PvE "Flagging" - A Proposal - "Locked" Zones

[Montbrun]

I took another look at Podcasts 3 and 7, and it is now clear to me that, like other people here, I misunderstood how quests in your enemy's zones work. Although it is not explicitly stated, and "flagging" is not mentioned, it is obvious that we are to "share" zones for quests. I had made the assumption the this game would be similar to DAoC, where the enemy is physically prohibited from entering your "home" zones. I feel that this mechanic is damaging to the overall game system, and the feeling of "WAR is everywhere," if a player is not able to attack an enemy at any time, especially if that enemy is in your zone, questing. Therefore I am going to propose something very simple.

Lets use the Dwarf vs. Greenskin Tier 1 as an example. The dwarf zone is Ekrund, and the Greenskin zone is Mt. Bloodhorn. There are several PvE areas, for both sides, within in each of these zones, as well as one PvP area.

I propose that the friendly zone be LOCKED (and their questing areas) to the enemy until the goals of the Tier's PvP Scenario(s) are met. This way, you would never see the enemy within your friendly zone unless they win the PvP portion of the exercise. Then, you, or the enemy, could flood the opposing faction's zone, and the respective quests would be "unlocked." This would definately retain the immersion, realm pride, "realism," and "WAR is everywhere" feeling of the game. It would give everyone the incentive to achieve the goals of the respective Battlefront. In fact, each Tier would have more of a feeling of a true "Battlefront," and the quests that are located within the opposing faction's zone could be tuned to represent "mopping up," or "stubborn resistance" type of quests. With this idea, there would have to be a small "Safe" area within the Tier 1 zone for newly created characters, becoming acclimated to the new game.

Thoughts?

[Medzu]

...

Stop blowing things out of proportion.

At least it gives all of the 'chicken' kids something to talk about until the next thing they hate comes up.

[U4godlike]

...

Stop blowing things out of proportion.

At least it gives all of the 'chicken' kids something to talk about until the next thing they hate comes up.
Haha wow... Id think a guild leader would have a little more respect if you dont have anything productive why even bother posting? :rolleyes:

I like it, its a great idea I would love to see this in action and personally it seems like a great compromise IMO PvE areas wont always be filled with enemys but they can be and their is a good reason for it :D

[sb220]

This may actually be the way things work. I have read where quests become "unlocked" as your faction progresses. Its a good bet that these border-crossing quests are exactly what they are talking about.

Im hoping these border-crossing quests are limited to the outskirt zones. I still dont want to see enemies outside the starting cities, so hopefully these zones are inaccessible due to kos guards.
Whatever the case, at least its temporary and as you level everything becomes rvr and flagging becomes a non-issue.

[CrazyGoldShield]

Wow, I thought the flagging system was a horrible idea, but if it works like this it might have some merit.

[shotgunbadger]

Eh, seems pointless really.

It's not a BAD idea by any means (and I was expecting some "awww I just wanna quest lemmie flag to not get hit by mean PvPers!" whinefest), but I just don't think the game needs it. It feels more....warlike to not have to wait to go wild on the other side.

[Roargh]

So if i am correct, this will make the PvE borders work like the Tier4 zone.

Neutral in the middle, he who gains the neutral control, may advance.
Only the PvE part that is then.

Actually i think it is a brilliant idea my man.
Thou hast my vote cast upon thee.

[Loekii]

Eh, seems pointless really.

It's not a BAD idea by any means (and I was expecting some "awww I just wanna quest lemmie flag to not get hit by mean PvPers!" whinefest), but I just don't think the game needs it. It feels more....warlike to not have to wait to go wild on the other side.

I agree.

'Invisible barriers' such as these are bad, not to mention it might kill the quest themes already established by having to 'wait' to open the zones.

The problem is not that you can see the enemy in your PvE zones that is disruptive to the spirit, it is that PvE zones / aka Safe-Zones exist at all. However, that is something that is not going to change either.

I like what has been stated by others in other threads:
Auto-flagging for Enemies in PvE zones.
Flashing Name Delay as you turn on your PvP flag.That should help minimize the amount of people that are disrupted by the /PvE immunity -- at least to just those enemies that enter their opponents PvE area -- basically you know what you are getting into when you choose to take the quest/enter the area. The Friendly players, have the option to engage the enemy or not, so they really are not restricted by a PvE flag. And fixing /flaging exploits will help reduce the abuse of the mechanic.

As I said above, I think it is a decent idea, but I think there are better options.

And I do want to acknowledge and thank Montburn for not only acknowledging his mistake, but also for pro-actively proposing a potential solution.

[dutch_gamer]

Horrid, horrid idea.

Why, I will show you one picture that shows the why in a different Tier 1 zone.

http://tiamat.gotdns.org/~rafe/pqcrossrealm.jpg

You don't simply have quests there. You have your chapters in those areas. Chapters are your quest hubs. With other words, you will be able to stop someone from being able to level up through PvE from 6 to 10, with the idea of the OP.

This game shouldn't be about forced PvP. You can't force everyone to first have to win something in PvP in order to be able to do the rest of their quests, in the second half of each Tier. This is an RvR game, not a PvP game.

Note: This is all convention material and from the Fansite Gathering (which is where they have explained the amount of chapters and them being quest hubs for all of your quests for a certain amount of Ranks.

[sb220]

Horrid, horrid idea.

Why, I will show you one picture that shows the why in a different Tier 1 zone.

http://tiamat.gotdns.org/~rafe/pqcrossrealm.jpg

You don't simply have quests there. You have your chapters in those areas. Chapters are your quest hubs. With other words, you will be able to stop someone from being able to level up through PvE from 6 to 10, with the idea of the OP.

This game shouldn't be about forced PvP. You can't force everyone to first have to win something in PvP in order to be able to do the rest of their quests, in the second half of each Tier. This is an RvR game, not a PvP game.

Note: This is all convention material and from the Fansite Gathering (which is where they have explained the amount of chapters and them being quest hubs for all of your quests for a certain amount of Ranks.

Actually this is an RvR game, not a PVE game

[dutch_gamer]

Actually this is an RvR game, not a PVE game

Did you even read my post, I said this is an RvR game. RvR means PvP AND PvE. It is also a game with consensual PvP just as in DAoC. The idea described in this thread will make it forced PvP, in order to be able to level up further through PvE. Then the game is no longer about consensual PvP.

[Bargad]

I like the idea, and think it could work really well.

But they say it's pretty much polishing and balancing until early 2008, so it could go in, but I strongly doubt it (unless it has already been implemented)

[sb220]

Yeah I read your post. Your not forced to pvp.
But its not a horrid idea to think that you have to unlock areas through rvr to progress in certain ways. You can level regardless what you do. Quests, pvp, farming mobs.
Certain things are going to be locked and only opened through rvr....that much we know. We dont know exactly what those things are yet.

[davver]

I'm sort of bound not to be very specific on how things work right now. However, it all breaks down to one simple question. Please vote here:

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20505

[Rabbit Slayer]

I feel that this mechanic is damaging to the overall game system, and the feeling of "WAR is everywhere," if a player is not able to attack an enemy at any time

Thoughts?
how is having pve zones affect the War is everywhere?

[Feigro]

Certain things are going to be locked and only opened through rvr....that much we know. We dont know exactly what those things are yet.

Capitals and Scenarios. Everything else is pretty much accesible at this point (that we're aware of, sure).

In Tier 4, if the contested zone is currently Praag(the neutral zone)- ALL players could still go into Reikland (the Empire T4 zone) and quest, PvP, and do all manner of things. What they can't do however, is Reiklands scenarios. Additionally, they gain no Victory points toward their realm.

But it's not as if you're a Chaos player, you need to own Praag to be able to Access Reikland. You can go there whenever you want. Hell, you could go there even if Order owns Praag. The thing is, it's not the contest zone, so your actions there wouldn't have a bearing on the war effort.

That's the info as it was last described.

[dutch_gamer]

I misread the idea slightly, I do still stand by opinion that is not a great idea. They aren't going to alter the whole world, just to pull this off. Because the world would have to be altered for this. So count on seeing the enemy in your areas, with or without winning in PvP.

There are much better ideas out there, but unfortunately, I can't say anything about those right now. And that is all I am going to say.

@ Feigro. Thanks again. Good to see that you are very knowledgeable about the zones and the way RvR works. It is all from information we have gotten in the past months. The only problem is that not everything is in one particular podcast, I wish it was.

[sb220]

how is having pve zones affect the War is everywhere?

Having greenskins and dwarfs pve'ing beside one another when they are suppossed to be in a war.

[dutch_gamer]

Having greenskins and dwarfs pve'ing beside one another when they are suppossed to be in a war.

The deal is that people are using the phrase "war is everywhere" to mean something else entirely. The phrase is NOT about PvP. The phrase is about the fact that everything you do in the game contributes to the war; even PvE will give Victory Points which is the deciding factor in which side will own the zone.

[sb220]

Capitals and Scenarios. Everything else is pretty much accesible at this point (that we're aware of, sure).

In Tier 4, if the contested zone is currently Praag(the neutral zone)- ALL players could still go into Reikland (the Empire T4 zone) and quest, PvP, and do all manner of things. What they can't do however, is Reiklands scenarios. Additionally, they gain no Victory points toward their realm.

But it's not as if you're a Chaos player, you need to own Praag to be able to Access Reikland. You can go there whenever you want. Hell, you could go there even if Order owns Praag. The thing is, it's not the contest zone, so your actions there wouldn't have a bearing on the war effort.

That's the info as it was last described.

Well thats dumb then...give enemies an instance of the zone then. If I cant see em, they arent there

[sb220]

The deal is that people are using the phrase "war is everywhere" to mean something else entirely. The phrase is NOT about PvP. The phrase is about the fact that everything you do in the game contributes to the war; even PvE will give Victory Points which is the deciding factor in which side will own the zone.

Yeah I know that but how does anyone justify a greenskin and a dwarf farming mobs beside eachother?

[Feigro]

Yeah I know that but how does anyone justify a greenskin and a dwarf farming mobs beside eachother?

This is where I think people start going to extremes. Because I don't think this will be the case. I think it would be rather like this;

Marshes of Madness;

Dwarfs are around the tree of beards doing their PQ in one part of the marsh.
Orcs will be killing dwarf NPCs in a mine at another part of the marsh.


People are continuously going to the extremes thinking that a Dwarf and an Orc will go into the Marshes and will both get a quest to kill 10 bears near fraggle rock.

[sb220]

I dunno...if they can farm there, they will. Unless mobs that dwarf's farm give bad consequences or are outright unattackable by greenskins. You will see the races mingled all over.

[Trollcutie]

Having greenskins and dwarfs pve'ing beside one another when they are suppossed to be in a war.

who said they will quest beside each other?

[WarMachine]

I propose that the friendly zone be LOCKED (and their questing areas) to the enemy until the goals of the Tier's PvP Scenario(s) are met.
.................
Thoughts?
Horrible idea, what do you do when the RvR zone is in the middle of the zone and not the edge?

[sb220]

who said they will quest beside each other?

Quests are not the issue. Its the whole accessibilty issue...Be ready for your enemy to come have a picnic in your zone, play ring around the roses and what not......If they can they will.

[Monbackey]

I agree with the system of flagging they have in place right now. I think that an enemy should be able to enter your zone at any time, which is realistic, even though they will not be able to attack you.

[sb220]

I agree with the system of flagging they have in place right now. I think that an enemy should be able to enter your zone at any time, which is realistic, even though they will not be able to attack you.


Realistic? how? in what war did enemies leave the battlefield and then go run around together wihtout fighting?

Oh yeah my dwarf can /rude that greenskin standing there....great

[Thoden Firehammer]

who said they will quest beside each other?


who said they wouldn't?

[Trollcutie]

Quests are not the issue. Its the whole accessibilty issue...Be ready for your enemy to come have a picnic in your zone, play ring around the roses and what not......If they can they will.
you know this because you are in the beta?

and you are arguing realisim in a game with orcs, elves and dwarves?

[Thoden Firehammer]

you know this because you are in the beta?

and you are arguing realisim in a game with orcs, elves and dwarves?


Ohh, I love it when someone tries this argument.

He's talking about IP, even if it is a fantasy universe the thigns still have to fit within the rules of that particualr setting and as such Dwarfs and Orcs would not just stand around each other killing anmials and what not, than when they're done, wave at eacdh other and be on their marry way

[Feigro]

Horrible idea, what do you do when the RvR zone is in the middle of the zone and not the edge?

This so far is the biggest wrench in the idea. Additionally, I think it's the most revealing bit that indicates people were able to go into enemy PvE areas in the first place. So much so that I've been looking for the specific zone maps that displayed where the RvR zones would be ever since Friday. Sadly, the gallery I distinctly remember giving the clearest view of the zones was the WAR-RVR one. Which doesn't work anymore.

So, to give people some idea of the whole scheme, courtesy of MS Paint, here are the rough RvR areas for a few zones;

RED = RvR area.


Barak Varr (http://a678.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/41/l_dcb0f5499c6f4d0e16a346484e483ad5.jpg)
Marshes of Madness (http://a166.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/24/l_3092ca67c9e71539f73512a250c4277d.jpg)
Blackfire Pass (http://a681.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/48/l_c8d9935dda6e2610af9b2459499c8930.jpg)
Badlands (http://a724.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/89/l_2a59e86bff5492dbd61ccd3657054863.jpg)


It's obvious that for any RvR to take place in the Dwarf/Orc Tier 2, or Tier 3, then passage would need to be allowed for both factions through the PvE areas.

[Trollcutie]

Ohh, I love it when someone tries this argument.

He's talking about IP, even if it is a fantasy universe the thigns still have to fit within the rules of that particualr setting and as such Dwarfs and Orcs would not just stand around each other killing anmials and what not, than when they're done, wave at eacdh other and be on their marry way
from what I have seen and heard there is no animal killing what so ever. It is all about WAR and destroying the other side so if you are doing pve you are attacking the other sides npcs not bears. So from what I have heard you will not be people hanging out kiling bears together.

Realistic? how? in what war did enemies leave the battlefield and then go run around together wihtout fighting?

Oh yeah my dwarf can /rude that greenskin standing there....great

oh I do remember hearing stories of how in WW1 the soldiers cleared the field and played soccer with each other. Incidents like this happend throughout WW1 and other wars as well. So there goes your whole argument

[Montbrun]

The issue here is the the RvR system, taken as a whole, how the PvP and PvE elements work together, is the essential foundation of the game. Everything else - Tactics, Morale, whether Marauders have 2 mutations or 3, are details. If the foundation is in question, everything else is moot.

WAR is about the ultimate struggle for survival. There is no "gray area." It is kill or be killed. The struggle between Order and Destruction is ever-present, endemic and generational. If you encounter a mortal enemy, you should be able to engage that enemy. My suggestion would help to engender this feeling, as well as protect the predominantly PvEers in the community.

The last thing I want to see is WAR being one big WoW PvE server.

[Rowhin]

from what I have seen and heard there is no animal killing what so ever. It is all about WAR and destroying the other side so if you are doing pve you are attacking the other sides npcs not bears. So from what I have heard you will not be people hanging out kiling bears together.



Sorry to disappoint you mate, but there will be animal killing. There just won't be bunny rabbit killing. But boars, wolves, etc? They're definitely in.

[Trollcutie]

The issue here is the the RvR system, taken as a whole, how the PvP and PvE elements work together, is the essential foundation of the game. Everything else - Tactics, Morale, whether Marauders have 2 mutations or 3, are details. If the foundation is in question, everything else is moot.

WAR is about the ultimate struggle for survival. There is no "gray area." It is kill or be killed. The struggle between Order and Destruction is ever-present, endemic and generational. If you encounter a mortal enemy, you should be able to engage that enemy. My suggestion would help to engender this feeling, as well as protect the predominantly PvEers in the community.

The last thing I want to see is WAR being one big WoW PvE server.
do you honestly think that they won't release diffrent ruelsets for diffrent servers? The last thing they want to do is restrict their player database.

[Trollcutie]

Soory to disappoint you mate, but there will be animal killing. There just won't be bunny rabbit killing. But boars, wolves, etc? They're definitely in.
how do you know?

[Trollcutie]

This so far is the biggest wrench in the idea. Additionally, I think it's the most revealing bit that indicates people were able to go into enemy PvE areas in the first place. So much so that I've been looking for the specific zone maps that displayed where the RvR zones would be ever since Friday. Sadly, the gallery I distinctly remember giving the clearest view of the zones was the WAR-RVR one. Which doesn't work anymore.

So, to give people some idea of the whole scheme, courtesy of MS Paint, here are the rough RvR areas for a few zones;

RED = RvR area.

Barak Varr (http://a666.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/66/l_b324a3f63d70ddd8696c11cb106822d9.jpg)
Marshes of Madness (http://a436.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/50/l_004a88c92540c6e62ded84d8906631db.jpg)
Blackfire Pass (http://a132.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/29/l_1c91331078b0c0728b59b1718c63adbb.jpg)
Badlands (http://a641.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/45/l_919a5595bd11e54ec2196ec145ae3bc0.jpg)It's obvious that for any RvR to take place in the Dwarf/Orc Tier 2, or Tier 3, then passage would need to be allowed for both factions through the PvE areas.


I would like to say you are 100% wrong if you look at the map and where the camps are there is no reason unless you wanted to, to cross into enemy pve areas. Notice there are multiple paths leading from each camp and to each adjacent zone. you are also using old maps

[Feigro]

could you better explain why I'm wrong? Saying if I look at the camps and that there's clearly different paths doesn't really clarifiy that well. Those RvR areas seem pretty blatantly put within PvE areas.

Additionally, I'm not using THOSE maps. I'm only drawing on them to show other people. I'm using in game screenshots of the zones taken at conventions, which as I mentioned, I don't have access to.

At the moment, the best source I can actually show you requires pausing, and squinting to notice the RvR areas layed out in this podcast (http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/media/podcast/files/Tir-RvR_explaination_final.html) (They're outlined on the small maps in red).

[Rowhin]

how do you know?

I figured you'd only be convinced by visual footage, and it took some time to find a vid:

Here you have it: PvE against wolves!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDB-pRfmg5Y

At the end, that Bright Wizard most certainly fights a wolf.

[WarMachine]

I would like to say you are 100% wrong if you look at the map and where the camps are there is no reason unless you wanted to, to cross into enemy pve areas. Notice there are multiple paths leading from each camp and to each adjacent zone. you are also using old maps
Your looking at the maps wrong, look where the opposing force comes from.

All he did was take Mythics already red shaded area, and highlight it in brighter red.

[Trollcutie]

could you better explain why I'm wrong? Saying if I look at the camps and that there's clearly different paths doesn't really clarifiy that well. Those RvR areas seem pretty blatantly put within PvE areas.

Additionally, I'm not using THOSE maps. I'm only drawing on them to show other people. I'm using in game screenshots of the zones taken at conventions, which as I mentioned, I don't have access to.

At the moment, the best source I can actually show you requires pausing, and squinting to notice the RvR areas layed out in this podcast (http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/media/podcast/files/Tir-RvR_explaination_final.html) (They're outlined on the small maps in red).

easy if you use a correct version of the map and not a old outdated version you would see the errors of your way. See that map just says dwarf camp or orc camp it doesn't say if the camps are used by the players or if they are just camps with random npcs made for the oppistie side to kill and you will never go to.

I figured you'd only be convinced by visual footage, and it took some time to find a vid:

Here you have it: PvE against wolves!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDB-pRfmg5Y

At the end, that Bright Wizard most certainly fights a wolf.

wow a level 3 character fighting a wolf yeah thats defently proof

[Thoden Firehammer]

from what I have seen and heard there is no animal killing what so ever. It is all about WAR and destroying the other side so if you are doing pve you are attacking the other sides npcs not bears. So from what I have heard you will not be people hanging out kiling bears together.



You've completely missed my point, that or you're avoiding it...

[sb220]

Its been stated that there will be mob camps similar to what was in DAoC.

[Rowhin]

wow a level 3 character fighting a wolf yeah thats defently proof

Seeing as my claim was that fighting wolves was in the game as PvE, yeah, it is. The vid shows a character fighting a wolf. The wolf is not controlled by another player. So there is fighting wolves as part of PvE in game. I fail to see the error in my proof.

[pooter26]

Here is the best solution:

PvP servers:
All Players are flagged for pvp all the time and are fair game for anyone in the same tier.

OR

Players can choose to flag themselves; those that do get a 10% experience bonus

Have Normal Servers:
Players choose to flag themselves, if they are they are fair game for anyone is same tier.

OR

Players choose to flag themselves; those that do get a 3% experience bonus.

Quest Servers:
Current rules that apply.

[sb220]

Available at launch, agreed

[VegJed]

Hmm, locked zones makes me think of the old way they handled UW and FoW in Guild Wars. Basically, Europe would have access to them most of the day, US would have them from about 9 pm - 1 am EST (rough estimate, but that's when I would log on to do smite runs), and asian countries had access sporadically. Basically, the US would take over as European numbers (or, if not overall numbers, then the number of good HA guilds) waned, due to that whole sleep thing.

However, in WAR, you aren't competing against seperate time zones, so the only thing that would effect who has control would be realm balance. I know there were threads about ways to enforce server balance, but the fact is, if the ratio of people wanting to play Order/Destruction is 5/3, no amount of server balancing will make the ratio 1:1, the best we could hope for is making all servers have that same ratio. Thus, if there are "locked" zones and there is a 5:3 ratio, it's extremely likely that the side with lower numbers will rarely (if ever) see access to those locked zones, causing more people to roll towards the imba side (so they can do all those quests), hurting balance even more.

[Trollcutie]

Seeing as my claim was that fighting wolves was in the game as PvE, yeah, it is. The vid shows a character fighting a wolf. The wolf is not controlled by another player. So there is fighting wolves as part of PvE in game. I fail to see the error in my proof.
I didn't say there was an error

but the question is will orcs and dwarves be killing wolves side by side as others beleive there will be

[Trollcutie]

Here is the best solution:

PvP servers:
All Players are flagged for pvp all the time and are fair game for anyone in the same tier.

OR

Players can choose to flag themselves; those that do get a 10% experience bonus

Have Normal Servers:
Players choose to flag themselves, if they are they are fair game for anyone is same tier.

OR

Players choose to flag themselves; those that do get a 3% experience bonus.

Quest Servers:
Current rules that apply.
i think the best solution is for people to stop speculating since they have no idea what is going to be in game when it is launched since there is no way of knowing what it will be like.

[Gorthor]

i think the best solution is for people to stop speculating since they have no idea what is going to be in game when it is launched since there is no way of knowing what it will be like.
Haha, sure thing mr "we won't be fighting animals", let's just close down the forums.

And he wasn't speculating, he was suggesting.

[jor8888]

I say come out with 3 diff servers. PVE, PVP,FFA.

[JonnyWarhawk]

I say just make it the way it SHOULD be. PvE zones should make whoever's side that zone belongs to unflagged and if an enemy comes in he is free to be attacked and if you attack him you get flagged. That way, enemies coming into enemy territory wont just run around and make the game carebear.

[WarMachine]

I say come out with 3 diff servers. PVE, PVP,FFA.
You have to remember that for each server option mythic makes, they have to have an RP counter part. that now makes 6 servers, and 2 each, with 3 different rule sets.

Mythic has already stated "no" for alternet servers. Even having alternet servers doesn't fix cross faction PvE, as that would require a revamp off all zones, T1 to T3.

[Trollcutie]

Haha, sure thing mr "we won't be fighting animals", let's just close down the forums.

And he wasn't speculating, he was suggesting.


i'm not a mr

[ManiaCCC]

Not a bad idea..but i just dont like it. Its not fun when people are forced to do something to doing something else.. fighting for pve? Maybe in another game.. but please not in WAR..

Anyway, i still dont understand what is wrong with flaging in this game. You can be ganged, you will be in risk when you enter rvr area, you can fight all the day, you can not even touch PvE..probably you can enter to enemy terrirotry but you cant attack here until you will be attacked..but whats wrong? At least you cant grief..what is a good thing..And another thing..You wont be in risk all the time - but..its that wrong? I just dont want to be in risk if i want just relax, make some quests or improve my crafting skill etc.

[shotgunbadger]

i'm not a mr

Not an English Major too.

[Trollcutie]

Not an English Major too.
no its my second language I was born in Japan moved to the states when i was 16. So yes I am a japanesse girl who loves warhammer

[Gretha]

right, i haven't heard about some PvE servers , questing in your enemy zones or flags.
.
What I know from the potcasts is that
each relm has its "PvE zone" and a RvR zone in between.
If you don't leve the PvE zone, your safe.
if you side is about to loose in the RvR area you won't contribute to the next tier.
everything more is speculation (and i doubt that there will be more)


In Tier 4 each relm has its PvE zone a verry big RvR Zone in between.
if one side "wins" the battlefront moves one field closer to the other Capitol.
PvE, scenarios etc. here will be locked down, and open up there.

I assume;
You still can't enter the enemys PvE Zone here
and in addition you have no longer a safe PvE Zone (respawn zone) ,because its enemy teretorry now.
It's to drive you back to the Zone where the frontline is right now.



So I would like to know:
is there any reason (I mean a interview and not a "i think its logic" comment)
to assume that you could even get into the enemy Hinterlands or is the whole
discussion about solving a problem that most likely doesn't even exists?

[Thoden Firehammer]

no its my second language I was born in Japan moved to the states when i was 16. So yes I am a japanesse girl who loves warhammer


Well that's nice and all, but that speculation comment shot you down.

[sb220]

So I would like to know:
is there any reason (I mean a interview and not a "i think its logic" comment)
to assume that you could even get into the enemy Hinterlands or is the whole
discussion about solving a problem that most likely doesn't even exists?


Originally Posted by Petit-Trot http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/images/WHA/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?p=522722#post522722)
Can you answer this once and for all? Can players enter the enemy's PVE area?

Currently, yes - there is, in some cases, content for players to do in their enemies territory as well.
__________________
James Nichols
Community Coordinator
Warhammer: Age of Reckoning

[Feigro]

Gretha, that's inaccurate.

You're saying all Tiers are designed like this;

OOOOOO
OOOOOO Dwarf PvE
OOOOOO
[][][][][] Dwarf RvR
[][][][][] Greenskin RvR
OOOOOO
OOOOOO Greenskin PvE
OOOOOO

When in fact there are some like this;

OOOOOO
[][][][][] Dwarf RvR
OOOOOO
OOOOOO
OOOOOO
OOOOOO
[][][][][] Orc RvR
OOOOOO

[Trollcutie]

Well that's nice and all, but that speculation comment shot you down.
really how so?

[Thoden Firehammer]

really how so?


Because of the mere fact that this entier forums is about speculating and discussing info about this game, we never know everything completly, so everything can be called speculation, so in actuality you just told us not to discuss anything on these forums.

Gretha, that's inaccurate.

You're saying all Tiers are designed like this;

OOOOOO
OOOOOO Dwarf PvE
OOOOOO
[][][][][] Dwarf RvR
[][][][][] Greenskin RvR
OOOOOO
OOOOOO Greenskin PvE
OOOOOO

When in fact there are some like this;

OOOOOO
[][][][][] Dwarf RvR
OOOOOO
OOOOOO
OOOOOO
OOOOOO
[][][][][] Orc RvR
OOOOOO

I thought it was more like this

OOOOOO Dwarf PVE

OOOOOO Greenskin PVE

XXXXXXX Dwarf RVR

XXXXXXX Greenskin RVR

OOOOOO
OOOOOO
OOOOOO
XXXXXXX
----------- Tier one
XXXXXXX
OOOOOO
OOOOOO
OOOOOO

[Gretha]

In the maps I have seen so far the RvR zone gets bigger with each tier but the conection to the enemys Map was always via the RvR Zone.

Would you be such kind and tell me the maps where it's different? :-)

[Roche7]

I thought Mythic said as you level there gets more and more area for RvR and less PvE, why would they make a pvp server and a pve server when the game is based on pvp, and not ganking?

Just sounds to me like people want to be able to gang on players at low level while being near a safe place to run....

[Thoden Firehammer]

In the maps I have seen so far the RvR zone gets bigger with each tier but the conection to the enemys Map was always via the RvR Zone.

Would you be such kind and tell me the maps where it's different? :-)

I'm not sure but I remember seeing in the podcast that there are areas where PVE cuts off some of the RvR areas, so you have to go through them, but I might be wrong, i'll got wathc the podcast again

[WarMachine]

In the maps I have seen so far the RvR zone gets bigger with each tier but the conection to the enemys Map was always via the RvR Zone.

Would you be such kind and tell me the maps where it's different? :-)
This so far is the biggest wrench in the idea. Additionally, I think it's the most revealing bit that indicates people were able to go into enemy PvE areas in the first place. So much so that I've been looking for the specific zone maps that displayed where the RvR zones would be ever since Friday. Sadly, the gallery I distinctly remember giving the clearest view of the zones was the WAR-RVR one. Which doesn't work anymore.

So, to give people some idea of the whole scheme, courtesy of MS Paint, here are the rough RvR areas for a few zones;

RED = RvR area.

Barak Varr (http://a666.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/66/l_b324a3f63d70ddd8696c11cb106822d9.jpg)
Marshes of Madness (http://a436.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/50/l_004a88c92540c6e62ded84d8906631db.jpg)
Blackfire Pass (http://a132.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/29/l_1c91331078b0c0728b59b1718c63adbb.jpg)
Badlands (http://a641.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/45/l_919a5595bd11e54ec2196ec145ae3bc0.jpg)
It's obvious that for any RvR to take place in the Dwarf/Orc Tier 2, or Tier 3, then passage would need to be allowed for both factions through the PvE areas.
Page two. They are highlighted to better show you the RvR areas.

[Feigro]

In the maps I have seen so far the RvR zone gets bigger with each tier but the conection to the enemys Map was always via the RvR Zone.

Would you be such kind and tell me the maps where it's different? :-)


Barak Varr (http://a678.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/41/l_dcb0f5499c6f4d0e16a346484e483ad5.jpg)
Marshes of Madness (http://a166.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/24/l_3092ca67c9e71539f73512a250c4277d.jpg)
Blackfire Pass (http://a681.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/48/l_c8d9935dda6e2610af9b2459499c8930.jpg)
Badlands (http://a724.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/89/l_2a59e86bff5492dbd61ccd3657054863.jpg)


Those are done be me, partly by memory of ingame screenshots. The information was reaffirmed by over-analyzing this podcast (http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/media/podcast/files/Tir-RvR_explaination_final.html).

I'll openly admit here and now it certainly could have changed. But there are no other maps that indicate where the RvR areas actually are within the zones. So until I'm shown otherwise, I'll continue to believe these are the rough areas where RvR takes place.

[Gretha]

Al right, my fault.
I thought the left one of the two passes between Barak Varr an the Marshes was part of the RvR area as well.

[Thoden Firehammer]

Barak Varr (http://a666.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/66/l_b324a3f63d70ddd8696c11cb106822d9.jpg)
Marshes of Madness (http://a436.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/50/l_004a88c92540c6e62ded84d8906631db.jpg)
Blackfire Pass (http://a132.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/29/l_1c91331078b0c0728b59b1718c63adbb.jpg)
Badlands (http://a641.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/45/l_919a5595bd11e54ec2196ec145ae3bc0.jpg)
Those are done be me, partly by memory of ingame screenshots. The information was reaffirmed by over-analyzing this podcast (http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/media/podcast/files/Tir-RvR_explaination_final.html).

I'll openly admit here and now it certainly could have changed. But there are no other maps that indicate where the RvR areas actually are within the zones. So until I'm shown otherwise, I'll continue to believe these are the rough areas where RvR takes place.


Hmm, check please "prays for RP-PvP Server"

[Trollcutie]

Because of the mere fact that this entier forums is about speculating and discussing info about this game, we never know everything completly, so everything can be called speculation, so in actuality you just told us not to discuss anything on these forums.



no not at all there is enough info out there to disscuss and not speculate.

[Loekii]

[edit for double post ]

[WarMachine]

Those are done be me, partly by memory of ingame screenshots. The information was reaffirmed by over-analyzing this podcast (http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/media/podcast/files/Tir-RvR_explaination_final.html).

funny thing is, I've never seen that one, but he specifically says you can go into opposing PvE areas.

[Loekii]

who said they will quest beside each other?

The devs have stated it in a couple of places, and recently James stated it:

Currently, yes - there is, in some cases, content for players to do in their enemies territory as well.

[Thoden Firehammer]

no not at all there is enough info out there to disscuss and not speculate.


Yeah sure, you keep telling yourself that ;)

1.We have no idea on how they're going to handle the RvR flagging system, or if they might change it.

2. We have no idea on class mechanics

3. We have very little info on specs, spells or any form of character customization via specs

4. We have very little info on how they're going to hand character customization via armor dyes and trophies.

5. We have little info on the mechanics of the living guild system.

6. We don't know how big a difference the R/P/S system will be on balance

I could go on, but i'm getting bored, i'll admit that WAR is giving us alot of info when compared to other games, but they don't go in depth, and as such most, or if not everything is speculation when discussing about it.

There is also the fact that they are able, and have changed their mind on certain aspects of the game, and we don't find out untill way later.

[Loekii]

Hmm, check please "prays for RP-PvP Server"

As do I. Well actually I hope for some PvP and Rp-PvP servers (where there are no PvE areas).

[Thoden Firehammer]

As do I. Well actually I hope for some PvP and Rp-PvP servers (where there are no PvE areas).


That's exactly what im hopeing for now, after seeing the RvR area's size

[Loekii]

funny thing is, I've never seen that one, but he specifically says you can go into opposing PvE areas.

On a tangent, has anyone done a website that transcribes all these videos into text?

It would be a nice reference source.

[Loekii]

That's exactly what im hopeing for now, after seeing the RvR area's size

Well the later tiers are supposed to be mostly RvR, but yeah, I dislike the teir 1 spread.

Now this is just my hardcore opinion, but I really dislike the idea that someone can 'safely' gear up their player, and then go an participate in RvR.

What I expect to see on some servers, or with some players, is that they max themselves out in PvE and then enter RvR -- turning RvR zones into examples of WoW's BGs, where you mainly see X9's, instead of seeing x1 - x9 levels.

[Trollcutie]

Yeah sure, you keep telling yourself that ;)

1.We have no idea on how they're going to handle the RvR flagging system, or if they might change it.

2. We have no idea on class mechanics

3. We have very little info on specs, spells or any form of character customization via specs

4. We have very little info on how they're going to hand character customization via armor dyes and trophies.

5. We have little info on the mechanics of the living guild system.

6. We don't know how big a difference the R/P/S system will be on balance

I could go on, but i'm getting bored, i'll admit that WAR is giving us alot of info when compared to other games, but they don't go in depth, and as such most, or if not everything is speculation when discussing about it.

There is also the fact that they are able, and have changed their mind on certain aspects of the game, and we don't find out untill way later.

actually I know the answer to most of the questions but I am not allowed to answer them :p

[Thoden Firehammer]

actually I know the answer to most of the questions but I am not allowed to answer them :p

Means nothing, due to the fact that the majority of people are not in beta, and as such we can only discuss the information GIVEN to us.

Now it's nice you're in beta, congrats.

[sb220]

Or the fact that half of that stuff supposedly hasnt been implemented yet and the other half is balance which also isnt nearly completed. Know-nothin

[Trollcutie]

Means nothing, due to the fact that the majority of people are not in beta, and as such we can only discuss the information GIVEN to us.

Now it's nice you're in beta, congrats.


This statement answers everything ok now i understand you seem to fill in the blanks. I never said I was in the beta. But you just assumed that I was you put in your own ideas. This explains all your assumptions about the game so far.

[Trollcutie]

Well the later tiers are supposed to be mostly RvR, but yeah, I dislike the teir 1 spread.

Now this is just my hardcore opinion, but I really dislike the idea that someone can 'safely' gear up their player, and then go an participate in RvR.

What I expect to see on some servers, or with some players, is that they max themselves out in PvE and then enter RvR -- turning RvR zones into examples of WoW's BGs, where you mainly see X9's, instead of seeing x1 - x9 levels.


why? what differnce does it make if some one got their gear in pvp or pve?

[Thoden Firehammer]

This statement answers everything ok now i understand you seem to fill in the blanks. I never said I was in the beta. But you just assumed that I was you put in your own ideas. This explains all your assumptions about the game so far.


Please we word your post, i'm having a tough time understanding it....

I'll admit I assumed you were in beta by what you said, because I just told you what WE as a community know by the information that Mythic has given us, thus I gave facts, so that there was not an assumption...

That's what i'm having a hard time understanding from your posts...

I'm going to place money on that you wanted your little emotional jab me because you're having a bad day....again this is an asumption, however we're all only human, especily you. :cool:

[Trollcutie]

Please we word your post, i'm having a tough time understanding it....

I'll admit I assumed you were in beta by what you said, because I just told you what WE as a community know by the information that Mythic has given us, thus I gave facts, so that there was not an assumption...

That's what i'm having a hard time understanding from your posts...

I'm going to place money on that you wanted your little emotional jab me because you're having a bad day....again this is an asumption, however we're all only human, especily you. :cool:
I think you are taking things way to personal this is just a forum about a game that has not been released.

[Thoden Firehammer]

I think you are taking things way to personal this is just a forum about a game that has not been released.


Oh no, I never take anything the wrong way, I just take it for what it is.

And you're absolutly right, this is a forum about a game, but I see no reason as to why youa ccuse me of assumming when I already showed you it was indeed fact, that or you have some secret knowledge by sneaking in Mythic HQ and you're not telling us...

[WarMachine]

why? what differnce does it make if some one got their gear in pvp or pve?
Although I really like Loekii's stance on PvP, he is only slightly right in his veiws on gearing up.

PvP gear will be directed as stats and abilities for PvP, PvE gear ill be directed at stats and abilities that will aid in PvE (not as helpful for thoughs in PvP), and Bounty Hunter Gear is a cross of PvE and PvP gear (like a jack of all trades, and a master of none).

His worries are that someone will gear up in the safty of PvE, then jump into PvP with top gear. But fortunetly it doesn't work that way, as the person gearing in PvE is gearing up in PvE gear. And aswell, the game will not be gear depended. Thats current info, still subject to change.

[Trollcutie]

Although I really like Loekii's stance on PvP, he is only slightly right in his veiws on gearing up.

PvP gear will be directed as stats and abilities for PvP, PvE gear ill be directed at stats and abilities that will aid in PvE (not as helpful for thoughs in PvP), and Bounty Hunter Gear is a cross of PvE and PvP gear (like a jack of all trades, and a master of none).

His worries are that someone will gear up in the safty of PvE, then jump into PvP with top gear. But fortunetly it doesn't work that way, as the person gearing in PvE is gearing up in PvE gear. And aswell, the game will not be gear depended. Thats current info, still subject to change.


Ok I see he is affraid of what happend in WoW. Well this could easily be fixed ie make the PVP gear way better then PVE and make it so there is no nead for two diffrent sets. basicly make the stats need for effective PVE the same stats that are needed for PVP therefore some one who levels up to 40 in PVE and has the best gera he can get from PVE will still have worse gear then those in PVP

[Ranti]

actually I know the answer to most of the questions but I am not allowed to answer them :p

If that is the case then GTFO, I don't want to see anything before mythic is ready to show it to me, otherwise I may be disappointed like I have been lately

If you are in beta, get out of these forums, you are under NDA, and I like you don't get me wrong, but you just need to refrain from posting all together imho

If you aren't under NDA, don't lie about being in beta

[Misanthrope Prime]

This statement answers everything ok now i understand you seem to fill in the blanks. I never said I was in the beta. But you just assumed that I was you put in your own ideas. This explains all your assumptions about the game so far.
I was under the impression that you had to be 18 to participate in the beta, though you said you were 16. The plot thickens.

[sb220]

Shes not in beta. She made the statement so that anyone reading would come to no other conclusion. So she could say people jumped to conclusions. :p

[Thoden Firehammer]

Shes not in beta. She made the statement so that anyone reading would come to no other conclusion. So she could say people jumped to conclusions. :p


So you saw through it as well? :cool:

[Trollcutie]

I was under the impression that you had to be 18 to participate in the beta, though you said you were 16. The plot thickens.


man what is wrong with people here and reading. I said I moved to america WHEN I was 16.

as to my other statement again you assumed that I said I was in.

lrn2read

[Thoden Firehammer]

man what is wrong with people here and reading. I said I moved to america WHEN I was 16.

as to my other statement again you assumed that I said I was in.

lrn2read


You never said when you exactly moved, you only said at what age you moved at, so it left him with enough room to assume what he wanted. After all you did imply that was your current age by not giving any information to say the contrary.

[Trollcutie]

You never said when you exactly moved, you only said at what age you moved at, so it left him with enough room to assume what he wanted. After all you did imply that was your current age, by not giving any information to say the contrary.

you know what they say about making assumptions.

I in no way implied it was my current age. If I said I gradutaed high school when I was 18 you would assume I just graduated High School? Once again you are derailing a thread good job Thoeden

[Thoden Firehammer]

you know what they say about making assumptions.

I in no way implied it was my current age. If I said I gradutaed high school when I was 18 you would assume I just graduated High School? Once again you are derailing a thread good job Thoeden


OOoo, another "assumption" spite post, how I love them, it's probably because they're so hypocritical, because the fact that we're all human and we have make assumptions based on the fact that we hardly ever have the entire information at hand.

Also, I can't find that post you made but even if you did, who knows you could have graduated early, or if my memeory serves me well, asia has a different school systems than that of the States, so who knows you could have been 2 grades ahead when you transfered or you could have gifted.

Also, I didn't derail this thread, you did by replying.

[Zacks]

There will only be "safe zones" in three of tiers, and the third tiers' will be to small to worry about. Don't worry about it, once everyone hits that fourth tier, it will be an all out FFA.

[Trollcutie]

OOoo, another "assumption" spite post, how I love them, it's probably because they're so hypocritical, because the fact that we're all human and we have make assumptions based on the fact that we hardly ever have the entire information at hand.

Also, I can't find that post you made but even if you did, who knows you could have graduated early, or if my memeory serves me well,.
page 4


no they are not hypocritical and people don't make assumptions because they are human

[Thoden Firehammer]

page 4


no they are not hypocritical and people don't make assumptions because they are human


Well, here's page 4 no its my second language I was born in Japan moved to the states when i was 16. So yes I am a japanesse girl who loves warhammer

Hmm... interesting...


Also, I want you to do an experiment, admitedly it will be skewed because you mentaly know you're doing it, but I want you to go for a week and catch yourself and see howmany times you assume things. If you come back to me at the end of that week and tell me you assumed nothing that entire week, than i'll now that either you're a damn'd liar, or you actualy tried not to assume anything because you just wanted to prove me wrong, thus ruining our little experiment all together.

The human psyche is quite interesting, I suggest you look in on it.

[Rabbit Slayer]

I would like to suggest this thread gets locked I think it is sufficiently off topic

[ManiaCCC]

Thoden Firehammer and Trollcutie, what yours converasation have with this thread? .. PM is a right way ;)

[Thoden Firehammer]

Thoden Firehammer and Trollcutie, what yours converasation have with this thread? .. PM is a right way ;)


You know by replying to us without posting anything constructive you've effectivly been doing what we have, well time to bring the whole thread back on track.


My view on t is I just plan out do not want to be in position where I see my enemy walk right past me, I am not one to seek to kill enemy PvE players, nor will I ever see myself questing in PvE that much, however the fact is that I have to cross enemy PvE terrirtory to get to the RvR areas

[Throt the Unclean]

I may be jumping to conclusions here, and making the wrong assumption, but i get the feeling Trollcutie's name is entirely appropriate...

[Thoden Firehammer]

I may be jumping to conclusions here, and making the wrong assumption, but i get the feeling Trollcutie's name is entirely appropriate...
Yes, and I love irony.

Now lets get this thing back on track.

We all know the options here.

1. Locked PVE zones.

2. A flagging system that allows players in the PvE zones to flag themselves to PvP combat if they wish

3. The same flagging system however enemy players who walk into your PvE area, are now automaticly flagged

4. Having PvP, and Rp- PvP server where there are no safe PvE zones

5. Doing nothing about it, have no flagging system, have no locked zones, just unchanged.

Personaly 1,3,4 are appealing to me

[ManiaCCC]

I just think flagging in PvE zones is just usless.. why someone would come fight into zone where enemies have NPC guards, where mobs can be agroed into the fight and annoy everyone.. and practicaly no objective here for them? There will be LOT of place for fighting .. I think Mythic is heading in right direction.

[Thoden Firehammer]

I just think flagging in PvE zones is just usless.. why someone would come fight into zone where enemies have NPC guards, where mobs can be agroed into the fight and annoy everyone.. and practicaly no objective here for them? There will be LOT of place for fighting .. I think Mythic is heading in right direction.


Actualy i've seen the size of the supposed RvR areas, again this is an assumpition because i'm not quite sure if they changed it, or what but they appear to be quite small, in every tier mind you...

I only wish we had updated material.

[Browncoat-WHA]

You know by replying to us without posting anything constructive you've effectivly been doing what we have, well time to bring the whole thread back on track.


You shouldn't have been doing it in the first place.

Folks, just report the posts. Don't respond to them. Look how many pages and posts were wasted with a response to an antagonistic poster. I've seen this a bit lately - next time it's infraction-flavored Pez for all. It tastes bad. You don't want it.

I thought I'd interject before this thread got back on track.

[Thoden Firehammer]

You shouldn't have been doing it in the first place.

Folks, just report the posts. Don't respond to them. Look how many pages and posts were wasted with a response to an antagonistic poster. I've seen this a bit lately - next time it's infraction-flavored Pez for all. It tastes bad. You don't want it.

I thought I'd interject before this thread got back on track.


:( you make me cry Browncoat, and I was the one who brought the thread on track, I knew you mods have some secret plan agains't Thoden! :P

[mongoose]

I hope you will forgive me Montbrun but Im going to semi hijack your thread briefly because of some of the things posted in this thread that related to the Announcements thread (that thread is out of control though so......)

@Feigro (and others) the podcast you posted was basically the one that started the misrepresentation of information and the reason why MANY of us thought there would be no crossing over into enemy PvE zones. Here is a transcription of the important part:

"Every zone has a mix of PvE <PvE area is briefly highlighted> and RvR conflict <RvR area is highlighted>. Players from enemy realms will not be able to engage you as long as you do not cross over into the RvR areas <shows a Dwarf and Orc mini dancing on opposing sides of the RvR line>. If you do however youre fair game.

So if you stay out of the RvR areas you will be able to travel all the way to your capital city."

This part of the podcast was the primary root of the controversy. The Dwarf mini was SHOWN to supposedly not be able to cross the invisible RvR boundary line into Orc territory but the Orc could choose to cross into the RvR area.


It's obvious that for any RvR to take place in the Dwarf/Orc Tier 2, or Tier 3, then passage would need to be allowed for both factions through the PvE areas.
funny thing is, I've never seen that one, but he specifically says you can go into opposing PvE areas.

Not quite so fast there. The exact wording is (and I quote), ".....or travel to your enemies zone and join the conflict there."

They never said you would be traveling through your enemies PvE zone to get there, only that you would be "traveling to" your enemies zone. This could have meant any number of things and after JUST being exposed to the above boundary line demonstration, gave me (and others) the distinct impression that there would be some sort of zoning process taking place to get to that area, not actually moving through the PvE area to get there.

I also agree with you that there were a lot of hints and the info was out there.....indirectly but thats assuming that everyone had; a) seen all of them, b) and/or been in attendance at a conference, c) or played in beta.

So if someone (like myself) missed a few of those 'key' videos (I never saw that Quest Q&A video), had NEVER been to a conference, was not in the Beta and was initially exposed to the aforementioned podcast as their primary source of info on how things would work, dont you think the conclusion many of us came to was logical? (although sadly misguided :?)

Now Im not trying to say that the conclusions many of us arrived at were correct (because clearly they were not) but given the often times misleading information and the fact that most of us have not seen ALL the info out there, I think that it was the responsibility of Mythic to state very clearly that you could and would be traveling through enemy PvE zones.

I congradulate those of you who did manage to "read between the lines" though but I would recommend you not belittling those of us who didnt ;)

But I digress....... :rolleyes:


To contribute though I personally dont really like the idea of locking out content. What I would propose however is if you dont control that zone yet and you wish to complete that PQ that you simply get more exp or a better reward out of it because you managed to complete it under much more difficult circumstances. (this is also based on the idea of being auto flagged). Simple. Greater risk = greater reward.

Hell you could even award a title for accomplishing a PQ in enemy territory, say "trespasser" for the 1st one and if you do 4 PQs this way you get the title, "invader" :cool:

[phluke]

I think having "locked" zones is a step in the wrong direction. I think the flagging system works fine. Having Locked zones discourages exploration which is a big part of an mmo for me.

[Feigro]

Mongoose... I'm not sure you even read any of my posts in this particular topic. None of them have to do with the content discussed in that podcast.

If you'll see my third (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showpost.php?p=524939&postcount=32) post, I'm presenting information. That information is Roughly where the RvR areas are indicated in the zones of; Barak Varr, Marshes of Madness, Blackfire Pass, and Badlands.

The podcast is merely a substitute source for that information because in that exact podcast they show you all of the zone maps from tier 1 to tier 4, excluding the capitals and the neutral zones. Where, despite the tiny shot of the maps, you're clearly able to see the red outline for the RvR areas.

My statements in this thread have nothing to do with the announcement thread. It has to do with why you can't lock the PvE areas. Because in the above four zones, which would be the Dwarf/Orc Tier 2 and 3, passage through PvE areas is required to reach the RvR areas. Thus his plan wouldn't Work, because Dwarfs would be stuck in Barak Varr, while Orcs are stuck in the Marshes, and no one can RvR because the other zone is locked.

So I have no idea why you thought I was bringing up the other debate of whether or not people did or didn't notice this kind of stuff. I wasn't. I was using that podcast as a substitute source to back information because I knew the podcast contained it. What the podcast was actually discussing is entirely irrelevent. I also believe you quoted me out of context, that quote was talking about the maps where I highlighted the RvR areas. Not the podcast.

[mongoose]

So I have no idea why you thought I was bringing up the other debate of whether or not people did or didn't notice this kind of stuff. I wasn't. I was using that podcast as a substitute source to back information because I knew the podcast contained it. What the podcast was actually discussing is entirely irrelevent. I also believe you quoted me out of context, that quote was talking about the maps where I highlighted the RvR areas. Not the podcast.

You missed this part: I hope you will forgive me Montbrun but Im going to semi hijack your thread briefly because of some of the things posted in this thread that related to the Announcements thread (that thread is out of control though so......)

So I decided to post this here (and not in the announcements thread) because:

a) The OP specifically mentioned how he was also mistaken
b) The announcements thread is out of control
c) Those who posted rebuttals to my argument there are also posting/reading this thread
d) You happened to post the very podcast that started the misinformation and then others commented on it.

I know you didnt have this in mind when you posted that but I did however feel it was relevant to the discussion, especially in light of the OPs admission. There was good reason why many of us thought the way we did and I just wanted the OP to know he was one of the many and not the few. ;)

[Feigro]

Also, while admittedly it's certaily implied enemy players can't cross into the PvE zones... arguably, "engage" can be interpreted in a few different ways, barring the graphic. So technically that podcast is still true;

Enemy players won't be able to engage you in PvE areas. That doesn't mean they can't travel travel there.

[Pangscar]

PvE zones are there so people who don't want to PvP 24/7 can do other things while still helping the "war effort". Everything Mythic has told us so far sounds fine on how it should work to me. No need for some oddball "locking zones" system. Besides the way I assumed it works is that while the enemy can and will come to your PvE zones to do a quest, there wont be any quests for him to get there and even though there will be animals in the game the zones will comprise of a lot of NPCs(which would be friendly to you if your in an enemy PvE) so its stupid to think you'll have enemy's "farming" in your PvE zone.

If you want to PvP all the time then do so, if you don't then theres PvE zones. Whats so bad about that? If its not broke don't fix it.

[mongoose]

Also, while admittedly it's certaily implied enemy players can't cross into the PvE zones... arguably, "engage" can be interpreted in a few different ways, barring the graphic. So technically that podcast is still true;

Enemy players won't be able to engage you in PvE areas. That doesn't mean they can't travel travel there.

Im not disagreeing with you. Knowing what I know now I can look at the information in a completely different way and see it in a different light. My goal was to show that those of us who believed differently had a legitimate reason for doing so.

The mere fact that the podcast has very suspect, ambiguous and vague statements shows they didnt choose their wording as carefully as they could or should have (similar to how many didnt get the Chariot analogy in Septembers podcast) and really should have made this point crystal clear a long time ago because obviously a lot of people arent too happy with this new but apparently very old feature.

[Loekii]

My goal was to show that those of us who believed differently had a legitimate reason for doing so.


I don't think anyone is disputing the rationale of why you made the incorrect assumption. It makes sense. However, that doesn't mean you are not responsible for the error -- which is what the OP had done in his post. He is acknowledging that he made a mistake, instead of insisting that Mythic was to blame. That is something I respect about his OP.

[Loekii]

We all know the options here.

1. Locked PVE zones.

2. A flagging system that allows players in the PvE zones to flag themselves to PvP combat if they wish

3. The same flagging system however enemy players who walk into your PvE area, are now automaticly flagged

4. Having PvP, and Rp- PvP server where there are no safe PvE zones

5. Doing nothing about it, have no flagging system, have no locked zones, just unchanged.

Personaly 1,3,4 are appealing to me

I like 3 & 4.

[WarMachine]

Not quite so fast there. The exact wording is (and I quote), ".....or travel to your enemies zone and join the conflict there."

They never said you would be traveling through your enemies PvE zone to get there, only that you would be "traveling to" your enemies zone. This could have meant any number of things and after JUST being exposed to the above boundary line demonstration, gave me (and others) the distinct impression that there would be some sort of zoning process taking place to get to that area, not actually moving through the PvE area to get there.

".....or travel to your enemies starting zone and join the conflict there."
Is the exact qoute.
I've hear that said else where as well, just don't remember where. But hearing that qoute and seeing the map of Barak Varr (http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/gameInfo/zoneOverviews/BarakVarr/images/BarakVarr_720.jpg) Led me to a complete assumtion that there would be Cross faction PvE.

I guess it all boils down to how you interpet the phase.

@Thoden

I like 3 and 4. 4 is a not likely as Mythic said no special servers at launch and non planned soon after.