What if Sorceress is the healer?

[viscanti]

A lot of us have assumed that because the sorceress will do so much damage that they have to be the RDPS. The teaser explanation didn't mention either way, but it did seem reasonable that they would be the RDPS. What if they are the healer class, and the explosion mechanism is in place to make sure they throw out some heals too? Maybe they can nuke for a while, but then need to cool off and can heal to reduce their chance of blowing up. Many of the healing mechanisms are fairly unique, so I wouldn't be totally surprised if the sorceress was the healer after all.

[Alota]

If the sorceress is the support, I would shout irl (so not on the forums, I'm not that kind of person) 'TOLD YOU I WAS RIGHT' and then do a cheery happy dance and maybe even sing a cheery happy song with it.

Ok, on to the mechanics.
The first one is from Dastion: First you are able to nuke, building up an energybar that increases your damage but also increases the chance you'll get damage and maybe even increase the damage you get from when it explodes. So when you've filled up this bar, you can either continue nuking or let the energy 'syphon off'. With the syphon off you can cast heals, having stronger heals the more your energy bar was filled, while the energybar decreases over some time, or the energybar could just be an indication of how many healing spells you can pull off, with each spell making the energy decrease, thus when it's empty you need to nuke again.

The next one: It could be that the energy builds up, but having 2 bars, one for healing and one for destruction spells. Thus, when you heal you get the chance you blow up at some point, getting damage and that damage being increased the more you heal (but the healing spells becoming greater, although not that great that you can just keep on healing yourself to full before getting damage) or you could let that syphon off and cast destruction spells, which fills the destruction bar untill that reached a point you can get damage thus deciding if you want to continue nuking or go and heal.

Edit: Please people who support the melee healer, don't go rant here about 'Sorceress's are Rdps!' This thread should be soley for people to discuss how the blow up mechanic could work for a healer

[pzykozis]

i would also probably have to say told you so.

but if it was i'd be much more interested as to what was going to be the RDPS than i am about whats going to be the support now.

[Xurré]

First off, let me start with saying that I think that the description given in the podcast pretty much sounds like ranged damage to me (however much I wish it to be different). But it can’t hurt to speculate.


I was about to argue that it wouldn’t work very well as the mechanic seems to be doing the reverse from what you want to encourage in these classes: not being purely a healer. But then I thought, what if the increased risk you build by doing more damage also makes your heals better (just that the heals don’t increase, but decrease the risk)?

That way you get a powerful nuker class and a powerful healer class which is encouraged to keep a balance between nuking and healing (nuke too much and you go ‘kaboom’, heal too much and you become overall less powerful).

Now that would be an interesting mechanic.


- Xurré

[Estebar]

I was about to argue that it wouldn’t work very well as the mechanic seems to be doing the reverse from what you want to encourage in these classes: not being purely a healer. But then I thought, what if the increased risk you build by doing more damage also makes your heals better (just that the heals don’t increase, but decrease the risk)? It would make sense because firstly, your power bar is already near bursting with dark magic which would, of course, fuel your healing spells with the power they need, and secondly because you're effectively channeling dark magic into other people to heal them and thus using them to earth away some of the destructive energies targeted at yourself.

I could see some particularly nasty higher-tier skills in which you could transfer your "blowing up" risk onto other people around you, whether that be through cursed enemies (through a drain or a debuff with a delay, which eventually triggers off with your "blowing up" in a similar fashion to the Zealot's Harbingers) or even through your allies (trading a particularly powerful 'remains in play' healing spell for taking some of the damage from you when you next "blow up").

I could see them using Dark Sprites (such as the ones shown here (http://uk.games-workshop.com/download/popup.htm?/darkelves/artwork/images/big-1.jpg) and here (http://uk.games-workshop.com/download/popup.htm?/darkelves/artwork/images/big-13.jpg)) as a clear visual marker of how much dark magic you've built up seeing as these nasty creatures are attracted in swarms to malevolent energies. When you start to debuff enemies or heal allies, they could transfer over onto others to show that that portion of dark energy which was gathering around you has now moved over to your victim. Maybe the Sprite could then burst or melt away or something to show that a heal or curse has been used.

[Sinfjotle]

If Dark Elves are selfish and the more they cast spells the more chance they have of exploding and the only way for them to not explode is to heal... well, that makes perfect sense and kind of fits.

But we'll see.

[Valythiir]

But then I thought, what if the increased risk you build by doing more damage also makes your heals better (just that the heals don’t increase, but decrease the risk)?

That way you get a powerful nuker class and a powerful healer class which is encouraged to keep a balance between nuking and healing (nuke too much and you go ‘kaboom’, heal too much and you become overall less powerful).

Now that would be an interesting mechanic.
That pretty much sums up anything I could add. I wholeheartedly agree.

A mechanic whereby using damage/debuffs increases your damage, but also damages you, while balancing in healing/buffing as a means to reduce the damage meter, thus keeping you going, yet counterbalanced with diminishing returns would be great.

[Arkane]

I am a man of my word and as I wrote in another thread, if they are the Support Class and not the Ranged DPS class, I will leave these forums for good in terms of posting, and will only lurk.

[Aqe]

I kill myself. (I'm 100% sure it isn't )

[Estebar]

Arkane;560496']I am a man of my word and as I wrote in another thread, if they are the Support Class and not the Ranged DPS class, I will leave these forums for good in terms of posting, and will only lurk.

I kill myself. (I'm 100% sure it isn't ) Neither of you have said anything constructive at all. Take your doubts elsewhere.

EDIT: *looks down* Gotcha. Edited.

[Alota]

Neither of you have said anything constructive at all. Either contribute towards the discussion by showing some proof of why it can't be the Healer/Support class, or leave this thread alone.

Please don't, as like I said this thread should be for the people to discuss how the mechanic could be implented for a healer. These discussions about 'it will be this archtype' are set in other threads.

[Estebar]

Edited accordingly.

[Rasek]

dark magic with healing properties?

[Garthilk]

What is the Sorcerer is a pet career? Huh? They never said it wouldn't be a pet DPS career. It could happen, right?

Seriously though, if it is a healing career, I guess, not much will change. Though I wonder what career they're going to choose for ranged DPS. I think that is probably more the puzzling idea.

[Valythiir]

dark magic with healing properties?
Drain Life/Siphon Life/Soulstealer: at least two of these exist in tabletop Warhammer. The dark magic damages your target and restores health to you in exchange.

Vampiric Embrace: a la WoW shadow priests - all damage the sorc deals could restore a % of health.

Dark Empathy: EQ necromancer - the caster sacrifices some of their life to restore it to an ally.

Et cetera.

Dark magic is about subversion and fraying reality using the warp. It's not supposed to be just blowing stuff up.

[Alota]

What is the Sorcerer is a pet career? Huh? They never said it wouldn't be a pet DPS career. It could happen, right? :roll:

But that's totally out of the lore. Come on Garth, don't be a sarcastic admin and be glad we're discussing these things. I mean, that's what this forum is all about, isn't it?

[Arkane]

The title question was "What if the Sorcerer is the healer?", right? So how did I contribute nothing? I answered the theoretical question. I promised that if the Sorc was the Support Class that I would leave these forums, which is what I would do.

[AlienOverlord]

Sounded to me like the sorceress was going to all about death magic and trying to keep from exploding. If they were the DE healer class Paul's vid would have mentioned that esp. if it was part of the mechanic of playing.

But maybe he forgot or was edited.

[Alota]

Sounded to me like the sorceress was going to all about death magic and trying to keep from exploding. If they were the DE healer class Paul's vid would have mentioned that esp. if it was part of the mechanic of playing.

But maybe he forgot or was edited.

If you want to know this what we 'pro support sorceress's' think how it works, read the posts in the many sorceress discussions.

And Arkane, as we know how some people will react and such, I changed this thread to a 'Support Blowing Up' mechanic discussion, to let people discuss how this could work.

[Gloovish]

If the sorceress is the support, I would shout irl (so not on the forums, I'm not that kind of person) 'TOLD YOU I WAS RIGHT' and then do a cheery happy dance and maybe even sing a cheery happy song with it.
Videotape that and put it on Youtube.

On topic:
If healing was part of the mechanic of the whole dark magic thing I'm sure Paul would mention it. Instead he said, you have to stop to let it cool off, not heal, stop.

[Arkane]

If you want to know this what we 'pro support sorceress's' think how it works, read the posts in the many sorceress discussions.

And Arkane, as we know how some people will react and such, I changed this thread to a 'Support Blowing Up' mechanic discussion, to let people discuss how this could work.

I think you are basically spot on in how it will work. Dark Magic should raise a bar and as it rises, the power of your spells and heals increase, but the higher the bar, the higher the chance to explode. You can cast non dark magic though while you wait for the bar to go down to lessen the risk.

The higher the bar goes the closer to hurting yourself, but the more you heal/damage. Seems to be the only logical answer unless we get super creative.

They will have spells that are Dark Magic and non Dark Magic though.

[Arkane]

Well we knew one spell was called "Chillwind" from the podcast and it looks like we have two more from play magazine.

Surging Pain - Waves of shocking dark energy.

Stricken Limbs - Doesn't really need a definition.

Now, it is clear that I would assume Surging Pain is Dark Magic, but is Stricken Limbs considered Dark Magic or is it Physical Magic? Is Chillwind Dark Magic, or is it Wind Magic?

[Alota]

Chillwind is in the TT Dark Magic list, so yeah, it's Dark Magic. It's a toned down magic missile which freezes your opponent

[Arkane]

Chillwind is in the TT Dark Magic list, so yeah, it's Dark Magic. It's a toned down magic missile which freezes your opponent

That is hawt!

[Kellaris]

If healing was part of the mechanic of the whole dark magic thing I'm sure Paul would mention it. Instead he said, you have to stop to let it cool off, not heal, stop.


Indeed.
Also, it would be exact copy of shaman waagh mechanic building on nukes and decreasing on heals.
But healing spells may work exactly as nukes (increasing "bullets counter") And most of "healing" spells would be drains.

Paul never talks about exact mechanic, but about most flashy stuff.
And the only spell he mentioned - Chillwind - is damage and debuff spell in TT. Dark Magic is much more complex than fire magic.

Evil Mythic marketing has planned this presentation to give us no clue about last class.

[Valythiir]

If healing was part of the mechanic of the whole dark magic thing I'm sure Paul would mention it. Instead he said, you have to stop to let it cool off, not heal, stop.
And that's extremely dumb and what has us all hoping he left something out.

Your special game play mechanic is: you must stop playing periodically?

Whiskey Effin' Tango, man! That's just silly.

:And I blast and I blast and I blast, and I'm about to explode so I... brew a cup of tea... grab a bun... get some washing done... and I blast again!:

[Arkane]

It also depends on how fast the meter goes up and down. You may be able to cast 6-8 times before the meter gets to 50% full, and it may only take 8 seconds of no casting to drop it 25% seconds for it to drop back down to 25%. In essence, you would be having to try to kill yourself, in order for it to happen.

We need to know how each spells effects your bar in order to speculate how ineffective damage spells, or heal spells would be.

[viscanti]

It seems like most of the healer classes have an unusual (not generally seen in mmos) mechanic. Most of the RDPS don't. In the podcast Paul talks about what happens when the dark magic level gets too high, and that you need to rest OR cast a different type of magic. That different type of magic could very easily be of the healing variety. We know that they won't be limited to just dark magic, as he specifically mentions there are other types available.

Look at the design of the other healers and the other RDPS careers. The healers all have the ability to DPS or to heal, but they are most effective if they do both. The DPS careers are designed to be limited by threat in PvE, and point regen and cast time in PvP. Having a bar that increases the power of your spells, but can hurt you if you go above that forces the player to balance their offensive and other spells to be most effective. Which fits perfectly with the philosophy of the healing careers, but doesn't fit at all the the philosophy of the DPS careers.

If they are a pure RDPS, then the mechanism works exactly like threat does in PVE. You have to stay under a particular level or you risk dieing. None of the other RDPS are designed like that. It seems logical that it's possible the Sorceress is the support class.

[Ranti]

What is the Sorcerer is a pet career? Huh? They never said it wouldn't be a pet DPS career. It could happen, right?

Seriously though, if it is a healing career, I guess, not much will change. Though I wonder what career they're going to choose for ranged DPS. I think that is probably more the puzzling idea.

What if the sorerer is a RDPS career? Huh? they never said it wouldn't be a RDPS career. It could happen, right? They didn't say what archtype it would be, it can be both. This is the point of most the arguement, people are jumping their guns by claiming that video is anything conclusive.

I really see promise in the Damage builds up chaos, healing releases it out of you (so you don't die) kind of mechanic theory. This would seem to promote a balance gameplay, and make the best sorcerer able to walk the line per say, between killing themselves and killing the enemy. A mechanic that makes you stop casting after so many spells, which is essentially what it would be for a pure RDPS class, would be unneccesary, the energy bar already limits your cast per minute to a set maximum. But a mechanic that lets you build up damage to yourself, then siphon it off can allow very complicated strategy for sorcs, having to choose to go for the kill and risk blowing their head of, or healing themselves and fighting longer risking giving the enemy a upperhand.

[Foofmonger]

What if the sorceress isn't even in WAR, and the devs are playing a big trick on all you druchii fans. :mrgreen:

What if?....

[Xurré]

All I know is... I know what I'm asking Santa this Christmas (don't really need any more material junk anyway). :mrgreen:

I've been good this year, honest. I haven't slipped under my sacrificial quota not even once!


- Xurré

[Ranti]

All I know is... I know what I'm asking Santa this Christmas (don't really need any more material junk anyway). :mrgreen:

I've been good this year, honest. I haven't slipped under my sacrificial quota not even once!


- Xurré

Santa Khain is coming TONIGHT!!!!....is that what witch elfs sing on the most special night of the year?

Never mind, how disappointing

arguement is actually over now (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22274)

[Foofmonger]

Looks like James Nichols from Mythic just p0wned this thread.

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22274

[Ranti]

Looks like James Nichols from Mythic just p0wned this thread.

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22274

Is it honestly necessary to gloat?

Some of us are seriously disappointed by this, and now it is truly final

Guess blood 'lore butchery' priests incoming next month

I feel especially bad for the beastmaster/corsair/shade fans, Repeater Crossbow looks really unlikely now, how dull for dark elfs

[Foofmonger]

Is it honestly necessary to gloat?

Some of us are seriously disappointed by this, and now it is truly final

Guess blood 'lore butchery' priests incoming next month

I'm not gloating dude, I have no preference on the issue.

Sorry if being factual somehow offends you.

[Ranti]

I'm not gloating dude, I have no preference on the issue.

Sorry if being factual somehow offends you.


Maybe use more intellectual word choices rather than "Pawned" and you wouldn't look that way

[Lucrece]

Maybe use more intellectual word choices rather than "Pawned" and you wouldn't look that way

Maybe you should leave the sour grapes elsewhere. Let's not even mention the irony of the admonishment considering you just used the term "blood noobs" in another thread.

[Foofmonger]

Maybe use more intellectual word choices rather than "Pawned" and you wouldn't look that way

Maybe if you weren't so judgmental you wouldn't see it that way?

I can choose to speak any way I desire, whether it be intellectual or not. This thread got p0wned, there is no more reason for it to exist. Period.

(For the record, I was lobbying for sorc as support for a long time).

Its just a game dude, get over it.

[Ranti]

Maybe you should leave the sour grapes elsewhere. Let's not even mention the irony of the admonishment considering you just used the term "blood noobs" in another thread.

Could care less honestly, blood priest is a horrible concept, it would be like mythic making chaos khorne based with a full set of healers and casters. Khorne and Khaine just don't work that way.

I can still argue that mythic has made a mistake with their placement of the Sorc

[Arkane]

Could care less honestly, blood priest is a horrible concept, it would be like mythic making chaos khorne based with a full set of healers and casters. Khorne and Khaine just don't work that way.

I can still argue that mythic has made a mistake with their placement of the Sorc

You could, but it would be a wasted effort on your part. They have it set in stone this is the archetype that they belong in. I doubt they are going to change it months away from the release just because Forum Ranter A is pissed about a decision.

[Lucrece]

Could care less honestly, blood priest is a horrible concept, it would be like mythic making chaos khorne based with a full set of healers and casters. Khorne and Khaine just don't work that way.

I can still argue that mythic has made a mistake with their placement of the Sorc

And people could care less about how you would wish them to speak, honestly. The irony still stands. You should not scold people for a behavior you yourself engage in.

Yes, your disappointment is understandable, but there's no need to overreact and lash out at people. The best thing for those of you who fear the Blood Priest (myself included) is to lobby for the next more reasonable and least lore-bending melee healer that could be introduced.

[CapnSquig-WHA]

Ok, James has confirmed Ranged DPS for the Sorc, so the Sorc is in fact not the Healer. So the subject of the thread is no irrelevant.

Thread closed....