on your channeling spell.

As for Shadow knifes vs. Backdraft ... you don't need any new abilities at that point to equal Shadow Knifes, all it has over a Flame Breath+Annihilate combo is AP efficiency. Yet another powerful CC ability is just gravy.

[PinkysBrain]

DoctorTran : they have already said they would remove the casting time on the Sorc silence.

[MrGrimm999]

*EDITED for content*

[TempestReborne]

*EDITED for content*

[tbox]

*EDITED for content*


So any group that is smart infernal gift is huge. Sorcs are getting insta silence.

Ignition is a joke compared to 3 aoe sorcs with infernat gift up even if it does not stack close quaters + infernal gift = dead order.

[Draxas]

Mark just recently said that sorcs will have their stack dot debuff resist like BW' boil blood. What he failed to understand is Sorcs get a 20% bonus damage tactic to make up for the lack of a resist debuff.

So unless Mythic gives BW a infernal gift tactic then this is a huge buff to Sorcs making them > BW. As if shadow Knvies did not pwn Backdraft.


Add in Dok's snare proc and crit blocker just making it more and more painful to play order.
Infernal Gift does not affect the Sorc himself, you need at least 2 in the group to leverage this. Shadow Knives is basically a copy of Pit of Shades that doesn't last as long, with less of a cooldown. I'm pretty sure that having an AOE knockback would be preferable to the majority of sorcs, it would help a lot with survivability.

[Broloc]

*EDITED for content*

ignition is currently broken and only noobs use it.

in the end sorcs have better burst dmg, so when you do 1v1 against the classes sorcs will usually win on the single dmg department.

if the sorc doesnt die by the silence and SDaR the BW will lose 90% of the time, unless of course he uses a 1gold pot.

the snare in whitering heat won´t favor the BW in this fight, since both are usually stationary casting their spells. Unless of course the terrain favors either and they can los easily.

[Greavious]

P.S. Lawl
P.P.S. You do realise that infernal gift doesn't actually work on the Sorc, just everyone else in group

lol ..That just made him a sad Panda.

[TempestReborne]

So any group that is smart infernal gift is huge. Sorcs are getting insta silence.

Ignition is the Bright Wizard counterpart to Infernal Gift. It increases damage against a target from between 20 to 40%, depending on their current resistances/armor.

The difference is, of course, that Infernal Gift is party-locked but target-independent, and Ignition is party-independent, but target-locked.

Of course, Ignition actually affects the Bright Wizard as well.


These changes really only bring the Sorceress closer to the Bright Wizard. In no way will they surpass them.
Cauterize, Detonate, R1+R2 Morales, Playing With Fire (even nerfed, it's still a powerful healing debuff, which Sorceresses have nothing comparable to), a far more synergistic setup for all three of their trees, but Immolation especially -- there are plenty of things that make Bright Wizards outright better than Sorceresses. So long as these exist, Bright Wizards will continue to make up a fifth to a quarter of T4 players Order-side. Sorceresses barely pass 15% of T4 players Destruction-side.

[superozzo]

Ignition (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8209) is the Bright Wizard counterpart to Infernal Gift. It increases damage against a target from between 20 to 40%, depending on their current resistances/armor.

The difference is, of course, that Infernal Gift is party-locked but target-independent, and Ignition is party-independent, but target-locked.

Of course, Ignition actually affects the Bright Wizard as well.


These changes really only bring the Sorceress closer to the Bright Wizard. In no way will they surpass them.
Cauterize, Detonate, R1+R2 Morales, Playing With Fire (even nerfed, it's still a powerful healing debuff, which Sorceresses have nothing comparable to), a far more synergistic setup for all three of their trees, but Immolation especially -- there are plenty of things that make Bright Wizards outright better than Sorceresses. So long as these exist, Bright Wizards will continue to make up a fifth to a quarter of T4 players Order-side. Sorceresses barely pass 15% of T4 players Destruction-side.

Yeah, sorcs are so bad that each time I go into my T3 scenario therre are 4-5 sorcs on the opposing team.

[Broloc]

Ignition (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8209) is the Bright Wizard counterpart to Infernal Gift. It increases damage against a target from between 20 to 40%, depending on their current resistances/armor.

The difference is, of course, that Infernal Gift is party-locked but target-independent, and Ignition is party-independent, but target-locked.

Of course, Ignition actually affects the Bright Wizard as well.


These changes really only bring the Sorceress closer to the Bright Wizard. In no way will they surpass them.
Cauterize, Detonate, R1+R2 Morales, Playing With Fire (even nerfed, it's still a powerful healing debuff, which Sorceresses have nothing comparable to), a far more synergistic setup for all three of their trees, but Immolation especially -- there are plenty of things that make Bright Wizards outright better than Sorceresses. So long as these exist, Bright Wizards will continue to make up a fifth to a quarter of T4 players Order-side. Sorceresses barely pass 15% of T4 players Destruction-side.

Sadly this beautiful tactic isn´t working and should't be mentioned at all when comparing Sorcs vs. Bw. Obviously it will gain weight once it gets fixed but if the current broken state of the tactic maintains then comparing skills isn't truly relevant.

Ignition does not proc after the initial dot, that's the problem.

[TempestReborne]

ignition is currently broken and only noobs use it.

in the end sorcs have better burst dmg, so when you do 1v1 against the classes sorcs will usually win on the single dmg department.

if the sorc doesnt die by the silence and SDaR the BW will lose 90% of the time, unless of course he uses a 1gold pot.

the snare in whitering heat won´t favor the BW in this fight, since both are usually stationary casting their spells. Unless of course the terrain favors either and they can los easily.

Ignition is not "broken." It's just bugged. It only procs on the application of Ignite, rather than the ticks. I have a sneaking suspicion that the upcoming change to DoT mechanics (mainly how they interact with roots) will inadvertently fix the issue with Ignition as well.

Further, your claim that Sorceresses have better burst damage is an outright lie.
The Immolation tree is just so good that very few Bright Wizards bother specializing in their burst tree. A Fireball Barrage + Withering Heat build simply cannot be matched in burst potential, especially when the wielder gets the extra points from RR to sink into more of the abilities the build skips over.

And, honestly, do you really believe that a Sorceress has any way of recovering from 8 seconds of inability to do anything, which they cannot counter because the Bright Wizard abilities that allow them to do this are instant?
The upcoming change to Stricken Voices making it instant as well will help make the fight less one-sided, if anything.

[TempestReborne]

Yeah, sorcs are so bad that each time I go into my T3 scenario therre are 4-5 sorcs on the opposing team.

Sorceresses are not bad. I never claimed they were.

I do, however, take offense to any ridiculous claim that they somehow surpass Bright Wizards.

[tbox]

So any group that is smart infernal gift is huge. Sorcs are getting insta silence.

Ignition is a joke compared to 3 aoe sorcs with infernat gift up even if it does not stack close quaters + infernal gift = dead order.


Infernal gift is much much better then Ignition also one is a base ability the other is not. Focus fire means jack compared to aoe melt. With 22k kills and being an elder tester don't try to claim my logic is wrong. 2 sorcs aoe with infernal gift close quarters > 2 assisting bright wizards with ignition. The former can defend a keep from 20 and the later can kill 1 person realy fast.

[TempestReborne]

Infernal gift is much much better then Ignition also one is a base ability the other is not. Focus fire means jack compared to aoe melt. With 22k kills and being an elder tester don't try to claim my logic is wrong. 2 sorcs aoe with infernal gift close quarters > 2 assisting bright wizards with ignition. The former can defend a keep from 20 and the later can kill 1 person realy fast.

They both have their strengths and weaknesses.

To claim that the benefits of Infernal Gift somehow outweigh the numerous advantages Bright Wizards have over Sorceresses is ridiculous.

I don't care who you are, or how experienced you claim to be. It's clear that you are biased. Your original post has no real information. It just sounds like bitterness to me. Bitterness at some imagined slight against Bright Wizards in Mythic's attempt to make Sorceresses their equal.

It doesn't belong in this forum regardless.

[tbox]

*EDITED for content*

[TempestReborne]

You sound like a biased defender of sorcs and that does not belong on this forum regardless.

And yet I have supplied information with my posts, defended my points adequately, and you have not.

I won't get into a bickering debate with you. So this ends now.

[tbox]

And yet I have supplied information with my posts, defended my points adequately, and you have not.

I won't get into a bickering debate with you. So this ends now.

As have I. Just because you disagree does not make your points right and mine wrong. . Sorry buddy..

[Shark321]

Almost everybody forgets this.

BW has 1 baseline method of CC:

PBAE Root

Sorc has 3 baseline methods of CC:

PBAE Root
Snarebolt
Disarm

With the current changes Sorc/BW will have comparable damage, but Sorc way better CC.

[Gromzor]

Gotta love watching the Rdps argue over who is more OP.

I have a dot that does 112 DD followed by 198 over 9 seconds..with no range. But..it stacks 3 times!! But...it doesn't tick while stacking. Oh, and it has a 5 FOOT range.

My best direct damage ability does less dps than either of your spammable DD abilities...at a 5 FOOT range. Granted you have an interruptable cast bar and less survivability. But you have better DPS at a 100' range and better escape mechanisms.

Oh and your AOE's are higher dps too.

Bottom line: my increased survivability does not offeset your range AND higher dps.

[tbox]

Gotta love watching the Rdps argue over who is more OP.

I have a dot that does 112 DD followed by 198 over 9 seconds..with no range. But..it stacks 3 times!! But...it doesn't tick while stacking. Oh, and it has a 5 FOOT range.

My best direct damage ability does less dps than either of your spammable DD abilities...at a 5 FOOT range. Granted you have an interruptable cast bar and less survivability. But you have better DPS at a 100' range and better escape mechanisms.

Oh and your AOE's are higher dps too.

Bottom line: my increased survivability does not offeset your range AND higher dps.

Yeah Rdps is really good. I just want equality between sides. Getting sick of seeing some these classes on one side become vastly better then another.
Just becasue 70% of the players in warhammer play destro should not equate to stronger classes for destro.

Witch elf > Witchhunter
Muarder > White lion

Dok > Warrior priest

To name a few.

As beta testers we said all this and got ignored.

[Sparklehorse]

Well if this is indeed true, we should take a page out of the destruction playbook and post multiple threads on every board about how OP Sorcerors/esses are. We must set our whine meters to FULL and make this a daily ritual.

We must take many many screenshots of the leader boards after scenarios and recant many magical tales about how a sorceress took down 5 people in an rvr lake solo and make many threats about how we are quitting the game if they dont "fix" it.

This is how to get things done.

The fact is that the sorceror/ess class has always been just as scary to order as the BW has been to destruction. The fact that order didn't cry as loud about Sorcerors/esses being op may come back to bite them on the bum.

[Caeli]

Yeah Rdps is really good. I just want equality between sides. Getting sick of seeing some these classes on one side become vastly better then another.
Just becasue 70% of the players in warhammer play destro should not equate to stronger classes for destro.

Witch elf > Witchhunter
Muarder > White lion

Dok > Warrior priest

To name a few.

As beta testers we said all this and got ignored.

Yeah Rdps is really good. I just want equality between sides. Getting sick of seeing some these classes on one side become vastly better then another.
Just because 30% of the players in warhammer play order should not equate to stronger classes for order.

BW > Sorc
Engi > Magus
IB > all destro tanks
RP > Zealot
SW > SH

To name a few.

As beta testers we said all this and got ignored.

cwhutididthere?

[Plunkies]

Yeah Rdps is really good. I just want equality between sides. Getting sick of seeing some these classes on one side become vastly better then another.
Just becasue 70% of the players in warhammer play destro should not equate to stronger classes for destro.

Witch elf > Witchhunter
Muarder > White lion

Dok > Warrior priest

To name a few.

As beta testers we said all this and got ignored.

Funny. Yeah that totally makes up for the BW being the strongest class in the game by far. The only one that isn't arguable is WE > WH, and everyone knows mdps is worthless anyway.

[Browncoat-WHA]

Folks, let me remind you of the zero tolerance sticky we placed at the top of the forum. Learn it, live it, love it. And we mean it. So no nonsense bickering please.

This thread is done.

*LOCKED with a picture frame*