Looks like we'll be getting White Lions too.

[Dastion]

Granted, Mythic does like to give false clues at times. But, this does seem a bit too much to pass up. If you read the Chrace overview it all but admits that the melee DPS pet class that we now know High Elves will have (since the Ranged DPS is Shadow Warrior), will be the White Lion.

http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/gameInfo/zoneOverviews/Chrace/ChraceOverview.php

"For generations, the White Lions of Chrace have defended Ulthuan and the Phoenix Throne. Only the strongest and most skillful warriors and hunters of the kingdom earn membership in the White Lions. To prove his worth, each initiate must defeat in single combat one of the fierce creatures for whom the unit is named. Sometimes a bond forms between the lion and his master, and they accept one another as equals. For any who stand against these noble warriors of Chrace, it is a deadly combination."

[Gaazruk]

Gah if white lions are in Im gonna need to make yet another alt!

[Lord Tareq]

Yup that was my idea as well when I read it, not much of a surprise either. Since the ShadowWarrior is obviously not the pet class, and they already announced high elves to get a pet class, its like 99% certain White Lions will become a melee-pet class.

[Loekii]

I actually am a little worried that the HE/DE front will be the 'kiddie' front, in the sense that it appears to be designed be attractive to the 'younger' gamer. It is like they are handing out pixie sticks with every HE/DE toon made. :D

[Vikingkingq]

Sweet. I have to say, High Elf careers have worked out perfectly. All the iconic careers are there, all doing what they do best. There's no "blah" careers (not that I think that any of the other career setups are blah), and they all seem to really perfectly express the nature of the High Elves.

[dutch_gamer]

Yep, my thoughts exactly. After I read that I first had to check the Shadow Warrior podcast to see if they would mention pets, which they didn't. And since the piece about Chrace states that White Lions form a bond with the lion, it is pretty much a given they will be the pet class. Another thing to note is the mention about the White Lions joining up with the Shining Guard, which is the HE player faction.

/off topic Did anyone notice that the Phoenix King is back in Ulthuan after all? Last time they wrote about him, they made it appear he wouldn't be back on time, but apparently he is back in Lothern.

[Auricthunder]

It is like they are handing out pixie sticks with every HE/DE toon made. :D

Mmmm, pixie sticks... Oh, erm, BEER!

[Jinsei]

Yep, my thoughts exactly. After I read that I first had to check the Shadow Warrior podcast to see if they would mention pets, which they didn't. And since the piece about Chrace states that White Lions form a bond with the lion, it is pretty much a given they will be the pet class. Another thing to note is the mention about the White Lions joining up with the Shining Guard, which is the HE player faction.

/off topic Did anyone notice that the Phoenix King is back in Ulthuan after all? Last time they wrote about him, they made it appear he wouldn't be back on time, but apparently he is back in Lothern.
Excellent. I'd hate to have to go to Altdorf to chop him into three pieces. :twisted::twisted::twisted:

[Vikingkingq]

Yep, my thoughts exactly. After I read that I first had to check the Shadow Warrior podcast to see if they would mention pets, which they didn't. And since the piece about Chrace states that White Lions form a bond with the lion, it is pretty much a given they will be the pet class. Another thing to note is the mention about the White Lions joining up with the Shining Guard, which is the HE player faction.

/off topic Did anyone notice that the Phoenix King is back in Ulthuan after all? Last time they wrote about him, they made it appear he wouldn't be back on time, but apparently he is back in Lothern.

Yeah, I noticed that too. I guess they changed the Lore slightly, and I think it works better in two ways: 1. it means that the HE racial leader is the Phoenix King, making the capture more meaningful. 2. it provides a rationale for the eventual retaking of Lothern - the cavalry arrives in the nick of time.

[mongoose]

"For generations, the White Lions of Chrace have defended Ulthuan and the Phoenix Throne. Only the strongest and most skillful warriors and hunters of the kingdom earn membership in the White Lions. To prove his worth, each initiate must defeat in single combat one of the fierce creatures for whom the unit is named. Sometimes a bond forms between the lion and his master, and they accept one another as equals. For any who stand against these noble warriors of Chrace, it is a deadly combination."

Oh curses! If my internet connection hadnt picked JUST this time to act like a 28k modem I would have posted that :mad:

also notice this part.....Sometimes a bond forms between lion and his master, and they accept one another as equals.

I dont know about you but that just SCREAMS pet to me. I would say that is about as close to confirmation we can possibly get without them actually coming right out and say it.......While Lions are gonna be a melee pet class. :cool:

(I had a talk with the powers that be and my connection speed has returned so I fixed the black bits :-P)

[Vikingkingq]

Oh curses! If my internet connection hadnt picked JUST this time to act like a 28k modem I would have posted that :mad:

also notice this part.......Sometimes a bond forms between the lion and his master, and they accept one another as equals.

I dont know about you but that just SCREAMS pet to me. I would say that is about as close to confirmation we can possibly get without them actually coming right out and say it.......While Lions are gonna be a melee pet class. :cool:

Yeah, that's more or less what I thought as well when I saw that.
Which is awesome.

[Estebar]

*breathes on avatar, and gives it a bit of a polish*

;)

[Screwhealz]

Ya i like how they basically told us that we will be getting White Lions too without officially telling us. Now I think we can officially say that High Elves have the coolest classes in WAR.

[Lordhelsby]

I just hope all the lions don't have a silly breaded beard thing dangling down from their chin.

I can understand why they did it, and it will probarbly still be great, but I think this takes a bit of the edge off why White Lion's are cool. Hard nuts with big axes, and now big cats?

I think I'll just have to give it time to grow on me.

[Karandor]

HE classes may be cool but they're still a bunch of prancing fairies.


DIE

[mongoose]

HE classes may be cool but they're still a bunch of prancing fairies.


DIE

WHO let the Goblin in here???!

Eh, no matter....<opens the lion cage> sick em boys!

[Dracallo]

lions tigers bears! OH MY!

[Estebar]

HE classes may be cool but they're still a bunch of prancing fairies. Fairies and Goblins tend to prance around on mushrooms together in folklore.

Either get prancing or zog off, gobbo.

[dynamo112]

Yup, pretty solid that White Lions will be in now. Unless in a later podcast they mention the shadow warriors ability to use some kind of bird or something...anywho if White Lions are in i was right about 3/4 HE careers (was clueless on the support class).

[Dracius]

I'm going to have to go ORDER then..

With the only HE class not yet revealed being the melee dps class, and the promise that Order is still due to get a pet class... That could only mean MELEE PET CLASS.

Regardless if it's a white lion, or what ever they decide to name it... I'm gonna have a tough class/faction decision to make come retail.

Only thing that might sway me, is if the ranged dps for dark elves, is a more pet oriented pet class. That's highly unlikely though given the current trends. Guess I gotta wait 3 more months to know for sure... with the way they're trickling out info. >.<

[Feigro]

Yeah, I noticed that too. I guess they changed the Lore slightly

They never said he would stay in the old world. In fact, I think this is the natural, intended progression of the story. It states he brings back reinforcements from the old world. Which naturally to me means his leaving and returning was merely a way to get Empire and Dwarf forces onto the island in a quick fashion.

That was when people see Human and Dwarf quest givers and the like, the question as to how and/or why they're there is answered - The Phoenix King brought them back with him.

Oh and on White Lions;

They're awesome. Gonna be a cool pet class. Hope the fluff doesn't over do it with this "forming a bond" nonsense. They don't need to be buddy buddy about the relationship. The Elf beat the Lion in single combat, it can be a sheer force of dominance. Not that a bond through combat couldn't eventually form. But I'd rather the relationship to be described as a very military one. Like between a Commander and his troop.

[Dustandpolos]

Between the Shadow Warrior news and confirmation we really will be given a genuine Melee Pet class, this has to rank as the best newsletter yet. Heh, poor Dark Elves...still waiting...

They had to bring Finubar back. The Dark Elves would've rioted otherwise. Plus there's no way the Phoenix King would keep his armies in the Old World while Ulthuan was being overrun, not for any alliance.

[Dracius]

Oh and on White Lions;

They're awesome. Gonna be a cool pet class. Hope the fluff doesn't over do it with this "forming a bond" nonsense. They don't need to be buddy buddy about the relationship. The Elf beat the Lion in single combat, it can be a sheer force of dominance. Not that a bond through combat couldn't eventually form. But I'd rather the relationship to be described as a very military one. Like between a Commander and his troop.
I'm actually hoping they go the other way.

That's why I enjoy pet classes so much, because of the synergy that exists when it's done correctly. Probably why I've never liked caster style pet classes, because they just send their pets in, and forget about them. They're nothing more than either a meat shield, or a damage spell that has to chase after it's target.

At any rate, like the rest of you, this most recent news letter has made me quite a bit more eager for the release of the game.

[Faltina]

Granted, Mythic does like to give false clues at times. But, this does seem a bit too much to pass up. If you read the Chrace overview it all but admits that the melee DPS pet class that we now know High Elves will have (since the Ranged DPS is Shadow Warrior), will be the White Lion.

http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/gameInfo/zoneOverviews/Chrace/ChraceOverview.php

&quot;For generations, the White Lions of Chrace have defended Ulthuan and the Phoenix Throne. Only the strongest and most skillful warriors and hunters of the kingdom earn membership in the White Lions. To prove his worth, each initiate must defeat in single combat one of the fierce creatures for whom the unit is named. Sometimes a bond forms between the lion and his master, and they accept one another as equals. For any who stand against these noble warriors of Chrace, it is a deadly combination.&quot;

Yeah the Chrace quote talking about the lion "accepting one another" kinda points in the direction of them being a pet class... and seeing as Shadow Warriors don't appear to have a pet, (as that'd surely be something that would've been mentioned about the class from the outset, right?), it's looking more and more like they will be the pet class. We'll have to wait and see. :D

[Athenys]

I take it their pet is going to be the second lion they run into. The first is the one they are wearing :rolleyes:. How their 'force of will' works is easy enough to explain:

Lion: I'm hungry :?.
Elf: Greetings, I seek your aid...
Lion: My, what a meaty looking elf :twisted:.
Lion: *sees pelt*
Lion: That's my DAD!?! You !:cry:
Elf: *fingers axe*
Lion: :shock:
Lion: Alright, I'll be your friend...

[Dastion]

also notice this part.....Sometimes a bond forms between lion and his master, and they accept one another as equals.


That little bit was pretty much my entire point in making a post about how likely White Lions were as a pet class. Since they didn't seem to control pets in the lore that I'd heard of (i didn't play TT or anything), all I had heard was that they had to "defeat a lion" to earn their title. The slight twist so that they form a bond seems perfect to making this a melee pet class. I really look forward to seeing what they have to offer, a melee pet class is quite unique in just about every game. Last game I can think of that had them was EQ with Shadowknights and Beastlords.

[Dastion]

I take it their pet is going to be the second lion they run into. The first is the one they are wearing :rolleyes:. How their 'force of will' works is easy enough to explain:

Lion: I'm hungry :?.
Elf: Greetings, I seek your aid...
Lion: My, what a meaty looking elf :twisted:.
Lion: *sees pelt*
Lion: That's my DAD!?! You !:cry:
Elf: *fingers axe*
Lion: :shock:
Lion: Alright, I'll be your friend...

That bit right there was my only real confusion over everyone saying that White Lion coudl be the pet class, since Iw as under the impression that they wore the pelt of the lion they killed. Perhaps these white lions are of a slightly different sort. There are some White Lions who simply kill the lion and take it's pelt, while there are some who instead form a bond and accept eachother as equals rather than kill one another.

[Atheis Kurayami]

There are two types of white lions, the ones that are captured as cubs and then raised by the high elves. Those are the ones you see with the braided beards and pulling the chariots. The other ones are the ones who grow up in the wild and tend to run around killing every thing they come in contact with. Those lions are the ones the hunters of Charace kill and then skin them for a cloak.

[Graven]

I'm kind of at a crossroad... I do love the White Lions, how they're quite different from the common idea of an elf, the lore behind them and so on... but I utterly despise pet classes. The only thing that's stopping me from crossing them from my list of alts is how they manage to make the pet mechanics. I've never played a melee pet class, so I can only wait and see...

[Merketh]

gah, I wish i wasn't faction bound with my guild already! Shadow Warriors have always topped my lists in lore, and White Lions aren't half bad either. :???:

[Riddly]

A melee pet class? Sounds very cool, can't wait to see where they go with this...if they do go with it :rolleyes:.

[doobers]

Rise again, little fighter!

Do I call mine "Tramp" or "Bratta"? Hmm...

[Grimald]

If white lions are in and they have the pets i'm definately making it my main, it puts two of the things i love together- Great big axe wielding melee style combat and a pet.

[Chiriokt T'vlkaailkt]

HE classes may be cool but they're still a bunch of prancing fairies.


DIE

This goblin speaks the truth.
Die in the name of Change!

[Dastion]

Well, we'll have two haughty better than thou High Elf careers (Sword Master and Archmage), and two that are haughty and better than you, but prefer to just rip your throat out or put an arrow in you so you can figure it out for yourself :)

Im liking the High Elf career set up quite a bit.

[Axxar]

I liked the Captain class in LotRO, which was a melee pet class. He was a moderately armoured support class who could buff and heal (as could his "pets" to a lesser extent) while fighting. So while he wouldn't be a melee DPS career like the White Lion, it does a good job of showing a melee pet class working well. His pets consisted of an assortment of heralds of which he could have one active at a time.

[Grimald]

I liked the Captain class in LotRO, which was a melee pet class. He was a moderately armoured support class who could buff and heal (as could his "pets" to a lesser extent) while fighting. So while he wouldn't be a melee DPS career like the White Lion, it does a good job of showing a melee pet class working well. His pets consisted of an assortment of heralds of which he could have one active at a time.

Problem with them was their pets did next to no damage :p

[Ruinx]

If White Lions really are the HE Pet Class, and the lions are as pretty as the picture of one indicates, then dammit, my "Destruction for me!" thinking may be challenged. I've never seen a melee DPSer with a pet before. That's quite an exciting concept, really, though I sincerely hope that the White Lions don't do lame DPS when ol' petsy is dead, because that'd be pretty silly.

Still, the possibilities, and the style... interesting.

[Grimald]

I would imagine they would still do good dps since they will be the definate melee dps and the concept of the pet may be they have the positional attacks which you can control.

[Foofmonger]

My post pressing question is whether the pets function as persistent guardians (like a wow hunter), or summonable temporary allies (say you call for you lion and he rushes to your aid for an attack, and dissapears. I personally have no preference, but that would be what I am most interested to hear about.

[Grimald]

Well Squid hunters can keep their pets out until they die (which happens often depending on what type) while i think the white lion can be kept out indefinately like wow hunters.

[Feigro]

A way to sustain the DPS of the Elf itself would be to have attack chains between the Elf and the Lion. Naturally the Elf may be strong, with the Lion giving an added bonus. But working in tandem is where the DPS and utility potential is brought out.

For example, have an attack for the Elf that is a bleed ability. It acts as your typical DoT, but has the bonus effect of instilling vigor in the Lion. So that in addition to the DoT, the Lion does more damage through out the duration of the bleed.

Other possibilities are such that have attacks on the Lion pet that can only be activated after certain abilities the elf uses. So it's almost like the Lion and Elf are working in complete synergy and building power off each other.

You could build it in a way that if the Lion is lost... It's not so much power that you lose, but rather utility and certain peak potential for damage. That way the Elf can still seem strong and not solely Dependant on the pet, while still crediting the pet with great worth.

[Dastion]

It would be interesting if their "chase" ability was like a command pounce. You command your pet to leap at the target and knock him down, possibly hamstringing him as well.

I also like the idea of the combination abilities. You do an ability which your pet will combo off of. For example, you might have a melee knock down which, if your pet is on the same target, will cause it to do a big hit as it takes advantage of the enemy's prone position. As the previous poster said, this would make it so that not all of your abilities were focused on either you or your pet so that you still had access to most of your abilities even if your pet was down, but you lost a bit of the synergy. So, you still have access to your useful knock down ability, but lose the potential for the big hit from the pet.

Im sure there will also be some sort of shapeshift ability where you become a "weretiger" type creature(likely losing your pet to do so). Since Destruction already has a similar ability for their pet class and another class which shifts parts of it's body.. Im sure they'll give Order one as well.

Honestly, I was pretty set on playing Dark Elves until I saw all of the cool stuff Order is getting. Don't get me wrong, destruction has some cool stuff too.. but High Elves are definitely not going to be the haughty pansies they are in most games. I mean, some of the classes still have that, but White Lion and Shadow Warrior (assuming WL is in) will definitely change things.

Too bad the deciding factor for me is likely going to be the DE Healer, and I'm fairly certain that they'll save it for last since it has so much controversy. (Beware the DE Boards)

There are so many interesting things they can do with a melee DPS pet user that other games have failed to explore.

[Gemini]

I've been expecting a melee pet class like the White Lion as soon as they confirmed that the HE would be getting a pet class, and always liked the idea. But now that it's so much closer, I'm getting worried, because the moer I think about it, the more I'm wondering if I'll be an Order player...

[Thorval]

Totally gonna name my pet Aslan.

[Taurth]

Im sure there will also be some sort of shapeshift ability where you become a "weretiger" type creature(likely losing your pet to do so). Since Destruction already has a similar ability for their pet class and another class which shifts parts of it's body.. Im sure they'll give Order one as well.I'm not a High Elf lore expert, but I don't think anyone in the Warhammer World, other than the Amber(?) Wizards and possibly Wood Elf's can shapeshift, let alone White Lions who're simply the Phoenix Kings guard, who usually kill the lions to prove themselves (the lore has been bent slightly to allow a pet class).

Mutations are entirely a Chaos thing, and Elves don't seem to mutate anyway. So no, I highly doubt we'll be seeing any Werelions or whatever.

[wellsy]

I'm not a High Elf lore expert, but I don't think anyone in the Warhammer World, other than the Amber(?) Wizards and possibly Wood Elf's can shapeshift, let alone White Lions who're simply the Phoenix Kings guard, who usually kill the lions to prove themselves (the lore has been bent slightly to allow a pet class).

Mutations are entirely a Chaos thing, and Elves don't seem to mutate anyway. So no, I highly doubt we'll be seeing any Werelions or whatever.

QFT.

While I understand the origin of the concept, it just doesn't fit. There could indeed be some magic involved (The Lion's Roar, anyone?), but no mutations.

And this...

Well, we'll have two haughty better than thou High Elf careers (Sword Master and Archmage), and two that are haughty and better than you, but prefer to just rip your throat out or put an arrow in you so you can figure it out for yourself :)

Im liking the High Elf career set up quite a bit.

Is sig-worthy!

[Nunizillion]

Totally gonna name my pet Aslan.

jesus christ is a lion, get in the van ect ect ;P

See, now im having a serious conflict of intrests. first I was tempted away from destruction by the shadow warrior, and a good friend who has been eyeing the high elves. now, with the posibility of White lions (this is still speculative but still) I dunno... I think... I think I might become... orderly D:

[Dastion]

Mutations are entirely a Chaos thing, and Elves don't seem to mutate anyway. So no, I highly doubt we'll be seeing any Werelions or whatever.

I wasn't so much refering to the mutations as the Squigherder's ability to combine with his pet, I think it's possible we will see something similar for the White Lion since this whole "bond" they form is completely new to the Warhammer world and we really have no idea how it might manifest itself. Just an interesting idea, I'll be happy if they have combo abilities like what i suggested. Ideally I'd like to see 3 types of abilities. Player abilities, Pet Abilities, and Combo abilities.

Also, if I would have known I was going to get sig'd I probably would have written that out a little better.

[Sgt Mc Badass]

I don't mind the idea of White Lions being a pet class thinking about it. Previously I would have had a problem with it as it didn't seem to fit in with the lore. With the release of the 6th Army book the new fluff seems to suggest the option of taming and rearing lion cubs by the warriors or chrace. However as the lore says this is an option. White Lions are not signified by the fact that they have a white lion standing next to them but that they have defeated a White Lion in combat and wear their pelt over their backs.
Within in the game theres several ways this could work. I'm guessing when you start off as a white lion you have already quested your lion pelt otherwise you wouldn't be a white lion. So thats tier 1. However maybe if you wanted a white lion cub you could quest it or be lucky enough to come across it. People would then suggest imbalance between a non pet and a pet WL (white lion). I think this could be corrected not by making a pet wielding WL weaker but by allowing the non pet wielding WL quicker access to morale and tactic abilities. As after all if your training, feeding and worrying about 'Rory the lion' all day your not going to get enough time to go to advanced axe wielding ievening college class
There has always been an emphasis on selecting a 'path' for your character to follow. If you look at the Shadow Warrior it could be simplyfied into bow bow bow bow bow or bow bow bow bow and sword. The game needs distinct archetypes for a myriad of different reasons but mythic has always said within those you can do your own thang. By saying Destruction has a pet class imediately justifies an Order pet class never really made sense to me as 'pet class' was never an archtype. The fact that squid herder was in there made sense to me as its a definite part of the greenskin theme. I'm not sure if it's as true as lion accompanied WL. Which is why in a very long roundabout way saying white lions could be a melee DPS with the option of being a pet class.
Tell me what you think.

p.s. this could be a waste of time, could be dragon princes, silver helms, ellyrion reavers or phoenix guard. Doubt it however.

[Necrophyt]

Squig vs Lion this sunday on paperview.

[Addelbreich]

I actually am a little worried that the HE/DE front will be the 'kiddie' front, in the sense that it appears to be designed be attractive to the 'younger' gamer. It is like they are handing out pixie sticks with every HE/DE toon made. :D

The number of times I have seen something like this posted... :roll: I must have seen it on about twenty different thread topics and yet everyone announces it as if they are the first to worry about it! :mrgreen:

Don't worry about it too much Loekii. Although I'd probably agree that "elves" in general are attractive to younger generations (myself included when I was young, I also saw it a lot in the BE population on my WoW server) I don't think you need to care. There are always guilds and regiments or whatever they're called in WAR that are dedicated to mature and experienced players so if you join one you won't have to even bother talking to most of the other players. That's what I found anyway...

[Eltair Shadowblade]

I might make some mistakes, but here are how the white lions (elfes) get their kitties.

The white lions are sent on a quest to track, and kill a white lion in hand in hand combat.
If he returns with the famous white lion cloak/robe thingy, he's a white lion.

Grown up white lions are impossible to taim, and have become crazy bloodseeking animals.
However, if you manage to find a white lion cub, you can raise them in a way that they don't get that blood thirsty like attitude(at least, not unless you tell him so;))

So yes, you will have a bond with your lion.
You are going to raise him, and fight with him, so i think it's safe to assume you will have some kind of bond with him

[Malal]

Sometimes a bond forms between the lion and his master, and they accept one another as equals[/B]. For any who stand against these noble warriors of Chrace, it is a deadly combination."

LOL the beastiality jokes will never get dull :twisted:

[Avatar Of War]

In the immortal words of Elmyra from Tiny Toons (about having a pet):

"And I will LUV him and hug him and squeeze him and make him my very own!"

[shotgunbadger]

Damn it, the Dwarf and Elf classes look so cool, but,.....I love my Greenskins, I love my WAAAGH, I love my squigs...but....WHITE LIONS!

*cries*

Anyway, if this is how they're done I WILL go Order for sure: Your first class quest is to hunt and kill a mother white lion. You go and kill the mother, but instead of going to the trainer again you get a little 'objective mark' (like how WoW does the ? sign and LotRO has the ring symbols) over a cub. When you check the cub the text says that it sees you as it's new parent now that its mother is dead. When you return you have your cub in tow, the trainer tells you "Alright, you proved yourself, welcome to the White Lions. Oh, lookie there, you made a bond with the cub, nurture it and it will become a strong ally in your war." or some stuff. At the begining it's just a cub, so you have to do alot of fighting to keep it safe, but as you grow (say, level 10) thanks to the whole What You See Is What You Get minds of our devs, the lion grows with each level, and by 10 it becomes big enough to shift from 'DD that needs to be protected by you' to 'DD that can actually offtank for you'. Finally, when you're a big tough level 40, you have a nice big lion at your side and look like a true badass.

If that happens, I'll join Order and foresake the WAAGH. Why? Because it seems to fit the best. For some reason I can't see an adult lion go "Oh you kicked my , and you must be one of the Elves that wears my kind's pelt as a trophy, let me follow you home", but I can see this happening. Also, since we're Melee pets for a revolution, our pets don't have to be basically kites for us (That's what they are for us Ranged Pet classes, tools to keep the mob at range and then secondary DD, in that order) we can afford to have our DD slowly build as we level.

[wellsy]

I see people here saying that we'll be raising cubs. I don't believe it to be so.

Why? If you look at the text, it says "sometimes a bond forms between a lion and its master", which to me implies that, maybe you get told to go and find... perhaps an adolescent lion, which attacks you. When you best it, you get the option of taming it by force of will, or killing it.

This allows for the pet class to exist, with the seperate paths for those who want to have fun with axes and those who want axes and lions.

An adolescent may sound a bit cheap and you might go "If its an adolescent, then why not a cub?" Well, here's why; first, we can't have people taming a fully grown line. Thats just rediculous. Second, a cub would be too weak to help you initially, and it sounds really kind of cheap that you kill its mother/father and then tame it. Third, though you've already got your lion pelt at the start of the game (part of the gimmick), it lets you choose when you want to get the pet (as you level up, you can tame older and older lions). And fourth, it lets you show off that you have the willpower to tame a lion, and bond with it.

The bond should not be master and servant, or father and young son, but rather more of equals. Like a fencer respecting a kendo master, and vice versa. They practice the same art (close quarters combat), but use different methods and have vastly different philosophies. But they still respect, and I daresay, honour each other.

Thats my take on the White Lions.

[Eltair Shadowblade]

I see people here saying that we'll be raising cubs. I don't believe it to be so.

Why? If you look at the text, it says "sometimes a bond forms between a lion and its master", which to me implies that, maybe you get told to go and find... perhaps an adolescent lion, which attacks you. When you best it, you get the option of taming it by force of will, or killing it.

This allows for the pet class to exist, with the seperate paths for those who want to have fun with axes and those who want axes and lions.

An adolescent may sound a bit cheap and you might go "If its an adolescent, then why not a cub?" Well, here's why; first, we can't have people taming a fully grown line. Thats just rediculous. Second, a cub would be too weak to help you initially, and it sounds really kind of cheap that you kill its mother/father and then tame it. Third, though you've already got your lion pelt at the start of the game (part of the gimmick), it lets you choose when you want to get the pet (as you level up, you can tame older and older lions). And fourth, it lets you show off that you have the willpower to tame a lion, and bond with it.

The bond should not be master and servant, or father and young son, but rather more of equals. Like a fencer respecting a kendo master, and vice versa. They practice the same art (close quarters combat), but use different methods and have vastly different philosophies. But they still respect, and I daresay, honour each other.

Thats my take on the White Lions.
Rofl, its far too dangerous to try to tame an adolescent.
The whole idea of taming a cub, is so you can raise them in a way they respect you/listen to you.
A adolescent has already grown the bloodthirstness in him, and good luck trying to tame that.

You wont survive that.
That's how the new lore says it, you cant tame an adult, but a cub isn't that dangerous(not yet).

If you raise the "bite everything that moves" out of him, you have a white lion walking with you.

[Feigro]

Well that has no reflection on how it's actually going to turn up in game. So we're just going to have to wait and see.

Who knows, it's possible you don't even tame the lion. You could just be given an adult by your superiors, that was in the "stables" (or wherever they keep them). Like being assigned a partner.

[wellsy]

Rofl, its far too dangerous to try to tame an adolescent.
The whole idea of taming a cub, is so you can raise them in a way they respect you/listen to you.
A adolescent has already grown the bloodthirstness in him, and good luck trying to tame that.

You wont survive that.
That's how the new lore says it, you cant tame an adult, but a cub isn't that dangerous(not yet).

If you raise the "bite everything that moves" out of him, you have a white lion walking with you.

How much of my post did you actually read? Yours indicates not a lot.

Very well then, I'll start again. The reason adolescents are a better choice for taming rather than cubs is primarily their utility in combat. Ever seen the Lion King? Simba gets treated as a joke by the hyenas. You want a joke as your pet, then go right ahead.

Taming an adolescent means that you can fight in combat with the lion straight away, rahter than having to wait for it to grow up.

You also, I believe, underestimate the intelligence, however rudimentary, of the lion. They respect strength, and if they know that they have been bested, then they will respect whoever has bested them. And therein lies the second reason for taming an adolescent - it implies a partnership more of equals (as stated in the overview for Chrace) rather than a master/servant or mentor/student relationship.

The third reason is that it implies greater power on the part of the White Lion himself. Being able to tame a lion by sheer force of will - who wouldn't want such strong people to be his bodyguards.

And the fourth reason I quoted for an adolescent was that we didn't want people taming a fully grown lion initially... for obvious reasons of balance (as the White Lion gets more powerful, he can tame older and older lions).

Now, having read that Eltair, do you understand where I'm coming from? The danger is supposed to be there; somehow, I'd imagine you to be the one to hold back a knight who wants to face a peril saying "No, it's too perilous!"

So please don't be so dismissive. I answered every point you made (and answered them again here).

Reading an argument in full is your friend

[ChosenOne]

Who has ever said that White Lions HAVE to start with a lion? Its a major part of what they are and an experience someone should go through. The first 10 ranks are tier 1 and are the beginning of the character. If you look at tier 1 gear its pretty basic and nothing special which signifies this is the growing portion of the character that turns them into a hero.

If a white lion character has a chance to find and tame a cub before rank 10 so it can grow into adolescence after rank 10 then I dont see how that isnt in line with the character but actually adds to it and makes it better.

Squig herders dont get all their squigs at the beginning they get the most basic at the beginning. So why not equal that with the white lion by having the white lion grow and become more powerful? Squig herders seem to have to quest to get their squigs, wouldnt it be fair that a white lion high elf has to do the same?

[Aeldor]

How much of my post did you actually read? Yours indicates not a lot.

Very well then, I'll start again. The reason adolescents are a better choice for taming rather than cubs is primarily their utility in combat. Ever seen the Lion King? Simba gets treated as a joke by the hyenas. You want a joke as your pet, then go right ahead.

Taming an adolescent means that you can fight in combat with the lion straight away, rahter than having to wait for it to grow up.

You also, I believe, underestimate the intelligence, however rudimentary, of the lion. They respect strength, and if they know that they have been bested, then they will respect whoever has bested them. And therein lies the second reason for taming an adolescent - it implies a partnership more of equals (as stated in the overview for Chrace) rather than a master/servant or mentor/student relationship.

The third reason is that it implies greater power on the part of the White Lion himself. Being able to tame a lion by sheer force of will - who wouldn't want such strong people to be his bodyguards.

And the fourth reason I quoted for an adolescent was that we didn't want people taming a fully grown lion initially... for obvious reasons of balance (as the White Lion gets more powerful, he can tame older and older lions).

Now, having read that Eltair, do you understand where I'm coming from? The danger is supposed to be there; somehow, I'd imagine you to be the one to hold back a knight who wants to face a peril saying "No, it's too perilous!"

So please don't be so dismissive. I answered every point you made (and answered them again here).

Reading an argument in full is your friend

Perhaps you should read your own advise chap.

The problem here is that you are arguing from a logic point of view, while Eltair is arguing from a fluff point of view.

It quite clearly states in the fluff that once a White Lion gets past a certain stage in its development in the wild it becomes a lost cause. The High Elfs consider it not worth the time/effort to capture it, and will kill it out of hand. The whole point of the High Elves taming the beasts is to prevent them from becoming bloodthirsty animals; something that invariably happens due to the area/species (I forget the given reason). Waiting until they have grown into adolescents is not so much dangerous to the capturer, but it is more risky that the lion is already too far gone.

Sure, the lion would be more capable a combatant after a few years in the wild, but its exactly this that the High Elves want to prevent. They want all its combat skills to have been taught by them. They want submission trained into it.

Logically of course it would make sense that through sheer will you could master the Lion at whatever age provided it wasn't too old, and that getting a more combat capable one is a bonus. However that just doesn't work here.

Of course, there is no guarantee that EAMythic (or whatever they are called these days) will follow the fluff to the letter, but that is how TT/Comp goes, and up to them.

Accepting that on a forum you may be misunderstanding where another person is coming from in an argument is your friend.

[Eltair Shadowblade]

How much of my post did you actually read? Yours indicates not a lot.

Very well then, I'll start again. The reason adolescents are a better choice for taming rather than cubs is primarily their utility in combat. Ever seen the Lion King? Simba gets treated as a joke by the hyenas. You want a joke as your pet, then go right ahead.

Taming an adolescent means that you can fight in combat with the lion straight away, rahter than having to wait for it to grow up.

You also, I believe, underestimate the intelligence, however rudimentary, of the lion. They respect strength, and if they know that they have been bested, then they will respect whoever has bested them. And therein lies the second reason for taming an adolescent - it implies a partnership more of equals (as stated in the overview for Chrace) rather than a master/servant or mentor/student relationship.

The third reason is that it implies greater power on the part of the White Lion himself. Being able to tame a lion by sheer force of will - who wouldn't want such strong people to be his bodyguards.

And the fourth reason I quoted for an adolescent was that we didn't want people taming a fully grown lion initially... for obvious reasons of balance (as the White Lion gets more powerful, he can tame older and older lions).

Now, having read that Eltair, do you understand where I'm coming from? The danger is supposed to be there; somehow, I'd imagine you to be the one to hold back a knight who wants to face a peril saying "No, it's too perilous!"

So please don't be so dismissive. I answered every point you made (and answered them again here).

Reading an argument in full is your friend
Your probably new to warhammer lore, considering you didn't realise i was talking from a fluff point of view.

I could reply with another wall of text, but Aeldor already did, so i'll leave it with this.

[Dastion]

In order to join the White Lions you are sent to hunt down an actual adult white lion and beat it. It's not some great big fancy battle, it's freakin bloodthirsty and vicious. Capturing and taming an adult white lion never even enters the picture. From what I read, what happens is that sometimes during this bloody fight the Elf and Lion eventually acknowledge that they are equals and form a bond. So rather than coming back to the elves with a bloody pelt he instead has a seemingly docile Adult White Lion at his side. He was only supposed to track down a white lion, fight it in hand to hand combat(or claws, as the case may be) and return with it's pelt.. in this case some of them just return with the pelt attached to the Lion.

This does seem to go against the Lore a bit, since the White Lions are typically known by the pelts they wear. But, I could also see, in a practical sense, where you send a warrior off to kill a vicious bloodthirsty White Lion and he instead comes back with an adult lion who regards him as a companion that you would still allow him entry. Either way, he's still showing himself as a White Lion, be it by wearing the pelt of a slain white lion or by fighting side by side with a beast previously thought untameable. (Though I'd use the terms master and 'tamed' loosely since this seems to imply they are companions).

Who cares if the lions are blood thirsty savage beasts that are untameable? That doesn't mean they are crazy and not capable of thought. As far as it not being "easy" to tame an adult white lion..well, I wouldn't call fighting a couple hundred pound beast with claws with your bare hands and eventually having it back down and acknowledge you as it's equal "easy".

[Konrad Siegesruf]

In order to join the White Lions you are sent to hunt down an actual adult white lion and beat it. It's not some great big fancy battle, it's freakin bloodthirsty and vicious. Capturing and taming an adult white lion never even enters the picture. From what I read, what happens is that sometimes during this bloody fight the Elf and Lion eventually acknowledge that they are equals and form a bond. So rather than coming back to the elves with a bloody pelt he instead has a seemingly docile Adult White Lion at his side. He was only supposed to track down a white lion, fight it in hand to hand combat(or claws, as the case may be) and return with it's pelt.. in this case some of them just return with the pelt attached to the Lion.

This does seem to go against the Lore a bit, since the White Lions are typically known by the pelts they wear. But, I could also see, in a practical sense, where you send a warrior off to kill a vicious bloodthirsty White Lion and he instead comes back with an adult lion who regards him as a companion that you would still allow him entry. Either way, he's still showing himself as a White Lion, be it by wearing the pelt of a slain white lion or by fighting side by side with a beast previously thought untameable. (Though I'd use the terms master and 'tamed' loosely since this seems to imply they are companions).

Who cares if the lions are blood thirsty savage beasts that are untameable? That doesn't mean they are crazy and not capable of thought. As far as it not being "easy" to tame an adult white lion..well, I wouldn't call fighting a couple hundred pound beast with claws with your bare hands and eventually having it back down and acknowledge you as it's equal "easy".

How many does it have to be said that in the High Elf 7th edition army, if a young cub is found it will be taken back and trained by them, usually for the chariots though, but could easily be made as the companion of a White Lion, perhaps given as a gift somehow. *Scratches head*

[Dastion]

How hard is it to read the most recent write up from mythic and get the hint that they aren't talking about raising a cub?

"To prove his worth, each initiate must defeat in single combat one of the fierce creatures for whom the unit is named. Sometimes a bond forms between the lion and his master, and they accept one another as equals."

Sounds suspiciously close to the situation I was just attempting to explain, eh?

[Ruinx]

How many does it have to be said that in the High Elf 7th edition army, if a young cub is found it will be taken back and trained by them, usually for the chariots though, but could easily be made as the companion of a White Lion, perhaps given as a gift somehow. *Scratches head*

Whilst your sentence makes little grammatical sense and is thus hard to understand, I think you're trying to say that the 7E HE army book "proves" that lions cubs are taken and trained by HEs, and thus all lions involved with the HE army must be taken as cubs and trained, right?

That's patently nonsense.

Just read the bit on Chrace again: "To prove his worth, each initiate must defeat in single combat one of the fierce creatures for whom the unit is named. Sometimes a bond forms between the lion and his master, and they accept one another as equals."

This directly contradicts the notion that the White Lion's Lion (lol) is "taken as a cub and trained". DIRECTLY.

[Aeldor]

Who cares if the lions are blood thirsty savage beasts that are untameable? That doesn't mean they are crazy and not capable of thought. As far as it not being "easy" to tame an adult white lion..well, I wouldn't call fighting a couple hundred pound beast with claws with your bare hands and eventually having it back down and acknowledge you as it's equal "easy".

You don't seem to get it old bean. When a White Lion reaches adulthood, to the Asur it really is crazily bloodthirsty and incapable of reasonable thought. This is why the High Elves will without fail kill them out of hand.

According to fluff it is not possible to tame an adult white lion. Not because it would be hard, but because the risk is not considered worth the reward. All adult white lions are killed. That is just the way things are! Any hunter returning with a full grown adult lion attatched by a rope to his belt would be scorned, and then forced to kill it.

Im not saying that this is how the game will take it. Just trying to point out that some are arguing Warhammer fluff here, not logic.

[Aeldor]

Whilst your sentence makes little grammatical sense and is thus hard to understand, I think you're trying to say that the 7E HE army book "proves" that lions cubs are taken and trained by HEs, and thus all lions involved with the HE army must be taken as cubs and trained, right?

That's patently nonsense.

Just read the bit on Chrace again: "To prove his worth, each initiate must defeat in single combat one of the fierce creatures for whom the unit is named. Sometimes a bond forms between the lion and his master, and they accept one another as equals."

This directly contradicts the notion that the White Lion's Lion (lol) is "taken as a cub and trained". DIRECTLY.

Fair enough, by your reckoning that is nonsense, however you are basing your argument on data that is not complete. You are judging your argument PURELY on what you have read in the WAR files. Konrad, however, is basing his opinion on the Warhammer High Elves book. This is not to say either of you are correct/incorrect, but calling an opinion that is thought out using DIFFERANT evidence 'Nonsense' is a sign of terrible ignorance.

In the High Elf army book, it specifically states that once a Lion has reached a certain age, it is considered a lost cause, and is killed out of hand 100% of the time. However if it is caught early enough, the killer instinct can be bred out of it, and it becomes a useful beast to the High Elves. It actually states in no uncertain terms that this is a rule. Young ones can be saved, but elder ones have to be killed for safety's sake.

Again, this is not necessarily how the game will take things, but that is no excuse for ignorance now is it?

[Dastion]

Again, you said they are crazily bloodthirsty and "not worth the effort to tame". This means that they ARE tameable, even if difficult. And everything you are saying is in reference to the High Elves in general, not the White Lions. It seems to me that the way Mythic is going with it is that the potential WL heads out to hunt down a lion until either it is dead or it gives up (or he dies, which likely happens most of the time).

And, for the last time, from what Mythic has said..even IF White Lion isn't a playable career, even if they are just some random NPC and some of them have pets, even if it's just something they threw up there to confuse us.. they still put out their position or 'twist' on the lore and in that vision they are clearly talking about forming a bond with the same white lion you hunted down. They clearly already know the direction they are going to go with the career (if it IS a career), and if it is, then this is how it is going to be. They aren't going to put something like that up for everyone to see and then say, "Well yes, we know we SAID that some White Lions have pets because they acknowledged eachother as equals rather than killing eachother, but instead we decided to just give you a fluffy cub for you to raise as your own.. ignore that other bit."

The whole idea behind a White Lion getting a pet is that he managed to form a bond with an animal that was thought to be beyond control.

[Aeldor]

Ok gonna step out of this argument right now, feels like its going in circles.

I'm merely pointing out fluff reasons for others arguments.I've also pointed out that there is no neccesity for mythic to follow fluff. However too many people here have decided that they are definately right, therefore discussion is worthless.

[Dastion]

I was just making attempts to point out that it is silly to keep proposing that you get your pet by raising a cub or getting given a cub. While I agree that it could have gone that way, and certainly would have been a lot less confusing, it's just now how Mythic decided to take it.

Never mind the complete inaneness of arguing over whether or not an adult lion is tamable or not. They obviously aren't referring to taming the animal directly, I'd be more likely to call it something along the lines of earning eachother's mutual respect. The lion is still vicious, but obviously it doesn't go insane or crazily bloodthirsty otherwise the species would never breed (hard to have offspring when you're crazy and kill anything that moves). So since the animals obviously have offspring we can assume that it isn't just a crazy killer and has some traits which would allow it to be an Elf's companion.

At the same time, that doesn't change the fact that Adult White Lions are, for all intents and purposes, a lost cause since even a White Lion has to fight one hand to claw in order to "tame one". If someone told the average Elf that, "Yes you can tame that lion, but you need to take off all your weapons and fight it with your hands to even have a chance, and even then the odds are that one of you will end up dead first" then what do you think they'd do? They'd just use their weapon and kill the thing outright. So, you see? It doesn't really mess with the "fluff" at all. The biggest ruffling of the fluff comes from the fact that seemingly all of the White Lions in the game will have pets rather than wearing their traditional pelts.

[Aeldor]

I was just making attempts to point out that it is silly to keep proposing that you get your pet by raising a cub or getting given a cub. While I agree that it could have gone that way, and certainly would have been a lot less confusing, it's just now how Mythic decided to take it.

Never mind the complete inaneness of arguing over whether or not an adult lion is tamable or not. They obviously aren't referring to taming the animal directly, I'd be more likely to call it something along the lines of earning eachother's mutual respect. The lion is still vicious, but obviously it doesn't go insane or crazily bloodthirsty otherwise the species would never breed (hard to have offspring when you're crazy and kill anything that moves). So since the animals obviously have offspring we can assume that it isn't just a crazy killer and has some traits which would allow it to be an Elf's companion.

At the same time, that doesn't change the fact that Adult White Lions are, for all intents and purposes, a lost cause since even a White Lion has to fight one hand to claw in order to "tame one". If someone told the average Elf that, "Yes you can tame that lion, but you need to take off all your weapons and fight it with your hands to even have a chance, and even then the odds are that one of you will end up dead first" then what do you think they'd do? They'd just use their weapon and kill the thing outright. So, you see? It doesn't really mess with the "fluff" at all. The biggest ruffling of the fluff comes from the fact that seemingly all of the White Lions in the game will have pets rather than wearing their traditional pelts.

I'm afraid again, full circle, you are missing the actually point of the argument being presented before you. The argument is thus.

In the Army Book, it specifically states that ALL, thats right ALL, adult lions are beyond redemption. Utterly beyond it. Therefore for the safety of the land the are ALL killed. However it then goes on to say that the Asur are not ones for wanton slaughter, and if they can reach a creature BEFORE it becomes an adult, they will capture it, and raise it in such a way that it does not become a violent killer.

That is as far as the argument goes. Its a statement made using evidence from one source, and is saying that perhaps this means they will only allow a cub.

Honestly, i do understand the other side of the argument. There would be no reason for mythic to have added the 'mutual respect' part if they didn't intend to alter the fluff. I however am a tabletop fan, so i will always hope for lore to take presedent.

[Dastion]

I get that you're holding to the "LAW" (Lore As Written), albeit a bit strictly. However, my point was just that it's really not so much of a stretch for the High Elven White Lions to discovered that there is a way to "tame" them through combat and to include the possibility of taming them as part of their initiation. The High Elven army book you keep referring to does seem to make it sound very generalized. Just because, at large, the High Elves consider them to be a lost cause once they reach adult hood doesn't mean that this is 100% true by any means. And, as i said, if THAT is what it takes to "tame" a white lion then really, they aren't far off with their presumption.

Again, I'm NOT telling you you're wrong. My rudeness earlier was to the people who keep saying that because of the LAW the only way to get a pet was if it was given as a cub. I and merely trying to point out that it's really not going directly against the Lore as much as people seem to think.

[wellsy]

Given that I haven't read the new HE army book, I will concede a lack of knowledge of the updated lore. However, Aeldor, Eltair, I would ask that you not be so stupid as to assume that those who haven't read the most up-to-date TT lore are nubs. I have been on these forums for a year now, have played Warhammer TT (as High Elves) for the last 5, and I can positively say that I'm not the ignorant twit you condescendingly refer to me as.

You never even tried to consider where I was coming from. As Dastion has quoted, the lion can respect the strength of an elf who bests it, and even form a bond of (grudgingly) mutual respect. That does not imply that white lions are Orcs in white fur, but rather creatures of a rudimentary intelligence, much like an Ellyrian horse (they say it's better to kill an Ellyrian's brother than his horse - not quite the lore nub now am I?).

Perhaps our misunderstanding lay in the basic lore that we were going off - I (and Dastion) were using the EA Mythic lore posted on Chrace, while you were using the TT lore from the 7th Ed. Army book (which, as I said, I am yet to read... but I want to... lots and lots of DRAGONS :D). Therein lies the misunderstanding, and perhaps I was being to optimistic to expect that you would be able to see that (yes - it's my turn to be condescending :cool:).

Anyways, I stand by the idea that you tame an older lion rather than a cub; utility, sheer kickass-ness, and the lore thus far revealed on the matter of the game all support it (in my opinion... or do I need to put that in bold neon lights?).

Or maybe we should just agree to disagree? But then, we wouldn't be able to have such fun being so condescending to each other. Rp-debates can be such fun! :p

[BallsOfSteel]

"Sometimes a bond forms between the lion and his master, and they accept one another as equals."
What the crap? As far as I know, the White Lions got their name because they killed said lion and wore its pelt. From the TT High Elves army book, the White Lions didn't gain acceptance until they slew the lion and brought its pelt back to wear as the cloak. So why would they make the White Lions have said lions as pets? That seems very odd and, well, kinda meh. Why make one of the fiercest fighters the High Elves have to offer weak enough to NEED a pet to be effective? I dislike that idea, personally.

[shotgunbadger]

What the crap? As far as I know, the White Lions got their name because they killed said lion and wore its pelt. From the TT High Elves army book, the White Lions didn't gain acceptance until they slew the lion and brought its pelt back to wear as the cloak. So why would they make the White Lions have said lions as pets? That seems very odd and, well, kinda meh. Why make one of the fiercest fighters the High Elves have to offer weak enough to NEED a pet to be effective? I dislike that idea, personally.

A) He really doesn't need the pet, not in lore terms, in gameplay yea, he will.

B) It's been said that either 1) you kill the mom/dad and take it's cub, or 2) you kick the daylights out of one and it goes "ok I follow you now since you proved your worth". Both of witch are enough to show the power White Lions want.

[Aeldor]

What the crap? As far as I know, the White Lions got their name because they killed said lion and wore its pelt. From the TT High Elves army book, the White Lions didn't gain acceptance until they slew the lion and brought its pelt back to wear as the cloak. So why would they make the White Lions have said lions as pets? That seems very odd and, well, kinda meh. Why make one of the fiercest fighters the High Elves have to offer weak enough to NEED a pet to be effective? I dislike that idea, personally.


The lore is altered in the latest version of the High Elf army book. In it they now only kill adult lions. If they can capture a young one before it vecomes too savage they will do, and raise it in such a way that it is no longer a threat.
White Lion soldiers still have to slay an adult Lion to become a White Lion.

[Aeldor]

Given that I haven't read the new HE army book, I will concede a lack of knowledge of the updated lore. However, Aeldor, Eltair, I would ask that you not be so stupid as to assume that those who haven't read the most up-to-date TT lore are nubs. I have been on these forums for a year now, have played Warhammer TT (as High Elves) for the last 5, and I can positively say that I'm not the ignorant twit you condescendingly refer to me as.

You never even tried to consider where I was coming from. As Dastion has quoted, the lion can respect the strength of an elf who bests it, and even form a bond of (grudgingly) mutual respect. That does not imply that white lions are Orcs in white fur, but rather creatures of a rudimentary intelligence, much like an Ellyrian horse (they say it's better to kill an Ellyrian's brother than his horse - not quite the lore nub now am I?).

Perhaps our misunderstanding lay in the basic lore that we were going off - I (and Dastion) were using the EA Mythic lore posted on Chrace, while you were using the TT lore from the 7th Ed. Army book (which, as I said, I am yet to read... but I want to... lots and lots of DRAGONS :D). Therein lies the misunderstanding, and perhaps I was being to optimistic to expect that you would be able to see that (yes - it's my turn to be condescending :cool:).

Anyways, I stand by the idea that you tame an older lion rather than a cub; utility, sheer kickass-ness, and the lore thus far revealed on the matter of the game all support it (in my opinion... or do I need to put that in bold neon lights?).

Or maybe we should just agree to disagree? But then, we wouldn't be able to have such fun being so condescending to each other. Rp-debates can be such fun! :p

Heheh fair play, if you actually looked at what was written I was merely substantiating the suppositions of the fella above you, not actually directly attacking your ideas. The ignorance of which i spokeis not ignorance of the lore, it is the ignorance that you imply anyones opinion that is not yours is nonsense.

But that is by the by, and achieves little.

I agree with you for the record, i imagine we will be given a White Lion at a slightly older age, probably an adolescent. However, unlike you, i would like this to not be the case.

I can see the military benefit to having a full/near grown lion at your side, as opposed to a cub, but the disregard of the lore is a little too much for me (even tho the lore is...well...not even around yet :P) I howerver, love the idea that you would get a young lion, and train it up yourself. It would add a lot more character to the pet in my mind.

Please bare in mind that at every occasion what i am saying is my opinion, and therefore not neccesarily the correct/true thing. I would like a cub. That doesnt mean i think someone who disagree's is an idiot.

I do however think that a person who utterly disregards anothers opinion purely because it disagrees with theirs IS an idiot.

[Dastion]

Are you subtly trying to call me an idiot? Reread my posts, I never disregarded your statement anymore than you disregarded mine. My posts are simply me trying to take A (the lore) B (mythic's recent views on it) and show you that, C..they CAN match up and that is silly to, in turn, disregard someone's post because you equate a phrase from the army book that they wrote in general passing so as to make the rearing of white lions possible (i.e. so they can have them for chariots and the like), to meaning that it is absolutely impossible to tame an adult white lion and that they are some sort of, as the earlier poster put it quite well, "orc covered in fur".

The only time I was directly rude or condescending was to the person who rudely, and rather badly, wrote to me:

"How many does it have to be said that in the High Elf 7th edition army, if a young cub is found it will be taken back and trained by them, usually for the chariots though, but could easily be made as the companion of a White Lion, perhaps given as a gift somehow. *Scratches head*"

And all I did was turn around his exact phrasing on him and show him that he, apparently, doesn't read the first post of threads or even care what the thread is about.

As far as any arguements with you yourself are concerned I was simply pointing out where you seemed to be embellishing the lore or translating it more strictly than it was meant. You went from saying that High Elves (as a race in general, not specifically the white lions who might have a different view) considered them a lost cause, then you called them "beyond redemption". And, this is the part i was most trying to counter,

"When a White Lion reaches adulthood, to the Asur it really is crazily bloodthirsty and incapable of reasonable thought."

As I, and others, have already pointed out, they obviously are not crazily bloodthirsty and incapable of reasonable thought, otherwise there would be no need to hunt them down because they would just die out naturally. So, I apologize if I came off as rude or disregarding your opinion, but, then again, perhaps you should reevaluate your opinion and, while you're at it, see if the book really does spend so much time talking about the white lions to call them all of the things you did.. I seriously doubt, "crazily bloodthirsty and incapable of a reasonable thought" is in there. They are in fact probably extremely feral and I doubt they are very friendly to anyone but their mates/cubs, and this fact alone could result in the High Elves wanting to kill them, what if they murder anyone anything else. This just makes the whole concept much more interesting. Not only does the White Lion fight this vicious killer with his bare hands, but he earns a grudging respect and loyalty from it. To be a White Lion do you not need to be as viscious as one? That's the whole point of bringing back the pelt and wearing it, no? So it's only slightly different to bring back the whole lion and have it as your companion.

[wellsy]

Heheh fair play, if you actually looked at what was written I was merely substantiating the suppositions of the fella above you, not actually directly attacking your ideas. The ignorance of which i spokeis not ignorance of the lore, it is the ignorance that you imply anyones opinion that is not yours is nonsense.

But that is by the by, and achieves little.

I agree with you for the record, i imagine we will be given a White Lion at a slightly older age, probably an adolescent. However, unlike you, i would like this to not be the case.

I can see the military benefit to having a full/near grown lion at your side, as opposed to a cub, but the disregard of the lore is a little too much for me (even tho the lore is...well...not even around yet :P) I howerver, love the idea that you would get a young lion, and train it up yourself. It would add a lot more character to the pet in my mind.

Please bare in mind that at every occasion what i am saying is my opinion, and therefore not neccesarily the correct/true thing. I would like a cub. That doesnt mean i think someone who disagree's is an idiot.

I do however think that a person who utterly disregards anothers opinion purely because it disagrees with theirs IS an idiot.

That entire post was pretty much there (to repeat myself) and answer his question. Simply put, he didn't actually consider the lore I was basing my position on, and so it indicated that he didn't read very much of my post.

That we disagree on this matter is something I respect. But to dismiss something as off-handedly as Eltair did is nothing short of insulting. He called up the new lore regarding white lion cubs, but I do think that he (and you) take a very pure view of the creature. Perhaps an adult lion cannot be tame enough to draw a chariot, but who's to say that their bloodthirstiness can't be contained. And raising the lion so that it isn't as aggressive, actually, kinda gimps it.

And Dastion, calm down. He was referring to our little contest of condescendence.

So now Dastion, shall we unleash the lions on the little cubs ;)?

[Aeldor]

Wow...that all really got out of hand :P


Problem here is that we're arguing from differant sides, using differant sources for our inspiration. Difficult to find a middle ground in a discusion between fanboys perhaps :) (Mocking myself as much as everyone else for the record, dont overly want to rile people up more than i already have)

On one side we have myself, who has read that past childhood, the Lions are [considered by the Asur] completely beyond any chance of redemption. I will admit to being something of a lore nazi, to those who havent already realised it.
On the other hand are others who have read the Mythic version which states 'sometimes a bond is formed between Lion and Elf'. These are looking for middle grounds. Admirable, but still doesnt solve the issue of a person trying to explain their own take on the lore.

Personally, (not saying you are wrong in any way guys, as ive tryed to stress the entire time ive discussed this. this is merely how I would like things) I would like Mythic to stick to this part of the fluff, as to me it is an important part. I like the idea that the adults are so viscious that the Asur, with heavy hearts, are forced to put them down. Its important to me because the High Elves are (it is stressed in the new army book, and regularly throughout fluff) not ones who give in to wanton slaughter. If there is ANY chance they can redeem something, they will take it. I am also a fan of the idea that you as a character could start as a White Lion Initiate, and sometime in the first tier you head out for your Pelt quest. During the course of this you could Kill a Lion, skin it, and discover its cub near the mother/father, capturing it and taking it home with you. This could then imprint or whatever, and could become your pet. It could grow in age every tier, starting off as fairly useless, maybe a dot/growl affect, and becoming a fullgrown lion by tier 4.

And, ehm, seem my condescention may have crept in due to Ruinx's post tbh, apologies if it showed up since then, but he supported your view, so...yanno. Calling someone's opinion nonsense riles me up :P

[Eltair Shadowblade]

Meh, as long as they still get a fur cloak, I suppose i won't have a problem with it.

However...They NEED their shiny cloak..

[Aeldor]

Heh im becoming convinced that just to mess with us they'll give us generic Chracian hunters, not White Lions, now.

An Elf with an axe, and a lion at his side, but with no pelt. Kinda like He-man, only slightly less .

[Ruinx]

Fair enough, by your reckoning that is nonsense, however you are basing your argument on data that is not complete. You are judging your argument PURELY on what you have read in the WAR files. Konrad, however, is basing his opinion on the Warhammer High Elves book. This is not to say either of you are correct/incorrect, but calling an opinion that is thought out using DIFFERANT evidence 'Nonsense' is a sign of terrible ignorance.

No, it's not. We've seen that the only evidence 100% relevant to WAR, so far, is what Mythic say on their site. I'm quoting Mythic. Konrad is quoting some random- army book. That's lovely for him, but it's not "ignorant" of me to put it aside, unless you're using "ignorant" to mean something entirely different from what it does in English.

[Aeldor]

No, it's not. We've seen that the only evidence 100% relevant to WAR, so far, is what Mythic say on their site. I'm quoting Mythic. Konrad is quoting some random- army book. That's lovely for him, but it's not "ignorant" of me to put it aside, unless you're using "ignorant" to mean something entirely different from what it does in English.

I'm using it to mean that disregarding someone purely because he disagree's with you makes you an idiot. Your take on some words and his take on some words can be an entirely differant thing, coloured by upbringing, nationality, a whole bunch of things. Calling his idea 'nonsense' shows you up as a fool.

Disagree with him, thats fine, but calling his opinion nonsense, especially when you are mistaken [from the point of what he was actually arguing] is pathetic.

[Hnul]

Totally gonna name my pet Aslan.


Dear god :shock: Don't do it man! There are other ways! :(

[Eltair Shadowblade]

Heh im becoming convinced that just to mess with us they'll give us generic Chracian hunters, not White Lions, now.

An Elf with an axe, and a lion at his side, but with no pelt. Kinda like He-man, only slightly less .
I would hate mythic forever if they would do that :-]

[Konrad Siegesruf]

Are you subtly trying to call me an idiot? Reread my posts, I never disregarded your statement anymore than you disregarded mine. My posts are simply me trying to take A (the lore) B (mythic's recent views on it) and show you that, C..they CAN match up and that is silly to, in turn, disregard someone's post because you equate a phrase from the army book that they wrote in general passing so as to make the rearing of white lions possible (i.e. so they can have them for chariots and the like), to meaning that it is absolutely impossible to tame an adult white lion and that they are some sort of, as the earlier poster put it quite well, "orc covered in fur".

The only time I was directly rude or condescending was to the person who rudely, and rather badly, wrote to me:

"How many does it have to be said that in the High Elf 7th edition army, if a young cub is found it will be taken back and trained by them, usually for the chariots though, but could easily be made as the companion of a White Lion, perhaps given as a gift somehow. *Scratches head*"
I apologise deeply if i in anyway insulted you. I may just have seen it been pointed out several times before, making me a little bit frustrated... Sorry. :oops:


And all I did was turn around his exact phrasing on him and show him that he, apparently, doesn't read the first post of threads or even care what the thread is about.

As far as any arguements with you yourself are concerned I was simply pointing out where you seemed to be embellishing the lore or translating it more strictly than it was meant. You went from saying that High Elves (as a race in general, not specifically the white lions who might have a different view) considered them a lost cause, then you called them "beyond redemption". And, this is the part i was most trying to counter,

"When a White Lion reaches adulthood, to the Asur it really is crazily bloodthirsty and incapable of reasonable thought."

As I, and others, have already pointed out, they obviously are not crazily bloodthirsty and incapable of reasonable thought, otherwise there would be no need to hunt them down because they would just die out naturally. So, I apologize if I came off as rude or disregarding your opinion, but, then again, perhaps you should reevaluate your opinion and, while you're at it, see if the book really does spend so much time talking about the white lions to call them all of the things you did.. I seriously doubt, "crazily bloodthirsty and incapable of a reasonable thought" is in there. They are in fact probably extremely feral and I doubt they are very friendly to anyone but their mates/cubs, and this fact alone could result in the High Elves wanting to kill them, what if they murder anyone anything else. This just makes the whole concept much more interesting. Not only does the White Lion fight this vicious killer with his bare hands, but he earns a grudging respect and loyalty from it. To be a White Lion do you not need to be as viscious as one? That's the whole point of bringing back the pelt and wearing it, no? So it's only slightly different to bring back the whole lion and have it as your companion.

Problem is, good friend, that this would rob them of their iconic cloaks, as Eltair has pointed out. The adults are of course not "crazily bloodthirsty and incapable of a reasonable thought", but it has been stated that it's almost impossible to tame an adult(No one seems to have done that so far, unless it get's changed), which is why the solution with finding a cub after slaying the mother/father, or being given a trained young lion as companion when arriving with the pelt of the slain lion, just seems to make more sense with me :|.

[Ruinx]

I'm using it to mean that disregarding someone purely because he disagree's with you makes you an idiot. Your take on some words and his take on some words can be an entirely differant thing, coloured by upbringing, nationality, a whole bunch of things. Calling his idea 'nonsense' shows you up as a fool.

Disagree with him, thats fine, but calling his opinion nonsense, especially when you are mistaken [from the point of what he was actually arguing] is pathetic.

So you're calling me an idiot and a fool, is that right?

[Aeldor]

If the hat fits.

[Baradun]

gah, I wish i wasn't faction bound with my guild already! Shadow Warriors have always topped my lists in lore, and White Lions aren't half bad either. :???:

My guild would hunt me down, shave my beard and send me into Orc teratory for them to point and laugh at me if I went "elf" heh. Not that thats ever gonna happen, pets just arent my flavour. unless its barbequed squig, get lots of them after our guilds Engineer regiments torn through orc country, bit chewey but it beats dried bread.

[Archangel-WHA]

Guys. You've lost your right to continue this thread.

Don't troll. There's really no point.

I bring you darkness