Shield of the Sun vs Baneshield

[Menethos]

Lets make a quick comparision between the Knights Defensive shield and the Chosens one.

Im going to post one thread both in the Class balance section and in the Suggestions and Feedback section.

The post on the Suggestions and feedback forums is here: **Removed**

Shield of the sun (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8025)
The heat of the very sun itself surrounds you for 10 seconds, dealing 150 Spirit damage back to anyone that attacks you.

Theres two tactics that improves the effect of this spell, besides speccing enough points to makes this spell level 40.

Sunfury (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8059) and Sun's Blessing (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8045)Sunfury requires 3 points in the Glory tree to Aquire this ability.

Bane Shield (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8337)A baneful aura surrounds you for 10 seconds, lashing out for 150 Spirit damage at any enemies who hit you.

Similar to Sots this ability also have two tactics to improve this ability:

Baneful Shielding (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8357) and Dire Shielding (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8364)Same things apply do Dire shielding, it requires 3 points aswell.

Here is where the problem starts. Both classes are Support-tanks and both have their various functions in both offense and defense. Knights are more orientated to be "anti-melee" whilst Chosens are more "Anti-Casters" (Knights got OYG whilst Chosens got DF).

Theese two skills are supposed to be the mirrors of eachother, but you can clearly see that Bane Shield is the winner. It can both be used for your own protection aswell as your allies protection, depending on that 1 tactic, 2 tactics if youre going really defensive. Besides tearing apart every AoE damagedealer trying to dish AoE dmg into a group of Destro, it stacks with other Chosens meaning you could have several chosens using this ability and that tactic. This works excellent in Keep/fortress defenses and ORvR. Lets not forget this ability is also considered a "Buff".

Now going back to SotS it only affects the Knight himself. We dont got any tactic that protects our allies. We got 2 moderate tactics that serves the purpose of looking good in our tactic sheet in our abilities section. Whether to use the Suns Blessing tactic point could be arguable. Lets not forget the Knights ability is a BLESSING. It can easily be removed from us in purpose of not dealing back damage when were being struck by several enemies aswell as not using OYG at the same time to prevent even more dmg dished out.

What I would like to see is some kind of balance effecting the Knight or the Chosen or simply both:

1. Revamp Sunfury making it affecting all our allies the same way Baneful shielding does.

2. Nerf Baneful Shielding to the same state as Sunfury, making it deal more dmg instead and affecting an ability instead of having it affect allies.

3. Simply dont make it stack with other chosens using the same ability with the tactic. Making it so that the strongest Bane shield with tactic be applied to allies

4. Or just make a drastic Mythic nerf and make it proc every two seconds. j/k

/discuss

[Tak'zenen]

Sure, if they bring all our other lack luster abilities in line with your amazing ones.

[Euler]

Sure, if they bring all our other lack luster abilities in line with your amazing ones.

See EM/Rift.

1 broken/OP ability does not make up for a lackluster class and still gets the nerf before the class gets its other skill's buffed.

[Mahaf]

The simplest solution would be to mirror the two abilities completely, and arguably the best. Or, simply put a cap on the number of players within 30 feet Bane Shield could affect. As it seems to stand, Bane Shield, with Dire Shielding, can affect as many players as can get within 30 feet. So, stack 20 players in one area with a Chosen running Bane Shield with Dire Shielding, and watch an AoE caster get hit 20 times from one attack (if there's already a cap, let us know, because I've not seen any evidence there is). Hitting for 100 damage each, that's 2000 points of damage reflected. I think any developer in their right minds would wince at the idea of REFLECTING 2000 points of damage. With the pulsed AoE attacks that some RDPS have, that could get out of hand.

Again, if there's a cap to the number of people affected, then I believe the tactic is fine. That's basically all limiting an aura to group is, a cap on the number of people affected.

[Arrelaine]

Also remember that BS can be resisted/mitigated, it's spirit damage.

[Zephris-WHA]

Please remember that cross posting is strictly not allowed on these forums. Mythic or their people will most likely read your post here so no need to post it elsewhere.

[Sgt.Freakshow]

Sure, if they bring all our other lack luster abilities in line with your amazing ones.

As he said... no reason to call out nerfs on Bane Shield aslong as the KotBS is obviously superior to the chosen...

[Ashonic]

3. Simply dont make it stack with other chosens using the same ability with the tactic. Making it so that the strongest Bane shield with tactic be applied to allies.



This is already how it works.

if you need proof im happy to provide it.

the strongest baneshield (with dire shilding) is the only one which does damage.
it does stack 2 times on chosen, so that a chosen can have another baneshild + his own, however, one of the baneshields does less damage in this scenario.

[DanteCA]

Bane shield also scales with gear and can be mitigated well shield of the sun is unmitigated damage that does not scale. On people with resist gear Bane shield will hit like a wet noodle especially on tanks with their high toughness. Hitting for under 100 on geared people is good I've seen it hit for less than 50 on tanks.

On a KoBS with a resist aura up it will if you are lucky hit for half of what SoTS hits for.

Bane shield is only really dangerous to people who have not stacked spiritual resist, have not been buffed and have poor toughness.

So if you really want to balance it out you need to change SoTS to elemental damage as that is what destruction has stacked their resistance against have it scale with str and be mitigated via resistance blocked and I think it's parried. Oh and move it to your tank tree.

[PinkysBrain]

As he said... no reason to call out nerfs on Bane Shield aslong as the KotBS is obviously superior to the chosen...
You could have only Quake, Bane Shield, Discordant Fluctuation, Corrupting Horror Tzeentch Reflection and HtL on your hotbar and you would still be the most powerful tank in keeps/fortresses. Single target abilities are insignificant in a zerg.

PS. nice quote from the VN boards "so ya we make a setup that is IDEAL TO BOMB ZERGS when we know order and destro is out circling...... 2 DOKS 4 sorcs couple chosens LOTS of healers." ... Chosen are not weak, they are the WLs of Destruction. In neither case do the players really love the class, in both cases they are situational win buttons because of overpowered abilities.

[Ashonic]

You could have only Quake, Bane Shield, Discordant Fluctuation, Corrupting Horror Tzeentch Reflection and HtL on your hotbar and you would still be the most powerful tank in keeps/fortresses. Single target abilities are insignificant in a zerg.

PS. nice quote from the VN boards "so ya we make a setup that is IDEAL TO BOMB ZERGS when we know order and destro is out circling...... 2 DOKS 4 sorcs couple chosens LOTS of healers." ... Chosen are not weak, they are the WLs of Destruction. In neither case do the players really love the class, in both cases they are situational win buttons because of overpowered abilities.


i do beg to differ. on a side note: to get tzeentchs reflection, we need to spec heavly in the discord tree, which, if the remaining points go into the corruption tree, puts baneshield at about 80-90 damage before resists. try it at wardb.

no we are not weak, should we be?

no we are not the WL of destuction. Ill get a video of the next fortress siege, and i'll show you that no-one gets WTFPWTBBQ by baneshield. ill then stick it next to a WL video and show you wtfpwtbbq.....

we are not i win buttons. i really wish i was ;) but im not. you seem to ignore all fact and reason, so im not going to even bother. BS is not OP, it does not stack and it is not an IWIN button.

[PinkysBrain]

How about you run a log of your DPS instead?

[blurps]

Of course Chosens are stupidly overpowered in keep sieges. Completely locking down the opposition's AoE capabilties as well as annoying the heck out of the whole Order faction by the disorient aura is not balanced and whoever claims otherwise is just making up excuses.

The challenge for Mythic is to not nerf the class in the other aspects of the game, as they're fine in small scale RvR and even somewhat underpowered in PvE as of now. Unfortunately they don't have a good track record in that regard.

[Ashonic]

Of course Chosens are stupidly overpowered in keep sieges. Completely locking down the opposition's AoE capabilties as well as annoying the heck out of the whole Order faction by the disorient aura is not balanced and whoever claims otherwise is just making up excuses.

The challenge for Mythic is to not nerf the class in the other aspects of the game, as they're fine in small scale RvR and even somewhat underpowered in PvE as of now. Unfortunately they don't have a good track record in that regard.

sounds like your making exuses for getting beat ;)

[Menethos]

How come theres tons of screenshot circling around on the forums showing it that it stacks?

Oh and bout Sots being unmititgated damage that does not scale? Since when does a blessing that only protects the knight make it any good when WE and BOs etc. can easily remove it? If you want to hinder a knight from dealing damage to ya from Sots, just shatter the blessing. But if you want to stop people from hitting ya with BS in keep sieges, you cant just run up and get the tank that has it, youll die from the AoE on the stairs.

So yes an ability that effects every class and that does a lot of dmg to AOE vs an ability that only effects one person, is removable, and hardly do any dmg and could be easily hotted up or just healed with one spell is still discussable.

[plok]

don't trust the icon.

even enemys within my range get the baneshield icon when using it.

[Tak'zenen]

How come theres tons of screenshot circling around on the forums showing it that it stacks?

Oh and bout Sots being unmititgated damage that does not scale? Since when does a blessing that only protects the knight make it any good when WE and BOs etc. can easily remove it? If you want to hinder a knight from dealing damage to ya from Sots, just shatter the blessing. But if you want to stop people from hitting ya with BS in keep sieges, you cant just run up and get the tank that has it, youll die from the AoE on the stairs.

So yes an ability that effects every class and that does a lot of dmg to AOE vs an ability that only effects one person, is removable, and hardly do any dmg and could be easily hotted up or just healed with one spell is still discussable.


That's the same argument anyone can use for any class during a keep siege. Chosen can't magically wade through Order WBs to sever one blessing than instantly warp back into the lord room laughing the whole way.

[Menethos]

That's the same argument anyone can use for any class during a keep siege. Chosen can't magically wade through Order WBs to sever one blessing than instantly warp back into the lord room laughing the whole way.

What?! Why would you want to go up and sever the knights blessing when its only affecting the one that is hitting him with physical dmg? The fact still remains that BS does dmg to anyone and effects all allies, which means any aoe at that time will most likely kill you. Just take a look at engineers, they have tons of AOE dots and stuff they can put up.

[Tak'zenen]

What?! Why would you want to go up and sever the knights blessing when its only affecting the one that is hitting him with physical dmg? The fact still remains that BS does dmg to anyone and effects all allies, which means any aoe at that time will most likely kill you. Just take a look at engineers, they have tons of AOE dots and stuff they can put up.


It crits for 300 with 650 str. There's an AoE cap of 10, I don't think 3k damage will kill any lvl 40 character. On top of that, if you're hitting yourself for 3000 damage a pop and keep going, you deserve to die.

And it only hits on the initial dot tick, not each individual tick, so don't bring that argument up.

[Merfy]

What I would like to see is some kind of balance effecting the Knight or the Chosen or simply both:

1. Revamp Sunfury making it affecting all our allies the same way Baneful shielding does.

2. Nerf Baneful Shielding to the same state as Sunfury, making it deal more dmg instead and affecting an ability instead of having it affect allies.

3. Simply dont make it stack with other chosens using the same ability with the tactic. Making it so that the strongest Bane shield with tactic be applied to allies

4. Or just make a drastic Mythic nerf and make it proc every two seconds. j/k

/discuss

I cant believe a Kotbs would dare to say this seeing as you guys get http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8054
http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8060

Both of those tatics further improve your core class mechanic, while chosen do not have anything remotely similar.

Also as it has been proven many many many times BS+DS does not stack. Whats happening is the aoer is hitting different chosen at the same time that are running baneshield

I'll break it down again.

Take 3 chosen Jim, Joe, Fred. All of the have baneshield. Jim is full dread, Joe is full corruption, and Fred is full discord. Only Joe has dire shielding

Jim and Fred are standing next to each other and a BW/Engi aoes them. They both turn on baneshield and the attacker gets hit back by both Jim and Freds baneshield. Does this mean bane shield is standing?No, the aoer is hitting both chosen while they had it active.

Heres another. Joe is standing within 30ft of three other people. They start to get aoed. Joe turns on his baneshield and it affects the three other people. The aoer gets hit four times by Joes' baneshield. The aoer decides to aoe again, Joe's baneshield still has 12sec remaining. Now Jim and Fred are standing next to Joe and the other three people. When the aoe starts they turn on their baneshield. The aoer gets hit four times by Joe's baneshield and once by Jim and Fred's. Again, this is not a case of baneshield stacking because the aoer is hitting multiple chosen with their own baneshield.

Order can post all the screenshots they want of baneshield damage during a keep raid, but that is about as useful as an ahole on your elbow.

If you guys want to prove baneshield is stacking, get two chosen to go on the pts. Both need to be at least level 35. Have one spec full corruption with dire shielding and have the other spec something else. Stand them right next to each other, have both turn on baneshield, then aoe them and see which baneshield you get hit for.

The one thats specced full corruption will be the only baneshield hitting the aoer. Why? Because his buff is greater than the others.

Now, if you get hit twice by corruption chosen's baneshield and once by other chosens,then the buff is stacking.

Until someone does that and brings screenshots , please stfu about baneshield stacking.

[Champion]

I really hate the screen shots showing more than one application of bane shield on a target then arguing it stacks. Sometimes when i cast bane shield it shows up on my enemies buff/debuff bar. Does this mean i am casting bane shield on my enemies? Most likely not.

[WNxKenwayy]

Baneshield doesn't stack.

It is a blessing you tard bucket. It can be removed. Good job.

[Zarovich]

This is getting out of hand, why must KoTBS think they have to be superior in all areas against a Chosen. Well since you guys want Dire Shielding so bad, can we get Runefang, Biting Blade, or Encouraged Aim? All this whining would go away if Order would realize how to stack Spirit resistances.

[Balcor]

This is getting out of hand, why must KoTBS think they have to be superior in all areas against a Chosen. Well since you guys want Dire Shielding so bad, can we get Runefang, Biting Blade, or Encouraged Aim? All this whining would go away if Order would realize how to stack Spirit resistances.

You're missing the point here... there is NO ORDER ability that mirrors this so there is no way for Order to slowdown or shutdown the Destruction AoE abilities. People simply want BALANCE. If Destro can reflect x amount of damage back on the Order AoE abilities/spells...then Order should also be able to reflect x amount damage back on Destruction's AoE classes in the same manner. Even if it's mitigated it's still damage coming back for free (on top of all other incoming dmg).

OYG is nowhere near as effective as DF now that it has a 2 sec timer on it. Besides which, OYG is melee attacks only (thus leaving Sorcs free reign to AoE all they want).

BS + DS is far more effective than Shield of the Sun ( a self only buff) simply because it affects so many people at a time.

They either need to remove DS or give the Knight the same skill to make Shield of the Sun affect all allies within 30 feet ... it'd be real interesting to see how you Destruction people feel when the shoe is on the other foot for a change. Just remember, without balance, you'll soon be playing a PvE game where it's Destruction vs NPCs.

[Ashonic]

<snip>

They either need to remove DS or give the Knight the same skill to make Shield of the Sun affect all allies within 30 feet ... it'd be real interesting to see how you Destruction people feel when the shoe is on the other foot for a change. Just remember, without balance, you'll soon be playing a PvE game where it's Destruction vs NPCs.

sure thing! Trade the knights skills for the chosens and you got yourself a done deal. :)

it'd be real interesting to see how you Destruction people feel when the shoe is on the other foot for a change.
it sure would, seeing your range classes beat the living eff out of our range classes huh?

[Zarovich]

You're missing the point here... there is NO ORDER ability that mirrors this so there is no way for Order to slowdown or shutdown the Destruction AoE abilities. People simply want BALANCE. If Destro can reflect x amount of damage back on the Order AoE abilities/spells...then Order should also be able to reflect x amount damage back on Destruction's AoE classes in the same manner. Even if it's mitigated it's still damage coming back for free (on top of all other incoming dmg).

Spending two tactic slots to make this trick work does not equal free.


BS + DS is far more effective than Shield of the Sun ( a self only buff) simply because it affects so many people at a time.

In a keep or fortress situation..yes it is better but majority of the time, Shield of the Rising Sun is better with the damage enhancement tactic.


They either need to remove DS or give the Knight the same skill to make Shield of the Sun affect all allies within 30 feet ... it'd be real interesting to see how you Destruction people feel when the shoe is on the other foot for a change. Just remember, without balance, you'll soon be playing a PvE game where it's Destruction vs NPCs.

Sure as soon as the Chosen gets all the group friendly abilities that the KoTBS gets. As someone else pointed out, We (Chosen) will gladly give you all our abilities in return for all of yours (KoTBS). I have yet to hear a KoTBS willing to take us up on the offer...hmm why is that?

[Ellessidil]

Sure as soon as the Chosen gets all the group friendly abilities that the KoTBS gets. As someone else pointed out, We (Chosen) will gladly give you all our abilities in return for all of yours (KoTBS). I have yet to hear a KoTBS willing to take us up on the offer...hmm why is that?

Oh come on now, get real.

As if someone saying "sure Ill trade" is going to make a damn bit of difference, and you know it. Mythic isnt going to swap two classes between each other, regardless of if people on both side say "sure sounds like fun".

Its a stupid arguement to even try to argue, let alone base your entire theory on.

[Ashonic]

Oh come on now, get real.

As if someone saying "sure Ill trade" is going to make a damn bit of difference, and you know it. Mythic isnt going to swap two classes between each other, regardless of if people on both side say "sure sounds like fun".

Its a stupid arguement to even try to argue, let alone base your entire theory on.

This @ anyone who says KotBS should get BS+DS.

that is all :D

[Tak'zenen]

Oh come on now, get real.

As if someone saying "sure Ill trade" is going to make a damn bit of difference, and you know it. Mythic isnt going to swap two classes between each other, regardless of if people on both side say "sure sounds like fun".

Its a stupid arguement to even try to argue, let alone base your entire theory on.


It's ridiculous that people are calling a damage reflect OP.

Both sides have abilities the other doesn't. This is the ONE thing that makes Chosen useful in keep sieges. We're buffbots.

[Ashonic]

don't trust the icon.

even enemys within my range get the baneshield icon when using it.


tested.

proved.

Linked. (http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo139/edracyte/bs-onOrder.jpg)

[Ozumn]

Remove the 2sec thingy on OYG.

[Rijasy]

Remove the 2sec thingy on OYG.

Its Shield of the Sun Vs. Bane Shield.

Not On Your guard! Vs. Baneshield.

[Didier]

Sure as soon as the Chosen gets all the group friendly abilities that the KoTBS gets. As someone else pointed out, We (Chosen) will gladly give you all our abilities in return for all of yours (KoTBS). I have yet to hear a KoTBS willing to take us up on the offer...hmm why is that?


Deal! I buy it for my KotbS. As i am a team oriented player who coordinates heavily with the others, i'd like to shut you down the same way.

Must be really coool:
4 KotbS standing behind the tankwall so that no one can reach us and counting down.
On 3 we all activate our "new uber special" and just plain laugh our butts off after the AoEs have stopped knowing that they won't be able to breach the BO-BG-tankwall anymore. And it will take them longer than 13 secs to reform and lick their wounds, so BS is up again.
Yeah! Here we go again. Isn't that nice?

Or on the other hand:
Give Order a way to dispell buffs in a 60 ft cone or 60 ft AoE. How does that sound?

Oh and by the way...
Have you read about Karak Azgal in the RvR-Forum? Have fun on Karak playing PvE.
It starts on the first big servers.


Thx again to you all.

Edit:
Yes BS can be mitigated. Oh my god, that must be the counter-argument. Yes, that has to be. I don't care if the argument begins with calculations for tanks!
Do the calculation for backline DDs whos job is to do damage.
Thx for thinking out loud and barely counting to 3.

[Snort]

Deal! I buy it for my KotbS. As i am a team oriented player who coordinates heavily with the others, i'd like to shut you down the same way.

Must be really coool:
4 KotbS standing behind the tankwall so that no one can reach us and counting down.
On 3 we all activate our "new uber special" and just plain laugh our butts off after the AoEs have stopped knowing that they won't be able to breach the BO-BG-tankwall anymore. And it will take them longer than 13 secs to reform and lick their wounds, so BS is up again.
Yeah! Here we go again. Isn't that nice?

.

You are aware if KOTBS got buffed as you suggested and chosens got buffed as Zarvish suggested so you have similar skills that it is the destruction side that would benfit the most? I fact we would benifit very significantly.

Both sides with bane shield equilalents means that Chosen get to stand behind Blackorcs who now have an extra 15% healing. Or indeed in front of a phalanx of Sorcs with 10% extra Crit.

Judicious use of tactics would make it a lot easier for destruction to defend a keep.

I for one would enjoy defending a keep with such a significant increase in my healing and damage for our dps.

[Didier]

You are aware if KOTBS got buffed as you suggested and chosens got buffed as Zarvish suggested so you have similar skills that it is the destruction side that would benfit the most? I fact we would benifit very significantly.

Both sides with bane shield equilalents means that Chosen get to stand behind Blackorcs who now have an extra 15% healing. Or indeed in front of a phalanx of Sorcs with 10% extra Crit.

Judicious use of tactics would make it a lot easier for destruction to defend a keep.

I for one would enjoy defending a keep with such a significant increase in my healing and damage for our dps.

Yes indeed, overall the KotbS is the better Groupsupporter. As of now the Chosen on the other side is the better Groupdebuffer / denier.

It's all a choice of personal preferences. I for myself would use the build i mentioned above. My personal playstile favors debuffing / controlling the enemy and thats where the chosen shines brightly over the top of all others.

[Tak'zenen]

Yes indeed, overall the KotbS is the better Groupsupporter. As of now the Chosen on the other side is the better Groupdebuffer / denier.

It's all a choice of personal preferences. I for myself would use the build i mentioned above. My personal playstile favors debuffing / controlling the enemy and thats where the chosen shines brightly over the top of all others.

That's our job. It's what we do. We trade excellent mitigation and damage for it.

Your fault for rolling the wrong class. Mythic shouldn't nerf Chosen simply because the class you rolled isn't meeting your playstyle.

[Ulstan]

I'm not sure why anyone would complain about shield of the sun vs bane shield when the real imbalance is between the chosens godlike aoe disorient and the incredibly, totally useless 25% more setback version the KOTBS gets instead.

[kingsword]

Sure, if they bring all our other lack luster abilities in line with your amazing ones.

Like our heal debuff aura and disorient aura?

Oh wait..

[Reya]

It crits for 300 with 650 str. There's an AoE cap of 10, I don't think 3k damage will kill any lvl 40 character. On top of that, if you're hitting yourself for 3000 damage a pop and keep going, you deserve to die.

And it only hits on the initial dot tick, not each individual tick, so don't bring that argument up.

Except things like Napalm Grenade, a 30 second ground-based DoT, process like pulsing direct damage. So one engineer drops napalm and you absolutely will kill him. He can even get rezed and you will just kill him again.

That said, "if you're hitting yourself for 3000 damage a pop and keep going, you deserve to die" doesn't really work. Why is it that AOE BWs/Engies are rendered completely useless by this, whereas Destro is free to AOE in large-scale combat to its heart's content?

Isn't this all pretty much the exact reason that OYG was kneejerk-nerfed?

[Didier]

That's our job. It's what we do. We trade excellent mitigation and damage for it.

Your fault for rolling the wrong class. Mythic shouldn't nerf Chosen simply because the class you rolled isn't meeting your playstyle.

Oh, don't get me wrong, as KotbS i still can utilize much of CC. Although in the meantime KotbS is missing it's own kind of denial.

And so that you know, i also play chosen on Helmgart. But imho the tradeoff in mitigation and damage i easily of no concern depending on build.

To get into the tradeoffs:
Less Damage? You can call yourself now a ranged tank named scatter bomb ;). And yes, you're as nasty as a scatterbomb.
Less Mitigation? Then please explain me why a chosen in Lost Vale gets less damage from the bosses than a BO. Just look in the PvE-Forumsection. And the BO is geared better than the chosen.

Edit:
And mitigation in PvP? The survivability is still very good.

[Rijasy]

That said, "if you're hitting yourself for 3000 damage a pop and keep going, you deserve to die" doesn't really work. Why is it that AOE BWs/Engies are rendered completely useless by this, whereas Destro is free to AOE in large-scale combat to its heart's content?

Isn't this all pretty much the exact reason that OYG was kneejerk-nerfed?

OYG was (over)nerfed because it was stacking in unintended ways, and was also proccing way too often, leading to things like AFK Mob farming.

Less Mitigation? Then please explain me why a chosen in Lost Vale gets less damage from the bosses than a BO. Just look in the PvE-Forumsection. And the BO is geared better than the chosen.

This changed as of patch 1.1.0 where they nerfed Piercing Repel, and changed the way the ward system works. Black Orcs are now considered top dog in terms of PVE tanking.

[Didier]

This changed as of patch 1.1.0 where they nerfed Piercing Repel, and changed the way the ward system works. Black Orcs are now considered top dog in terms of PVE tanking.


Thx for pointing that out ;)

[Devoto1111]

Sigh, with the current witch hunt on chosen i really fear for an already weak chosen population. That piercing repel nerf was never compensated for and my guess is the same will apply when Mythic grant orders wishes in this case as well. A witch hunt thats exactly what it is.

I could be wrong but I highly doubt this is so much of a problem in large scale orvr as engi:s and others makes it out to be. But if it is, i'd like Mythic to implement an order counter that requires some kind of skill to apply, like a purge or something, not just nerfing BS to allow mindless AOE 2 button nukeing that any crap player can do.

[Rijasy]

Sigh, with the current witch hunt on chosen i really fear for an already weak chosen population. That piercing repel nerf was never compensated for and my guess is the same will apply when Mythic grant orders wishes in this case as well. A witch hunt thats exactly what it is.

I could be wrong but I highly doubt this is so much of a problem in large scale orvr as engi:s and others makes it out to be. But if it is, i'd like Mythic to implement an order counter that requires some kind of skill to apply, like a purge or something, not just nerfing BS to allow mindless AOE 2 button nukeing that any crap player can do.

Not only that, but if they have enough time to look at Baneshield + direshielding, I want them to look at the rest of Chosen as a career. They need a lot of fixing.

[Balcor]

But if it is, i'd like Mythic to implement an order counter that requires some kind of skill to apply, like a purge or something, not just nerfing BS to allow mindless AOE 2 button nukeing that any crap player can do.

You mean like Sorcs do without any fear of reflected dmg? All we want is balance.. .either cut this ability down to size or give Order the exact same ability to reflect this kind of dmg. There has to be balance between the realms.

[Rijasy]

I think its becoming apparent that there os no 'simple' or 'easy' fix to achieve any form of desirable balance on both sides.