the only class i find the least bit dissapointing

[Halcyon]

yeah that says it all. they are not present at all in the lore, and do not seem to my mind to be nescessary to the game. why the "blazing sun"???? to my knowledge the empire has never had any obsession/religous affiliation with the sun...so why? why not just like a great swordsman or something? they also seem to have an almost aztec look to them (what with the bright feathers and all) that seems innapropriate to me. thoughts?

[Hive]

yeah that says it all. they are not present at all in the lore, and do not seem to my mind to be nescessary to the game. why the "blazing sun"???? to my knowledge the empire has never had any obsession/religous affiliation with the sun...so why? why not just like a great swordsman or something? they also seem to have an almost aztec look to them (what with the bright feathers and all) that seems innapropriate to me. thoughts?
http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/empire/painting/knights/gallery/blazingsun.htm

They've been around for awhile. They're based more on crusade era knights who've picked up worshipping a foriegn goddess.

[Nordug]

I don't find them dissapointing. They don't worship the sun, they worship Myrmidia the Goddess of warfare. wiki on the knightly orders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knightly_Orders_(Warhammer))

[Halcyon]

ok. in the link it says they are a small order and mostly unknown...so why did gw/mythic pick this order? they seem so specific...so specialized. i love the other empire classes. as an example of what i would like in place of the blazing sun order...not too specific...
ULRIC!!!!!! AWESOME WOLF THEMED CLOSE COMBAT POWER!!!

[Hive]

ok. in the link it says they are a small order and mostly unknown...so why did gw/mythic pick this order? they seem so specific...so specialized. i love the other empire classes. as an example of what i would like in place of the blazing sun order...not too specific...
ULRIC!!!!!! AWESOME WOLF THEMED CLOSE COMBAT POWER!!!

Realitively small... like an elephant is relatively small to a blue whale.

As to the unknown part, they are talking about Myrmidia (she was unknown to most of the empire until the knights had the battle at her shrine).

[Nordug]

Also if I remember correctly The Blazing Sun is the only order which allow females (not sure though) that would be a good reason to pick 'em.

[Truce]

so why did gw/mythic pick this order? they seem so specific...so specialized.

They gave several reasons for it, actually. You can find the exact quotes in the dev tracker, but basically it came down to the following:

1 - Knights of the Blazing Sun are known to roam around the Empire, offering their services wherever they are needed. This fits the archetypical playstyle of an MMORPG character.

2 - The Knights of the Blazing Sun are known to be skilled tacticians, which fit in nicely with the "battle command" mechanic.

3 - The warrior priest already represents the more fanatical and pious elements of the Empire. The Knight of the Blazing Sun is a contrast to them, with their more strategic and pragmatic approach to warfare.

4 - Mythic just liked their general lore and associated visual imagery.

[Halcyon]

well it looks like you may make a beleiver out of me yet! the important thing is that there are enough people that want to play that class to make it viable and balanced in the game. and the responses here are definitely convincing.

[kingsword]

Aztec feathers? Go check out some renaissance era paintings with knights in them, they wore no less plumes.

[Flegler]

Aztec feathers? Go check out some renaissance era paintings with knights in them, they wore no less plumes.

The helmets we've seen in screens look nothing like what a real knight would have worn though. This is quite worrying to me. That sense of historical accuracy is the main appeal of the Knight's look.

Also if I remember correctly The Blazing Sun is the only order which allow females (not sure though) that would be a good reason to pick 'em.
Games Workshop have never said anything about each Knightly Order's stance on gender equality. It's slightly more plausible that the Blazing Suns would admit women since their patron goddess was once a mortal woman warrior, but really there's nothing stopping them from declaring that every order regularly fields female knights. Except possibly the Knights of the White Wolf, they're far too proud of their beards.

[Flegler]

well it looks like you may make a beleiver out of me yet!
Never surrender! Restricting players to a single order of knights is a silly idea, and let nobody tell you otherwise. All it does is make us all dress in black and yellow.

[Thoden Firehammer]

The helmets we've seen in screens look nothing like what a real knight would have worn though. This is quite worrying to me. That sense of historical accuracy is the main appeal of the Knight's look.


.... This isn't history, it's Warhammer.

Also.

http://www.ancient-weapons.com/gifs/medieval-helmets.jpg

http://www.aceros-de-hispania.com/image/links_subseccions/helmets.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8564045@N03/530506443/

I'd like to mind you that this isn't the first time in history that people put feathers in their helmets, i'll reference to one of Alexander's battles.

It is said by the historian who cronicled his conquest that in the battles with durias ((probably spelt it wrong)) that he wore feathers in his helm

[Flegler]

.... This isn't history, it's Warhammer.
What makes the Warhammer World so awesome is that the creators have no qualms whatsoever in stealing all the best bits from fantasy and history.

What makes the Empire especially awesome is that all its cultural baggage is lifted from the 16th Century Holy Roman Empire instead of being some generic mediaeval-human-land. This game needs to reflect the Empire's distinctive style.

And I'm not complaining about having plumes on my helmet. Plumes are awesome. It's the helmet itself that's badly designed. Let's see some visors and gorgets, for Sigmar's sake.

[Konrad Siegesruf]

I myself was a bit sceptical at first about the Knight of the Blazing Sun, well until i read their lore. Also, i can't wait to see some of the helms in the KotBS concept arts, especially that of the T4(The first WAR art we saw of them).

[kingsword]

It's the helmet itself that's badly designed. Let's see some visors and gorgets, for Sigmar's sake.

My avatar wears one with a lowerable visor. ;) Also not every helm had the face covered, you can see good examples on Medieval 2 HRE unit zweihanders. Without armor upgrade, they look like T3 geared KotBS and upgraded, like T4, without the blazing sun motifs of course. :)

What would be awesome: Visored helmets being closed during combat and open out of combat!

Here (http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/9797/hrehelmxw1.jpg) are the HRE helmets I mentioned.

[Flegler]

This (http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/images/careers/KOBS_09.jpg) looks kinda crappy, is all I am saying.

[MageLite]

I'm going with Flegler, That helmet doesn't look very Empire-ish.

[Konrad Siegesruf]

Aye, but i can't for this baby: http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/images/conceptArt/12192006_06.jpg

[Boulvae]

That Entire Knight looked like crap, I mean if you look closely his plate on his chest moves like a bloody shirt!!! And some of those plate pieces look like their just part of pants he's wearing (I mean fused or just painted on). And it looks like his armours made of stone.

[kingsword]

T3 vs T4, of course there are different degrees of coolness along the progress path. I'd prefer it like that instead of WoW's tier 2 Judgement & Field Marshal sets blowing away T3/4/5/6. :D

[Halcyon]

yeah the knights still seem a bit flamboyant for my taste. the most important thing however is that there are enough people out there who want to play them. thats all that really matters, this game must not flop in any way shape or form! (cause then i would have to keep playing wow the rest of my life...)

[Ginsu]

When I first started to learn about this Empire, it became clear that their military, while professional, looks like a mixed batch of gear and weapons.

It's also clear that their style is over the top.. even rediclous at times. But thats the point.

Theres no reason to continue playing WOW if you don't want to, thats just silly.

[kingsword]

I'm not, except for helping friends with arena. And that's over as soon as they find someone to replace me.

WAR Empire's style is hardly over the top when you consider that they're modeled after HRE which employed landsknechts (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/Landsknechte.jpg) like this. :)

[Flegler]

I really, really hope we can wear those hats. They'd fit nicely over a helmet, and it's so much more Empire than the Witch Hunter's Puritan get-up.

[MageLite]

landsknechts (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/Landsknechte.jpg)

It's a pity there's nothing like that on the TT, except maybe the greatswords, they're spot on for the Empire's look and they're mercenaries so no go-where-your-told problems.

[Sun]

obsession/religous affiliation with the sun...so why? thoughts?

They don't worship the sun, they worship Myrmidia the Goddess of warfare.

Well, the Sun is, in a way, the origination of all myths and belief systems throughout the civilizations of mankind. In the real world, as far back as 10,000 B.C., history is abundant with carvings and writings reflecting peoples respect and adoration for it. Nearly every religion is inspired by the origins of Sun worship. It is the most adorned object of all time, and the lifeblood of our world. So, it's not too far fetched to see it emblazoned on a fantastical order of knights. It is a very strong symbol, and everyone is subconsciously reverent of it, because we've all lived our lives to this point relying on the sunrise every day. And yeah, you could say I'm a bit biased. :roll:

The KotBS is one of the coolest classes imo, even if some of the early-Alpha screenshots some of you are linking leave something to be desired. I'm sure they will improve on their appearance before release. At least we can hope, right?

[Taurth]

Just want to point out, saying "the only class I find the least bit disappointing" means you find all other classes disappointing, apart from the Knight of the Blazing Sun. :rolleyes:

[Nazriel]

While I can think of some Knight Orders that look more iconic to Empire from my point of view, without going on compromise and wise choosing of classes we would have only males running around. Adding Knights of the White Wolf in one of the expansions would make me swap my main though (however that class wouldn't fit into tank role because warriors of Ulric don't wear shields and helmets into battle).

[Ashbringer]

And as for the looks, the look is not aztec at all.

The skulls derive from the empire icons which are found in warhammer anyways, the armour itself is reannisance and the feathers and shirts are quite what was worn in central and western europe at that time. Especially in Italy/Germany, for example by the Landsknecht. But also in Spain, for example the Tericho Infanftry. I don't think that this kind of "sun" in one of the artworks would've been worn IRL, but its derived from European look.

So nothin' to do with those good ol' spanish sword-testers.

Edit: I don't understand why the armour should not look authentic. I think it's a quite good twist from what was worn IRL. What tKoBS is wearing is the kind of armour which developed after the late medieval ages, together with gun powder weapons. It took away the bulkiness of medieval armour and replaced it with armour protecting the most vital parts of a body but allowing far greater agility additional to that. So its some kind of mixture. I believe demi-lancers wore that kind of stuff.

http://www.ugopozzati.it/images/Corteo01.jpg

[Vaeronthar]

It is a very strong symbol, and everyone is subconsciously reverent of it, because we've all lived our lives to this point relying on the sunrise every day. And yeah, you could say I'm a bit biased. :roll:
Untrue. I, personally, don't really care for the sun. While I'm aware that my life would be impossible without it, I much prefer it shining on the other side of the world or behind clouds. In fact, its bright light and heat depress me and make me tired.

So, not everyone.

Edit: While gunpowder weapons do exist in Warhammer, they aren't produced and used by anyone but the Empire and the Dwarfs, who are the Empire's staunchest allies. Therefore, heavy plate armor is not only still useful, it is a very large advantage over the enemies of the Empire, few of which can produce armor as highly protective.

Edit2: Also Estalians and Tileans. Who have a relatively cool relationship with the Empire and Dwarfs.

[Ashbringer]

Untrue. I, personally, don't really care for the sun. While I'm aware that my life would be impossible without it, I much prefer it shining on the other side of the world or behind clouds. In fact, its bright light and heat depress me and make me tired.

So, not everyone.

Edit: While gunpowder weapons do exist in Warhammer, they aren't produced and used by anyone but the Empire and the Dwarfs, who are the Empire's staunchest allies. Therefore, heavy plate armor is not only still useful, it is a very large advantage over the enemies of the Empire, few of which can produce armor as highly protective.

Edit2: Also Estalians and Tileans. Who have a relatively cool relationship with the Empire and Dwarfs.

That's true, but I guess that they just worship this war goddess which happen to have the sun as a symbol. If it would've been a hammer, it would've been another hammer-symbol within the Empire. And for the cool relations, that does not really matter, since the Knights do not worship the people or want to have good relations with them, but they only worship a goddess which descended from Estalian land. But apart from that, they're from all over the Empire, though mostly southern. And I guess those mentalisties can vastly change throughout each region, since IF the Empire should be orientated towards the RL HRE, its a bloody fiefdom with its own rules etc. for every darn village, if you're really unlucky. So you can't really say things too easily for the whole Empire.

You're right though with the gunpowder, but the armour still is rennaisance-like, though very much eeeaaaaaarly, since it's still full-body protection. But I saw some of that stuff IRL, and it's obviously developed out of Knight's armour but it's like putting together old and new. And the new stuff then would be the feathers and the kind of how the armour looks like a shirt etc.

[Vaeronthar]

...Huh?

All I'm saying is, the Empire doesn't fight enemies who use gunpowder thmeselves often, so plate armor is still highly valuable.

[Ashbringer]

...Huh?

All I'm saying is, the Empire doesn't fight enemies who use gunpowder thmeselves often, so plate armor is still highly valuable.

Ah, don't bother.

It's just me, I like to have an argument now and then. :rolleyes:
You're right there, as long as the Empire doesn't fight itself (do they actually? Like Duke against Duke or such?)

[Konrad Siegesruf]

Ah, don't bother.

It's just me, I like to have an argument now and then. :rolleyes:
You're right there, as long as the Empire doesn't fight itself (do they actually? Like Duke against Duke or such?)

There are usually rivalries between the Elector Counts, but these are usually stopped by diplomacy(Mostly Karl Franz intervening). Though another method had to be brought in to stop a civil war between Nordland and Hochland, Karl Franz had to send Balthasar Gelt to Nordland, where he transmuted the gold to be used by the Elector Count of Nordland into lead. :)

[Ashbringer]

There are usually rivalries between the Elector Counts, but these are usually stopped by diplomacy(Mostly Karl Franz intervening). Though another method had to be brought in to stop a civil war between Nordland and Hochland, Karl Franz had to send Balthasar Gelt to Nordland, where he transmuted the gold to be used by the Elector Count of Nordland into lead. :)

And I guess that right now, all those anti-Imperial seperatists will get killed by the mass of Witchhunters. :p

[Nastu]

oh man... it's obvious how few of you actually know alot about the Warhammer IP. Makes a beardling cry :(

[Ashbringer]

oh man... it's obvious how few of you actually know alot about the Warhammer IP. Makes a beardling cry :(

Well, I only know 40k. But I would love to learn more. :)

(btw. that WH of me was a joke, I know that they usually tend to hunt chaos within the empire, and not seperatists.. but since you could call a political enemy an heretic in order to get rid of him...)

[Skwisgaar]

I really think there are other (read:ONE) options for awesome, lore present, kickass knight order.

Knights of the White Wolf.

There, I said it. If they were the empire tanking option, i wouldn't be rolling a IB now.

Are the "BS" knightys they even available as models?

I know I'm gonna recive all sorts of "oh no" and "XXX-order was better" and "sungod-ladida"

But look at it, these guys ing killed Vlad. Yes Vlad von Carstein, the infamous vampire count that terrorised Transsylvania for decades. (No comment on him riseing again 100 years after :D)

They kick , and i think this is the class im most dissapointed with tbh!

[Vaeronthar]

Psh. If The Templars of the Everlasting Light were an option, I'd take them long before KotWW.