What about guns?

[Axxar]

So I saw the podcast and I realize the shadow warrior is all about using bows. Bows, bows, bows, bows and bows, and since they're High Elves it doesn't make any sense that they'd use ranged weapons other than bows. But do you think they can use guns instead of bows?

[Chrismorris]

I very much doubt it, But hay im normally wrong on these things

[Snaga]

Hmm, i very much doubt it, since they (as far as i know(not very far)) said that all the items your recieve from... stuff, are class related and if your class says that you use bows, so then you dont use anything but bows. Bows are silly anyway. Pansy elves.

[Nunizillion]

Going along with the sort of "dwarfs wont be wearing chaos armor, or useing dark elf wepons" thing they have going, im thinking that no, HE will not use guns.

It goes along with the sort of " if it walks like a duck, quaks like a duck, smells like a duck, tastes like a duck, im prety dang sure its a duck." thing theyre going for with the races. dwarfs will look like dwarfs and use only dwarf stuff, HEs look like HEs and use only HE stuff, so no guns.

[Sethno]

Bows take skill. I wouldn't call that pansy. :D.

Anyhow, If you're looking for guns I think either the Witchhunter and/or Engineer would be a safe bet.

-Sethno

[Immortal_Spazbite]

Dwarfes - Guns
High Elves - Bows
Dark Elves - Bows & X-Bows
humies - a bit of everything
Every weapon and armor will be iconic and in reference to the whf universe.

[Selendor]

...

...


...Thoden? :-P

He knows they can only use bows, guys. He's asking if they can use guns as well. :D

[Zakiya]

Is this one of those threads where you say "I know Hammerers are called Hammerers, and I know that they use hammers alot, its all they will ever use and all they are ever going to use... But can they use axes?"

The clues in the podcast.

I love my bow.
Lets use bows.
Bow.
Bow.
Bow.
Bow.
Bow, bow, bow.

[Zunjin]

...

...


...Thoden? :-P

He knows they can only use bows, guys. He's asking if they can use guns as well. :D

If its true that he knows they can only use bows, it would follow its false that they can use guns. In either way, they are the elfs. They dont use guns. Specialy a shadow warrior which works as a scout in larger armies.

[Shadow_Warrior]

Shadow Warriors will never use guns, it would completely go against the lore.

[Vikingkingq]

No. High Elves, but this is true of the Asrai and to an extent the Druchii as well, consider guns to be noisy, unsubtle, environmentally-unfriendly, and for the most part not as good as their bows. Consider that most guns in the Old World are smooth-bore, wheel-lock, blackpowder weapons that are inaccurate, slow, have a decent chance to blow up in your face, and completely give your position away when you use them. Compare that to the elvish longbow, which is silent, has a high rate of fire, and is devastatingly accurate.

[Grrblt]

What about throwing axes?

[Eltair Shadowblade]

What about throwing axes?
Maybe the odd one out, but that will really be a rare sight to see.
They just don't keep up with the silent accuracy of a longbow

[Kopesh]

This isn't WoW. We will never see elves with guns.

[Barundin162]

HE do not like Firearms at all, in the Mark of Chaos book the HE Commander will not even allow the Empire soldiers to take thier cannons onto his ships. So no, no guns for elves...just

Bows
Bows
Bows
Bows
Etc....

[Lord Tareq]

No, not guns. However they will be able to drive MK35 tanks :cool:

[Barundin]

Choppas and blowpipes then?

[Eltair Shadowblade]

Choppas and blowpipes then?
Don't count on it.

[Vaeronthar]

So I saw the podcast and I realize the shadow warrior is all about using bows. Bows, bows, bows, bows and bows, and since they're High Elves it doesn't make any sense that they'd use ranged weapons other than bows. But do you think they can use guns instead of bows?Heh.

Long live Thoden Firehammer.

[Fusko]

Heh.

Long live Thoden Firehammer.
Was he banned for good? Or was it one of those temporary bans?

[Vaeronthar]

Was he banned for good? Or was it one of those temporary bans?
Don't know. Someone from his guild should be able to illuminate us, though.

[Axxar]

Was he banned for good? Or was it one of those temporary bans?A quick search on his recent posts gave me this (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?p=526402#post526402). I'm guessing he either wrote something wasn't very nice or something that was an NDA break.

[BeldarinSkysabre]

Off topic: Look at the post below the deleted one. It quotes some of his post.

On topic: No, no guns for Shadow Warriors.

Anyone else see a remarkable variety of weapons employed by various classes?

[Athenys]

Guns + elves are considered unfluffy as a general rule. In WFRP however you could have the odd elf use one in a pinch:

GM: Ok you are being charged by enraged troll #2.
Elf PC: I draw my bow.
GM: Erm, you don't have any arrows left...
GM: The only weapon close by is a musket laying next to a pile of firewood.
Elf PC: No true elf sullies his hands with blackpowder! I pick up a stick.

Elves may be arrogant but the more world-weary ones tend to possess some degree of pragmatism. From a realistic standpoint if you are too much of a lore purist, things start getting ridiculous. Maybe that's why I enjoyed the 'Thraxas' novels, no one behaves entirely as their race,class etc. would stereotypically dictate in that series.

[Aeldor]

Thats great and all, but the thing with Warhammer High Elves is that, despite the pretense at an alliance, most of them are still totally untrusting of the Dwarves. Blackpowder weapons are a very Dwarven thing, which would probably dissuade any Elf from using them in itself :P

[Earth Dragon]

Off topic: Look at the post below the deleted one. It quotes some of his post.

On topic: No, no guns for Shadow Warriors.

Anyone else see a remarkable variety of weapons employed by various classes?
That was a seperate post he made earlier.

[Earth Dragon]

Guns + elves are considered unfluffy as a general rule. In WFRP however you could have the odd elf use one in a pinch:

GM: Ok you are being charged by enraged troll #2.
Elf PC: I draw my bow.
GM: Erm, you don't have any arrows left...
GM: The only weapon close by is a musket laying next to a pile of firewood.
Elf PC: No true elf sullies his hands with blackpowder! I pick up a stick.

Elves may be arrogant but the more world-weary ones tend to possess some degree of pragmatism. From a realistic standpoint if you are too much of a lore purist, things start getting ridiculous. Maybe that's why I enjoyed the 'Thraxas' novels, no one behaves entirely as their race,class etc. would stereotypically dictate in that series.
Sure. In a pinch you use anything. But I don't consider a lvl 40 Elf with 80 000 gold to spare being in a pinch, so he uses a bow. I personally like a uniform look, with unique features on each toon. I hated looking like a hobo Knight in WoW becuase all my stuff was from different sets.

[Loekii]

Dwarfes - Guns
High Elves - Bows
Dark Elves - Bows & X-Bows
humies - a bit of everything
Every weapon and armor will be iconic and in reference to the [WH] universe.

I vote for staying with the iconic themes.

[Athenys]

But I don't consider a lvl 40 Elf with 80 000 gold to spare being in a pinch

Because every single elf you see is really a prince/ess out and about for the 'experience' :rolleyes:. I can see that working ingame because the current level of realism possible in MMOs is still rather low so you focus on being iconic. In traditional roleplaying you are limited only by the basic rules and common sense. If the Warhammer world was real most of your elves would NOT be landed nobility. Working class folks aren't known to be quite as impractical or particular as their socio-economic betters. They concern themselves with earning a modest living and paying their taxes. Note that wood elves are eco-hippies gone bonkers so they don't count. There may not be asur beggars (as in Naggaroth), but I am willing to bet there are some damn poor ones. As elfy as they are some asur may opt to leave Ulthuan because they see more economic opportunities elsewhere, ironic as that may seem. The most jaded and rebellious of these elves would likely carry any weapon that got the job done most effectively, if that meant a firearm so be it. If you read the old fluff there was an upper-middle class HE in Marienburg who even had a penchant for collecting antique Tilean beltbuckles, pistols and the like. Then there's that Imperial Dwarf with a pet Lesser Daemon. Yep, fun stuff indeed...

[Lord Tareq]

You even had "sea elves" back then, good times:p

But no, elves do not use blackpowder weapons, because they are unreliable. No elf will ever use a device that can potentially kill them with a misfire, its a deep psychological matter.
Obviously there are always some exceptions, but these are very, very rare.

[Athenys]

An unparalleled concern for personal safety coming from a race that spawned Witch Elves? Elves can be pretty eccentric mind you, dwarfs strike me as being even more traditional in some ways.

[Tyurion]

Specialy a shadow warrior which works as a scout in larger armies. Yea it would be good when suddenly a shadow warrior strikes from the trees his muzzle flash and loud bang making sure he is squishelated 5 seconds after firing. Guns arent for elves. I mean can u rly see elves crewing a cannon? the pansy variety would proably cry at the prospect of getting soot in their pretty clothes

[Tyurion]

But no, elves do not use blackpowder weapons, because they are unreliable. No elf will ever use a device that can potentially kill them with a misfire, its a deep psychological matter.
Obviously there are always some exceptions, but these are very, very rare.

Yea like the occasional one who ponders the secrets of what will happen if he looks down the barrel and pulls the trigger

[Gemini]

Yea like the occasional one who ponders the secrets of what will happen if he looks down the barrel and pulls the trigger

No no no, that's an orc who gets a hold of a dwarfen firearm :P

[checkthis5000]

Shadow Warriors will never use guns, it would completely go against the lore.

I'd probably stop playing if they could. That type of shite would be ridiculous.

[Tyurion]

No no no, that's an orc who gets a hold of a dwarfen firearm :P
silence you orcs dont ponder anything its just terminal curisoity

[Lord Tareq]

An unparalleled concern for personal safety coming from a race that spawned Witch Elves? Elves can be pretty eccentric mind you, dwarfs strike me as being even more traditional in some ways.

Its not personal safety itself they are concerned with, and its also not because they must hold on to traditional ways, its that they will never use unreliable equipment that can kill them when they use it, without them being able of preventing this with their own skill. So an elf would theoretically use an item that can kill them if they use it inproperly, but never an item that has a chance to kill them regardless of whether they have complete control over it and make no mistakes whatsoever.

Witch elves are not concerned with personal safety, but that doesn't mean they will use daggers that have a chance to blow up every time they stab someone. When they get killed on a mindless charge its a personal failure, and that is acceptable.

[ChosenOne]

Not to mention that lorewise shadow warriors seem to be "silent" killers. There is nothing silent about black powder firepower.

[Eltair Shadowblade]

Not to mention that lorewise shadow warriors seem to be "silent" killers. There is nothing silent about black powder firepower.
Right on the spot.
Shadow warriors are masters of guerilla warfare, striking from many places over time, but not revealing yourself.

If your using a gun, I'll give ya a 5 sec headstart.
You can just aswell channel a lightning beam from heaven:rolleyes:
(not saying thats possible, but you catch my drift)

[wis]

I want a rifle with a scope!! and camo cloaks

[ChosenOne]

I want a rifle with a scope!! and camo cloaks

Then perhaps the elven folks will gift your engineer with one of those cloaks through a quest.

:D

[Dustandpolos]

I put it half down to the fact that the Asur refuse to be surrounded by ugly things, blackpowder weapons being noisy, foul-smelling and kicking wildly, and half down to the fact that bows are just in many ways far, far better in practical terms. Rate of fire is obvious, the innaccuracy of a bow makes them much better for levies who won't be accurate anyway but make trained marksmen less accurate, guns are very bad wilderness weapons with the need to keep both gun and powder dry and clean, plus until the paper cartidge a gunner can't fire downhill. Ball rolls out of barrel. Kind of limits good ambush/sniping locations doesn't it? Ultimately bows are just much, much better weapons than guns of the same period, although GW screwed the whole thing up badly with their BS bonus for dwarf handguns, which is about the only thing I've ever really held against them.

[Eredhel]

Witch elves are not concerned with personal safety,

That explains the 2 square inches of their body that are covered by armor :D

[Athenys]

I want a rifle with a scope!! and camo cloaks

Aww man, now you are making me wish the 40K MMO was coming out sooner :(. I wouldn't mind playing as an Eldar Pathfinder...

[Avatar Of War]

Witch elves are not concerned with personal safety, but that doesn't mean they will use daggers that have a chance to blow up every time they stab someone. When they get killed on a mindless charge its a personal failure, and that is acceptable.

Witch Elves are all about blood up close and personal. Its easy to see that if they wanted to be methodical killing machines they would just become archers in the back rows of an invasion. In this manner they could mow down many men before they even got to the Witch elves.

But Witch elves don't just kill, they are about murder. Impassioned, insane, primal instict, adrenaline pumping, "I killed a man to watch him bleed", kind of murder.

While a firearm might do more damage, if your good with it you will never see the blood or the agony in a man's eyes, as all he ever was or could be, passes before his eyes\

To a witch elf, killing a man personally is a act of worship, an orgasmic experiance, and how the get off on life... Their dark ages serial killers is what I'm trying to get across. You wont ever see a witch elf with a gun or any type of bow unless she is using it to club your head in with...:skull:

And Elves in general have lived thousands of years without guns and are none to comfortable with weapons that have a good of a chance of taking you and anyone near you out.

Even in our own world the Chinese who discovered gun powder first initially used it for rockets to amuse the masses, it did not occur to them till much later to make any kind of weapons out of them...

[Lord Tareq]

Sorry didn't read, large font with a bright colour makes my head hurt :rolleyes:

[Vaeronthar]

Agreed. Seriously, man, ow.