White lion as a pet class?

[Garthilk]

Is that possible? Maybe they get like a pet, kind of like a plege, or follower that follows them around carrying a banner and doing extra melee dps. Crazy I know.

[pzykozis]

maybe they get a siberian tiger well... the warhammer white lion version thereof!
which would be weird but meh... i just want shade :( ahh well sorceresses look cool anyways

[Hadren]

Sounds like your referring to captains from lord of the rings lol.

[mongoose]

Is that possible? Maybe they get like a pet, kind of like a plege, or follower that follows them around carrying a banner and doing extra melee dps. Crazy I know.

Im a bit confused.....is this the first time this has crossed your mind? Because we have been discussing it here for well over a month. In fact there are probably 5 threa........(err make that more like 3 with the rollback) on this forum discussing it.

[Mirac]

Is this the first time a WHA site admin has stated their intended class?

woot for Garthilk on the Order side!!!:mrgreen:

[Vaeronthar]

Garth had already previously claimed to desire to play a Bright Wizard. So, second time.

[Duty]

Garth had already previously claimed to desire to play a Bright Wizard. So, second time.

He was a Zealot before that.

I smell an altoholic.

[Vaeronthar]

He was a Zealot before that.

I smell an altoholic.
The mods are like one of us?

[Foofmonger]

I'd be surprised if WL weren't a pet class.

Mythic has stated Order will be getting a pet class.

We know about every other class besides the WL, and none of them are pet classes.

That leaves the WL as the pet class, unless Mythic is redesgining a previously released class.

Considering that they are known for bonding with lions, are the only class not yet revelead, and we know that order is getting a pet class, I don't think its a big assumption.

[Avien]

Is this the first time a WHA site admin has stated their intended class?

woot for Garthilk on the Order side!!!:mrgreen:

I have already stated my intended class once...but I do not think you'll find that post anywhere, as I only accidentally posted it with the mod account ;)


The mods are like one of us?

We are like you, only colored brightly orange and with a banhammer in the right hand and some reading glasses in the left. Side effects of being spawned by Garth, you know.

[Xilbalba]

You know I just noticed that this WL pet class thing contradicts the DE's having Sorcerors (or the other way around, whichever). Let me explain, "If" according to some people the choice to include male Sorcerors was because Mythic decided to reference 4th edition rules then the grounds of them picking the WL for a pet class would be nil considering it wasn't even an idea (pre 7th with the lion chariots and such) that the lions were anything other than pelts and marks of honour for the WL's in that edition. So in order to have them as pets you'd have to be looking at the latest edition of HE's from a lore perspective and if you do that then to hell with male Sorcerors.

Of course this is speculation as they could just as well pick whatever the hell they like from whatever edition they wanted to. So on one hand you either have multi edition warhammer in which case we really don't know what to reference and all guesses can just be thrown out the window. Or you have the possiblity that the WL's won't be a pet class.

I'd personally prefer it if they tried to stick to lore as closely as possible from one edition otherwise that detracts much from immersion. I don't mid being stuck in a past version but this anachronological stuff has gotta go imo.

[Duty]

I have already stated my intended class once...but I do not think you'll find that post anywhere, as I only accidentally posted it with the mod account ;)


If your name/avatar is any indication, Zealot would be a good guess.

[ManiaCCC]

The mods are like one of us?

O_o No no..it can't be... Mods and Admins of WHA are gods.. i am pretty sure.

[Dracohouston]

They'd sort of be like a D&D ranger, animal companion and melee. It would be an interesting combination in an MMO. Especially if you have to improve your pet in some way to keep your dps high.

edit: oh dear, this is what I get for posting while I'm tired. I post a serious post in a parody thread

My hats off to you, Garthilk.

[Selendor]

Is that possible? Maybe they get like a pet, kind of like a plege, or follower that follows them around carrying a banner and doing extra melee dps. Crazy I know.

Please use our search function, there are multiple threads on this topic. Locking for consolidation.


...wait.

[Dracohouston]

I just looked at this subboard. 7 white lion threads. You guys need to do what the dwarfs did, consolidate everything into a single thread. Worked wonders!

[Yavvy]

Please use our search function, there are multiple threads on this topic. Locking for consolidation.


...wait.You should take Garth's job ;)

[Taurth]

Also, forgot to mention this, there was a big picture of a White Lion with pet at the show

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/2945/dh07ah9.jpg

[Foofmonger]

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/2945/dh07ah9.jpg

Nice find, looks like white lions are in lol.

[Axxar]

Sure smells like that. Gotta love a melee pet-based career.

[thelastlogan]

the pet is going to slow me down i think, the enemies goes for them first and your done really..

[Axxar]

That's seems like a pretty random statement considering we know nothing about the career mechanics.

[Dracohouston]

the pet is going to slow me down i think, the enemies goes for them first and your done really..

If you'd played a pet class before you'd know that that is a very good thing ;D

[Avatar Of War]

Im a bit confused.....is this the first time this has crossed your mind? Because we have been discussing it here for well over a month. In fact there are probably 5 threa........(err make that more like 3 with the rollback) on this forum discussing it.

Uhmm I'm with the rat that does not trust my cheese and peanut butter (its perfectly safe..mostly)

We have been speaking about this for over two months and asked in no less than two or three threads for you to make a white lion board...

Where have you been and what have you been smoking? I would really like some...

[Avatar Of War]

Please use our search function, there are multiple threads on this topic. Locking for consolidation.


...wait.

I lol'ed in my pants a little just now...

[wis]

They'd sort of be like a D&D ranger, animal companion and melee. It would be an interesting combination in an MMO. Especially if you have to improve your pet in some way to keep your dps high.

edit: oh dear, this is what I get for posting while I'm tired. I post a serious post in a parody thread

My hats off to you, Garthilk.

No you do know that they aren't Rangers. Yes the elves from Chrace are strong and skilled woodsmen hence the axes. But those this sound like a Ranger to you? Some who would rely on a pet more than his strong arms and great axe? The White Lions are the personal bodyguards of the Phoenix King!!
->
The White Lions are the personal guard of the Phoenix King. They form a number of substantial regiments that protect the King's palace in peacetime and accompany him in time of war. Traditionally the White Lions are recruited from the rugged land of Chrace, a perilous realm whose inhabitants are great woodsmen and fierce warriors. Those woodsman of Chrace who prove themselves worthy to become a member of the King's elite bodyguard are expert warriors, who fight with long-handled axes. Shoulder to shoulder with their comrades, White Lions are capable of weathering the deadliest assaults before retaliating with swift, crushing blows.

White Lion regiments are often despatched to join the armies of Ulthuan during times of particular danger, tasked with protecting High Elf generals, mages or bolstering the overall strength of the army. White Lions are renowned for their unflinching courage in the face of overwhelming odds and terrible horrors, protecting their charge whatever the foe and regardless of the danger to themselves.

Damn it. Now we are going to see Drizzt Do'Urdens and Guenhwyvars all over the place. I like White Lions, they strongest elves and carry great axes and are the bodyguards of the phoenix king. Why would i rely on a freaking white lion? i already got one... the one im wearing as a sign of pride in doing a thing alone with my bare hands. if im going to play a White Lion on a RP server im not going to use the pet. suddenly all White Lions are using pets? Even Korhil? What happened with that White Lions are tainted by the corruption in the annuli mountains which flood down into some rivers?

[Artorius Necto]

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/2945/dh07ah9.jpg

I think you have the biggest evidence of WL being in!!

[Xilbalba]

WL in fine, WL with pets = bullcrap Mythic pulled out of a hat cause they just had to even out the damn squig herder. This along with male sorcerors has shown that utter crap about Mythic being in line with lore.

Like hell the Phoenix Kings Bodyguards have lions, gimmicky crap. Sorry, I'm just a little dissapointed if this proves to be true. Besides I think instead of referencing lore what they really do is just ask some rep at Gamesworkshop if they can do this or not. My list of reasons why this is lore sellout:

1. Listed above Phoenix King's bodyguards (lions tracking lion crap into the court).
2. Lion Pelt pelt pelt pelt pelt pelt.
3. Melee DPS really dosen't functonally need a pet (to tank?). Debateable.
4. No lore history to back this crap up at all (lion chariots don't count).
5. GW models fight in ranks not single models with pets.
6. Noble wild lions made into elf pets takes the mysticism away from it. What, is there like a royal lions den now to house the buggers or something? So instead of Lions roaming Charace masters of all they survey and a challenge for the WL's they're now house fed fatcats.

Just to put it intp perspective, I like WL's I think they're a great unit. I hate the idea of them having lions as pets though. That is my motivation and my opinion.

[Vikingkingq]

WL in fine, WL with pets = bullcrap Mythic pulled out of a hat cause they just had to even out the damn squig herder. This along with male sorcerors has shown that utter crap about Mythic being in line with lore.

Like hell the Phoenix Kings Bodyguards have lions, gimmicky crap. Sorry, I'm just a little dissapointed if this proves to be true. Besides I think instead of referencing lore what they really do is just ask some rep at Gamesworkshop if they can do this or not. My list of reasons why this is lore sellout:

1. Listed above Phoenix King's bodyguards (lions tracking lion crap into the court).
2. Lion Pelt pelt pelt pelt pelt pelt.
3. Melee DPS really dosen't functonally need a pet (to tank?). Debateable.
4. No lore history to back this crap up at all (lion chariots don't count).
5. GW models fight in ranks not single models with pets.
6. Noble wild lions made into elf pets takes the mysticism away from it. What, is there like a royal lions den now to house the buggers or something? So instead of Lions roaming Charace masters of all they survey and a challenge for the WL's they're now house fed fatcats.

Just to put it intp perspective, I like WL's I think they're a great unit. I hate the idea of them having lions as pets though. That is my motivation and my opinion.

Xilbalba, you need to catch up on the Lore, because it changes. For that matter, check out the many White Lion threads where this has been debated:

http://uk.games-workshop.com/highelves/miniature-gallery/10/
"When the regiments of Chrace go to war they are often accompanied by powerful War Lions, that draw the famed Lion Chariots. Sturdy war engines made in the traditions of the legendary chariots of Tiranoc, the Lion Chariots are fashioned from the same smooth white wood. These chariots are the finest expression of the Elven artisan's craft. Unlike the swift and nimble Tiranoc Chariots though, the Chariots of Chrace are drawn by a pair of ferocious War Lions, proud beasts whose feline grace and elegantly plaited manes belie their awesome power."

From the new 7th Edition Army Book:
"Not all white lions discovered by Chracian Hunters are killed out of hand, however, for often lion cubs or adolescents are discovered and the High Elves take no joy in needless slaughter. These cubs would doubtless become savage and deadly beasts if they were left in the wild, but with expert care the young white lions are raised to become as loyal as a Griffon. Reared with tenderness normally reserved for Elven steeds or other noble creatures, these 'tame' white lions swiftly form a bond with the Chracian hunters that foster them. Thereafter these cubs are known as War Lions, for they make formidable weapons upon the battlefield."

And as for White Lions only fighting in ranks:
http://www.fantasyshop.gr/gallery/wh-high-lions-thumb.jpg

[spirit]

WL in fine, WL with pets = bullcrap Mythic pulled out of a hat cause they just had to even out the damn squig herder. This along with male sorcerors has shown that utter crap about Mythic being in line with lore.

Like hell the Phoenix Kings Bodyguards have lions, gimmicky crap. Sorry, I'm just a little dissapointed if this proves to be true. Besides I think instead of referencing lore what they really do is just ask some rep at Gamesworkshop if they can do this or not. My list of reasons why this is lore sellout:

1. Listed above Phoenix King's bodyguards (lions tracking lion crap into the court).
2. Lion Pelt pelt pelt pelt pelt pelt.
3. Melee DPS really dosen't functonally need a pet (to tank?). Debateable.
4. No lore history to back this crap up at all (lion chariots don't count).
5. GW models fight in ranks not single models with pets.
6. Noble wild lions made into elf pets takes the mysticism away from it. What, is there like a royal lions den now to house the buggers or something? So instead of Lions roaming Charace masters of all they survey and a challenge for the WL's they're now house fed fatcats.

Just to put it intp perspective, I like WL's I think they're a great unit. I hate the idea of them having lions as pets though. That is my motivation and my opinion.


1. Batman
2. Batman
3. Batman.
4. Batman!
5. Batman?
6. ...Robi- wait no Batman.


I think that covers it.

[Spikeanarchy]

Well I agree with Xilbalba, I think its a very weak addition to the lore (raising a baby white lion) and I think they've just shoehorned it into the IP so that Order can get its 'pet' class. In other words they soldout and included a lame idea for the sake of Mythics game.

[spirit]

Well I agree with Xilbalba, I think its a very weak addition to the lore (raising a baby white lion) and I think they've just shoehorned it into the IP so that Order can get its 'pet' class. In other words they soldout and included a lame idea for the sake of Mythics game.

I don't think it's lame at all, raising tamed lions is fairly kick- for the generally pansy high elves. And hell, they tame other animals like eagles, so why not another? It's not exactly a massive lore change.

[Krulltak]

Xilbalba, you need to catch up on the Lore, because it changes. For that matter, check out the many White Lion threads where this has been debated:

http://uk.games-workshop.com/highelves/miniature-gallery/10/
"When the regiments of Chrace go to war they are often accompanied by powerful War Lions, that draw the famed Lion Chariots. Sturdy war engines made in the traditions of the legendary chariots of Tiranoc, the Lion Chariots are fashioned from the same smooth white wood. These chariots are the finest expression of the Elven artisan's craft. Unlike the swift and nimble Tiranoc Chariots though, the Chariots of Chrace are drawn by a pair of ferocious War Lions, proud beasts whose feline grace and elegantly plaited manes belie their awesome power."

From the new 7th Edition Army Book:
"Not all white lions discovered by Chracian Hunters are killed out of hand, however, for often lion cubs or adolescents are discovered and the High Elves take no joy in needless slaughter. These cubs would doubtless become savage and deadly beasts if they were left in the wild, but with expert care the young white lions are raised to become as loyal as a Griffon. Reared with tenderness normally reserved for Elven steeds or other noble creatures, these 'tame' white lions swiftly form a bond with the Chracian hunters that foster them. Thereafter these cubs are known as War Lions, for they make formidable weapons upon the battlefield."













And as for White Lions only fighting in ranks:
http://www.fantasyshop.gr/gallery/wh-high-lions-thumb.jpg In addition to Viking's words..................


LEARN THIS NOW. The tabletop mechanics, GAME MECHANICS, do NOT represent the true lore. Do you really think every soldier in the lore is glued together in a regiment of soldiers for their entire lives? Are you expecting everyone in WAR to walk in a block formation too, with every other player?!


However, I personally don't agree with White Lions being a pet class.

[Xilbalba]

In addition to Viking's words..................


LEARN THIS NOW. The tabletop mechanics, GAME MECHANICS, do NOT represent the true lore. Do you really think every soldier in the lore is glued together in a regiment of soldiers for their entire lives? Are you expecting everyone in WAR to walk in a block formation too, with every other player?!


However, I personally don't agree with White Lions being a pet class.

I like how naysayers will take my words as a direct attack on themselves and retaliate with scorn and sarcasm. Regardless, my opinion is all I put out there and a list of reasons why I think it's so. If you don't agree fine, if you jump down my throat that's your problem. And like some on this forum have specualted Mythic references rules from 4th not 7th.

But hey they can make whatever kind of game they want and reference whatever they want, I'm still gonna play it. No need to get your panties in a wrinkle folks.;)

Oh and niether of you have actually told me how taking away majestic lions in the wild and turning them into domesticated tools is a good thing for lore.

Edit: I will conceed to Viking that I haven't read the 7th ed rules involving raising baby lion cubs but then again I'm old school. Hell I haven't even seen the new rulebook since it's relatively new.

[Gemini]

Well I agree with Xilbalba, I think its a very weak addition to the lore (raising a baby white lion) and I think they've just shoehorned it into the IP so that Order can get its 'pet' class. In other words they soldout and included a lame idea for the sake of Mythics game.

GW has made it clear that Mythic's game in no way effects the true lore. WAR is it's own Warhammer-based entity, but is not part of the cannon. Mythic and GW had a bunch of meetings about what classes will be playable, and they said there was almost a hundred diffrent GW approved choiced for DE. I assume HE was similar, and two of the many choices were "Old White Lion with no pet" and "New White Lion with a pet".

[Xilbalba]

GW has made it clear that Mythic's game in no way effects the true lore. WAR is it's own Warhammer-based entity, but is not part of the cannon. Mythic and GW had a bunch of meetings about what classes will be playable, and they said there was almost a hundred diffrent GW approved choiced for DE. I assume HE was similar, and two of the many choices were "Old White Lion with no pet" and "New White Lion with a pet".

Regardless this is why people have fun debating the existance of Male Sorcerors/blood acolytes and female chosen. I accept that the lore is up for debate and interpretation, frankly I just don't think a WL with a pet is a good one.

[Spikeanarchy]

GW has made it clear that Mythic's game in no way effects the true lore. WAR is it's own Warhammer-based entity, but is not part of the cannon. Mythic and GW had a bunch of meetings about what classes will be playable, and they said there was almost a hundred diffrent GW approved choiced for DE. I assume HE was similar, and two of the many choices were "Old White Lion with no pet" and "New White Lion with a pet".

Ok thats fair enough but I still think a White Lion of Chrace with a pet lion is just a very weak, cliche idea. Hopefully I'll enjoy killing them even more for it though :o

[wis]

Xilbalba, you need to catch up on the Lore, because it changes. For that matter, check out the many White Lion threads where this has been debated:

http://uk.games-workshop.com/highelves/miniature-gallery/10/
"When the regiments of Chrace go to war they are often accompanied by powerful War Lions, that draw the famed Lion Chariots. Sturdy war engines made in the traditions of the legendary chariots of Tiranoc, the Lion Chariots are fashioned from the same smooth white wood. These chariots are the finest expression of the Elven artisan's craft. Unlike the swift and nimble Tiranoc Chariots though, the Chariots of Chrace are drawn by a pair of ferocious War Lions, proud beasts whose feline grace and elegantly plaited manes belie their awesome power."

From the new 7th Edition Army Book:
"Not all white lions discovered by Chracian Hunters are killed out of hand, however, for often lion cubs or adolescents are discovered and the High Elves take no joy in needless slaughter. These cubs would doubtless become savage and deadly beasts if they were left in the wild, but with expert care the young white lions are raised to become as loyal as a Griffon. Reared with tenderness normally reserved for Elven steeds or other noble creatures, these 'tame' white lions swiftly form a bond with the Chracian hunters that foster them. Thereafter these cubs are known as War Lions, for they make formidable weapons upon the battlefield."

And as for White Lions only fighting in ranks:
http://www.fantasyshop.gr/gallery/wh-high-lions-thumb.jpg

Yes they get a War Machine driven by two very large White Lions. But that doesnt make every god damn White Lion into somekind of drizzt do'urden guy. No where does it say that white lions bond and work like a pair on the battlefield. Yes they need to have some trainers who can train the white lions to be fielded on the battlefield on chariots.

Are White Lions the personal bodyguards of the Phoenix King or wansy drizzt do'urden rangers.

[Xilbalba]

Ok thats fair enough but I still think a White Lion of Chrace with a pet lion is just a very weak, cliche idea. Hopefully I'll enjoy killing them even more for it though :o

*Slams some change on the table*

I second that. I'll be taking out those lions first like they should have been done when they were still cubs! (Overly harsh? :p)

Edit: Oh I forgot to add I see the whole process of a white lion hunting the lion as an allusion to the WL's taking on the greater aspects of their prey, a lions courage, strength and skill culminating in the wearing of the pelt which "completes the transformation" if you will. Lots of real world cultures have had similar practices.

Raising a cub though, is like some bleeding heart BS they pulled out of their hats (GW or Mythic) or Jungle Book. Now we have the HE equivalent of Siegfried and Roy...well not much of a stretch there really.

[Gemini]

No where does it say that white lions bond and work like a pair on the battlefield. Yes they need to have some trainers who can train the white lions to be fielded on the battlefield on chariots.

You musta miss part of what he quoted, I guess.

these 'tame' white lions swiftly form a bond with the Chracian hunters that foster them. Thereafter these cubs are known as War Lions, for they make formidable weapons upon the battlefield."

The underlined portions show they say exactly what you said they didn't say.

As for the White Lions taming the cubs, I agree it's kinda cliche, but it'll make a pretty sweet class.

[wis]

You musta miss part of what he quoted, I guess.



The underlined portions show they say exactly what you said they didn't say.

As for the White Lions taming the cubs, I agree it's kinda cliche, but it'll make a pretty sweet class.

Except i said they dont bond and work as a pair on the battlefield in the sense you are my fluffy companion whom i sleep and eat with all day and night.

[Eisenwolff]

Well looks like it's really gonna be the White Lion
Or is there another reason for this banner at the Dreamhack
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/2945/dh07ah9.jpg

[thelastlogan]

If you'd played a pet class before you'd know that that is a very good thing ;D

its going to be diffrent because white lion does melee damage... you are pretty much splitting up your health and damage with your pet, the enemie attacks you you get killed easier than you would if you had all the health. if your pet gets killed first you lose damage done to the enemie and you will die easier...

see my point?

[Gemini]

Except i said they dont bond and work as a pair on the battlefield in the sense you are my fluffy companion whom i sleep and eat with all day and night.

Okay, so, since we never sleep and and all that anyway, the lion can go in a cage while your logged off, and it's only released when you log on for battle.

[mongoose]

I like how naysayers will take my words as a direct attack on themselves and retaliate with scorn and sarcasm. Regardless, my opinion is all I put out there and a list of reasons why I think it's so. If you don't agree fine, if you jump down my throat that's your problem. And like some on this forum have speculated Mythic references rules from 4th not 7th.

Actually Mythic has said that they are using ALL of the source material as possible reference. This could mean going as far back as 4th ed info and as recent as the 7thed HE army book. In fact the White lion info shows for a fact they are clearly not just using 4th ed. ;)

[Xilbalba]

Actually Mythic has said that they are using ALL of the source material as possible reference. This could mean going as far back as 4th ed info and as recent as the 7thed HE army book. In fact the White lion info shows for a fact they are clearly not just using 4th ed. ;)

Yeah I know, which is why I said they could use and probably do use whatever version they wanted in an earlier post. My point is just that the idea is a weak cover for having an order pet class. Then again it's not like they can have dwarven hammerers with...robotic wheelchair pets? Badow! :p

Oh and I still don't see them referencing the lions as being used for anything but pulling chariots in 7th. I don't have the army book so I really don't know. If anyone does or is privy to that info please share thks.

[wellsy]

The 7th Ed. Army Book does imply that the lions are used primarily for drawing the chariots, but I understand that they imply a lot more in terms of their possible uses.

As for the White Lion class... given the new career mastery thing, might it not be possible for there to be an option where you don't get a pet at all? You have the option of a pet or no pet, and get access to abilities exclusive to that choice (eg no pet WL would get powerful finishes that he'd do himself, while a pet WL will get finishes that are different and use both him and his pet for it).

And there was also a suggestion in another thread that if the lion gets killed, that the WL goes into a berserker rage of some kind.

I think it could work well, and I honestly can't see too much lore-bending (there was very little previously mentioned about the lions themselves, and now we have the lion chariots etc, so I se it working).

[Xilbalba]

As for the White Lion class... given the new career mastery thing, might it not be possible for there to be an option where you don't get a pet at all? You have the option of a pet or no pet, and get access to abilities exclusive to that choice (eg no pet WL would get powerful finishes that he'd do himself, while a pet WL will get finishes that are different and use both him and his pet for it).

And there was also a suggestion in another thread that if the lion gets killed, that the WL goes into a berserker rage of some kind.

I think it could work well, and I honestly can't see too much lore-bending (there was very little previously mentioned about the lions themselves, and now we have the lion chariots etc, so I se it working).

I like the way you think, that might placate me and my rabid anti-lion stance. But seeing how intrinsic the squig is to the SH I doubt it, at most they're likely to just lessen the effect of the lion instead of getting rid of it completely. Just please god...don't let them braid the lions hair...please.

[Gemini]

The 7th Ed. Army Book does imply that the lions are used primarily for drawing the chariots, but I understand that they imply a lot more in terms of their possible uses.

As for the White Lion class... given the new career mastery thing, might it not be possible for there to be an option where you don't get a pet at all? You have the option of a pet or no pet, and get access to abilities exclusive to that choice (eg no pet WL would get powerful finishes that he'd do himself, while a pet WL will get finishes that are different and use both him and his pet for it).

And there was also a suggestion in another thread that if the lion gets killed, that the WL goes into a berserker rage of some kind.

I think it could work well, and I honestly can't see too much lore-bending (there was very little previously mentioned about the lions themselves, and now we have the lion chariots etc, so I se it working).

I do think this would be a great idea. I mean, I love the idea of a melee pet class, but it's not everyones thing, and seeing all white lions with a lion would just be... I dunno. I fully support this idea.

[Ceandric]

One thing that I've been thinking on when considering White Lions and their pets in the 7ed army book, is that the white lions in the army book has only been fleshed out in their "battle regiment" role. There has not been too much said concerning white lions travelling alone since that has absolutely no impact on the table top game at all. Having huge lions inbetween the warriors while fighting in ranks can only be detrimental to the discipline, it could even break up the ranks completely. On the other hand, having a lion fighting next to you in smaller engagements can be a great benefit.

[Foofmonger]

I do think this would be a great idea. I mean, I love the idea of a melee pet class, but it's not everyones thing, and seeing all white lions with a lion would just be... I dunno. I fully support this idea.

Another idea could be the reverse.

Some mastery paths could cause you to "lose your lion", for greater meele prowess. (Instead of say getting the use of your lion through a certain mastery path.

[Gemini]

Another idea could be the reverse.

Some mastery paths could cause you to "lose your lion", for greater meele prowess. (Instead of say getting the use of your lion through a certain mastery path.

That would work too. Either way, I'd like to see the lion as something you can have or not have through the career mastery without gimping yourself.

[Avatar Of War]

I see a problem with this lion of thought.. If either of the two paths has even a bit of an advantage, that path will become a primary path.

And honestly in groups most people HATE pet classes.

Pets AI's tend to be very limited and a pet attacking something or someone that it should not (which happens alot) can make or break a team.

I definately see people choosing not to have the pet at higher tiers and only the "Melee hero" branch ever being used.

Which would make the whole point of having a pet class and it being a melee pet class at that, pointless

If your going to have a pet class the pet needs to be an intrinsic part of the class. Xilbaba is trying to have her cake and eat it too. Having a pet class that does not need to use a pet pretty much means its not a pet class.

It becomes a "summon a distraction class" and you might as well just go play EQ and be a play a Shadow Knight"

Because in all honesty thats what you guys are trying to turn a PET CLASS into.

Because a shadow knight is a pet class right? It summons a pet? So that makes it a melee pet class right?


Every one was all excited about having a MELEE PET CLASS... something unique that had never really been done...

Well good job trying to take the pet out of the pet class... Why don't we just rename the White Tigers, the White Knights and get it over with?

[Ranti]

Avatar

"White Lion"

...not "white tiger"....

[Avatar Of War]

Avatar

"White Lion"

...not "white tiger"....

Hey It was a good rant... I cant be bothered with minor technicalities, like the actual name of the class...

Good catch.. I get tigers and lions confused from time to time...

[Dracohouston]

its going to be diffrent because white lion does melee damage... you are pretty much splitting up your health and damage with your pet, the enemie attacks you you get killed easier than you would if you had all the health. if your pet gets killed first you lose damage done to the enemie and you will die easier...

see my point?

This guy hasn't played a pet class.

[Final Valor]

*Slams some change on the table*

I second that. I'll be taking out those lions first like they should have been done when they were still cubs! (Overly harsh? :p)

Edit: Oh I forgot to add I see the whole process of a white lion hunting the lion as an allusion to the WL's taking on the greater aspects of their prey, a lions courage, strength and skill culminating in the wearing of the pelt which "completes the transformation" if you will. Lots of real world cultures have had similar practices.

Raising a cub though, is like some bleeding heart BS they pulled out of their hats (GW or Mythic) or Jungle Book. Now we have the HE equivalent of Siegfried and Roy...well not much of a stretch there really.


I think raising and in turn taming a freaking LION, and not just any lion but a White Lion at that, can be a lot more than just some bleeding heart BS. These aren't housecats, these are powerful predators that more than earned their reputation. The fact that White Lions must kill one as an initiation rite more than proves that. Just because they fight alongside a High Elf as opposed to against one doesn't change that. Taking a beast that's so renowned for it's strength and savagery that it's regarded as the king of all beasts and turning it to your will says quite a bit about the tamer themselves.

In fact, if the zone description for Chrace is anything to go by, the taming of a White Lion could just be a continuation of your own views on the White Lion's hunt being all about taking on the aspects of the lion, "Sometimes a bond forms between the lion and his master, and they accept one another as equals." Equals in strength, savagery, and skill, a king of the wild and a king of the battlefield join together to become one nearly unstoppable force.

I think it all works quite well together and doesn't have to degrade the White Lion's inherent badassery at all. A little cliché? Sure, but most things nowadays are. Where Warhammer succeeds most is in taking those clichés and making them as awesome as possible.

[Deshiva]

Damn it. Now we are going to see Drizzt Do'Urdens and Guenhwyvars

First off Drizzt is not strong, he didn't wield a two handed axe and guen is not a lion. So you thinking it will somehow become a new fad for the hyped kids is probably not that accurate. As much as I know where all the cries for wolf comes from things are becoming silly. Just because it's an elf it doesn't mean people will make a fan char out of it.

And if mythic has a stance to popular names anywher near WoW we won't see much if any of names like legolazzz or drizzztttt. And even if we do, well you could always specialise in killing the other side's pests and they will return the favor. :rolleyes:

[Xilbalba]

I think raising and in turn taming a freaking LION, and not just any lion but a White Lion at that, can be a lot more than just some bleeding heart BS. These aren't housecats, these are powerful predators that more than earned their reputation. The fact that White Lions must kill one as an initiation rite more than proves that. Just because they fight alongside a High Elf as opposed to against one doesn't change that. Taking a beast that's so renowned for it's strength and savagery that it's regarded as the king of all beasts and turning it to your will says quite a bit about the tamer themselves.

In fact, if the zone description for Chrace is anything to go by, the taming of a White Lion could just be a continuation of your own views on the White Lion's hunt being all about taking on the aspects of the lion, "Sometimes a bond forms between the lion and his master, and they accept one another as equals." Equals in strength, savagery, and skill, a king of the wild and a king of the battlefield join together to become one nearly unstoppable force.

I think it all works quite well together and doesn't have to degrade the White Lion's inherent badassery at all. A little cliché? Sure, but most things nowadays are. Where Warhammer succeeds most is in taking those clichés and making them as awesome as possible.

Come on, read between the lines people, I didn't say the fact that they were lions would be BS what I said was the fact that the white lions would even take a cub under their wing is BS. Now this is 7th where apparently they pull chariots but normally if you were really respectful or merciful you'd just kill the damn cubs because they're going to end up ala Seigfried and Roy under your gentle care anyways.

So unless the HE's are mad murdering psychopaths that allow their WL's to fully develop by starving them and having them hunt slaves and random strangers (DE's anyone?), then I really don't think that developmentally these lions would be any different from well fed kittens at the zoo, not killing machines in action. Besides it's called "taming" cause you can't have these savage dangerous beasts running wild like they're suppose to so you make them docile...you know so they can pull chariots and jump through hoops of fire and such. I guess what I'm trying to say is that yes it does degrade the inherent badassery of the WL's when they are raised by elves...posh elves.

Buy hey, hypothetically I suppose we could have several hundred "friendly" white lions running around Charace "roughing it up" and hunting their own game (with their masters shadowing them) until they run into another White lion hunter who well pretty much kills and skins them for their pelts. ;)

The whole thing smacks of a disney channel special where animals take on humane qualities and lock arms with their childhood buddies while doing the cha-cha-cha.

[Final Valor]

Come on, read between the lines people, I didn't say the fact that they were lions would be BS what I said was the fact that the white lions would even take a cub under their wing is BS. Now this is 7th where apparently they pull chariots but normally if you were really respectful or merciful you'd just kill the damn cubs because they're going to end up ala Seigfried and Roy under your gentle care anyways.

So unless the HE's are mad murdering psychopaths that allow their WL's to fully develop by starving them and having them hunt slaves and random strangers (DE's anyone?), then I really don't think that developmentally these lions would be any different from well fed kittens at the zoo, not killing machines in action. Besides it's called "taming" cause you can't have these savage dangerous beasts running wild like they're suppose to so you make them docile...you know so they can pull chariots and jump through hoops of fire and such. I guess what I'm trying to say is that yes it does degrade the inherent badassery of the WL's when they are raised by elves...posh elves.

Buy hey, hypothetically I suppose we could have several hundred "friendly" white lions running around Charace "roughing it up" and hunting their own game (with their masters shadowing them) until they run into another White lion hunter who well pretty much kills and skins them for their pelts. ;)

The whole thing smacks of a disney channel special where animals take on humane qualities and lock arms with their childhood buddies while doing the cha-cha-cha.

Tame or docile doesn't necessarily mean weak, it can simply mean that something is open to suggestion and learning. Just look at trained guard and attack dogs. Tame as any other dog, perhaps even more so, however they're simply trained to use their natural capabilities to apply a physical force that humans are simply incapable of, and all of this only at the word of their masters.

It's obvious the White Lions respect their namesakes as worthy adversaries. So, when given the chance, why kill a cub when you can instead raise it to become a powerful ally? They don't just make them into pets, they train them to become weapons of war. When things are as dire as they are in the Warhammer world you don't waste power like that on a cool show pet. Beyond that, you don't have to mistreat an animal like you described to get it to follow your commands, even if those commands are to attack. It just takes proper discipline and obedience, traits the High Elves have in abundance. You don't have to "cut out" the ferocity and strength of the cat, you just have to train it to be capable of channeling that aggression towards objectives that you want out of your way, and only when you desire it to do so.

Lets also not forget to mention that the Elves of Chrace already have a reputation for taming other creatures to be powerful companions in times of war. Take Griffon's as an example. Griffons that are carefully raised from birth can come to be very formidable and majestic mounts, willing to charge directly into the heat battle along with their Elven masters. They’re hardly mistreated or house pets by any means.

Thus, they've already shown a talent for taking the wild beasts of the land and turning them to their needs. I think based on this track record the taming of White Lions makes perfect sense as a way to gain further military advantage over their foes. The White Lions simply saw the true potential of their namesake beyond being a simple rite of passage and decided to use that potential to further their own causes.

They might be posh elves, but they're posh elves that'll absolutely tear you to shreds in battle. Having an actual White Lion at their side just means you might be in a few more pieces when they get finished with you than you would have originally.

[Xilbalba]

Well any trainer will tell you the difference between a well trained dog and a maneating lion and even then dogs are known to attack their trainers.

These are meat eaters, the hunt, it's in their nature, does that mean you can't capture one and train it to behave? No. but it does mean that during the training process you lose the majority of what makes it a deadly and proficient hunter. You lose it's natural instinct of do or die survival, and it's ability.

Besides, how do you train a lion to be a weapon of war when it's very natural instinct is to rip you to shreds? You abuse the crap out of it, you teach it to fear and obey you and to attack anything you tell it to (evoke images of lions in cages and whips). You don't develop a merry little bond with it and go strolling through the woods looking for evil doers. What you imply sounds like having your cake and eating it too. It's about obedience, you don't want the lion to do whatever it wants you want it to do whatever you want.

You have to admit that domesticating a lion invariably takes away from the savage majesty of the beast in the wild. What was originally legendary and iconic to the WL's (as a symbol of freedom and strength) is now just another tool in the HE arsenal to be used...and disposed of as you please. Nothing fantastic about that except the feeling that you've dominated another vicious beast and bent it to your will, might as well call yourself a DE and start wearing black.

Edit: Meh after rereading my post I figure hell it's warhammer, damn elves probably use magic or something or just by the virtue of being elves animals flock to fight for them in droves anyways. Regardless, my disney special comment stays. :p

[Swarm]

Speaking of disney comments, your suggestion of how taming wild animals works sure sounds like a stereotypical evil disney villain to me.

[Xilbalba]

Speaking of disney comments, your suggestion of how taming wild animals works sure sounds like a stereotypical evil disney villain to me.

Ahhh your getting it now, lock hands and we'll go for a dance.

Look up the word domestication, hell here's a link and since we're on the topic of dogs (they were once wolves ya know ;)).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taming

If you cared to focus on my main point you would see that my problem with the WL having a lion, concept, is that once you bring them into the arsenal as a tool of war the next logical step is to stock up on these war machines. It takes away from the lore of the lions, but damn I've been arguing this point for days now and some people see it some people don't. In the end it's not really gonna matter, just some conversation to pass the time. The training bit is more like how dogs are trained for a pitfight not like how sentry dogs are trained for police or military work (then again they don't kill either).

As a side note to the snarky individual above me I would love to see a disney special where a villan starves and otherwise tortures a lion cub so he can get the thing to kill for him, there's a reason it's called Disney. Now maybe some other movie portrayed something similar but I'm pretty sure Walt didn't have a hand in it. You misunderstood what I was referencing but it was a good shot, couldn't have done better myself. :cool:

Edit: oh shoot look what I just found! They should have that as a mechanic for the WL's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tank_dog

[wellsy]

Remember Xilbaba, that Archmages are also a class. They are the most powerful and most rare of the Elven mages, and so I think it is safe to say that we're not playing run of the mill soldiers from Chrace, but rather soldiers from one of the most exclusive and elite regiments in all of Ulthuan. Thus, "stockpiling" wouldn't be necessary as you claim, because the White Lions are few and number. They also worship Kurnous, God of the Hunt, and if they do not need something, they will not take it. Thus, the lions themselves will only be taken and raised when needed, and not just be used until they die.

You also seem to have misunderstood what Valor said - wild Griffons can be compared to white lions in terms of how dangerous they are. And yet, a griffon trained from birth is almost as tough and dangerous as a dragon (maybe not in the fire-breathing, scaly skinned "I'll make a barbeque out of you" dangerous, but certainly in the "I'll rip you to shreds and make you pee yourself" way). Thus, if a Griffon can retain its fierceness despite being tamed, then we can apply the same rule to the lions.

[Xilbalba]

Remember Xilbaba, that Archmages are also a class. They are the most powerful and most rare of the Elven mages, and so I think it is safe to say that we're not playing run of the mill soldiers from Chrace, but rather soldiers from one of the most exclusive and elite regiments in all of Ulthuan. Thus, "stockpiling" wouldn't be necessary as you claim, because the White Lions are few and number. They also worship Kurnous, God of the Hunt, and if they do not need something, they will not take it. Thus, the lions themselves will only be taken and raised when needed, and not just be used until they die.

You also seem to have misunderstood what Valor said - wild Griffons can be compared to white lions in terms of how dangerous they are. And yet, a griffon trained from birth is almost as tough and dangerous as a dragon (maybe not in the fire-breathing, scaly skinned "I'll make a barbeque out of you" dangerous, but certainly in the "I'll rip you to shreds and make you pee yourself" way). Thus, if a Griffon can retain its fierceness despite being tamed, then we can apply the same rule to the lions.

What you say is true, I just really don't have any kind of real world equivalent to compare griffons to temperment wise so it's not something that I can really reply to. Griffons being completely made up and white lions being really just color deprived savanah lions. :cool:

But I understand where Final Valor and you are coming from which is why I put in that bit about elves being emphatic with animals of all kinds, and why I said they wouldn't necesasrily not be dangerous, just that certain elements that make the lions legendary are lost once you domesticate an animal (even griffons ;)) hence weakening the lore of the lions themselves.

Hell, all of this is really detracting from my original argument that WL's as a warhammer unit are ill suited to have lion companions following them everywhere they go due to the fact that they are the Kings bodyguards. As the Kings bodyguards you technically shouldn't be galavanting about not protecting the king but hey they need to stretch things for the game. But if like you said it's a "few" WL's who have pets it would be fine, although the fact that every WL running around in game will have one kinda spoils it a bit. It's just more trouble trying to logically explain WL's as a unit and a class in-game than it's worth to put one in imo.

Everything else is just speculation and comparisons with some real world situations from which you can draw certain conclusions from. Are they all necessarily correct? No, but it's all about posts where we have active discussion et al. and why some people feel that the pet fits and why others don't. Your post is indicative that you understand that as is Final Valor's.

Kudo's and cheers.

[Faltina]

Someone say EQ Beastmaster...? :)

[Aweraw]

Some of the posters in this thread really has a weird idea about pet classes...

If you look a Mythics prior MMO, DAoC:

There was several classes that had powerfull use of thier pet, and even though it for most of the classes certainly wasnt an all important part of the class, they were still very strong, and Mythic actually ended up having to nerf the pets.

Several caster classes had summon pets that was almost the level of the caster. These pets played a vital role in interupting in small fights, and they also did a rather big amount of damage, also most of the pets had procs on their attacks, stunning or debuffing the target. And one of them could even intercept attacks against its master, increasing his melee surviability by ALOT.

However i dont expect we will see pets this good in WAR tbh, becuase it was at times highly unbalancing in 1vs1, and still a good aid in 8vs8.

[Raccool]

Anyone stop to think that maybe that won't be what the WL is all about? With the announcement of the Combat Mastery system, it makes me think that the "pet" part of it would be one of the three paths. Therefore, you could have lots of WLs but only some of them would have a pet. There, it all fits within the lore. ;)

[Xilbalba]

Anyone stop to think that maybe that won't be what the WL is all about? With the announcement of the Combat Mastery system, it makes me think that the "pet" part of it would be one of the three paths. Therefore, you could have lots of WLs but only some of them would have a pet. There, it all fits within the lore. ;)

Yeah I hope that's true, this is the one order class that I would really be interested in rolling, but not with a pet.

[Seldaren]

Yeah I hope that's true, this is the one order class that I would really be interested in rolling, but not with a pet.

Why so much ate for the Lion? Lots of folks seem to dislike the White Lion as a pet-class.

I think it could be an extremely interesting dynamic to have a melee-DPS pet-class. And honestly expect the Lion to be part of all three Masteries.
In order to be a true pet-class, the Lion has to be part of all three Masteries.

[Doc Lumbago]

before the swordmaster was announced I was sure the white lion would be Tank

often used as bodyguard
well armoured
axe-bearing

For the pet class option I`m just a bit confused about balancing

White Lion:Capable Damage dealer
armoured
AND having a gigantic lion as a pet?

Just having a "baby white lion" would be the worst way to solve this issue
I hate diminishing charcters for the sake of gameplay balancing

maybe the Lion will be harder to manage than your average sqiug
run off, panic, not attacking the foe you awant him too
There is also a possibility that the lion always stays within a certain range of the WL
( reducing the RDPS options)

So this could be the Three Paths of the WL:
Liontamer: WL has few Melee abilities but the maximum of possible pet range
and maximum choice of commands including special technics like Neckbreaking Bite,
Throwdown or Intimidating Roar

Fighter:The WL is a strong melee character his pet is close to an untamed beast,
just stays within a certain range, randomly picks his targets, panics if it is attacked
fiercely

Third Path: something inbetween these two. medium melee capabilities plus some
simple lion orders like "Follow Close", "Attack this Guy"

[Avatar Of War]

Why so much ate for the Lion? Lots of folks seem to dislike the White Lion as a pet-class.

I think it could be an extremely interesting dynamic to have a melee-DPS pet-class. And honestly expect the Lion to be part of all three Masteries.
In order to be a true pet-class, the Lion has to be part of all three Masteries.

I'm going to agree with Seldaren on this one.