Chosen Vs. SM

[lupa]

as a chosen SM give me headaches. they get too many bubble shields for me to do any considerable damage to them. anyone else experiencing this?

[Ellessidil]

as a chosen SM give me headaches. they get too many bubble shields for me to do any considerable damage to them. anyone else experiencing this?

After the latest change to rune/bubbles/absorb shields, I dont think it would be a problem any more. Removing mitigation before the damage hits the bubble ensures that all of our bubbles last at best 1-2 attacks before they are gone. And we have the following bubbles available:

Phantom's Blade

Protection of Hoeth

Vaul's Buffer


Mind you all but one is under 150pts of absorb, which means a single attack that lands will remove the bubble, where as before mitigation played a factor in the equation which meant that yes if we had high enough mitigation our bubbles could last 3+ attacks each depending on the attacker and their stats/weapons/attacks.

Has this problem been recently, or just in the past?

[PinkysBrain]

Take what you have in AoE debuff/disable/disorient potential and group/ally buffs/reflection and compare it to the SM ... in the context of a group you are the most effective tank in the game, in the context of a group the the SM is one of the weaker (probably the weakest after the shield nerf). If you, the tank with the lowest individual damage output (which is completely justified) could significantly hurt the SM what point would there for him to even be playing?

[Arrelaine]

Take what you have in AoE debuff/disable/disorient potential and group/ally buffs/reflection and compare it to the SM ... in the context of a group you are the most effective tank in the game, in the context of a group the the SM is one of the weaker (probably the weakest after the shield nerf). If you, the tank with the lowest individual damage output (which is completely justified) could significantly hurt the SM what point would there for him to even be playing?


No, sorry, but the KotBS is better than a Chosen, by far.

[PinkysBrain]

Sticking to multitarget abilities the differences between the KotBS and the Chosen come down to the crit buff and healing buff vs. DS, DF, TR and the only real non immunity granting CC left in the game.

[Ashonic]

Hahaha, please exaime the KotBS closer next time before you say that.


Also, if you think we have better AoE's check this out

8038

8026

pay attention to that last one. that deals damage and removes 1200 HP.

what do you mean the only non-immunity CC?


also, please change your sig. its wrong.
how about asking this in your sig : "Would Chosen swap their skills for the KotBS skills, and would the KotBS swap theirs for the Chosen?"

[lupa]

After the latest change to rune/bubbles/absorb shields, I dont think it would be a problem any more. Removing mitigation before the damage hits the bubble ensures that all of our bubbles last at best 1-2 attacks before they are gone. And we have the following bubbles available:

Phantom's Blade (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=9020)
Protection of Hoeth (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=9029)
Vaul's Buffer (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=9069)

Mind you all but one is under 150pts of absorb, which means a single attack that lands will remove the bubble, where as before mitigation played a factor in the equation which meant that yes if we had high enough mitigation our bubbles could last 3+ attacks each depending on the attacker and their stats/weapons/attacks.

Has this problem been recently, or just in the past?

Thank you for real input. I am aware of these shields, as they are my main problem with hurting SM, seems that I'll just have deal with the fact that my only real means of doing significant damage to a SM is going to be Bane shield, which sucks because that means i'm taking damage as well.

and to pinkysbrain; what CC is that and I no, I don't think SM vs Chosen 1v1 should be the blow out it typically is.

[firecow]

Thank you for real input. I am aware of these shields, as they are my main problem with hurting SM, seems that I'll just have deal with the fact that my only real means of doing significant damage to a SM is going to be Bane shield, which sucks because that means i'm taking damage as well.

and to pinkysbrain; what CC is that and I no, I don't think SM vs Chosen 1v1 should be the blow out it typically is.

baneshield is a good way to deal with us. It hits my SM harder than I will hit a chosen. Could you win purely on it? Not sure. I doubt it. But I've 1 vs 1 other Chosen and the most effective ones CC me and hit me while I'm CCed. That's typically the only time our bubbles aren't up. I had a fight where the s/s chosen took me down to 40% HP using that method.

[PinkysBrain]

and to pinkysbrain; what CC is that
Corrupting Horror, sure 0.5 seconds isn't a lot ... but it's always on and has excellent synergy with marauders ... and 1.5 seconds is a lot.

[KatzenKratzen]

arcing swing (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8026)
pay attention to that last one. that deals damage and removes 1200 HP.

Pay attention that it requires a great weapon thus limiting KotBS's surviveability pretty much. Never seen any serious Knight in T4 ORvR with a 2-hander.

I don't get this mantra - why is KotBS better than Chosen? Chosen always want to swap some abilities with them, take something from them but I don't understand what.

OT: I don't think there is a way for Chosen to defeat one of the best 1v1 classes in the game. Trying to do some damage? Maybe.

[Rijasy]

I don't get this mantra - why is KotBS better than Chosen? Chosen always want to swap some abilities with them, take something from them but I don't understand what.


Knights can generally tank better in both RVR and PVE, having more practical 'anytime' skills (Vigilance (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8034), Perseverance (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8016), Shield Rush (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8011), Runefang (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8043), Coordination (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8056), etc.) while having tactics that synergize well, while mostly bringing more group utility (Focused Mending (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8060), Dirty Tricks (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8057), Encouraged Aim (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8054), etc.) than chosen tactics. Their AoE capabilities aren't much worse off either, like stated above (Heaven's Fury (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8038), Arcing Swing (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8026)). They also have a rank 2 morale that is an unbreakable AoE Root.

The advantages that Chosen hold over the Kotbs are single target burst dps (Touch of Palsy (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8338), Tooth of Tzeentch (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8317), Downfall (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8346)) , as well as a few anti-magic skills (Tzeentch's Reflection (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8350), Corrupting Horror (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8345), Bane Shield (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8337), Siphoned Energy (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8367)).

Also, the knight has a few abilities that counter AP problems, like Perseverance (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8016), Stay Focused! (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8020), Well-Trained (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8046), and Efficient Swings (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8053). The chosen have fewer options available to them, most of which aren't nearly as practical (Feed on the Weary (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8361), Hastened Dismissal (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8366) and Chaotic Advantage (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8352)).

When you compare the two, its clear that the knight can tank better, and has better AP management skills and has more skills that directly help allies. The chosen has better burst dps and single target dps. Both have good AoE capabilities.

And since Chosen and Knights are both slotted into the 'support/utility tank' role, isn't it more important to have better tanking, and group support options than single target dps options?

Edit: Also, Chosen are the only tank class that don't have any options to increase block %, or cut through armor without having to resort to magical means.

[zato1]

i like using shatter enchantment

it makes the chosens cry

their only strength over us is mitigated by a simple attack.. that actually deals significant damage, too. :)

you just werent meant to beat everyone..