Big Nerd, Pervert, or Both?

[Lehosh]

Since we have a few visuals of the Witch Elves (which we didn't have the last time this topic was brought up) I thought we might return to the topic of Witch Elf Lore vs. Functionality/T-Rating. Specifically, how important is it to have a nearly nude witch elf?

I'm a hardcore Dark Elf fan and I was expecting chainmail bikinis and such. My other friends who are into Warhammer were sort of disappointed when the concept art of the witch elves came out and they were wearing so much clothing (with the possible exception of that highest tier outfit). My friends who weren't into Warhammer just assumed we were perverted and told us to watch some pr0n if we wanted to see something naked, but the Warhammer friends were adamant that it had (almost) nothing to do with seeing naked chicks and everything to do with the immersive Warhammer atmosphere.

So we explained to the non-Warhammer friends about the cult of Khaine, about the debauched religious nature of their non-clothing, and about their crazy bloodlust and such. After much ado about the logistics of being naked in the Land of Chill, or running around with no support for D-cup boobs, and no armor in close combat, it all boiled down to the need for immersiveness. How important is it that a witch elf be a more crazy, skimpy, bloodied (and perhaps not T-Rated) character? Does it detract from the icon that she is so modest and apparently not crazed?

[Lucrece]

Since we have a few visuals of the Witch Elves (which we didn't have the last time this topic was brought up) I thought we might return to the topic of Witch Elf Lore vs. Functionality/T-Rating. Specifically, how important is it to have a nearly nude witch elf?

I'm a hardcore Dark Elf fan and I was expecting chainmail bikinis and such. My other friends who are into Warhammer were sort of disappointed when the concept art of the witch elves came out and they were wearing so much clothing (with the possible exception of that highest tier outfit). My friends who weren't into Warhammer just assumed we were perverted and told us to watch some pr0n if we wanted to see something naked, but the Warhammer friends were adamant that it had (almost) nothing to do with seeing naked chicks and everything to do with the immersive Warhammer atmosphere.

So we explained to the non-Warhammer friends about the cult of Khaine, about the debauched religious nature of their non-clothing, and about their crazy bloodlust and such. After much ado about the logistics of being naked in the Land of Chill, or running around with no support for D-cup boobs, and no armor in close combat, it all boiled down to the need for immersiveness. How important is it that a witch elf be a more crazy, skimpy, bloodied (and perhaps not T-Rated) character? Does it detract from the icon that she is so modest and apparently not crazed?

The concept art is fine. Morathi's figurine isn't that much naked, for example. I also get the feeling that the objections to a witch elf being a tad more covered than some of the art shown would be different if it were a male figure in question. There are plenty of fan art sites for witch elves that might suit your needs for "iconicness."

The only place where Mythic failed making them look truly intimidating was in the trailer.

[asid_reign]

The more naked they are the better I say. But that has nothing to do with lore OR the desire to see naked flesh running around. Honestly, I really don't care about some pixilated boobies. What I -do- care about is seeing as many WoW fanboys heading toward the Chaos side as possible. That meens more cannon fodder for me, and less asshats to deal with on the Order side. ;)

Just a thought.

[Chielz0r]

I want a T&A class on Order to compensate now!
*shudders at the thought of attracting all the horny kids who have just hit puberty*

(I personally don't view witchelves as T&A class but I know people who aren't into the lore will)

[Boulvae]

I'll be on the Greenskins side doing some good scrapping away from all those gits.

Sides don't forget empire is the 'good" guys to a stand point view from a lore virgin new blood, AND you guys also have elves so you'll get your fair share of doom.

[pooter26]

You, by your definition are just a big nerd lol which is a good thing, but come release most Witch Elves will be perverts and rogue lovers all of which are nerds on the inside ;).

[Loekii]

\ How important is it that a witch elf be a more crazy, skimpy, bloodied (and perhaps not T-Rated) character? Does it detract from the icon that she is so modest and apparently not crazed?

Are they not already bending the lore with the class, and worshiping Tzeentch?

In my opinion, there is no need for naked elf women.

I would rather see them go with the non-naked aspects of the model.

[Gemini]

Are they not already bending the lore with the class, and worshiping Tzeentch?

In my opinion, there is no need for naked elf women.

I would rather see them go with the non-naked aspects of the model.

I don't see how having the class or having Tzeentch as the Chaos god is in any way bending the lore. However, for the topic: I'm sure some armor will be skimpier than others, but having it not quite as skimpy allows for much more obvious variation between the diffrent pieces of armo. Dunno if that's why they aren't as scantily clad as other things sometimes depict them as, but it's something to consider.

[Fr0]

Big Pervert. Next! Oh, there's more?


Since we have a few visuals of the Witch Elves (which we didn't have the last time this topic was brought up) I thought we might return to the topic of Witch Elf Lore vs. Functionality/T-Rating. Specifically, how important is it to have a nearly nude witch elf?
Nearly =/= nude.

After much ado about the logistics of being naked in the Land of Chill, or running around with no support for D-cup boobs, and no armor in close combat, it all boiled down to the need for immersiveness. How important is it that a witch elf be a more crazy, skimpy, bloodied (and perhaps not T-Rated) character? Does it detract from the icon that she is so modest and apparently not crazed?
What, you don't like boobs?

Fantasy game.

[Dracallo]

its a video game. does it matter either way?

[Lehosh]

its a video game. does it matter either way?

Profound.

You realize, of course, that this statement dismisses any and all discussion about anything WAR related...

[Dracallo]

Profound.

You realize, of course, that this statement dismisses any and all discussion about anything WAR related...

Ah this is true... Speculation on just about anything is just that until we know more.

[Exemplari]

I couldn't care less about how 'skimpy' the Witch Elf's armour is, perverts and kiddies will still flock to the class in enormous numbers. That just means more targets for me. At the end of the day all that matters is that it's a dark elf, and that it needs to be stabbed in the face. :grin:

Seriously though, the point is rather mute since WAR's creators are aiming for a T rating...

[Dracallo]

I couldn't care less about how 'skimpy' the Witch Elf's armour is, perverts and kiddies will still flock to the class in enormous numbers. That just means more targets for me. At the end of the day all that matters is that it's a dark elf, and that it needs to be stabbed in the face. :grin:

I think thats why the Witch Elf is so hyped. A good number of MMO male players probably cant get a woman with a hourglass figure (no every guy, and no not YOU reading this) so theyre like 'OMGZ IMA PLAY THIS CLASS AND WATCH HER SEXY BODY MOVEMENTS!"

Every other guy who plays a female toon will atleast play a WE as a main or an alt.

They will be Overplayed because right now I feel they are over hyped. Every discussion I have seen on both elves side is focused on the WE. Even when they talk about the BG they mention the witch elf somehow. Not to mention that of the High Elves. I have heard very little about the swordmaster or archmage.

Its a shame. I hope they lay off the WE hype when they reveil some of the other elf classes.

Of the 5 people in my clan who plan to play this game, 3 of them are rolling WE, one BG and one Orc Choppa.

[Selandri]

Am I the only one who doesn't have this image of sex starved crazies superimposed on the MMO gamer thing? A lot of the folks I play MMOs with are in committed relationships or, even... I know it's shocking, married with children.

While I know there's a lot of jokes about marriage ending your sex life, I somehow doubt they're getting less than I am. ( I somehow doubt iguanas get less than I do but that's another point entirely. ) Yes, there were people who played Night Elves or female Humans because they were pretty. Not sexy, pretty. Some folks are vain, some are aesthetically inclined, some like watching boobs.

But it's the internet. If they want porn, it's not like it's difficult. I don't get this whole "If it has boobs and buttocks ( which, btw, even some of the men have ) I must play it because I am a sex deprived nerd." Some of us just love the lore, the miniatures, the feeling ( Not that kind of feeling. The models are EXTREMELY spikey. ) of the Witch Elf. While I am sure there will be people who look and say 'Oo, hot naked elf chick', and play it for maybe five minutes, beyond that I don't see it as any more slanted towards young men than any other class.

Maybe I'm getting old and out of touch with the younger generation ( I turn 26 in a month! ) but I've been gaming a long time now and not honestly ever found myself sexually aroused by a computer game character ( Even though my brother bought me a mousepad with Lara Croft on it and made several obscene jokes. They'd have made more sense if I had ever played Tomb Raider. ) and do not believe that, from what I have seen, I am going to be too busy salivating over the breasts and buttocks of my in game avatar to appreciate gutting whoever thinks all Witch Elves are going to be idiot children with one hand on the keyboard.

[WarMachine]

I mean really, can we drop the whole Witch Elves will be played by perves act? Sorry your favored class didn't get picked to be the DE DPS, but its time to move on and get over it. Its a fantasy mmo based off of the WHF TT game, and Witch elves are iconic, and mythic has transfered their mini into a 3d model. Most all TT players that I know have Witch elves in their army, does that mean all DE players are perves? No, nore will it mean the Witch Elves will be played by perves.

They put in a sexy T&A class because alot of woman like to identify with a sexy and deadly class. The first thing my wife told me when she seen the class was, "I know what I'm playing".

Finally, why do you really care if there is a perv or big nerd behind that character, you will always have them ingame, no matter what classes are in, and it shouldn't matter who plays the character as long as they know how to play.

[Lucrece]

I mean really, can we drop the whole Witch Elves will be played by perves act? Sorry your favored class didn't get picked to be the DE DPS, but its time to move on and get over it. Its a fantasy mmo based off of the WHF TT game, and Witch elves are iconic, and mythic has transfered their mini into a 3d model. Most all TT players that I know have Witch elves in their army, does that mean all DE players are perves? No, nore will it mean the Witch Elves will be played by perves.

They put in a sexy T&A class because alot of woman like to identify with a sexy and deadly class. The first thing my wife told me when she seen the class was, "I know what I'm playing".

Finally, why do you really care if there is a perv or big nerd behind that character, you will always have them ingame, no matter what classes are in, and it shouldn't matter who plays the character as long as they know how to play.

Not to mention that there are already plenty of nerds and perverts who don't play female characters. In fact, I find it that instead of flocking to the T&A characters, they tend to choose the hulking, beefy classes like the the Chosen out of the prevalent masculinity crisis-driven need to prove themselves "manly" among the idiotic "guys" who constantly play the e-peen game with one another and their tasteless "your mom" jokes.

[Speedy]

Oh goody! Now I don't feel too bad for playing a Witch elf as my main! Sadly, I am one of those guys who play a class because it looks fun, not purely for cosmetics. Honestly, every time someone said "males playing female classes=pervert," it always irritated me a abit.

Anyway, off of my personal rant. I can only imagine how many little kids are going over to the Order side to be them 'pretty' high elves, but my heart sinks when I realize that many of these pubrity-stricken kids will be Chosen, investing the chat like in WoW's Barrens. Goddamn Chuck Norris one-liners!

[Emeraldw99]

I'll play a witch elf. I'll love staring at her T&A, I'll love killing people while they stare at her T&A. I am a man, I like T&A. If playing the class comes with T&A all the better! We are (mainly) men and we like looking at girls in scantily clad clothes.

In all seriousness it's not that big a deal. To answer the op, both. You want the lore, but be honest, you like looking at naked women! But oh well. The decision has been made. I don't mind it. You also can't tell anything by choice of class or race.

[Lucrece]

I'll play a witch elf. I'll love staring at her T&A, I'll love killing people while they stare at her T&A. I am a man, I like T&A. If playing the class comes with T&A all the better! We are (mainly) men and we like looking at girls in scantily clad clothes.

In all seriousness it's not that big a deal. To answer the op, both. You want the lore, but be honest, you like looking at naked women! But oh well. The decision has been made. I don't mind it. You also can't tell anything by choice of class or race.

Correction: Straight man, not every man is about T&A. Although, even a man can be amused by the jiggleness-incarnate that is the witch elf, not to mention the kickass aura they still carry. Women get their femme fatale if they fancy.

No matter who you are, it's hard to resist fashionably deranged mean girls who always get what they want.:p

[Sindal]

Am I the only one who doesn't have this image of sex starved crazies superimposed on the MMO gamer thing? A lot of the folks I play MMOs with are in committed relationships or, even... I know it's shocking, married with children.

While I know there's a lot of jokes about marriage ending your sex life, I somehow doubt they're getting less than I am. ( I somehow doubt iguanas get less than I do but that's another point entirely. ) Yes, there were people who played Night Elves or female Humans because they were pretty. Not sexy, pretty. Some folks are vain, some are aesthetically inclined, some like watching boobs.

But it's the internet. If they want porn, it's not like it's difficult. I don't get this whole "If it has boobs and buttocks ( which, btw, even some of the men have ) I must play it because I am a sex deprived nerd." Some of us just love the lore, the miniatures, the feeling ( Not that kind of feeling. The models are EXTREMELY spikey. ) of the Witch Elf. While I am sure there will be people who look and say 'Oo, hot naked elf chick', and play it for maybe five minutes, beyond that I don't see it as any more slanted towards young men than any other class.

Maybe I'm getting old and out of touch with the younger generation ( I turn 26 in a month! ) but I've been gaming a long time now and not honestly ever found myself sexually aroused by a computer game character ( Even though my brother bought me a mousepad with Lara Croft on it and made several obscene jokes. They'd have made more sense if I had ever played Tomb Raider. ) and do not believe that, from what I have seen, I am going to be too busy salivating over the breasts and buttocks of my in game avatar to appreciate gutting whoever thinks all Witch Elves are going to be idiot children with one hand on the keyboard.

You took the words right out of my mouth. Why this thread is still going on is beyone me. This post ends it.

Checkmate imo

[Relentless]

Quick, someone make some drawings of scantily clad witch hunters or dawi women to attract the horny teens!

[Lehosh]

Maybe I'm getting old and out of touch with the younger generation ( I turn 26 in a month! ) but I've been gaming a long time now and not honestly ever found myself sexually aroused by a computer game character ( Even though my brother bought me a mousepad with Lara Croft on it and made several obscene jokes. They'd have made more sense if I had ever played Tomb Raider. ) and do not believe that, from what I have seen, I am going to be too busy salivating over the breasts and buttocks of my in game avatar to appreciate gutting whoever thinks all Witch Elves are going to be idiot children with one hand on the keyboard.

This paragraph reminded me of a hilarious youtube video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFMAE5mJNOI

I knew some people played Night Elves for the fan service, but I didn't know they took it this far hah.

[Speedy]

This paragraph reminded me of a hilarious youtube video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFMAE5mJNOI

I knew some people played Night Elves for the fan service, but I didn't know they took it this far hah.

Full of win! :D But gives us males a bad rep =/

[Sinfjotle]

This is nothing wrong with eye candy.

Of course there is much better eye candy on the nets and anyone taking it that far for a rather undetailed model when there is Japanese quality images everywhere is just silly!

[Selandri]

This paragraph reminded me of a hilarious youtube video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFMAE5mJNOI

I knew some people played Night Elves for the fan service, but I didn't know they took it this far hah.

I am utterly speechless.

[Xiara]

I'm actually playing a Witch Elf because of the great lore, and RP possibility. I'm not a huge fan of playing a DPS class...but the WE may change that. I've played an Enchanter in EQ1, Inquisitor in EQ2, and Blood Mage in VG. I've dabbled around with DPS classes, but it just wasn't my thing.

Depending on if the Sorceress' are announced and how they play, could sway me to switch classes. Blood Priest also appeals to me, because I'm picturing my Blood Mage from VG in a better game =P

[Zoatibix]

I'm not a nerd, I'm a geek.

Several of the people I know who are interested in WAR want to play WE. They aren't 'speccy nerds', most have partners (and I'm the only one with a 'non-gaming' partner), and none are under the age of 26.

I do like the alluring aspect of Witch Elves. One of the things I love about 40K/WHFB is the tiny little sculptures. I just love any representation like that. Taking stone or metal and making a vision of the human body is something I have always found amazing. So
gettng to see those little sculpture running around is great.

At least Witch Elves aren't wandering around wearing bikini plate mail and claiming it gives them just as much protection as a chosen. One of the things I dislike about 'girly armour' in Fantasy is that we are still giving out armour with exposed midriffs, upper thighs, etc to front line 'tanks'.

for a rogue or caster who a) dodges and doesn't fight fair or b) isn't going to get into melee if they can help it, that's okay. But for a 'slugger' in full plate...gah.

But I love their evil blood sacrificing ways, their berzerker attitude that personifies the Druchi hatred of others, they are just awesome IMO. They are Dark Elves. They rock. Sugar Crash :D

[Tyurion]

Anyway, off of my personal rant. I can only imagine how many little kids are going over to the Order side to be them 'pretty' high elves

Hoi!

After that moment of outrage(shock horror) reckon the main thing is having them crazed not nude. Cos they worship the god of murder bathe in blood to stay young and make the zombies from 28 days later look like pacifists. When i shoot one i want it to die howling with rage not going "oh dear it appears that i am bleeding to death. How very unsatisfactory." And no I am NOT a pervert (dirty minded swines)

[Gorrr]

The more naked they are the better I say. But that has nothing to do with lore OR the desire to see naked flesh running around. Honestly, I really don't care about some pixilated boobies. What I -do- care about is seeing as many WoW fanboys heading toward the Chaos side as possible. That meens more cannon fodder for me, and less asshats to deal with on the Order side. ;)

Just a thought.
A. It's not chaos, we are only going to get half naked zealots >_<
B.You guys got Witch Hunters, knights and warrior priests just on empire ... and i m pretty sure a lot of people will roll witch hunters and knights and quite an amount of people will roll warrior priest to be a kind of a "holy warrior"
C. I personally dont really care about how Witch Elves look, they dont interest me too much as a class anyways - i d rather have the Black Guard with his awsome armor ( but i ll probably play Orcs/Chaos, or even Bright Wizard/witch hunter)

So yeah =/

[Xurré]

"oh dear it appears that i am bleeding to death. How very unsatisfactory."
ROFLOL :lol:


- Xurré

[Stuntie]

You can't have Dark Elves without witch elves.
They are the single most iconic part of the Dark elf army.

If you are embaressed by thier look, then thats your problem.
This is Warhammer not a Bevis and Buthead MMORPG.

[DrainBamaged]

I agree with the people who said that if you need to look at naked chicks then skim the web a little harder and you will find something... I mean seriously, you guys take this whole lore bending WAAAAAAY too seriously. I mean you can say "Omg but the lore says there naked!"... and really, I have nothing to say to that... How much flavor would it really add to the game if they were actually nude besides that there will be a lot of big pervert nerds playing them?

[Tyurion]

im playing one for the rage-spewing factor;)

[Smarticus]

Would I play a WE because the model looks kinda attractive?

Because I'm a nerd?

Because I like the lore?

Because I like the rogue-style gameplay?

Because it's an "iconic" character?

Yes. Yes I would.

[Pira]

Lehosh (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/member.php?u=2284)

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/images/avatars/1305.gif (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/member.php?u=2284)

Join Date: May 2006
Guild: Scorn (http://www.thescornguild.com/)
Career: A Bloodpriest - WTF? bloodpriest?

[Bluucandi]

They put in a sexy T&A class because alot of woman like to identify with a sexy and deadly class. The first thing my wife told me when she seen the class was, "I know what I'm playing".

Your wife is see's what I see as well. I am female too. "Sexy and deadly" has a natural appeal to me as a female gamer.

Seriously though, I fear the amount of flack I'm going to get. My Ignore List will have to be pretty big.

My primary reasons for selecting this class are:

1. The class that reminds me of my favorite graphic novel character, Witchblade.

2. I want to play a female melee/dps class. So far, Mythic hasn't provided more than one option on the Destruction side.

[Weezel]

we're gonna need more nekkidness up in here, so I think we should stick with whatever the lore is telling us

[Cruniac]

Hi.



Saw some nudeness topic and thought id swing by and check it out!

[Smarticus]

I'm curious--are female gamers turned off by the Witch Elf or does it seem like something they maight want to play?

[Tiervexx]

I'm curious--are female gamers turned off by the Witch Elf or does it seem like something they maight want to play?

DON'T ASK A QUESTION BEFORE READING THE THREAD!

There is nothing wrong with wanting to play a toon you like looking at and/or makes you feel sexy.

[Bluucandi]

DON'T ASK A QUESTION BEFORE READING THE THREAD!

There is nothing wrong with wanting to play a toon you like looking at and/or makes you feel sexy.

Agreed. It's pitiful world we live in when we can't enjoy such without the negative & shortsighted attention. Shallow perceptions are what spoil a game.

I appreciate the effort too from people like Xurre to produce insightful and intelligent discussion regarding the class. Everytime I get discouraged by all the WE hate my resolve to play one is renewed.

[Smarticus]

DON'T ASK A QUESTION BEFORE READING THE THREAD

I'm sorry!! (Cowers in fear). I wanted to know what people other than those who have already posted thought. And Xurre kinda scares me :P

[Adamwest]

I just hope that when i use my sprint cool down i don't knock myself unconcious.

[Sorceress]

I'm curious--are female gamers turned off by the Witch Elf or does it seem like something they maight want to play?
Generally speaking I prefer to roleplay a woman who dresses for battle and expresses her gender in a way that makes it secondary to the fact that she’s going to kill you slowly and painfully!

That said I have nothing against Witch Elves and suspect that I will indeed play one, it is simply (for reasons of personal preference) not my first choice.

[pzykozis]

all three of course... yes thats doubly nerdish and perverted.. in the words of 1337 1 R W1N strange i guess i should change my name to irwin.. anyways

its a character based in a world i see no relevance in playing something thats designed to be sexy in being nerdy / perverted.. perhaps if you were making hand love with a screenshot that would be perverted. as far as nerdy goes surely everyones as nerdy for each other by playing an mmorpg... or by noticing that infact the witch elf is designed as sexy is being nerdy and perveted itself

As i see it i could be playing a witch elf / a floating grey box until someone says that is perverted or nerdy it is not.. thus by defining something as nerdy / perverted the person who defined it as such must be both of those things otherwise how could he define what it was.

ok that might not make much sense but it brings back the old saying of 'Takes one to know one' which i believe is entirely true

[NewKid]

for any guy wondering why a female would want to play a WE i have to say, ask yourselves...as guys do you want to play a pathetic little coward of a charecter or a big guy with muscels and an ego problem? Most probably answered yes i want to look kool not stupid, well women want to look sexy/feral. There are exceptions but it is a largescale point and i hope you are able to overlook the few exceptions

[Psiho246]

Dudes, I doubt WE are made couse of nerd or perverts....wtf are you talking about?
Its just a normal character that looks a bit sexier then others, i mean not everything on Destruction side has to be mutated...
Maybe some1 will have a wank on a chosen...so what? Not my problem and i don't care, you shouldn't either. :rolleyes:

[mojo_skank]

Derogatory remarks are against the Warhammer Alliance Forum Rules (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/announcement.php?f=47).

[Zunjin]

Edited for rules violation.

Thats a twisted view. The only reason a person would play a female characther is becouse its sexy? Im considering the class soley on its game mechanics and I practicaly never play female characthers otherwise.

[mojo_skank]

Thats a twisted view. The only reason a person would play a female characther is becouse its sexy? Im considering the class soley on its game mechanics and I practicaly never play female characthers otherwise.

twisted? nah i don't reckon so, it's pretty much true.

because it's sexy? so people enjoy random players around the globe to salivate over their representation in the game? thats what twisted if you ask me.

[Gemini]

twisted? nah i don't reckon so, it's pretty much true.

because it's sexy? so people enjoy random players around the globe to salivate over their representation in the game? thats what twisted if you ask me.

No, that's not "pretty much true" at all, your making huge generalizations. Is it true for some people? Sure, of course, but not all of us are attracted to everything with boobs, digital or otherwise. I play mostly male characters but sometimes I roll females too, just for variety or because they have cooler looking armor or customization choices, or just because I feel like it. I dont whack one off to my female toons, I don't strip their armor and run around on mailboxes, I just play them the same as I would a male character.

[Psiho246]

Damn ffs if i choose to play WE it wont be couse its sexy, itl be couse of game style!!! LOL
U don't have to be pervert or geek/nerd to play that class, i want to enjoy a good melee roguish dps class, and would play it even if it was ugly mutated wererat, if its game style is interesting ofc il roll it.
U have my promise il never wank on WE. :p
Well maybe just once... :lol:

[Xurré]

Well maybe just once... :lol:
Just note that everything that sticks out is free game to being cut off. :twisted:


- Xurré

[Gemini]

Xurre, that makes me very glad that I'll probably be playing a Black Orc, ya can't cut off what I don't have! Genderless fungi-beasts for the win!

[Xurré]

ya can't cut off what I don't have!
Wanna bet? :mrgreen:


- Xurré

[Flash Gitz]

Agreed. It's pitiful world we live in when we can't enjoy such without the negative & shortsighted attention. Shallow perceptions are what spoil a game.

I appreciate the effort too from people like Xurre to produce insightful and intelligent discussion regarding the class. Everytime I get discouraged by all the WE hate my resolve to play one is renewed.

I agree. There is a lot of such short sightedness in these forums too. Shallow perceptions are running rampant in the high elf forums, for example with the largest thread being "how can you like elves?" now there's a thread full of sweeping generalizations and short sightedness...

In response to this topic, I used to play a female undead mage in that other game and I did it not to look at the low poly female form, but because they simply looked cooler than the undead males. All the undead males in WoW had this "uuuuuuuuugh braiiiiins" look to them.

Also, I plan on playing a sorceress eventually and I have no intention of rolling a male. They look dull, imo. Plus they lack the big 80's metal hair.;) Nothing perverted about it.

[Dukha]

Edited for rules violation.
Why roll a female character when you're male in real life? In my case it's mostly because I generally find the female models to be cooler in appearence and style. Ever read William Gibson's novels? If you have then take a look at the Molly character. She has a special aura about her that is tied in with the fact that she is female and having that fact mean squat. Heh, kinda hard to explain exactly what I mean but oh well, it's a different aspect then what you would get from for example Conan and for me it translates much better if the character is female.
Does it have anything at all to do with sex and big boobs? No, not at all. Lets repeat that because it's apparently overlooked. Sex and sexual traits such as boobs and so on do NOT influence my choice of playing female characters. As an example, anyone thinking I spent 60 days played on my female warrior in WoW because her looks so damn fine really should get their head examined because either they recently cracked it or desperatley need it to be cracked.

Oh, and Mojo if you don't wanna offend people then don't go for insults. I of course realize that's most likely your intent but by pointing it out I atleast give you the benefit of a doubt. And as far as your logic goes, well then I must admit that your stern stance on that males should play big macho men makes me think that either your ovecompensating for something or your tastes run in different directions. I don't really believe either of those but applying your own logic (not to mention manners) leads me to draw that conclusion.

[mojo_skank]

Why roll a female character when you're male in real life? In my case it's mostly because I generally find the female models to be cooler in appearence and style. Ever read William Gibson's novels? If you have then take a look at the Molly character. She has a special aura about her that is tied in with the fact that she is female and having that fact mean squat. Heh, kinda hard to explain exactly what I mean but oh well, it's a different aspect then what you would get from for example Conan and for me it translates much better if the character is female.
Does it have anything at all to do with sex and big boobs? No, not at all. Lets repeat that because it's apparently overlooked. Sex and sexual traits such as boobs and so on do NOT influence my choice of playing female characters. As an example, anyone thinking I spent 60 days played on my female warrior in WoW because her looks so damn fine really should get their head examined because either they recently cracked it or desperatley need it to be cracked.

Oh, and Mojo if you don't wanna offend people then don't go for insults. I of course realize that's most likely your intent but by pointing it out I atleast give you the benefit of a doubt. And as far as your logic goes, well then I must admit that your stern stance on that males should play big macho men makes me think that either your ovecompensating for something or your tastes run in different directions. I don't really believe either of those but applying your own logic (not to mention manners) leads me to draw that conclusion.

er ok, no i wasn't trying to offend anyone but clearly i did anyway.

sorry but in my books if you enjoy playing female characters because you reckon they 'look cool' you're most likely (but not definitely, for all you generalisation freaks out there) a closet homosexual, i mean come on, admiring women for their look in a manner that isn't based on some form of attraction, not even deep in those rooted thoughts? oh, and before anyone accuses me of being homophobic or anything, i don't see ANYTHING wrong with it, apart from the closet bit. i figure people are given one life just live it how you feel is best for you (as long as you ain't harming anyone else) just be honest with yourself. also who said anything about playing big macho men? i just figure partly that in fantasy gaming people go for what they most fantasise about being.

PS. i'm NOT, repeat NOT calling you here Dukha before you get all riled up.

[Lucrece]

er ok, no i wasn't trying to offend anyone but clearly i did anyway.

sorry but in my books if you enjoy playing female characters because you reckon they 'look cool' you're most likely (but not definitely, for all you generalisation freaks out there) a closet homosexual, i mean come on, admiring women for their look in a manner that isn't based on some form of attraction, not even deep in those rooted thoughts? oh, and before anyone accuses me of being homophobic or anything, i don't see ANYTHING wrong with it, apart from the closet bit. i figure people are given one life just live it how you feel is best for you (as long as you ain't harming anyone else) just be honest with yourself. also who said anything about playing big macho men? i just figure partly that in fantasy gaming people go for what they most fantasise about being.

PS. i'm NOT, repeat NOT calling you here Dukha before you get all riled up.

*insert ASCII art of man going /facepalm*

[mojo_skank]

*insert ASCII art of man going /facepalm*

lol there i was thinking /facepalm was with the back of the hand to the forehead, til a good google sorted things straight

[Montz]

1 answer... deffently pervert... what was the question again?

[Psiho246]

Lol this is great, now this topic is about who's .
I wonder what would you say if all the characters in games are male, or if WE had no boobs at all and had a flat male arse. Would it make u feel better, and more manly?

[Dukha]

Well Mojo, I guess that this topic is somewhat complicated, what with it being based on people having very different ideas about things ;). Thanks for the reply to my post, while your first one ticked me off a bit admittedly this one felt a lot more constructive :). Anyhoo, I'll try to clarify what I meant a bit more.
Personally I find the stereotypical Conan character to be very one dimensional and that carries over into the toons I make (no matter if it's an MMO or single player RPG), they just feel so boring. And yeah, I know I can probably spin em around a bit to get away from the whole "big mofo manly man action figure"- concept but they still end up being boring.

i mean come on, admiring women for their look in a manner that isn't based on some form of attraction, not even deep in those rooted thoughts?

You do view women around you in different ways that "A:Can it be doinked" or "B:If A does not apply then ignore"? I would say that I view women in different ways depending on what the context is. In a nightclub on a saturday night I actually tend toward the A or B option above, simply because using the same perceptions I use when I'm at work would be just wrong for that context, just as well as using the nightclub perceptions when I'm talking to some clerk about opening a new account would be equally wrong. And when I'm sitting in fron of my comp playing away the last thing thats on my mind is doinking things because applying A or B logic while playing an MMO is pretty sad. It doesnt help teamwork either I'm guessing.
also who said anything about playing big macho men?

You did actually. The whole "super awesome badass mofo male character" line ya know. But that aside (including my own constant references to Conan...) and moving on.
i just figure partly that in fantasy gaming people go for what they most fantasise about being.
Fair point and I'm guessing that for many this is a valid argument. However not all do and for some it may well be that what they are after is the concept and not the actual image. Sure, it may help if your character looks like Conan (or whatever else example of a super awesome badass mofo male character you may think of) but it isn't required and the concept of badassness can be trapped with your character no matter the sex. However silly ingame armour sets CAN ruin it to some extent, that just have to be said :rolleyes:. Being able to change the colour on our gear is definetly FTW :mrgreen:

Bottomline: It's a small choice made for the previously mentioned reasons. I don't obsess about it, others that made the same choice doesnt obsess about it. The only ones that does seems to be the ones that don't make the same choice and can't understand why anone would make such a choice. Usually they get pretty graphic in their views about people that play female characters I've noticed wich is another thing thats pretty sad. Oh well....

PS. i'm NOT, repeat NOT calling you here Dukha before you get all riled up.
No worries, if anything you could say you retaliated seeing as I came very close to calling you in my first post :cool:. I didn't but I guess you need to read between the lines a little bit to spot it...
Do note that the reason why I'm typing all this text isn't because I'm trying to defend my own sexuality or because I'm riled up, I always end up typing short novels, no matter the topic. I just can't stop!

[Dukha]

Lol this is great, now this topic is about who's .
I wonder what would you say if all the characters in games are male, or if WE had no boobs at all and had a flat male arse. Would it make u feel better, and more manly?
Hehe, yeah I did notice it took a turn towards that... Suprisingly this seems to be a hot topic and all hot topics have their share of namecalling I suppose. And seriously, if I'm right then calling people considering what the topic is about is so very close that you just can't pass it up if namecalling is your thing. hmm, if I post anything else in this thread I'll actually keep that in mind, I generally think myself above namecalling and yet I strayed very close in my first post....

Anyhoo, if this game was limited to male only characters I would probably not play it. It's an MMO with a very rich backstory and then exclude all female characters?? Yeah right, cya in CoD5 :rolleyes:
Witch elfes with no boobies and male asses would be okay though. Perhaps I would get less requests to strip my character then. Anyways, I prefer having my toon as dressed up as possible so those female features arnt very visible either way. Kinda hard with Witch elfes though I suppose... :)

[Rathenau]

Mmmh, yeah well personally I'm not so comfortable with gender bending and thus only play male characters. And with being a narcissist and all, I also frown upon those who do. And that includes women who play a male character.

Anyways, back to the topic at hand, I'd say that the lore itself is rather perverted so it's only natural that those who play the career are as well, to a point. Whether they are big nerds, I don’t know; anyone who plays MMO's is a nerd in my book.

[Achire]

A cynical attempt to cash in on the teenage male crowd? In a video game? I was ever so surprised.

[Lucrece]

Hehe, yeah I did notice it took a turn towards that... Suprisingly this seems to be a hot topic and all hot topics have their share of namecalling I suppose. And seriously, if I'm right then calling people considering what the topic is about is so very close that you just can't pass it up if namecalling is your thing. hmm, if I post anything else in this thread I'll actually keep that in mind, I generally think myself above namecalling and yet I strayed very close in my first post....

Anyhoo, if this game was limited to male only characters I would probably not play it. It's an MMO with a very rich backstory and then exclude all female characters?? Yeah right, cya in CoD5 :rolleyes:
Witch elfes with no boobies and male asses would be okay though. Perhaps I would get less requests to strip my character then. Anyways, I prefer having my toon as dressed up as possible so those female features arnt very visible either way. Kinda hard with Witch elfes though I suppose... :)

How is implyng that someone's "name-calling"? That would imply that the term is a negative one. At best implying that someone's is purely absurd and erroneous...

[Lucrece]

Lol this is great, now this topic is about who's .
I wonder what would you say if all the characters in games are male, or if WE had no boobs at all and had a flat male arse. Would it make u feel better, and more manly?

*Snort* Males have flat asses? Clearly, you haven't been paying much attention to the finer specimens, I suppose!~

[Lucrece]

Mmmh, yeah well personally I'm not so comfortable with gender bending and thus only play male characters. And with being a narcissist and all, I also frown upon those who do. And that includes women who play a male character.

Anyways, back to the topic at hand, I'd say that the lore itself is rather perverted so it's only natural that those who play the career are as well, to a point. Whether they are big nerds, I don’t know; anyone who plays MMO's is a nerd in my book.


No, you're not narcissistic. You are simply an intolerant ;p.

[mojo_skank]

Well Mojo, I guess that this topic is somewhat complicated, what with it being based on people having very different ideas about things ;). Thanks for the reply to my post, while your first one ticked me off a bit admittedly this one felt a lot more constructive :). Anyhoo, I'll try to clarify what I meant a bit more.
Personally I find the stereotypical Conan character to be very one dimensional and that carries over into the toons I make (no matter if it's an MMO or single player RPG), they just feel so boring. And yeah, I know I can probably spin em around a bit to get away from the whole "big mofo manly man action figure"- concept but they still end up being boring.

You do view women around you in different ways that "A:Can it be doinked" or "B:If A does not apply then ignore"? I would say that I view women in different ways depending on what the context is. In a nightclub on a saturday night I actually tend toward the A or B option above, simply because using the same perceptions I use when I'm at work would be just wrong for that context, just as well as using the nightclub perceptions when I'm talking to some clerk about opening a new account would be equally wrong. And when I'm sitting in fron of my comp playing away the last thing thats on my mind is doinking things because applying A or B logic while playing an MMO is pretty sad. It doesnt help teamwork either I'm guessing.

You did actually. The whole "super awesome badass mofo male character" line ya know. But that aside (including my own constant references to Conan...) and moving on.
Fair point and I'm guessing that for many this is a valid argument. However not all do and for some it may well be that what they are after is the concept and not the actual image. Sure, it may help if your character looks like Conan (or whatever else example of a super awesome badass mofo male character you may think of) but it isn't required and the concept of badassness can be trapped with your character no matter the sex. However silly ingame armour sets CAN ruin it to some extent, that just have to be said :rolleyes:. Being able to change the colour on our gear is definetly FTW :mrgreen:

Bottomline: It's a small choice made for the previously mentioned reasons. I don't obsess about it, others that made the same choice doesnt obsess about it. The only ones that does seems to be the ones that don't make the same choice and can't understand why anone would make such a choice. Usually they get pretty graphic in their views about people that play female characters I've noticed wich is another thing thats pretty sad. Oh well....

fair point but i'm too tired to come up with a constructed and intelligent argument so i think i'll just call you and let things end there. maybe i can come back and edit tomorrow.

No worries, if anything you could say you retaliated seeing as I came very close to calling you in my first post :cool:. I didn't but I guess you need to read between the lines a little bit to spot it...
Do note that the reason why I'm typing all this text isn't because I'm trying to defend my own sexuality or because I'm riled up, I always end up typing short novels, no matter the topic. I just can't stop!

oh don't worry i spotted it, it just doesn't bother me when people call me . it's like "meh, so what if i was? i'd probably be happier that way but i have been cursed with desiring females. WHEN WILL THIS TORMENT END???"

[Browncoat-WHA]

This topic's not too bad, but it's skirting the edge with a few posts. You know better, I'm sure.

[Dukha]

How is implyng that someone's "name-calling"? That would imply that the term is a negative one. At best implying that someone's is purely absurd and erroneous...
What I meant was that people that are into namecalling will more often than not use the word "" as something negative. Personally I agree completly with you, using that term in such a fashion is both absurd and erroneous.
fair point but i'm too tired to come up with a constructed and intelligent argument so i think i'll just call you and let things end there. maybe i can come back and edit tomorrow.
I'll check back later then.

[kharnage]

Since we have a few visuals of the Witch Elves (which we didn't have the last time this topic was brought up) I thought we might return to the topic of Witch Elf Lore vs. Functionality/T-Rating. Specifically, how important is it to have a nearly nude witch elf?

I'm a hardcore Dark Elf fan and I was expecting chainmail bikinis and such. My other friends who are into Warhammer were sort of disappointed when the concept art of the witch elves came out and they were wearing so much clothing (with the possible exception of that highest tier outfit). My friends who weren't into Warhammer just assumed we were perverted and told us to watch some pr0n if we wanted to see something naked, but the Warhammer friends were adamant that it had (almost) nothing to do with seeing naked chicks and everything to do with the immersive Warhammer atmosphere.

So we explained to the non-Warhammer friends about the cult of Khaine, about the debauched religious nature of their non-clothing, and about their crazy bloodlust and such. After much ado about the logistics of being naked in the Land of Chill, or running around with no support for D-cup boobs, and no armor in close combat, it all boiled down to the need for immersiveness. How important is it that a witch elf be a more crazy, skimpy, bloodied (and perhaps not T-Rated) character? Does it detract from the icon that she is so modest and apparently not crazed?

I think Mythic did a great job. They want to stay true to the Witch Elf image in Warhammer while doing thier best not to offend those people who will cry sexism and double standard at every small detail. So while the WE may not be as bare as in some of the fluff, she is far more bare than any female in the game. Think of it this way - if you saw a picture if the Mythic WE you would recognize it immediatly without being told. That's the mark of success!

And I'm not sure what they could do to show how blood crazed they are. I would wait until the game comes out to see how they act. It's too early right now (IMO).

[Rathenau]

...those people who will cry sexism and double standard at every small detail...
Wait, wait, every small detail? I'm sorry but are you perhaps a bit detached from reality here? We are talking about women that run around dressed in little but bikini’s while others are covered from head to toe in metal.

That is about as sexist and double standard as you can get, literally. You simply shouldn't fool yourself thinking it's anything else, and it's really not relevant if it is or isn't the same on the table top version. Mainly because that to is, well pretty much the same.

Now, with that said I should mention I really don't care either way, just pointing out the obvious here.

[kharnage]

Wait, wait, every small detail? I'm sorry but are you perhaps a bit detached from reality here? We are talking about women that run around dressed in little but bikini’s while others are covered from head to toe in metal.

That is about as sexist and double standard as you can get, literally. You simply shouldn't fool yourself thinking it's anything else, and it's really not relevant if it is or isn't the same on the table top version. Mainly because that to is, well pretty much the same.

Now, with that said I should mention I really don't care either way, just pointing out the obvious here.


I'm referring to more than the WE. But the fact that the WE is more covered up by Mythic than in the fluff is not going to satisfy those people that feel a need to complain about everything.

Some people don't like Warhammer. They hate the idea of WE and any female not fully covered, and all the regular crap you can find on the forum. Trying to satisfy these people is pointless - it's impossible. Even if mythic slavishly did everything these people wanted they would still find something to complain about.

It's more important to make an awesome game, based faithfully on Warhammer.

I would like to see someone make a politically correct game for all the people that so desperately want to change other games to their narrow views. I can't imagine it would be any good, but at least people that like other games (Like Warhammer) could just say "Go play World of PC" and stop trying to mess up everything else!;)

[Lucrece]

I'm referring to more than the WE. But the fact that the WE is more covered up by Mythic than in the fluff is not going to satisfy those people that feel a need to complain about everything.

Some people don't like Warhammer. They hate the idea of WE and any female not fully covered, and all the regular crap you can find on the forum. Trying to satisfy these people is pointless - it's impossible. Even if mythic slavishly did everything these people wanted they would still find something to complain about.

It's more important to make an awesome game, based faithfully on Warhammer.

I would like to see someone make a politically correct game for all the people that so desperately when to change other games to their narrow views.

You do realize that WE's were not created wearing chain mail bikini's from the start, don't you?

The original fluff had them far more covered while still maintaining their seductive, savage appeal.

[kharnage]

WE have been the way they are for close to 15 yrs. They shouldn't be changed now due to a few people who happen to complain a lot. (IMO) It looks like Mythic toned them down a little for the sensitive types while still retaining much of thier badness.

[Lucrece]

WE have been the way they are for close to 15 yrs. They shouldn't be changed now due to a few people who happen to complain a lot. (IMO) It looks like Mythic toned them down a little for the sensitive types while still retaining much of thier badness.

No, they toned them down because, believe it or not, they have a T rating to keep.

[Fat Otaku]

Uz Greenskins got no ladies ta look at. But we say wez need ta bring protection when we meat a Witch Elf.

[Xurré]

Uz Greenskins got no ladies ta look at. But we say wez need ta bring protection when we meat a Witch Elf.
That is wrong on so many levels. :shock:


- Xurré

[Fat Otaku]

Waz wrong wit bringing a extra shield wit us?

[i fart rainbows]

I find it hard to believe Slanaesh was too much for the devs, yet they brought in witch elves? Should have made the melee dps shades as they could be male/female and wouldn't be as unpopular as the witch elf.

See - > http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23298

Less than 10% of people planning to play DE seem to thing the witch elf was a good choice, while all the rest seem to take roughly 30% of the vote.

[Xurré]

Waz wrong wit bringing a extra shield wit us?
Nothing, why do you think we brought the Greenskins along? Someone's got to act as the meat shield. :p


- Xurré

[Gemini]

I find it hard to believe Slanaesh was too much for the devs, yet they brought in witch elves? Should have made the melee dps shades as they could be male/female and wouldn't be as unpopular as the witch elf.

See - > http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23298

Less than 10% of people planning to play DE seem to thing the witch elf was a good choice, while all the rest seem to take roughly 30% of the vote.

Theres a huge difference between thinking Witch Elf was a good choice, and it being their favorite DE class. Also, Shade as melee dps? If Shades were in they should have most defiantly been ranged, they are the iconic reapter-crossbow wielder. I can understand wanting Corsairs or Assassins, even Executioners, but Shades?

[Rathenau]

Indeed a somewhat illogical choice. Either way, I am still surprised they haven't added the assassin in the mix. Looking at Diablo II; Throne of Bhaal I'd say it makes a fine career to play.

[Gemini]

Indeed a somewhat illogical choice. Either way, I am still surprised they haven't added the assassin in the mix. Looking at Diablo II; Throne of Bhaal I'd say it makes a fine career to play.


First of all, the D2 assassin only shares a name with the Warhammer assassin, and nothing else, not to mention they are completely different games. Second, how is the Witch Elf an illogical choice? Badass warrior priestess who use drugs and poison to tear enemies to shreds, not to mention one of the most iconic units in Warhammer Fantasy.

[Lord Tareq]

I still think they should have split the Witch Elf career, making the males Assassins. It would simply mean replacing the names of abilities, turning the frenzy mechanic into "assassination" mechanic (doing the same), and the Witch Elf gear should look like assassins garbs on an Assassin. Sure would take slightly more effort on the designers part, but not so much over a "normal" male/female class. (just renaming some things and changing the way gear looks)

In terms of abilities the Witch Elf abilities suit Assassins as well or even better anyway:
- Elixirs? Assassins use them (in fluff and in the TT Shadowblade has a potion of strength, increasing his strength for 1 round of combat...sounds familiar huh)
- Poisons? Assassins use them
- Flurry of attacks? Assassins fight that way
- Jump out of combat ability? Suits Assassins even alot better then Witch Elves.



ps. The title of this topic annoys me to no end :rolleyes:

[Rathenau]

Heh, heh, it is rather offensive isn't it? And eh, agreed the assassin and witch elf do seem to share a lot of background and could do the same with in game mechanics.

As to Gemini, perhaps I should have been more clear. I meant that the fact that i fart rainbows presented shades as a melee damage class where, as you rightfully said, they are primarily ranged on the table top. And assassins being dramatically different in Warhammer then in the expansion of Diablo 2? I'd disagree gravely, with the exception of the skaven fighting claws that is.

Obviously WAR and D2 are different games, but that doesn't rule out any similarities by default.

[Linolea]

Here is the concept art for the new WE gear:

http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/rro/lowres/rron183l.jpg

Seriously folks... being at the elderly end of the gaming age spectrum, married, and male, I am gender-bending if I play a WE (which I most probably will). Why? Because I like the look of the play mechanic. The other option I would consider is probably WH, but WE really looks to fit my playstyle more. Only beta-testing or early impressions in game will settle the case for which I choose to play.

As for my wife, she likes ranged DPS types, so she may opt for sorceress or the like. Not optimum classes for duo-play by any means, but you have to play what you enjoy playing.

Cheers,
Lin

PS> If you are really interested in the reasons why people gender bend in MMO's, feel free to browse The Daedalus Project here:
http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/gateway_genderbend.html
and here:
http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/000551.php
Fascinating research IMO.