A concern regarding the static value of a Marauder's mutated arm.

[Vankador]

My concern is that the Maruader's mutation will remain un-upgradable in terms of DPS scaling at high end.

Once a character reaches rank 40, he or she can typically continue to evolve through gear. This, as it looks so far, won't be the case with the Marauder's left arm.

While a Choppa or Witch Elf will remain able to further increase their DPS by obtaining better weapons, a Marauder will remain with the same mutations through out rank 40.

This reminds of WoW Druid bears and cats where their 'weapons' are their claws which can only increase in DPS through armor itemization.

Unless Marauders get mutation upgrades through raiding/PvPing or what have you, their left arm will remain only scalable through armor itemization which will suck.

[Maloka]

I think the mutation arm DPS is based on stats, since on their description say 'raises X stat...' so yes its going to be like WoW druid

[Vankador]

I think the mutation arm DPS is based on stats, since on their description say 'raises X stat...' so yes its going to be like WoW druid

If that's true, then I predict that Marauders will be like the WoW Rogues. They'll start off strong until enough people have obtained rare quality or better weapons at which point their off-hand DPS will become lacking.

[Boulvae]

So what? It's their off-hand, their main weapon will still contribute a big amount of their dps. Besides the different mutations also provide VARIOUS ABILITIES which is why they get the mutations in the bloody first place.

[Foofmonger]

If other classes off-hand scales, then the maraders should as well.

If the devs look this over, we need to complain about it until they fix it.

Its that simple.

[Truce]

Your concern is based on the assumption that every other class will continue to increase their DPS through itemization at the level cap. That's not necessarily true.

In DAoC currently, the highest damage weapons are 16.5 DPS. 5 years ago, the highest damage weapons were... 16.5 DPS. Expansions have added equipment with new types of bonuses, but the base damage has never scaled. And it didn't have to, either, because long-term character development is based mostly on your RvR rank, not your gear.

It's entirely possible that WAR will use a similar system, so the marauder's offhand damage won't have to scale.

[Mo0rbid]

If that's true, then I predict that Marauders will be like the WoW Rogues. They'll start off strong until enough people have obtained rare quality or better weapons at which point their off-hand DPS will become lacking.

well my rogue for one could kill almost anyone and his gear was bad now that its TBC. spec: the good ol' seal fate spec topped with prep

the rogue is one of the least gear dependant classes, even more so if you have a good spec and knowledge

I've not had problems with my off-hand wep :P

[nWe]

well my rogue for one could kill almost anyone and his gear was bad now that its TBC. spec: the good ol' seal fate spec topped with prep

the rogue is one of the least gear dependant classes, even more so if you have a good spec and knowledge

I've not had problems with my off-hand wep :P
Pfft, my warlock owns bad geared rogues easy as pie.

[Necrotoxin]

I am sure the devs already considered that problem when they made the class and have a solution. In any case if there is a problem I believe they would fix it right away seeing as how they are listening to the community unlike other MMO's.

[Foofmonger]

Pfft, my warlock owns bad geared rogues easy as pie.

Pre-Deathcoil, I never lost to a warlock of any gear with my UD rogue, ever.

Was fun times.

[Vankador]

So what? It's their off-hand, their main weapon will still contribute a big amount of their dps. Besides the different mutations also provide VARIOUS ABILITIES which is why they get the mutations in the bloody first place.


I don't know if you've noticed, but the other 23 classes that don't have arm mutations will also get VARIOUS ABILITIES.



Edit:

P.S. I truly hope that weapon damage does not stay the same like in DAoC, that would ruin a lot of the fun for those gear progression oriented folks like me.

P.P.S. Sorry for turning this thread into a WoW class discussion.

[Duty]

Pre-Deathcoil, I never lost to a warlock of any gear with my UD rogue, ever.

Was fun times.

Pre-Deathcoil? Deathcoil was always there, it just didn't do the Horror effect :p

[Foofmonger]

Pre-Deathcoil? Deathcoil was always there, it just didn't do the Horror effect :p

I guess I shoulda phrased it like.

Pre-Useful Deathcoil

[stumbles]

i heard/read somewhere that the offhand is going to be equal to a rare (?) item or something along those lines, but i can't site my source so you prolly wont believe me

of course its "subject to change" but i know i heard/read that somewhere

i didn't hear/read i thru forums it was either and interview or a video gah wish i could remember

[AKASlaphappy]

i heard/read somewhere that the offhand is going to be equal to a rare (?) item or something along those lines, but i can't site my source so you prolly wont believe me

of course its "subject to change" but i know i heard/read that somewhere

i didn't hear/read i thru forums it was either and interview or a video gah wish i could remember

"Whenever they're mutated, they'll get the same combat benefits that someone dual-wielding weapons would get, and their mutated limb is considered to be a rare-quality weapon as far as DPS goes."

You are refereeing to this, which was in the beta update on the homepage of his site!

[Tlear]

I don't know if you've noticed, but the other 23 classes that don't have arm mutations will also get VARIOUS ABILITIES.



Edit:

P.S. I truly hope that weapon damage does not stay the same like in DAoC, that would ruin a lot of the fun for those gear progression oriented folks like me.

P.P.S. Sorry for turning this thread into a WoW class discussion.

massive gear based dps boosts are a TERRIBLE idea in a pvp game. They break balance and have to be patched/nerfed constantly

[Foofmonger]

massive gear based dps boosts are a TERRIBLE idea in a pvp game. They break balance and have to be patched/nerfed constantly

Only if thy are being constantly added. If there are gear based dps boosts, but that gear isnt stuff getting patched in regularly (its always been there), then that is fine.

Scaling applies to two things, the actual mechanic, and the mechanic when it is applied to the constant "getting" of new gear (aka the WoW syndrome), when we are talking about the mechanic itself, it is pretty silly if the marauders offhand doesn't scale at the same rate that the other dual wield classes get (unless there is a balance reason), but it should scale all the same.

[Boulvae]

But the tricks and abilities given to the Mutation makes it an Offhand where it's actual damage scaling would have to be handled a little more differently BECAUSE of balance issues, and the fact that it's not your normal offhand weapon means you can fight without it but hampers your abilities that way thus making it a must so it'd still have to have damage scaling handled differently.

Also Witch Elves (lore wise they don't weild big clunky things, doesn't work with their dancing frenzy) is the only other DPS i'd compare for dualweild scaling to the Marauder cause these two's playstyles revolve around it while the others that are capable can do without if chosen to.

[Truce]

P.S. I truly hope that weapon damage does not stay the same like in DAoC, that would ruin a lot of the fun for those gear progression oriented folks like me.

/shrug

You said yourself in your original post that gear-progression causes design and balance problems when all classes don't use equipment the same way.

Are you really a "gear-progression oriented" player or just a "progression oriented" player? Is there something special about acquiring new gear that can't be achieved through other kinds of advancement, like RvR ranks or Tome unlocks?

Personally, I really liked the character progression system (based mostly on realm rank) in DAoC. It was really your character that became stronger as you achieved battle-hardened veteran status. I found it fundamentally more satisfying than a progression model where a veteran character is really no stronger than a newbie unless he's managed to find better equipment to wear.

[Hive]

Well, considering that gear is career-oriented (ie marauder gear is usable by marauders only) it should be too hard to fit in an "off hands damage only increase" stat. Or they just change the scalings of increase they get from other stats (ie x + str increases mutation damage by x amount). Shouldn't be too hard to keep it in line with whatever the other melee dps types get from new weapons.

[Baron Khaine]

Well, considering that gear is career-oriented (ie marauder gear is usable by marauders only) it should be too hard to fit in an "off hands damage only increase" stat. Or they just change the scalings of increase they get from other stats (ie x + str increases mutation damage by x amount). Shouldn't be too hard to keep it in line with whatever the other melee dps types get from new weapons.

That was my thought on the matter as well. Perhaps with a WoW style Libram or Relic or whatever they were called, that Pallies and Shamans could put in there ranged slot to get a bonus, you couldn't see it, but it was there, so maybe have something that we can put on our mutated arm that will increase its dmg, but you can't see it.

[Gemini]

Sounds good to me. An offhand item or a special inventory slot that is just special chaos-artifacts, the same way the Zealot get's their offhand items. Seems like the best idea to me, but we'll see what Mythic decides to do.

[Vankador]

massive gear based dps boosts are a TERRIBLE idea in a pvp game. They break balance and have to be patched/nerfed constantly

I agree to a certain extent, but gear progression is a staple in MMORPGs, especially for when someone hits the level cap and there's no further way to progress other than acquiring new gear and 'trophies.'

People will only PvP for so long before they get bored and leave if there is no further gear/abilities to fight for.

Same games like EQ made players stick around simply because of their equipment upgrades and AAs which gave players a reason to keep playing the game even though it had the same old PvE content and basically no PvP.






/shrug

You said yourself in your original post that gear-progression causes design and balance problems when all classes don't use equipment the same way.

Are you really a "gear-progression oriented" player or just a "progression oriented" player? Is there something special about acquiring new gear that can't be achieved through other kinds of advancement, like RvR ranks or Tome unlocks?

Personally, I really liked the character progression system (based mostly on realm rank) in DAoC. It was really your character that became stronger as you achieved battle-hardened veteran status. I found it fundamentally more satisfying than a progression model where a veteran character is really no stronger than a newbie unless he's managed to find better equipment to wear.

I think that gear-progression is a branch off progression in general. I am a progression oreiented player, which includes progression in rank, gear, abilities, and other show-offy types of progression such as trophies and titles.

Also, I agree, it would be awesome if your character's power could be determined without weapons or gear, but if that was so, then I think that there would be less aesthetic variety. You couldn't go "Oh wow, that guy has a Doomblade of Eternal Asskicking!, I'll have to employ a different tactic if I want to take him down."

[Tlear]

I agree to a certain extent, but gear progression is a staple in MMORPGs, especially for when someone hits the level cap and there's no further way to progress other than acquiring new gear and 'trophies.'

People will only PvP for so long before they get bored and leave if there is no further gear/abilities to fight for.

Same games like EQ made players stick around simply because of their equipment upgrades and AAs which gave players a reason to keep playing the game even though it had the same old PvE content and basically no PvP.

I think that gear-progression is a branch off progression in general. I am a progression oreiented player, which includes progression in rank, gear, abilities, and other show-offy types of progression such as trophies and titles.

Also, I agree, it would be awesome if your character's power could be determined without weapons or gear, but if that was so, then I think that there would be less aesthetic variety. You couldn't go "Oh wow, that guy has a Doomblade of Eternal Asskicking!, I'll have to employ a different tactic if I want to take him down."

As someone mentioned before, max dps on weapons in DAOC has not changed since release I think, they might have added 0.5 dps a sec I think.

To me progression based character abilities being improved and new tactics/abilities being aquired is MUCH more satisfying then farming for a Sword os Asskicking.

[Vankador]

As someone mentioned before, max dps on weapons in DAOC has not changed since release I think, they might have added 0.5 dps a sec I think.

To me progression based character abilities being improved and new tactics/abilities being aquired is MUCH more satisfying then farming for a Sword os Asskicking.

Yes, that's how you feel and you're entitled to that. But what about the other half that enjoy raiding/questing/killing for new and better gear? I doubt Mythic is going to ignore such a large playerbase, and if they do, it'll be a huge mistake.

WoW didn't get 9 million subscribers because of it's suberb PvP, it got 9 million subsribers because of it's nice balance between questing, raiding, pvping, and group/solo grinding as well as its awesome array of gear choices and upgrades.


Oh and gigantic shoulderpads.

[Tlear]

Yes, that's how you feel and you're entitled to that. But what about the other half that enjoy raiding/questing/killing for new and better gear? I doubt Mythic is going to ignore such a large playerbase, and if they do, it'll be a huge mistake.

WoW didn't get 9 million subscribers because of it's suberb PvP, it got 9 million subsribers because of it's nice balance between questing, raiding, pvping, and group/solo grinding as well as its awesome array of gear choices and upgrades.


Oh and gigantic shoulderpads.

If they try to compete for the farmer demographic vs Blizzard they will lose. Bliz has just too many resources and Mythic always sucked in making pve content

[Foofmonger]

If they try to compete for the farmer demographic vs Blizzard they will lose. Bliz has just too many resources and Mythic always sucked in making pve content

They obviously are not. They are competing for the PvP demographic, which they will probably not lose.

[Gemini]

Not to mention the people who like PvE, but don't like 3 hour raids so you can maybe win a roll over a piece of equipment that you maybe need.

[Boulvae]

I would favor more to DAoC's way of having weapons not really greatly change in power and only having multiple different abilities looks and benefits due to the fact that this game is set to take on RvR (which they coined by the way, making them the Guerilla of what they are specifically aiming for in tis type of MMORPg genre, which isn't JUST PvP - it would infact be the equivilant to large scale Group vs. Group with the PvE thrown in there as part of the intriqet design to still benefit the greater fight at hand).

The Raiding community in WoW was something like 2.5% of an entire population per server, which was the overpowered minority that Blizzard catered to more then the majority except for the "kiddies". Which Mythic won't be targeting in the first place, so all PvE would be geared to the more "casual" majority and RPers (which is a good thing for this particular title). Inwhich may or may not care about gear progression except looking cool and obviously getting some accomplishments out of it which Mythic seems to be also throwing in there either then just gear.

WoW won it's success from having Blizzard on the title, and having Warcraft as it's ganre title. Brandname of which was greatly well known amongst many fans of either Diablo, Starcraft, and of course Warcraft fans. Plus having the game they make actually solid albeit almost unoriginal.

[ungenius]

i also would favor a more career oriented upgrade to the character rather then armor/weapon based upgrades.... to the one person saying "oh that guy has the sword of kicking i'm going to have to watch out for him" or whatever, why can't it be that exact same thing but just with various cool looking weapons that people have earned through various things that would say to that person "holy crap, that guy has that sword, he must really know what hes doing" if you make everything a gear grind then you start taking away from the spirit of the game in my opinion... gear should slightly help your stats/abilities sure, but they shouldn't be game breaking... it should be enough to have some huge weapon of legend with huge flames and sparks shooting off it that tells everyone around 'wow that person is a badass', their abilities and such got them the weapon but their whole skill shouldn't be based on that weapon/gear... take arena gear vs pve gear in wow for example, if you had 2 warriors one in full season 2 arena gear and weapon and one in full epics from high end raids, pretty much no matter what the pve geared warrior is going to get schooled over and over again by that arena geared warrior, no matter how skilled they are just because of the gear discrepancy...
however, if you go for more of a career/character based upgrade with slight gear upgrades, you will find it much more even, since that one person who has the super awesome weapons and armor is most likely a super awesome player... its not just that they put in an hour a week for 2 months to get the gear, and the gear they have doesn't play as large a role as the skill they obviously had in order to obtain the items.
its kind of like the trophy system i guess, you see someone with these awesome trophies on and you'll be able to see instantly that they are someone who you might not want to go up against... (not because they have 20% more crit rate and a weapon that has double the damage as you, but because they obviously are a veteran player)

just my two cents, sorry if its a little scattered its 4am and i decided to come on to see if anyone was talking about anything interesting :)

and just remember people, just because something is popular, doesn't mean its "obviously good" or that they are "obviously doing whats best"

[Malal]

Yeah i would also favour DAOC progression of weapons/abilities. I found it very tedious doing the weapon grind in WoW. Either that or make the weapons easier to get. But meh i plan to play a caster anyway so they wont be as important.

[Sentnl]

I'm not going to read through all this rubbish, the offhand arm scales as a percentage, sigh...

THIS ISNT WOW, BLIZZARD DOESN"T KNOW WTF IS UP IN HERE

[Baron Khaine]

I'm not going to read through all this rubbish, the offhand arm scales as a percentage, sigh...

THIS ISNT WOW, BLIZZARD DOESN"T KNOW WTF IS UP IN HERE

Don't bash WoW, or Blizzard on these forums, we don't do that here, I don't understand what your saying either.

[Vankador]

One of the reasons why I stuck with WoW for so long (3 years) is becuase of its gear progression, including weapons.

If WAR has little or no weapon progression or if they make them ALL easy to get or of similar value/worth, then I can almost promise you it will turn off a large portion of the playerbase.

What will be the point for those who work their butt off? If I put in the work, I should be awarded with some kind of worthwile reward that would give me a small edge over those who put no work/effort into their character. All I'll say is, if I put in the hours, and all I get to show for it is some lame visual trophie or title, I will be disappointed.


They should make weapons work like the ones in EQ2, it'll make both sides happy I think.

[Gorn]

One of the reasons why I stuck with WoW for so long (3 years) is becuase of its gear progression, including weapons.

If WAR has little or no weapon progression or if they make them ALL easy to get or of similar value/worth, then I can almost promise you it will turn off a large portion of the playerbase.

What will be the point for those who work their butt off? If I put in the work, I should be awarded with some kind of worthwile reward that would give me a small edge over those who put no work/effort into their character. All I'll say is, if I put in the hours, and all I get to show for it is some lame visual trophie or title, I will be disappointed.


They should make weapons work like the ones in EQ2, it'll make both sides happy I think.

Mythic said they aren't trying to beat WoW. They may not be aiming for the gear wanting crowd. They may want those who keep playing because they like the game the way Mythic made it, instead of making their game the way someone else made because lots of people like that way. Play as long as it's fun then quit, so be it. WoW didn't keep me with gear, too much trouble for me to get, it actually got in the way of what I wanted to do..just play and have a fair chance.

That however is me, and the fact War looks to be a mostly just play game makes it intresting to me. You and I have different tastes. Your way is as good as mine, I just don't like it. Mythic may be testing the market for a different way of doing things.

[ApricotSoup]

One of the reasons why I stuck with WoW for so long (3 years) is becuase of its gear progression, including weapons.

If WAR has little or no weapon progression or if they make them ALL easy to get or of similar value/worth, then I can almost promise you it will turn off a large portion of the playerbase.


But the opposite will turn off a large portion of the playerbase as well.

I started raiding in wow and got to 4h in naxx before tbc and enjoyed it for a time. But ultimately the constant grinding for gear upgrades was what directly what turned me and many others that I know of away from the game. The knife cuts both ways.

[Vankador]

Mythic said they aren't trying to beat WoW. They may not be aiming for the gear wanting crowd. They may want those who keep playing because they like the game the way Mythic made it, instead of making their game the way someone else made because lots of people like that way. Play as long as it's fun then quit, so be it. WoW didn't keep me with gear, too much trouble for me to get, it actually got in the way of what I wanted to do..just play and have a fair chance.

That is good, aiming too high such as thinking they can 'beat' WoW isn't the way to go. But they should aim for at least competing with WoW if they hope to siphon off some of its playerbase. After all, they're making a game to make money, and steering away from ideas that make videogames popular/successful isn't a very smart marketing decision.


But the opposite will turn off a large portion of the playerbase as well.

I started raiding in wow and got to 4h in naxx before tbc and enjoyed it for a time. But ultimately the constant grinding for gear upgrades was what directly what turned me and many others that I know of away from the game. The knife cuts both ways.

I agree with that part, constant grinding of the same place over and over does get tedious and it's also not my bag of tea. But grinding for weapons and making weapons upgradable and challenging to get arn't really the same thing.

I'd much prefer getting gear/weapon upgrades via PvP/Quests, that's what brought me over to WAR in the first place.

[Foofmonger]

I agree with that part, constant grinding of the same place over and over does get tedious and it's also not my bag of tea. But grinding for weapons and making weapons upgradable and challenging to get arn't really the same thing.

I'd much prefer getting gear/weapon upgrades via PvP/Quests, that's what brought me over to WAR in the first place.

There are two things I would like to state.

I am not against the getting of better gear/weapons through whatever means.

I am against the constant updating of the relative highest level of gear (like WoW).

I 100% hope that Mythic does not pull a WoW and put in a new "highest tier" of gear every couple months. Relatively, I don't think they should put a higher level of gear in unless its with an expansion. This creates the WoW syndrome where new players have 0 chance to compete unless they spend the time acquiring all the tiers of gear (usually in order). This is not a good thing.

[Gorn]

[quote=Vankador;563836]That is good, aiming too high such as thinking they can 'beat' WoW isn't the way to go. But they should aim for at least competing with WoW if they hope to siphon off some of its playerbase. After all, they're making a game to make money, and steering away from ideas that make videogames popular/successful isn't a very smart marketing decision.


Of course they are competing, doesn't require coping. One place specializes in vegetables and makes millions of dollars preparing vegetables. One place sells meat and makes millions of dollars preparing meat. They are competing each place sells food, they however do not specialize in the same kind of food. The place selling meat isn't going to try to out vegetable the vegetable specialist, even though that's what is making the vegetable place all it's millions.

That's what I mean. They aren't avoiding competition they are competing in a different manner.

[CousinSven]

Pre-Deathcoil, I never lost to a warlock of any gear with my UD rogue, ever.

Was fun times.

NO MORE WOW TALK OMG!!!!

[Baron Khaine]

NO MORE WOW TALK OMG!!!!

Shut up, now. WoW is generally accepted as the norm to compare things to. Why? Because it has 9 million sub scribers, so the most people have played it, so its what they know. We don't do fan boys here, whether they be Blizzard fan boys, or WAR fan boys who bash every other game.

If you can't type something nice, don't use your fingers.

[AcacianLeaves]

WAR is, without a doubt, an RvR game. WoW is, without a doubt, a gear game. Even the PvP that WoW has is rewarded with more gear. If your idea of end-game content is 'gear progression', you're in for a pleasant surprise. There is something better out there. Real end-game content is RvR, not gear progression. Marauder mutating hand won't be an issue, because it's DPS will be relative to other DPS.

Trust me, this isn't going to be a game where you have to update your gear every 2 months. If you think 'gear progression' is what MMORPGs are all about, God help you. Welcome to a better game.

[Baron Khaine]

Was that aimed at myself or someone else?

[AcacianLeaves]

It wasn't 'aimed' at anyone, just a general statement regarding games like WoW where your only goal is to be rewarded with gear of ever-increasing power.

[CousinSven]

Shut up, now. WoW is generally accepted as the norm to compare things to. Why? Because it has 9 million sub scribers, so the most people have played it, so its what they know. We don't do fan boys here, whether they be Blizzard fan boys, or WAR fan boys who bash every other game.

If you can't type something nice, don't use your fingers.

im hardly a "fanboy" of any kind. and if i was it would be more to wow anyways after lvling 3 70s and achieving end-game gear.(wow took away 3 years of my life grrr) i merely didn't want this thread to become a wow argument.... i hardly see how this is a "mean" statement as you imply.

[RavenCraven]

If that's true, then I predict that Marauders will be like the WoW Rogues. They'll start off strong until enough people have obtained rare quality or better weapons at which point their off-hand DPS will become lacking.

Gear doesn't have that large of an impact as in World of Warcraft. And either way, I'm positive that this wont be an issue.

[Zeldias]

Since gear is class-specific, it should be pretty easy to avoid screwing over Marauders.

Also, WoW's gear progression turned me away almost the instant I hit 60. Since I was a Rogue and was pretty good at getting the drop on folks, I could usually at least stunlock some guy in super-powered gear and scream until some other guy in super-powered gear took him down, but that was actually incredibly lame. I really hated that I was always chasing after some piece of gear to get stronger, forever. "Oh boy, I'm a little closer to getting a lump of iron with five more DPS and 10 more agility!" I'm sorry, but I just don't dig it. I don't mind doing stuff to get better gear, but I don't want to just grind to get better gear so I can be better equipped to grind to get better gear. Part of the reason I'm excited about WAR is that I'll be doing things that matter in the actual game-world and THAT will be progression, as opposed to going through a dungeon and killing a boss ad nauseum until I get that one drop I need.

I acknowledge that it's a valid playstyle, but it's not the playstyle Mythic is going for, I think.

[sir rounded]

Ive seen a couple guilds torn apart due to gear in WoW actually. Killing bosses just to get a new set of items a little better then the last. Then once your guild clears one of the hardest instances in the game, an expansion comes out making all your gear obsolete. at first your like yay these blues are a whole lot better then my purples. Then i realize i have to do every thing over again in order to get that new shiny set of epics.

Sure tons of guilds in WoW are still raiding those end game instances like black temple or the world tree. But soon the Wrath of the Lich King will come out and they'll start it out all over again. I got sick of it and quit along with a huge chunk of my guild, so is it just a matter of time before those bad pro guilds get bored to?

[Psiho246]

Ive seen a couple guilds torn apart due to gear in WoW actually. Killing bosses just to get a new set of items a little better then the last. Then once your guild clears one of the hardest instances in the game, an expansion comes out making all your gear obsolete. at first your like yay these blues are a whole lot better then my purples. Then i realize i have to do every thing over again in order to get that new shiny set of epics.

Sure tons of guilds in WoW are still raiding those end game instances like black temple or the world tree. But soon the Wrath of the Lich King will come out and they'll start it out all over again. I got sick of it and quit along with a huge chunk of my guild, so is it just a matter of time before those bad pro guilds get bored to?

LOL exactly, thats one of the reason i quit, the other reason is utter boredom lol.

Uhm are we still talking about marauder?

[sindbad]

Didn't read the whole thread so sorry for any redundancies.

Why couldn't the mutation simply engulf the offhand weapon, thus keeping dps and whatnot of that weapon ?

[Myling]

The Marauders mutated arm is no more static then a spell-casters spells. If a casters spells do more damage with the Intelligence stat, then the mutated arm does more damage with the Strength stat.

[Thoroar]

Why couldn't items exist that add power to static value of the Marauder's Arm?

Norsica's Fury

1h Sword
214-398 Damage Range
2.8 Speed
109.3 DPS
+13 STR
+97 DMG to Marauder's mutations

Something like Feral Druid Items in WoW.

[Gemini]

Why couldn't items exist that add power to static value of the Marauder's Arm?


Considering all equipment is class-specific, it's a pretty safe bet there are items like that.

[Myling]

Another idea would be to simple add some of the main hand weapon damage (or DPS) to the mutated arm.

In other words, Mutated arm damage depends on main hand weapon damage.

[Oxygen.]

As long as the gear upgrades aren't as pitiful as GW. As long as gear always offer flexibility ( PvP, PvE, Solo? COUGH WOW LACKS THIS COUGH )

[Dorian]

One of the reasons why I stuck with WoW for so long (3 years) is becuase of its gear progression, including weapons.

If WAR has little or no weapon progression or if they make them ALL easy to get or of similar value/worth, then I can almost promise you it will turn off a large portion of the playerbase.


It has already been mentioned in various Podcasts and Interviews that WAR will undoubtedly be more skill based then gear based. Majority of people, at least those whom I have played with disagree with your taste for weapon/gear progressions and dislike huge weapon/armor progressions because of balance issues. As a matter of fact in a recent interview I read or vid ( can't remember now) It was stated that regardless of gear anyone in your level range will be able to compete fairly in PvP, though obviously the one with the better gear will have an advantage. That is the way it should be IMO. Just because you have more time on your hands to play or get into a top guild, does not mean you should dominate over the rest of the playerbase. Which is how one of the more popular games right now, that doesn't need to be mentioned, functions.

On the topic of the Marauder's mutations. It was said somewhere (I also can't remember the source) that the mutation would scale on a level equal to a rare weapon. So Mythic has it under control. Did some of you honestly think a company like Mythic would make a mistake like that? This isn't a "Oh I forgot to zip up my fly." kind of mistake. It is a huge mechanic within the game that wouldn't be over looked by any respectable company, I don't quite understand why a couple of folks here are so unjustifiably worried about it.

[Torcher999]

Instead of items I was looking forward to some endgame quests which unlock better mutations (preferably from the tome of knowledge).
On the other hand I'm not sure if they'll bother to 'evolve' marauders as they add new endgame content. In that case mutation empowerment items will have the upper hand since it doesn't require any additional graphic/animation work :p

[DGreV]

So what? It's their off-hand, their main weapon will still contribute a big amount of their dps. Besides the different mutations also provide VARIOUS ABILITIES which is why they get the mutations in the bloody first place.
*nod* agreed.

[ManiaCCC]

I am sure there will be mechanics which will improve mutated hand after level cap. For example mutated arm will give percentage bonuses (stats or some ratings).. Or we know that character will get another levels after level cap (renown or pvp ranks) so I think, mutated hand will evolve according pvp ranks too.

[Lesane]

WAR is, without a doubt, an RvR game. WoW is, without a doubt, a gear game. Even the PvP that WoW has is rewarded with more gear. If your idea of end-game content is 'gear progression', you're in for a pleasant surprise. There is something better out there. Real end-game content is RvR, not gear progression. Marauder mutating hand won't be an issue, because it's DPS will be relative to other DPS.

Trust me, this isn't going to be a game where you have to update your gear every 2 months. If you think 'gear progression' is what MMORPGs are all about, God help you. Welcome to a better game.
everybody read this!

[Lesane]

So what? It's their off-hand, their main weapon will still contribute a big amount of their dps. Besides the different mutations also provide VARIOUS ABILITIES which is why they get the mutations in the bloody first place.
correction mate, the mutation is actually their main dps source aka mainhand. Their ofhand aka the non mutated is the one lacking in damage however still said to do comparable damage to others.

[Gemini]

correction mate, the mutation is actually their main dps source aka mainhand. Their ofhand aka the non mutated is the one lacking in damage however still said to do comparable damage to others.

Uhhh... no, actually, you are quite wrong. The mutations are off-hand, Mythic has sad so many times, and this is also supported by the official class description. Wether or not it will be the "main source of dps" remains to be seen, but last we saw the Marauder's mutation is not included in the auto-attack, just his mainhand weapon.

[Lesane]

Uhhh... no, actually, you are quite wrong. The mutations are off-hand, Mythic has sad so many times, and this is also supported by the official class description. Wether or not it will be the "main source of dps" remains to be seen, but last we saw the Marauder's mutation is not included in the auto-attack, just his mainhand weapon.
<[WAR]Gersh> Players will be able to unlock 3 diffrent types of mutations, We call them "Gifts".. but in a nutshell you get 3 types
<[WAR]Gersh> Claws (Dragon claw, Bird Claw, Beast claws)... Blades , and Bludgeons which we fondly refer to as "The Meat Club"
<[WAR]Gersh> Depending on the mutation you have access to diffrent attacks
<[WAR]Gersh> In addition you gain an offhand weapon that includes DPS and Stats that are on a similar level with very good item drops

[Foofmonger]

<[WAR]Gersh> Players will be able to unlock 3 diffrent types of mutations, We call them "Gifts".. but in a nutshell you get 3 types
<[WAR]Gersh> Claws (Dragon claw, Bird Claw, Beast claws)... Blades , and Bludgeons which we fondly refer to as "The Meat Club"
<[WAR]Gersh> Depending on the mutation you have access to diffrent attacks
<[WAR]Gersh> In addition you gain an offhand weapon that includes DPS and Stats that are on a similar level with very good item drops

I think that means when u aren't mutated, in relation to the mutated arm.

Or maybe I'm wrong, who knows.

[Gemini]

Your right Foof, check out the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SF4dSRIhyg), clearly an offhand and is not part of the auto-attack. I would also quote the official description on warhammeronline.com, but it seems to be down at the time of posting this. Numerous other times the mutation was referred to as offhand also, and the dev chat quote dosn't say anything to contradict it.