My gun has one bullet !!

[Zether]

Ok, so now we know that this "dark magic" that the sorcerers and sorceresses use, have a mechanic that allows the dark magic to "sometimes" harm, or blow up , the user. Seeing that, no other class has such a harmfull stipulation, does anyone (other than me) think that the DPS should be " Off the M.F.ing Charts"? In other words, if i have to take a 50/50 chance that my magic will kill me instead of you, shouldn't my magic be comparable to an atomic bomb?

[Duty]

Ok, so now we know that this "dark magic" that the sorcerers and sorceresses use, have a mechanic that allows the dark magic to "sometimes" harm, or blow up , the user. Seeing that, no other class has such a harmfull stipulation, does anyone (other than me) think that the DPS should be " Off the M.F.ing Charts"? In other words, if i have to take a 50/50 chance that my magic will kill me instead of you, shouldn't my magic be comparable to an atomic bomb?

I doubt it will instantly kill the sorc when they miscast, that would be a terrible mechanic. Still, with such a disadvantage comes some form of advantage. Either they will be very versatile while maintaining great damage or have the crazy dps you (and I) hope for.

[Swarm]

Yes I would expect some trade-off such as

1. Lower AP costs

2. Larger effects

3. Shorter cast times

I really can't see Mythic making the sorceress a Bright Wizard with a crappy side-effect.

[Duty]

Yes I would expect some trade-off such as

1. Lower AP costs

2. Larger effects

3. Shorter cast times

I really can't see Mythic making the sorceress a Bright Wizard with a crappy side-effect.

Other great tradeoffs. It could be dependent on the individual spell too. There definitely will be some sort of advantage to balance out the effects though.

[Verratensie]

Edit: obviously 10 minutes after a post has been made is too late to get a reply in with an original answer. :(

[Kraven]

This self harm thing, really im normaly into stylish sword fighters like High Elf Swordmasters and stuff, but this self harm, "ohh $"#%!" thing Sorcerers got going really caught my attention, i think ill have to make a alt Sorcerer XD

I think Sorcerers will have indeed very powerfull spells and i think they will have some kinda way of keeping people better at distance than the Bright Wizard for example, since getting killed they do fine by themself....

[Copenhagan]

Gotta agree. Sorcs are probably going to be the most powerful spellcasters, when they aren't hurting themselves. Mad DPS for a short period of time, as opposed to sustained DPS. A very interesting class indeed.

[Talthanis]

What will most likely happen is sorcs will be able to out-dps say, a bright wizard, but the bright wizard will be able to cast more spells more frequently.

And I strongly doubt that by blow them up paul meant drain all of their lifepoints, and if it does then sorcs better be the crazy insane sob nukers for the 4-5 spells they can cast at a time.

They will probably take around 1/4 to 1/2 of their health loss for overcasting or something

[Lint]

Gotta agree. Sorcs are probably going to be the most powerful spellcasters, when they aren't hurting themselves. Mad DPS for a short period of time, as opposed to sustained DPS. A very interesting class indeed.

If they're not, then there's really no point to even play one.

[Sindal]

The way I forsee the mechanic working is something like this

There is a circular bar on the screen that All sorc can see, it slowly fills up as the sorc casts spells, the higher it is the more dmg it will do to the Sorc when it consumes itself. Meaning the sorc will have the option, reach 50% and back off a bit with maybe some lighter spells or go for the 100 % and take the dmg. I would think even at 100% it can't do much more then 3/4 of the life of the sorc when it detonates.

That being said I think the sorc should be the highest burst dmg in the game, great for RVR focus firing on gorups low on healers though will probably not be as good as a Magus against GOOD organised groups. I think 3 sorc on one target should be gg, however 3 ranged dps on any one in this game will be gg so it goes either way.

Finally it is def a mechanic not for the light of heart that will lend itself to being partners with the healer right off the bat. I could see the upcoming melee healer and the sorc becoming fast friends for grinding. Will def need to know your healer to know how much you can push it. Grouped with a friend Blood Acolyte? burn it up to 80, 90%. Grouped with a pug noob, should probably play it safe.

I can see the Zealot and the Sorc becoming a nasty duo

[Duty]

They will probably take around 1/4 to 1/2 of their health loss for overcasting or something

That's still a ton of health to lose.

[Kharlene]

I love the idea behind the mechanic, and it's my guess as well that they're going to be the insane dps caster, more so than even the Bright Wizard, but naturally with a significant cost. Though I'm thinking it takes out a large percentage of your health, rather than a set amount of damage it delivers to you. We'll just have to wait and see for certain :mrgreen:

[Ayetalam]

Wow after sindal mentioned the Sorcerer/BP combo. Ouch. both DPSing, one crazy overpowered burst damage magic, with melee bleeds and dots. While being healed from death. Thats like a killer combo there. *cant wait*

Zealot, Sorc, BA, Shaman, Marauder, Witch Elf. /drool Mass DPS, everyone is being healed. Healers heal each other. pwnsauce :P

[Seldaren]

There is a circular bar on the screen that All sorc can see, it slowly fills up as the sorc casts spells, the higher it is the more dmg it will do to the Sorc when it consumes itself. Meaning the sorc will have the option, reach 50% and back off a bit with maybe some lighter spells or go for the 100 % and take the dmg. I would think even at 100% it can't do much more then 3/4 of the life of the sorc when it detonates.

This honestly sounds like a reasonable approach.

I highly doubt there will be any sort of random factor in the "blowing up". It will hopefully be completely controllable by the player. Randomness = bad.
As with Randomness it'll be possible to blow up even when you've only casted a few spells.

I imagine there will be some sort of bar, and when you reach the top of the bar "boom". But the spells the Sorc can cast will probably have the "raises Dhar" mechanic that other classes have. Likely not all the spells will do so.
The higher the "Dhar", the more effective the spells are too. Which just encourages you to cast more, until you beging cackling like a madman and explode is a black and blue-flamed inferno, killing everyone around you ;) .

It is also entirely possible that it will be possible to get Tactics that increase the size of the hypothetical bar, allowing the Sorc to cast more spells. I can see Mastery Tactics doing something like this.

Also, in addition to harming the Sorc (and others probably), the *boom* will probably also set the bar to zero. Meaning not only is the Sorc damaged a bunch, but they're now much weaker.

It will be interesting to see how people attempt to balance Dhar and non-Dhar spells.

There will obviously the "go down in Flames! Glory to Khaine!!" Sorcs who will blow themselves up on purpose when it looks like all is lost.

[Dyst]

I can tell everyone right now that they aren't going to unexpectedly explode just randomly from casting a spell.

Why? Cuz that would be stupid, and imagine how irritating.

So it most likely will have nothing to do with luck.

[Xurré]

The way I expect people to be playing a class like this is: run into battle, cast until they blow themselves up, respawn, run into battle, cast until they blow themselves up, respawn, run into battle, etc, etc ad nausea.

When there’s any benefit to blowing yourself up then I expect people will us it, particularly if they can just respawn for pretty much free anyway.


- Xurré

[Dyst]

The way I expect people to be playing a class like this is: run into battle, cast until they blow themselves up, respawn, run into battle, cast until they blow themselves up, respawn, run into battle, etc, etc ad nausea.

When there’s any benefit to blowing yourself up then I expect people will us it, particularly if they can just respawn for pretty much free anyway.



I really doubt that's how it's going to play out... It's more likely that you've got a bar that empties after casting certain spells, and when it is empty you start loosing health (on each cast). You now have to wait for the bar to refill, or maybe there will be certain abilities to refill it faster. Something in that area. That way it would be much faster (and more efficient) to just play careful and not over nuke (play strategically) rather than zerg spawning.

It will most likely be pretty controllable, randomness in the matter of hp loss especially isn't a good thing to implement on character careers.

[Alota]

I really doubt that's how it's going to play out... It's more likely that you've got a bar that empties after casting certain spells, and when it is empty you start loosing health (on each cast). You now have to wait for the bar to refill, or maybe there will be certain abilities to refill it faster. Something in that area. That way it would be much faster (and more efficient) to just play careful and not over nuke (play strategically) rather than zerg spawning.

It will most likely be pretty controllable, randomness in the matter of hp loss especially isn't a good thing to implement on character careers.

Your idea doesn't sound anything like Russian Roulette

[Kharlene]

Heh... Then you don't know Paul nor watched any of his podcasts... The roulette thing was more than likely something he came up with himself out of his over enthusiastic addled mind, and does not perfectly describe the actual game mechanic. :roll:

[Lucrece]

The way I expect people to be playing a class like this is: run into battle, cast until they blow themselves up, respawn, run into battle, cast until they blow themselves up, respawn, run into battle, etc, etc ad nausea.

When there’s any benefit to blowing yourself up then I expect people will us it, particularly if they can just respawn for pretty much free anyway.


- Xurré

That may be true for amateur play, but such a style of gameplay would not succeed at all in the bleeding edge, top-tier levels of competition.

[apartment42]

The way I've read it ... it looks essentially like any other caster except once you run out of magical power (action, mana, w/e), you can continue to cast spells at the risk of taking damage or even death. Except, of course, it wouldn't be shown like this ... the bar will probably increase, not decrease, as spells are cast .. and the cap on the bar would be well in to the risk zone.

The mechanic would further play out such that all spells have a higher proportionate 'action' cost in relation to your maximum, and your recharge time (cooldown) time would be sped up.

[Gilead]

The way I expect people to be playing a class like this is: run into battle, cast until they blow themselves up, respawn, run into battle, cast until they blow themselves up, respawn, run into battle, etc, etc ad nausea.

When there’s any benefit to blowing yourself up then I expect people will us it, particularly if they can just respawn for pretty much free anyway.

Maybe for people who don't play in groups this will be true. Even without the roulette head explosion people perform the same way.

But if you are in my group and you are constantly blowing yourself up for that you won't be in my group mucn longer, I'm sure many people would agree.

[Thizz]

Maybe for people who don't play in groups this will be true. Even without the roulette head explosion people perform the same way.

But if you are in my group and you are constantly blowing yourself up for that you won't be in my group mucn longer, I'm sure many people would agree.


which is why im always going to be the only sorc in my groups;)

[Arkane]

Maybe for people who don't play in groups this will be true. Even without the roulette head explosion people perform the same way.

But if you are in my group and you are constantly blowing yourself up for that you won't be in my group mucn longer, I'm sure many people would agree.
Completely agree. Accidents happen now and then but if they continue to happen and you continue to play like a jerk with no concern for how your actions continue to hamper the group, you will be removed. Then never asked to be grouped with by those players in the group, and word will get around from group to group that X Sorceress is garbage and the only thing she is good at is blowing herself up, which will eventually lead to you having a lonely end game or rolling a new Sorc under a new name to start fresh with a fresh reputation.

[EToaster]

I think it will work in a way that it's both helpful and harmful to keep casting spells as the bar goes higher. On one hand, you'll do more damage as it increases, possibly dramatically more at extremely high levels, but also the chance to damage yourself, as well as the damage taken when it detonates increases. So, after casting a few spells, you might have a 5% chance to explode and take about 5% of your life in damage, while dealing 100% normal damage, but as the bar nears full, it would be more like 90% chance and you'll take 80% damage, but deal 200 or 250% damage.

Also, I think the energy might drain out of you faster while the bar is near full by not casting, but the last bit going down to zero would be rather slow.

[YajoojMajooj]

Im so going to play a sorcerer ........ and i agree to the point that they will have a bar to tell u how close u are to hurting ur self ..... so in order not to do so u will take breaks in between casting .......... and NO this is def not a healer class where do u guys get these weird ideas ??? every thing paul's video told us was about DAMAGE ......
any way im so happy i couldn't decide what class to play from the destruction side and now all this wait and finally i got my class ........... as far as i can see this class is one of the most interesting range dps-er out there ....... it makes magic really feel like magic u gotta be careful not to go too far cuz these are the dark art s

[Xurré]

That may be true for amateur play, but such a style of gameplay would not succeed at all in the bleeding edge, top-tier levels of competition.
Not everyone plays at the "bleeding edge, top-tier levels of competition". In fact, I'd speculate that by far the majority of players won't be that die-hard about playing the game... the mechanic has to be fun for them too (and not suggest such a cheesy way to play).

Maybe for people who don't play in groups this will be true. Even without the roulette head explosion people perform the same way.

But if you are in my group and you are constantly blowing yourself up for that you won't be in my group mucn longer, I'm sure many people would agree.
That's kinda the problem though, don't you think?

After all, who wouldn't want me in their group... don't answer that. :p


- Xurré

[OnyxBMW]

Hrm...interesting discussion.

I'll just chime in. The way I see it possibly happening is, you cast spells, and the bar increases (similar to a rage bar, btw) and, as it increases, spell damage gets greater, costs less, cooldowns shorter, etc, typical buffs. However, as the bar increases, a static chance to blow up increases and, in addition, I bet the length of the bar will fuel the percent of damage you take.

In other words, it will still be 100% random, but you know exactly what kind of damage you'll be doing to yourself when it does happen. That would be russian roulette enough while still allowing a degree of control. If you're getting attacked, do you want to bring your bar above 50% damage received and risk ending yourself from a small amount of damage? Or do you want to continue on and (quickly) end the attacker's life with a side-effect of dealing enough damage to cripple or kill you?

It adds a small amount of control to make it seem like you're just not screwing yourself over, while still keeping it random.

[Nastu]

I dunno I'd rather it be random but with a diminishing effect so you cant just blow yourself up 5 times running. Randomness is actually better than non randomness... think about the way melee chars work, random crits FTW! Plus it would be more fun... sitting there thinking will i be WTF pwning this guy right now or am i going flying back 30 yds and having to spam HEAL ME!

[Kellaris]

The way I expect people to be playing a class like this is: run into battle, cast until they blow themselves up, respawn, run into battle, cast until they blow themselves up, respawn, run into battle, etc, etc ad nausea.

When there’s any benefit to blowing yourself up then I expect people will us it, particularly if they can just respawn for pretty much free anyway.
- Xurré

It is possible, but depend from the distance from spawnpoint. If You have to run 5 minutes after respawn, many people will prefer to wait a moment to cool down. Also, we have no idea what are exact effect of miscast. It can be 30 seconds stun for example.

[Hnul]

I'm guessing Sorceress DPS will be "F'cking off the chart", yes.

I would like to see lower ap-cost, bigger area, faster cast time, increased damage or something like that the "more bullets you put in your revolver".

The most emo class in-game is also the coolest xD
I'm hoping a Sorceress will be like a Self-Abusive Nuclear bomb.

[Lucifarian]

What they could do is doign when you cast a spell you do 100% then each next spell you spam you get 5%(or any other %) chance to blow yourself and it add 25%(or any other %) dmg to the spell. So this buff/debuff keep goign up till you stop spamming thoses spells. So when you spemmed it 19 times and haven't died, the next you will kill you but you'll do massive dmg. To remove the buff/debuff you just have to stop casting this spell for x amount of time.

So for a spell that does 200 dmg when you are lucky and goign to cast your 20th spell will do 1000 dmg.

[Kalawan]

Hrm...interesting discussion.

I'll just chime in. The way I see it possibly happening is, you cast spells, and the bar increases (similar to a rage bar, btw) and, as it increases, spell damage gets greater, costs less, cooldowns shorter, etc, typical buffs. However, as the bar increases, a static chance to blow up increases and, in addition, I bet the length of the bar will fuel the percent of damage you take.

In other words, it will still be 100% random, but you know exactly what kind of damage you'll be doing to yourself when it does happen. That would be russian roulette enough while still allowing a degree of control. If you're getting attacked, do you want to bring your bar above 50% damage received and risk ending yourself from a small amount of damage? Or do you want to continue on and (quickly) end the attacker's life with a side-effect of dealing enough damage to cripple or kill you?

It adds a small amount of control to make it seem like you're just not screwing yourself over, while still keeping it random.

Sounds good imo, much like Barnett's podcast.

Randomness = bad.

Not true at all, as long as it doesn't mean losing pretty much all hp or dying completely when you just joined the fight. Later on in the battle it's more acceptable as long you're knowing you're taking that risk, for example using a "big f'ing instabolt" spell that has an increased chance to make you blow up.

And remember crits and procs have been around a long time, which are random. For example a sword with a 10% chance to cast a fireball will have after 10.000 hits have cast about 1.000 fireballs with a minor difference. It'll all smoothen out in the long run eventually :)

[Nightz]

I really hope its like cast cast cast kill cast cast cast kill chances of blowing up are increased cast cast cast cast cast and so on until 50% cas....BOOOM! your remaining hp x2 is done in Aoe dmg to any nearby players maybe npcs too idk then u would be a walking time bomb :twisted: which would be extremely fun which i would love i would just go kamikazi for fun when i get bored like do a shadow magic buff over and over till boom! :mrgreen:

[NUBBEY]

i'll tell you right now, the 'blowing up' will not be fatal unless you're already very very low health. due to this mechanic, though, i'd say that sorc will do the most damage of any RDPS--they'll just need attention from a healer to sustain it.

[Zzulu]

Don't forget that you can easily avoid hurting yourself by simply chilling a little between nukes.

[Emeraldw99]

i'll tell you right now, the 'blowing up' will not be fatal unless you're already very very low health. due to this mechanic, though, i'd say that sorc will do the most damage of any RDPS--they'll just need attention from a healer to sustain it.

I doubt this is the case. It can potentially kill you I bet. Or deal significant damage that you will be forced to stop. The damage will be high but still lower than a Melee DPS and about equall with other RDPS because you will likely have to stop nuking at some point.

[TheGreatApe]

What I can see is a bar divided into two sections, green and red. You start from the green section and when you cast spells your bar starts to fill towards the red section.The green section is the "safe zone" and the red section is the zone when the randomness comes in. The red section is light red from the bottom and bright red from the top. So as you cast spells and you are in the red section you bar fills towards the top. The brighter the red the bigger the chance for self harm.

Simple isn't it?

[Naraxus]

I was under the impression that there was some sort of meter that would display how close you are to blowing yourself up and not every spell would cause a backfire.

[Origomar]

What i dont understand is people seem to think that sorc will do more damage than bright wizard but they use the same mechanic. if this is to be so atleast make BW's mechanic do alot less damage to self than the sorcs. I really hope the BW's mechanic doesnt affect it as much as the sorcs seems it will.

[Xyphos]

I haven't seen this mentioned yet... so I'll take a stab.

The way I see it working is more... sure you can do tons of damage, and be insane super DPS king, but at the cost of hurting yourself AND OTHERS! I'd guess it works if/when you blow yourself up, it AoE's to those around you. So sure, you can nuke until you explode, but no one will be happy when you do... One less DPS still up, and you just hurt a group of your friends.

It's more of a "We need the DPS now, so nuke your head off... but everyone back away from the sorc!" last ditch effort kind of thing... not a "ok, start the fight nuking your brains out."

[Mustard]

Yeah, whats with all the claims that sorceresses will do more DPS than BW?

No one official has ever mentioned that. Ever. I am guessing while they will DPS differently, It will still be the same.

[Dan gerous]

Yeah, whats with all the claims that sorceresses will do more DPS than BW?

No one official has ever mentioned that. Ever. I am guessing while they will DPS differently, It will still be the same.

Because this thread was started before it was known that the Bright Wizard has a similar mechanic to the Sorcerer.