Slayer mechanic

[Emud]

I dont know if slayers are actually coming to the game, but I've seen some hints about it.

I was wondering about what their mechanic would be like if they do?

Would'nt it be cool of they were low armour, but very high mele dps. Real duel masters. And since they are supposed to seek death would'nt it be cool if their mechanic made them stronger the lower health they had?

[Katar]

No it wouldn't be cool.

What Order really needs is a highish armour and good DPS career, something that is inbetween a tank and a MDPS. What we don't need is more easily killed extremely high damage careers. We already have to put up with pets on one our MDPS careers so we need a hardy MDPS with a good/popular mechanic.

[Fop]

Well I think they could function something like an Everquest 1 monk - be a durable MDPS, but without the ability to be a genuine "tank".


As for the mechanic, whilst the nearer death one would be fun, I think it would be very hard to implement and balance. I suspect it would more likely end up being something more like a traditional "rage" system.

[Crave]

they should be implemented as a meta class like the original lore says. every dwarf can turn into a slayer - keeping its class defining abilitys more dmg orientated but sacrifice defense for the dmg increase.

[TheStraw]

they should be implemented as a meta class like the original lore says. every dwarf can turn into a slayer - keeping its class defining abilitys more dmg orientated but sacrifice defense for the dmg increase.

Or...you could just equip your IB's 2H Axe and respec for damage.

Dwarves don't need a melee DPS class.

[Tlear]

Savage mechanic from DAOC. Perfect fit!

You can sacrifice health to buff yourself, damage, attack speed, parry, resists.. can convert health into AP. Weapon attacks based around positional chains. Savage was one of the msot fun mdps to play in DAOC, just take that mechanic and copy/paste it to WAR

Personally I still hope for Hammerer

[Durok Irontoes]

No it wouldn't be cool.

What Order really needs is a highish armour and good DPS career, something that is inbetween a tank and a MDPS. What we don't need is more easily killed extremely high damage careers. We already have to put up with pets on one our MDPS careers so we need a hardy MDPS with a good/popular mechanic.


Like the Slayer, which is more popular then the Hammerer.

If EQ2 can come up with a effective light armor tank like the monk then, Mythic can come up with heavy dpser who isn't squishy.

[Grondoth]

Or...you could just equip your IB's 2H Axe and respec for damage.

Dwarves don't need a melee DPS class.

Too bad, we're getting one just like everyone else.

[Emud]

Could someone explain why dwarves dont need a melee class?

As i understood it each race should contain 4 classes of the following types

Healer/support
Tank
Ranged dps
Melee dps

If dwarves dont need a melee dps, which type do they need then?

The high armour high dps seems like wishful thinking to me. Both tank and melee dps. Besides I think it is wrong to look at dwarfs only. The races are meant to complement eachother. So the real question would be what order needs.

[Fop]

Could someone explain why dwarves dont need a melee class?

As i understood it each race should contain 4 classes of the following types

Healer/support
Tank
Ranged dps
Melee dps

If dwarves dont need a melee dps, which type do they need then?

The high armour high dps seems like wishful thinking to me. Both tank and melee dps. Besides I think it is wrong to look at dwarfs only. The races are meant to complement eachother. So the real question would be what order needs.


They do, I think that other post was supposed to be a "Ironbreakers kill everything lolz" post or something.

Not only do Dwarfs need a MDPS, but Order needs some balance in that department as a whole.

[Gerrok]

Slayers are going to be med armor DPS (kinda like how marauders have "medium armor"). I don't see them making the choppa/slayer light armor, since they need to go straight into the action.

Their actual mechanic will probably be the same as it was before. Hit things, rage goes up. You get a damage boost with rage for all your attacks, or you can burn rage to do special attacks. Kinda like how the black guard is, minus the tankyness (with a whole lot more damage).

[Hammbone]

I assume both will be Berserker classes, IE: some sort of build up mechanic, Perhaps Something similiar to the Bright Wizard/Sorc. mechanic with a base Damage Bonus instead of Crit. %. So the more you Hit the more base damage you do.

As far as a medium armor dpsr, we have one alrdy its called the White Lion, It unfortunate the class just doesn't get the player Love hehe. Thats not to say they won't have some kind of survivability mechanic. Like say Evasion or active damage reduction abilities ( Example Choppa/Slayer frenzy of Impending doom: 5,10,15% damage reduction for 10 seconds based on current frenzy level)

Course I'm probably all wrong but its fun to Dream.

[ynnen]

Rather than rage building up as they dish out damage, a more appropriate ability would be a frenzy mechanic that builds up as their health depletes. The more damage they take, and the less healthy they have left, the more damage they can dish out...

As they get closer to fulfilling their Slayer's Oath and death wish, they could mete out massive amounts of damage, or possibly have abilities refresh faster, or have abilities use less AP, or a mix of each.

Now that would be a fun tightrope to walk.

[Rvard]

Rather than rage building up as they dish out damage, a more appropriate ability would be a frenzy mechanic that builds up as their health depletes. The more damage they take, and the less healthy they have left, the more damage they can dish out...

As they get closer to fulfilling their Slayer's Oath and death wish, they could mete out massive amounts of damage, or possibly have abilities refresh faster, or have abilities use less AP, or a mix of each.

Now that would be a fun tightrope to walk.
Except it would be terrible. Mechanics that rely on sacrificing health for massive damage always are. The Slayer mechanic should be some sort of a berserking/frenzy, similar to that of the Choppa. Of course the Slayer should have some tactics and maybe a skill or two that circle around the concept of "low health = more damage", but an outright mechanic is a big no-no.

[Rok]

Too shamed to live too proud to lose, the Slayer gains strength as his health slips away. Bolstered by the knowledge that soon he will die, he still wishes to take as many of the dwarves ancestrial enemies as he can with him into death.

That's how I'd do it anyway, some kind of damage increase based on his current health. Works for the mirror class too, some kind of Orc-based frenzy.


Edit: ynnen beat me too it. ;p

[Moritz Fremdjager]

I wouldn't want to see Slayer's get a flat damage increase to their abilities when their health falls.

I'd like to see them get a lower Global Cool Down and lower AP cost when they lose health.
And a lower Cool Down on some abilities that have CD's.


That would be equivalent to more damage, a lot more fun, and I think easier to balance.

[ArkenMox]

i hope its something similar to a BWs in that its a build up system, the more you attack the bigger it gets, but instead of a chance to take damage it reduces your resists and armour, so if you run around with it at full you will do a shed load of damage, but at the cost of being squishier.

[ArkenMox]

I wouldn't want to see Slayer's get a flat damage increase to their abilities when their health falls.

I'd like to see them get a lower Global Cool Down and lower AP cost when they lose health.
And a lower Cool Down on some abilities that have CD's.


That would be equivalent to more damage, a lot more fun, and I think easier to balance.

whole point of a global cool down between abilities is that it is the same for everyone.

[GreatBeard]

No it wouldn't be cool.

What Order really needs is a highish armour and good DPS career, something that is inbetween a tank and a MDPS. What we don't need is more easily killed extremely high damage careers. We already have to put up with pets on one our MDPS careers so we need a hardy MDPS with a good/popular mechanic.

Otherwise known as a vengeance spec Ironbreaker

[LordHidious]

1. Why make a career mechanic out of Growing Instability (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8442). Just give the tactic to the class

2. The Hammerer/Choppa mechanic => Morale
Would you like to have to morale bars?

3. Each side needs one more MDPS...Hell, Greenskins have 2h BOrks and Stabbity SH. Then They definetly do not need a new MDPS career. But guess what, they are getting it, 'cause little boys cry they want Choppa and Slayer.

For now, there is no news about how Mythic intends to implement the naked emo suicidal greasehair dwarf into the game. For now we dont even know if it will be slayer.

I still say: BREWMASTERS FOR THE NEW DWARF MDPS CLASS!!! GETTING DRUNK AS A MECHANIC, HELL YEAH!!!

[Odro]

1. Why make a career mechanic out of Growing Instability (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8442). Just give the tactic to the class

2. The Hammerer/Choppa mechanic => Morale
Would you like to have to morale bars?

3. Each side needs one more MDPS...Hell, Greenskins have 2h BOrks and Stabbity SH. Then They definetly do not need a new MDPS career. But guess what, they are getting it, 'cause little boys cry they want Choppa and Slayer.

For now, there is no news about how Mythic intends to implement the naked emo suicidal greasehair dwarf into the game. For now we dont even know if it will be slayer.

I still say: BREWMASTERS FOR THE NEW DWARF MDPS CLASS!!! GETTING DRUNK AS A MECHANIC, HELL YEAH!!!

1. They can build around that idea and make it more of a mechanic.

2. The Hammerer/Choppa had "Morale" mechanics that would build up the more they fought, it wasn't the same as the Morale bars that we have now. The Hammerer's "Morale" bar was called Momentum and I can't recall what the Choppa's was.

3. Yeah, and those are the little cryin' boys that pay for the game so Mythic has to appease them or lose some customers.

4. They're not emo, you just don't understand them.

I still say: BREWMASTERS FOR THE NEW DWARF MDPS CLASS!!! GETTING DRUNK AS A MECHANIC, HELL YEAH!!!!

This is a T rated game and I don't think parents would approve of their kids getting piss drunk in game all the time.

[Warmaster tibs]

Most ideas I do not like here.

I would prefer the old hammerer mechanic compared to alot of this. Course I never got to play a hammerer or choppa but I am pretty sure it could fit the bill. I would name it "Oathbound" or something.

I would give the Slayer low armor value with tatoos taking the slots mainly giving stat/resist buffs. Naturaly higher wounds and toughness then tanks. A tank would be have say 800 wounds, a slayer would have 900 to make up for their near 0 armor value. Slayers would be able to duel wield either axes/hammers and 2h axes(Not sure on 2h hammers).

Either way whatever dwarf mdps we get I am playing it. Dwarfs only 2nded by Empire.

[Rvard]

Just give them a regular berserking/frenzy type mechanic, similar to the Choppa. They can have tactics/skills that revolve around the idea of lower health = more damage, but an entire mechanic around it would be stupid. It never works.

[Queeble]

Sorry if it has been mentioned, but how about the lower the opponents health, the higher of a frenzy the slayer would get in? For example...

80 - 100% = 5% chance to crit, 5% chance to proc an additional hit.

60 - 79% = 10% chance to crit, 10% chance to proc an additional hit.

40 - 59% = 15% chance to crit, 15% chance to proc an additional hit.

20 - 39% = 20% chance to crit, 20% chance to proc an additional hit.

1 - 19% = 25% chance to crit, 30% chance to proc an additional hit, each successful attack heals for 5% of health (not applied to 'extra' attacks)

Additional attacks cannot proc additional attacks.

of course balance might be needed.

[Ronulf]

I hope when they announce the Slayer and Choppa, it will be a straight forward melee dps.
I mean i like the WL, but the pet, which i thought i'd play the WL because of, turned out to be more of a hassle than help. Also i like WH's, in fiction (never played TT) but the stealth.. meh. (they should have given WH's hounds and kept the WL a solo class)

What im really hoping for with the Slayer and Choppa (alternatively Hammerer, tho i doubt mythic will make that mistake), is a straight forward melee character.

If it must have a mechanic, give them something akin to combustion/ dark magic/ hate...

Basically something that increases your potential the longer the char is in combat. No stealth, stance or other "gimmic", we have enough of those classes already.

I really like the hate mechanic, (not being dependant on an oath friend and no stance dance or auras) just beating people and getting tougher while you do it.

Something thus is what Slayers/Choppas should get.

[lindhsky]

I think the Slayer will help Order to get some more people even if on our server we have a pop balance that is good. But I heard that order have less on most servers and the Slayer will probably make people re-roll. I think I would anyway. :)

One of the biggest whines on our server forum is that order have less AoE disables and if I understood it right then the Hammerer had a lof of knockdowns so maybe the hammerer is a better class for Order? Of course they could give this to the Slayer as well.

If they put the Slayer in the game then I hope that if they implement a system were the more you get hurt the more damage you do, then I hope they still do good damage without being hurt. If they use the sorcerer/BW system with dhar/combustion, then we casters do pathetic damage with 0 in it and that wouldn't be good for a melee-dps to rush in and have to build up their frenzy before doing good damage.

I rather see the Slayer as a class that does insane damage with some sort of berserk-mode that also makes them extremely vulnerable vs different types of damage depending on which mastery path you choose. And it shouldn't be on a too long cooldown. Maybe even a stance?

Let say if you're in berserk-mode you do a lot of damage to heavily armored classes but are very vulnerable to magic if you choose one mastery path. Maybe you do extremely high damage to casters and have silence and so on in one path but are instead vulnerable to physical damage while berserking. And so on.

A lot of rambling here, it's late... :)

[The Vig]

The way I see it the hypothetical (yet very hopeful) Slayer/ Choppa pairing should use a grudge/ hate style of mechanic. The more you fight, the higher your mechanic value builds which allows you to use abilities that spend your mechanic points. Much in the same vein as IBs and BGs.

[Phated]

The major problem with slayers gaining damage as they lose health (at least with that being their main mechanic) is that in PvE situations where they shouldn't be getting hit, their damage would be horrendous compared to other classes. With a tank, they would have no way of lowering their health and therefore no way of increasing their damage output or using their main mechanic at all. I wouldn't mind seeing it as a minor addition to whatever their main mechanic ends up being, but it shouldn't be a large increase and their damage output certainly shouldn't rely on it or you're limiting them to being a PvP class that nobody is going to want to bring along to any sort of PvE group.

I think the general concensus is that there's nothing wrong with a buildup mechanic of some sort. IE: The longer they fight the harder they hit. There have been a pretty wide range of ways to actually implement it, but I think something along those lines is what most people are suggesting.

[Emfren]

yea the mechanic is actually Momentum, basically they grow stronger the longer they are in battle, but it has nothing to do with hitting other people or being hit, like the Hate and Grudge mechanics, respectively. It's sort of like rage in a way, and abilities will open up as you gain more momentum.

[Dragonspear]

I agree that the lower health = higher damage mechanic is interesting, in theory it won't work, especially in solo pve as previously stated. I say keep it simple with a the IBs grudge mechanic. Longer they are in battle, they build of grudges or slayer oaths, which increases the damage they do and opens up new abilities.

[Thraxen]

stop wishing for slayers, aint gunna happen

[Tholdalf Snowbeard]

I hope when they announce the Slayer and Choppa, it will be a straight forward melee dps.
I mean i like the WL, but the pet, which i thought i'd play the WL because of, turned out to be more of a hassle than help. Also i like WH's, in fiction (never played TT) but the stealth.. meh. (they should have given WH's hounds and kept the WL a solo class)




No.. just no.. white lions trains and fights with lions according to lore and witch hunters are stealthy even more so then witch elfs who are more like frenzied fighters that charges into battle.

[Brynduraz]

2 ideas

1) I would like to see the slayer's skill damage double every time they use THAT SKILL during a battle. So the game keeps track of the skill you have used. Generic attack 1 hits for 10 damage then when you use it again its base damage is doubled to 20.... (not counting dodges, ripostes, etc) Then when you use a 3rd time it is doubled again to 40, then 80 then 160, etc etc. When you leave a battle (ie start losing your morale by fleeing or when the battle actually ends) the numbers reset to base damage

There could be a cap on the progression so slayers were not insane during 30 minute battles. .. I think a good way to do this would be to make the slayer's multiple target AoE type attacks drain all his counters so all his skillz get reset to based damage. Once he has met the cap with one of his single target attacks then he is locked out of all single target attacks and has to use his multi target attack, flee, or maybe some other mechanic before he can start building up again.



2) IF they must have fury mechanic, I would like to see the slayer with a type of "reactive fury"

perhaps this would only be availbile when the slayer has maxed out their fury mechanic OR only when the slayer's fury is low (a way to build up their fury and also prevent them from being focused fired early)

Make this ability something that is not a straightforward attack, but instead gives them a 10 second timeframe where any damage that is dealt to the slayer is also reactively done to the opponent player who caused the damage. (a bit like the WH riposte proc which i know nothing about)

IMO this would help order deal with the problem of stacking pits of shade (which dont seem to be going away) AND would be a nice slayer type dps burst that we would expect. IT would also give slayers a reason to get into the thick of battle early instead of waiting on the edge while their "rage" (and morale skills) build up.

This reactive proc could be tinkered with so it does not become OP.... for example maybe heals to the slayer are 50% less effective for those 10 seconds... or maybe it causes an automatic death or 95% health lost after those 10 seconds.


Mostly i am just excited to hear there is a MDPS on the horizon!

[Graenma]

Here is more understanding on how the low health increased dmg idea could work if they based it off of an idea they had in their other game.

It wasn't low health = increased dmg.
It was increasing damage (or something else) at the cost of lowering your health.

The idea is that the Slayer would start a buff that would increase their dmg and at the same time would cost them health when the buff duration ended. The other game had buffs that lasted for approx 20 seconds ( I can't remember now).

Example. I start a fight I buff my dmg and attack speed. at the end of 20 seconds the buff ends and I lose 20% of my current health or total health (10% for each active buff) however you choose to implement it.

Some buffs could be defensive and some offensive. (Resist Inc, Armor Inc, Parry Inc, Dmg Inc, Attack Speed Inc, Crit Chance Inc, etc.)

That way in PvE if you never get hit you can still buff yourself and it will still cost health, but it isn't determined by how close you are to no health.

[Deathain]

Don't maurauders get some sort of increased crit chance the more damaged they are?

Wouldn't slayers get something similar?

[Quixote]

The idea of a Melee Combustion mechanic works better than sacrificing health for damage, I feel. Sacrificing health for damage provides less flexibility to the class, and I feel would require less skill (you'd just pop as many of the buffs as you can afford, whereas with a combustion mechanic you'd have to shift between low and high combustion on the fly using various abilities to maximize damage and defense), and be less engaging. Shedding health just doesn't provide enough actual control to the player, I feel.

Increasing crit chance for and against seems like the easiest way for this to work. I'd prefer a flat damage increase, but I don't know how people feel about that. In the back of my mind I think there's a reason why a flat damage increase wouldn't work, anyone have any ideas? Unless someone can think of a reason why flat damage wouldn't work, then let's assume it'll be flat damage. You'd lose an equal amount of defense for the offense you gain, E.G. 25% Crit for 25% less Crit protection.

I'm gonna call the mechanic Rage, just because it's easy and makes sense. The Slayer would have Rage building attacks, Rage neutral attacks, and Rage shedding attacks. Rage building attacks would do the most damage (260ish at R40), but obviously not be spammable except in certain situations unless you feel like dying fast, Rage neutral would be slightly lower than the current standard damage hit of the medium armor MDPS (200ish at R40), and Rage shedding attacks would do about the same damage as most tank attacks, but would also provide a moderate defensive buff (112ish at R40).

Mastery trees could be broken down to weapon choice, but if anyone has any more interesting ideas, let me know. Great Weapon, Dual Wielding, and Utility. I guess we could also think about DD, DoT, and AoE as possible focuses, but that's already been done. If someone could be really creative and spice these up, I'd appreciate it.

With this much control over their durability, Slayers and Choppas would be able to both be that middle ground between offensive tanks and White Lions and still have functional damage when it's needed. I don't think this'd be overpowered, because they can't be both at the same time. It's like a tank switching in the Focused Offense tactic, or Divine Fury.

[Proximo]

Slayers - Deathwish mechanic
builds like the BGs Hate and is spent on very powerful abilities that also are a bit dangerous to the Slayer as well. Like x ability does a lot of damage and is a 100% crit, but makes the slayer x% more susceptible to crit for y seconds.

Choppa - Frenzy mechanic
builds the same way, the more you chop things the more frenzy you go, increasing some stats while lowering others, think +crit, +movementspeed, +dmg etc and -parry, -resist/tough, etc.

Basically the longer they fight the more furious damage dealers they will be, but at the same time the easier they will be to bring down.
Might be totally impossible to balance and whatnot, have not put a lot of thought into it admittely, but it sounds cool lol :P

[Ahlet]

No it wouldn't be cool.

What Order really needs is a highish armour and good DPS career, something that is inbetween a tank and a MDPS. What we don't need is more easily killed extremely high damage careers. We already have to put up with pets on one our MDPS careers so we need a hardy MDPS with a good/popular mechanic.
QFT

TBH the perfet mechanic would be the aura mechanic, but triggered in the same way as the IBs self and oath friend buffs. Seeing the slayer fight boosts your allies and brings fear to your enemies. Simple as that.

Mastery trees:
Orcslayer - Straight up damage, offensive buffs, great weapon
Elfslayer - Finnes and buffs (ie. CC, DoTs and buffs), two weapons
Daemonslayer - Something in between, but with a pounce and a speed boost

BO/SM mechaninc could also work:
normal state --> Enraged --> Frenzy
with the rank 4 core morale being Constant frenzy (being in state of frenzy for 10sec)

[Zaagazug]

Actually - I do not really care about the mechanic as such as long as the new MDPS career has:

- Medium armour/defense
- Melee AE dmg moves
- Frontline AE CC (to be on par with Destruction - if CC goes down in the game so do these abilities of course)

Basically the marauder function on the Order side (not mechanic but function).

[Kustho]

I am sorry to disapoint everyone here...

...I think it is possible that the Slayer will be included, Slayers are the only Dwarven Class that is really 100% from Warhammmer Universe, if I am not mistaken. But...nobody can tell you for sure...am I right ? Discussing how they would be played and how they would work seems...a bit too early.

What we can all agree on, is that IF the Slayer class would be included, everyone would play one. I even heard of Destructionplayers who would start again on Orderside just to play one. And thats the reason why they wont be included imho.

When they included the Knight, I remember of Szenarios filled with ONLY Knights, everyone and his brother was playing one...the same thing, but in 100 times worst would happen if a Slayer would be included.


Do Dawi need a MDPS or is an IronBreaker with a 2H Weapon doing the job ? I think Ironbreakers should go with Shield, having a 2H weapon just for special occasion, so yes a Dawi MDPS is needed.

[The Bard]

Well, i must say, there are some damn cracking ideas coming out of this thread. Bring more, more ideas I say.

I was going to explain my own slayer mechanic here but i'll just link to the whole design thread just to avoid repeating myself:
http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211353

Never be afraid to bring an idea forth, lads. I especially like Brynduraz' first idea, I'd never seen a mechanic like that before. Escalating Agression, i'd call it.

[Jabberwok]

I like the idea of the Rage mechanic. I played a Brute in City of Villains and they used something similar, although their power scaled up far too quickly (triple damage with every attack with a full rage bar, and they had melee aoe's that could wipe whole parties). Regardless, it was a very fun mechanic. I like getting stronger the longer I stay in the fight. The idea of increasing power based on health remaining is not a good mechanic. In theory, it's appealing and fits the flavor of the Slayer perfectly (as does Rage), but it would be useless for questing, as your wounds would likely never get low enough to make any difference. It would be useless for instances or pq's, since ideally the tank will be taking most of if not all the damage. Its utility would be sporadic at best in rvr, where as an mdps class your general state of being is either unhurt or focus fired into the ground.

[Jabberwok]

stop wishing for slayers, aint gunna happen

I really like the title of this forum.

[The Vig]

stop wishing for slayers, aint gunna happen
I'm afraid sir that an eloquently voiced "neener neener neener" is in order here.

[Grayle]

Screw gimmicks, straight up durable pwnage is what we need. All Order has now is a paper cannon and an elf.

[Sutr]

well.. for all it's worth the only thing i'd hate to see on slayers is the flee button.. slayers don't flee... ever.

[Gretha]

well.. for all it's worth the only thing i'd hate to see on slayers is the flee button.. slayers don't flee... ever.

Well, if we are talking about an meaningless and unworthy but certain death,
caused laughable enemys that have infinite numbers?

imho no one wants to redeems himself by dyeing as a snotling Slayer......

[Rvard]

well.. for all it's worth the only thing i'd hate to see on slayers is the flee button.. slayers don't flee... ever.
No, but they can retreat. Why die anonymously before a swarm of beastmen, when you can live to another day and die fighting a daemon? Don't forget that all Slayers want a meaningful death. This is portrayed numerous times in the Gotrek&Felix novels.

Edit: d'oh, beaten to it by a clansdwarf.

[The Bard]

These lads have the right of it.
Again, Gotrek sets an example with his avoidance of men armed with crossbows because being pincushioned from afar is no fitting doom for a slayer.

Incidently, being pincushioned from afar is a pretty likely doom for all our future slayers here with all the Squig Hearders all over the place.

[Fanatical Flagellant]

I predict a reversal of Marauder and White Lion.

Slayer will be = AoE melee dmg with Knockdowns (or if your unlucky, knockbacks)

while Choppas will be more like White Lions, Single target dps.

There, case closed. :p

[Necrolic]

I'm pretty sure that Slayers will be a low armor high DPS class. Just look at what the majority wear in photos from the lore. They wear no shirt (tattoos I'm assuming would be upper body armor ingame), pants and the occasional bracers.

As for the mechanic, I'm really not sure.

[Rvard]

I'm pretty sure that Slayers will be a low armor high DPS class. Just look at what the majority wear in photos from the lore. They wear no shirt (tattoos I'm assuming would be upper body armor ingame), pants and the occasional bracers.

As for the mechanic, I'm really not sure.
So Mythic is going to break their 1 Heavy, 1 Medium, 2 Light per racial pairing rule and give a non-stealth career light armor?

There are a multitude of reasons why the Slayer can (and most likely will) be medium armor. I guess since Slayer replaced the Hammerer who was daubed in metal armor has caused a sort of tunnel-vision to people thinking that if the replacing career is not in similar outfit, it can't possibly be of similar armor value. Right? Wrong

How about we look to the other careers. Marauders are bare-chested (Like the Slayers) but still count as medium armor. Hell, look at this guy; http://i44.tinypic.com/30awaqw.jpg
He has arguably even less armor than the Slayer NPCs, yet he is treated as a medium armor career. White Lions aren't exactly covered in gleaming metal either. They almost look like they sport less armor than a Witch Hunter..

Hurf Durf, Slayers can't be medium armor.

If someone still keeps barging in without reading the previous posts in the future, i'm just going to post that picture of the Marauder and then a Picture of an NPC Slayer so the point goes across.

[Gunbeard]

i like the idea of the hate building mechanic or even the momentum but what i would also like to see implemented as the mechanic or maybe just a tactic would be the slayers acuall mechanic in the original TT game which was the chance to boost there strength to equal of the opponents toughness making them do more and making them an effective tank killer which is needed it seems. and maybe to show them not wanting to die from spells make it so after the first of a spell hits them it raises there resistance of that spell by half of the damage of the spell but the buff granted cannot exceed 50% of the slayers resistance to that spell. like if they had 900 corpreal resist and the spell did 1000 damage they would get an increase of 450 corpreal resist for a certain amount of seconds at which point it would fade and the effect cant proc from the same resistance type for like 5-10 seconds after the buff fades to add balance. I dunno i think at least the str buff equal to toughness thing would be nice since it is in the TT game. Also anyone who says slayers break lore because of them seeking a glorious death are idiots. Nothing makes me more angrey to read then that when a prime example of how to deal with that is to give them another oath. An example in warhammer lore would be the slayer king of karak Kadrin Ungrim Ironfist. He inherited the oath from his father when he failed to fufill it and died some unknown way. "Torn between his two conflicting vows, the oath of a Slayer to seek out death and the oath of a king to watch over and protect his people". So he is not aloud to die in vain for fear of breaking the other oath. So if the slayers get a new oath like the one to purge the realm of chaos or what not it allows them to be revived and it works with Rp reasons since no dwarf would fail there kind.

[Grayle]

Or we can use the argument that being zerged to death or beaten by mobs isn't exactly glorious, so they get ressed.

Or we could say that ressing doesn't exist in Warhammer proper, because then no one would ever die. But in, say, a videogame, it's an acceptable mechanic.

[Aakthur]

Savage mechanic from DAOC. Perfect fit!

You can sacrifice health to buff yourself, damage, attack speed, parry, resists.. can convert health into AP. Weapon attacks based around positional chains. Savage was one of the msot fun mdps to play in DAOC, just take that mechanic and copy/paste it to WAR

Personally I still hope for Hammerer

This please...i loved my savage :p

[Cress]

What would be cool imo-

Armor - Medium
Weapon - 2h or Dual Wield

Mechanic - 1-100 point Fury/Rage or whatever you want to call it. Builds steadily during combat, and you can spend points on certain abilities. (Kinda like Hate/Grudge). Only you dump all your built points on big attacks (or self buffs) and the effects and damage scale per point. There would be builder styles too, to grant somewhat faster buildups. A passive damage increase effect would also be present to balance dumping the mechanic and holding on, say 1% per 4 Fury/Rage (like DM/Combustion).

Level 10 MDPS ability (equivalent to Charge/Stealth) - Berserk, increases damage and auto-attack speed by 25% for 10 seconds. 30 second cooldown.

Level 40 MDPS ability (equivalent to Self KB/Pull, to give MDPS more tools to do their job in standoffs) - Ignore Pain, heals the Choppa/Slayer for 20% of their wounds, and grants a 5 second buff. If the Choppa or Slayer's hp is reduced to 0 with this buff up, death will be delayed until the effect is over, allowing them to fight and move for the duration. 30 second cooldown.

Actions - Attacks would be centered around positionals, conditional attacks, and style chains. Positionals would include the traditional back/front/side positional, and then maybe also stuff like "usable while in air". Conditionals like parry reactionary, or target blocks, etc. Style chains self explanatory.

Would be fairly straight forward with pretty good survivability. The attacks themselves would probably have low tooltips, but the damage increases would add up for decent burst every now and then, especially if you have good positioning and reaction time.

[Ileth]

I think the best mechanic would go under DAMAGE TAKEN building a meter of "anger" to use to deal damage or boost himself.....oh well....it is the hate mechanic XD
Just instead of the hits taken or given it goes for DAMAGE taken, it would force players to be in middle of the battlefield and healers to heal the dwarf, Just hope ti does not transmute in the first months of BWs pocket healers.

[Wiggletphyre]

So Mythic is going to break their 1 Heavy, 1 Medium, 2 Light per racial pairing rule and give a non-stealth career light armor?

There are a multitude of reasons why the Slayer can (and most likely will) be medium armor. I guess since Slayer replaced the Hammerer who was daubed in metal armor has caused a sort of tunnel-vision to people thinking that if the replacing career is not in similar outfit, it can't possibly be of similar armor value. Right? Wrong

How about we look to the other careers. Marauders are bare-chested (Like the Slayers) but still count as medium armor. Hell, look at this guy; http://i44.tinypic.com/30awaqw.jpg
He has arguably even less armor than the Slayer NPCs, yet he is treated as a medium armor career. White Lions aren't exactly covered in gleaming metal either. They almost look like they sport less armor than a Witch Hunter..

Hurf Durf, Slayers can't be medium armor.

If someone still keeps barging in without reading the previous posts in the future, i'm just going to post that picture of the Marauder and then a Picture of an NPC Slayer so the point goes across.

Armor doesnt realy have anything to do with it armor, it has to do with thoughness as a person, I mean if your a girly witchelf that useses her "assests" to distract enemys when she goes stabbity stab stab, Or a sissy Witch hunter who likes to burn Old ladys at the stake just because they have a Black cat, A hit is going to hurt a lot more then when your a Obsessed Marauder fighting to get recognised by your god by not showing weakness or Pissed off Slayer Kicking some because you just got dishonored and your sure as hell going to get it back.

[ManCaptain]

Why are 80%+ people in this topic noobs who are suggesting mechanics which would raise DPS as Slayer loses health? It's completely wrong.

MDPS needs frontloaded damage. It needs to do highest damage right off the bat. Witch elves have this mechanic, for instance where they get AP cost reduction for the first dozen seconds after their opener, then if they don't get the kill in first 20 seconds AP runs out and they generally don't get the kill at all.

Mechanic that raises damage as they lose health is completely wrong choice for MDPS. It enables people to detaunt and ignore the MDPS until enough players have 5 seconds of free time so they burst him down fast, making the period of time of increased damage really short.

There already is a similary mechanic in the game, IronBreaker grudge. The more you hit iron breaker or his oath friend, the more grudge he has, and harder his abilities hit.

It works great. He is a tank, has survivability and the longer the battle drags on, the more damage he does.

Slayer will be MDPS. MDPS needs to get main damage spike out right off the bat(well in the first 10 seconds). The mechanic where they would get more damage with less health just gives people more time to get some healer assistance. Not to mention it makes them much easier to burst. I wouldn't want to stroll around with 50% of full HP for 50% more damage. That's just asking for someone to kill you in 2 hits(any ranged class with double damage morale for instance).

Bad suggestions all around in this thread.

No wonder it took people half of a year to catch up on how broken resists are(and 75% of population still stacks wounds over all other stats).
Bad playerbase is bad.

[Xaxas]

Savage mechanic from DAOC. Perfect fit!

You can sacrifice health to buff yourself, damage, attack speed, parry, resists.. can convert health into AP. Weapon attacks based around positional chains. Savage was one of the msot fun mdps to play in DAOC, just take that mechanic and copy/paste it to WAR

Personally I still hope for Hammerer

Exactly what I was thinking.

Dunno if the chains and conditionals would fit for slayer but self buffs for health sound great.


Basically to expand on the idea so non DAOC players understand, the savage in daoc was a light tank class in daoc that could activate VERY powerful self buffs for 25 seconds or so, and when they ended he took damage (5% per buff, stackinga ll the buffs could result in 25% health lost). Since he had barely any armor on, he had very high evade and parry, with both buffs up he'd have 25% parry, and around 40% evade (due to light tank bonuses, he'd get more then 25% evade just from his buffs).

Another mechanic of the savage is that they could attack two to four times in the same swing, kind of like windfury. The way the savage played in addition to the self buffs was that he worked off Parries/Evades. When he evaded/parried something he could a counter attack move which would be followed up by 2 more abiltieis that had great side affects (for example, you evade, you attack and do an armor debuff, then you could do an attack that hits 3 additional people, then you could an attack that hits 4 additional people). He also had positionals that also led to chains.

[Varking]

If we are going to get a gimmick it better not suck like my Rune Priest one.

[Darkane]

I'd love to see slayer in the game, it would be a fantastic career to put in. I will most likely play one myself. But, like everyone else is saying...Order needs a durable/steady/constant good MDPS career. We have a WL/WH, the only thing I find myself doing with both careers is ganking squishes. Im hoping that Slayer/or Hammerer will be able to do AE DPS/hold its ground...But my question is, if we all agree on having that...Or the most of us. How the heck can a Slayer be the character to look to? Live to die, practically armorless, etc....I just cant see this happening without Mythic twisting our look on the Slayer, and adding to the lore. Whatever way, Im looking forward to playing the Dwarven MDPS. And, Im praying that it will have the mechanic type of a Marauder along those lines. Because we need it....:D

[Volumax]

Whatever the mechanics, a career tactic or core ability that increases Slayer damage when their health is below a certain percent (20 maybe) would fit in perfectly with the lore considering they seek an epic death that takes as many enemies with them as they can.

[Haggis]

Something like http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8442?