Shaman vs Other Healers

[Copenhagan]

So I'm curious. In terms of play style and spells, what really sets the Shaman apart from say, the Zealot, Runepriest or Archmage? What does a Shaman have that the others don't. I won't lie, my research is lacking, but to me it looks like they are all just a different type of ranged healer with select offensive spells.

Maybe not so much the Runepriest, since the Ruin mechanic is a little different, but is playing as a Shaman really going to feel that much different then playing as an Archmage or Zealot?

Looking for some discussion, or some hard facts. :)

[Rowhin]

Well, the mechanic of the Shaman is actually pretty close to that of the Warrior Priest.

I suggest you take a look over here:
http://warhammerinfo.com/c-shaman.shtml

See how some abilites use Waaagh! and some build up Waaagh! ?
That is pretty much the mechanic of the Shaman. You use certain abilites to build Waaagh! so that the ones who spend WAAAGH! become more effective...faster, harder, more healative or whatever.

The Warrior Priest has a similar, though not quite identical mechanic called Righteous Fury.

Now the Archmage, for instance, sets aside a little healing energy with each offensive spell he casts. That means he has to do offensive first, before he can heal. The Shaman on the other hand might be able to heal from the start, but more effectively if he uses other abilites first.

Oh, and btw, it is Runepriest...not Ruinpriest ;)

[Copenhagan]

Firstly, thanks for the link. I'll be sure to read it.

Secondly, edited for that spelling. My bad. Haha.

[Foofmonger]

Firstly, thanks for the link. I'll be sure to read it.

Secondly, edited for that spelling. My bad. Haha.

Personally I think Shaman will play much more like Archmages, then Warrior Priests.

They are both ranged casters, have a lot of good damaging options, the Waaagh mechanic is similar to the archmages secondary power pool effect (although not exactly).

Seems to make much more sense the lumping the Shaman in with a meele healer.

[ChosenOne]

Personally I think Shaman will play much more like Archmages, then Warrior Priests.

They are both ranged casters, have a lot of good damaging options, the Waaagh mechanic is similar to the archmages secondary power pool effect (although not exactly).

Seems to make much more sense the lumping the Shaman in with a meele healer.

Actually I feel as if the warrior priest is closer in nature to the archmage then either are to the shaman.

Shaman can cast all their spells no matter how much waagh they got. The waagh just makes them more powerful.


Many of the WP abilities are not usable till you have the proper righteous fury built up. The same is quite possibly true for the archmage.

Yes of course one is melee and one is ranged but that isnt mechanics, thats placement.

[Foofmonger]

Many of the WP abilities are not usable till you have the proper righteous fury built up. The same is quite possibly true for the archmage.

Yes of course one is melee and one is ranged but that isnt mechanics, thats placement.

Actually, its called playstyle. I am all about examining playstyles, and not trying to discuss whose mechanics are similar.

The WP will play nothing like a Shaman, I guarantee you. The shaman will be nuking from a distance, debuffing his foes, building his Waaagh, and then tossing heals.

Much like the Archmage, who will be nuking from a distance to power up his heals, and then using said power for healing.

Yes, Waaagh makes things cheaper, but we don't exactly know how the secondary pool for the archmage works at this time. One thing is clear between all three of these classes, that if they don't do any damage, their heals will stink.

The WP will wade into battle, smacking peoples faces in to build enough RF to be effective. If a meele class jumps a shaman or an archmage, they will try to kite him. If a meele class jumps a WP, he will start smacking them back and healing himself.

[Copenhagan]

So from what I've read on the site linked in the first reply (thanks again by the way, VERY informative, it's been bookmarked) it seems like the Warrior Priest and the Shaman will use a similar mechanic in terms of gaining power, however one will spend it on melee abilities where as the other is a ranged spell caster.

Similar mechanics but play styles set them apart. I like it.

[ChosenOne]

So I'm curious. In terms of play style and spells, what really sets the Shaman apart from say, the Zealot, Runepriest or Archmage? What does a Shaman have that the others don't. I won't lie, my research is lacking, but to me it looks like they are all just a different type of ranged healer with select offensive spells.

Maybe not so much the Runepriest, since the Ruin mechanic is a little different, but is playing as a Shaman really going to feel that much different then playing as an Archmage or Zealot?

Looking for some discussion, or some hard facts. :)

what really sets the Shaman apart from say, the Zealot, Runepriest or Archmage?


The Shaman's spells are empowered by waagh but not governed by it. Thus I would say the shaman has more choices right off the bat but probably not quite as powerful as some of its contemporaries such as the Archmage or the Warrior Priest.

The shaman is very much different from the Zealot and Runepriest. These two have ground affects. Spells directed to a position on the ground and have an area of continuous affect. Runepriests are heavy heavy healers and buffers. Zealots are heavy on the debuffs. Some of such heal, some damage, and some are more traditional debuffs that also buff your allies at the same time.


but is playing as a Shaman really going to feel that much different then playing as an Archmage or Zealot?


Compared to the Archmage it really depends on how deep you look into the character. If you wish to look at it like foof suggests and see it only for standing back and casting spells, some offensive and some defensive then yes there isnt much difference at all except for height, skin color and clothing tastes. But if you wish to look at the exact spells and abilities and how it fits in with everyone else on your side then yes there is a very distinct difference. They are not duplicates of each other.

Now to compare it to the zealot, my god they are very different. You couldnt just hop from one into the other and instantly know how to play it properly. While they may be in the same Archtype, they are quite different when compared.

[ChosenOne]

So from what I've read on the site linked in the first reply (thanks again by the way, VERY informative, it's been bookmarked) it seems like the Warrior Priest and the Shaman will use a similar mechanic in terms of gaining power, however one will spend it on melee abilities where as the other is a ranged spell caster.

Similar mechanics but play styles set them apart. I like it.

One major difference between the shaman and WP is that it appears as if the shaman will be able to cast all his spells with or without Waagh. The waagh just makes them more powerful. The Warrior Priest MUST have Righteous Fury built up for certain skills and spells. Once that spell or skill is used that fury is used up and he has to go back to using the fury building skills to open up usage of the high fury cost skills.

Leads me to believe the WP can be much more overpowering but the shaman is a do all at any point in time type of character.

[Evil_Sandwich]

The Zealot is much like the Runepriest

Runepriest uses magical runes to buff/debuff.

Zealots use Harbringers, which correct me if I am mistaken, work much like runes in that they are placed on the ground?

[ChosenOne]

The Zealot is much like the Runepriest

Runepriest uses magical runes to buff/debuff.

Zealots use Harbringers, which correct me if I am mistaken, work much like runes in that they are placed on the ground?

Close. Zealots use Rituals and place those upon the ground. Those have a wide area of affect. Then when an enemy runs into the ritual area the zealot can cast a harbringer on him and he instantly begins to feel the affect of the ritual as long as he is in the ritual area of affect.

If we remember way back to the early information given zealots also have marks. These they place on an ally.

So say the harbringer on an enemy is a life draining one. A portion of that life drained away then goes to the ally that is marked.

The zealots are masters of these multi-affects thus why their rituals will become major ground terrain denial techniques.

[Copenhagan]

One major difference between the shaman and WP is that it appears as if the shaman will be able to cast all his spells with or without Waagh. The waagh just makes them more powerful. The Warrior Priest MUST have Righteous Fury built up for certain skills and spells. Once that spell or skill is used that fury is used up and he has to go back to using the fury building skills to open up usage of the high fury cost skills.

Leads me to believe the WP can be much more overpowering but the shaman is a do all at any point in time type of character.

Alright, I had assumed that the WP was the same in that Righteous Fury made their abilities more powerful. Apparently not the case, that's awesome. Thanks. :)

[Foofmonger]

I wasn't takling about "being duplicates", I don't know where people get this idea.

I'm stating that the classes will have a similar playstyle. Meaning that you function in a similar way, and not that you have carbon copy abilities and cast the same exact spells.

Of course both the archmage are ranged magic using units that both need to do damage and heal to be effective. I don't even think you can make an argument against this really. The point is that I am not trying to say that because these classes have a similar playstyle, that they have the exact same playstyle.

[Evil_Sandwich]

Close. Zealots use Rituals and place those upon the ground. Those have a wide area of affect. Then when an enemy runs into the ritual area the zealot can cast a harbringer on him and he instantly begins to feel the affect of the ritual as long as he is in the ritual area of affect.


Damn. At least I tried :) Thanks for the info though.

[Varcan]

Close. Zealots use Rituals and place those upon the ground. Those have a wide area of affect. Then when an enemy runs into the ritual area the zealot can cast a harbringer on him and he instantly begins to feel the affect of the ritual as long as he is in the ritual area of affect.

This is actually not what we've been told/seen at all unless there is some new build I don't know about. Harbingers are a seperate cast from the Dark Rituals, and are placed on only 1 target at a time. Dark Ritual come in 2 forms to this point. One type that can be placed on the ground and then effects any one in the area, as long as they're in that area. Another type can be placed on the Harbinger bearer(you'd have to cast the Harbinger on that person first), the Dark Ritual then effects that person and possibly other players within a certain distance of that person.

[Foofmonger]

This is actually not what we've been told/seen at all unless there is some new build I don't know about. Harbingers are a seperate cast from the Dark Rituals, and are placed on only 1 target at a time. Dark Ritual come in 2 forms to this point. One type that can be placed on the ground and then effects any one in the area, as long as they're in that area. Another type can be placed on the Harbinger bearer(you'd have to cast the Harbinger on that person first), the Dark Ritual then effects that person and possibly other players within a certain distance of that person.

You can have multiple harbringers up on differet targets though right?

[ChosenOne]

This is actually not what we've been told/seen at all unless there is some new build I don't know about. Harbingers are a seperate cast from the Dark Rituals, and are placed on only 1 target at a time. Dark Ritual come in 2 forms to this point. One type that can be placed on the ground and then effects any one in the area, as long as they're in that area. Another type can be placed on the Harbinger bearer(you'd have to cast the Harbinger on that person first), the Dark Ritual then effects that person and possibly other players within a certain distance of that person.


You are correct, dark rituals and harbringers are seperate casts. I only knew of the dark rituals you place on a point of the ground but hey, I dont claim to know everything there could very well be a second form.

But I am pretty sure you dont place dark rituals on harbringer bearers. Harbringer bears become surrounded by those raven looking birds and thus they become affected by the dark rituals.

I do believe each zealot can only have one type of dark ritual up but they can make more harbringers. Thing is I do believe and hope that harbringers bring upon the affects of multiple rituals if you have multiple zealots. Imagine the destruction of a group of zealots can bring forth in a rather quick amount of time. Yeah, when you see multiple rituals all over the place and everyone getting nailed with harbringers.....its time to find a different tactic other then frontal assault.

[Mohko]

From the early ability list shaman seemed to have a bit more cc abilities than zealot but that might have changed by now.

[Delillo]

http://www.war-resource.com/careers/shaman.php

this site is showing a group run speed buff. (8 seconds of 50% move increase - speed waaagh for greater duration) If this makes it into the game it could be pretty class defining.

[Myling]

Shamans got da Fists of Gork! :D

Uh, and Eeek!

[Foofmonger]

http://www.war-resource.com/careers/shaman.php

this site is showing a group run speed buff. (8 seconds of 50% move increase - speed waaagh for greater duration) If this makes it into the game it could be pretty class defining.

I doubt it, it doesn't seem that even with Waaagh build up, it lasts very long.

So you would generally have two uses for it.

Charging towards fleeing opponents. However, since it only lasts 8 seconds, you would have to use it pretty close anyway.

Fleeing (which seems to be its intended use). And if you are needing to retreat, you might not be in the best situation (or just as a general self kiting tool for the shammy).

Either way, doesn't seem very class defining to me.

[Lucrece]

I doubt it, it doesn't seem that even with Waaagh build up, it lasts very long.

So you would generally have two uses for it.

Charging towards fleeing opponents. However, since it only lasts 8 seconds, you would have to use it pretty close anyway.

Fleeing (which seems to be its intended use). And if you are needing to retreat, you might not be in the best situation (or just as a general self kiting tool for the shammy).

Either way, doesn't seem very class defining to me.

Actually, 8 seconds is quite significant. 50% extra speed will make focus trains far more effective, being essentially harder to slow down alla frost trap that hunters use in WoW. It could make the difference on whether you can stick to a target enough to kill it or not, and it could also go the other way, making a difference whether you can create enough space to avoid damage, get healed up, and survive a focus train or not.

[Delillo]

I'll stick by my assessment that this would be a very powerful ability.

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Image:%22Charge%21%22.jpg

warranted an elite slot in Guild Wars (meaning it was the most important skill on your 8 skill bar).

[Yvo]

Doesn't it also increase the damage of the next attack for everyone in the party? Sounds like it will be pretty neat.

[Tzepic]

I think that the Shaman will be the best raw healers on Destruction side, granted they keep in a good supply of WAAAGH!!! Also they have debuffs but won't be as good of a debuffer as the Zealot and their CC will also be pretty noteable.