Archmage: Regular Mana Bar?

[senmance]

So we have the Archmage description (http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/gameInfo/armiesofWAR/HighElves/Careers/Archmage.php) up now and it seems that they changed the way the Archmage operates somewhat from what we've heard in the past (not that we heard much, mind you.)

Initially, I thought the description was saying that Archmages were going to get a see-saw gimmick in which they have to balance their healing/damaging because if they use one too much, it gets really weak while the other gets really strong. Obviously this means if you need a lot of strong heals, you better make sure you are doing some damage so you don't make yourself too weak (which is sorta different than a Shaman who starts off somewhat weak, but then gets stronger as he builds Waagh!)

But now that I've reread it a few times, it seems like Archmanges are getting a typical mana bar? The description just has a lot of extra words in it to make it not seem so plain. I could be wrong, but thats not as fun. :( Anyone else getting the same thing from the description or am I misinterpreting again?

And I wonder where "taps" fit in since they weren't even mentioned. Hrm...

[Dagoth]

From what I read, it seems similar if not exactly the same to shaman´s mechanic.

[Dastion]

From what I read, it seems similar if not exactly the same to shaman´s mechanic.

I had the exact same thought. Shaman Build up Waagh! and Archmages build up a "reserve" of magic because they are casting their offensive spells so efficiently as to "save up" some of their spent magic? Which they then use on healing spells? It's nearly exactly the same, in fact, from what we know.. in basic mechanics it IS the same. You cast offensive spells, build up power, then use it to cast heals.

The only real difference I see it that it seems to imply that Archmages will have some very powerful heals that can only be cast with a certain amount of "reserved" magic.

Eitherway, it's drastically different than the Drain Magic mechanic we've kept hearing about. In fact, the Drain Magic mechanic sounded very interesting and unique while still maintaining the same basic playstyle as a Shaman... this is just Waargh with a bunch of words put around it. Hell, I bet if you asked an Elf to explain Waagh they'd say something very similar to the Archmage description.

[senmance]

Well, the way I saw it initially was:

You cast a heal spell, you get some reserve power for damage spells, but lose some power for heal spells (and the ability to cast better/bigger heal spells).

You cast a damage spell, you get some reserve power for heal spells, but lose some power for damage spells (and the ability to cast better/bigger damage spells).

It is rather similar to Waagh!, but with a slight difference in that it's a see-saw as opposed to Shaman who don't lose Waagh! unless they use a spell that uses up some of it. I think it's a little bit like 3 mana bars; 1 general bar (maybe AP or maybe an extra on top of AP), 1 for heals, and 1 for damage. Using a heal spell drains some general magic, drains some heal magic (if you have any), and puts some into the damage meter for more powerful damage spells.

I dunno, pretty similar to Waagh!, but the description confused me a bit.

[ChosenOne]

Could very well be one mana bar, with the 0 point right in the middle. Have the damage side to the right be colored red and the healing side colored blue to the left. Every damage spell cast causes the line of the bar into the healing side. The opposite affect for healing spells.

The farther into the damage side the line goes the less powerful your heals will be and the more powerful your damage spells will be. Once again the opposite of affect for when the line moves into the heal side of the bar.

keeping it with one bar instead of three makes it much easier to understand without taking up more space on your screen but the idea is based off of yours senmance.

I would agree the mechanism for such is sound and goes along with what we have seen so far.

[BowieHero]

the balance bar is actually interesting. let's hope that that's how it really works.

[wellsy]

And perhaps the drain magic mechanic will be an ability (which will almost certainly get spammed a lot) to top up both bars.

[senmance]

And perhaps the drain magic mechanic will be an ability (which will almost certainly get spammed a lot) to top up both bars.

That's sorta what I was thinking, but nothing says it has to be spammable though. You can use a tap to add to both bars in case one gets too low. This way you could continue to cast in one direction (damage or healing) without weakening yourself into oblivion too quickly (though it will happen eventually unless you balance yourself).

[Yvo]

I'm pretty sure all classes use action points as their pool regardless of what their other mechanics are. They are just added on top of the action points.

[OnyxBMW]

Actually, how I read it was, you just have 2 bars. One bar, the AP bar, is used to fuel low-key spells. These low-end spells slowly fill up your second bar (which may or may not always be at full between battles). This second bar, then, is used to fuel a wide gamut of spells, not just healing spells.

In other words, you cast normal spells to fuel a rage bar, that is then used to fuel extremely powerful spells. Them using a heal spell as their example is just coincidence, I think.

"An Archmage is a powerful caster both offensively and defensively. However they must strive to keep a balance between the powers they manipulate. Weaving only powerful healing or destructive spells will leave the Archmage tired and unable to assist his allies in their darkest hour. However by carefully applying force in critical places the Archmage can reserve a wellspring of magical energy that allows him to aid his allies when a normal mage would be all but spent. " (Source: http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/gameInfo/armiesofWAR/HighElves/Careers/Archmage.php)

If you note the wording "Weaving only powerful healing or destructive spells" etc etc, they didn't say just healing, while still referring to their reserve of power. I doubt it will be a see-saw like what shamans have, but instead a balancing act between trying to balance lesser spells with greater ones, where you have damage and healing abilities from both categories.

[Communism]

yeah, i agree, for some reason it reminds me of a rage bar of some sorts

but either way i'm curious to see how it will work

[Loomdun]

To sum it up in comparisons in class.

I think the way a archmage will work is there Powerful spells will be in a rage bar such as a warrior from WoW. But unlike a warrior from WoW it only builds up on casting and is considered your "arcane mana pool"

Then, you have your action point abilities which do not require the arcane mana pool, which you will be using more often. which regenerates like everyone elses (as a rogue in WoW)

So in other words the archmage will stick some to the lore I think, they Will be amazingly powerful, But there power also dosn't climb upwards like others. having a strong start and instead constantly maintaining that power and not dropping unlike a goblin shaman who starts off weaker and climbs up more in power.

I like how the archmage sounds and I'm really interested to see how the defensive spells work

Edit: I forgot to mention, I think another fact is the mana pool will be the means of balance, when you run out of action points, you will start using your arcane pool more, and while you use your arcane pool you will be able to restore your action points without using them. Therefore another part of the balance is maintaining both your arcane pool and your action point pool

Which also means a archmage may be able to last longer in a fight compared to a bright wizard and Chaos magus in stamina of spell slinging when used properly. A mathcrafting class which I am VERY excited for.

[OnyxBMW]

Aye. The description for the Archmage class lends me to believe it will be a very graceful class relying more on intuition and careful planning than button mashing.

However, I really like how they make it seems they can go all out on an enemy (or on their group) for a short period of time if they have to. A group with an archmage in it will probably be impossible to just straight up burst down, due to how this special reserve seems to work, but it will be easy to overwhelm, as it can only provide a stopgap for a few seconds it seems.

That said, though I don't care if they are or aren't a primary DPS class, I honestly doubt they won't be at the top for sheer burst DPS. They won't have sustained DPS, and they sure as hell aren't your go-to guy for DPS, but they seem to be one that, when they need it, they can drop a guy fast, but will be left exhausted and horribly weakened from the process.

[Valkyron]

A group with an archmage in it will probably be impossible to just straight up burst down, due to how this special reserve seems to work, but it will be easy to overwhelm, as it can only provide a stopgap for a few seconds it seems.


That interpretation is consistent with what I got out of the released information.