Class Appearance/Fun Balance.

[zerj]

Ok so too much talk of nerfing all around. Personally I think most of the balance problems are a population balance not a specific class balance. This is more of a marketing problem. In that light I'll give my matchups based on looks.


1) IB < BO. Dwarfs are cool but I like the big giant orc better. Besides its somewhat annoying to be stuck looking at the world from the dwarf perspective. The camera never feels quite right (same with my shaman).
2) engineer > Magus - That disk gets old after about 3 levels, besides guns are cool.
3) Rune Priest < Zealot - The RP seems kinda generic but the Zealot has that cool bird theme going on.
4) Witch Hunter > Witch Elf - Sure the WE is the most desirable character but that has been done in every RPG. That is a pretty cool hat and again he has a gun.
5) KoBS < Chosen - Come on Feathers in his hat? I think the KoBS certainly was watching way to much Queer Eye before he decided to get dressed this morning.
6) WP > DOK - This one seems pretty close. I'd say I'm leaning towards WP as all the DEs have the emo thing going on and look pretty similar.
7) BW > Sorc - Orange Hair and full sleeves are the winner here. Besides my Sorc seems to have even more 'back' than Sir Mixalot would approve of.
8 ) SM < BG - Tanks just don't work for me in skirts. Too formless. That said I like the BG slightly better due to the polearm.
9) SW < SH - I find the short stature annoying to play with but a goblin looks cooler than generic elf.
10) WL < Maruader - I like the surprise factor, you never know what arm your gonna get. It was somewhat annoying not to have pants for 15 levels but still beats generic elf.
11) AM < Shaman - Another Elf in a skirt, vs a gobbo wearing a hat made from a pig.


So in my opinion destruction is favored by a score of 7 to 4. I'm absolutely in favor of giving Order some buffs in this area.

[Rijasy]

While I agree that Destruction seem more attractive, but that is my opinion.

Really, its mostly beauty in the eye of the beholder. Some people prefer order, some prefer destruction.

Over-advertising, and more graphic polish gives destruction careers a better chance at being appealing to players.

For example, lets say I opted to play a dwarf Ironbreaker. I would probably be asking things like "I love dwarves, but why isn't my armor as ornate as a Chosens armor? or a Knight's armor? Or Blackguard? I agree we have some cool looking armor sets, but why can't more of them look attractive, like most Chosen sets?"

When I'm on my chosen, I can appreciate other 'detailed' looking armor (like top tier Black Guard armor with spikes and gold trim, or a Black Orc's sheer ferocity and size), but I think to myself. I should see more dwarves/humans/elves running around with crazy-looking stuff. Let the dwarves where those large wingy helmets. Let them carry around more ornate shields and axes/hammers. Why not let the Knights have more closed helms? More feathers? (well, they already have plenty) What about that concept art with the knight wearing gold armor, and a full helm with a gold gryphon sitting atop (If I was at home, I'd pull a link for it)? I somehow imagined that to be their sentinel's, but apparently it isn't.

Unless I'm missing something from lore, theres no reason why one classes' armor can't be as detailed as another (and yes, I realize there are things like time constraints, developers resources, etc).

That said, I agree that the aesthetics for most of the order classes could use some more polish, and ultimately, more appeal. Maybe move all tiers down one, and replace the top tier sets with even cooler looking stuff? ( A lot of work, but I can still dream :P)

Long story short:
Moar detail on order armor plz. (through textures, models, etc.)

Anyways, sorry for the semi-rant.

[TzuDevil]

Great thread!

I think the looks of the Chosen are the best in the game. They are just so damn bad .

As for the worst? I am going to go with the Archmage. My skirt changed colors a few times from T1 to T4.

Cheers!

[frogs99]

I have a male sorc.

I'd actually pay mythic a little extra money if they could make him look and move a little more manly and less..well.. you know...

Right now his looks and annimations make me think I should rename him to either Liberachi, RuPaul, or TransSorcual and try to find a pink, sequined robe for him to wear.

[Crouton]

Summary:
Best looking to worst looking is Greenskins > Humans > Dorfs > Elves

[Acyd]

Hell i love my WH, couldnt ask for much more. Cept my sent shoulders, which wont drop.

Side shot of me.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m234/Acyd_Arrow/Acyd_002.jpg

[spriteboy]

I love the background/theme of Chaos, I used to collect and play with those armies in the tabletop game and I love heavy armour. My class was already decided for me before I knew anything about the classes.

Ask anyone in my guild, I object to wearing some armour items because they look crap, I make sure my armour is colour coordinated and I also carry around a 2 handed weapon so I can pose and look intimidating :cool:

[Qualum]

Someone posted a couple snippets of the developers state of mind during game creation. Essentially, they expected Order to naturally draw in more people. So the intricacy imbalance was somewhat purposeful. It seems like they went a bit overboard, however. :)

I think had KOTBS been out when the game went live there would be slightly more balance to the numbers. This is based on my opinion that Chosen are one of the most awesome looking tanks, of a race very human-like (that people are drawn to). The KOTBS would have taken some of those people (though the silly feathers do hurt). Because of their looks, Chosen, despite being arguably the gimpest tank, and maybe even gimpest class pre 1.1, were one of the most popular classes.

That being said, do I really want the developers to work on armor graphics? No, not while large scale rvr still causes a ton of lag, while cast bar responsiveness is unbearable (at best), and where there are a lot of balancing issues that need attending to. Though, if they still have a separate team (I doubt it, but then Slayer and Hammerer still need to be brought in) workin on graphic issues like this, have them at it.

[zerj]

That being said, do I really want the developers to work on armor graphics? No, not while large scale rvr still causes a ton of lag, while cast bar responsiveness is unbearable (at best), and where there are a lot of balancing issues that need attending to. Though, if they still have a separate team (I doubt it, but then Slayer and Hammerer still need to be brought in) workin on graphic issues like this, have them at it.

I would tend to believe that the 'art' people and the code developers are completely separate. Drawing Swords and the like is a completely different skillset than changing networking code. My thoughts are that the balancing issues are 95% population balancing and only 5% changing the classes to be balanced. Order is gonna get the shaft until they have enough bodies. I have not seen order having any issues in scenarios, open RvR is much more problematic.

[Efertin]

Mythic didn't bother at all with the High Elven art, just look at White Lions, Archmages and the horrible clipping issues SW's have. SM art is quite decent if you compare it to the lore, but they could look a bit more... intimidating? White Lions and AM's are a bad joke. White Lions don't look like the lore WL's do, like, at all, and most of the WL community thinks that they look horrible, and Archmages look the same from T2 to T4.

Empire and Dark Elf art was incredibly well done, and right now, almost half of the players are playing either Dark Elf or Empire. Chaos classes also look nice, Greenskins and Dwarfs look decent at most.

If Mythic had bothered with the HE art and added the KotBS instead of say, SM, at the release, the game would be a lot more balanced population wise. Order might even outnumber Destruction. But what's done is done. Now Mythic has to encourage both new players and current Destruction to roll Order, which is easier said than done.

I agree with the OP other than that I think female sorcs look a lot better than BW's to the public, and that SW's on the character creation screen look extremely cool compared to the SH.

And I fear that Hammerer vs Choppa will just make even more new players roll Destruction. I mean, a big, bad Orc Berserker versus a... dwarf with two hammers? Dwarfs have never been a popular race in MMO's.

[Rijasy]

Hell i love my WH, couldnt ask for much more. Cept my sent shoulders, which wont drop.

Side shot of me.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m234/Acyd_Arrow/Acyd_002.jpg


Yes, it looks very nice. But wouldn't you want to look more like this:
http://www.war-rvr.net/index.php?option=com_ponygallery&func=watermark&id=2515&Itemid=160

I know I would. But thats just me. ;)

[RealBigKitty]

I agree the art can make a HUGE difference in preference. I cannot stand ANY of the male elves (high or dark), so any DE toons are female for me. The Orcs only really look good in full armour, and the goblins ALWAYS have some version of a pighead or some skull. Which is great, unless you don't care for it then two whole classes will be unappealing.

And the Greenies basically live in garbage dumps and middens. Goblins are my favoured race, but this gets old after a while.

Our Guild has always discussed this. In WoW it was believed that Alliance usually seemed to outweigh Horde because players (especially younger ones) identify with the pretty, shiny characters. I mean, come on, how many elven archers can steal their name from LoTR??? Here, they just made High Elves too damn ugly, and the dwarves seem to just blend in. If people didn't cringe or "meh" at creation, they might be more highly represented. I know I won't play/make an ugly toon...

As for marketing, I think the Destro favour was because of this. I mean, unless someone wants to play the villain, orcs, goblins, mutants, are almost always evil and bad and true heroes eradicate them, not emulate.

And incidentally for the OP, if "Queer Eye" had gotten hold of the Knights, they wouldn't have feathers. They just wouldn't go out and fight until their shoulder armour matched their boots.

[Acyd]

Yes, it looks very nice. But wouldn't you want to look more like this:
http://www.war-rvr.net/index.php?option=com_ponygallery&func=watermark&id=2515&Itemid=160

I know I would. But thats just me. ;)

I believe thats the warlord or inquisitor set. I forgot about them. Yes they do look awesome.

"Suffer not a heretic to live"

[Rijasy]

I believe thats the warlord or inquisitor set. I forgot about them. Yes they do look awesome.

"Suffer not a heretic to live"

I thought as much. But what I was suggesting earlier, that had they the time and resources, they could have made THAT set your sentinels, and come up with something even better for warlords. (My artistic instincts are spilling out concepts in my brain, lol)

But again, beauty in the eye of the beholder.

I'm just picky I guess. :P

You could say that I have been 'spoiled' by chosen armor. lol

[Torgull]

5) KoBS < Chosen - Come on Feathers in his hat? I think the KoBS certainly was watching way to much Queer Eye before he decided to get dressed this morning.
.
Good list. However I disagree here.

KoTBS are clearly patterned on the Landsknecht of Switzerland and the late Holy Roman Empire and are totally badass looking if you know anything about their history. In short, they were the most outlandish, hardcore, greatsword-toting mercs of their time and they wore all kinds of garish dress as a way to set themselves apart and flaunt their plundered wealth.

The shortswords they carried as secondary weapons were called Katzbalgers.. which translates as 'cat gutters'. How cool is that?

You just have to know a little bit about history to appreciate their coolness. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landsknecht
http://www.landsknecht.com/html/body_history.html

[roadrage]

Good list. However I disagree here.

KoTBS are clearly patterned on the Landsknecht of Switzerland and the late Holy Roman Empire and are totally badass looking if you know anything about their history. In short, they were the most outlandish, hardcore, greatsword-toting mercs of their time and they wore all kinds of garish dress as a way to set themselves apart and flaunt their plundered wealth.

The shortswords they carried as secondary weapons were called Katzbalgers.. which translates as 'cat gutters'. How cool is that?

You just have to know a little bit about history to appreciate their coolness. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landsknecht
http://www.landsknecht.com/html/body_history.html

they look terrible . and you could tell me the history of them being based on whatever u want . but they look lame

[Torgull]

they look terrible . and you could tell me the history of them being based on whatever u want . but they look lame
to you. :)

[Deeva]

You know, when I put my Archmage in her Devastator set...she actually looks really, really nice. Less 'bath' in my robe, if you know what I mean. More imposing. More threatening. Someone who isn't going to put up with you trying to gank her.

(Not that I can do anything ultimately, but eh.)

As for Witchhunters, while we don't have an amazing DPS ability like the Witch Elves, we have the badass hat tax to compensate for it. Did I mention guns > smooches, too?

With WPs, they look like peasants wearing fur coats in T1, but as soon as you hit T3 and T4, they start looking threatening again.