I just dont understand... [Archive]

Elge

10-17-2007, 05:39 PM

Variety, my friend. And as Thoden put it, people do as they wish. I've played both genders in every single MMO I've played, and I am a male. I'm even going to make a Female Witch Hunter as my first character in Warhammer. Simply because, I DON'T want to look like the millions of other male Witch Hunters that will undoubtedly be roaming every single server, drastically outnumbering the females.

I want to see variety. But you seem to have some kind of problem against people who play opposite-gender characters; or is it just guys who play females? Are the girls who play males no different, or do you just not care because they're not guys?

Your post is basically: "Lol all you female-toon playing guys suck and you're not real men."

"It takes a REAL man to play a female toon." - Abraham Lincoln (or someone like him)

;)

Edit: Also as a side note; it shouldn't matter the gender of your character, as long as the person playing the game understands their class. What do I care (to use WoW as an example, since it's the most recent MMO that I played I can refer to) if one of the Priest's in my raid is a guy playing a female toon. If he can do his job, nothing else matters. But I guess some people have personal bias against trivial things.

Kinski

10-17-2007, 05:42 PM

I'm tempted to roll a female alt just because of this thread. :cool:

Acanthus

10-17-2007, 05:46 PM

variety is the spice of life as they say.

it really, really doesn't matter. unless you try to cyber with one. in which case lol.

LOL indeed!

But as an answer to your question, you wouldn't play a female toon because of the way you play. You see yourself in the fantasy world, and create your avatar. My playstyle is different in that I create characters to play, which are not connected to my RL persona. That way, if it is more appropriate for a character concept to be female, then I will make that toon female. I see it as just a difference in how you engage in fantasy worlds.

Mogstah

10-17-2007, 05:50 PM

Embarassed to be men? Get real, this is a game, and you need to realize that there is no difference between male or female characters. Game play is the same, so what does it matter if some guys play female characters, but are in fact male IRL. I know chicks who have played and plan to play male characters. So are they embarassed to be women? I don't think so.

No difference between gameplay, one may look better than the other, or something -- but that doesn't affect gameplay. Like Elge, I've played both genders, and I did it for fun. Not because I'm embarassed to be male, are you saying 2/3 of the female character population on any given server are men who would much rather be female than male? Get real. Nothing to do with it.

Also, that other '1/3rd' would say you're full of it. Regardless of my toon I have never been treated differently and I don't see this changing, at all. It's all about cosmetics, in the end -- even if you say And before I get the "Im not " or "If im going to be playing the game I wanna stare at a hot chick" or any of that junk....
It is the truth, they play what they prefer.

Imamu

10-17-2007, 06:10 PM

as the other posters before said, it really doesn't matter. if they know how to play their class right, then let them play a female toon.
some of the best players in WoW played female toons. (see: Ming, Happyminti, Nately, etc.)
I'm probably going to play a witch elf myself and I'm not embarrassed to be a man. quite proud actually. I don't have to go through a monthly bleeding cycle, worry about breast cancer, and a bunch of other things women have to worry about.

as another posted before me, variety is the spice of life.

Obby

10-17-2007, 06:27 PM

True but I always try to imagine myself as a character in the fantasy. How I would look everything. Since I am a man I could never make a female char.
And I don't try to make myself into my character. I just make a character however I want. I usually make casters female and everything else male, but not always. It depends what mood I'm in.

On a side note, there have been cases of men getting breast cancer. So I guess that's one more thing you have to worry about, Imamu.

Imamu

10-17-2007, 06:35 PM

And I don't try to make myself into my character. I just make a character however I want. I usually make casters female and everything else male, but not always. It depends what mood I'm in.

On a side note, there have been cases of men getting breast cancer. So I guess that's one more thing you have to worry about, Imamu.

oh, great. :(

Hive

10-17-2007, 07:28 PM

True but I always try to imagine myself as a character in the fantasy. How I would look everything. Since I am a man I could never make a female char.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

You do realize that part of a role playing game is to play a role that you can't do (for whatever reason) in real life.

Thoden Firehammer

10-17-2007, 07:35 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

You do realize that part of a role playing game is to play a role that you can't do (for whatever reason) in real life.

Yes, but what about on Normals servers where they don't RP.

In anycase I have never cared for this issue, I myself being a roleplayer I think there is nothing wrong with it.

However I do have the bad habbit or I guess you can call it a good habbit since i'm on an RP server, but I tend to address people by the gender I see them as in the game.

Hive

10-17-2007, 07:47 PM

Yes, but what about on Normals servers where they don't RP.

In anycase I have never cared for this issue, I myself being a roleplayer I think there is nothing wrong with it.

However I do have the bad habbit or I guess you can call it a good habbit since i'm on an RP server, but I tend to address people by the gender I see them as in the game.

It's not just about RP servers. The whole point of playing a game like this is to be able to do something you can't in your everyday life-- I don't shoot lightning from my fingers, I can't smash an elf with an ax, and I'll never get to kill a dragon. If we were to follow Dracallo's lead we would be forced to all roll humans (most of us male), there would be no magic, no monsters, and most of us would only have the skills to be scribes (at best).

It seems that most of the "omg dudes shouldn't play as chicks" camp has been burned in one way or another by a guy with a girl character (be it via cybering/free items/ect.). To those people, I suggest the following-- don't try to use a video game to get laid. If it's really that important to you then just assume that everyone you see is a guy until voicechat can prove otherwise, it'll save you a lot of embarrassment and heartache.

Thoden Firehammer

10-17-2007, 08:30 PM

It's not just about RP servers. The whole point of playing a game like this is to be able to do something you can't in your everyday life-- I don't shoot lightning from my fingers, I can't smash an elf with an ax, and I'll never get to kill a dragon. If we were to follow Dracallo's lead we would be forced to all roll humans (most of us male), there would be no magic, no monsters, and most of us would only have the skills to be scribes (at best).

It seems that most of the "omg dudes shouldn't play as chicks" camp has been burned in one way or another by a guy with a girl character (be it via cybering/free items/ect.). To those people, I suggest the following-- don't try to use a video game to get laid. If it's really that important to you then just assume that everyone you see is a guy until voicechat can prove otherwise, it'll save you a lot of embarrassment and heartache

Now see I don't understand the people who flirt with female characters on MMOs, that's what confuses me :P

jkdfhk

10-17-2007, 08:43 PM

Its a game people do what they want. Some get "excited" over female toons.
They could want to be a female and this games let them do that.
But why they do it, i dunno?

Koot

10-17-2007, 09:50 PM

Now see I don't understand the people who flirt with female characters on MMOs, that's what confuses me :P

I second this statement.

Phorne

10-17-2007, 09:59 PM

I play a male or female character depending on how good they look doing all sorts of abilties. In WoW, I preferred the male trolls hunter shooting stance compared to the female one and I liked the female night elf shooting stance way better then the male.

Browncoat-WHA

10-18-2007, 04:24 AM

First off, I'd like to commend folks in this thread for responding rationally and constructively for the most part. I would like to believe the OP did not meant to put such sweeping general statements in his post but it was good that most everyone reacted with measured calmness. Thanks guys!

As for the topic, it's really just a matter of variety to some people. I think that the folks that fit the OP's description are actually less of a majority or even equal to those who play toons of opposite genders (why limit this to males playing females) for other reasons.

It would be interested to see some kind of study about social interaction differences for a male toon versus a female toon. We've seen lots of informal articles to the effect but I haven't seen anything extensive done.

Grimfell Gromgear

10-18-2007, 04:38 AM

Now see I don't understand the people who flirt with female characters on MMOs, that's what confuses me :P

Yeah, to me everyone on the other end of a character is just a grey genderless blob that I usually identify as vaguely male.

My favorites are people who claim that certain characters are 'hot' when... in fact, near all characters in the game look the same usually.

Notably, directly on topic. While I myself am incapable of playing a female character (I have tried before, and failed, as I just can't get into it), I appreciate some of the more principled reasons to do so. Such as not wanting to stare at a bouncing male buttocks all day (or just in general finding a female more appropriate for class X or look X). However, anyone who plays a female AND pretends to be female IRL, that's the one that wigs me out. As I said, such players matter little to me since I don't really care what gender someone is IRL, but the fact that people do so is kinda wiggy to me.

Nibs

10-18-2007, 05:10 AM

I've played a female character in an MMO once. The only i played one then is because that particular class HAS to be a female (Valkyrie in DAoC), much like the witch elf in WAR.

In playing that I character I found out just how many blokes are willing to give you free stuff just because they think you are a woman. At no point did I claim to be a woman, but then again, and no point did they ask!

Now, to flip this around, there are also a heck of a lot women (relatively) that play male characters. Most that I have encountered doing so do so to avoid being hit on hormonal teenagers/dirty old men.

People have their reasons for almost everything they do. Whether it's what sex character to play or even what MMO to play in the first place. Some people can't fathom why a man would play a female character, I can't fathom why people still play SW:G and WoW. They just do.

Horses for courses, whatever floats your boat and all that :)

Vegetta

10-18-2007, 05:26 AM

Your the kind of person that would complain you had to play a female in Tomb Raider I bet

Have you ever read a book with a female character? How about have you ever seen a movie with a female character.

Playing a female character doesn't mean your "teh Ghey"

Grow up

silex

10-18-2007, 07:49 AM

My chars are usually 50/50 female/male.

I like to look at beauty. If I'm spending 4 hours/day playing, I'd rather spend that looking at something I consider good looking than something I consider not.

Dracallo

10-18-2007, 08:16 AM

Loekii

10-18-2007, 08:48 AM

If it is about staring at a hot chick, go buy a porno... too young?? Look in your dads room! Its a digital image for crying out loud!

That is a very incorrect and very sweeping statement. Yes, some do fit your description, but many do not.

Might as well say if someone enjoys watching a female actor, athelet, comedian, speaker, etc that they might as well go watch porno.

As others have stated, it is simply a matter of taste. For some, they simply prefer the look of the female avatar to the look of the male avatar.

Look at all the observations about why people generally choose 'prettier' races over better but uglier races.

I know I have selected races purely on their astetics, even if it meant I was choosing the 'weaker' race for that class. Why? It is simply because I have to look at that toon for the rest of the character's gameplay, and I choose to look at something I prefer.

Vegetta

10-18-2007, 08:55 AM

Nope never played tomb raider. But you are reacting just as I expected. :D Good job. you're predictable.

Guess that is what i get for replying to troll posts

Romple-WHA

10-18-2007, 09:28 AM

In regular RPGs i play female toons mostly to see if the gameplay is any different. In a lot of games it is, in some it isn't.

In MMORPGS people definitely react differently to female toons. I get more groups on my female characters than male characters and a lot more offers...

Staring at my female tauren was never a turn on so i don't think i did it for the aesthetics!

Blaze

10-18-2007, 09:30 AM

If I make a tank type character, or some other burly melee monster it will be male. But if I make a sneaky character or a caster it's usually female. Why? I just think it's cooler. Somehow more fitting for that type of character (don't take this to mean that I think women are sneaky or have magic powers over men. Or perhaps they do... my GF always seems to get her way :p)

I know I'm a man and I know I'm straight. I don't have any insecurities regarding these things. Thats why I have no problem playing a female character if I think it fits my concept for the character better. I don't get uncomfortable if someone refers to me as "she" in the game, and if someone starts hitting on me I make sure to explain things before they embarras themselves too much (not that that has ever happened in all the years I've played MMORPGs).

I don't really understand why some guys have such a problem with playing female characters, but I'll just accept that we are all different, to each his own etc.

Oh and I would agree with Browncoat's sentiment that I'm impressed at how calmly and maturely everyone has responded to the OPs post. This is a good forum :)

Grimfell Gromgear

10-18-2007, 09:50 AM

I don't really understand why some guys have such a problem with playing female characters, but I'll just accept that we are all different, to each his own etc.

Speaking as someone who doesn't play female characters (except in fighting games where I pick whoever's moves I like and games where I have no choice oweing to storyline constraints), but isn't one of those people who gets really uppity about guys playing girls, perhaps I can shed some light from my personal viewpoint.

I think it comes down to the fact that, even when I'm not roleplaying a character heavily, I'm always invested in my character. And personally, I feel more of a connection inside my own gender. I also can't play truly 'evil' characters. I could play a goblin or an Orc because they're more self centered and completely obsessed with violence than say... evil, plus I find them hillarious and I can sympathize with goblins which are the ones I'm more likely to play. (For example, I can't bring myself to play Kotor following the Dark Side.)

It even comes down to little things, I often have to pick something personally identifying with my characters, often hair (It's almost always black and short like mine if that's acceptable for the race.)

In no way is not being able to play female an isolated incident for me. I simply can't play females in the same vein that I can't play blonde villains. I have little ways that I recognize them as my avatar in the world.

Now, ironically, if I'm in a full RP, I'm more broad on what I'm willing to do, because I consider it more of collabrative authorship, and thus I'm more 'writing' a character than 'being' a character. But once a well constructed RP is taken away, I'm more playing an author surrogate, and that hast to be something I relate to or I'm just not going to feel right about it.

Ruinx

10-18-2007, 10:11 AM

Blaze has said pretty much what I would here, so I'll second all of that. Like him, my characters gender tends to be based on the "concept" of them I have in my head, and what fits that. For example, if I had it set in my mind that I wanted to be an agile two-weapon warrior in WoW, for example, I could never select the human male, because he looks about as "agile" as a bull elephant, and Night Elf males make me puke (esp. as you can't have EYEBROWS unless you have a beard, I mean wtf?), and Dwarves and Gnomes of either gender are right out because, well, I just don't like either of those races in WoW. So what does that leave? Female Human or NE are the only ones who look "agile", and they both fight in a cool way.

I think a lot of it depends on how you approach character creation.

Personally I start by thinking about what I'd like to play, and then usually select "best available fit" in whatever game I'm playing. Some games have a good fit, others, less so. In DAoC, there are a number of male models which fit with my character style/ideas (particularly pre-Cats Avos), whereas in WoW, it's rarer (when I wanted to play "totally hardcore Warrior", though, I went Male Draenei, and he's 70 and looks great!).

I know some other people approach character creation very differently, like they don't even consider gender, they immediately click the male button without even thinking about, don't think about "what looks cool" or "what's my concept" at all, but select a race purely on it's utility for the class they've already decided to be. I've tried doing that, but I often end up unhappy with the result (particularly if "optimal race" is something ugly or short or both).

Of my max-level characters and /played time, I'd think it'd be very close to even with Male and Female characters, and that's cool with me.

Browncoat - It would be an interesting study. Nick Yee has done some stuff regarding this, but I'm not sure he's ever focused on exactly this issue. From his figures, I believe you're correct in your assertion. Last I saw, most male players have at least some female alts - those who play exclusively male characters are indeed the minority. With female players, though, the vast majority only play female characters.

Social interaction, I'd say, is less different now that it was, in say, EQ days. My entirely anecdotal experience is this:

EQ days - Character I stuck with was female - I got a lot of stalkers, people constantly tried to give me stuff or "protect" me, and one guy even tried to tell me I shouldn't tank because it was "unwomanly" or something to that effect. Heeeavy sexism, made me appreciate a tiny bit of what women go through irl every day.

DAoC days - First character I stuck with was female (more by luck than judgement - I'd created her to go with a character of my bro's in a hurry, and only played her again because she was the right level to duo with a friend) - Got zero sexual harassment, no-one even tried. Then again, it was a PvP-focused game with players who'd mostly played MMORPGs before. Possibly my character was just too "tough" looking to attract that sort of thing, and I suspect the fact that DAoC characters can't take all their clothes off or perform sexualized emotes drove away some cyb0r-maniacs (not all of them, though, to judge from some mistells I saw lol). My later male Avo Pally main later got hit on a couple of times, too (by people who certainly claimed to be chicks), but I just found that a little creepy.

WoW early days - My first 60 was female, and OH BOY did I get a lot of "Hey baby!" tells. My wife, who was also playing a female character, thought it was absolutely hysterical that people were constantly hitting on my Human Female Paladin, yet only other Dwarves would ever even blow kisses etc. at her Dwarf Priest.

WoW later days - After a year or two, people seemed to just be hitting on each other a lot less. I think the novelty wore off and a lot of the MMORPG newbs started realizing that a lot of "female" characters were male.

Gotta say, I've never seen in WoW, this EQ deal where female toons get the loot. I bet if it happened, it would be totally new to MMORPG players doing it.

Vent has also made it so that the gender of a character is almost immaterial, as you always know the gender of the person it belongs to. All praise be to Vent.

Blaze

10-18-2007, 10:15 AM

Speaking as someone who doesn't play female characters (except in fighting games where I pick whoever's moves I like and games where I have no choice oweing to storyline constraints), but isn't one of those people who gets really uppity about guys playing girls, perhaps I can shed some light from my personal viewpoint.

I think it comes down to the fact that, even when I'm not roleplaying a character heavily, I'm always invested in my character. And personally, I feel more of a connection inside my own gender. I also can't play truly 'evil' characters. I could play a goblin or an Orc because they're more self centered and completely obsessed with violence than say... evil, plus I find them hillarious and I can sympathize with goblins which are the ones I'm more likely to play. (For example, I can't bring myself to play Kotor following the Dark Side.)

It even comes down to little things, I often have to pick something personally identifying with my characters, often hair (It's almost always black and short like mine if that's acceptable for the race.)

In no way is not being able to play female an isolated incident for me. I simply can't play females in the same vein that I can't play blonde villains. I have little ways that I recognize them as my avatar in the world.

Now, ironically, if I'm in a full RP, I'm more broad on what I'm willing to do, because I consider it more of collabrative authorship, and thus I'm more 'writing' a character than 'being' a character. But once a well constructed RP is taken away, I'm more playing an author surrogate, and that hast to be something I relate to or I'm just not going to feel right about it.

Yeah I can understand that. I'm completely different in that I like playing characters that are completely different from myself.

When I play on a normal server in an MMORPG I only care what my character looks like and I don't really identify with it.
When I roleplay (in MMOs or otherwise) I try to become that character who is nothing like the real me so I don't really identify with those characters either, I simply play them.

I have roleplayed evil characters, female characters and evil female characters. One of my favorit characters ever in PnP D&D was a female halfling assassin named Quinn. She was the only evil character in a otherwise good-neutral group but she was lawful evil and in the service of one of the other characters. She was cold, callous and completely ruthless but in the end probably did more good than any of the good characters because she was willing to do anything to accomplish the groups goals (get rid of the bad guys).

Fun times...

EDIT: Oh and Runix I have exactly the same approach to character generation. I don't really even think of my characters as having a gender, at least not in a sexual way. It's all about the look and what seems like the best fit for the concept I'll be playing.

Esraymuk

10-18-2007, 10:16 AM

Quite franklly, who cares what sex they play? Theres no stat difference between male/female. I'm more interested as to how well they can play their class.

Ruinx

10-18-2007, 10:23 AM

Quite franklly, who cares what sex they play? Theres no stat difference between male/female. I'm more interested as to how well they can play their class.

It's a good question, but clearly someone, however wierd, cares, because we see people asking "Y do u play a girl lolz?" all the time, and in at least one Chinese MMORPG, if you create a female character, you're required to be interviewed by the GMs (on webcam!) on confirm that you're really female. So some people have some really psycho issues with it, clearly.

Blaze

10-18-2007, 10:28 AM

It's a good question, but clearly someone, however wierd, cares, because we see people asking "Y do u play a girl lolz?" all the time, and in at least one Chinese MMORPG, if you create a female character, you're required to be interviewed by the GMs (on webcam!) on confirm that you're really female. So some people have some really psycho issues with it, clearly.

Really? But thats... insane.

I guess it might be a cultural thing. Or does that game support cybering or something? Somekind of online virtual dating game? Cause then I would understand but otherwise thats just silly :D

Grimfell Gromgear

10-18-2007, 10:39 AM

Quite franklly, who cares what sex they play? Theres no stat difference between male/female. I'm more interested as to how well they can play their class.

Because, in many ways, some people view MMO's as a social experiment as much as they consider it a game.

While some people may never understand the icky feeling some people get when someone plays outside their gender, it somewhat reflects the current uncomfortable situation of confused gender identities we're seeing more and more frequently present in the world around us. Online games simply give people the chance to make choices about their 'appearance' without much ramification.

Even though it may never have any effect on their personal life, some people have troubles with homosexuality, transgendered individuals, polyamorous relationships, and any number of 'alternative lifestyles'. While this of course has nothing to do with the games themselves, they share a similiar area as fiction does (such as presentation of such things in the media). Whether it's admitted to or not, many people feel uncomfortable with the blurring gender definitions of our modern society (and, you don't have to dislike something to be uncomfortable with it. I've known plenty of people who are tolerant of such things but just like to not have to hear about it because it makes them uncomfortable), coupled with the ability for more and more deception via the internet where altering personal information is much simpler than in a face to face discussion, people selecting characters outside their own gender stirs up both of these problems in one package. Of course, players playing outside their gender aren't necessarily transgendered, in fact most likely are not. However, what's important isn't what they are, it's what said individuals view them to be (or more precisely, what common themes/elements their situation brings up that triggers similiar thoughts in a persons active or subconcious mind.)

All of that is hypothetical based on my personal view of current sociological trends... I could of course be off base, it's simply a theory as to why some people would find the issue a delicate one. And I'm not going to pass judgement whether that's a good or a bad thing to feel that way. I don't have problems with people playing outside their genders, but personally it's not something for me. (I do though, have a gripe with people who lie about gender online. It's never going to effect me, but I guess I think lieing about stuff like that is wrong.)

RuinX- Locked gender selection is actually more common in Asian MMO's, often with ones that only let you select the gender you selected for yourself when you started the account.

Blaze

10-18-2007, 11:03 AM

I was just talking to a female friend of mine, and she said something interesting.

She commented that she's glad there are so many guys playing female characters (for whatever reason, even if it's to drool over virtual boobs) because that means people don't automatically assume that the female players like her are female in real life.
She doesn't usually admit to beeing a girl to random people, because the kind of person who asks if someone playing a female character is really a girl is also the kind of person who might get a little weird if you admit it.

You know, sometimes I am a little embarrassed to be a man. Not for myself but embarrassed for that "omg ur really a girl wanna cyber?"-type that apparently does exits in online games...

NoneSuch

10-18-2007, 11:17 AM

One thing I have to make perfectly clear is that I dislike playing female characters, I can't get into it. I simply could never see myself wanting to play one, and character appearance is important to me, But do I wonder why other people play them? No of course not.

Just like how I could never play an "elf" I'm not going to cluelessly expect everyone to think like myself, and not like elves. It's all down to personal opinion and prefrence, and just like so many debates in the past it boils down to the fact - Humans are different, we like different things, As soon as people stop trying to think everyone has to share their own ideals or opinions the internet will be alot nicer and happier place.

If you don't like something , it dosn't mean it's not "normal" Or wierd" for someone else to like it. It simply means they don't think like you, or just don't have the same prefrences and it's what makes the world interesting.

Also why aren't women ever asked this question? I'm guessing because their women, and the guys post it would lose the chance to "cyber" with them :p ( I'm joking) Seriously though, It's odd how it's so double standards.

Ruinx

10-18-2007, 11:34 AM

You know, sometimes I am a little embarrassed to be a man. Not for myself but embarrassed for that "omg ur really a girl wanna cyber?"-type that apparently does exits in online games...

Srsly.

That's what's really creepy about this Chinese game (which is not a dating sim, it's some kind of fantasy MMORPG, as I understand it). Every girl in it would be guaranteed to be hit on by about a dozen guys per second, considering how many pervs there are out there (or, if we don't like the word "pervs" how about "guys with no respect whatsoever for other people's social boundaries").

Grimfell - I think I have to come out on the side of saying it's a good thing that people can choose their gender in these games, for many reasons, including, but not limited to the fact that it protects genuine women from sexual harassment to some degree, and also because there are quite a significant number of transgendered people in the world, who may be forced into one gender role in life because of their general appearance ("masculine" or "feminine"), but who absolutely should not be forced into a specific gender in a game as well. Anyone who has a problem with transgendered people is a bad human being. I am asolutely passing judgement on them. No-one chooses to be transgendered, nor can really do anything about it. Thus if you have a problem with it, there's absolutely no excuse for your feelings. Of course, I actually know transgendered players, both irl and online (despite being a big hairy man myself), so maybe I'm "biased" (in the way that people who have friends of multiple races and thus aren't racists tend to be "biased" against racism).

NoneSuch - Women aren't asked this question because it's normal for them to play women :p

On the other hand, if you ask why they play men, the answer is: they don't, by and large. So that's a kinda pointless question too. The only question worth asking would be "Why don't you play men?", and I suspect the answer would probably revolve mostly around the idea not being attractive, and most male character models being absolutely hideous.

Grimfell Gromgear

10-18-2007, 12:07 PM

RuinX- You don't have to necessarily have a problem with transgendered individuals to feel uncomfortable about the topic. I know pleny of tolerant individuals who still find alternative lifestyles uncomfortable, and while they accept them they don't choose to keep said people as friends, and prefer to avoid media that displays them.

Tolerance and Acceptance are two different things, and while I hope everyone to be tolerant of various worldviews, I accept that not everyone is capable of being 100% accepting of them.

In that case, I think people who find topics of that nature 'uncomfortable' (for lack of a better term), likely have similiar discomforts with encountering a similiar settup (at least from their viewpoint), in a gaming environment. To them it's a form of entertainment and thus they're willing to be more vocal about their displeasure with things than in real life where people are allowed more rights and freedoms. Or, to put it another way. Someone might have no trouble with people playing female characters, but they might have problems with the idea that they have to interact with people who are playing female characters.

You really can't force people to be comfortable with ideas they're not. Which is why certain games restricting gender likely appeals to certain gamers. Just like how games with language filters appeal to certain people.

NoneSuch

10-18-2007, 12:09 PM

NoneSuch - Women aren't asked this question because it's normal for them to play women :p

On the other hand, if you ask why they play men, the answer is: they don't, by and large. So that's a kinda pointless question too. The only question worth asking would be "Why don't you play men?", and I suspect the answer would probably revolve mostly around the idea not being attractive, and most male character models being absolutely hideous.

Rofl you know what I meant, And male characters don't look THAT bad. They just don't look as good, I mean heck the tauren males looked far superior to the tauren females :D

And to be honest - Alot of female gamers do play as male characters, I've known many including my own sister. It's not purley down to the fact they'll avoid the constant pestering by male gamers.

Gaazruk

10-18-2007, 12:11 PM

If you listen to the guys who play girl characters on vent or teamspeak they usually are teenagers or young boys or just amazingly creepy old men.

NoneSuch

10-18-2007, 12:18 PM

If you listen to the guys who play girl characters on vent or teamspeak they usually are teenagers or young boys or just amazingly creepy old men.

I also heard if you listen to skaven table top players they're usually teenagers, who live in the dark with squeeky girl voices and greasy unwashed hair with a cheese fetish.

Grimfell Gromgear

10-18-2007, 12:24 PM

I also heard if you listen to skaven table top players they're usually teenagers, who live in the dark with squeeky girl voices and greasy unwashed hair with a cheese fetish.

Well... I was about seventeen and some mates and me went to a party, and, er... we had quite a lot to drink... and then some of the fellows there ... started handing ... cheese around ... and well just out of curiosity I tried a bit ... and well that was that.
-Arthur Jackson (John Cleese) in Monty Python's Flying Circus "The Mouse Problem"

Blaze

10-18-2007, 12:33 PM

If you listen to the guys who play girl characters on vent or teamspeak they usually are teenagers or young boys or just amazingly creepy old men.

A good friend of mine always seems to play female characters. I've never asked him why exactly, but I suppose he just like the look of them. Or plays female casters like I do.

Anyways... he has this really deep voice. Like, Barry White kind of deep. So he always freaks people out when he comes on guild vent for raids and stuff. You can almost "hear" their expressions though the channel. This little female gnome that sounds like a big black guy. Priceless.

NoneSuch

10-18-2007, 12:43 PM

Meh On the subject of transgender I don't disagree with it, but I still don't see the point - In todays world women no longer have to act Feminine and men no longer have to act masculine there's no defined way of acting or feeling for iether sex. When I think about it, I don't feel like a "man" I simply feel like myself. I don't particually understand the need to want to be the other sex, as I doubt even if I did have I wouldn't actually act any differently.

Then again I don't have those sort of ideas, or feelings so I definatly would never understand how a Transgender person would feel ( The term is rather broad )

Ruinx

10-18-2007, 12:54 PM

And to be honest - Alot of female gamers do play as male characters, I've known many including my own sister. It's not purley down to the fact they'll avoid the constant pestering by male gamers.

Not really, mate. I mean, you may know a few. If so, it's a freak of statistics. Extensive surveys have been conducted on the matter. Nick Yee's last one indicated less than 10% of female players played male characters on any kind of regular basis, and I've only met one female player (out of dozens) who did, and other surveys have produced similar results.

Grimfell - "Alternative lifestyles"? What on god's green earth are you talking about? Being transgendered isn't some sort of "alternative lifestyle" like being polyamorous is, it's a bloody fact of nature that you're born with. Note the word transgendered - I'm not talking about transVESTITES. Look it up if you don't know the difference. If you're uncomfortable with facts of nature, and you feel the need to have the world conform to your uncomfortability to the detriment of others, you are a very bad human being. Comparing with "alternative lifestyles" is extremely disrespectful and insulting, and illustrative of a profound lack of comprehension of the subject on your part.

An accurate comparison would be with race. If you think it would be okay to only let players play their own race on servers, then sure, but like with transgendered people, who the hell decides what race someone is?

I do not think their "right" to be uncomfortable with basic realities like race or gender supercedes even the most minor rights of other individuals. It's like being uncomfortable with black people, or females, or gravity, or something.

NoneSuch - It is a very broad term, and it's a subject that's taboo for some people, particularly in Western society.

Nerissa

10-18-2007, 04:44 PM

Sometimes for character concept, sometimes simply because the alternative would look HORRIBLE in certain situations.

(Orc males in WoW look really, really dippy on the warlock mount. Big man on tiny horse. I decided to avoid that)

Wolfman

10-18-2007, 05:51 PM

I recommend any guy to try out a female character if he hasn't before, probably as an alt though. You'll notice how creepy and condescending people suddenly become.

Petit-Trot

10-18-2007, 06:11 PM

To OP and like minded posters. I don't understand the question. Have you never played Tomb Raider? In the multiple Final Fantasy games, you refuse to play with the female characters? I don't get it.

Fusko

10-18-2007, 06:37 PM

When my brother quit his female undead mage on WoW, I player her for a while, although I did change the server the character was on and changed the name to 'Kerk'. I chose a guy's name so I wouldn't be confused with a female, and everyone called me Captain. Fun stuff.

abr4

10-18-2007, 07:49 PM

Edit: Nvmd.

UncleShags

10-18-2007, 07:58 PM

In todays world women no longer have to act Feminine and men no longer have to act masculine

Completely disagree. Threads like this are the perfect example of why.

You don't "have" to do anything, but there are very strong motivators which "encourage" you to act the "right" way.

We are a looong way off from living in a utopia where people can act as masculine or as feminine as they want, regardless of their outward appearance, and not be judged.

As for the Chinese MMO gender restriction, I heard it was a made up story.
http://66.225.202.210/news.ars/post/20070927-chinese-mmorpg-banning-cross-gender-roleplayers.html

kissmequick

10-19-2007, 07:04 AM

Not really, mate. I mean, you may know a few. If so, it's a freak of statistics. Extensive surveys have been conducted on the matter. Nick Yee's last one indicated less than 10% of female players played male characters on any kind of regular basis, and I've only met one female player (out of dozens) who did, and other surveys have produced similar results.

Well that's pretty odd, as I think almost all the girl gamers I know have at least one male toon. My WOW main is a bloke, and no I didn't pick it because I didn't want people saying *OMG GURLZ*. It just felt right for the character. Even though I don't RP him, I cn relate to him, in the same way I can relate to men I know IRL( although on a side note, there was at least one person who thougt me and my old man were a couple :))

I don't think your choice of male or female toon reflects anything but the mood you were in at the time you made it tbh, in the same way that the hairstyle you choose for your toon says little or nothing about you.

Grimfell Gromgear

10-19-2007, 07:30 AM

NoneSuch

10-19-2007, 08:53 AM

Completely disagree. Threads like this are the perfect example of why.

You don't "have" to do anything, but there are very strong motivators which "encourage" you to act the "right" way.

That would be the reason why I said "Can" or "no longer have to" - I didn't say it was a perfect world where everyone could behave how they wished infront of others and not be blamed/insulted for it.

But seriously - Now adays people can do pretty much what they like in the limits of reason, the only thing stopping them is the public - And heck If you're attempting to force your opinions, ideas, and beliefs down peoples throats, or attract uneeded attention to yourself it's their own bloody fault if they get insulted.

Everything we do gets judged by others, It'll always be like that .

I wouldn't go about telling people half the stuff I do or get up , or I'd certainly be beaten up :p

Ruinx

10-19-2007, 09:43 AM

RuinX - I'm not going to get into a debate about that here as it's tangential to my point.

The point I'm making is that some people find those issues complicated in real life and find them uncomfortable, MMO's as social games remind them of said issues and thus make them uncomfortable in games as well.

EDIT: *removed any argumentative stance as I decided not to get into one*

It's damn silly Grimfell, how can you find the physical fact that someone has "non-standard" genetalia/genetics "complicated"? There's no excuse for uncomfortability. If they're uncomfortable in games too, it's entirely their own fault and entirely their own issue and they have absolutely no right or justification whatsoever to be inflicting their ignorance, illogical fears and "uncomfortability" on other people.

Your point is utterly invalid, and you really need to be honest and retract your BS calling being transgendered an "alternative lifestyle". If that's an "alternative lifestyle", then so is being born with dark skin, red hair or blue eyes. A fact of birth is a "lifestyle"? Lots of gamers are ignorant racists, too, and uncomfortable with people of other races. Does that mean it's okay for them to be "uncomfortable" with people having dark-skinned characters, for example?

I'm really not sure what you're getting at beyond "There are some painfully naive and sexually insecure people out there and their right to continue being naive, sexually insecure, and in denial of unchangeable physical reality is more important than other people's right to be themselves"? Is there anything else?

Grimfell Gromgear

10-19-2007, 10:15 AM

RuinX- I'm not speaking about my personal views here. I'm extrapolating data from the following known points

LGBT relations are a hotbutton issue with many people
Some people have problems with people playing characters in MMO's outside their own gender (Enough so that in some korean MMO's you can only play characters based on the gender you declare yourself on character creation)
MMO's, as simulations of society, resurface feelings certain people have in real life.It is from these that I come to the conclusion that I believe people are uncomfortable with people playing outside their own gender, is because the same people likely find issues of a similiar nature uncomfortable in real life. I'm neither validating the position or arguing against it. I'm merely stating why I believe such a thing exists.

Now, since you apparently want to know my personal stance on the issue, I defend peoples rights to be uncomfortable with lesbians, bisexuals, transgenders, asexuals, pansexuals, omnisexuals etc. etc. etc. Just like I defend peoples rights to be uncomfortable around people of different races, upbringings, religious orientations, and cultural practices.

I believe all people should be tolerant, but in no way can you force someone to be comfortable with something. To attempt to do so makes someone just as intolerant as the people they rally against.

I utilize the term alternative lifestyle for LGBT individuals and have no problem with it personally. Why? Simply put that all things in life are both choice, and nature. There is nothing a person does that is entirely a subject of their genetics OR upbringing. Both life experience and body chemistries result in who a person becomes, people who attempt to claim one way or the other miss out on what the whole point of human experience is. The reason I don't refer to people of different races decent as alternative lifestyles is because of sheer population density. According to most studies, the percentage of people who define themselves as homosexuals is around 5% or less, bisexuals less than that, and transexuals even smaller. In the same way, I refer to people who live on Native American reservations as living an alternative lifestyle. They had no choice in being born Native American (I'm 1/16th and thus not really one, but have some relatives who are more full blooded), but anyone upholding the old traditions definitely is living an 'Alternative' lifestyle to what is currently mainstream for this country. Now, as for people who are born with say, extermely rare eye colorings. Even though they may make up only 1% of the population, they don't live a different life than everyone else. They don't engage in seperate activity in any way, so I wouldn't call it a lifestyle. Being transexual certainly is a lifestyle (even if you want to argue they have no choice in the mater, it doesn't change the fact that they behave and operate in a manner contrary to cultural norms) and it's certainly not even a mainstream minority, so it's an 'Alternative Lifestyle'

I don't find Transexuals or the thought there of uncomfortable at all. I admit I don't know any but it's not as though that's because I seek to avoid them, they're just not particularly common. I really don't find anything aside from activities that infringe on other peoples activities uncomfortable.

Which is why I believe people should be allowed to be uncomfortable with Transexualism, because I'm not going to infringe on their right to do so. I'll even defend their right to be open about their opinion of disliking it. However, I will not defend their right to engage in activity that would otherwise harm or endanger the safety of anyone, or prevent someone from being who they are. I'm aware people feel words hurt, but I stand by the belief that people should be allowed to express opinions that may be hateful, rude, intollerant, and incorrect, as long as they don't act opressively. I'm not going to sit by and pretend that anyone has the right moral compass no matter how much I agree with them, you can't dictate to someone how they should feel (I think that's kind of the whole point to your argument to isn't it?)

Dracallo

10-19-2007, 10:32 AM

I thought this thread would have been dead by now...:twisted:

Ruinx

10-19-2007, 12:05 PM

Which is why I believe people should be allowed to be uncomfortable with Transexualism, because I'm not going to infringe on their right to do so. I'll even defend their right to be open about their opinion of disliking it. However, I will not defend their right to engage in activity that would otherwise harm or endanger the safety of anyone, or prevent someone from being who they are. I'm aware people feel words hurt, but I stand by the belief that people should be allowed to express opinions that may be hateful, rude, intollerant, and incorrect, as long as they don't act opressively. I'm not going to sit by and pretend that anyone has the right moral compass no matter how much I agree with them, you can't dictate to someone how they should feel (I think that's kind of the whole point to your argument to isn't it?)

Thank you for making your views clearer, because they're pretty unusual. I still don't see what you're actually saying, though. You defend people's right to be uncomfortable, but not to the extent that it would harm, endanger, or prevent someone from being who they are, right?

Well, anything which forces people to select one of two genders and then play all of their characters as if they were that gender is clearly forcing transgendered people (at the the very least) to not be who they are, so why are you apparently defending it?

I'm fine with individuals expressing opinions. I'm not fine with companies with legal obligations doing the same, though. I think there's a big difference between one guy been an idiotic jerk, and a company building a game in such a way as to specifically support his idiot jerk-ery.

PS - Just to be clear, you'd defend the right of someone to be openly racist, too, correct? Not criticising, but I really do suspect double-standards here.

Grimfell Gromgear

10-19-2007, 12:29 PM

Thank you for making your views clearer, because they're pretty unusual. I still don't see what you're actually saying, though. You defend people's right to be uncomfortable, but not to the extent that it would harm, endanger, or prevent someone from being who they are, right?

Well, anything which forces people to select one of two genders and then play all of their characters as if they were that gender is clearly forcing transgendered people (at the the very least) to not be who they are, so why are you apparently defending it?

I'm fine with individuals expressing opinions. I'm not fine with companies with legal obligations doing the same, though. I think there's a big difference between one guy been an idiotic jerk, and a company building a game in such a way as to specifically support his idiot jerk-ery.

PS - Just to be clear, you'd defend the right of someone to be openly racist, too, correct? Not criticising, but I really do suspect double-standards here.

I defend peoples rights to be openly racist, as long as they don't express a desire to commit violence or harm against someone, or admit to or encourage anything along the lines of illegal practices such as discriminated hiring. In other words, I'm fine with people not liking people of a certain race, but I expect them to uphold laws which safeguard racial equality (and thus, if they dislike said laws, to attempt to take the laws down legally through legislation rather than subversion.)

In the same vein, I'm not racist in the least. However, that doesn't mean I always agree with the directions taken by certain members of the civil rights movement. Sometimes I think too much legislation is presented which continues to propogate the belief that the races ARE different and thus minorities need support, rather than the idea that race has nothing to do with absolutely anything. (I am aware that practically this is not the most defensible position and doesn't always work, but I can't help being an idealist.)

Basically, you could say that above all other things, I respect the rights to freedom of speech, and the freedom to 'do whatever you want in the privacy of your own home as long as it doesn't hurt anyone'. Even when people say or do things that I don't personally agree with, I still believe they should be able to do so without being infringed upon.

EXCEPT! And this is a big one. Such rights have no bearing in activities that are voluntary and presented for entertainment purpose, like video games, in my opinion.

Now, the reason I'm fine with people having restrictive character creation in an MMO is because it's a game and it's 100% controlled by the developers. It's a police state where conversations are monitored and edited, where you have no more rights than what you're given, and in which you enter into for entertainment purposes only and are in no way coerced into participation.

While personally I have no problem with people playing characters outside their own genders, I'll defend a game companies right to prevent people from doing so if they choose to. I don't think it's my place to nitpick at what a development company is allowed to do and not to do in a game when it comes to something like this. I also would have no problem with a game somehow only letting people play inside their own race. While it might be silly and offensive, and I might personally think it'd be stupid, I would not begrudge a company from doing that if they decided to (though I'm aware a lot of people would.)

Ruinx

10-19-2007, 01:59 PM

While personally I have no problem with people playing characters outside their own genders, I'll defend a game companies right to prevent people from doing so if they choose to. I don't think it's my place to nitpick at what a development company is allowed to do and not to do in a game when it comes to something like this. I also would have no problem with a game somehow only letting people play inside their own race. While it might be silly and offensive, and I might personally think it'd be stupid, I would not begrudge a company from doing that if they decided to (though I'm aware a lot of people would.)

So you'd be okay if a game company decided you could only play your own race, in a vaguely "real-world-ish" setting (a la The Matrix Online)? And that they decided who was what race? I'm not leading you into a trap, btw, I'm just FASCINATED by this line of argument.

It just seems really questionable to me. In the real world, people's races are all mixed up. So are their genders (albeit less commonly). If someone joins an RPG where you have to play a specific gender based on your real gender, yet they don't have a specific gender, what are they supposed to do? Obviously the same goes with race. If you're Tiger Woods, which box do you tick? Black, Asian or Caucasian?

Also, companies aren't people, and I think it's really really dangerous road to go down if you start treating them as if they were. Companies should not have all the rights of individuals, because protecting companies in the same way, frankly, leads to chaos, where they become completely immune to prosecution for anything (the US is sadly not far from this state in some regards), no matter how grotesque.

(Note that I'm the UK and it's outright illegal to racially abuse someone here. I don't approve of it being illegal, but it makes my perspective a little different.)

Thoden Firehammer

10-19-2007, 02:17 PM

My view is quite simple, let people do what they wish just as long as it does not step on others rights, it's quite a simple view, atleast from the surface, then when you dig further that's when it really gets complicated.

Grimfell Gromgear

10-19-2007, 02:37 PM

So you'd be okay if a game company decided you could only play your own race, in a vaguely "real-world-ish" setting (a la The Matrix Online)? And that they decided who was what race? I'm not leading you into a trap, btw, I'm just FASCINATED by this line of argument.

It just seems really questionable to me. In the real world, people's races are all mixed up. So are their genders (albeit less commonly). If someone joins an RPG where you have to play a specific gender based on your real gender, yet they don't have a specific gender, what are they supposed to do? Obviously the same goes with race. If you're Tiger Woods, which box do you tick? Black, Asian or Caucasian?

Also, companies aren't people, and I think it's really really dangerous road to go down if you start treating them as if they were. Companies should not have all the rights of individuals, because protecting companies in the same way, frankly, leads to chaos, where they become completely immune to prosecution for anything (the US is sadly not far from this state in some regards), no matter how grotesque.

(Note that I'm the UK and it's outright illegal to racially abuse someone here. I don't approve of it being illegal, but it makes my perspective a little different.)

Companies are treated as individuals for most intents and purposes. That's sort of how companies work. If they weren't given those rights, they'd cease to be able to function in a legal capacity for ownership of property and representation in legal cases. The reason you can sue a company specifically is because they're treated like a person.

I mean, the KKK is allowed to have public demonstrations if they wish to and they properly fill out all the paperwork for it. The only thing that prevents companies from expressing any openly racist position is that they know it would kill them financially as everyone would boycott them.

And it's a game. Games don't provide means for playing them if you're blind usually you don't see blind people get up an arms about WoW not being blind people friendly. MMO's are provided as entertainment you can either purchase it if you wish to or not. If they put weird, arcane, draconic abusive rules in them that someone doesn't like, they can choose not to play the game.

Ruinx

10-19-2007, 03:35 PM

I mean, the KKK is allowed to have public demonstrations if they wish to and they properly fill out all the paperwork for it. The only thing that prevents companies from expressing any openly racist position is that they know it would kill them financially as everyone would boycott them.

That's not remotely true if you're talking about American legislation. A company could express a racist position but would immediately be sued for racial discrimination by it's own employees. Any activity even vaguely viewable as "racist" opens it up to massive lawsuits under anti-discrimination laws. Only consistent lobbying from extremist right-wingers has stopped transgendered people being granted the same protection (and even then, only in some states).

The KKK is not a company, just to be clear, so I have no idea what they have to do with this.

Grimfell Gromgear

10-19-2007, 05:36 PM

That's not remotely true if you're talking about American legislation. A company could express a racist position but would immediately be sued for racial discrimination by it's own employees. Any activity even vaguely viewable as "racist" opens it up to massive lawsuits under anti-discrimination laws. Only consistent lobbying from extremist right-wingers has stopped transgendered people being granted the same protection (and even then, only in some states).

The KKK is not a company, just to be clear, so I have no idea what they have to do with this.

No, companies establishing racist practices (like hiring based on certain skin colors) opens them up to litigation, companies doing things like... the PSP advertising campaign that was obviously racist in nature, just get bad reputation. It's the difference between being racist and acting on racist impulses (though of course, showing that one is racist makes people scrutinize your activity more, and sometimes even if you didn't act racistly, well... it's kind of hard to prove your innocence sometimes, since cases can be very vague.) The point is, companies don't get sued for coming out and saying that they have racist views, once they state that, that information will be used to point out to activities they've taken and use it as evidence to prove they've discriminated in action.

I'm saying that I personally defend the KKK's right to state their message of White Pride, while at the same time denouncing the KKK's opressive and dangerous activities. (I also am quite personally opposed to the KKK's views but while I may not agree with what they say I'll defend to the death their right to say it.) As an example of the fact that, yes I defend peoples rights to be 'racist'.

Not just extreme right wing people are uncomfortable with Transgenders, it's one of the least understood, accepted, and honestly numbered groups of the LGBT. To me, it's not an issue of whether or not it's genetic, or choice, or whatever. Way I see it they do whatever they want to do, their reasons are a non-issue.

Oh, and I'm a libertarian.

Thoden Firehammer

10-19-2007, 05:41 PM

Oh, and I'm a libertarian.

-.- I ususaly try to avoid labeling myself.

Wolfman

10-19-2007, 06:26 PM

I'll defend to the death their right to say it.

:rolleyes:

No offense, but that's probably the biggest BS line in history. You would die to defend the KKK?

Thoden Firehammer

10-19-2007, 06:35 PM

:rolleyes:

No offense, but that's probably the biggest BS line in history. You would die to defend the KKK?

You misinterpreted, he said he'd die to defend their rights.

After all, if you takes away the rights of the few, only because of your opinions, then freedom has a doube standard and no longer exists, rights are given to all, equally, no matter what they believe, or how they feel.

Heno

10-19-2007, 08:43 PM

Wolfman

10-19-2007, 09:46 PM

You misinterpreted, he said he'd die to defend their rights.

After all, if you takes away the rights of the few, only because of your opinions, then freedom has a doube standard and no longer exists, rights are given to all, equally, no matter what they believe, or how they feel.

I didn't misinterpret. Instead, I simply reframed his statement into the form of a question that I hoped would provide some perspective. Furthermore, racism, sexism, and bigotry are not valid opinions. Once again, I can see this argument becoming about relativity, where someone will take what I just said and argue that everything is absolutely relative to personal experience, blah blah blah. Well, I'm sorry, but some things in this world are plain wrong no matter the basis you use to define it; whether it be sociological, psychological, biological, moral, or spiritual.

I think people should be able to say whatever they want, but I'm sure not going to lay down my life to protect hatred. I'd be very surprised if anyone here would take action that would put their own life at risk to protect an organization like the KKK.

Typing on a message board is not "defending" the rights of others. Saying and doing are two very different things. I'm a hypocrite, I should know.

Avien

10-20-2007, 12:52 AM

Guys,

let's get this thread back on track before it derails completely. This thread was not made to discuss the political views of particular users, and overall this is not a topic that belongs in this forum.

The original questions was why some men play female toons. It had nothing to do with who supported which group.

So no more political disussion.

Grimfell Gromgear

10-20-2007, 07:02 AM

Wierdly i'm not sure how he's still alive then, since several ammendments recently have removed several rights to "suspected terrorists" one of them of course being free speech.

But hey, maybe he's working on that right now and I shouldn't be ruining his moment.

Notably, my death wouldn't correct the problem (thankfully, I enjoy living), and my abilities to lobby are restricted by the fact that I work for the government. However, I'm doing everything in my power to work towards the reinstatement of such rights because that is one of the most important causes to me. Unfortunately, as just another person... it's not as though I can do much.

But yes, this thread has gotten off topic, and on topic, I think I've really said everything I think I can say on it.

Either said people do it because they like looking at female asses, because they think females better suit the role they're playing, because they have an idea for how to roleplay a female character and wish to, because they enjoy the idea of getting to be a female, because they're curious, or because they wish to potentially get more assistance in game.