One Way Flagging

[davver]

The definition of "your PvE area" is up to you. Vote based on whatever your current understanding is.

A one way flag means that you can attack the enemy, but they can't attack you (well, they can fight back, but from your end you have to initiate the fight).

We are talking about a standard ruleset server here. Assume for a moment it is the only thing that exists.

[WarMachine]

I'm actually all for autoflagging on entering an enemy faction's zone. That will also aleveate some fears of players just hanging out in the opposing zones. They should also be foreced to respawn back in their own zone (its not that bad for PQers, as most of the PQs I'm sure don't require you to go all the way to the end of the oposing faction's zone).

EDIT:

A one way flag means that you can attack the enemy, but they can't attack you (well, they can fight back, but from your end you have to initiate the fight).

Thats also assuming that the player in the friendly zone isn't already flagged.

[Loekii]

In my opinion, I see entering the enemy's territory as a form of concenting to PvP.

While not directly RvR, it is a step closer to RvR than simply PvEing in your homeland/friendly territory, so I would not think it a stretch to associate PvP with 'incursion quests' -- quests that take you into enemy PvE territory.

Ideally, I hope they enhance the flag system to elminate the abuses seen in others games (ie 'Your name flashes Red when you type /PvP, and you are delayed from turning PvP+ for 10 seconds -- thus alerting players that you are about to become PvP enabled.).

[Sturmer]

Anyone know what is this PvP flaging about, that EAMythic announced?
I mean can I still attack all Tier4 players in Tier4 RvR area? Or does it only concern about Tier4 PvE areas?

[Saidin]

This is more of a concern going into an enemy players PvE area, while some may disagree with PvP flagging in a game where "War is everywhere" I completely agree with flagging yourself for PvP in your own PvE area.

Mythic a long time ago stated that if you wanted to level up completely in a PvE safe area of the game that it would be possible. If enemy players are able to enter in your PvE areas without immediate consequence then each player should have the right to say "no thanks i dont wanna worry about ganking, PvPing right now"

Now I am all for world RvR everywhere, but the fact is as a game development company you have to concern yourself with every possible player at every possible moment and I think there are enough people who at some times just would rather not PvP.

my $0.02

[Rabbit Slayer]

The definition of "your PvE area" is up to you. Vote based on whatever your current understanding is.

A one way flag means that you can attack the enemy, but they can't attack you (well, they can fight back, but from your end you have to initiate the fight).

We are talking about a standard ruleset server here. Assume for a moment it is the only thing that exists.
really davver let it go. I think you got your answer from the mythic guys already.

[Shillen]

I had assumed this would be the case. This is the bare minimum requirement, IMO, to maintain the RvR atmosphere of the game. If a dwarf can run around in greenskin territory unopposed then the whole "war" is just a farce. Welcome to WoW version 2 if they don't autoflag you.

[Trollcutie]

I had assumed this would be the case. This is the bare minimum requirement, IMO, to maintain the RvR atmosphere of the game. If a dwarf can run around in greenskin territory unopposed then the whole "war" is just a farce. Welcome to WoW version 2 if they don't autoflag you.
why would the whole war just be a farce? just cause its not pvp everywhere doesn't mean there isn't war everywhere

really davver let it go. I think you got your answer from the mythic guys already.

what are you talking about? did he get an interview with a mythic employee?

[JonnyWarhawk]

I don't see why not. Order and Destruction running around next to eachother not being able to attack is a TERRIBLE idea in the WAR universe.

[Drusain]

Has there been something weird going around the Mythic company lately? I have always assumed that you could only go as far into the enemy realm's territory as to the edge of their battlefield. What's the flagging crap doing in a Mythic game?

I don't know why "BoE" and "BoP" are being used to talk about gear either.

[Loekii]

Anyone know what is this PvP flaging about, that EAMythic announced?
I mean can I still attack all Tier4 players in Tier4 RvR area? Or does it only concern about Tier4 PvE areas?

It is just talking about the PvE areas.

In the RvR areas, everyone is flagged PVP -- meaning that you can attack anyone on the enemy faction.

This system now means that if you see an enemy in your PvE area, and they are PvP Flagged, you can choose to:


Turn on PvP for yourself (flag PvP), and go attack the player -- or be attacked by other enemy PvP players.
Remain PvE Only (keep your PvP flag Off), and not be able to attack, nor be attacked by, enemy PvP players.Does that answer your question?

[Zeetchmen]

This could be fixed/delt with/improved by makeing RvR servers, entering enemys PvE areas auto flag you 8-)

[Aqueous]

Yeah .... I was pretty sad when I saw an interview with Sanya where she said that in PvE areas youd be able to see and gesture at the enemy, but have no meaningful conversation, I was sad to hear youll be seeing the enemy in a non-combat setting. Sorry, I don't have the link for that, it was in another thread.

[Sturmer]

Does that answer your question?

Yes it did. Thank you for it :)

Just was unsure about it because all this panic, that people have about it. Anyway its really nice compromise for FFA players.

And it should be used some way to keep enemy players out of your PvE area.

[Axxar]

The enemy Realm has no business in your PvE area, so in my opinion should be fair game while there.

[Loekii]

While I can respect the desire/need to offer a PvE setting -- free from PvP risk, I don't think that 'need' must extend to incursions into enemy territory.

For those seeking a PvP Break, or simply desiring PvE only, the option is provided by simply PvEing in your own factions territories.

Accepting PvE quests that take you into enemy territory, is much like taking a quest that takes you int RvR territory. In a sense:

Enemy PvE Territory = RvR TerritorySo, in my opinion, you should be auto-flagged.

Someone desiring to avoid PvP, would avoid those quests, just as they avoid RvR quest.

That is how I would like to see it, but I can understand that some may desire to quest PvP-Free in enemy territory. The issue is that desire must be matched against the desire to be able to attack enemy players when seen.

[Myth]

The Enemy just shouldn't be able to enter PvE territory unless some game mechanic changes that area to a contested RvR zone. Frontlines in a war move, therefore the PvP enabled or disable status of some zones should be able to change.

Making lots of if you do this but not if you do that arbitrary rules regarding what enables a flag leads to innumerable exploits and problems.

[Shillen]

why would the whole war just be a farce? just cause its not pvp everywhere doesn't mean there isn't war everywhere


I'm not even saying you should be able to PvP anywhere. But, likewise, you shouldn't be able to PvE anywhere you want to, either. Entering enemy territory should be a risky endeavor, not a pleasure trip. If you want to avoid PvP then PvE in your own territory, not enemy territory.

[Loekii]

The Enemy just shouldn't be able to enter PvE territory unless some game mechanic changes that area to a contested RvR zone. Frontlines in a war move, therefore the PvP enabled or disable status of some zones should be able to change.

Making lots of if you do this but not if you do that arbitrary rules regarding what enables a flag leads to innumerable exploits and problems.

The point is that Mythic has designed PvE areas to be shared -- ie Destruction have PvE objectives in Order's PvE areas (and visa versa).

This has been the case for a while, but wasn't understood by some. Now we all know, and are discussing the game from with that information.

[Stingray]

(editted to remove rant and be more productive)

While I dislike the flagging I do believe if they have it that if the enemy enters your PvE zone they are free game no matter what. Enemy players should not be in your lands period but if they roam over there then they should be a target. That will discourage players from being places they do not belong IMO.

[Bear]

This poll is very flawed in it's wording and thus the results are meaningless. According to the podcasts, there are very few PvE areas that are "mine" or "yours". Most are actually shared areas.

[WarMachine]

This poll is very flawed in it's wording and thus the results are meaningless. According to the podcasts, there are very few PvE areas that are "mine" or "yours". Most are actually shared areas.
But the zones are predominetly friendly or enemy. Its not one big combined zone.

[Bear]

But the zones are predominetly friendly or enemy. Its not one big combined zone.... and you know this because? I look at the podcasts and see something entirely different myself.

[davver]

This poll is very flawed in it's wording and thus the results are meaningless. According to the podcasts, there are very few PvE areas that are "mine" or "yours". Most are actually shared areas.

Bear,

Like on the beta forums, I'll be ignoring you from here on out. Try not to violate the NDA by making comments about current zone layout and your perception of it, there is a reason the question doesn't include my own definitions of things.

[Bear]

Bear,

Like on the beta forums, I'll be ignoring you from here on out. Try not to violate the NDA by making comments about current zone layout and your perception of it, there is a reason the question doesn't include my own definitions of things.What are you talking about? I refered to what is shown in the podcasts.

[Rabbit Slayer]

What are you talking about? I refered to what is shown in the podcasts.
davaar reads only what he wants to read

[dutch_gamer]

(editted to remove rant and be more productive)

While I dislike the flagging I do believe if they have it that if the enemy enters your PvE zone they are free game no matter what. Enemy players should not be in your lands period but if they roam over there then they should be a target. That will discourage players from being places they do not belong IMO.

The enemy should be able to walk into your land because they are invading it. WAR is about the other side invading your lands, through PvP but also through PvE. The game isn't about leveling up in your own lands, to then only invade them in the Tier 4 areas. The stories accompanied with every single map they have given us through the newsletters have always shown this. Because they are invading your lands, it would make absolutely no sense to have boundaries keeping the sides separated.

If a Dwarf would build a gate to keep the Greenskins out, why would they not be able to go the Greenskin area through their own gates? You are a part of an army, there is no reason to stop anyone from going through a gate if there was one. So there is also no reason to need such a boundary. Warhammer is basically the invasion server Mythic asked us about in a poll for DAoC, many years ago.

Anyway, I am in favor of flagging the enemy for PvP, but not instantly. I can see someone entering the PvE area of the enemy by accident, they should get time to realize they made a mistake, and back out before it is too late. PvP should be consensual at all times and even when you enter a PvP area, you get a timer, which we all know about since the very last real E3 (2006).

[Chillaxe]

This poll is very flawed in it's wording and thus the results are meaningless. According to the podcasts, there are very few PvE areas that are "mine" or "yours". Most are actually shared areas.

Then they better put in some lines =P

[sb220]

Actually the rvr "battlefronts" podcast clearly states..."...Each of these zones are controlled by one race or the other" and it encompassed pve areas as well as rvr areas

[Loekii]

Then they better put in some lines =P

The FAQ explains how the areas will be marked in Red on the player maps, and I suspect there will also be a 'system Message' of some sort announcing you have crossed the line.

How will PvP areas be separated from PvE areas in a zone?
Each zone in WAR will have both PvE and PvP areas. PvP areas are clearly outlined in red on the map and upon entering, you will have a few seconds to exit before being flagged for PvP. If you exit the PvP area, enemies will still be able to attack you for a few minutes outside of the PvP area.

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/faq.php?faq=12#faq_12d

If there is auto-flagging in Enemy PvE areas, I would think we would see a simular system.

[Sturmer]

Anyway, I am in favor of flagging the enemy for PvP, but not instantly. I can see someone entering the PvE area of the enemy by accident, they should get time to realize they made a mistake, and back out before it is too late. PvP should be consensual at all times and even when you enter a PvP area, you get a timer, which we all know about since the very last real E3 (2006).

Agree.
They have that warning text and timer when you enter RvR area.
Small change in text and same timer can be used when entering enemy PvE area.

[harrytheterrible]

it will definitely be one way flagging when the come into pve i mean how could the refuse this when so many people want it

[WarMachine]

... and you know this because? I look at the podcasts and see something entirely different myself.
Becasue the podcasts refer to it as "your zone" and your "opponet's zone", leading me to believe that one side predominetly controls one side or the other.

[Rime]

Enemy auto/perma-flagged for PvP in opposing faction's PvE zone? Yes (maybe with a 10 second delay upon entering said zone)

Now where I am conflicted is on how the enemy should be able to be attacked. Of course I feel the "home" faction should be able to attack, but should they have to flag themselves first or not? If they do have to flag first, should they just type /pvp and instantly flag? (their name tag immediately going from green to red) Or would there be a delay after typing /pvp? (maybe name would change to orange then red after 5/10 seconds)

Or should the "home" faction be able to attack flagged enemys while they themselves are still unflagged? (this would obviously flag the attacker instantly) The unflagged attacker would have an advantage because he gets the first shot in.(but maybe he should have the advantage since it is his zone) If it were done this way the flagged enemy may be able to trick unflagged players into flagging themselves.

I really don't even know what the term "home PvE zone" is going to mean. All I can say is I trust Mythic to make a great game.


Nothing new in my post that hasn't been said a thousand times

[Loekii]

In my opinion, there needs to be some sort of delay and 'indicator' for when the Home team decides to switch to PvP.

WoW's system of 'click, you can attack now' was abused constantly.

Warmachine had a good idea:

10 second delay after turning on PvP flag
Name flashes RED for those 10 seconds, alerting everyone that you are 'drawing your sword'.If you want to get into PvP, then you should no have a game mechanic give you an advantage -- aka being able to attack from an Unattackable status.

[Rime]

If you want to get into PvP, then you should no have a game mechanic give you an advantage -- aka being able to attack from an Unattackable status.

Agreed

The choice of whether to flag and fight or stay unflagged and continue on your way seems like enough of a "home field advantage" to me.

edit: The more I think about it the more I like the 10 second delay with flashing red name from typing /pvp to actually flagging as opposed to immediately flagging after /pvp. Here's an example...

Unflagged Runepriest questing in his PvE zone runs across say a Hammerer and a Black Orc figthing it out. Runepriest decides he's going to heal Hammerer. If he can just stay unflagged and wait until Hammerer is almost dead, type /pvp, immediately flag and throw out a giant heal that is pretty much the same thing as being able to heal the Hammerer without flagging first.

[XShrike]

If you are in the PvP areas or hostile PvE areas you should always be flagged. If you are in your PvE areas you should only be flagged through a command or attacking a hostile player.

[Kinthral]

I'm unsure on this one. I guess the big problem is that without it you get an Order guild and a Destruction guild fighting against a Bloodthirster together (okay, that may be a bit extreme as the "final" bosses will likely be instanced). Maybe if everyone flags a few minutes after the boss dies and everyone remembers that they want to kill each other after working together and taking down a "greater evil".

Unattackable to attackable on the first huge damage spell is dumb, I like Warmachine's ideas of having a delay and visual indicator you are flagging.

I don't like any of the ideas I've heard though, from Mythic or suggestions (Warmachine's seems like the fairest compromise). Seems like it's a matter of picking the lesser of two evils: coop PvE or losing out on any chance of PvPing in the PvE areas. :-?

[Unless of course we know there are going to be PvP servers, in which case make the PvP servers as they are right now with autoflagging, and then the PvE servers as they were before manual flagging.]

[Dracohouston]

*EDITED for content*

[SteelPulse]

So from what i understand PvP setup for Warhammer looks likes this.

1. RvR zones are all open PvP
2. All exploration land is open PvP
3. All cities are open PvP
4. All PvE zones are open to flagging which allows you to chose if you want to fight or not, which im sure we all will if an oposing faction invades your PvE zones.
5. Only non PvP instances are Publc Quest

So that would tell me that 90% of all instances and land is PvP friendly except Public Quest, and if you dont PvP the you will be out of 90% of all EXP gains and rewards.

Sounds like the perfect PvP based ruleset ive ever seen...

[Xilbalba]

Wow as of this post the consensus is clear 108 to...8 in favor of flagging. I really hope some WAR devs take note of this thread.

[Baron Khaine]

I'll just quote myself from another thread to show my opinions on the matter.

Heres my opinion of how things should work.

Lets take 2 players for an example, one is an Orc, the other is a Dwarf. Now the Dwarf gets a quest to go and poison the Orcs water supply, or something like that. To do this, he must battle his way accross the PvP zone (As I remember it, the 2 zones are connected by the PvP zone), when he gets to the Orcs PvE zone, he is still flagged for PvP, now he must continue to his objective. Now, along comes our Orc, doing a quest in his own PvE zone, collecting mushrooms or some such, when he sees the Dwarf running along in his PvE zone, with PvP enabled. The Dwarf freezes, having been seen, however, he can't do anything, because the Orc is not flagged for PvP, as it is the Orcs PvE zone, so he decides to carry on with his objective. The Orc on the other hand is now faced with a decision, should he continue on his quest to gather mushrooms, or should he engage the Dwarf in glorious battle, it is up to the Orc to decide.

Now from some of the opinions in this thread, most of you seem to think that the above story would go a lil bit different, such as when the Orc sees the Dwarf, the Orc runs away screaming, logs off, and destroys his copy of the game, because he has had his "immersion" ruined, by seeing a Dwarf player in his PvE zone.

Who do you think you will be doing PvE quests against? Dwarfs is who.

On an RP server, the story would go that the Orc decided to engage in combat with the Dwarf, because its an RP server, so they would be Roleplaying, and therefore the whole racial adversaries thing kicks in, and blah blah Dwarfs hate Orcs and vice versa blah blah.

On a regular server, the story could go either way, if the Dwarf is more powerful than the Orc, chances are the Orc will just leave the Dwarf be, and continue on his merry mushroom collecting way, if the Orc is more powerful than the Dwarf, the Orc would engage the Dwarf in combat, and then continue upon his mushroom collecting quest, safe in the knowledge that his water is clean, and with a new dwarf beard to boot.

Its pretty simple, and some of the opinions in this thread have been really weird thus far, maybe they didn't understand how the flagging system would work, but meh thats how I see it.

The whole "War is everywhere" argument is null. As you will be doing quests to further the war effort. Therefore, war is everywhere, but war doesn't mean mindless killing, it means poisoning there water supply, or picking mushrooms, to feed to shamans, so they can use there powers to bring a foot of Gork or Mork down on the Dwarf settlement.

[Feigro]

To do this, he must battle his way accross the PvP zone (As I remember it, the 2 zones are connected by the PvP zone)

Just letting you know, this is not the case. At least, not in any of the Dwarf Tiers.

[Baron Khaine]

Just letting you know, this is not the case. At least, not in any of the Dwarf Tiers.

Yeah I figured they might have changed it, couldn't be bothered to go looking though, I remember from one of the really old podcasts or videos or something they said that the zones would be connected through the PvP zones, ta for clearing it up.

[Feigro]

Yeah I figured they might have changed it, couldn't be bothered to go looking though, I remember from one of the really old podcasts or videos or something they said that the zones would be connected through the PvP zones, ta for clearing it up.

As far as I know this is how it's always been. Though the earliest direct source I could point to on the matter is of November 06. However, due to the nature of development, for the content to have been cited as "pretty much done" in the video, then this would have to have been the way it was intended far before November. Especially considering we're not even sure when the video was actually recorded. That said, at the very least it's been this way for over a year.

(This (http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/media/podcast/files/WAR-pp_2006-11_Atlas.html) podcast displays maps with indicated RvR areas, which further coincide with other maps of the same areas. The best examples that zones aren't connect through RvR areas would be Barak Var/Marshes and Blackfire/Badlands)

[RedAries]

In my opinion, you would need to manually flag (/pvp) to attack someone invading your areas. Any Area Effect abilities you use will have NO effect on enemy players unless you are flagged, and as such will NOT auto-flag you. This prevents abuse where enemy players will run into your AE ability (especially for things like the chosen which apparently from a dev intervew will work like a negative effect aura on all enemies nearby.)

Oh and I voted "auto-flag invadors"


Now where I am conflicted is on how the enemy should be able to be attacked. Of course I feel the "home" faction should be able to attack, but should they have to flag themselves first or not? If they do have to flag first, should they just type /pvp and instantly flag? (their name tag immediately going from green to red) Or would there be a delay after typing /pvp? (maybe name would change to orange then red after 5/10 seconds)

Or should the "home" faction be able to attack flagged enemys while they themselves are still unflagged? (this would obviously flag the attacker instantly) The unflagged attacker would have an advantage because he gets the first shot in.(but maybe he should have the advantage since it is his zone) If it were done this way the flagged enemy may be able to trick unflagged players into flagging themselves.

[SteelPulse]

In my opinion, there needs to be some sort of delay and 'indicator' for when the Home team decides to switch to PvP.

WoW's system of 'click, you can attack now' was abused constantly.

Warmachine had a good idea:

10 second delay after turning on PvP flag
Name flashes RED for those 10 seconds, alerting everyone that you are 'drawing your sword'.If you want to get into PvP, then you should no have a game mechanic give you an advantage -- aka being able to attack from an Unattackable status.

If you invade another factions zones expect to be attack instantly, why would they need to be alerted.... Hey stuntie im going to attack and kill you is that ok? I refuse to wait 10 sec to kill my enemy, i will simply kill on site.....

[Disciple]

yes. if a lv 40 enters a lv 10 , the 40 should NOT be able to attack anyone unless they flag themselves. wtf is a 40 doing in a lv 10 zone? she/he should be able to be attacked.