Fix we/wh [Archive] - Warhammer Forums

Teviko

01-07-2009, 10:24 PM

Please.

Whatever you do, get on this immediately. I know I don't speak for myself when I say this, but:

FIX OUR STEALTH!!

although today I saw WH's actually able to stealth in the keep Lord's room without getting aggro'ed, the sad thing is, on the battlefield, our stealth drops for no reason what-so-ever. Just, whoops, I cast it, and whoops, its gone.

Now, I know someone, potentially out there possibly could have seen me, but I have an init of well over 200, I'm level 18, and getting spotted by levle 11 White Lions, and level 13 engs. Now, I'd be fine with this, except even with full INF gear from T1 and some pieces from T2, they still wouldn't be able to break 150 Init and spot me, in anyway shape or form. SO although it happened to dropon me around these two particular individuals, I'm led to believe that it just randomly dropped and they pounced me afore it even registered on my screen.

So, please, please fix stealth.

Darkpheonix

01-07-2009, 11:09 PM

Init increases your stealth detection not improve your stealth I believe.

Ascent

01-07-2009, 11:37 PM

I have an init of well over 200, I'm level 18, and getting spotted by levle 11 White Lions, and level 13 engs. Now, I'd be fine with this, except even with full INF gear from T1 and some pieces from T2, they still wouldn't be able to break 150 Init and spot me, in anyway shape or form.L2recognize the bolster buff.

My level 12 Squig Herder breaks 200 Initiative.

Of course, this only comes from focusing heavily on Initiative, and my Initiative is very likely to scale inversely to my level, ie at 20, that Squig Herder will have less Initiative than it has currently as Initiative stacking isn't nearly as possible with the T2 influence rewards.

Init increases your stealth detection not improve your stealth I believe.It does both. It's also the only stat I know of which checks against itself.

Arrelaine

01-09-2009, 01:14 PM

I never knew it increased it too. These things should be on the little tooltip. I wonder what other stats are like that, with a hidden perk.

Kyrons

01-09-2009, 01:19 PM

Rimarlk

01-09-2009, 06:11 PM

It's because of AOE damage, dots, and Chosen/KoTBS auras. Really annoying. I hate declare anathema'ing away, stealthing, then have a chosen come up and break stealth.

To all WH's. Stay away from SH's while stealthed unless you plan to attack them. They seem to stack initiative like crazy and I always get popped by one if I stay within 50ft of their LOS too long.

Mystry

01-09-2009, 08:05 PM

Teviko

01-09-2009, 10:28 PM

I find myself extremely unsympathetic because of the devs demonstrating so much preferrence for WE over WH. You have to stack 1 stat. We have to stack 2. All your gear has more stats than ours. Your abilities break far less often than ours. ect ect.

Well, seeing as I said, fix *our* stealth, meaning both WEs and WH's, you, sir, can cool your butt down.

I played a WH too, and frankly, felt more powerful on her than on my WE. You, you may be hated, but not nearly as much as Order hates to even see a scenario score board with WE on it. The moment my pretty little elf butt gets spotted, I have every SW/ENG/BW FF me down.

You don't get the same treatment as a WH. So, WH= more survivability.

And I do sympathize with the stat splitting, BUT THATS NOT WHAT THIS THREAD WAS ABOUT.

If you want your stealth to remain buggy as it is, go lobby for it in your own section of teh forums. I'd like to see us (meaning WE's and WH's) able to move more than 2 feet without it dropping randomly for no reason.

Again, as I said, I've played a WH, two in fact, and personally like them more than my WE. They are more stylish and I happened to like a sword and gun duo. And again, as I stated, I sympathize with the stat splitting.

Arkai

01-09-2009, 11:16 PM

I find myself extremely unsympathetic because of the devs demonstrating so much preferrence for WE over WH. You have to stack 1 stat. We have to stack 2. All your gear has more stats than ours.

If devs changed it and you only had to stack 1 stat do you think they wouldnt have to rebalance things so that you still do approximately the same damage as now? Why waste time on all that number crunching?

Your abilities break far less often than ours. ect ect.Yet to see a post proving that.

I'd agree with the OP. Stealth is VERY unreliable.

Darkpheonix

01-09-2009, 11:25 PM

No they would since at its base a witch hunter has the same survivability of a WE with less damage.

The only thing though is that like Teviko said WE have made themselves their own worst enemy. Even the worst pug that couldn't possibly focus fire to save their lives will 100% garuntee perfectly focus fire any and all WE that show their face. This though is more the current state of what they are capable of and what order has realized is the biggest threat.

Arrelaine

01-09-2009, 11:52 PM

I have noticed on my WE, that stealth is unreliable, but I haven't played her in so long. I just started a WH, and haven't had any problems yet since getting it (even liking the class better than my WE). Oh, and I do gut every WE I see, it's just fun. Well, after I get the healers.

It's every time right, not just RVR or PVE?

the Doctor

01-10-2009, 01:18 AM

I think Most people are missing the fact that it does seem to drop randomly w/o an attack. It'd be one thing if I stealth come around the corner and face a barrage of arrows or what ever pointing me out. It's another when I stealth come around the corner with 20 seconds left on the stealth no one has spotted me and it just drops.

I've noticed this as well. I'll be standing on my WE still in stealth and the only time I will get attacked is from Aoes, which do NOT break stealth but all of a sudden ill be dotted up by a BW because for some reason I'm out of stealth. :mad:.Then it takes them about.... 4 seconds to kill me?

Marsares

01-10-2009, 08:37 AM

Teviko

01-10-2009, 09:06 AM

You do realise that people with high Initiative, plus pets especially, can detect stealthed players. So your stealth in most instances wouldn't break for no reason, you've just been detected. Smile, you're on Candid Camera! ;)

Oh, trust me, it drops randomly for no reason too.

Go back and read the initial post. I clearly point out that I stack Init on my WE just so I won't get spotted by Order players and get spotted by a level 11 WL? Init stacking or not, my Init should have been higher than his and therefore, unseen by him.

If it was bolster, then Bolster needs to be looked at. At level 18, I have ALOT of init, just for stealth, and I doubt this guy had purple gear on that had nothing but init.

But, regardless, it does just randomly drop.

athropos

01-10-2009, 09:39 AM

It does both. It's also the only stat I know of which checks against itself.

Where are you getting this data? Everything else I have seen or heard says that INI only affects stealth detection, not your own ability to stay stealthed.

I'm also curious to see how this was tested.

Teviko

01-10-2009, 09:42 AM

Where are you getting this data? Everything else I have seen or heard says that INI only affects stealth detection, not your own ability to stay stealthed.

I'm also curious to see how this was tested.

Because it also reduces your chances of being critically hit, I believe, so in that, it has to check against the other person's INIT. It's why it does this, I believe. BUt Ascent is right, it does check against itself.

athropos

01-10-2009, 09:49 AM

Because it also reduces your chances of being critically hit, I believe, so in that, it has to check against the other person's INIT. It's why it does this, I believe. BUt Ascent is right, it does check against itself.

Except the crit formulas only involve INI on one side of it (yours). The stealth detection formulas only involve one side of it (theirs). At no time is it "checking against itself". It is used for multiple, completely unrelated, parts of the game.

Kyrons

01-10-2009, 06:08 PM

You do realise that people with high Initiative, plus pets especially, can detect stealthed players. So your stealth in most instances wouldn't break for no reason, you've just been detected. Smile, you're on Candid Camera! ;)

Thats why I pointed out it'd be one thing if we come around a corner or something stealthed and face a barage of missles or other attacks pointing us out (because that individual had a high inititive.) But that's not what we're talking about.

On the other hand I've noticed a few times where I get attacked and dosn't drop :o But those were in PvE

That being said, I have noticed the random drops far far less while soloing in PvE. Anyone else noticed a trend like that? It might help pinpoint the cause. I don't really do a whole lot of PvE though usually just to push me over the to get rank when I'm renown caped for a rank.

EDIT: as a side question how much initiative do you need to spot someone? I've tried initiative builds and cant seem to get it high enough.

Arrelaine

01-10-2009, 06:39 PM

I don't think pets should be able to spot me from stealth either. That really sucks when you're trying to get the back lines and some SH has their squig there. :(

NightShade

01-11-2009, 12:41 AM

You do realise that people with high Initiative, plus pets especially, can detect stealthed players. So your stealth in most instances wouldn't break for no reason, you've just been detected. Smile, you're on Candid Camera! ;)

Actually, high initiative isn't needed, from what I can tell average initiative enables fairly decent stealth detection.

Second, stealth -does- break for no reason, this is pretty well documented throughout the stealth careers' community. There's occasions where I wasn't in combat, near combat, or anything of the like and stealth will immediately be broken right after the 'cast time' completes.

Other examples include stealth breaking from DoT or AoE damage, which it isn't supposed to do.

Blundertoph Obslist

01-11-2009, 11:00 AM

Be thankful that you actually -have- stealth.

NightShade

01-11-2009, 12:07 PM

Be thankful that you actually -have- stealth.

That's like telling someone, "Be thankful you actually have a broken TV, nevermind the fact that it doesn't work..."

Kyrons

01-12-2009, 02:16 PM

That's like telling someone, "Be thankful you actually have a broken TV, nevermind the fact that it doesn't work..."

I wouldn't go so far to say "Broken" I'd say it's more like getting handed a one of those underpowered netbooks for PC gaming. Technically you can say it "works." But if your the one that needs to use it your mumbling and cursing the guy that gave it too ya even though you know he meant well, it kinda works but it's just not cuttin it.

Farshatok

01-12-2009, 02:23 PM

Be thankful that you actually -have- stealth.

If we didn't have stealth, they'd give us other buffs to make up for it. Buffs that you can actually depend on, that fully work... Actually they'd probably be broken too, so I'm thankful :)

Evil Lite

01-12-2009, 02:27 PM

That's like telling someone, "Be thankful you actually have a broken TV, nevermind the fact that it doesn't work..."

I agree stealth is broken and needs to be fixed. I have lost track of the number of times on my RP I have seen a WE who is currently not in stealth (which I promptly DoT with an insta cast, not resisted) enter stealth and then a few seconds later start beating on me.

This is broken and needs to be fixed! Along with whatever else is broken with stealth of course. :p

Teviko

01-12-2009, 08:04 PM

I agree stealth is broken and needs to be fixed. I have lost track of the number of times on my RP I have seen a WE who is currently not in stealth (which I promptly DoT with an insta cast, not resisted) enter stealth and then a few seconds later start beating on me.

This is broken and needs to be fixed! Along with whatever else is broken with stealth of course. :p

Dots and damage are not supposed to break stealth.

Being spotted does. But, I have no equation for this.

On my levle 24 AM, I stacked the heck out of resists and Init/tough/wounds.

In Mourkain, I could see a level 21 WE but I couldn't see the level 14 one. The level 14 one got more kills on me than the level 21 did. I was very disappointed (and no, she's level 24 *now*, not when I played Mourkain Temple).

So, I have no idea what determines how you can *spot* stealth or not. I thought it was init checks, but I dunno anymore. *shrug* but, it has been proven to be unreliable and broke.

Please fix.

Ayamo

01-13-2009, 03:21 AM

Agree with the OP

Getting shot out of shadow prowler by 8 lvl lower people is getting frustrating.

Kyrons

01-13-2009, 08:59 AM

Dots and damage are not supposed to break stealth.

Being spotted does. But, I have no equation for this.

On my levle 24 AM, I stacked the heck out of resists and Init/tough/wounds.

In Mourkain, I could see a level 21 WE but I couldn't see the level 14 one. The level 14 one got more kills on me than the level 21 did. I was very disappointed (and no, she's level 24 *now*, not when I played Mourkain Temple).

So, I have no idea what determines how you can *spot* stealth or not. I thought it was init checks, but I dunno anymore. *shrug* but, it has been proven to be unreliable and broke.

Please fix.

The ONLY times I have been able to see a stealthed character is when I had a large Rank "Bolster." I have yet to make a 'build' that can detect them though. How much inititive is needed? I've had inititive builds with over 450 but couldn't detect stealthed characters.

Zephris-WHA

01-13-2009, 09:49 AM

-Details, with supporting evidence
-Constructive criticism with possible ways to fix the perceived problem
-Generally rational tone

All of the above must be in a thread that is in this forum, especially at the start of the thread.
If your just calling for a bug to be fixed then it really should go elsewhere as it is not related to balance.