Making Bets

[Dracallo]

Im certian this class will be annouced in Novembers news letter!

[Sindal]

you sir, are a genius =p

[Kaid]

But what position this class will hold I wonder. That's the big issue.

[Cale]

Hrm....a pure DPS to match the BW??

[Selendor]

Hrm....a pure DPS to match the BW??

Or a drain based nuker/healer, to match the Archmage?

[Cale]

Its possible....but DEs seem to be matching Empire mechanics - except for tanks of course. That's the theory anyway.

[Selendor]

Its possible....but DEs seem to be matching Empire mechanics - except for tanks of course. That's the theory anyway.

lol, we know 2 of the Dark Elf careers, and one of them isn't similar to the Empire career at all. So because the Witch Elf mirrors the Witch Hunter, the remaining 2 careers have to mirror the Empire careers as well?

That's a serious stretch, especially considering the direct parallels argument fell apart when we found out that High Elves are getting a melee pet class.

[Gemini]

Its possible....but DEs seem to be matching Empire mechanics - except for tanks of course. That's the theory anyway.

How do you figure? I'm glad we agree on tanks, so let's leave that out. All we are left with is melee DPS. How are the Witch Hunters anything like the Witch Elves? Dual-wielding knives with poison, frenzy, and "elixers" to a rapier and a gun, with maybe a torch or holy water and whatnot. I don't see it...

And hell, even if they were really similar, you think they are matching it based one on class?

[Rivers]

How do you figure? I'm glad we agree on tanks, so let's leave that out. All we are left with is melee DPS. How are the Witch Hunters anything like the Witch Elves? Dual-wielding knives with poison, frenzy, and "elixers" to a rapier and a gun, with maybe a torch or holy water and whatnot. I don't see it...

And hell, even if they were really similar, you think they are matching it based one on class?

Frenzy and Confession is usually the parallel drawn between the Witch Hunter and Witch Elf. The holy water and whatnot is mostly aesthetic.

[Cale]

How do you figure? I'm glad we agree on tanks, so let's leave that out. All we are left with is melee DPS. How are the Witch Hunters anything like the Witch Elves? Dual-wielding knives with poison, frenzy, and "elixers" to a rapier and a gun, with maybe a torch or holy water and whatnot. I don't see it...

And hell, even if they were really similar, you think they are matching it based one on class?

I don't want to hijack this thread, so I won't agrue the points here, but since people asked....

The "theory" I was eluding to was from CrazyOlDude's post here: http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showpost.php?p=512779&postcount=395

Look at the graphics on the links. It is the best list of pairings I have yet seen. It is somewhat speculation, but no more than any other theory and I have yet to find a problem with it.

This doesn't mean that Mythic can't just do whatever they want and change the last few racial pairs, but that isn't the direction they seem to be going.

And as Rivers pointed out, the mechanic WEs and WHs share are their "build-up" finishers. The posion, holy water, etc is mostly flavor. Again....there are for sure other differences between the classes, but they at least share part of their core mechanics.

[Barundin162]

Greenskin/ Dwards (Magical Support, Physical RDPS)
Empire/Choas (Magical Support, Magical RDPS)

So far the other two pairings have matched....so most liekly so will HE (Magical Support, Physical RDPS) and DE

Magical Support: Archmage, Sorceress
Ranged DPS: Shadow Warrior, some kind of Shade, Corsiar, or otherwise Xbow wielding person (no Beastmaster as Destruction already have a Pet Class and another would make things uneven, as as seen above and elsewhere, Mythic likes things even...

[Cale]

This fits the pattern of high-damage low survivability dps (BW).

[Ayetalam]

I still find it interesting how, day after day we tell them that it will be like this. Male Sorcerers and then them being Ranged DPS. When they finally say it is, they find the slightest nitpicking for it to be their way. Calm down already, its already been decided and shown.

[Emeraldw99]

I still find it interesting how, day after day we tell them that it will be like this. Male Sorcerers and then them being Ranged DPS. When they finally say it is, they find the slightest nitpicking for it to be their way. Calm down already, its already been decided and shown.

We are not positive but I agree, it is very likely to be DPS.

[Ayetalam]

We are not positive but I agree, it is very likely to be DPS.

Eh, I'm positive. Like in the other post, where I posted after you. They are just nitpicking and trying to hold onto the last shred of hope that their precious lore will not be broken and that GW will never change, alter, and progress their lore.

[Syr]

This fits the pattern of high-damage low survivability dps (BW).

BW <-> Magus

[Garok]

Pretty sure this is how its worked out balance wise.



Tanks
Black Orc - Swordmaster - Combo Points
Kotbs Sun - Chosen - Aura Buffs/Debuffs
Iron Breaker - Black Guard - Gains power from damage to Allies/Self

Mele DPS
Chopper - Hammerer - Scaling Damage
Witch Elf - Witch Hunter - Combo Points
Marauder - White Lion (?) - 1 Wep - Claw/Pet provides special attacks.

Ranged DPS
Sorc - Bright Wiz - Extreme Damage - True Glass Cannon
Magus - Shadow Warrior - Ranged Damage - Anti Mele abilities
Squig Hurder - Engineer - Utility - Static/Mobile Pets

Healers
Shammy - Arch Mage - DD/heals
Zelot - Rune Priest - Gtaoe Buffs/Debuffs
DE Healer(?) - Warrior Priest - Mele Healer

[Arkane]

It IS the Dark Elf Ranged DPS. End of story.

[Alota]

Arkane;555680']It IS the Dark Elf Ranged DPS. End of story.

Untill Mythic says so themselves it's still anyones guess ;)

[Arkane]

Untill Mythic says so themselves it's still anyones guess ;)
You could say that or you could put two and two together. Do you honestly think they would create a healer that kills himself if he uses his better abilities? It would be far too unreliable and it would be much easier if it were a ranged dps. Not only that, but healing was never talked about in the video. We can do it this way, seeing as this thread was about bets:

If it is support, I will delete this account and never post on this site again, committing myself to only lurking.

If it is ranged, then you refer to me as genius from now on and you can not play as a dark elf, or destruction for that matter.

See how confident I am?

[Alota]

Arkane;556577']You could say that or you could put two and two together. Do you honestly think they would create a healer that kills himself if he uses his better abilities? It would be far too unreliable and it would be much easier if it were a ranged dps. Not only that, but healing was never talked about in the video. We can do it this way, seeing as this thread was about bets:

If it is support, I will delete this account and never post on this site again, committing myself to only lurking.

If it is ranged, then you refer to me as genius from now on and you can not play as a dark elf, or destruction for that matter.

See how confident I am?

Do what you must, I'll still play the sorceress, but what you can never do is taking away my right to speculate ;)
And isn't it strange he doesn't say 'SHE'S THE RANGED DPS CLASS FOR THE DARK ELVES' which at most other classes he did tell the classrole ;)
Like I said, it's still anyones guess untill he confirms it. There's still a chance you got it wrong, and when there's a chance that you can get it wrong, even though it's small, you'll still guess untill it's fully confirmed

[Dastion]

The absence of evidense is not the evidense of absence... right? I seem to remember that being on a certain forum moderator's sig...

...and yet that mod was so adamant against these discussions, so much that he locked a very good thread based on a photoshopped image.

Am I bitter? Yes. I expect a certain degree of respect from forum mods regarding valid discussions. Funny how the people who think that it could be support are so willing to admit that it is likely RDPS, but that we still think we have a right to point out the fact. Yet those who think it is RDPS stamp on any attempt at discussion we make and stubbornly refuse to see reason.

[Ayetalam]

The absence of evidense is not the evidense of absence... right? I seem to remember that being on a certain forum moderator's sig...

...and yet that mod was so adamant against these discussions, so much that he locked a very good thread based on a photoshopped image.

Am I bitter? Yes. I expect a certain degree of respect from forum mods regarding valid discussions. Funny how the people who think that it could be support are so willing to admit that it is likely RDPS, but that we still think we have a right to point out the fact. Yet those who think it is RDPS stamp on any attempt at discussion we make and stubbornly refuse to see reason.

Its not only a mod, its the admin of the site to top it off. Also the RDPS fanboys are like that because its so blatently clear to a point where a website administrator of an official fansite makes a chart putting them in there and then locking a topic with it. Seems dead obvious of what the role is.

[Alota]

Its not only a mod, its the admin of the site to top it off. Also the RDPS fanboys are like that because its so blatently clear to a point where a website administrator of an official fansite makes a chart putting them in there and then locking a topic with it. Seems dead obvious of what the role is.

Not really, as the Admin isn't always right as he doesn't work for Mythic. Only Mythic knows the truth and they choose when to bring it out (and apparently they haven't yet)

[Ayetalam]

Not really, as the Admin isn't always right as he doesn't work for Mythic. Only Mythic knows the truth and they choose when to bring it out (and apparently they haven't yet)

But there is a chance Garth could have some kind of communication channel with Mythic, and he might have personally asked for the information. You never know, lots of things happen in the background that we dont know about.

Like that Witch Elf over there that is aching to dice me up into little pieces and savor them slowly. Xurré Im on to you *twitchy stare*. (that reminds me of that crazy german guy that actually did it in rl.)

[Arkane]

He is the only mod to make a post on it and nobody from Mythic tried to correct him either. They are the first link from their official site under fan sites, so I doubt they would allow him to post false information on topics like this without somebody coming here and explaining. If they confirm that it is indeed the Dark Elf Ranged DPS will you stop complaining that he locked the thread?

[Dastion]

If he did know for a fact then he wouldn't claim the problem was "solved" and then later say it was just speculation. And if they are wanting to keep us questioning do you really think they would correct someone a few days after the newletter came out? They aren't going to go against their marketing plans because one forum admin overreached his bounds and made claims that speculation were fact.

If he did have any such insider information he would be under an NDA and not able to release any information not already previously released by Mythic.

[Arkane]

If he didn't know he wouldn't have locked the thread. He could also say it was speculation due to NDA. This is no longer a discussion and this thread should be done with for the time being as well.

[Alota]

Arkane;559139']He is the only mod to make a post on it and nobody from Mythic tried to correct him either. They are the first link from their official site under fan sites, so I doubt they would allow him to post false information on topics like this without somebody coming here and explaining. If they confirm that it is indeed the Dark Elf Ranged DPS will you stop complaining that he locked the thread?

Nope, then he should've said at the lock that he got info from Mythic, and he didn't. And here he also said it was his assumption, not that Mythic told him the archtype. If Mythic did tell him and he'd lock the threads, he would tell us he got the info, because I don't think Mythic would complain if he told us what they told him because Paul is being vague again.

[Dastion]

Arkane;559144']If he didn't know he wouldn't have locked the thread. He could also say it was speculation due to NDA. This is no longer a discussion and this thread should be done with for the time being as well.

Your logic makes little sense. If he is under an NDA and therefore calls his knowledge speculation (I'm sure the forum admin for the top WAR forum is in beta anyhow), then he could NOT lock a post because he has to present it as speculation. By calling it speculation and then presenting it as fact and locking a thread to "prevent misinformation", he would be breaching an NDA by verifying something Mythic has not yet released.

Based on the facts, and not assumptions that Garth has insider info with Mythic and can, apparently, speak for them on issues not publically confirmed. It seems that Garth, like many others, simply believed that because it did not say "heals" that it wouldn't be a healer. Rather than listen to our arguements and take part in the discussion he first, made a statement inwhich attempted to derail the discussion and then later posted an obviously unofficial archetype spread and closed the topic based upon it.

[Arkane]

Like I said, only time will tell who was right and who was wrong. I am confident it is and will be the Ranged DPS for the Dark Elf.

[Dastion]

Arkane;559159']Like I said, only time will tell who was right and who was wrong. I am confident it is and will be the Ranged DPS for the Dark Elf.

But do you admit that we have a right to speculate based on the evidense? That's my biggest issue here, being practically barred the right to discuss the topic. Many of the RDPS fanatic's responses have been downright insulting and rude. Refusing to even discuss the subject despite the more evidense we pile up in our favor. Garth's actions alone were a huge smack in the face, I never expected it. In fact, ever since that post I assumed he was correct..that's the power an admin has with statements like that. I gave up my arguements because of Garth and conceeded to being wrong..just to find out that it was merely speculation presented in the form of fact.

[Arkane]

Oh no, I have never been against you guys speculating, that is what message boards are for. I am just convinced for multiple reasons that this IS the ranged dps.

[Gilead]

Paul would have mentioned the ability to heal in the podcast, would he not? He mentions casting death spell after death spell but no healing. Out of all the information we have, the Sorcerer does not heal, I don't see why that is hard to understand.

It's just common sense, no need to get offended by what people say.

[Gemini]

You know, no matter what way this turns out, I bet Mythic people are having a great laugh over this right now. Either:

"Look how many people jumped to the conclusion that Sorcs are ranged DPS! The annoucement of Sorcs as support will blow their minds away! Muhahahaha!"

Or:

"Hahahah, how can they still believe Sorc will be support after Paul's description? Do we have to spell it out for them?" In which case the answer is obviously; yes, yes you do Mythic.

[Cale]

Wow, I can't believe this is still even under discussion. Everyone has the right to his/her own opinion - *but* at some point you just start to look foolish and lose all credibility when you deny the obvious facts to support your opinion.

[Xilbalba]

Wow, I can't believe this is still even under discussion. Everyone has the right to his/her own opinion - *but* at some point you just start to look foolish and lose all credibility when you deny the obvious facts to support your opinion.

Well I think the problem is that the "facts" point to rdps, but they are not in any way conclusive since Paul, that cheeky ;), didn't actualy say the magical words. So even though some see it as an absolute, others still see space for debate which is why it's still under discussion.

It probably will remain so until they come out and say Ranged dps and place her icon on that neat little chart they have or another rdps or healer comes out as the 4th class. So far be it to call anyone foolish for grasping at straws after seeing this small sliver of hope.

[Ranti]

*EDITED for content*

[Ranti]

Wow, I can't believe this is still even under discussion. Everyone has the right to his/her own opinion - *but* at some point you just start to look foolish and lose all credibility when you deny the obvious facts to support your opinion.

Your facts are opinions
Your Opinion is null


We are all speculating, pure and simply.

you do remember that paul totally neglected to mention healing in the Zealot video, we wouldn't of known it was a healer except he said "THE SUPPORT ARCHTYPE FOR CHAOS!!!!", this is in fact, i think, the first video where the classes archtype wasn't made plainly obvious

[Ranti]

Paul would have mentioned the ability to heal in the podcast, would he not? He mentions casting death spell after death spell but no healing. Out of all the information we have, the Sorcerer does not heal, I don't see why that is hard to understand.

It's just common sense, no need to get offended by what people say.

wrong, wrong, wrong... (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/wrong,%20wrong,%20wrong...)

Minus actually saying "He is the Healer agressive spell caster (i.e Support archtype)" he doesn't mention healing once

sorry you lose

[Browncoat-WHA]

Hey folks.

I'd like to remind you of this post:

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showpost.php?p=553064&postcount=17

and this post:

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showpost.php?p=559352&postcount=51

I really have to say, I've been pretty clear about how people should be discussing this understandably hotly debated topic. Yes, the pot has been stirred by quite a few individuals. However, please note that the multiple lines of discussion open about this topic are, for the most part, still open.

Seriously, I've seen enough potshots being fired amongst the lively discussion and valid posts. I appreciate the passion folks, but it's respect that should be consistent.

And I plan on doing everything I can to keep it that way.

I hope you'll help with some productive posts and less of the "haha I'm right" or "oh noes I hates it" type posts that have no real substance.

[Gilead]

wrong, wrong, wrong... (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/wrong,%20wrong,%20wrong...)

Minus actually saying "He is the Healer agressive spell caster (i.e Support archtype)" he doesn't mention healing once

sorry you lose
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7rKpJuf7dU - Zealot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7rKpJuf7dU)
"The Zealot is the healer"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HDpy4t3BfE - Archmage
"Healer Magic Caster"

Does the Sorcerer podcast mention healing? Does it call him a healer? No.

[Dastion]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7rKpJuf7dU - Zealot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7rKpJuf7dU)
"The Zealot is the healer"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HDpy4t3BfE - Archmage
"Healer Magic Caster"

Does the Sorcerer podcast mention healing? Does it call him a healer? No.

I think the point is that it's a well known fact that Paul tends to under emphasize the healing role. I mean, as they've said many times..every career is capable of holding their own in a fight, some just happen to be able to support their party.

[Gilead]

I think the point is that it's a well known fact that Paul tends to under emphasize the healing role. I mean, as they've said many times..every career is capable of holding their own in a fight, some just happen to be able to support their party.
Under emphasize means that he leaves it out completely? Do you really think the people who manage the podcasts and developed the class would let him skip out on the part about supporting and healing? Come on.

[YajoojMajooj]

Paul would have mentioned the ability to heal in the podcast, would he not? He mentions casting death spell after death spell but no healing. Out of all the information we have, the Sorcerer does not heal, I don't see why that is hard to understand.

It's just common sense, no need to get offended by what people say.

i second that ........... totally agree with u m8

[Ranti]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7rKpJuf7dU - Zealot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7rKpJuf7dU)
"The Zealot is the healer"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HDpy4t3BfE - Archmage
"Healer Magic Caster"

Does the Sorcerer podcast mention healing? Does it call him a healer? No.

He also mentioned in the Shadow Warrior, Squig herder, engineer, Magus, bright wizard videos that those classes where RDPS, apply the same standard, he didn't mentioned it either way

In those videos, he is just stating the archtype, he FAILS to do that in the sorc video, therefore we have NO clue what she is, since all classes have damage, and some on this forum have mentioned, this mechanic may be counter productive to a Soft RDPS class but could be a useful way to force a healer into a healthy balance of heals and nukes

[Ranti]

i second that ........... totally agree with u m8

the fact is that there is a high chance that he wouldn't mention they heal, he could of mentioned that they are a healer archtype...but he rarely talks about, "AND THEY CAN HEAL OMGZ"

i would like everyone on the "sorc IS Rdps, how can you guys question this" camp to use the same standard for both arguement, you will find that their is equal evidence to support it either way