Sorc dark magic mechanic

[Newmaidumosa]

I must say I am very excited about this class....but I am not too sure about the how the mechanics of the use of dark magic.

Basically I dont like the random element involved..and I think it might be really hard for them to balance properly... but maybe they will set it up to be like the reverse of Crit so you will be able to spec and gear against it which would be rather cool.

[Tooeasy]

Or maybe you just have to learn the class, it's more skill then to just fire spells all the time, but you acctually have to think wether you should cast a spell or not and which spells you want to use.

They'll probably deal more damage then the magus if it's a ranged dps, but then have the chance to damage themselves.

[ManiaCCC]

Sorc is one of the class, where everyone can see who can play his/her class perfectly and who is "noob". And i like it.

[Shillen]

Sorc is one of the class, where everyone can see who can play his/her class perfectly and who is "noob". And i like it.

No, they actually can't. If you get blown up it could have just been pure bad luck. If they leave the mechanic as Paul stated it then I hope "blowing up" is actually only minor damage taken and not instant death or anything like that. I would prefer if the randomness was just taken out completely so that if you hit a certain threshold you cannot nuke again or you will blow up. Randomly blowing up is not good.

[Salka Valka]

are you excited? Is this a healer or dps? did you like the picture?

[Waboose]

I love it!

I see it as an increasing crit chance type mechanic. Where you may have a bad luck meter building up where you chance of damaging yourself increases and so does the severity of the damage as you keep going without cooling down.

This would make this class a Burst DPS class that can deal a crap load of damage in short time but sustained long term DPS drops off because of cool down time.

Fun and interesting but not sure if it's what I want to do...

[reasto]

I must say I am very excited about this class....but I am not too sure about the how the mechanics of the use of dark magic.

Basically I dont like the random element involved..and I think it might be really hard for them to balance properly... but maybe they will set it up to be like the reverse of Crit so you will be able to spec and gear against it which would be rather cool.

So, instead of embracing one of the most innovative ranged DPS classes to hit the MMO scene in years, you complain about not being 100% in control of your character 100% of the time? You really must hate CC.

[DarkDweller]

I think the details are a bit sketchy to start making strong assumptions about the play mechanics of the sorcerer. The podcast was a bit vague. The impression I got though, was that the emphasis was on skill and tactical play, with a small random factor involved.

I would be surprised if they designed it so that you had a 50% chance of exploding each and every time you loosed off some dark magic into someone's face.

[Disciple]

the mechanic sounds pretty good. it sounds very involved witha lot of tricks one can do to keep going and not die.

but im curious if the magic explosion will damage others around you?

if this is true, i think we'll see a lot of kamikaze tactics to break turtles.

[Chilltouch]

It's not in character for the Sorcerors, that's the problem.

Give it to shaman, maybe.
Or maybe even the Magi.

Because, really - I don't see the Dark Elves as people who pop their brains with magical energy.

[Emeraldw99]

It's not in character for the Sorcerors, that's the problem.

Give it to shaman, maybe.
Or maybe even the Magi.

Because, really - I don't see the Dark Elves as people who pop their brains with magical energy.

"It's Chaos baby." Thats sums it up right there. Dark Magic is grabbing the raw winds of magic and bending it to your will. This is dangerous, really dangerous and makes sense. For a DPS, this mechanic makes sense, for a support character, not so much.

[Chilltouch]

If "it's Chaos, baby", then it'd be much more fitting with Magi. I see the Dark Elves as using more refined and carefully manipulated magic rather than throwing about dark powers and raw energy with reckless abandon.

[RexT]

So, instead of embracing one of the most innovative ranged DPS classes to hit the MMO scene in years, you complain about not being 100% in control of your character 100% of the time? You really must hate CC.

The sorceresses' mechanics are far from innovative, and at this point sounds pretty stupid. However, I don't think it will be as "random" as we think it is, because that would just plain silly. Most likely you will have a gauge that fills up every time you use magic and after you fill up past a certain point every spell cast after that increases the chance of a backfire. Basically, if your "Dark Magic Gauge" is 4 inches long then the last inch would be the "danger zone" where you have a chance to take damage. If you are capable of triggering a backfire at any point on the gauge then the Sorceress would be "one of the dumbest ranged DPS classes to hit the MMO scene in years."

[Ashanor]

The sorceresses' mechanics are far from innovative, and at this point sounds pretty stupid. However, I don't think it will be as "random" as we think it is, because that would just plain silly. Most likely you will have a gauge that fills up every time you use magic and after you fill up past a certain point every spell cast after that increases the chance of a backfire. Basically, if your "Dark Magic Gauge" is 4 inches long then the last inch would be the "danger zone" where you have a chance to take damage. If you are capable of triggering a backfire at any point on the gauge then the Sorceress would be "one of the dumbest ranged DPS classes to hit the MMO scene in years."

I agree Rext, and I think that is the only real way to do it.

[Quazar]

The randomness is what makes it hilarious. The Dark Gods are fickle, sometimes they just like to blow people's heads off. There will have to be serious damage bonuses for the sorcerer since he's risking his head getting blown off but that would be rotflmao.

Obviously there will be a danger zone thing, they couldn't be a useful class if they could loss their head at ANY time. But wouldn't be awesome to see the sorcerer go for it, survive, then get his head blown off the next time he barely breaks the danger zone?

[Chilltouch]

That's the thing though - sorcerors don't get their powers from the Dark Gods, Magi and Zealots do.

Sorcerors are all about refining the darker aspects of all the Winds of Chaos.

[Emeraldw99]

That's the thing though - sorcerors don't get their powers from the Dark Gods, Magi and Zealots do.

Sorcerors are all about refining the darker aspects of all the Winds of Chaos.

Exactly. Protection is granted to the chaos sorcerers from their gods. Dark Elves have no such protection and are bending the winds to their will. Thats dangerous to tell chaos, "do as I say, because I say so." It makes sense to me.

[Chilltouch]

They don't use the raw energy of Chaos though.

Servants of Chaos use raw chaos magic.
The Colleges of Magic manipulate the Winds of Magic.
The Elves take and refine the Winds of Magic to an even greater extent.

In that case, I severely hope that Archmages and Bright Wizards also get their heads blown off when they cast spells. Because they use 'raw chaos energy' just as much as Sorcerors do.

[Emeraldw99]

They don't use the raw energy of Chaos though.

Servants of Chaos use raw chaos magic.
The Colleges of Magic manipulate the Winds of Magic.
The Elves take and refine the Winds of Magic to an even greater extent.

In that case, I severely hope that Archmages and Bright Wizards also get their heads blown off when they cast spells. Because they use 'raw chaos energy' just as much as Sorcerors do.

Alright, I'll try another way. It's subtle, but there is a difference.

Bright Wizards only use one wind of magic. Humans cannot handle more than one. They do not have the experience to be able to do it. So for them to safely handle magic, it can only be of one school.

High Elves have thousands of years of practice and knowledge to draw from. They are the most practiced spell casters in the old world. They are safe because of this practice and experience.

Chaos Sorcerers have protection from their dark gods, in fact, it is granted to them by them. There is a price to pay for using it, but not the same as this kind. (mutations, insanity...things that don't make a good game play mechanic.)

The shamans, well that is just there for consistent gameplay as you don't want your support guy blowing up do you?

Dark Elves use the magic in it's rawest form like the magi, but have no divine protection and it is not being granted to them. It is being taken from the gods, by force of will to do what they want. Dark Elves have the experience of the high elves in manipulating magic, they just do it through control.

Finally, the magic used isn't always "raw." There is a magic in the world which isn't in it's rawest form making it safer to use. Dark magic, uses it as it's most lethal.

[Newmaidumosa]

So, instead of embracing one of the most innovative ranged DPS classes to hit the MMO scene in years, you complain about not being 100% in control of your character 100% of the time? You really must hate CC.

I think rext has repsondedn nicely to this.. but i would also like to point ou that they idea of a back fire is far from innovative.. (see all Engineer attack weapons in WoW).

there is already enough whine when people lose a fight because .. they got critted just at the end or there was a block... but like i said people spec against/for this.. so it is not that bad.. however adding another element of luck into the game doesnt feel quite right....

what would be nice is if there were ways of managing the instability of your magic. ie when you are in the danger zone you get a one of my different debuffs.. and you have to remove that debuf by casting a certain spell.. etc..

[Sinjin]

I think it's ok. Great power comes with great price, and it might be your life ! I'm sure, that because of this mechanic, sorcerer spells have an ability to be more potent than, say, bright wizards. And obviously those who don't like the "randomness factor", there are plenty of other nice classes for them.

[Arkane]

I just want to put this out there on the topic of being innovative, Blood Mages in Vanguard hurt themselves to do more damage when you reached end game levels, so it isn't exactly new or innovative. Your spells did decent damage but do maximize your damage you had to do damage to yourself and your enemy.

At low levels they got hurt for being in their damage stance which sucked though. For example, at level 39 you would always lose a portion of your health whenever you were in your dps stance. This will not be the case for Sorcs here though.

[Thrakkesh]

Arkane;557395']I just want to put this out there on the topic of being innovative, Blood Mages in Vanguard hurt themselves to do more damage when you reached end game levels, so it isn't exactly new or innovative. Your spells did decent damage but do maximize your damage you had to do damage to yourself and your enemy.

At low levels they got hurt for being in their damage stance which sucked though. For example, at level 39 you would always lose a portion of your health whenever you were in your dps stance. This will not be the case for Sorcs here though.


Nobody wants to remember Vanguard, except as a lesson in how not to make an MMO.

[Arkane]

While everyone understands that the game as a whole was bad, there were good aspects to it.

[Gemini]

Nobody wants to remember Vanguard, except as a lesson in how not to make an MMO.

I disagree. It's a lesson to executives to not force a release before it's ready. Vanguard, from everything I know about it, wasn't a bad game, it just wasn't done.

[Malvos]

Oh look the only mechanic with a downside...

Oh look the only mechanic that hampers a characters ability for long term battles in a game that pushes for longer term battles....

Just about everyone else gets stronger as the battle goes on... sorcerers rain destruction and then have to go sit down somewhere and have a cup of tea....

[Emeraldw99]

Oh look the only mechanic with a downside...

Oh look the only mechanic that hampers a characters ability for long term battles in a game that pushes for longer term battles....

Just about everyone else gets stronger as the battle goes on... sorcerers rain destruction and then have to go sit down somewhere and have a cup of tea....

There will be things they can do while cooling down or there will be major positives to their magic. Like it ramps up in damage fast or the base power of each spell is much stronger. I can see some interesting gaming as a Sorcerer.

[Malvos]

There will be things they can do while cooling down or there will be major positives to their magic. Like it ramps up in damage fast or the base power of each spell is much stronger. I can see some interesting gaming as a Sorcerer.

Its still has a very likely chance of limiting the class in terms of long battles which is what WAR is suppose to be about.

Now, it's important to make a distinction. I'm not saying it will be a problem or that I dislike the mechanic. I actually like the idea of it. I'm simply pointing out that from the very vague description we have of the mechanic it has lots of screaming problems such as the effects on long duration battles and the concept of it being the only mechanic with a drawback, sure choppa's may take more damage in berserk or such but they aren't running the risk of slicing one of their limbs off.

Everyone else envision having no one even looking at you and insta gibbing yourself?

[Emeraldw99]

Its still has a very likely chance of limiting the class in terms of long battles which is what WAR is suppose to be about.

Now, it's important to make a distinction. I'm not saying it will be a problem or that I dislike the mechanic. I actually like the idea of it. I'm simply pointing out that from the very vague description we have of the mechanic it has lots of screaming problems such as the effects on long duration battles and the concept of it being the only mechanic with a drawback, sure choppa's may take more damage in berserk or such but they aren't running the risk of slicing one of their limbs off.

Everyone else envision having no one even looking at you and insta gibbing yourself?

That actually sounds like fun ^.^

Well the devil is in the details, your right. The problem is that we only have Pauls excitable explanation so we are running with that. Also we are more than fairly certain there will be very significant positives to offset that very obvious and deadly mechanic. I think the spells will start off stronger or will get stronger very quickly as the risk increases. Also we think the damage will be % based. Random or non random is kinda the question. Personally, the random idea sounds good as long as you control the % damage and the % chance. Like a 50% chance to kill your self is really high, but a 10% chance to kill yourself (or deal severe damage) at full "power" is more reasonable and has a much better chance of letting you deal the damage you need to do, with a reasonable amount of risk. Now in a long term fight you could then hold back and let it go down as you will eventually blow yourself up but if you have to cast, there is a risk but not so much that it's a guarantee.

[Thizz]

my guess is that there will be a spell that acts like a buff that you activate, increasing your damage or something, with the chance of hurting yourself.

whether you can manually remove it or not, iono :/

[Arkane]

He will likely have other spells that are not Dark Magic, spells that do not hurt himself. The only time you gimp your character is when you don't play it right.

[Leadfoot]

I don’t really understand why Mythic gave this mechanic to the Dark Elves and why GW signed off on it. Granted my knowledge of GW lore is a few years old, but ‘back in the day’ of TT there were negative mechanics, but little involving Dark Elves in magic.

Chaos had a random chance for bad things, like disappearing from the battle field or turning into chaos spawn, for botching a spell roll. The random nature of Chaos is such that this makes sense. If anyone were to have a negative mechanic it should be the Chaos classes. Yet the neither Magus nor any other class from Chaos has a negative mechanic in WAR.

Greenskins had a chance to over channel Waaagh magic and have their heads explode. This sounds a lot like what they are giving Dark Elves, but again it came from Greenskin wizards. The Shaman has no negative mechanic is WAR.

The Dark Elf magic in TT was relatively stable compared to the other ’evil’ races; the worse that could really happen was to summon a large black mass of tentacles (don’t remember the exact name of the spell any more) that moved randomly about the battlefield. If you were unfortunate the spell effect could ‘backfire’ and randomly move towards your troops. But really that was about it.

It wasn’t the ‘rawest’ form of Chaos magic; if anything it was the most ‘clean’ (if that could be imagined). More treated like a color of magic. Now maybe they completely changed magic system since I last played, but still.

Skaven aren’t in, so need to talk about them.

But now Dark Elf Sorcerers’ work how Greenskin magic should work. I don’t mind the idea of ‘make a powerful attack at the sacrifice of defense’ but dying does seem to be a high price to pay in an MMO. Some of the best fights I have been in in MMOs have been the drawn out battles, either in PvP or PvE. But in a drawn out fight the Sorceress has to stop and ‘cool off’ in the middle of it? That doesn’t sound fun to me.

Overall I do agree ‘The Devil is in the Details.’ So I want more details!

And I am looking forward to the Dark Elves not having a healer! :rolleyes: Woo Hoo!

[Arkane]

GW signed off on it because Male Sorcs have been in past editions ( 4th edition , if I recall correctly ).

[Kaelius]

Sorc are going to be great!

The mechanic is fine.. if you don’t like the risk of blowing yourself up there is 23 other classes.. . although "carebear" is not one of them...

Seriously I'm freaking excited to get to play a class where the Personal Risk VS. DPS isn’t pre determined like every other freaking class in every other MMO

If I want to go balls to the wall to get the best DPS in the game... at a higher risk of death.. I can do it...

quit crying about having to take some risk to do more dps... this class wont be for everyone..

[Gilead]

I think it captures the Druchii hatred for all things and an utter abandon for their own safety while doing it. What is important is destroying your enemies, that's what hate is all about. What got them to be Dark Elves in the first place was not being in control of their emotions and desires so I think this is pretty logical.