Witch Elf Career Mastery

[Gemini]

I was thinking about this, and of all the classes, I think I've had the hardest time thinking up what sort of Career Mastery paths the Witch Elf will have. All I can come up with is one that focuses on the poisons and the drugs she takes. Wait, sorry, the poisons and the "exlixers" and "lotions" she uses. But even that sort of seems... lacking to me. I dunno, maybe one that focuses on positionals? I dunno, all my ideas seem kinda... dull.

So, any ideas? Xurre, I want you to think long and hard on this one, so we can have some great Witch Elfy ideas, and because you need to think about the glory of the Witches a bit right now.

[Farside]

I was thinking that WEs would have one path for self-buffs (drugs) that boost her performance, one for poisons and such that debuff/ DOT the enemy, and a final one that focuses on melee attacks.

[Foofmonger]

I sincerely doubt the WE would have a "buffing" line. More likely is that all the paths would incoporate different elixirs/drugs depending on the theme of the path.

My guesses?

A path based on powerful positional attacks and burst damage.
A path based on a stream of constant attacks and consistent damage.
A path based on mobility and hit and run tactics.

[Gemini]

I sincerely doubt the WE would have a "buffing" line. More likely is that all the paths would incoporate different elixirs/drugs depending on the theme of the path.

My guesses?

A path based on powerful positional attacks and burst damage.
A path based on a stream of constant attacks and consistent damage.
A path based on mobility and hit and run tactics.

Hmmm, yes, that would make sense, and having the related "elixers" and poisons be in that path, that makes sense. I'd say that's a pretty good bet, actually.

[Xurré]

I was thinking that WEs would have one path for self-buffs (drugs) that boost her performance, one for poisons and such that debuff/ DOT the enemy, and a final one that focuses on melee attacks.
That was kinda what I was thinking as the easiest solution. Not all that exciting though as it's just "a little bit more of this or a little bit more of that"; doesn't really seem to change the ways in which to play the class that much... but who knows.

Anyway, perhaps a more interesting approach to answering this question is to try and come up with names for these possible paths and then see from there how they could work.

So, here's a few names:

Path of Blood
Path of Slaughter
Path of Death
Path of Murder
Path of Frenzy
Path of Bloodlust (combining Frenzy and Blood)
Path of Sacrifice
(Yes, I know, I'm pretty much just listing keywords one associates with Witch Elves and Khaine :p )
Path of Torture
Path of Shredding

To take a few from that and combining them with some of Foofmonger's list (and some of my own) that could make:

Path of Slaughter - A path based on powerful positional attacks and burst damage.
Path of Death - A path based on a stream of constant attacks and consistent damage.
Path of Murder - A path based on mobility and hit and run tactics.
Path of Torture - A path based on higher defense and armor-piercing attacks.
Path of Bloodlust - A path based on increased use of elixirs and poisons.

Hmmm... something like that maybe. Somehow I like the idea of being able to concentrate more on armor-piercing attacks... I want to be able to wipe the smirk off the faces of offensive-specced Swordmasters and Warrior Priests. :evil:


- Xurré

[Droogie]

I sincerely doubt the WE would have a "buffing" line. More likely is that all the paths would incoporate different elixirs/drugs depending on the theme of the path.

My guesses?

A path based on powerful positional attacks and burst damage.
A path based on a stream of constant attacks and consistent damage.
A path based on mobility and hit and run tactics.


These "lines" are too much in vain of how WoW splits it up. Mythic will most likely stick with their type of spec lines from DAoC (at least I'm hoping they will..). And this way would be more like Farside describes it, with a line for her "buffing"-type abilities, a line for melee/weapons, and then also maybe a line for poisons.

Just my thoughts.

[Speedy]

Path of Shredding - A path based on a stream of constant attacks and consistent damage.

I believe that is more appropriate.

[Xurré]

I believe that is more appropriate.
Fair enough; I think you're right. :)


- Xurré

[Rasek]

Path of the striper
Path of masochism
Path of the

sorry, bored.

[Xurré]

Path of the striper
Eh? What does this (http://www.paaveragefisherman.com/action_striper.jpg) have to do with this (http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/images/conceptArt/CncArt0907_13.jpg)? :???:

Unless you were thinking candy striper, but I thought we left the talk of Witch Elf healers long since past us. :p


- Xurré

[Foofmonger]

These "lines" are too much in vain of how WoW splits it up. Mythic will most likely stick with their type of spec lines from DAoC (at least I'm hoping they will..). And this way would be more like Farside describes it, with a line for her "buffing"-type abilities, a line for melee/weapons, and then also maybe a line for poisons.

Just my thoughts.

I'm sorry but that really isn't how WoW splits it up at all, each tree in WoW serves a specific purpose or role, while the paths in WAR exist to enhance all of the current roles of the class.

If you think the mastery system is going to be like spec lines from DAoC, I think you will be dissapointed.

Think about it, if you have a path for poisons, and a path for elixirs, nobody would ever use those paths. Everyone would go for the damage path, because the classes role is not to drink elixirs and put poison on their weapons. Those are mechanics they use to get the job done, and not a classes specific roles.

Sorry, but I just don't see what you are suggesting happening based on all the information we currently know about the mastery system. Seems like a longshot at best to me.

Xurre: The "consistent" dps path would likely be the armor piercing one, considering that seems to be the way the Marauder functions (his steady mutation is all about dots, armor piercing attacks, etc..) It would also probably not have as many positionals as the stronger burst based path.

So I'd say your "Path of Torture" would most likely be combined with "Path of Death".

I don't see the Path of Bloodlust being a reality. As I stated above, I sincerely doubt that there will be one path for buffing/poisons, and it seems like each path with have elixirs/poisons specific to the role that path is trying to enhance. Also, it would be a pretty gimp path in my eyes (if it were real), because the ones that actually focus on enhancing the current roles of the WE (such as positional based attacks or constant streams of damage), would be much more effective at well, doing what they do.

[Xurré]

Fair enough, I'm just throwing out some ideas. :)


- Xurré

[Thrakkesh]

Eh? What does this (http://www.paaveragefisherman.com/action_striper.jpg) have to do with this (http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/images/conceptArt/CncArt0907_13.jpg)? :???:

Unless you were thinking candy striper, but I thought we left the talk of Witch Elf healers long since past us. :p


- Xurré

Oh god what I wouldn't give for some know-how with Photoshop.

[Tlear]

Perhaps something along the lines of

Hmm how about: Survival, Weaponmastery and Alchemy?

Survival will have general weapon and magic defense, mobility, frenzy generation
Weaponmastery improved positionals, disarm, silence, faster attacks, melee defense?
Alchemy: Improves drugs of all kinds, maybe introduces new drugs that can be distributed to the party? Improves ability to use drugs in battle (faster recharge lesser negatives). Magic defense.

[Speedy]

Perhaps something along the lines of

Hmm how about: Survival, Weaponmastery and Alchemy?

Survival will have general weapon and magic defense, mobility, frenzy generation
Weaponmastery improved positionals, disarm, silence, faster attacks, melee defense?
Alchemy: Improves drugs of all kinds, maybe introduces new drugs that can be distributed to the party? Improves ability to use drugs in battle (faster recharge lesser negatives). Magic defense.

I do like this idea, but survival is leaving a bad taste in my mouth =/

[Inkdot]

I also believe one "tree" will be about poisons and potions. Would be cool and fluffy to allow the WE to deal awesome dmg with just some tiny daggers, while beyond doubt deadly, a dagger is not much to a 2h hammer or choppa in itself. I hope that a substantial amount of the witches dps come from poison effects to further distinguish the class from other melee dps.

I also hope there will be a swiftness tree that allows you to specialize in getting in and out of combat easy. That back flip escape move sounds awesome, like a reversed charge from WoW. Perhaps some sick dodge moves or whatever. This would be like a utility/survival tree. Hope they add something that lets them lock on to a enemy.

Then I guess there will be a more straight forward tree dealing with brutish violence, arms, weapon skills and crazy frenzy madness.

Poison/Assassination - Swiftness - Violence :D

If they do something like this I'll be hard pressed to find a favorite, guess well just have to wait and see.

[OnyxBMW]

Hrm, to mirror the theme of various paths and guessing them, I was thinking there'd be:

The Path of the (insert cool name involving poisons/"elixirs") This path focuses on, well, the poisons and elixirs, making each of them more potent. They specialize in dealing damage to lightly armored opponents with poisons that enhance the feeling of pain/dissolve flesh/otherwise cripple the opponent (these would be mostly DoT's) or in breaking armor in the attempt to get at heavily armored opponents with acid-like concoctions. This would be the versatile path, but requires you to choose if you want to go for a faster kill or consistent damage against more targets.

The Path of the (insert really cool name regarding swordplay, so to speak). This path focuses on the Witch Elf's ability to get into the right position and deal burst damage efficiently and effectively. They use poisons and "elixirs" just like the other path, but these are more specialized for direct application to specific parts, such as a poison that shuts down the lungs, but has to be injected directly into them (IE a stab from the back). Just ideas. This class would be all about hitting hard and fast, but requires more thought and still leaves the Witch Elf vulnerable to attack (especially from rear-positionals)

And, last but not least, The Path of the (insert bloodlust/frenzy-like name here). This path focuses on hitting. Just hitting. The Witch Elf is CONSTANTLY in a frenzy of some form, using a combination of their "elixirs" that specialize on swooping in, hitting fast, and then swooping out if need be. They don't hit as hard as the above spec, nor are they as versatile as one whom masters in poisons, but that's not what they care about. All they care about is hitting, and hitting fast. They specialize on building frenzy, but forsake much burst damage and other versatility in favor of running in and attacking one after the other.

[Xurré]

And, last but not least, The Path of the (insert bloodlust/frenzy-like name here). This path focuses on hitting. Just hitting. The Witch Elf is CONSTANTLY in a frenzy of some form, using a combination of their "elixirs" that specialize on swooping in, hitting fast, and then swooping out if need be. They don't hit as hard as the above spec, nor are they as versatile as one whom masters in poisons, but that's not what they care about. All they care about is hitting, and hitting fast. They specialize on building frenzy, but forsake much burst damage and other versatility in favor of running in and attacking one after the other.
I think I'm in love.* :mrgreen:


- Xurré


* With the path, not the poster. :p

[OnyxBMW]

I think I'm in love.* :mrgreen:


- Xurré


* With the path, not the poster. :p

Damn, and you got my hopes up and everything...

[Foofmonger]

I think I'm in love.* :mrgreen:


- Xurré


* With the path, not the poster. :p

Thats pretty much the hit and run one described earlier with some mechanics involved. :P

I still say no poison/elixir mastery. Please no. :roll:

Why specialize your character in something that isn't a "role". It isn't a role to use poisons and elixirs, they are mechanics really. It would be like a Black Guard having a path on building hatred, or a Shaman path of building Waaagh. That just seems like such a cheesy cop-out to me for a mastery path. Define your character by increasing their power generation! Whoopity freakin do.

[OnyxBMW]

Thats pretty much the hit and run one described earlier with some mechanics involved. :P

I still say no poison/elixir mastery. Please no. :roll:

Why specialize your character in something that isn't a "role". It isn't a role to use poisons and elixirs, they are mechanics really. It would be like a Black Guard having a path on building hatred, or a Shaman path of building Waaagh. That just seems like such a cheesy cop-out to me for a mastery path. Define your character by increasing their power generation! Whoopity freakin do.

Sometimes the best ideas come from taking one person's description and refining it, then adding further elaboration.

And, poisons are a role. Why shouldn't some witch elves specialize in poisons and delivering them? Part of the facet of the witch elf is their poisons, whilst another part is their how they use their blades. Among many other things. There is no reason for there not to be a poison tree that specializes on delivering deadlier toxins to the enemy.

[Foofmonger]

Sometimes the best ideas come from taking one person's description and refining it, then adding further elaboration.

And, poisons are a role. Why shouldn't some witch elves specialize in poisons and delivering them? Part of the facet of the witch elf is their poisons, whilst another part is their how they use their blades. Among many other things. There is no reason for there not to be a poison tree that specializes on delivering deadlier toxins to the enemy.

Here our fundamental misunderstanding.

The definition of role:

I do not think that mechanics (how you achieve your role), are a role. I define a role as what your characters place in the battlefield is, i.e. what you actually do to achieve your goals. I'm not saying that witch elves shouldn't be able to specialize in poisons and elixirs. I just do not think there should be an entire path dedicated to it. I would much rahter that all three mastery paths have various elixirs and poisions in them. This way, no matter what kind of WE you were you would still have the option of using some of your core mechanics.

[OnyxBMW]

Here our fundamental misunderstanding.

The definition of role:

I do not think that mechanics (how you achieve your role), are a role. I define a role as what your characters place in the battlefield is, i.e. what you actually do to achieve your goals. I'm not saying that witch elves shouldn't be able to specialize in poisons and elixirs. I just do not think there should be an entire path dedicated to it. I would much rahter that all three mastery paths have various elixirs and poisions in them. This way, no matter what kind of WE you were you would still have the option of using some of your core mechanics.

And they still will be available. If you note my wording, though, I said that even the "frenzy" specialist witch elf will have specific "elixirs" all to their own.

The fundamental difference though in our thoughts are that you think someone who isn't a poison master wouldn't have poisons in their repertoire.

Nothing says that different trees can't use poisons. I even said that the more positional tree would perhaps poison people with poisons that needed to be applied directly (to the organ) for them to work properly. The only difference is, a poison master witch elf would have more powerful poisons than the other ones, or more versatile ones (a matter of opinion/interpretation at that point) and they'd have a much wider array than ones that aren't poison masters.

[Foofmonger]

And they still will be available. If you note my wording, though, I said that even the "frenzy" specialist witch elf will have specific "elixirs" all to their own.

The fundamental difference though in our thoughts are that you think someone who isn't a poison master wouldn't have poisons in their repertoire.

Nothing says that different trees can't use poisons. I even said that the more positional tree would perhaps poison people with poisons that needed to be applied directly (to the organ) for them to work properly. The only difference is, a poison master witch elf would have more powerful poisons than the other ones, or more versatile ones (a matter of opinion/interpretation at that point) and they'd have a much wider array than ones that aren't poison masters.

Why have one path dedicated to being a "poison" master if the other paths all have great poison effects in them as well?

It just seems like bad class design to me. Why not make that "poison" master spec just actually have something substantial behind it, as well as poisons like the other two paths?

[OnyxBMW]

Why have one path dedicated to being a "poison" master if the other paths all have great poison effects in them as well?

It just seems like bad class design to me. Why not make that "poison" master spec just actually have something substantial behind it, as well as poisons like the other two paths?

just because one spec has maybe 3 poison abilities to them, the poison master class is suddenly diminished to a worthless state?

The poison class can be the facet that, as I said, can focus on things like DoTs or anti-mitigation poisons. They focus on poisons for a chunk of their damage, far more than the other specs do. It's just a different flavor for the class, and it really does have substance, you're just choosing to ignore the potential.

[Inkdot]

To me poison is the tool for assassination. I know WEs are not assassisns so calling it that might be bad wording. Maybie build the tree around burst dmg, poison applicaton, and swift escape, letting the poison run its course.

[Speedy]

To me poison is the tool for assassination. I know WEs are not assassisns so calling it that might be bad wording. Maybie build the tree around burst dmg, poison applicaton, and swift escape, letting the poison run its course.

I agree fully with this point, but, well, I think the tree should combine poisons and elixirs, and have a separate tree for burst damage, and the last tree being survivability; quick escape, increasing dodge/agility and armor rating.

[Foofmonger]

I agree fully with this point, but, well, I think the tree should combine poisons and elixirs, and have a separate tree for burst damage, and the last tree being survivability; quick escape, increasing dodge/agility and armor rating.

I hope not.

I'm a strong supporter of paths that enhance a classes current roles (ie, DPS), and not give them pseudo new ones (like a witch elf tank who is mad survivable).

Giving the WE only one proper path (ie one focused on burst damage), and two gimp ones (survivability and poisons which are not roles), is a great way to make this class horrible.

[Ranti]

Thats pretty much the hit and run one described earlier with some mechanics involved. :P

I still say no poison/elixir mastery. Please no. :roll:


I agree

the poisons and elixers should be worked into every tree

[Speedy]

I hope not.

I'm a strong supporter of paths that enhance a classes current roles (ie, DPS), and not give them pseudo new ones (like a witch elf tank who is mad survivable).

Giving the WE only one proper path (ie one focused on burst damage), and two gimp ones (survivability and poisons which are not roles), is a great way to make this class horrible.

I see your point, so I take mine back. Oh, the idea of a witch elf tank is pretty hilarious though.

Ugh, this is slightly harder then I imagined it would be.

[Gemini]

I find the idea of having one path based just on positionals or something like that kinda boring, so let's mix it up a bit and take multiple aspects of the Witch Elf for each path. How about it going a little something like this?

Path of Frenzy: Front position attacks (we've seen some for other classes), extra frenzy building, and strong "elixers" that further this goal. Minimal defense in this path, no back and side positionals, just straight out slaughter with no regaurd for their safety.

Path of Murder: Side and back positional attacks, strong poisons, and agility-based defensive moves to make getting to their back and then getting away from their friends easier than with the other paths.

Path of Slaughter: Strong non-positional attacks, reactionary abilities from parry and dodge, and attacks that have snares and other debuffs to make killing easier for both you and your teammates; Attacks that reduce armor, attack speed, ect ect.

So, Xurre and others, seem Witchy enough while still furthering the goals of the mastery system?

[Foofmonger]

I find the idea of having one path based just on positionals or something like that kinda boring, so let's mix it up a bit and take multiple aspects of the Witch Elf for each path. How about it going a little something like this?

Path of Frenzy: Front position attacks (we've seen some for other classes), extra frenzy building, and strong "elixers" that further this goal. Minimal defense in this path, no back and side positionals, just straight out slaughter with no regaurd for their safety.

Path of Murder: Side and back positional attacks, strong poisons, and agility-based defensive moves to make getting to their back and then getting away from their friends easier than with the other paths.

Path of Slaughter: Strong non-positional attacks, reactionary abilities from parry and dodge, and attacks that have snares and other debuffs to make killing easier for both you and your teammates; Attacks that reduce armor, attack speed, ect ect.

So, Xurre and others, seem Witchy enough while still furthering the goals of the mastery system?

Now thats something I can live with, and something I might see Mythic implementing.

When we say "positional based" path, we are making very general guesses (obviously). I usually just mean that as a baseline for more descriptive paths like outlined above. Suffice it to say there probably will be a positional based one, a non-positonal reactionary one, and each of those will differentiate themselves in different ways (like you outlined above).

[Pira]

i can think of two paths.

One that focus on harder attacks but slower(not slow attacks,just slower... you know what i mean.)

And one wich focus on faster attacks, and sprint.

[Speedy]

I find the idea of having one path based just on positionals or something like that kinda boring, so let's mix it up a bit and take multiple aspects of the Witch Elf for each path. How about it going a little something like this?

Path of Frenzy: Front position attacks (we've seen some for other classes), extra frenzy building, and strong "elixers" that further this goal. Minimal defense in this path, no back and side positionals, just straight out slaughter with no regaurd for their safety.

Path of Murder: Side and back positional attacks, strong poisons, and agility-based defensive moves to make getting to their back and then getting away from their friends easier than with the other paths.

Path of Slaughter: Strong non-positional attacks, reactionary abilities from parry and dodge, and attacks that have snares and other debuffs to make killing easier for both you and your teammates; Attacks that reduce armor, attack speed, ect ect.

So, Xurre and others, seem Witchy enough while still furthering the goals of the mastery system?

Good job! But with the Path of Frenzy, the attack speed should be slightly faster then the other two styles, because the witch elves are more vulnerable.

Out of those three though, I have to say that I prefer the second and third paths over the first. Then again, that's just me.

[Xurré]

I find the idea of having one path based just on positionals or something like that kinda boring, so let's mix it up a bit and take multiple aspects of the Witch Elf for each path. How about it going a little something like this?

Path of Frenzy: Front position attacks (we've seen some for other classes), extra frenzy building, and strong "elixers" that further this goal. Minimal defense in this path, no back and side positionals, just straight out slaughter with no regaurd for their safety.

Path of Murder: Side and back positional attacks, strong poisons, and agility-based defensive moves to make getting to their back and then getting away from their friends easier than with the other paths.

Path of Slaughter: Strong non-positional attacks, reactionary abilities from parry and dodge, and attacks that have snares and other debuffs to make killing easier for both you and your teammates; Attacks that reduce armor, attack speed, ect ect.

So, Xurre and others, seem Witchy enough while still furthering the goals of the mastery system?
Hmm, I'm not sure I'm altogether happy with the snares and debufs in the last path as I think Witches should mostly have skills to serve themselves. But I guess that's a way to make them lean a bit more towards support so I can understand that.

And I think the path of murder should probably have armor-piercing (not armor reducing like you suggested for slaughter; I don't think they should have that at all) abilities. Would be nice if that path could be sort of a more anti-tank path.

And the first one I think is the one best suited against soft targets and large number of (weaker) enemies. So I agree that they should probably be able to attack much more and faster than in the other paths.

Overall I quite like it: a path for hard targets (tanks and other armored enemies), a path for soft targets (squishies and larger number of enemies) and one more of a supportive role meant to mesh better with the other classes. Just needs a bit of tweaking. :)

Oh, but "Path of Frenzy" probably isn't the best of names. I'd suggest renaming that to the Path of Slaughter and renaming that path to the Path of Pain or such. Then again, what's in a name, right. :p


- Xurré

[Nerak]

I disagree re: anything against Hard Targets.

Witch Elves are meant to find the stragglers and slaughter them from the videos we have been shown, so them running up to a tank isn't going to work out well, in fact it would not work well at all with the entire Tanks > Melee DPS mechanic that has been stated by Mythic.

Remember, Melee DPS > Ranged DPS, so you guys are going to be going after the soft targets of the Order such as Archmages, Shadow Hunters, Bright Wizards, Engineers, and Rune Priests.

Warrior Priests, Ironbreakers, KotBS's and Swordmasters are too much to handle for you guys in one v one combat.

Other than that, I'm all for a path for you guys to get some awesome poisons and elixirs.

[Gemini]

I disagree re: anything against Hard Targets.

Witch Elves are meant to find the stragglers and slaughter them from the videos we have been shown, so them running up to a tank isn't going to work out well, in fact it would not work well at all with the entire Tanks > Melee DPS mechanic that has been stated by Mythic.

Remember, Melee DPS > Ranged DPS, so you guys are going to be going after the soft targets of the Order such as Archmages, Shadow Hunters, Bright Wizards, Engineers, and Rune Priests.

Warrior Priests, Ironbreakers, KotBS's and Swordmasters are too much to handle for you guys in one v one combat.

Other than that, I'm all for a path for you guys to get some awesome poisons and elixirs.

*Ahem*, first of all, Warrior Priests are not tanks, and not as heavily armored as tanks.

Now, moving on, just because a Melee DPS isn't as good against tanks dosn't mean they can't have some abilities that make it easier for them to compete. Nor should it mean they totally focus on killing RDP classes. A mastery path with some abilities to use on heavier armor classes won't suddenly make them a tank killer, it won't change their role in any way, it will just give them more of a chance agaisnt tanks at the cost of being slightly less effective against non-tanks.

[Foofmonger]

*Ahem*, first of all, Warrior Priests are not tanks, and not as heavily armored as tanks.

Now, moving on, just because a Melee DPS isn't as good against tanks dosn't mean they can't have some abilities that make it easier for them to compete. Nor should it mean they totally focus on killing RDP classes. A mastery path with some abilities to use on heavier armor classes won't suddenly make them a tank killer, it won't change their role in any way, it will just give them more of a chance agaisnt tanks at the cost of being slightly less effective against non-tanks.

Agreed, and that is what specialization is all about.

A meele DPS who outfits himself to take out heavy armor targets should be able to. But at the expense of being more effective against squishier guys.

[Xurré]

I disagree re: anything against Hard Targets.

Witch Elves are meant to find the stragglers and slaughter them from the videos we have been shown, so them running up to a tank isn't going to work out well, in fact it would not work well at all with the entire Tanks > Melee DPS mechanic that has been stated by Mythic.

Remember, Melee DPS > Ranged DPS, so you guys are going to be going after the soft targets of the Order such as Archmages, Shadow Hunters, Bright Wizards, Engineers, and Rune Priests.

Warrior Priests, Ironbreakers, KotBS's and Swordmasters are too much to handle for you guys in one v one combat.

Other than that, I'm all for a path for you guys to get some awesome poisons and elixirs.
The thing is though, apparently tanks can be specced for damage (and thus giving them an easier time against melee dps), so I feel that it should be possible for melee dps classes to concentrate on abilities that make it easier for them against tanks (and armor-penetrating attacks fit that quite well).

Don't get me wrong, in a one-on-one straight-up fight the tank should probably win most of the time, but that's why I put the armor-piercing attacks in the path that focuses on side- and rear-positional attacks. It's meant for cases where the melee damage class gets the jump on the tank, surprising them. And that, I think, fits very well with the role of the melee damage classes.


- Xurré

[Nerak]

*Ahem*, first of all, Warrior Priests are not tanks, and not as heavily armored as tanks.

Now, moving on, just because a Melee DPS isn't as good against tanks dosn't mean they can't have some abilities that make it easier for them to compete. Nor should it mean they totally focus on killing RDP classes. A mastery path with some abilities to use on heavier armor classes won't suddenly make them a tank killer, it won't change their role in any way, it will just give them more of a chance agaisnt tanks at the cost of being slightly less effective against non-tanks.

I didn't say that Warrior Priests were tanks, I lumped them with hard targets, because they are a hard-target healer. Each healer kind of fits in with one of the other three archetypes to help balance them (which is why I think the DE Healer will be a more-hard-target type healer).

Again a question needs to be raised: Why?

You see, for this RvR-based game, Ranged units are the anti-tank units. The melee-dpsers are the ones who run around the tanks and pound the ranged/healers and the Tanks pound the melee dpsers who are trying to smack their ranged/healing units. Melee DPS units first priority should be killing that Archmage or that Runepriest not, ZOMG I need to kill the Ironbreaker.

This idea is actually explored in the videos in which the developers show the Witch Elf jumping back a billion feet away from a Swordmaster.

[Foofmonger]

I didn't say that Warrior Priests were tanks, I lumped them with hard targets, because they are a hard-target healer. Each healer kind of fits in with one of the other three archetypes to help balance them (which is why I think the DE Healer will be a more-hard-target type healer).

Again a question needs to be raised: Why?

You see, for this RvR-based game, Ranged units are the anti-tank units. The melee-dpsers are the ones who run around the tanks and pound the ranged/healers and the Tanks pound the melee dpsers who are trying to smack their ranged/healing units. Melee DPS units first priority should be killing that Archmage or that Runepriest not, ZOMG I need to kill the Ironbreaker.

This idea is actually explored in the videos in which the developers show the Witch Elf jumping back a billion feet away from a Swordmaster.

We already know that the Marauder gets a mutation for armor piercing attacks and dots to be used against higher armor targets.

Doesn't seem entirely unrealistic to expect other dps classes to have it as well.

[Lord Tareq]

We already know that the Marauder gets a mutation for armor piercing attacks and dots to be used against higher armor targets.

Doesn't seem entirely unrealistic to expect other dps classes to have it as well.

I assume witch elves will get their tank-dealing abilities in the form of poison, giving every melee dps career armor piercing seems a bit dull. Perhaps corrosive poison that lowers the armour-rating, maybe combined with the standard dot poison as their anti-tank gimmick as generally dots ignore armour.

[Foofmonger]

I assume witch elves will get their tank-dealing abilities in the form of poison, giving every melee dps career armor piercing seems a bit dull. Perhaps corrosive poison that lowers the armour-rating, maybe combined with the standard dot poison as their anti-tank gimmick as generally dots ignore armour.

I agree actually. I'm not saying that every class should have "the exact same features". I'm just saying that it stands to reason that if a meele dps wants to improve their fighting abilities against a tank class, they probably will have options.

[Freax]

1 for improving weapon and combat mastery.
1 for improving finishing moves and/or poisons, elixirs etc.
1 for improving tactics and evasion.

Somewhat like how the WoW Rogues talent tree is laid out. But not quite.

[UrienRakarth]

Edited for content.

[Gemini]

Then why bother posting? It does absolutely nothing for the conversation and the only purpose such posts serve are to try and raise the poster above the normal populus. If you don't want to or in this case, can't, contribute anything, then don't bother posting.

[UrienRakarth]

Then why bother posting? It does absolutely nothing for the conversation and the only purpose such posts serve are to try and raise the poster above the normal populus. If you don't want to or in this case, can't, contribute anything, then don't bother posting.

Then why bother posting? It does absulutely nothing for the conversation and the only purpose such post serve is trying raising you above the normal populus.If you don't want to or in this case, can't, contribute anything, then don't bother posting.

Uhm fits well also for you!

Btw mine was only a joke, if you don't have humor at all is not my fault.

[aegir]

i think the paths should specialize in killing one archetype enemy. in that way you'd have:

path of frenzy: faster attacks, casting interruption, ranged stun, some charge ability maybe ( to take out healers / ranged dps )
path of murder: armor piercing attacks, positionals, stunning abilities ( to take out tanks )
path of assassination: increased dodge/parry rating, disarming attacks, elixers to protect you from melee attacks, and various positionals. ( to take out melee dps )

[Iscra]

Career mastery will allow to specialize or enhance some aspect of one"s career.

Witch Elf is melee dps using daggers, elixirs and poisons, building up Frenzy, light armor but agile.

I see directly 2 obvious spec paths: melee (even better and faster melee damage, fast sustainable damage) and poisons/elixirs (stronger poisons, longer working elixirs).

Alas, it sounds not quite original, very WoW Rogue-like. :( Even 3rd path could be such a copy focusing on big special attacks (just without stealth).

I just hope Mythic will also be creative about WE career, seen many interesting ideas in this thread.

Some kind of debuff/disabling spec would surely be interesting. Maybe "Entrancing Beauty" daze? ;)


Spec for better defense - don"t think it would be popular, after all it is an offensive archetype class. Drink elixir, fast move in, hit and poison target, kill it. Fast escape.

[Krig]

i think the paths should specialize in killing one archetype enemy. in that way you'd have:

path of frenzy: faster attacks, casting interruption, ranged stun, some charge ability maybe ( to take out healers / ranged dps )
path of murder: armor piercing attacks, positionals, stunning abilities ( to take out tanks )
path of assassination: increased dodge/parry rating, disarming attacks, elixers to protect you from melee attacks, and various positionals. ( to take out melee dps )

Agree :D

A nice way to adapt to the surroundings. Makes fights more interesting because you don't have to fight the same way that everyone else does. I would make it like this:

Tanks: A charm :-D. Reduce there ability to aid there group. Stronger poisons so more of your attacks are magic (magic isn't reduced by armor i think).

Melee dps: Stronger elixirs so you can finish them of fast. Melee dps vs Melee dps will be a short fight i guess, boosting your burst damage will help.

Range dps: Faster movement so you can get close. Maybe a elixir that reduce damage taken for 10 seconds while you run in.

Healers: Poison that reduces healing. A interrupt ability.

[Mehuge]

I would like to see an damage avoidance mastery. Dodge, Parry and some magic ABS

[Foofmonger]

I would like to see an damage avoidance mastery. Dodge, Parry and some magic ABS

Witch Elves are tanks now?

[Inkdot]

Witch Elves are tanks now?

Hehe that would be awesome!!! Send the half naked 120 pounds girls to tank!!!

[aegir]

Agree :D

A nice way to adapt to the surroundings. Makes fights more interesting because you don't have to fight the same way that everyone else does. I would make it like this:

Tanks: A charm :-D. Reduce there ability to aid there group. Stronger poisons so more of your attacks are magic (magic isn't reduced by armor i think).

Melee dps: Stronger elixirs so you can finish them of fast. Melee dps vs Melee dps will be a short fight i guess, boosting your burst damage will help.

Range dps: Faster movement so you can get close. Maybe a elixir that reduce damage taken for 10 seconds while you run in.

Healers: Poison that reduces healing. A interrupt ability.

i have been thinking about it a bit after i made my post, and it would be neat with the guild RVR. The RVR-raid leader could just say: hmm we have enough dps on the tanks, quite enough melee-dps-killers. we just need one more person for the healerkiller-team... In that way the choices you make in your carreer really can help your guild out and diverse you from other people who play the same class.

[Fiss]

Witch Elves are tanks now?
how is dodge and parry a tanking ability? Have you never played CoX?

Magic Absorption is probably out of the question but I wouldnt say dodge/parry is.

[Krig]

i have been thinking about it a bit after i made my post, and it would be neat with the guild RVR. The RVR-raid leader could just say: hmm we have enough dps on the tanks, quite enough melee-dps-killers. we just need one more person for the healerkiller-team... In that way the choices you make in your carreer really can help your guild out and diverse you from other people who play the same class.

I agree, might be a problem for a leader to really understand every class but you could really make some changes according to balance and different strategies.

Another thing i like with it is that if there are alot of a one class on your realm you can adapt a little. Or if you always get killed by the same class over and over again you can adapt by making you less dangerous to other classes. If you consider yourself as a healer killer it would be nice to just focus on that. And if you want to be a balanced fighter that could fight most classes you could choose that.

[Foofmonger]

how is dodge and parry a tanking ability? Have you never played CoX?

Magic Absorption is probably out of the question but I wouldnt say dodge/parry is.

Being able to dodge/parry and being able to focus and spend points in a defensive mastery are entirely different.

Having baseline defensive abilities is fine. Having a whole "path" devoted to defense, in a dps class, is somewhat counter intuitive.