OMG enough said new info from LOD about DARKFAL!!! READ~!!

[lordshade]

new info about darkfall, it's asp who visited darfall headquaters.

here's the info:
http://www.lordsofdeath.com/www/

finally some good news :D

[Trunce]

new info about darkfall, it's asp who visited darfall headquaters.

here's the info:
http://www.lordsofdeath.com/www/

finally some good news :D

Nothing from Darkfall even remotely appeals to me tbh.

[Profound]

Darkfall seems terrible to me. Just voicing my opinion here about that....

[Wordor]

FFA pvp with FFA looting....Yay, my countless hours of gear grinding and mindless crafting shot down the shitter because a guy and 4 of his buddies thought it would be fun to jump me in the middle of an NPC encounter....

No thanks.

[Ryuuku]

UO with amazing graphics? If this game is anything like they say it's going to be, it's going to be amazing. I don't expect everyone to like it, it's certainly a niche game. The guy doing that review certainly gives me high hopes though since you never really get a lot of info about the game since it started development.

[Roargh]

Sounds actually really good my man, i like it.
It`s basically a dog eat dog game world in there.

[Ruinx]

Darkfall seems terrible to me. Just voicing my opinion here about that....

On some forums they call that threadcrapping and it can get you banned :)

Opinion without reasoning/debate is utterly worthless drivel, really. Posting "+1" would be more worthwhile. Wordor's opinion is fine, because he explains it, even he's probably wrong about how the game works in practice.

[Trunce]

-2


Am I doing this right?

[Pugslah]

Go away Darkfalls!

EvE can be the only MMO with FFA PvP, and Looting!:mrgreen:

[Ruinx]

-2


Am I doing this right?

Nonono! The +1 means +1 to your overall post count, which (thankfully) we don't have here.

-2 would be pretty magical.

You could do like the WoW boards and rate troll threads, but I don't think this is a troll thread.

[mongoose]

lol, that reviewr is such a fanboi, they probably could have dressed up a couple of stick puppets and danced them around in a box with the front cut out, told him this was Darkfalls current build, and this guy would have said how freakin awesome it was :rolleyes:

[Thoden Firehammer]

lol, that reviewr is such a fanboi, they probably could have dressed up a couple of stick puppets and danced them around in a box with the front cut out, told him this was Darkfalls current build, and this guy would have said how freakin awesome it was :rolleyes:


Agreed, however Dark Fall does sound like a neat game.

[Hnbmilk]

yay for darkfall

[Gaazruk]

It sounds basiclly like everything in it has been done before and better.

[Immortalis]

Oh really? I for one think the PvP system is awesome. I've always wanted an MMO where you can kill anyone anywhere anytime. Assassinations and all that.

[Tianzi]

Oh really? I for one think the PvP system is awesome. I've always wanted an MMO where you can kill anyone anywhere anytime. Assassinations and all that.

They've been done. UO on release had it, and then lost it. Shadowbane did it, but exists only on life support today.

Broadly speaking, they've failed, or been marginalized over time, or been relegated to the ghetto of a single FFA PvP server.

It seems AoC's PvP will be of the FFA variety. It will be interesting to see how that works out.

[mongoose]

Agreed, however Dark Fall does sound like a neat game.

Yes it does sound neat but from what little we have ever seen it dosent look all that great. We also know there is a often huge gap between what Devs claim will be in a game and what actually makes it.......and is good.

If DF ever makes it to release I fear it will be DoA like DnL. (too many acronyms? :D)

[Ringo]

Personally I think that Darkfall will probably not do as well as the hype (which has been typical with every game sans EQ (for the first 2 years) and WoW). Lots and lots of people like FFA PvP, but it can't really support a subscription-oriented player base for very long. Great game mechanics don't amount to much when ONLY the hardcore gamers can get to them. Shadowbane, as someone pointed out, had this great idea about player built cities an enormous wars ranging across entire continents. Well, that worked for about half a year. Putting amazingly well-crafted features into a game around the idea that at any point and time player X can get, for lack of a better term, "ganked," really bites. The argument about PvP and how it SHOULD be done and the merits of all the ways it CAN be done could go on for ages. But games have been there before (as previous people stated) and it just doesn't work. Great graphics and a heap of features don't make up for a faulty game model.

Edit:
Read this, and it is somewhat contradictory, in that very review:
Alleged Statement: For instance, some of the best items that players can obtain in this game will be crafted. This leads to a robust economy with the need for trade of goods and resources to emerge.
Reviewer Question:- “Will I be at disadvantage to a power gamer who plays 24/7, has spell of ‘Pwn thee’ that does 1875 hp damage and a purple ‘Sword of Castration’ doing 1585 hp per second?”
Partial Answer: ...As far as kick items. The game is not item based. Don’t use anything you don’t mind losing. Besides full loot, items will wear out, so make sure you have enough backup armor and weapon sets.

To me, parts 1 and 3 seem to directly contradict each other. Not a good promo.

[NoneSuch]

The main issue I have with the idea of full FFA pvp and loot is that say for example - You Spawn in town, 10 minutes later you die. You spawn in town, 30 minutes later you die.

You lose all your gear.

Now how is that player going to reasonably get his gear back? Unless they give away free sets of armour and weapons in town I simply don't see it as a reasonable system. It's not the fact you lose your gear which is the real issue, it's just the fact you have to get it back then stand the very high probability of losing it once again. And no it's not " because the player was dumb" or " he should of been more careful" it's simply due to the fact in a game - you die, that's the point you put yourself in situations where there's a chance you'll get killed, that is the purpose of a pvp game and usually your death is out of your hands.

I enjoy FFA sorta systems to a certain extent, I want freedom to be able to engage whoever - But There does need to be heavy restrictions in certain area's, like towns and some "Safe"zones so players have some form of stability and protection.

Look at Eve - It has safe zones, even if they aren't entirley safe people would rarley risk attacking in them. And Eve tbh is one of the more succesful and atleast well known FFA games.

Age of conan in my mind is offering something interesting, a more "friendly" FFA system. Yes I know, people will about how that's not hardcore or serious enough - but it's fun, and that's what matters. People really have to stop seeing games as work, or a chore.

[Grimfell Gromgear]

I'm not heavy into the MMO community, so I can speak as a bit of an outsider. And I'll say this about Darkfall. No one has heard of it.

WAR I've heard friends of mine mention, Age of Conan I've heard friends of mine mention. Same is true for Tabula Rasa. Darkfall... nada. Not a peep, it's completely off the radar for non hardcore MMO gamers, which bodes ill for it's chances to gain a large community.

I'm not even going to get into the fact that they're years behind schedule, I'm just going to touch on some features that don't sound so great.


What rules will be in place in regards to who you can attack and what reward/penalty you get for kills/death?”
You can kill anyone. Everything in your possession can be looted. No one gets claim to a kill as a corpse can be looted by an unlimited number of people. Kills are recorded. You will know who you have killed as well as who killed you.

All the fun of team killing with records so you can get ticked off at people, and ninjaing loot?


- “Zerg vs smaller guilds. Will battles be decided by who can field the most players?”
As previously stated, In Darkfall skill is much more important than numbers. I feel that a well-coordinated small group of guildmates can destroy a large army by using the terrain better, smarter choice of weapons and equipment, tactics and other. It would be harder to get a large group of people fighting well together. This is due in large part to the high level of friendly collision that will exist in Darkfall. The game has friendly collision so if someone is using a large weapon, or area of effect spells, he can hit his guildmates nearby. Even healers have to watch their craft as they could accidentally heal the enemy.


And you can accidently kill friends and heal enemies? Even if you don't mean to? (Which will mean that AoE skills and heavy weapons will be severly frowned upon by anyone in the competetive playing community, unless they're using them, but only by people they know and therefore trust.) Think of all the fun you'll have around idiots who don't know how to play their class. In a normal MMO you can just watch them die, in this one they'll be accidently killing you.


- “You #$^@ing noob!”
Obscene language is something I asked about numerous times as I know how my guildmates are (especially Judas). I was assured that no one will be banned for obscene language or things they type. The game will be rated as “adult” so if you don’t like to see / you can filter out that person or just take it like an adult.

Personally, I'm not so sure I'm going to enjoy a game that makes no attempt to keep any language in check... hello unsightly racial slurs.


I got to be an orc. First thing I did was open my inventory (backpack). It was delightful to see the messy backpack full of pouches and various pieces of armor and weapons- UO style

So apparently poor inventory management is now considered nostalgic... that's a personal gripe, I guess some people feel that way about it.


You fall on the ground and the player has a final choice to make whether to finish you or let you live. I did my finish move and he was officially dead… and looted. I even looked at his paper doll and bags from his computer to make sure he had nothing left. Yep, the game is definitely full loot.

So you do get everything the person was carrying, and can attack them anywhere... which is going to be loads of fun say... carrying quest specific items, rare gear, crafting materials, oh anything at all of value really.



Those are all personal views of course, but I gotta say I just don't see the game appealing to a wide market of players, even if it somehow makes it to the point where they do everything it claims to do.

[Chanticleer]

Darkfall is vaporware. It will never be released, or at least not in any form recognisable to the people who have been following it.

I hope it does release though, it will finally prove to the FFA fanboys why it's such a terrible mechanic.

[Wordor]

Read this, and it is somewhat contradictory, in that very review:
Alleged Statement: For instance, some of the best items that players can obtain in this game will be crafted. This leads to a robust economy with the need for trade of goods and resources to emerge.
Reviewer Question:- “Will I be at disadvantage to a power gamer who plays 24/7, has spell of ‘Pwn thee’ that does 1875 hp damage and a purple ‘Sword of Castration’ doing 1585 hp per second?”
Partial Answer: ...As far as kick items. The game is not item based. Don’t use anything you don’t mind losing. Besides full loot, items will wear out, so make sure you have enough backup armor and weapon sets.

To me, parts 1 and 3 seem to directly contradict each other. Not a good promo.

Yay, So, dont wear anything but starter cloths and copper weapons? That sounds amazing...*puke*...Sorry, but dont think you should loose months worth of farming / raiding / crafted gear just because someone "ganked" "jumped" or caught you off guard.

I would hope they would at least make certain things soulbound, so that you cannot loose them unless you personally delete them, but that doesnt sound like what the Dev's are aiming for.

[Lemures]

Eh... game looks fruity. Really nothing more to say but that I guess.

[NoneSuch]

I do think some of you are being a bit wow-minded when thinking about this mmo, I in no way think it's going to be good as previously stated. But In a game where you can lose gear so easily , you certainly aren't going to have to "work" for months to gain items, or money.

In a game like Dark fall I'm guessing good enough equipment can simply come from killing enemies, or doing a simple quest or scavenging corpses from large pvp fights.

FFA-PVP and looting opens up some very interesting situations, and can really create close-knit groups of people and bring up some very cool situations. Of course it's also hugley exploitable and absoloutly relys on every gamer being a good hearted guy who treats people with respect.

That dosn't happen though so the concept is flawed. I feel FFA PVP needs to be sectioned into zones, and there to be large safe zones for it to really work - It should be player choice to take part in it, a game where it forces it is really doomed to fail no matter what the hardcore niche will preach.

Basically to sum it up I still think a game could work with that sort of system, but dark fall isn't going to be that game.

[Vegetta]

In old-school UO everyone mainly used crafted items - and kept replacement gear bags in the bank so you could quickly re-equip if you got cleaned out.

Plus the world was good sized so if you went out of the way you had a low chance to run into anyone.

Game sounds interesting tho tbh I dont think a full loot FFA game will be very successful

[DarkDweller]

I feel FFA PVP needs to be sectioned into zones, and there to be large safe zones for it to really work

But ultimately that's not really FFA PvP, I don't think.

I think what others have said about this game not being viable are pretty valid concerns. There are a lot of grandiose claims being made by the developers about the scale and freedom of the game. But to be honest, a lot of these things will be very very difficult to maintain with anything short of a huge subscription base.

How can you have player made cities, and bands of rogues hiding in the wilderness, if the population won't support it? Ships with 50 people sailing around? Hard to imagine.

One of the main benefits with the instanced scenarios in WAR is to allow people to engage in meaningful Pv, without having to wander around for hours on end without encountering anyone. This, I fear, may be the case in Darkfall.

[Graven]

After reading Grimfell's post.... that stuns me. I admit, I haven't played UO, so maybe I'm just not used to that kind of ffa pvp... but some of those points strike me as completely moronic. Reallistic, maybe, but moronic nonetheless. Hitting friends with heavy weapons and aoe skills? It may happen sometimes irl, but it doesn't quite seem a fitting mechanic in an mmo... You can kill and loot anyone? Fine for high-level players, but could lead to so much grieving it pains my mind. That's all personal opinion, but I must admit I find it hard someone can like ALL these things.

[Boulvae]

I say, OH MY GOD, I am surprised.

But I can atleast say they suck at updating their own sight.

[Zimjin]

The UO system of "FFA full body looting" is great as long as it's paired with UO's system of "loot drops from mobs all the time and awesome rares drop randomly off of yard trash".

In UO, you didn't worry too much about losing your Super Dagger of Awesomness +30. You found it on some random drop (or off of a player corpse...) so you don't need to form a 40-man raid party to get another one. You probably still have your Super Dagger of Awesomeness +25 sitting in the bank anyway. You always kept reserve gear.


Anyway, Darkfall's plan sounds great.

Now they just have to sell me on the idea that it's not totally vaporware.

[Pandemonium]

Whats Darkfall? Is at an MMO?

[Zimjin]

After reading Grimfell's post.... that stuns me. I admit, I haven't played UO, so maybe I'm just not used to that kind of ffa pvp... but some of those points strike me as completely moronic. Reallistic, maybe, but moronic nonetheless. Hitting friends with heavy weapons and aoe skills? It may happen sometimes irl, but it doesn't quite seem a fitting mechanic in an mmo... You can kill and loot anyone? Fine for high-level players, but could lead to so much grieving it pains my mind. That's all personal opinion, but I must admit I find it hard someone can like ALL these things.
That's WOW talkin'.

WOW, frankly, is very watered down PvP. So is Warhammer, by all indications. If these are your only real experiences with PvP, then it's no wonder why you're turned off by UO style combat -- you never got a chance to see how it really works.


Most of these "hard core" mechanics have been used very successfully in other games for ages. Tribes was damn near unplayable with friendly-fire turned off, due to explosion spam. I always thought that the Rainbow Six series of games were much better with friendly-fire. There's nothing like throwing a grenade up to the next level and watching it bounce back off the railing, knowing that you've not only killed yourself but probably two or three teammates.

It is, in my opinion, the ultimate seperator between skilled gameplay and noobish arcade games. These "soft core" PvP games really limit how much skill you can have in battle. There isn't a lot of skill in using Rain of Fire when it can't hit teammates. Weighing in the factor of friendly fire can really seperate the good players from the spammers.

Granted, there's a potential for abuse, but it's actually much less so in an MMO, where your actions will have a lasting impact with the other players. You learn to control your fire or you learn to enjoy playing by yourself and getting ganked all the time because the entire server hates you.


WOW style gameplay has a place, and probably a more popular place, but there's definiately room for hard core PvP with friendly fire and full looting. A modernized UO sounds awesome.

[Tlear]

Ahh carebears out in full force!

First I would like to say that from what I seen Darkfall is a vaporware. This is not because of FFA pvp but because they are trying to do too much. Same problem that killed SB. Instead of implementing 10000213123123 features they need to focus on the core and throw all the other garbage away. Sea battles?? lol no not gona happen.

Their last playable build is from 1 year ago??? Thats a TERRIBLY managed software project.. seriously I can't imagine any kindof justification for this.

On to FFA pvp..its a niche thing. Incredibly fun and satisfying but niche. My first mmo was M59 which was not exactly FFA but you had a 50/50 chance to get ganked as noob any time you entered a zone near a city (dying lost you skills/hp that you had to get back, also you lost all gear). Once you get used to the fact that nothing on your char is there forever and you have 10 stacks of gear in the bank its np.

SB was great but it wasn't full loot unfortunately. What killed it was poor quality of coding more then anything. Crashing 18 times during 3h siege is not acceptable.

[SharderBlade]

Hmm. Darkfall looks interesting. Is combat going to be similar to Mount and Blade? If so that would be tight. I actually thought of a game almost exactly like this years and years ago.

Well I dunno. The game certainly has potential to be complete and utter crap, but there is a very slight chance it will be awesome.

[Grimfell Gromgear]

That's WOW talkin'.

WOW, frankly, is very watered down PvP. So is Warhammer, by all indications. If these are your only real experiences with PvP, then it's no wonder why you're turned off by UO style combat -- you never got a chance to see how it really works.


Most of these "hard core" mechanics have been used very successfully in other games for ages. Tribes was damn near unplayable with friendly-fire turned off, due to explosion spam. I always thought that the Rainbow Six series of games were much better with friendly-fire. There's nothing like throwing a grenade up to the next level and watching it bounce back off the railing, knowing that you've not only killed yourself but probably two or three teammates.

It is, in my opinion, the ultimate seperator between skilled gameplay and noobish arcade games. These "soft core" PvP games really limit how much skill you can have in battle. There isn't a lot of skill in using Rain of Fire when it can't hit teammates. Weighing in the factor of friendly fire can really seperate the good players from the spammers.

Granted, there's a potential for abuse, but it's actually much less so in an MMO, where your actions will have a lasting impact with the other players. You learn to control your fire or you learn to enjoy playing by yourself and getting ganked all the time because the entire server hates you.


WOW style gameplay has a place, and probably a more popular place, but there's definiately room for hard core PvP with friendly fire and full looting. A modernized UO sounds awesome.

There is an extreme difference between killing friends in Rainbow Six and killing frienlies in Darkfall.

Don't think about what YOU can do, think about what your FRIENDLIES are going to be doing. So, here's a very likely situation from the game (considering both melee and practically every spell can hit teammates). A spammer on your side kills you either by accident or on purpose. Now, your corpse is lootable by anyone (including enemies, so even if an ally just messed up poof there goes all the items you were carrying).

It's one thing to have a friend in an FPS where it's all of five seconds to recover, it's an entirely different matter where killing an ally can conceivably set a person back minutes, or hours depending on the situation.

Another fun note, is that considering you can raise your alignment rank back up by killing enemies, that person who messed up and toasted a bunch of allies can remove his playerkiller status by just farming some mobs.

The thing people don't understand about the difference between 'skilled' games and 'noobish carebear' games is that they think they'll good and thus will play the skilled game, but they fail to realize that they have no control over all the other people playing.

It's one thing to have friendly fire when the consequences don't matter, or you're playing with guys you know. It's another when it could be any yahoo with an internet connection and too much free time on his hands.

FFA PVP in a persistant MMO with strong reprucussions will never be a successful game model in the new generation of games. The negatives scare away too many people, but don't necessarily scare away the idiots who make the game less fun for the people who are actually trying to be serious about the game. One of the three things needs to be removed to make the PVP model succesful. Either it can't be FFA, it can't be in a persistant game, or the reprucussions for dieing have to be very minimal. If you try to put all three 'hardcore' elements together, your game is really dooming itself.

And, in this case, add on top the fact that Darkfall is vaporware that isn't going to be able to achieve anything it's promising and will likely be buggy, broken, and unbalanced anyways due to it's poor development team (if it ever gets released in the first place).