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View Full Version : 1.06 and beyond


DoobieusIntent
11-21-2008, 06:10 PM
I have been playing WAR since open beta and it is my opinion that the game in general has only improved since I first saw it, and hopefully will continue to do so.

At this point the game is still in its infancy and likely will be much different 6 months from now. But there is one trend I have noticed that I do not like. Simply put, Mythic seems unable to balance classes between destruction and order. If this trend continues in 6 months Mythic may have lost enough of their fan base that the game could turn into swg.


As I play a Sorc I am sure some bias may shine through in the following example, but I still find it to be relevant. Below are the details for the Word of Pain spell in 1.06.

* Word of Pain: This ability will reduce the target's Willpower for 10 seconds, and deal damage at the end. The effect will no longer stack with each application.

During 1.05 on the PTS Word of Pain did a Spirit resist debuff, similar to the BW spell Boiling Blood. While the damage on Word of Pain would only tic after 15 seconds, which I found to be useless beside a DoT, the spell still had utility due to the resist debuff. It was my opinion, and that of many other Sorcs, that a Spirit resist debuff was a step in the right direction as it helped to address one of the central balance issues between the Sorc and BW.

Then comes 1.06, and Mythic brings back the Willpower debuff in favor of the Spirit debuff. It has been said, and I would go so far as to say it has been proven, that a Willpower debuff is essentially useless. Combine that with waiting 10sec for the damage to tic and you have a spell I can't imagine ever putting on my action bar, let alone using.

Can Mythic not recognize that they are taking a step in the wrong direction with this change? Or was it their intent to banish Word of Pain back to whence it came, to the group of abilities that honestly should have been left out of the game due to their uselessness?

I will not say that the BW is OP and should be nerfed, and I will not say that the Sorc is underpowered in comparison and deserves a buff. It is not my intent to try to prove either of those statements in this thread.

It is my intent to highlight the fact that one of the 2 serious steps Mythic has taken to balance the BW and Sorc (the other being the nerf to Playing With Fire) has now been cut from the game. Instead Mythic has buffed DoTs across the board, and I think we all know which class that will benefit the most.

Sparklehorse
11-23-2008, 10:18 AM
Maybe you should just play a bright wizard?

What about the Shaman and their slight edge over the archmage? How about the witch elf and their slight edge over the witch hunter? The black orc is miles better than the sword master.

The point is, no matter how many passes you make at it, there will never ever be absolute balance. All of these differences are minor and not really worth whining about. They are being looked at and balanced based on more things than you and I are even aware of.

You do realize that with the populations like they are, any nerf to order has to be taken very seriously. We survive against the juggernaut, zerg, destruction by a very thin hair on most servers and on some servers there is not a lot of hope for order, period.

If it bothers you that badly, just roll a bright wizard until they achieve perfect balance, just don't expect that to happen overnight. We know, based on what they have shown us, that Mythic is trying their best to balance class skills in a game where the populations are imbalanced. This is a very difficult task and I trust that they will do it in time but for now, order needs every little (and I want to emphasize the word little here) edge they can get.

Elathar
11-23-2008, 05:07 PM
For me it's not about total balance, more about that what they gave us now is again a spell no one needs, will use. That doesn't make much sense. Things should improve after they look at it and fix it.

If they fixed your "Boon" by reducing the casting time to 2.5 secs, but giving it a CD of 10 secs you'd also complain. Especially since they are still testing.

immunil
11-23-2008, 05:35 PM
The point is, no matter how many passes you make at it, there will never ever be absolute balance.

Something worth attempting though. As long as it does not result in absolute clones.

PinkysBrain
11-23-2008, 05:40 PM
What's wrong with clones?

immunil
11-23-2008, 05:43 PM
Well I like there being a bit of difference between the mirror classes at least :|. I guess Mythic do too else they would be clones.

It would certainly make life easier balancing mirror classes if they were clones, but still...

As long as people dont get too whiny about one mirror being slightly more powerful than the other its fine. However, theres nothing wrong with attempting to balance them.

PinkysBrain
11-23-2008, 05:50 PM
The main problem I see with the Sorc is Infernal Gift, as long as that tactic is in the game the Sorc will always have spells which are strictly inferior to BW spells.

PinkysBrain
11-24-2008, 07:23 AM
BTW, I see the BWs got another semi-buff in 1.06a ... their boiling blood duration has been reduced to 10 seconds (ie. DPS increase).

As I said though, as long as Sorcs have infernal gift their spells will suck in comparison ... the Sorcs can never expect to have equal spell power 1v1 with the BW as long as they have infernal gift. So if they want it they should ask for infernal gift to be nerfed.

Cozzy
11-24-2008, 06:27 PM
How does the change to it being a willpower debuff effect Healers?

Is the Willpower debuff significant enough to reduce a healer's capacity to heal effectively?

Elathar
11-24-2008, 08:15 PM
BTW, I see the BWs got another semi-buff in 1.06a ... their boiling blood duration has been reduced to 10 seconds (ie. DPS increase).

As I said though, as long as Sorcs have infernal gift their spells will suck in comparison ... the Sorcs can never expect to have equal spell power 1v1 with the BW as long as they have infernal gift. So if they want it they should ask for infernal gift to be nerfed.

Seems that you are wrong:

Originally Posted by Agershowitz_EAMythic
Hey guys.

I'll take a look into Detonate... We did have a fix in the original 1.0.5 patch notes about fixing the stat contribution on it. However that seemed to have gotten deleted when we put together the 1.0.6 notes.

Aside from that this thread has been VERY heated. I understand why as well, however Bright Wizards by far up and beyond any other career (including Sorc) were the complete reigning kings of damage by an very large margin. We had to bring you down, it wasn't an option to bring everyone else up.

Yes I know this sucks, but at the same time we tried to do it in such a way that you also took less damage (Lower miscast chance). Yes I know this seems like a pitiful bone to throw you for the damage reduction but it was appropriate.

Bringing the damage down will also allow us to go back in the next few patches and balance better between the 3 spec lines. We definately want to take a look at Immolation and Incineration and make them both match up better, but this was somthing we just couldn't do with the overall damage being as high as it was pre 1.0.6

-Adam

THis includes iIfernal Gift. Seems like BWs can do way more damage even with IG. So there is no reason to either bring BWs down to our level or get us up to yours. Seems at least what the devs are going for in the fututre.

PinkysBrain
11-24-2008, 11:14 PM
The Sorc doesn't benefit from the effect herself and there are rarely a lot of Sorcs on the same team ... plus since it doesn't show up on her own damage it will be rarely equipped (lets face it, most people aren't really team players in PUGs).

Do Destro premades really need another huge advantage just because PUGs don't effectively use the tools your classes have? (No, they don't.)

Elathar
11-25-2008, 04:44 AM
The Sorc doesn't benefit from the effect herself and there are rarely a lot of Sorcs on the same team ... plus since it doesn't show up on her own damage it will be rarely equipped (lets face it, most people aren't really team players in PUGs).

Do Destro premades really need another huge advantage just because PUGs don't effectively use the tools your classes have? (No, they don't.)

Or the whole thing is not as good as you make it : ).

The Devs just told us that Sorcs deal vastly less damage compared to a BW. Better get ready to see more BW nerfs or Sorc buffs until that is not the fact anymore.

But you seem a bit irrational in what you say, so probably I won't convince you of anything.

PinkysBrain
11-25-2008, 08:42 AM
Or the whole thing is not as good as you make it : ).
It adds another player worth of damage to a group ... how good you think that is is up to you and your rationality.

Elathar
11-26-2008, 06:50 AM
It adds another player worth of damage to a group ... how good you think that is is up to you and your rationality.

yeah sure ... another player .... that's the level you are arguing. Play a Sorcerer (or another Destruction class) and see how it works in reality. Sorry but you seem to have no idea.

PinkysBrain
11-26-2008, 07:47 AM
So ... say if you have a group of say 5 sorcs and a healer (DoK for the proc or Shaman for the occasional RDPS). It doesn't work like I describe?