AOE knockdowns and disables

[Belisarius]

DoK and Marauder both get an aoe knockdown. DoK's rank 2 morale also disables for 5 seconds.
What Order class gets this ability to do aoe damage, knockdown and disable??

[Sauce]

The answer is none.

But we get AoE knockbacks and they are way better!! Right??

[Tryble]

Bright Wizards get the equivalent (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8216) of Universal Confusion.
Warrior Priest has the equivalent (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8254) of DoK's AoE knockback.


What point are you trying to make here?

Maybe you should check the rules (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223355)for this section of the forum.

[Liang]

Bright Wizards get the equivalent (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8216) of Universal Confusion.
Warrior Priest has the equivalent (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8254) of DoK's AoE knockback.


What point are you trying to make here?

Maybe you should check the rules (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223355)for this section of the forum.

I think the point he's trying to make is that knockdowns are better than knockbacks - therefore they are not equivalent. :)

-Liang

[Stingray]

KotBS gets your AOE KD and its 65 range like the Chosens.

Marauder does have on compared to the WL, but the WL and Marauder seem to be the only two direct mirrors that are in no way a mirror. I think the WL (other than fetch) getting the shaft, and KotBS not being in the game are the reasons Order didn't have AOE KDs until the KotBS.

Order KBs are either 10x better or equal than their Des counterparts. And this whole "KBs are useless" or whatever is untrue in so many ways that I think Order players use that line to try to make themselves look so much more Underpowered than Des, Which in reality I think Des and Order are rather equal with some OP here and there on both sides.

[Efertin]

That post and this thread is wrong on so many levels:

1. DoK's don't have an AoE KD.

2. Chosen has 2s AoE kd with 65 ft range, KotBS has a 3s AoE KD with a 65 ft range.

3. Marauders have a 2s kd with 30 ft range, WL's and no order class gets an equal KD, but it's both Chosen and KotBS KD's are better because of bigger range, bigger duration in case of KotBS and they can actually survive AoE unlike Marauders.

4. DoK's got a 5s stun R2 morale and BW's also got a 5s stun R2 morale. DoK's have a slight advantage due to it being PbAoE and DoK's wear medium armor.

5.Order has better single target CC and AoE KB's, Dest has AoE disorients which are extremely overpowered in zerg fights due to them stacking and lag amplifying their effect even more. (2s cast turns into a 10-15s cast). Order has ZERO AoE disorients.

[Kenyan]

Let Order melee dps careers have some abilities along the lines of On Your Knees and Concussive Jolt, or take out aoe stuns and knockdowns altogether.

Destruction is not getting to experience the full melee assist train while unable to do ANYTHING except wait on the respawn button.

Disable dominance garbage needs to be spread around evenly or removed entirely.

[Koe]

Land mine (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=1524) and Self-Destruct (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=1525) for Engineer. Landmine is still buggy, however. Self-Destruct is very situational.

Oh, and Order's only AoE Disorient is broken. Concussive Mine (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=1549) does not work, at all. Ever.

[CorumSM]

5.Order has better single target CC and AoE KB's, Dest has AoE disorients which are extremely overpowered in zerg fights due to them stacking and lag amplifying their effect even more. (2s cast turns into a 10-15s cast). Order has ZERO AoE disorients.

Thats the part of the overall balance that really bugs me tbh.
As you rightly say AoE disorients are very powerful.
Their power is hugely amplified by lag.
They are a great way to inhibit the melee dps of a zerg - and the faction usually doing the actual zerging seems to have them. Weird.

Give KotBS a disorient aura.
Give WL a tactic to add cone disorient to one of their AoE attacks.
Give an Order tank a tactic like Big Brawlin' that does cone disorient.
Remove some of the Order AoE knockbacks to compensate.

Better still just remove all AoE disorients or make disorient not affect instant cast abilities.

[Stingray]

A tone down of KBs/Disorients is needed across the board. The biggest issue with Order Vs Des Knock back is that most Des KBs send you a few feet, and Order KBs (well a lot of them) launch you into orbit.

Anyhow the issue with the CC is often how powerful it is, and how little Immunities last.

Basicly all CC needs a massive tone down or all Immunities needs a massive boost. You shouldn't be disabled for an entire fight like what happens. IMHO this is what should happen with CC:

KBs toned down so they never send you that far... just enough to get some room, but not launch you over fences or from the front line all the way to the rear of your force.

Disorients only affect abilities with cast timers, or Disorients are all single target except maybe one class per side having 1 AOE on a very short timer.

KD balance... aka allow WLs to spec for an AOE one like the Marauders or remove Marauders and make the KotBS one the same time as Chosens. AKA AOE ones have short timers. Make sure immunity works correctly... and if needed increase timer I should not be KDed every 5 seconds.

Fetch removed from the game... give the WL (player not pet) a 2 sec cast 65 ft range pull like the Marauder.

[Yavvy]

The answer is none.

But we get AoE knockbacks and they are way better!! Right??:lol:

So far on my BG I've been saved more than killed by Order knockbacks. Knockdowns, however, are AWESOME and can easily assure the death of <target>.
A tone down of KBs/Disorients is needed across the board. The biggest issue with Order Vs Des Knock back is that most Des KBs send you a few feet, and Order KBs (well a lot of them) launch you into orbit. Ehm, you're just fighting uphill? IBs may have a longer one, KotBS get tactic for extra range, and BG scales with Hate (from shove to orbit), but other than that they're the same afaik.

Other than that, I agree with you - well, maybe not Fetch as I like how it uses the pet. Maybe 80-100 feet instant with pet, but a more durable one. After they buff WLs :rolleyes:

[OPWEE]

Well, maybe not Fetch as I like how it uses the pet. Maybe 80-100 feet instant with pet, but a more durable one. After they buff WLs :rolleyes:

I say we give Mara a pet and fetch instead of TE and they can see how hard fetch actually is to use, a tauntable pet that dies instantly, and an unreliable fetch mechanic... WLs would take TE any day of the week over fetch!

[zerj]

:lol:

So far on my BG I've been saved more than killed by Order knockbacks. Knockdowns, however, are AWESOME and can easily assure the death of <target>.


Yeah a knockback on a tank isn't that useful, but knockdown doesn't usually kill you either. On my WE I can say the Knockback usually means death. What really sucks with the KB is I get send back 200 yards and the entire time I have my CC immunity is spent getting back into range of my target. As soon as I am there I am knocked away again. A KD particularly a 2 second one would be much more survivable, and allow me to continue beating on my opponnent.

I say we give Mara a pet and fetch instead of TE and they can see how hard fetch actually is to use, a tauntable pet that dies instantly, and an unreliable fetch mechanic... WLs would take TE any day of the week over fetch!

Well he did mention making the pet improved at the same time didn't he?